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Infographic - Are Guns And Ammo The New Gold?

Tyler Durden's picture


There are those who contend that when fiat dies, gold and precious metals will take its place. Then, a smaller subset out there, claims that it matters not who owns the gold or silver. All that matters is who is in charge of the lead. The following inforgraphic from may shed some much needed light on the topic, which as recent Thanksgiving record sales indicated, more and more people are starting to lock in on (and load).

Is Ammo The New Gold? Full Infographic


The threat of a U.S. double dip recession coupled with this summer's debt debacle in Washington - and the subsequent failure of the so-called "debt supercommittee" - has many ordinary Americans looking at gold as a safe store of value.  However, there's another commodity that historically has risen in price along with gold - and is potentially more useful in the event of a global crisis: Ammunition.


Some of the fear-based psychological reasons for gold's popularity in times of economic crisis appear to be similar to the reasons cited for purchasing guns and ammunition.  Michael Thompson, a small business owner from Virginia, had this to say about why he recently purchased 2,000 rounds of 223 ammunition to go with his growing collection of AR-15 assault rifles: "Since ARs are so well-known & widespread, quality ones don't really go down in value.  I don't trust what's going on in Washington and a reliable firearm that'll hold it's value plus ammo that I can always re-sell later if I don't use it up seems like as safe a place as any to put my money in these uncertain times."


One prominent factor which customers at cite as one of their primary reasons for stocking up on guns & ammo now is the uncertainty surrounding U.S. firearm regulations.  Many wonder if President Obama's official position on firearm regulation will change if he wins a second term. Others point to recent actions taken by President Obama's appointees in the EPA and the Department of Justice, citing the EPA's recently proposed ban on lead ammunition due to health concerns about the lead seeping into ground water supplies and the on-going debacle surrounding the Deparment of Justice's failed Fast & Furious sting operation.  Several states have also enacted anti-gun legislation recently, such as California expanding their controversial gun registry to now include purchasers of new rifles and shotguns.


Dustin Ramsey, a 28 year old self-proclaimed "realist" from Tennessee who says hunting and fishing are two of his favorite outdoor activities, counts the 5,000 rounds of 9mm ammunition he keeps on-hand as one of his investments along with gold coins: "I'm a hunter so I know I can use my guns & ammo to feed my family if something happens to our usual food supply and there's a run at our grocery store. Plus, it seems like somebody on Wall Street is always getting bailed out nowadays and my faith in the stock market has been gone for a long time. Look, I've seen what happens when times get tough and I figure I can always barter a popular caliber like 9mm for other supplies like I would with gold if push comes to shove. And if a crisis never materializes where I need my stash of ammo, I still love to shoot so those bullets won't go to waste. Given the uncertainty in our world, ammunition seems more practical to me than gold, whether there's an economic crisis or not."


Whatever their reason, Americans are purchasing firearms and ammunition in record numbers.  USA Today recently reported that the FBI experienced on Black Friday their single largest number of background check requests ever in a single day, smashing the previous record by 32%.  Background check requests are processed by the FBI according to federal law.  Gallop also reported that gun ownership is at an 18 year high, with 47% of Americans admitting to Gallop they own a gun.  These statistics coupled with customer feedback at indicate more Americans are taking advantage of their constitutional right to own a firearm - and are arming up in increasing large numbers.


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Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:28 | 2004346 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

i think all of you guys should buy as  much  of it as you can.........guns and ammo and keep buying no matter what, while you can. thst is just my opinion.   right now, it is plentiful.  maybe one day soon , no so much......


just be sure to stay away from dpms,  bushmaster,   remington, h&r and marlin.  the bastards sold out to cerberus, aka, the freedom group........freedom group?  man doesn't that induce nice warm fuzzy feelings? 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:43 | 2004399 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Hey, the original Bushmaster owner is re-opening his business in the same factory. New Bushies by springtime!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:55 | 2004462 James
James's picture

HPD, The name Cerberus is very fitting for these people.

Cerberus is a multi-headed dog guarding the gates of the underworld. (Greek mythology)

Did'nt these people (?) own Chrysler at one time?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:14 | 2004581 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

yep...........they were in gm too.   i think it is a israeli front company......


my feelings on it. are they are going to try and mess up the gun companies in the united states thereby creating supply problems. the customer service at these companies has fallen off a cliff since they were bought out too. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:25 | 2005358 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

George Soros is a stockholder of Cerberus.  What's wrong with that picture?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:53 | 2004760 aerojet
aerojet's picture

They sold out because each was going out of business.  I don't know who is getting all those NICS checks or why, but the gun manufacturing biz has not been doing that well. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:30 | 2004348 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



Pb = Precious Mettle?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:42 | 2004391 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Clearly a product of public education.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:51 | 2004447 Spigot
Spigot's picture

I thought that was a good word play.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:58 | 2004491 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

I get it now...Good wordplay.

Game on!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:37 | 2004682 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



+1 for admitting the intellectual face plant.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:32 | 2004351 mainuh1
mainuh1's picture

Guns, gold, silver and ammo, what more is there? CONsumer CONfidence?  BWA-HAHAHAHAHA!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:33 | 2004352 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Million Dollar Bonus Mode: ie ASS MODE


You post such trash and the website loses credibility. Most sensible United States citizens do not stock up on guns and ammo and trust their government and local police to protect them. This right wing gun nut shit will alienate more sensible readers away from this website.

You would think that the rough spot the economy is experiencing is like a disaster or something. Nothing so far fetched is going to happen. Don't feed the hysteria by discussing such topics. Don't be part of the problem.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:35 | 2004360 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Oh 'the gubment and police will protect you'....riiiiight well good luck with all that.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:26 | 2004641 Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

"When seconds count, and the police are minutes away..."

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:36 | 2004365 Mad Marv
Mad Marv's picture

I don't know where you are, but I bet it's dark and smells bad.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:39 | 2004381 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

all right call for that kind of dark humor......

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:36 | 2004366 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

you're getting junked haha

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:38 | 2004376 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

i am betting 20,000 reads and 500 comments.........

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:45 | 2004409 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

And the (defacto) Queen of ZH (where is Marla?) is going to have 100 junks.  Haha

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:05 | 2004527 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Lizzy is Queen. I am but a mere serf. You are way too sweet.

You sir, know fully what I did. Your friends know ya, eh? I kinda feel bad, but I thought the whole ASS MODE and Million Dollar Bonus reference would make it clear...LMAO. Didn't mean to punk anyone.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:36 | 2004977 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

Even I got that one.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:01 | 2005081 pakled
pakled's picture

U gave fair warning...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 19:13 | 2005714 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

lol, okay, I'll admit to going "say wha'?" whilst reading that post - given your history of commentary - but by the end figured you'd merely (Mschievously) left off the "sarc" tag. . .

gave you a +1, but hey, if you're looking for triple-digit down marks for braggin' rights, I could always reconsider, *grin*


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 20:57 | 2005979 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

did the same thing

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:39 | 2004693 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Just a thought, if you took a weapon and fired one round every second, it would take 32 thousand year's to fire a Trillion shot's.

Reality has to set in at some point imo. 


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 20:48 | 2005957 fuu
fuu's picture

Good call. 700+ and 24k.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:38 | 2004984 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Its the 'shoot first' crowd.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:44 | 2004402 STP
STP's picture

You must not have lived in Los Angeles during the Rodney King riots.  Those who trusted the gov't and police to take care of them were surprised when they faded away for days, while the city burned, looters broke into thousands of businesses and chaos erupted.

You're new here, or you'd have been enlightened by now, about your so called 'rough spot' in the economy.  This is not a 'rough spot' or a little pot hole, it is a sink hole, big enough to swallow whole governments, banks and other entities.

Nobody is hysterical here, except you.  And remember, it was right wing gun nuts, who created this country in the first place.  It will be left wing anti-gun fascists who will take away your freedom a little bit at a time, until you are powerless.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:48 | 2004741 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Same in Baltimore.  They robbed and burned everything.  Not a Police person to be found.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:56 | 2004788 aerojet
aerojet's picture

How many folks did you end up having to kill?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:56 | 2005052 STP
STP's picture

Nodoby yet...  In Los Angeles, the low lifes pretty much burned down their own neighborhoods and all the businesses that somewhat supported them (mostly liquor stores).  It has taken over a decade, just to get now supermarkets to open in those areas.

I remember Queen Lateefa saying 'next time it will be the white neighborhoods', but you won't find that qoute anywhere.  While I think that whole mob is low IQ, I think they know better, than to do just that...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:44 | 2004404 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Yes, this is a rough spot.  This is a rough spot like Pearl Harbor on December 5th.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:27 | 2004431 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Your government just made it legal to imprison and kill you without a trial.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 21:02 | 2005990 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

post of the week award

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:51 | 2004442 Northeaster
Northeaster's picture

"Nothing so far fetched is going to happen."

Not sure about where you live, but it's already happening. Here in MA, an innocent man was killed by police, no fault found. You go out and kill someone "by tripping"/accident, you're going to jail, for 20 years.

As former LE, this doesn't pass the smell test, just like many others covered across the country.

The framers of our Constitution specifically cited the relationship of having firearms to engage an oppressive/corrupt political hierarchy/government. Now may not be the time, or maybe you think something will be invented to change the scope of an increasing population with fewer resources to support it?

I prefer to err on the side of "having it and not needing it, than to need it and not have it".

Good luck to you.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:29 | 2004654 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Now may not be the time,

If it hasn't happened by now, it wont happen.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:53 | 2004463 Spigot
Spigot's picture

MsC, you are entirely mistaken. Billions of rounds of ammo are bought domesticly each year in the USA. You can never have too much ammo :)

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:06 | 2004531 James
James's picture

Looks like the posters after  MsC don't know who MillionDollarBonus is.She even offered the disclaimer before her statement.

I've noticed reading comprehension skills here @ the Hedge are not peoples strong suit.

You've just been punked!


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:56 | 2004486 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

"This right wing gun nut shit will alienate more sensible readers away from this website."


Please..........feel free to feel alienated.


Go away!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:57 | 2004487 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

L0L!!!  ^very^ nicely done, ms_C!

"I figure I can always barter a popular caliber like 9mm" sez our 28 y-o tennessean, dustin ramsey, who is welcoming the black helicopters, funny clicks on the phone, a quick visit from the cable co, a "bum" going thru his trash, a 'security review' of all his banking, c/card, medical, phone, and travel records as we write, and will receive the irs audit letter next week, just before the search warrants are served, if the guys in the choppers deem it "necessary" [to get a warrant;  not to toss his place]

no different from blogging on zH, really, as more than a few of us have discovered, eh, BiCheZ?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:58 | 2004493 RobD
RobD's picture

I'm pritty sure MsCreant forgot the sarc tag but just incase check out this nice little book


Has some interesting first person stories about how if you trust your life to someone else you may not have a life.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:30 | 2004657 Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

"911 - goverment-sponsored 'Dial-A-Prayer'"!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:00 | 2004499 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Right over their heads...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:13 | 2004580 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Right over their heads... where I will NOT be firing Ladysmith or Glock 17, or 19, or other various rifles or shot guns.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:01 | 2004501 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

If I'm taking this right, she's playing the part of MDB...and as I'd junk MDB for being a ridiculous Progressive knob-gobbler, I'll have to junk you too... JK! 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:11 | 2004562 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Excellent point, not all junking is junk.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:13 | 2004522 fuu
fuu's picture

Well played. I think you should have used some meaningless stat like 6 children were burned last year by taking the powder out of .22LR rounds and lighting it on fire.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:23 | 2004620 Xanadu_doo
Xanadu_doo's picture

or snorting said poweder?

Oh how I LOVE the BURN!!!!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:34 | 2004674 fuu
fuu's picture


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:30 | 2004659 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Not bad, but don't forget that MDB likes to use ALL CAPS for EMPHASIS.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:45 | 2004718 Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

Ms. C:  Nicely done.  People don't get it; not even when you explain it up front.  Thats what MDB and Hamy coming back for more... and I will gladly junk you.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:02 | 2004740 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Thank you sir!

I love ya baby can I have some more...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:44 | 2005011 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Just like Fight Club, where TD tells everyone in Project Mayhem to go out and buy a gun...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 19:51 | 2005811 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:51 | 2006212 DosZap
DosZap's picture


You show an unusual ignorance.

Your saying nearly 50% of the US citizens are are right wing gun nuts?

Your dumb as a stump.Go to any indoor shooting range and see the RED necks.They range from 10-75+yrs old.

Also SCOTUS ruled LONG ago, the police dept's job is NOT  to PROTECT you, or anyone else.They are on the job to keep the laws from being broken, if they happen to be at the right place at the right time,sure they will handle it,but they are 90%+ of the time NOT going to be.

They are Reactive not Proactive.Your PERSONAL safety and your family is YOUR responsibility.

The Sensible ones are and have been for years preparing to defend themselves,and families.

IF you have not, it's your ass.Their blood is on your head.

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 10:39 | 2006952 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Please reread my post. I was joking.

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 17:55 | 2008355 KK Tipton
KK Tipton's picture

Police are "armed historians"


Forgot where I heard that.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:34 | 2004354 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Ive been saying guns and ammo are 'the other PM' for about 2 years here in ZH.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:35 | 2004362 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

so i would gather that you too, are into this "right wing gun shit" ........

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:40 | 2004382 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I guess....all I know is when this house of cards suddenly collapses, at least Ive got plenty of AR's and lots of magazines and ammo for the hoardes of Neandersheeple desperate to get what youve got.

The 'cognitive dissonance' and 'normalcy bias' of the avg american sheeple today is just staggering....convinced nothing cant ever go wrong HERE, nevermind the rest of the world is on fire and a war zone....OH but everything just chugs along here no problem. Theyll soon all be dead or long pork on a spit.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:43 | 2004390 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

just pile them up. use the bodies for sandbags...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:57 | 2004489 Spigot
Spigot's picture

Not really an option as they decompose to quickly and do not capture lead very well. However, a few corpses at the entrance road or intersection will serve the appropriate purposes of redirecting traffic elsewhere.

BTW your handle is an icon for frontier justice, and you have a problem with guns?!? An interesting contradiction, no?


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:45 | 2004726 AustriAnnie
AustriAnnie's picture

I think the gun-toting pic = no "/sarc" required.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:44 | 2005015 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

i love guns. what are you talking about?  also hpd was about revenge , not justice.  revenge is what its all about . sometimes a man has to do what a man has to do......enough said.......

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:14 | 2004882 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

ewww.. stinky sandbags.  I say feed em to the pigs and save the corn for making moonshine.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:02 | 2004508 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

Given the contents of the Info Graphics, there are more of "you" than you think.

Honor your word, defend those around you. Any questions?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:21 | 2004909 aerojet
aerojet's picture

I disagree.  The peopel buying up all the most collectible stuff are about to die off.  Within 10 years, the market will be even more flooded than it is right now.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:35 | 2004359 Y2JPD
Y2JPD's picture

The NATO 5.56 X 45mm 62grain green tip penetrator rounds are my favorite...always brass, never steel casings.  Make sure you stock up while you can! 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:37 | 2004370 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

yes, i have a whole pile of those black rifle like............mongo like too lots ........

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:41 | 2004387 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yep, Lake City 62-gr. SS109, set up at a range 0 of 25yds.

PMs and lead= great investment and insurance against the zombie apocalypse.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:49 | 2004430 jarboejl
jarboejl's picture

Great ammo!  But if you owned an AK you could feed steel casings through it...those bastards can shoot anything, and I mean ANYTHING and keep on goin'.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:30 | 2004655 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

it's definately a great SHTF platform, for sure.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:55 | 2004780 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Yep, this is why I went AK in the great AR vs. AK debate. The SKS is also a good inexpensive choice.

I am strongly considering getting an AR with a bump fire stock while they are still legal though. Wish they would come out with one for AK's.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:51 | 2004448 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Green tip in bulk;  12,500 round barrels.  Wonder if Kyle Bass buys these like he buys nickels, by the palletload...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:05 | 2004837 aerojet
aerojet's picture

The problem with that round is that they go clean through people without slowing down.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:54 | 2005425 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

2 for the price of 1?  Good deal!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:37 | 2004371 Northeaster
Northeaster's picture

Obama: The best boost to the firearms industry ever.

Unfortunately, as any enthusiast knows, sucks for the rest of us because some of the best items are hard to come by:




Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:45 | 2004407 Agent P
Agent P's picture

To quote Jeff Quinn from, "Barack Obama turned out to be the greatest gun salesman since Oliver Winchester."

Jeff Quinn rocks!!!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:59 | 2004498 prodigious_idea
prodigious_idea's picture

Election of a Democratic President has increased ammo and gun sales, but not as much as a war(s).  Check the ammo stats closely for the last ten years.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:38 | 2004377 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

"Bullets are currency. Spend them wisely"

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:19 | 2004608 pelican
pelican's picture

Don't forget gasoline for the V8 interceptor and dog food to snack on. 



Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:39 | 2004380 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

I live in Las Vegas part time (besides NYC) and make it a point to go to all of the gun shows. The folks that come in from California (where, to the best of my knowledge, you can't order online and have it delivered anymore) and literally use dolly's and red wagons and stock up. You'd think that they were taking over a small Affrican country or something.

The ammo guys sell out very quickly, and are mobbed. I always stock up. Regardless.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:40 | 2004386 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

i bet vegas and arizona gun shows are even better than texas gun shows.........more fun stuff to look at......

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:13 | 2004873 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

If you are speaking to silicone or saliene, yes. I would agree.  

Regarding the quality of the underlying equipment and firearms, I wouldn't know for sure as I've never been to any in Texas. But I do know that I have my wishlist put together for the next one coming up in Jan or Feb. And the stuff that is there is incredible.

Got my mom a stun gun for Mothers Day last year. Shipped it FedEx to NY. No problems. Is it legal to own in NY? Not sure on that. I heard from the salesman at the show if push came to shove, its intended use is a "dog training device".  Regardless, I want her protected.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:49 | 2004428 Geruda
Geruda's picture

I am having many hard times to be buying ammunitions.  WHen I am being shopping at shows of guns where I am seeing many of the kinds of peoples who are making me wanting to be buying ammunitions I am wondering if more guns are going into the peoples who are the reasons for why I am wanting to be buying guns in the first place.  Many scarey peoples are in the places where guns are.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:51 | 2004452 jarboejl
jarboejl's picture

I think you might be a scary person...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:23 | 2004622 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

have you ever heard of jackie daniels...?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:44 | 2004724 Blano
Blano's picture

Ingles, por favor.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:54 | 2004772 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

I'm guessing the gun shows in your area are held in an old dance studio...the kind where all the walls are mirrored...?  

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:08 | 2004849 aerojet
aerojet's picture

I never found any people at the shows of guns to be that scary, Borat.  More rednecky and ignorant than anything else.  Nice troll, btw.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:37 | 2004980 Geruda
Geruda's picture

Peoples whose necks are red and who are having much ignorances are people are many times looking like scarey peoples to me.  If you are not thinking they are being scarey you must be having reds in your necks too and might be having a scarey look to me if I was seeing you at the places with guns,=.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:46 | 2005021 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

well darn. i guess we deserve that .......huh?  

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:02 | 2005455 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

@ geruda I have to admit, you are one of the best I have read on this site so far.  I have a feeling you put alot of thought into your posts.  Humorous,  keep posting

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:32 | 2005194 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Yeah, given the way the urban psuedo-sophiticate wannabe hipster latte drinkers of the world have run things them pore dum redneks shore am ignernt in kumperisun. If'n things go to hell we will starv and them Yankee city boys will have them styreefom trays at they grocery stores end lots of food cus they gro food on them trays in the back of the stor, we uns will have to keep growin in dert lik we always do and fixin are ekwipmint lik befor o no we gonna die.

Shavin' they legs and chests makes them slikkers all smarrt en stuf.  We shore am jelis.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:19 | 2005135 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Many often times when drinking having hard times finding shopping for assault rifle.  Scary shopkeeper tell me background check when i no have license or passport. Often times im needing rifle when am working, but hard to load magazine while on amphetamines.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 19:58 | 2005832 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 23:19 | 2006275 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Who u trying to fool?

Your English is almost fake, and the Gun Shows your going to, if you are,are not filled with THAT kind of people remember they must pass FBI Checks,unless your in Slovakia,and I wasn't aware they had gun shows there,

I will tell you where you where your correct,

Many scarey peoples are in the places where guns are.

(Right ,wherever you hang out, and where you LEAST expect it,

This is the reason law abiding FBI approved folks are buying them..............

And I am not talking about Gun shows,been to at least a 50 in my life, never heard,seen, a cross word, of a fight of any kind,EVER.

Now Colleges,and school yards, and High schools,and anywhere there stands a really good chance there will BE NO guns, that's the scary places.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:50 | 2004435 divide_by_zero
divide_by_zero's picture

Not only can you not buy firearm ammo online in CA anymore, you cannot even buy pellets for an air gun online anymore. I better stock up on archery gear before that goes as well, if you're in survival mode prefer not making loud gun shot noises.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:27 | 2005362 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Well that is a small price to pay for the dramatic drop in gun violence in CA.  Across the board, UK, Australia, and in liberal states here in America...when tough gun legislation is implemented, violent crime goes down!


sarc off/


O wait, it's the opposite?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:04 | 2004523 RobD
RobD's picture

Not sure if it passed or not but there was bill to get a thumb print from you to buy ammo in Cali. This I do know, they just outlawed "in plan site carry" of pistols. The law is so poorly written(or maybe not) that you basically are breaking the law anytime you take a pistol out of your house in Cali.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:42 | 2004393 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

+.223 Ruger+1911 Springfield.45+.300magBAR+Mossberg semi-auto shotgun+ammo cans=sound investment.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:43 | 2004400 Silverballs
Silverballs's picture

I assuming people that afford gold can also afford guns

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:47 | 2004417 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

You almost captured the spirit.

"I'm assuming people that afford gold can't also afford not to own guns"

There.  Fixed it.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:03 | 2004514 Silverballs
Silverballs's picture

Thanks jpm..I'm typing on my iPhone in slow moving traffic and I have fat fingers which doesn't help

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:54 | 2004771 UnderDeGun
UnderDeGun's picture

I think more folks can afford guns than gold. I don't know if that's a good thing.  What I do know is that using a firearm is a perishable skill.  Furthermore, shooting at anything in a static mode (both, you and the target are motionless throughout  the course of the round) does not truly help you when it comes to a defensive situation.  Don't get me wrong, "static" repetition with a gun is better than nothing --- but so is a slingshot. If it's all you have - use it.

Guys and girls at ZH - please  take my advice (I have been down the road many times, and I know wherefore I speak):  You use your computer everyday, most of you drive everyday there is a myriad of other things you do EVERYDAY.  Most of those things will not be of use to you when it comes time for the violence of action. MAKE TIME to go shoot at least once every two weeks.  More if you can.  Practice is important because why? "A person will rise only to their level of training and experience." With no practice, if the SHTF, you will be having to THINK about not only the threat but also the tool and its use to neutralize that threat.  That is ONE too many things to have to deal with when your life may be on the line.  It is a proven scientific fact that human beings can only focus on one thing at a time. Please don't have to think how to work when the "bear" is coming to eat you.

If it can only be static-target shooting so be it.  You can at least sway back and forth on the line if nothing else (yes - motion is critical!  Motion keeps you alive.  Anyone standing still in a confrontation where firearms are involved  is gonna be dead or seriously injured long before the person in motion will be.  Another thing - start now practicing looking around after you shoot. Situational awareness is key.  Fire you shot or shots the look left then look right. "But I'll look stupid standing in or on the line doing that when everyone else isn't!.  big fucking deal - I say.  DO IT.  All the time.  It costs nothing and may very well save your life because you need see the other threats coming AND it gives you awareness of where the clear paths for hauling ass lay.  During parctice the folks the "get it", the real shooters, will know what you are doing and why and note to themselves that you have a freaking head on your shoulders. Also - practice at home. Dry fire, trigger control, sight allignment, drawing (if you plan to use a holster or sling), clearing drills, etc.  (And if you don't know what some of those are seek out someone who does and expand your knowledge.)

If you have access to a range where you can move and shoot and draw (sling and unsling) take advantage of it.  MOTION is the key in most critical defense situations.  Not all, but most.  Learn to move and shoot (chew gun and walk) at the same time.  If you think it's easy - it is not (at first).  However, it becomes easier the more you do it. And it is serious fun too.  Seek out an IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Shooters Association) group near you.  They are all over the US now, hell they even have chapters in JAPAN, of all places.  You learn to move and shoot while having fun. Please note, there are other groups out there that do very similar things - I only mention IDPA because they are so numerous around the country.   Feel confident enough in yourself to know you may not know it all and do ask for help or pointers from more experienced shooters (I have been shooting for nigh on fifty years, and I always look around to see if someone is doing something I might be able to learn from and I GO TALK TO THEM, or I may shoot with someone I respect and I ask them to watch me to see if I am doing something they think I shouldn't be doing or things I might need to correct.  I have never met a shooter in my life whop wasn't ready, willing and able to help anyone who asked.  Said another way: ALMOST EVERY SHOOTER OUT THERE LOVES TO HELP OTHER SHOOTERS - REGARDLESS OF THEIR EXPERIENCE (both the shooter's and the helped).  Not all advice will be helpful, but if you asked for it don't argue but do ask questions.  You DO NOT have to take the advice given if it doesn't feel right, that is always your prerogative.

Lastly, you don't have to shoot that big 45 or your 357 or whatever to practice properly.  My favorite is a 45XD Tactical. My EDC is a Keltec 380.  My regular trips to the range do not find me shooting these all the time.  The majority of rounds downrange come out of either a Ruger MkIII .22 or a S&W K22.  Why?  Practice is the thing.  Twenty-Twos are cheap (as a friend says, "The .22 cartridge will be the new 25 cent piece of 2014.  He exaggerates - I pray), and I can put five downrange for the cost of one .45 acp round (current retail, not bulk).  That means a whole bunch of practice for a very small cost.  Practice is the key - not the caliber.  Because when it comes "down to the nut cut'in" you WILL perform with the big caliber (reasonable calibers - not 50 bmgs or 500 S&Ws) just like you practiced with the small caliber.  Why?  Because "practice is training."


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:10 | 2004858 aerojet
aerojet's picture

I'm just curious what exactly you are getting prepared to do?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:36 | 2004974 LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

Great tips.  Thanks for taking the time to share them.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:11 | 2005482 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

Amen Underdegun,  as a local elected official, I watch our police train at our shooting range and the look left, look right with movement is solid advice.  I am a competitive pistol shooter and I know that if you don't train and study/read about what can happen in a firefight you are at a distinct disadvantage.  Well said, brother

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:13 | 2005495 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

I should add that as an elected official, I would absolutely stand opposed to any firearm confiscation by my local police dept. as the New Orleans P.D. did during Katrina

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 19:11 | 2005703 Barbarians_R_Us
Barbarians_R_Us's picture

UnderDeGun, I agree 100% with your comments and advice. The "physical" aspect of shooting is important and requires continuous skill building. However there is one other aspect even more important thant that when it comes to the potential need to use violence should it come to that: the mental aspect. Just as having a gun does not in any way equate to being able to use it, the same goes for being in a violent situation and being able to respond with deadly force. The psychological, ethical and emotional "training" needed to KILL someone is a very specialized piece of training. Those of us who have been in the military, have or have not seen action, often take this for granted because we received so much of it. It was an embedded lifestyle for us for many years. Your average computer using, American Idol watching, Prius driving American is very far away mentally in terms of being able to take a life. The human psychology needs this training as much the human physiology needs to learn how to shoot IMHO. Short of joining the military, I'd suggest reading a few of the books out there on this subject. One that comes to mind is "Facing Violence" Preparing for the Unexpected", but there are others as well.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:45 | 2004405 falak pema
falak pema's picture

American deathwish : thinking guns and ammo can solve a collective problem; all it does is drive a deeper wedge into body politic, driving further each individual into his own temporal castle, dark dungeon, like a vassal to feudal oligarch. The ultimate betrayal to tree of knowledge is becoming a total social darwinian; 'Eye for eye, tooth for tooth' mantra. The Oligarchs love to see the mice turn to such blindness.

Not saying that the right to self defense does not exist for the indiividual. Its primordial. But its the role of society to provide solution, not become THE PROBLEM! By dissolving the state structure we are back to feudalism. WIth a vengeance. Now your neighbour is your enemy, not your fellow man. 


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:48 | 2004424 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

"thinking guns and ammo can solve a collective problem"

I agree it wont solve a collective problem.  That's why I will be killing the morons on my property one at a time.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:48 | 2004425 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

What is the opposite of a total social darwinian?

Modern society?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:59 | 2004488 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Look at it this way, we have let democracy become kleptocracy. We have to fix that by democratic means. Not become part of the problem but part of the solution.

By considering the guns n ammo sector as an investment we create a NEW BUBBLE economy of sterile investment, that does NOT help the real economy, unless you have shares in Winchester, Uzis or the Colt industries. 

This financialised economy is doped on derivatives, non productive death creating financials, fake instruments. By creating a new bubble in the small arms sector, we do the same at individual level. We act like those mad traders, we become a derivative trade sector with private savings. WHy not then invest in "white powder" instead?

Yes, Death wish. We are now individually part of the problem if we go down this route. 

Fight the sterile bubble economy, don't create new sterile bubbles that  come back to bite you!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:08 | 2004549 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

You furriners will just never understand the american love affair with guns.

I pop a boner when I see a really hot one.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:25 | 2004636 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

what is cool about it, is to see all the hot chicks firing guns at the ranges these days.   they came full circle and now they are back......

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:23 | 2005153 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Be honest guys, she is the reason you watch American Guns...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:45 | 2004728 viahj
viahj's picture

^^^ look everyone, this guy/gal still thinks that our nation can be particpating in a "democracy"!  the only way to "fix" this nation is to tear it down to it's foundation and rebuild and that process will not be without peril.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:17 | 2005513 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

Believe it or not, my home state(Illinois) has some of the finest firearm manufacturers in the country and I believe in buying American, especially when those American workers are Illinois residents

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:49 | 2004432 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

History fail.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:10 | 2004556 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Right, because God knows being self reliant and able to defend oneself and one's community is the same thing as pledging loyalty to a king somewhere.

I mean, one iota of logical analysis before hitting the "save" button would save you a lot of abuse.

Feudalism is the ultimate in big government, just on a local scale.  The fact that you don't understand that implies that no-one should ever listen to anything you have to say regarding politics, because the basis for your reasoning sends your conclusions off in random directions.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:49 | 2004713 falak pema
falak pema's picture

how does have an over supply of guns in your house help you defend  yourself better? Its a bubble and you know it. Unless you are part of the NRA scam. As for generalisations, like saying 'cos you're wrong on my pet theme you're wrong on every thing, makes you what is clear in your posts : you believe in your prejudices based on generalisations. Not based on reality. Reality is the small guns racket, like the derivatives racket. That's the gist of my argument, its an economic scam. I am not against people having a right to defend themselves. It is against a racket. You don't need twenty guns to defend yourelf. And learn to read the details before flying off the handle. I'm repeating myself and your blindness makes me do it. Open yer eyes.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:57 | 2004797 AustriAnnie
AustriAnnie's picture

Do you have any idea what a gun is worth when people need one to defend themselves?   "You don't need twenty guns to defend yourself" - No, you need one or two, plus you might want to have the other 18-19 to arm the people you trust, or to sell to others who will pay any price for them.  Its always wise to stock up on the items that become scarce in hard times.

Yes, gun companies make money off of people who prepare.  Gold sellers do also, and so do toilet paper manufacturers.  The fact that they make money off of it does not make it unwise to purchase those items.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:51 | 2005030 falak pema
falak pema's picture

the sad message I get from your rants is : We don't believe in the USA, not as it is, not as it was under FDR...and I'm not even american... It's an enigma, this moral regression.

What America do you believe in? Where you all take pot shots at your neighbours to make the small arms economy turnover?

If you don't use that ammo n guns, its wasted capital. You gotta make it rotate! So you gotta fire it, the ammo. We needs some Apache in the USA to take out!... Ok, I'm beginning to understand you AA....manifest destiny has to be a recurrent event.

You gotta be part of the bubble economy, fellaaaaa! you got to get a CDS out on the guy next door and his life expectancy.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:48 | 2005246 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

You make a mistake in looking at the US as a homogenous entity- it is not and never was.  The ethnic and cultural divides are at least as deep as anything in Europe, a common language and currency dont make a people.  We are composed of several regions with distinct cultures which would all make reasonable countries standing on their own, and the current political gridlock is nothing but the logical result of the differences in those areas and how their inhabitants want to live.  Add in the whole multicultural/ethnic boondoggle and its a powder keg awaiting a spark.

It was no different under FDR, any common feeling was due to war against two major global powers.  The fault lines in this society stretch back to its founding and have never gone away, they have only deepened.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:08 | 2005313 falak pema
falak pema's picture

A pity, the world looked at the USa as a successful model of modernity. It makes you wonder if that deviant genius, Oscar Wilde, was not right when he said :

USA : a country that went from barbarism to decadence without knowing civilization. Unless you consider, the hamburger, blue jeans, coca cola etc. as civilization. I do consider US film making and jazz, just to mention two traits, as civilization. 'Gotta dance' and 'Top hat'...In Europe, "old continent" we need a cultural change. It may come in unexpected fashion;...Now going backwards...the torch is extinguished, to light it its not the current imbroglio that will ignite it. how? look back and see for yourself...

But certainly not the firearms industry. There you have more in common with the Taliban culture. They love guns. All you have to do is visit Peshawar. The Pashtoon culture. Sign of eternal regression, since ALexander days it hasn't moved one inch,  where women are walking tents. In that respect they are ahead of USA on the regressionary curve. Just being tongue in cheek....I hope!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:38 | 2005386 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

A pity? I dont see it that way nor do I see it as regression.

To my mind it isnt possible to hammer 300 million people into one box without the use of a level of coercion which is in itself the antithesis of a basic requirement of any level of "culture" in the current world(and how that is defined is a whole new argument but will leave that aside)- and that is basic human freedom.  There is much lip service given here to diversity but it is a shallow, mindless sort of diversity where someone eats Italian food one night, Thai the next, and a good ol' hamburger after that and thinks themselves diverse.  I would say that real diversity involves a range of thought and life experience that will in and of themselves lead to very different results in the basic life philosphy of people and give them different views on what they want from life and how to live.  We still have that to a limited extent here and I dont see it as a bad thing that by and large northerners generally favor a European style social structure while southerners generally favor a greatly decentralized power structure and the left coast flirts with flat out Marxism.  I see this as a natural progression and evolution in a society that still has some vestiges of freedom and not a move backwards.

Say what you will about the Pashtoon, but EVERYONE knows they are a complete flipping nightmare to screw with and I would say that this is why they are still a people so many years removed from Alexander, how many more "civilized" and "cultured" peoples have been consigned to the dustbin of history and exterminated in that time frame?  As it has guaranteed their survival for millennia, I dont see that being regression. It seems a highly successful survival strategy in a very harsh area to me.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:42 | 2005613 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

Backwards to Constitutional gov't.  You got that right

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:03 | 2005297 tmosley
tmosley's picture

So if you don't use insurance, it's wasted capital?  If you never have someone try your door, a lock is wasted capital?  If you never get sick, a vaccine is wasted capital?

An armed populace means that individuals are much less likely to try to steal from or assault others, as there is a much greater chance of being killed in the process.  It is a crime vaccine.  Sure, the individual weapon provides some protection, much like a vaccine is not absolute protection against a given disease, but if enough people get them, you get herd immunity.

But then, I suspect all of that reason is beyond you.  You think the only reason people have guns is so they can shoot their neighbors.  You never thought that neighbors might just defend one another.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:54 | 2005659 AustriAnnie
AustriAnnie's picture

you beat me to it mosley.  you can be my neighbor any day   :)

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 19:30 | 2005753 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

An armed society is a polite society.  Robert Heinlein

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:52 | 2005650 AustriAnnie
AustriAnnie's picture

my neighbor is not the one the guns are for.

A civilization that has no power whatsoever to defend itself is most likely to experience regression -- to a civilization full of scared people looking to the government to "protect them".  

I don't believe in the USA as it IS today.  You got that right. 

Ammo and guns are not wasted capital if they go unused, in fact if they go unused often that means they have served their purpose: preventing aggression. 

A true armed American hopes never to have to pull a trigger in a real fight.  The idea of gun ownership is to promote peace, not aggression.  


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:19 | 2004899 aerojet
aerojet's picture

You got downvoted, but I agree.  Where the hell are all these gun owners?  My gun club is run by guys in their late 60s and 70s and there are a few of us guys in our 30s and they call us "son."  The same few people show up for rifle matches year in and year out.  The local pay-as-you-go pistol range always seems pretty busy, but I never have trouble renting a lane anytime I go there--I have never once had to wait.  So who is buying all those guns and what are they doing with them?  Damned if I can tell you.  I think it is just guys who already own a lot of guns already who are buying more because they collect them--like me. 

I, too, am completely fed up with the NRA.  For the amount of money Americans have pounded into the NRA's coffers, the 1934 NFA and the 1968 GCA should have been repealed by now.  It all went to pad out the pockets of double-talking politicians.

Also, how come if so many people are buying guns, why is every major gun manufacterer having so much trouble financially?  Quality is way down, quality control is non-existent. 

The concealed carry permit thing is truly a racket--you pay out the ass to jump through the hoops to get the permit, further padding out the coffers of people whom gun owners don't like, and then there's all these little guns like Kel-Tecs and Beretta Nanos and such and none of them actually function reliably because they're too small, but it doesn't matter because nobody is going to use them to protect themselves because they were never endangered in the first place; and it's not like you're going to use that tiny piece of shit at the range, either, because there are always bigger, better handguns to shoot at the range. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:47 | 2005023 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Depends on where you live I guess.  My nearest rifle range is public and there is usually a waiting period to get one of 5 lanes, entire families are a regular sight with 8 year olds shooting their first Chipmunk .22.  All ages and both sexes all day long in my neck of the woods, anytime but late spring to late summer you can plan on waiting at least 30-60 minutes.  Other ranges out here are all the same way.

Of course Im in rural SC where gun ownership is pretty much expected, on the plus side crime borders on non-existent.  My town has a population of under 3000- and 3 gun shops.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:59 | 2005275 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You can't tell the difference between rule by an aristocracy (feudalism) and no government (anarchy), or even any other form of government juxtaposed against an armed populace.  If you can't tell the difference, then you are an idiot, and are not to be trusted.  This is logical progression.  You wouldn't ask someone who can't add or subtract about their opinion on tax law and expect a usable answer.

Who, EXACTLY was talking about buying 20 guns for personal use?  No-one.  That is something that crept into your empty little head to stay the night.  There are people talking about having one of each class of firearm, which leaves them with about 5.  Big fucking deal.  You can get that many weapons for the price of a new big screen TV.  No-one is running out and spending their life savings on guns, and you are being disingenuous for claiming that they are.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:47 | 2004736 Blano
Blano's picture

We don't think it solves a collective problem.

It does however solve MY problem.

See the difference??

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:45 | 2004408 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Thanks to gold suppression, you can spend 1/10 the money you would normally on gold.  The rest can go to things like guns, explosives, and body armor.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:46 | 2004414 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Over the past 3 months I have sold over 30 guns via auction and most went quite quickly even though some were collectibles and some niche-type calibers/styles.  There is a healthy market out there in guns and I've considered getting an FFL and even buying a local gunsmith/shop that's for sale.  I've bought ammo each month along with PM's as my 'store of value' and will continue to do so.  I was recently visited by a very Liberal-minded cousin who is every bit in Obama's camp and when I mentioned the gun auctions she questioned how hard it was to ship guns.  Her husband had some left to him which were with a relative out of state and she wanted to know how best to get them to their place in CA.  She said 'Because you never know'.  I was pretty surprised given their views on politics over the years but I think the catalyst was all the posturing over Iran based on her other comments. With the surge this year in Democrat and women buying guns, should be an interesting metric to watch through the next election...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:47 | 2004416 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Funny how gun sales were better on black friday 2011 than black friday 2008 and the government keeps saying ``the economy is getting better``... the people don't believe you.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:47 | 2004418 STP
STP's picture

Lessee, 357 Magnum and plenty of rounds, check.  12 Gauge pump shotgun, check.  Remington 770 7mm magnum, a so-so rifle, bolt action, but it will do the job, check.

Knowing that you can defend yourself when the shit hits the fan, priceless!

PS:  The County of Los Angeles is broke, the State of California is broke and now the U.S. Gov't is broke.  What do you think will happen when all those popular entitlements stop?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:47 | 2004420 j0nx
j0nx's picture

Gift wrapped thread for the NDAA goons.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:53 | 2004461 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Fuck em.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:48 | 2004422 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

If you rely on your government to protect you, who will protect you from your government?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:49 | 2004429 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Nothing like a gun article to bring out us gun nuts.

Wanna cheap, long range, and very respectable shooter?

Get an m44 mosin nagant.90 bucks. sniperscope 99 bucks.

Case of 770 rounds military grade ammo 140 dollars.

Has the characteristics and ballistics of a 30.06.

Go out to the long range gun range and start at 100 yards and work your way up to 500 to 600 yards.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:51 | 2004445 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Go to aim surplus on the internet for your gun and ammo.

Gun will have to be transferred to a local gun dealer. Most local gun dealers will happily do the transfer for 25 bucks.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 19:49 | 2005800 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

Come on, you get what you pay for.  Spend some of that gold on some high quality American made firearms. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:08 | 2004544 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Just picked one up locally via Gunbroker.  The M44 was not as cheap as the standard 1891/30 at $150 but it shoots great.  CheaperThanDirt also carries them when available(AIM is out currently also) and for $69 for the 1891/30.  Wondering if I should try one of the Monte Carlo stocks for it?  Know anyone who's tried one? Or just leave the classic alone?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:23 | 2005150 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Monte carlo looks great.
I cant afford to arm an entire platoon with fancy stuff.

My guys are gonna be happy with wood.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:01 | 2005285 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

I have not but not too long ago met a guy at the range who did- his complaint was that the reduced weight increased recoil.  I fired a couple shots, and you really know it when you touch one off.  Those Nagants kick hard in the first place, so I guess its a straight up tradeoff of less weight for more recoil.  Depends on how much you are willing to take in your shoulder I guess, you may want to look into a recoil pad.

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