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Infographic - Are Guns And Ammo The New Gold?

Tyler Durden's picture





 

There are those who contend that when fiat dies, gold and precious metals will take its place. Then, a smaller subset out there, claims that it matters not who owns the gold or silver. All that matters is who is in charge of the lead. The following inforgraphic from ammo.net may shed some much needed light on the topic, which as recent Thanksgiving record sales indicated, more and more people are starting to lock in on (and load).

Is Ammo The New Gold? Full Infographic
Via: Ammo.net

From ammo.net

The threat of a U.S. double dip recession coupled with this summer's debt debacle in Washington - and the subsequent failure of the so-called "debt supercommittee" - has many ordinary Americans looking at gold as a safe store of value.  However, there's another commodity that historically has risen in price along with gold - and is potentially more useful in the event of a global crisis: Ammunition.

 

Some of the fear-based psychological reasons for gold's popularity in times of economic crisis appear to be similar to the reasons cited for purchasing guns and ammunition.  Michael Thompson, a small business owner from Virginia, had this to say about why he recently purchased 2,000 rounds of 223 ammunition to go with his growing collection of AR-15 assault rifles: "Since ARs are so well-known & widespread, quality ones don't really go down in value.  I don't trust what's going on in Washington and a reliable firearm that'll hold it's value plus ammo that I can always re-sell later if I don't use it up seems like as safe a place as any to put my money in these uncertain times."

 

One prominent factor which customers at Ammo.net cite as one of their primary reasons for stocking up on guns & ammo now is the uncertainty surrounding U.S. firearm regulations.  Many wonder if President Obama's official position on firearm regulation will change if he wins a second term. Others point to recent actions taken by President Obama's appointees in the EPA and the Department of Justice, citing the EPA's recently proposed ban on lead ammunition due to health concerns about the lead seeping into ground water supplies and the on-going debacle surrounding the Deparment of Justice's failed Fast & Furious sting operation.  Several states have also enacted anti-gun legislation recently, such as California expanding their controversial gun registry to now include purchasers of new rifles and shotguns.

 

Dustin Ramsey, a 28 year old self-proclaimed "realist" from Tennessee who says hunting and fishing are two of his favorite outdoor activities, counts the 5,000 rounds of 9mm ammunition he keeps on-hand as one of his investments along with gold coins: "I'm a hunter so I know I can use my guns & ammo to feed my family if something happens to our usual food supply and there's a run at our grocery store. Plus, it seems like somebody on Wall Street is always getting bailed out nowadays and my faith in the stock market has been gone for a long time. Look, I've seen what happens when times get tough and I figure I can always barter a popular caliber like 9mm for other supplies like I would with gold if push comes to shove. And if a crisis never materializes where I need my stash of ammo, I still love to shoot so those bullets won't go to waste. Given the uncertainty in our world, ammunition seems more practical to me than gold, whether there's an economic crisis or not."

 

Whatever their reason, Americans are purchasing firearms and ammunition in record numbers.  USA Today recently reported that the FBI experienced on Black Friday their single largest number of background check requests ever in a single day, smashing the previous record by 32%.  Background check requests are processed by the FBI according to federal law.  Gallop also reported that gun ownership is at an 18 year high, with 47% of Americans admitting to Gallop they own a gun.  These statistics coupled with customer feedback at Ammo.net indicate more Americans are taking advantage of their constitutional right to own a firearm - and are arming up in increasing large numbers.

 


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Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:41 | Link to Comment Conax
Conax's picture

I'm half deaf and my mosin nagant carbine gives me a pounding headache after about 20 rounds. That rascal has to be the loudest rifle I ever shot.

One other thing- people should try to get a couple guns that shoot .223, 9mm, .45 acp and .308.

The military issues these and there will always be some ammo available for them, if you get my drift.

Peace

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:50 | Link to Comment stant
stant's picture

folks here have always traded guns ammo , for trucks, cars ,horses. farmland, boats. granted they are collector guns. but they all started out as a new gun

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:51 | Link to Comment Karlus
Karlus's picture

Dont forget the bricks of .22lr. You are not going to want to barter your .223 or 9mm that much. A brick of 500 .22 will get you a lot further down the road...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:51 | Link to Comment WTF2
WTF2's picture

"God created man and Sam Colt made them equal"

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:52 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

no one needs a gun!

guns kill people!

as for gold and silver.. its a bubble!

paper is soooooooooooooooo much easier to fold up and ut in your wallet or purse.

the United States Government will get everything worked out like they always do!

there is no reason for anyone to have to worry about this silliness! the war is over! the troops are out of Iraq! just like Obama promised!

everyone needs to just settle down! simma down naaow!

 

and for all of you people with Gold and Guns and Your American Flags Hung High spouting off about the Constitution and Rights of the People!

well, I saw something so I called! http://www.dhs.gov/files/reportincidents/counterterrorism.shtm see something? report it! and get paid!

now that we have won the War on Terror! the BIG / HUGE Problem must be Faced!

the Home Grown Threat, You may never even suspect your nieghbors.. but they could be home grown terrorists..

so watch them! watch them closely!

you never can tell!

do they have guns?

do they go to church?

do they believe in the Constitution?

do they have a pantry? or any kind of food that has been around longer than 7 days? even that old soup no one will eat wayyyyyy in the back..

The MOST DANGEROUS! are the God Loving! Constitutional Ones!! WATCH THEM! CLOSE!!

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/R41416.pdf

http://csis.org/files/publication/100304_Nelson_GrowingTerroristThreat_Web.pdf

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2011/7/7/95533/80670

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/16/politics/main4949158.shtml

even more dangerous than the Christian Terrorists!

http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/2011-12-06_-_aclu_statement_for_joint_hearing_on_homegrown_terrorism_-_final.pdf

thats right! the Commie Pinko ACLU! who fights for the Christian Terrorists Rights!

imagine they want Terrorists, just becuase they are Americans.. in America.. to have a Fair Trial! what the hell fur'???

http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/_files/IslamistReport.pdf

you can read right there.. how Ismalist Extremists are the SAME as Christians with Guns and a copy of the Constitution! the Goobermint said so!

Report Incidents "If You See Something, Say Something™"

If you see suspicious activity, please report it to your local police department. If you are experiencing an emergency, please call 911. More on the "If You See Something, Say Something™" campaign.

Immigration or Customs Violations

Report suspected immigration or customs violations to Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).

  • Report suspicious activity by calling 1-866-347-2423.
Cybersecurity Activity Emergencies in Federal Buildings

Report life-threatening and non-life-threatening emergencies in federal buildings to Federal Protective Service (FPS).

  • Report suspicious activity by calling 1-877-4FPS-411 (1-877-437-7411).

 

I reported all of ya's!

Dont worry you dont need to expensive amblulance chaser! cause' yous is goin straight to gitmo! gitmo mo rights in cuba!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:04 | Link to Comment topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

JW is just trying out for sidekick to million dollar bonus.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:13 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

I am NO where near the talent level of million dollar bonus! God Bles him for trying to make people laugh!

maybe we should report him to the department of home land security! Father Land Part Duex!

now that snatch and grabing U.S. Citizens is Legal!

just as long as the torture happens off shore.. its all good!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:19 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDhBo43GYCk&feature=player_embedded

our ponzi scheme is growing faster than your real economy.. so we are winning! Double Winning Drenched in Tiger Blood Baby!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:45 | Link to Comment topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

You are manic again.

Get back on your lithium.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:01 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

That was very funny! you guys dont down arrow this well respected and loved family member!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 23:33 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

home

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:04 | Link to Comment Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Gold and Silver have been money for 5,000+ years and that’s never going to change. Read the history of what happened to Wiemar, Argentina, and Zimbabwe when their currencies and economies collapsed. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:29 | Link to Comment sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

And one can also read history where things of value were transfered to other parties, often by force. You can buy your way out of some stuff or it can be simply taken by force. It is prudent to have basic protection to keep your valuables.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:53 | Link to Comment HileTroy
HileTroy's picture

Does 6 years in the Marines as a trained sniper and graduate of US Army Ranger School Count????

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:01 | Link to Comment JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Once the revolution comes I will have bunk space for you.

Password-clearshot.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:46 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

I'm guessing you were also the door gunner on the space shuttle Atlantis, too.  Being a "trained sniper" isn't much of a big deal anymore given the kill counts of some of the people returning from Afghanistan and Iraq.  How many people have you actually killed?  I'm a trained sniper, too--I have won highpower shooting maches, I can use a mil dot scope to range a target, I can camouflage myself, and I'm a sneaky bastard and could probably get around places without being seen.  Well, so what?  Do you really think it increases your chances of survival in the kind of collapse all the Internet cowboys keep harping on?  The kind that all these idiots seem to be buying guns for?  If it does happen, and I tend to doubt that it will, but just hypothetically let's say it does all go bad here in the US. Well, you'll be getting out of your car with some groceries, your gun on your hip, and you'll be ambushed by two dozens blacks who will beat you to death with pipes and their bare hands and none of that Marine or Ranger training will mean jack shit.  Everyone is living some kind of idiotic fantasy about this crap instead of trying to actually head off the problem, which would require us to actually prosecute those who are at fault in the whole thing.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:56 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Good post. Because they won't prosecute, so many of us feel out of control and are trying to nail down all that we can. We don't know what else to do but store provisions and make an attempt to secure ourselves. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:06 | Link to Comment AustriAnnie
AustriAnnie's picture

Well if I"m in the parking lot when that happens, I'll get at least 6 of them for you   

If there are 1 or 2 more like me also around, then there will be two dozen bodies lying on the asphalt when we're done.

 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:03 | Link to Comment au_bayitch
au_bayitch's picture

#Austri - Truth

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 23:59 | Link to Comment Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

yea,

there will be two dozen bodies lying on the asphalt when we're done. 

..and this all over the country, day after day.  How long  until the people will scream "enough" and the troups with Baghdad urban warfare callousness will "night-raid" you to relieve you of your weapons? 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:17 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Not everyone is stupid enough to live in an urban area, out in the sticks we have our own food supplies and know the chokepoints.  Im not a trained sniper but am a solid shot out to 5-600 yards with my .30-06.  I grew up in one of the nastiest areas in this country (West Baltimore) and have a fair bit of experience with the gangbanger crowd, the vast majority absolutely cant shoot worth a damn beyond point blank.  In a meltdown scenario I would happily engage those types at distance.

Give me three solid rednecks with scoped hunting rifles against 30 average bangers and you'll have 20 dead "gangstas" and 10 running for the hills before they get close enough to have a chance of hitting anything.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:22 | Link to Comment GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Americans need to realize that the ideological battle is heating up presently and if that is lost, in all likelyhood guns will come in handy(unintended). Instead of arming yourselves to the gills, I'd be heading off to book stores(they're all empty or closing down) acquiring real skills, finding out about my town/city Sheriff and getting closer with my neighbor and community. I plan on staying overseas no matter what, unless by some small chance the truth of the situation starts appearing on the various 'mainstream' outlets. I'll cast a vote for Paul and hope for the best whilst already decided we're heading for the worst.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:31 | Link to Comment DarthVaderMentor
DarthVaderMentor's picture

Aerojet, the training (at least the Marine combat infantry training) means a lot. The gangs in LA and Chcago are now requiring their lead members to join the Marines if they can. It seems that gang members trained in urban combat tactics are popping out all over the SW and the SWAT teams are being out maneuvered tactically. 

There's a video of a gang banger with an automatic assault rifle (AK74M) sweeping a street just recently, just like they taught them to clean out the streets of Fallujah. Took three full SWAT teams to finally take him out. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:54 | Link to Comment exodus11
exodus11's picture

Any guesses on who owns the gun companies?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:56 | Link to Comment Richard Head
Richard Head's picture

Cerberus, the private equity firm, apparently has bought up a lot of gun manufacturers I believe, including Remington.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:54 | Link to Comment Y2JPD
Y2JPD's picture

Kaddafi had the best of both worlds...a gun made of gold!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:59 | Link to Comment Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

It's called Civic Responsibility my friends.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:59 | Link to Comment junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

Guns will likely be more appropriate looking at the candidates, this country is going full third world

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ron-paul-2012-goper-walks-cnn-interview-racist-newsletters-article-1.995353

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:02 | Link to Comment Rearranging Dec...
Rearranging Deckchairs's picture

This is like a prison currency of cigarettes. The problem with this type of currency is that they are "used". And depending upon "smuggling or production" and "use" the local economy would inflate and deflate eratically. In prison as awful as it is all that you must have to live is provided by the prison. In an economic collapse there is no prison to provide you with clean water and food.

Ammunition wouldn't be any different than whiskey, toothpaste, soap, gasoline or any other consumable. Its valuable to barter for something you do need. But it ain't no lasting currency. I guess it could get you to the new regime. But you might be just as well stock up on these other consumables that people will want.

Ironically $100 dollar bills would essentially be kindling or toilet paper.

At least gold and silver coins would be largely not consumed if the economy collapses. I can't see people turning it into jewelry but rather melting down jewelry.

But considering the chart with ammunition prices I wish I had the foresight to stock up on it back in the day.

What a life to have lived to be raised fully believing in the ponzi system and awakening to see it for what it is.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 19:56 | Link to Comment ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

00 buck and .223

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:04 | Link to Comment Rubicon
Rubicon's picture

God bless America

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:06 | Link to Comment NuYawkFrankie
NuYawkFrankie's picture

What about Pepper Spray? Is it the new Colt 45 ?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:46 | Link to Comment James
James's picture

NuYawkFrankie, That hornet spray that shoots thirty feet is cheaper and just as effective

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:50 | Link to Comment JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/712453/Pepper-spray-has-an-ineffective-side.html

True story.  Ineffective against Mexican Americans and me.  I eat the hotest shit i can get my hands on.  Masocist really but.

Bullets will also not work against my +232 Parry and +325 stamina with a Druid healer and my "Pit Lord's Destroyer." http://www.wowhead.com/item=72844

I'll just "Make a move."

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 19:43 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I do believe that's the first time I've seen a link to "Deseret News" here at the 'Hedge. . .

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:09 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

We're all going to get rendered. Being prepared for the worst means we believe it could happen which helps our enemies. Having guns makes us armed terrorists now.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:08 | Link to Comment LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

12,000 rounds and counting.

Molon Labe, Bitches!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:02 | Link to Comment hognutz
hognutz's picture

Good!  But remeber OPSEC.......

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:09 | Link to Comment luna_man
luna_man's picture

 

 

"MsCreant"

Get to packing!!...You're taking-up valuable space here!!...

But in all seriousness, I know, it's the pressure of not knowing when that next shoe will drop.

Forget about packing, let Tyler console you...He's good at that.  Right? 

 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:10 | Link to Comment UTICA CLUB XX PURE
UTICA CLUB XX PURE's picture

SILVER BULLETS 4 SILVER BITCHEZ

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:21 | Link to Comment Conax
Conax's picture

My .45 is stoked with Winchester Silvertips (185 gn HP)

The Michigan Wolfman is out there, waiting...

 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:05 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

get some gold speerdot..

or remington 230 grain white box.

hydra-shocks are soooooo 1990's..

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:17 | Link to Comment YearZero Institute
YearZero Institute's picture

Maybe you bunch of backwards twats could do the rest of the world a fucking favour and off each other. Would make a change from murdering women and kids in the Middle East/Africa/Central Asia etc etc...

No offence meant like.

 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:07 | Link to Comment au_bayitch
au_bayitch's picture

#YearZero - None taken, PNC of 13.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:33 | Link to Comment sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

And it isn't just private citizens.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/12/20/local-cops-ready-for-wa...

How fortunate that they use our tax dollars to pay for their toys.

Local Cops Ready for War With Homeland Security-Funded Military Weapons

Personally, I have done some stocking up just for hunting purposes. Love that deer and bear. Hope to hunt some elk some day.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:23 | Link to Comment Bobby Lee
Bobby Lee's picture

.223? Pussy! Think .308!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:01 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

308 is good in my sniper rifle but I will take .223 for TEOTWAWKI. There is more of it out there and will be easier to find. Having said that the best solution is to have several thousand rounds of each.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 20:03 | Link to Comment ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

It's about close in guerilla warfare.  .223 on an a4 format and a tactical shotgun loaded with 00buck  is all you need.  Snipers with .308's  won't make any difference when you are being overwhelmed by miscreants on the hunt.  Wake up 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 20:31 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

You don't want to meet me when I am on the hunt....

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 21:39 | Link to Comment Hulk
Hulk's picture

and in heat...

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 10:41 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Bad Hulk, Bad. ;-)

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:24 | Link to Comment Lmo Mutton
Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:24 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Only 54% in the south?  The flood of northern transplants must be screwing up the numbers, its a rare boy in my sons high school that doesnt have at least their own rifle and shotgun- and those are just the kids.  Probably half of the females have their own also.

On second thought most southern types want to shoot them anyway if things get ugly, its probably just as well.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:04 | Link to Comment hognutz
hognutz's picture

Same here in S.C.   LednBrass.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:42 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Heh, thats where I am sir- hidin' out in a quiet corner of the upstate amidst some very solid people.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:30 | Link to Comment non_anon
non_anon's picture

ah, I love porn

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:35 | Link to Comment Spanish Lizard
Spanish Lizard's picture

just did some quick math,

to buy 1000 rounds of 223, 9mm, & 12ga, it costs just shy of $1000...

Got to somehow add this into the budget...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:41 | Link to Comment Barbarians_R_Us
Barbarians_R_Us's picture

Shop around online and I'm sure that $1000 can be whittled down to $600 or $700.

 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:37 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Guns will not protect you from Russian & Chinese nukes raining down on American cities well before "SHTF".

But leaving the country will.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:39 | Link to Comment Barbarians_R_Us
Barbarians_R_Us's picture

Good thing that's only ONE of hundreds of possible scenarios playing out (of which guns are a major factor in most). And leaving the country? Where are you going to run to when its a world wide collapse?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:46 | Link to Comment Sabibaby
Sabibaby's picture

Ok, by-by... Take care... Old people mooch the system too much anyway and would probably end up as Soilant Green if you stayed around here anyway...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:37 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

The infographic is one of those examples where correlation does not imply causation.  Here's what I think is really behind all the gun buying:  The Baby Boomers are padding out their already-large gun collections and there is a generation of young people finally getting decent-paying jobs so they have some disposable income.  Ammo prices jumped when Obama got elected, then fell back somewhat.  They remain sky high because of the wars going on and the high cost of copper, brass, and other cartridge ingredients.  Gas and gold are high for the same reason as ammo--the banksters have no better avenue to steal from us except by forcing us to pay more for the things we need like food and gas.  The remainder of commodities are along for the ride.  Some day soon, the ride is going to end and some big name financial firms are going to crash and burn and no amount of money printing is going to save them.  The rest is just hype, fearmongering, and total bullshit.  The infographic could have just gas prices on there and still make the same point--what the fuck difference does it make what three highly correlated consumer items you put on the chart?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:51 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

If you want to stock ammunition for use and also as potential trade goods, I think that 12 gauge 2.75" shotgun shells are the closest thing to universal ammunition in the US.

If you also want a handgun, get one that will last a hundred years without trouble.  i.e. a stainless steel revolver in 38 special / 357 mag   .  pistols have too many moving parts.

if you live in an area where a rifle makes sense, these 4 cartridges probably constitute more than 50% of all rounds sold in the US:

.30-30 Winchester
.270 Winchester
.30-06 Springfield
7mm Remington Magnum

 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:30 | Link to Comment SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

Best all-round weapon: 12-ga., single-shot, break-action shotgun, 00 buck or slug.  Cheap ($50-75 used), rugged, efficient, reliable, reliable, reliable.  They'll work in 250 years.  They'll cetch you a groundhog for supper, and keep the varmints at bay.  These gee-whiz Rambo guns, with obscure foreign ammo and otherwise, are fine if that's your bag, but they won't be worth much when the springs and pins and other finely-machined doo hickeys go bad.  Another fine piece of equipment is the Louisville Slugger Bat (David Ortiz edition).

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:40 | Link to Comment PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Will Obama and Hillary  gets involved here and stop the Egyptian police from beating to death their own people:

Female protesters brutally beaten with metal poles as vicious soldiers drag girls through streets by their hair in day of shame

By Inderdeep Bains

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:46 | Link to Comment Weimar Ben Bernanke
Weimar Ben Bernanke's picture

One thing I fear is if Obalama wins reelection he will introduce gun control legislation. If Obama gets a second term we will see his TRUE colors. It will be worse. 2012 gun sales will shatter the 2008 gun sales during the Obama hype.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:45 | Link to Comment onearmedlove
onearmedlove's picture

My limited analysis of the situation pointed me in the direction of an item which at the present time is incredibly cheap, yet in a SHTFed world quickly becomes rare yet remains in constant ever-present demand: condoms.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:06 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Condoms expire. Better "rotate" your stock frequently!  :-)

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:44 | Link to Comment And Its Gone
And Its Gone's picture

Ask the Branch Dividians how well guns and ammo work....

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:02 | Link to Comment bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

There were 53 Branch Dividians including women and children.

 

There are 53 MILLION gun owners (registered), and over 450 MILLION (registered) guns in America. Thats more than 1 firearm for every single man, woman and child (including illegals).  

I think this time, we might have them outnumbered, and out gunned. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:05 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Hence their divide and conquer strategy.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:39 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

Damn I agree with you on this one.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:05 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

For fighting the government, you basically have nothing. I think people are buying guns for defense and varmint hunting.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:22 | Link to Comment RobD
RobD's picture

The Dividians first mistake was to underestimate the stupidity of the ATF and there second mistake was to underestimate the ruthlessness of the FBI. They paid for there mistakes and we should learn from them.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:07 | Link to Comment hognutz
hognutz's picture

Show no mercy!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:32 | Link to Comment Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Sticks and stones are still free.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:52 | Link to Comment Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Kind of like Rock, Paper, Sissors.  Gold trumps paper, but a Gun trumps Gold and at least for now Paper will get you a Gun.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:58 | Link to Comment pine_marten
pine_marten's picture

What an abysmal thread.  Our "NeoHops" with their recent firearms purchases are in for a rude awakening if they ever need them in a SHTF scenario.  Avoiding armed confrontations is at the very top of suvival thinking.  This aint Monday night football.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:08 | Link to Comment hognutz
hognutz's picture

Defeatist attitude.  Off to the FEMA camps with you.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:53 | Link to Comment Sabibaby
Sabibaby's picture

Exactly, all these pussy's in AmeriKa who want to Survive and throw their children, people, and country under the bus so they can "Survive" like Indians in a stone age where there aren't any shitters or be told when to shit by LEO, living for a decade or two more and then die anyway. How PATHETIC!!!

They should be the first to go.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:57 | Link to Comment bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

Your all wrong, the USA can default and issue real US NOTES instead of the fake backed by debt nonsense,  and 99.9% of the country will not even notice as long as the NFL games continue(they will) and lady gagas tour isnt canceled (it wont be), 99.8% of people will not notice the change on the money either, and even though 100% of us will pay much less for food/energy/gasoline/etc, until Mohamed from behind the counter at Shell tells you 'Its cuz of the new money! stupid american!' you will shrug and go on being a slave.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:07 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

What would the notes be backed by? You don't think people would come running to the exchange window?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:43 | Link to Comment Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

What would the notes be backed by?...

 

They would be issued to the people of the US backed by the people of the US.  Currently, our FoReigN currency is backed by US issued interest bearing promissory notes.  There is no reason why the US should be paying our future enslavement in the form of interest to a foreign entity.  The US has mints, engaraving facilities and distribution networks that would make the FoReigN slavemasters obsolete and irrelevant with the stroke of a pen.  Kennedy knew it and it cost him his life. 

 

Don't count on our current resident in the WH to take real control of the US sovereignty.  He's still taking orders from the Corzine GS hacks and their minions sucking the sovereignty of the US people through the straws of 401s, algo trading, bifur / hyper-hypothe and other international forni  cation schemes.  imo.  

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:48 | Link to Comment bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

We dont even need to actually default either, just issue the new non debt notes. The current ones would be replaced 1:1 for in country money, and there would be a time limit on exchange, say 1 year.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 23:45 | Link to Comment Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

time limit on exchange, say 1 year...

 

Exactly.  The dates listed on coinage and notes is a functional feature.  In the past, it confirms the issuing agency's verification as to intrinsic and otherwise authentication.  Just like silver certificates issued in the 1950s, all FoReigN currency will be deemed expired at a given date and that's that.  Ain't sovereignty great?  Don't you wish you had some now?  Pretty pathetic we traded it for a bunch of "security" dontcha know?  imo. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:01 | Link to Comment Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

The thing that People forget is that a Gun and ammunition will be able to feed you.  You can hunt Deer, Squirrels, Birds and other animals.

I get a lot of Deer in my backyard.  If I needed to I could shoot one and live for a year on the meat.

So, if I had to chose I would take a Gun and ammunition over Gold any day.  Plus, heaven forbid, if you needed to protect yourself it is also on hand for that as well.

Although, you could use gold as a fishing lure.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:20 | Link to Comment Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Guns can also be used to protect crops.  I remember when I was a little girl (a long time ago) and my Father would take me Ground Hog hunting.  He had Farmers that would let him go onto their Farms and kill the Ground Hogs as they would eat all of the Farmers crops.

So, as we all would in a disaster situation plant gardens, you would need Guns and Bullets to protect your harvest from Animals.  The Animals you killed could be end up being Dinner as well.

He taught me how to shoot a .22 rifle and pellet gun when I was 7 years old.  I was a Marksman in the Rifle Club with those skills. Although, I have never need that skill it is a good skill to have.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:31 | Link to Comment Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

My Father would go Phesant and Deer Hunting every year.  We used to eat quite a few Phesants but he never bagged a Deer.

What is so ironic about that is that now, where I live I have tons of Deer in my back yard.  I have even had them within 5 feet of me while gardening.  They come as close as 10 feet from my House.  All I can think of is all of those years my Dad tried to get a Deer and now I have them all over where I live.  Although, it may be that I love flowers and so do the Deer for a different reason.  They like to eat all of my flowers.  You would think I had a Guchi Salad Bar in the back yard.  Want to bag a Deer take Tulips.  They love them.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:24 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

That's idiotic--how long will all those deer and squirrels last if EVERYONE is out hunting for them?  You're like that guy who says "I don't care about high gas prices because I can bike to work."  Uh, yeah, except everything you NEED comes in on a truck doesn't it?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:55 | Link to Comment Sabibaby
Sabibaby's picture

It will be a bad idea to go walking into neighborhoods you aren't familiar with...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:31 | Link to Comment RobD
RobD's picture

Unfortunately hunting may not be all that great in a SHTF situation. With 300 million hungry people everything will be gone including the animals you would like to eat. That is why you need to have at least a year of food saved up and a safe place to store it, preferably at least 300 to 400miles(one tank of gas for average vehicle) from any major metro area. Even then you will have to be lucky and good to come out the other side.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:40 | Link to Comment Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

I think they will come, as I love animals.  I feed them all the time.  I throw out all of the left over food in the yard for the Ravens ( in the winter when it snows I throw out cat food for them), I give the squirrles sunflower seeds in the winter.  The Deer love the clover in my yard and the flowers I plant (a little to my dismay at times).  But they have to eat too.

The last thing I would want to do is to kill any of them as I am an Animal lover, but if I had to I would to eat.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:10 | Link to Comment hognutz
hognutz's picture

I love animals too..........THEY ARE  DELICIOUS!!!!!!!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 19:45 | Link to Comment Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Anybody touches my dog and they will get filleted and served over a bed of rice pilaf with garlic butter.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 20:35 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Why a blow job on a bed of rice?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 23:19 | Link to Comment ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

@ waterfallsparkles, Benevolent, yet devious. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:56 | Link to Comment Barbarians_R_Us
Barbarians_R_Us's picture

I agree. Animals will "sense" something is up when the human animal world experiences SHTF. Oh, I don't know, maybe the overnight increase of 10,000% of new Elmer Fudds out looking for wabbits (and anything else they can eat) will signal them to hit the high roads. Dumb game will go fast. Smarter game will be nowhere to be found within a couple of weeks.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:19 | Link to Comment Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

I live by a watershed with hundreds of acres of undisturbed land.  They have yearly Deer Hunting to lower the Deer Population.  Plus, you could alway fish in the Watershed and many do even today for dinner.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:42 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

That 300 million is going to come down pretty fast when the Walmart runs out of food.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:09 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

A large chunk of that 300 million are tied up in a fairly small number of geographic areas and composed of people who have been conditioned for their entire lives that someone else will take care of them and provide their needs.  A fairly limited number will live long enough to make it to an area where hunting for food is even an option, and at that point my money is on the locals already living there vs. urban types who wouldnt know what to do with an animal even if they managed to kill it.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:02 | Link to Comment Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

The funny thing is I was looking at guns the other day, Im in the market for a nice rifle + 9mm.

 

Shits bad, it wouldn't be a bad insurance policy.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:19 | Link to Comment Endurus
Endurus's picture

a 9mm rifle is HUGE.. maybe not for a handgun though. :)

Savage Axis is great intro gun... get in 308 or 30-06

Or always reliable winchester lever action 30/30... a bit more pricey.. but it's the gun that won the west.

Or if you are in it for cheap... mosin nagant 91/30... 7.62X54... 100 bucks or so basically anywhere. Ammo is hard to find at box stores.. but you can buy like 800 rounds for like 100 bucks..... solid.. dependable.. a fish could keep that gun clean and functioning. (same round size as AK 47 with bigger jacket and just as dependable)

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:38 | Link to Comment Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

I have been hunting with a Winchester model 70 (pre 64 type action) all my life. I swear by it.  They aren't in business anymore but I have a drop-in-sator on the scope. Zero it at a hundred yards, range the target, dial in the distance, and no need to adjust for distance.

 

.270, .308, and .338 Win Mag are the hunting rifles I use depending on the size of the game.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:09 | Link to Comment Lazane
Lazane's picture

a single unspent 9 mm round found in the aftermath and ruin of the failed Nazi experiment would be barter enough to trade into feeding you and your family for an entire day. stackem up God, gold, guns and cartridges.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:15 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture


As the noise of saber rattling increases in Washington, D.C.,  Jordan Michael Smith’s article on salon.com today, The Media Concensus on Israel Is Collapsing: Across the political spectrum, once-taboo criticism is now common, includes this quote:

“With Hamas and Fatah meeting this week in Cairo, reconciliation between the rival Palestinian political parties is likely only a matter of time. Official U.S. policy holds that Hamas is only a terrorist entity, and any agreement between the two factions jeopardizes continued U.S. aid.  There is reason to believe, however, that more flexible, productive positions will be expressed in the U.S. media. Slowly but unmistakably, space is opening up among the commentariat for new, critical ideas about Israel and its relationship to the United States

“Freedom of this sort was visible in the pages of the New York Times last week. Thomas Friedman, the paper’s foreign affairs columnist, wrote that American leaders were betraying the country by outsourcing their foreign policy to Israel. A standing ovation given to the Israeli prime minister by the U.S. Congress this year was ‘bought and paid for by the Israel lobby,’ he wrote.”

http://www.salon.com/2011/12/21/the_media_consensus_on_israel_is_collapsing/singleton/

 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:48 | Link to Comment dinastar2
dinastar2's picture

Your very stupid citation of Thomas Friedman needs an appropriate answer and here it is :

For decades the NYT columnist Th.Friedman balanced his clear anti-Israel positions with repaeted protestations of love for Israel.His balancing act ended last recently when he employed the classic antisemitic slurs to dismiss the authenticity of the strong American support for Israel. 

The old anti-semitic charge that jewish money buys support for power-hungry jews comes from the russian tsarist police and their forgery protocol of Elders of Zion, recycledd by Mearsheimer -Walt in 2007 in The Israel lobby and US foreign policy.Friedman and you are just pumping some old venom to debase the US Congress 's overwhelming support for Israel.

By endorsing Th.Friedman slurs you belong to a very select group of so-called radical leftists who are PATHOLOGICALLY spiting venom instead of getting a culture about Israel and the Mideast.

I invite you to travel to the MidEast, to learn arabic. hebrew, to read the Bible, the Kuran.Then try at least marginally to feel the atmosphere , the deep hatred for anything that looks like individual freedom for an " enlightened  thinker"  like you .A few wekks in the islamic dungeons will maybe give you food for thought and less venom to spit on Israel.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:22 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

Those were not slurs, those were true statements not always found in Friedman’s columns, but if those truism are not faced, this Superpower is toast.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:17 | Link to Comment PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

"One of those stories comes from a top housing arm overstating sales for multiple years.  Not so much of a shock here but you have to realize that one of the top associations for real estate basically is saying they were off on their bread and butter business for years.  This is like a doctor saying he over diagnosed 15 to 25 percent of his patient with a severe illness."

 

http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/three-dramatic-housing-trends-closing...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:22 | Link to Comment glokk26L
glokk26L's picture

Revolvers are nice but can jam up worse than an autoloader.

Neither one is infallible.

Sure, a revolver being mechanical you have advantage of just another trigger pull with a dud, but if you believe you can't jam one think again.  I had a revolver fire 1/16" out of alignment with the barrel and it jammed up almost completely.

Also, being all mechanical, if it goes out of time, good luck getting it fixed unless you have access to a gunsmith who can do it. 

I can trade most springs and parts on an autoloader, if I have them. With a revolver?  Springs, but hand fitting a part on one?

Same with a lever action rifle.  While handy being mechanical, and thus not dependent on recoil and consistently loaded ammunition, it can take a crap just as easy.

Am thinking that a bolt rifle would be a good idea.  Not many in 7.62x39 but a .223 at least I'd have something I could utilize empty with.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:26 | Link to Comment Peter K
Peter K's picture

"God , guns and guts made America free. We need to keep all three!" is my favorite NRA motto. And while we're on the subject of the Big Guy, the reason He created money is so that His children could buy FOOD and GUNS :)

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:41 | Link to Comment Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

And the only time his son lost his temper was when the money changers were practicing their art of usury in the temple.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:29 | Link to Comment The Count
The Count's picture

I not only have guns to shoot, but I also realized they can be a very good investment. New is box Colt and Smith&Wesson revolvers from the 60-80's are not only beautiful works of machining but also a solid investment. As with anything, you got to do your homework and understand the market before you get into it.

 

 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:29 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Just search for some video clips from the LA riots, or Katrina.

If you want to be in the middle of that kind of clusterphuk w/out a firearm, be my guest.

Timely and important article and topic; thank you.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:35 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Just as an FYI, the NIC checks aren't a particularly good measure of purchases because: (a) they don't count multiple purchases; and (b) you don't even have to get a background check if you have a concealed handgun permit from your respective state...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:38 | Link to Comment pineyard
pineyard's picture

The RIGHT to have ARMS is one of the few remaining "FREEDOMS " in the US .. and ofc FEARED by the POWERS who are .

More important than arms is though to be somehow organized .. as a defence of civil rights cannot be done alone

It doesnt need to be very elaborate .. just a local inititative amongst good normal men to come to each others support should anyone in the local community be bullied/ threatend / searched / attempted arreste by the squadrons of OPPRESSION now in force in the US . One should attempt in such cases to make it COST the Opressor something: publicity / risk of being shotr back at etc

That will make an OPRESSOR think twice unless he is willing to deploy unlimmited force 

Therefore LOCAL ORGANISATION ... is very important

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:28 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Thank God for the internet because we have clearly given up the freedom of the press.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:39 | Link to Comment Mr_Wonderful
Mr_Wonderful's picture

Now seeding

Chasing Goldman Sachs: How the Masters of the Universe Melted Wall Street Down...And Why They'll Take Us to the Brink Again

 

http://tinyurl.com/82svak5

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:42 | Link to Comment ArgentDawn
ArgentDawn's picture

I love articles like these, they draw out the best comments. Sometimes I think the comments create an interesting discussion, and I enjoy reading them all. (Not sarcastic)

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:05 | Link to Comment earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

ron paul should openly question mitt romney on gun control.

mitt is very ambiguous - for and against in the past, whereas newt is a gun advocate as is ron.

obama is definitely for gun control as others have mentioned on this board - if reelected for a second term will definitely initiate laws banning  handguns or other types of self defense weapons outright ---  through a methodically well planned draft, drawn up in 2010. shamelessly waiting to get dusted-off for immediate enactment,... if, and only if, he wins!  pathetic is he, no other words.

it is imperative to get obama, voted  out of office, period!

ron paul has his mojo going for him with all the negative press lately gaining a boatload of 'contrarian positive-feedback' , eg. no smoking for you - no alcohol for you - no dancing with the stars for you, etc., etc., and especially no bogarts 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:01 | Link to Comment Burticus
Burticus's picture

Remember, you don't run out of guns, you run out of ammo.

Diversify your precious metals portfolio to include steel and lead, "the other white metal".

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:07 | Link to Comment Endurus
Endurus's picture

As others have stated... we would prefer a peacful return of our liberties.... but history has shown time and time again that doesn't happen.

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" -Patrick Henry

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:09 | Link to Comment pakled
pakled's picture

just to be claer, frivilous on

I'm trying to think of the name of that old movie where Charles Bronson holes up in the basement of a house in the woods and holds off Lee Marvin and a bunch of trigger happy yahooos for hours. Or was it days? And didn't Bronson pretty much lay waste to the entire team? He just kept popping up from nowhere and picked em off. Love that movie.

 

Of counrse it helps to have a script on your side......

 

/frivilous

Hope to God we will all be spared the tough choices being discussed here.

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 09:06 | Link to Comment pacosan
Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:16 | Link to Comment Eatabanker
Eatabanker's picture

Left the US, bought a small farm on south Island, New Zealand.
Spring creek, freshest air, organic garden & cash crop. Excellent old fashioned community of retired professionals & transgenerational locals all cooperating to the common good. No handguns or big bore artillery necessary.

It's almost unreal. Leaving was the wisest choice I made in over 60 years. Social security, Medicaid gone, but so is the IRS and global Gestapo.
No place is perfect, but some places are more user frriwndly than others. Small communities are where the future lies. Less talk, more coordinated action. Good luck to all.

Eatabanker

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 00:22 | Link to Comment Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

Welcome to NZ, eatabanker! Voting with your feet has its rewards. I came here 20 years ago- fell in love with the South Island too.

Other good destinations would be countries that are still in development, such as the Philippines (advantage =English speaking), where as American you can contribute to the country. Where governments have less resources, they leave the citizen more freedom.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:17 | Link to Comment mendolover
mendolover's picture

Great piece.  Fear and racism?  Bullshit.  It's on people.  Wake the hell up!  I was thinking this way back in '09.  Remember what happened that year?  Yes the sheeple of the USA inaugurated a Marxist and still people are asleep.  Sawing away on those logs. Anyway, I found this article this AM before I saw it here.  I think that means I've finally 'woken up'.  Merry Christmas!!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:12 | Link to Comment hognutz
hognutz's picture

Merry Christmas &  MOLON LABE!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:25 | Link to Comment onlooker
onlooker's picture

 

 

So let me, as a gun collector of 60 years, ask a question. We may be the largest armed civilian population in the world and maybe in world history (using fire power as the yard stick).

 

How come we have been at the wrong end of the largest robbery in history of our fortunes, jobs, and maybe personal privacy and rights? Why do our children face a lost decade?

 

Did your Clint Eastwood 44 magnum keep your grocery store dollar from loosing 40% of its value? Did it keep an economy for your child, who is graduating, stable and growing so that he/she can get a job? Has it given you the transparency in government and the financial systems that control your lives? Has it restored honesty to anything? Did it keep our jobs?

 

It may be that part of the reason for increased buying of firearms is because of the apparent unraveling of our society and this is the only reaction that is quick and simple—giving some sense of security.

 

I do not argue against some double ought or SS109 or a couple of bricks of 22 for events like the Watts Riots, or natural disasters that cause chaos. But if you do not have 100 gallons of water stored and a couple of weeks of food and proper meds stored, you miss most of the “what if” scenario.  A full gas tank and a couple of hundred dollars in singles and 5s may be a lot more important than another black gun.

 

BUT, the most important thing is your participation in our Government BY the People.

 

You need to FIGHT now with education, pushing the lawmakers, getting involved and knowing what the hell is happening.  VOTE, vote smart. Stay involved, keep up the real battle that is right now, involvement. One person can make a difference. A bunch has a better chance. But it all starts with one and that is you. Help your Nation.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:38 | Link to Comment jomama
jomama's picture

How come we have been at the wrong end of the largest robbery in history of our fortunes, jobs, and maybe personal privacy and rights? Why do our children face a lost decade?

 

simple, everyone is chasing that FICO score - aka - carrot on a stick!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:34 | Link to Comment TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

Silver is the new silver.

TheSilverJournal.com

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:39 | Link to Comment TSA gropee
TSA gropee's picture

As I've read some of the posts here I can see there are some unfair comparisons being made and I think that not everyone is commenting about the same scenario with regards to the SHTF. While there are an infinite number of scenarios that could occur they can be more or less grouped into two. One scenario would be that the "normal" societal structure has collapsed due to whatever and enforced rule of law is no longer and the other is a scenario where a government has gone completely rogue and are rounding up its citizens under some kind of pretense whether factual or not. I will only address the first in some depth and the latter only superficially.

If a government goes rogue and either martial law is instituted, or forced vaccinations or whatever and are rounding up those who don't comply, direct confrontation is suicidal. In this case and IMHO, an exit stage left strategy is in order. In a Katrina or LA riot situation, personal or family defense falls upon the leader of the home.  Obviously, a diplomatic solution would be preferred, but, and as we've seen with the recent Black Friday madness, it doesn't take much for people to act violently when risk or accountability is minimized or non-existent by any given circumstance. This is the scenario where it makes most sense to be prepared, and where having adequate defense or even deterrence makes sense.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some. When someone carries a gun, you cannot deal with them by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade them, because they have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.
The firearm is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.
People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.
People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.
Great first hand account of a severe SHTF situation that lasted one year. http://www.tacticalintelligence.net/blog/shtf-survival-qa-a-first-hand-account.htm

 


 

 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:51 | Link to Comment SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

Sort of.  Actually, it greatly raises the stakes for the attacker, making an attack less likely.  Also, for people who argue that the presence of a firearm raises the potential for injury, my reply is this: the safety of the innocent is to be preferred over the health of the assailant.

If a government goes rogue and either martial law is instituted, or forced vaccinations or whatever and are rounding up those who don't comply, direct confrontation is suicidal.

Given NDAA, no more suicidal than meek compliance.  Choose how you will live this day.  Is endless detention something anyone would call "life?"

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 15:42 | Link to Comment DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

Like the Marine sargeant CMH recipient in WWI asked/told his guys: "You sons-of-bitches want to live forever?"  That's the important question. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:41 | Link to Comment Franktastic
Franktastic's picture

If ammo and guns are the new Gold...then am RICH!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:42 | Link to Comment redux2redux
redux2redux's picture

Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a government agency!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:45 | Link to Comment swani
swani's picture

Uday Hussain had the right idea with that gold gun collection.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:48 | Link to Comment Franktastic
Franktastic's picture

At one point there were thinking (TPTB) of putting a self life on ammo, not sure if they went through with it...

The best and cheapest sniper rifle out there is the old Russian mosin nagant m91 30, can be had for little over a 100$ at big five when on sale and ammo is cheap. Can hit a man size standing target with open sites from 300+ yards, yeah it jams after 15-20 shots, let cool down and ur at it again.

 

Every one loves to shoot it.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:51 | Link to Comment BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Core-lokt  .308's are only ~28.00 per 20 box in Canada?  Could that last price for the .223's be kind of a high quote?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:58 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

maybe you are looking at Barnes Prices.. those are not ready to shooot bullets.. you still need brass, primers and powder.

 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:01 | Link to Comment Jreb
Jreb's picture

Remington Ammo in 308 win Core lokts generally run around $20.00 per box in Canukistan.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:56 | Link to Comment Money 4 Nothing
Money 4 Nothing's picture

Bullets and beans bitchezz.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:00 | Link to Comment Jreb
Jreb's picture

Love gun talk. I like the statistic that shows if you have a gun in the house you are something like 70% likely to have it used agianst you during a break in or home invasion. I would argue that without a gun in th house you are 100% likely to become a victim of the next guy who decides he will make you one.

I think the latter theory might be better odds of survival acutally. I'd rather live with the 70% chance of being shot with my own toy vs 100% odds of being some angry jack booted thugs bitch at 1:00 in the morning. Just a thought...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 20:16 | Link to Comment Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

If a perp gets past my rotty and all the way upstairs and in the door to my room without me waking, I'd be impressed.  The 70% statistic is like most statistics.  Absurd lies.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:00 | Link to Comment HileTroy
HileTroy's picture

No Sir I did the job for 1990-94 then became a heavey weapons instructor I was responding to the "trained professional" comment.

 As for your comment on day to day life  the only way we survive this is back to the community and local lv. I assure you Sir that I have no love for what is to come. Men will have to come and help defend the less prepared.  I have no reason to brag it was a statement, Ranger school is more about LEADERSHIP then about being John Rambo. 

The time to plan is now. Hope is a bad bussiness plan. I suggest you read CD post its was thought provoking to say the least. It never hurts to have some food storage and emergency supplies on hand. In the long run a more productive economy will have to emerge. After a period of Chaos.

Hard men last hard times don't.

 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 20:18 | Link to Comment Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

I split into buckets 300 pounds of wheat berries tonight and have 3K in silver on the way in the mail.  Man am I sleeping like a baby these days.  Stress?  I don't know it.  Every day that passes is another day better prepped.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:01 | Link to Comment HileTroy
HileTroy's picture

dubble post

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:09 | Link to Comment hawks5999
hawks5999's picture

lead bitchezz

 

I can't believe that comment wasn't made in the first 550 comments...

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