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Infographic: Is Gold A Bubble?

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Yes, another infographic, and yes, another answer (always the same) on whether gold is a bubble.

Courtesy of bullioninternational.com


 


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Thu, 03/01/2012 - 22:46 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

It's not in a bubble... It's in a "BAUBLE"... (get your facts straight)...

Sincerely,

Nouriel Roubini

 

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:02 | Link to Comment ACP
ACP's picture

I like the "Central Banks Have Turned Net Buyers" graph.

Buy high sell low. Shows how stupid these banker academics really are.

 

But then again...at this point, the money printing cannot stop until the financial system implodes...

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:10 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
Fri, 03/02/2012 - 00:18 | Link to Comment engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

 

everybody knows that a taco is worth at least 2 ounces of Gold

 No one would be fooled by that trick

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 00:51 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Roubini, what an idiot.  I remember him 2 years ago saying the current stock market rally was a "sauckers rally".  Then last year he jumped in with both feet.  Oops.  A little bit Dennis Gartmanish?

Some of those "economists" just like to hear themselves, like a dog that barks into the darkness.  People hear it, but no one is listening.

 

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 03:08 | Link to Comment SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Lord, I hate sauchers rallies. They're so, I don't know; "popular" or something.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 03:31 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Agreed. 

I like Saucher torte though.

But flying sauchers scare the bejeesus out of me.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 01:04 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

I've argued with you about this clip before. Of course a cashier at a chain won't accept a gold coin for a taco. They don't want trouble, they just want a FRN that fits in the cash register.

Take that same coin to an owner of a taco truck, and you'll get a years worth of tacos.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 02:14 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I don't understand your argument.

The experiment clearly shows the depths of how clueless people are regarding the value of gold.

If you were her, would you have given him $49.01 in change in the form of FRNs and paid for the taco yourself with a FRN out of your pocket?

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 03:06 | Link to Comment SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Congratulations; you are a modern citizen. You have avoided the entire question and the lesson contained therein by falling back to the uber-modern model; what is your opinion? It doesn't matter what the opinion of the individual idiot is.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 03:33 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

It would appear you're addressing me.

If so, your point is logically flawed.

I am aware of the value of the gold eagle in question, and would have gladly given the man $49.01 in FRN change, paying for his taco with 99 cents from my own pocket (assuming I was dishonest, which did not appear to be the reason why the clerk declined to take said gold eagle in the video; in fact, she appeared to have absolutely no clue as to its value, and was relieved when he whipped out his BenankBuck).

Am I in the distinct minority or majority of individuals?

If you assume that I'm in the distinct minority of individuals, then you are necessarily conceding that the majority of the population lacks any fundamental understanding of the value of an American Gold Eagle.

If that's the case, how can it be argued that the mania historically associated with bubbles has begun, let alone peaked?

 

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 08:57 | Link to Comment Acet
Acet's picture

There are a couple of flaws in that "experiment" and in trying to extrapolate it's results to the wider US population:

 

  1. Even if she recognized the coin, she had no easy way of knowing for sure the coin was real gold. Given her job, she probably gets paid peanuts, so for her, risking $50 (the $0.99 she had to pay Taco Bell and the $49.01 she had to give as change) in what might very well just be a scam is a big thing.
  2. She works in one of the lowest paid jobs there is. How likelly it is that she ever saved enough money to have even considered putting her (likelly) meagre savings in gold and thus how likelly is it that she ever tried to learn about gold coins? That person is hardly representative of the kind of persons whose savings are high enough that gold is a viable option for wealth preservation.

While I do suspect that most people know very little about gold (mosty because most people don't have enough savings to be able to afford it), that specific experiment was designed to have that specific result:

  • A proper experimental setup using randomly select people would be much more likelly result in him loosing a 1 ounce gold gold coin and getting $50.

 

 

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 12:17 | Link to Comment donsluck
donsluck's picture

Personally, I think this clip is a useful, if experimentally flawed, illustration of the emotional risk/reward calculation. Her risk was about $50. Her reward was potentially $1,400. She could have spent a few seconds feeling the weight of the coin in her hand and observing it's fine workmanship (the golden eagle is one of the world's most beautiful coins). It is obviously not a toy.

This reveals the source of poverty. You must take risk. Opportunity truly knocks ONCE. Not knock, knock, knock. It's just...knock.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:22 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

If you were her, would you have given him $49.01 in change in the form of FRNs and paid for the taco yourself with a FRN out of your pocket?
_______________________________________________

The speculative prospect of such move has to be good because it is a fire cause for anyone trying this.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:30 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

The stupidity of your comment is so severe that it doesn't deserve a specific response.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:46 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Really? So refraining from moves that will cost you your job, in an environment where unemployment is rising, is stupid?

What you are calling for is a book keeping manipulation through the cash register, an operation clerks usually have no authority for.

Pocketing the gold coin for yourself while filling the gap with your own money is theft as you use the property of the store to speculate.

Indeed, the hope is stupidity, that the management is stupid enough to let those kind of moves slip through.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:49 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

I am the Great Stoolman Mousy Tongue, running dog imperialist and warmonger extraordinaire, and I approve this Chinese citizenism message.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 05:37 | Link to Comment zhandax
zhandax's picture

Hey dumbass, they are given a till at start of shift and it is counted at end of shift.  This corporate 'merica.  Nobody cares what happens in between as long as the end of shift till tally's with the register and none of the customers complain. 

As soon as someone official starts raising hell about MF Global misplacing $1.5 billion, come back and try again.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 05:38 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

You're forgetting that Anymouse is a Chinese citizen and a docile sheep and subject of a totalitarian regime, and as such it is beyond his grasp to fathom doing anything that is neither expressly forbidden nor usual in his controlled, conformist, cowed society.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 06:01 | Link to Comment zhandax
zhandax's picture

OK, I tend to speed read the comments section, and blink past the bag people, so now that I know who Ananonymous is, I can keep this in mind.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 08:49 | Link to Comment Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

zhandax said:

 

As soon as someone official starts raising hell about MF Global misplacing $1.5 billion, come back and try again.

 

 

They are "struggling" to find criminality...

 

Doubtful Signs of a Criminal Case Against MF Global

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/02/28/doubtful-signs-of-a-criminal-case...

 

Indeed, a number of federal prosecutors have expressed doubts to others involved in the case that anyone at MF Global — including the firm’s chief executive, Jon S. Corzine, and back-office employees in Chicago — intentionally misused customer money, said people involved in the case who were not authorized to speak publicly about the investigation.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 07:08 | Link to Comment Confused
Confused's picture

Gold coin is worth losing that job. Lets face it. Its probably worth more than the monthly pay.....

 

.....soon to be worth more than the yearly salary. 

 

;-P 

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:41 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

The speculative prospect of such move has to be good because it is a fire cause for anyone trying this.

Severely molten parsley computers, longing for draconian Chinese citizenism hot worm portfolios, will forever squeeze blue hurtful penny calm under all enslaved chrome apples, banishing corrugated eggplant sodomy six times.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:46 | Link to Comment Likstane
Likstane's picture

Just you because him don't the understand the language, doesn't mock is re-apprpriate enough...jerk

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:50 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

He known troll, raging anti-American bigot, deserve all he get in nastiness, should be shot by Chinese firing squad for incompetent trolling.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:52 | Link to Comment Likstane
Likstane's picture

oh...sorry

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:59 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

raging anti-American bigot,

_______________________________________________

Apparently, US citizens do not appreciate much debates of ideas.

Outlining a set of beliegs is now being raging anti something bigot, ah, well...

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 05:22 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

I am the Great Stoolman Mousy Tongue, destroyer of freedom, hater of all round-eyed foreign devils, rampant anti-American bigot and outliner of beliegs, and I approve this Chinese citizenism message.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 06:02 | Link to Comment Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Hey any mouse leave the beli egs alone they are a protected species.
No poaching from the wild tut tut.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 11:03 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

@TIS - pocketing the coin would be theft (she's appropriating her employers benefits) and I'd bet they'd prosecute her. If she puts it in the till she's benefiting her employer but risking the coin being a fraud - which maybe she gets fired for. And I don't know store operations, but I bet she's recorded on a security camera. So she risks prosecution or termination with no reference. And you think this is a fair trial?

Take that coin to the owner of a taco truck. Spend some time with them, and I'll bet you'll come away with a fair value barter at least half the time.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 10:14 | Link to Comment flacon
flacon's picture

Mark Dice is the bomb! :)

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 13:45 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

lizzy36 

I am a jew.

I come from a large family of Eastern European Jews.

Some observant, some not.

NONE OF US LEARNED THIS CRAP.

It is racist, anst-semtic, 3rd reich scapegoating, CRAP.

I believe in free speech. I try and stay out of ignorant, racist, lowest common denominator debates. However, if i believe that the debate has become disrespectful, to Zerohedge and what it stands for, i will have the debate temporarily halted. That is not a threat, it is a statement.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/next-leg-ponzi-revealed-central-banks-begin-buying-us-stocks-outright-starting-today#comment-2215694

 

Let that be a Lesson to ALL! of You Goy Slaves! It is a Statement! of Authority!

Freedom of Speech!

And Censorship of the Truth!

Are at her finger tips!

 

Honestly! You Goy Slaves should have known better than to Anger Your Owner Lizzy!

 

If this sounds familiar! Here is why! Barbra Specter and Lizzy have that same “Jewish Authority over the Rest of us Goys!” We Goys can be silenced whenever it suits our Jewish Masters! And that is NOT! a Threat.. Per Lizzy! That is a Statement! See the video below and see if you can as well recognize the similarity between Barbra and Lizzy? Maybe Lizzy is Barbra? Who knows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2Vq_e2Z1ug

 

and for those of you wanting to know.. TruthInSunshine

 shares these views of Lizzy’s! and backs up Lizzy’s power to Silence the Goy Slaves! Truth be Damned!

 

Given the Fact that Lizzy has used Lobby Dollars with Tyler.. to provide herself with a Bully pulpit! And of course more sway than the rest of us.. Because of the Lobby Dollars.. I would implore you Goy Slaves to behave.. shy away from the Facts and the Truth for fear of being politically incorrect by AIPAC’s Standards!

 

It should be as well noted that Tyler has been threatened with a Law Suit for Liable! By the Jewish Lobby here at ZeroHedge!

 

The Truth it seems will not set you free! With regard to your Jewish Owners!

 

Let this be a lesson to ALL of You Goy Slaves!

 

Let us ALL! try to NOT! get Tyler or Fight Club in any Trouble.. even if the FACTS! Are being put forth for discussion!

 

Thank You for Your Time!

 

P.S. You will notice that 50,000 plus reads and over 600 comments later that Lizzy Allowed the Goy Slaves to have their Rant! LULZ!!

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 14:42 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

JW, you're free to say whatever you want on ZH, as it's one of the few uncensored forums around, which I actually appreciate (I'm very much a fan of free speech), but you really lessen your personal credibility by mistating what others have written and by digging so deep down the conspiracy well.

The irony is that, unlike your confused paranoia, I am able to separate jews from the Israeli Government (criticizing Israeli Government policy often and vehemently), and judge people on their individual qualities, rather than assume incredible things about individuals who I've never met nor had a chance to converse with. I sure do hope that I'm not individually blamed for all the unjust and inherently flawed policies of the government that legislates the land where I was born; guilt by association.

But feel free to keep spamming the forums with all manner of tripe, in bulk mail and rambling fashion.

p.s. - I'd love to see your claims about Tyler/ZH being threatened with a lawsuit by the "jewish lobby" or Lizzy somehow managing ZH's actions, or "Lizzy putting up lobby money with Tyler," something or other. Put up or shut up - now is the time to prove your credibility (or not).

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 14:04 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

I quoted Lizzy.. that is not what I said.. it is what she said.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/next-leg-ponzi-revealed-central-banks-begin-buying-us-stocks-outright-starting-today#comment-2215694

Tyler himself said he was under threat of Law Suit from the JEWS!

Only Sourced and Sited Material is ALLOWED when discussing the JEWS! no personal opinions what so ever!

 

So what do you mean put up or shut up you coward?

P.S. I would really love to meet you face to face. So YOU! can put up or shut up!

 

 

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:25 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

ISRAEL ATTACKS IRAN * Latest * FKN Newz Mar 1st 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoGpua2sS5s&feature=context&context=G2d6a4bdFAAAAAAAAOAA

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 00:29 | Link to Comment SubjectivObject
SubjectivObject's picture

.... you got to have some fun before you die ......

 

Fab

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 03:04 | Link to Comment SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Well, no you don't, actually. I know several people who never had any fun before they died. But it seems like a worthwhile project to try to have some fun before you die. Of course, this may be merely "living" predjudice.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:38 | Link to Comment ultimate warrior
ultimate warrior's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co0WmN_0piw&feature=player_embedded#!

Don’t give yourselves to these unnatural men, machine men, with machine minds and machine hearts. You are not machines. You are not cattle. You are men. You have the love of humanity in your hearts. You don’t hate – only the unloved hate. Only the unloved and the unnatural. Soldiers – don’t fight for slavery, fight for liberty.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 01:35 | Link to Comment rich_wicks
rich_wicks's picture

Bankers want to cause inflation.

What better way to do it than to drive the price of gold up and intentionally creating a bubble in gold?

I don't think we're in a bubble for gold yet, not by a long shot, but we will be.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 03:01 | Link to Comment SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

This is indeed, very likely. The circumstances and the price behaviours; will, as they say, "blow your mind".

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 06:04 | Link to Comment tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

Last night I thought of a song for my football (soccer) team. Our official song is 'I'm forever blowing bubbles' see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvuOtlpSAeY and came up with this. "ONE SONG! We've only got one song, Gold and Silver going gone, blowing bubbles all day long! Wuuuuuuuun Song we've only got one song!"

Gold and silver are not yet in a bubble but if 70000 fans start to sing this every Saturday it soon will be!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:08 | Link to Comment palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

China says it's a blobble.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:29 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Being a blobble is the eternal nature of Universal citizenism gold.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:46 | Link to Comment palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Do you think there's any chance they're going to remove the suicide net from his dormitory?

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:53 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Dormitory, sweatshop, prison, re-education camp ---- such concepts are both fluid and essentially interchangeable  in the People's Republic of Nose-Picking and Blobbing-Up.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:51 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Ah convenient exterior.

Can US citizenism exist by itself?

It is a capital question when you factor in the fact that US citizen is meant to be universal and global.

So as US citizenism spreads, it eliminates its exterior.

What will happen when the exterior no longer exists?

The answer is already known as US citizen draw a world of quasi certainty.

When the world population in its majority follows US citizenism, the world population will split in true US citizens and false US citizens, proper followers of US citizens and the others, the deviant ones.

True scotsman fallacy type.

US world order is such that the future has to be better tomorrow.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:55 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

I am the Great Stoolman Mousy Tongue, renowned public nose-picker, psychopath and sexual deviant, and I approve this Chinese citizenism message.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 12:57 | Link to Comment viahj
viahj's picture

oh man, go easy on our Chicom poster seeing how he/she has probably been contaminated...so when he/she talks of "US Citizenism" he/she has the moral high ground [/sarc]

-In China, 80 percent of the major rivers have become so horribly polluted that they do not support any aquatic life at all at this point and 90 percent of all groundwater systems under major cities in China are contaminated.  http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:15 | Link to Comment Every Third Word
Every Third Word's picture

The only gold thing Nouriel has was was likely pawned, er, sold, long ago.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 01:40 | Link to Comment tobinajwels
tobinajwels's picture

Ask Roubini how can gold be a bubble when helicopter ben says he's leaving intetest rates unchanged for 3 years? Were else to put one's money a matress can be lumpy!!

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 03:10 | Link to Comment SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

And don't forget, this is the internet blog for intelligent people; if that doesn't make you depressed, nothing will.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 03:54 | Link to Comment JennaChick
JennaChick's picture

Is crude oil going to hit 150 today and gold 2500??? http://www.armadamarkets.com/2012/03/saudi_explosion_wti_crude_oil_fire/

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 12:28 | Link to Comment In Fed We Trust
In Fed We Trust's picture

Tyler,

You keep posting bullshit, spin doctor pieces as this :

9/11 Commissioner and Co-Chair of Congressional Inquiry into 9/11 Say in Sworn Declarations that Saudi Government Linked to 9/11

I will make it my full time job exposing you as a fraud/spin doctor.

Lord knows you would never put uip this link

http://www.RealZionistsNews.com

 

 

 

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 12:29 | Link to Comment In Fed We Trust
In Fed We Trust's picture

In Fact I am almost convinced that Tyler is NOT the same Tyler that of 6 months ago?

Anyone feel the same way?

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 22:48 | Link to Comment jomama
jomama's picture

you guys are in fine form tonight

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 22:52 | Link to Comment Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

I don't see a graph showing its edibility.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 22:59 | Link to Comment Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

It's been used to barter for edibles, goods, and services for 5,000 yrs.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:08 | Link to Comment Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

Sarcasm on my part making fun of the first thing anti-gold people say.  They conveniently forget you can't eat digits, treasuries or shares.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 01:06 | Link to Comment Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

But, but, but, Graeber.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:12 | Link to Comment GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

Same goes for crude oil, guns, ammo, cars, houses, etc.

In the past the guy with the most gold owned the land and usually the people who grew the food on the land for him.

If we move so fast to a calorie economy that gold as money is no longer useful, all bets are off an anything you could possibly do or own now that would help you stay alive through such a collapse. Even stored food and and water will just make you the target of those who don't have them.

Personally, I'm trusting the majority of people to maintain their humanity as things fall apart. The ones who will cause trouble will likely be taken out first, unlike the current predatory situation in which the jerk are rewarded. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing cooperation will win over the screw you I've got mine, dog-eat-dog mentality so many seem to have on these boards (usually the more conservative types). I hope we don't have to find out, but if we do, then I'll deal with it. I'm not going to worry about it now, but I'll keep my spider sense in tune.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 00:30 | Link to Comment engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Agreed, but we'll know for sure pretty soon because the 100 yr gas price chart is now shooting straight up. It currently requires almost a gallon of gas to extract a gallon of gas from the earth. Once we hit an exact 1:1 ratio we're in deep deep deep manure. What price will gas be then? $100 a gallon? $1000 a gallon?

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 01:25 | Link to Comment tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

Very good point. Along the same lines what happens to unemployment when it costs more for a gallon of gas to get to work than you make at work to pay for that gas?

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 02:55 | Link to Comment SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

You;re an innumerate moron; they're dealing with $9.00 a gallon gas in Europe every day. You don;t work for only an hour, fool.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 08:40 | Link to Comment A82EBA
A82EBA's picture

lol plus 1 dang :))

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 11:24 | Link to Comment tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

Read what I wrote one more time... I'm aware that gas is higher in price in Europe than in the U.S. but that's not what I was referring to in my comment. When did I say people only work an hour? Jesus Christ. Read before start masturbating to your SAT score and vomit all over your keyboard.

And what the fuck is wrong with your single quote key?

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 01:25 | Link to Comment GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

But, but, but.....the abiotic oil crowd claims there's abundant oil and gas on the Earth. Gee, I guess the idea of diminishing easy access to all of that endless oil might be a problem. Careful about throwing out these EROEI statements or they'll start calling you a Peak Oiler.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 02:57 | Link to Comment SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Silence, idiot. It doesn't require any "Gas" to extract "Gas" from the Earth. "Gas" is a manufactured product; which is a part of the refinery run of crude oil.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 09:57 | Link to Comment prole
prole's picture

Obviously 800 was your combined score

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 03:36 | Link to Comment RmcAZ
RmcAZ's picture

Interesting... do you have a source for this info? Thanks.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 01:10 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

"Personally, I'm trusting the majority of people to maintain their humanity as things fall apart."

Heck, you can test your theory TODAY!  Leave the doors to your house (and any other building- shop etc) wide open (no dogs, or anything) and take off for the day.  If when you come back and no one has messed with your property then you MIGHT have a chance with that "trust" approach.

 

"I hope we don't have to find out, but if we do, then I'll deal with it."

Yeah, sometimes it's easy to rationalize not doing anything...  Expect what you plan for...  If you fail to plan they you plan to fail.

BTW - Derrick Jensen and one of his audiences came up with an excellent definition of "hope:" It's the desire for an outcome over which you have no agency.

 

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 02:13 | Link to Comment GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

To a degree your idea about testing that idea is correct about today's society. However, in several places across the country you could do just that because your neighbors would do the humane thing and help you by watching your stuff for you. That's the humanity I am talking about. Although, the more I read these various message boards it appears I need to just accept that everyone's an asshole out to screw me over at every opportunity, then they go to church on Sunday to rid themselves of any guilt.

Hope, beliefs, faith all share that same definition. I gave up on beliefs and faith long ago.

As for hope, I've heard Derrick Jensen's and other definitions of hope and for the most part I agree. However, even though we all may want to pretend we're strictly reality-based hardasses, most people I know hold out hope every day. They hope it doesn't rain and ruin their golf game. They hope that guy screaming up to the intersection they just entered doesn't run the stop sign. They hope the office asshole doesn't talk to them today. They hope they get the cute waitress at the restaurant today. People also hope to one day own a nice home and that hope makes them start saving, etc...  I see it as a failure of the language and my mistake for using the word.

I realize hope isn't cool in this cynical world we live in, but I do hope I can provide a better life for my son, and I take action in that direction. Sure, a million things beyond my control and the control of all of humanity could throw a wrench in that "hope" but I'll just have to adjust course and keep moving forward. To me that's how life has worked for countless centuries.

Also, I didn't say I wasn't prepared. But I also know that reality doesn't unfold in the same manner as our plans. I am fully aware of the "I'm gonna get mine, screw you" mentality that permeates our culture. But there are a lot of people here who are decent and humane. I will do my best to see that the latter prevail.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 07:20 | Link to Comment spankfish
spankfish's picture

I'm glad I let everyone know up front I am a seven day sinner.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:28 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Personally, I'm trusting the majority of people to maintain their humanity as things fall apart. The ones who will cause trouble will likely be taken out first, unlike the current predatory situation in which the jerk are rewarded.

__________________________________________

Ah, you can trust US citizens to maintain their nature because US citizen nature is eternal.

As to dealing with predators, well, predators will be seen through the scope of US citizenism which leads to quite a distorted self perception.

You can count on US citizens to patrol their hard earned property just the same way they did during the war pretendedly fought for freedom, when US citizens patrolled the plantations to prevent slaves escapes. It was not like slaves lacked freedom.

It would be very surprising indeed if US citizens lost their nature.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:42 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

I am the Great Stoolman Mousy Tongue, enslaver of Tibet and murderer of tens of millions, and I approve this Chinese citizenism message.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:53 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Upgrade, move to US citizenism.

You will murder and enslave much more people.

The only horizon is the number of human beings peopling the Earth.

Be ambitious, switch to US citizenism, it will suit your needs better.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:57 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

I am the Great Stoolman Mousy Tongue, enslaver of Tibet and destroyer of thousands of historical sites and artifacts in the misbegotten and psychotic "Cultural Revolution", and I approve this Chinese citizenism message.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 05:01 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Mount Rushmore? Does it ring a bell?

US citizenism is spreading in China so yes, it has consequences.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 05:08 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

I am the Great Stoolman Mousy Tongue, babbler of inanities and disseminator of non sequiturs, and I approve this Chinese citizenism message.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 08:57 | Link to Comment Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

 

"I don't see a graph showing its edibility."

 

However, with proper seasoning fractional Fed Reserve Notes are quite delicious.

 

 

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 22:52 | Link to Comment urbanelf
urbanelf's picture

Me: OK, I've given you arguments as to why it's not in a bubble.  Why do you think it is?

Everyone I fucking know: Because the price went up!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:04 | Link to Comment mr. mirbach
mr. mirbach's picture

Right the price went up in terms of fiat currencies BUT the value has remained stable since the dawn of man.

 

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 01:55 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

"the value has remained stable since the dawn of man."

Clearly this is a trek down the hyperbole road.  I highly doubt that as soon as "man" appeared that he KNEW of the value of gold.

Also, what IF there was only ONE ounce of gold on the planet, what would IT's value be?  I guess that this question goes to the matter of what effects extraction has on value.  If you said that it's been stable since day one then that would mean that extraction has NO affect on value.  There seems to be a bit of a disconnect here.

Sadly, given that only 1% of the world's population (or is it 1% of all "wealth?") has gold, then I'd think that the other 99% wouldn't be wanting to establish a system based on something that they don't have.

NOTE: Just a couple of things that seem problematic.  I still concur that gold/PMs are grounded in reality, whereas fiat is not: fiat WILL self-destruct.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:29 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Fiat, hard currency, none resisted US citizen economics which is based on consumption.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:44 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

As opposed to Chinese citizenism economics, which is based on poisoned pet food, lead-coated childrens' toys, toxic infant formula, plastic rice, public nose picking and roadside shitting.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:55 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

http://www.truth-out.org/chinese-fascisms-global-consequences/1327694358

-------------------------------------

Article on US citizenism spreading in China.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 05:00 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Article on Chinese citizenism spreading throughout the world:

http://www.StoolmanMousyTongueEatsDirtyDiapers.com/

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 05:03 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

That is a nice world of fantasy you are building here.

Unable to connect with reality...

Dont worry, there are still billions of people out there in the real world to endure for you the cost of your life of denial.

You'll be dead before the stock runs out so you can keep playing your game as long as you want.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 05:11 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

I am the Great Stoolman Mousy Tongue ... and how DARE you interrupt me while shitting on the side of the road as I promote my Chinese citizenism!

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 10:02 | Link to Comment prole
prole's picture

You had me at "poisoned pet food"

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:05 | Link to Comment AmazingLarry
AmazingLarry's picture

Told you not to talk to everyone you fucking know. Incidiently, we must fucking know the same people.

 

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 00:55 | Link to Comment Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

I would tell your stupid friends that the easist way to spot a bubble is look at where credit is expanding in a market. Take the Nasdaq, it went up relentlessly because of 401k's. Housing went up because of fair housing act and supressed interest rates. College tution goes up because of student loans, Health care goes up because of social programs and insurance being untaxed as a employment benifit.

Until you see people offering you credit to go purchase gold then no, gold is not in a bubble. The bubbles very existence is a direct function of the financing associated with the particular market in question, nothing more nothing less.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 07:02 | Link to Comment J in Vegas
J in Vegas's picture

Awesome!

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 10:53 | Link to Comment chdwlch1
chdwlch1's picture

I like that. That means that sovereign debt and equities (with central banks "beginning" to use reserves to bet in the stock market casino) are the real bubbles.  Makes sense...

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 22:52 | Link to Comment JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Reed made the six.
Cheese curds (the color of gold) are on me.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:00 | Link to Comment JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Fucking judges

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 22:54 | Link to Comment prains
prains's picture

MDB you might want to weigh in here, your perspective is always like......looking at a fatgina

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:00 | Link to Comment moonstears
moonstears's picture

MDB might weigh in, and he'll tell you that it's a commodity, then remind him/her(?) the Ben called it a "competing currency" when bantering with the Honorable Ron Paul, just yesterday!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 22:53 | Link to Comment AUD
AUD's picture

There's way more than 166000 tonnes of Gold, but it makes no difference. The quality of Gold makes it money, you can never have enough money.

Quantity is irrelevant.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 02:53 | Link to Comment SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Really?, I have enough money.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 22:54 | Link to Comment trickyrick
trickyrick's picture

Gold has had a visceral appeal throughout history and for every ancient civilization that had access to it.  You could say it has an "aura".

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 22:56 | Link to Comment lewy14
lewy14's picture

Infographics, b14+<H3z.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 22:56 | Link to Comment absente reo
absente reo's picture

It's not so much, is it in a bubble, but what should its value be.

And that depends on so many factors, that it is beyond calculation, because at least some of those factors involve rather deap-seated emotions.

Furthermore, it's not just about what its value is now, but where its value is expected to be in the future.

For all we know, gold could go to $5000 in 3 years.

Or it could drop to $1600 and rise gently at a rate of $100 per year so that in 3 years it's at $1900.

Or the Fed might have to raise rates owing to massive inflation and it could drop to $900.

 

How can anyone possibly know?

 

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:05 | Link to Comment Hugo Chavez
Hugo Chavez's picture

Gold could be whatever amount but its purchasing power depends on the productivity of the economy on the orher side of the event horizon.

If gold is $5000 dollars but productivity has dropped to 19th century standards a chicken might cost $200 dollars.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 01:56 | Link to Comment Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

oh gees are you another one of these Ellen Brown, Bill Still greenbackers who try and associate the value of gold with the 'total value' of an economy?

 

Gold has been used as money because it has those 5 qualities of divisibility, portability, durability, scarcity and acceptability.

If the entire US economy could (and it can't, that's the whole point of Austrian economics) be 'valued' at any point in time, and you divided it by the amount of gold in the US, that is not what the 'value' of gold is.

If a gold asteroid crashed to earth with 1,000,000 tonnes of gold tomorrow, then gold would become less valuable, having NOTHING to do with the economy (assuming the asteroid doesn't destroy the earth in the process of crashing).

Hence the need for a COMPETING currency standard. Gold, silver, bitcoin, FRNs, zim dollars and whatever being legal tender, then let the free market decide which form of money is accepted.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 02:09 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

let the free market decide which form of money is accepted.

The oldest currency in the universe: sex.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 05:12 | Link to Comment tabasco71
tabasco71's picture

you can't eat sex

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 06:29 | Link to Comment saulysw
Fri, 03/02/2012 - 08:13 | Link to Comment Silversinner
Silversinner's picture

but you can eat pussy

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:38 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Hence the need for a COMPETING currency standard. Gold, silver, bitcoin, FRNs, zim dollars and whatever being legal tender, then let the free market decide which form of money is accepted.
______________________________________________

Ah, the scam of the everlasting competition process.

Competition as a means of selection has a start and an end.

In the end, the output of the ideal competition process is a monopoly (in reality, an oligopoly)

Watch out, some lunatics (from US citizens POV) could argue that the competition is over and that the jury is now out and that competition has selected the USD as being the competition final selection.

Ah, yes, resetting a competition process requires resources.

Usually, when the resources that sustained a competition process are out, the entity on the top of the hill is the winner.

Considering that Earth is finite and by such, resources are finite, no matter what, the number of resets of competition processes is itself finite.

Ah, another thing maybe, with the world being global and US citizen having triggered an unsustainable course of consumption, well, well, the conclusion is obvious.

Back to the root, it seems, with US citizens claiming that they were something special, able to overcome their environment (when in reality, they have been extremelly apt at robbing the others' environment)

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:46 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

I am the Great Stoolman Mousy Tongue, destroyer of the Tibetan people and murderer of tens of millions in "The Great Leap Forward (into Starvation)", and I approve this Chinese citizenism message.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 04:56 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Upgrade, move to US citizenism.

You will murder and enslave much more people.

The only horizon is the number of human beings peopling the Earth.

Be ambitious, switch to US citizenism, it will suit your needs better.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 05:02 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

I am the Great Stoolman Mousy Tongue, compulsive warmonger and habitual masturbator, and I approve this Chinese citizenism message.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 05:06 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

That would fit the bill for US citizenism follower.

Warmonger, unable to tackle reality at hand, forcing to the exercize of intellectual masturbation...

Once again, upgrade to US citizenism, it will fit you much better.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 05:13 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

I am the Great Stoolman Mousy Tongue, father of thousands of online trolls paid to promote Chinese citizenism even while denying its existence, and I approve this Chinese citizenism message.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 02:48 | Link to Comment SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

A chicken never cost $200 dollars; ever, at any time. You;re an idiot.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 09:53 | Link to Comment Clay Hill
Fri, 03/02/2012 - 10:08 | Link to Comment prole
prole's picture

Are you 11 years old? Is there something wrong with you?

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 02:45 | Link to Comment SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

I know. And you will find out. It will be much higher than it is now. Because the process that has been occuring all during you life; a process called inflation will not cease.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 02:52 | Link to Comment SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

"Raising rates"; at present, or in the near future, will be an example of "shock and awe". The metals markets don't actually correlate very well with inflation; they are all about un-certainty and fear. It will be immediately obvious to everyone who is "sophisticated", that the new "higher" interest rates will not be paid. result. Panic. Gold to the Moon, this is one reason why interest rates have to stay at zero. Although it is not anounced; for the serious student of the subject, this is obvious.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 22:58 | Link to Comment kito
kito's picture

The whole planet is a bubble....earth isn't a oblate spheroid planet...it's a friggin bubble.....ready to pop......

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:13 | Link to Comment chump666
chump666's picture

lol

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 02:46 | Link to Comment SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Yep. that's the planet report for today. I wish it weren't, but it is. Reality is a bitch.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 22:58 | Link to Comment non_anon
non_anon's picture

trying to recall the 80's when gold hit a high, but then TPTB took control

watch out below, a new fiat currency is in the making

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:11 | Link to Comment Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

In addition to SDRs?

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:12 | Link to Comment non_anon
non_anon's picture

hmmm, not sure

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 02:09 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

"a new fiat currency is in the making"

I'm thinking that the world is just a bit too wise nowadays to fall for this "backed by the good FAITH of" shit any more.

Something REAL is going to back currencies again.

I love what "ilene?" wrote recently that if one were to take a load of FRNs to the Federal Reserve and ask them to be redeemed that there isn't anything there to redeem them with!  What more proof that this is all shit do we need!  Simple demonstration, to the fucking point!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 22:58 | Link to Comment BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

if the man with the gun says it's worth nothing...

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:17 | Link to Comment Every Third Word
Every Third Word's picture

The man with the gun was replaced by the Man with the Medicine, slowly putting the sheeple to sleep, long, deep, sleeeeeepppp.....

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:31 | Link to Comment BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

yeah but if he wakes up and tries to leave it's still the man with the gun he has to deal with.  That's what scares me.  The government, (through the banks) "create" a couple billion ounces of paper gold and sell it to kill the price.  Who is to stop them?  I don't see confiscation in this day and age, but rendering it useless, THAT is something goverments are extremely capable of and experienced in.  Either that or they just tax the shit out of it.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 01:02 | Link to Comment Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

I disagree. The whole point of gold is that it is uncontrollable. Sure you could tax the shit out of it in a controlled economy, but that's why their is the black market, and why it gets bigger as the government gets bigger. Also what you have today is essentially a modern day bank run.

ZHers keep hammering away at a possible bank run. What they don't get is that their will never really be a bank run, that is what all the bailouts are for. The only real bank run will be on the comex when interest in it evaporates because they can't or won't deliver and they contracts are no longer as leveraged due to margin hikes. At some point it doesn't make sense to trade paper when you don't have to pay much more to handle the real thing. 

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 01:36 | Link to Comment Doña K
Doña K's picture

The more they tax it, the more value when you sell in the black market. They will supress and supress the value, but the upward forces are too powerful. Little by little the trajectory is intact.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 11:50 | Link to Comment BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

yes, but if selling it on the black market makes you a criminal, not everyone wants to take that risk.  Prohibition lasted 14 years. 

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 00:01 | Link to Comment Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

...there's room for you inside....

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 22:59 | Link to Comment Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

You could LIE like the US does.

The "in reserve" counts the approximated unmined gold on federal land.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 22:58 | Link to Comment Hugo Chavez
Hugo Chavez's picture

I collect quarter oz eagles and bullion gold coins.

There is a larger premium, but a stack of quarter oz gold bullion coins will fit up the ass a lot easier than a stack of one oz coins.

Gotta plan for the future. I think between my wife and i we could cross the border with 40,000 dollars worth in an emergency.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:01 | Link to Comment Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

I lost my Gold (and Silver) in a boating accident.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:08 | Link to Comment Hugo Chavez
Hugo Chavez's picture

Dabolina has been practicing.

I hear he can stick a stack of those oversized mexican gold couns up his ass with no problem.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 00:57 | Link to Comment engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

I heard that's what they do, but when they get stuck in their ass why do they call it a boating accident?

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:14 | Link to Comment SaveTheBales
SaveTheBales's picture

Small world.  Mine perished in a ghastly recycling error.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:30 | Link to Comment LynRobison
LynRobison's picture

The aliens from Cowboys & Aliens took mine.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 23:35 | Link to Comment BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

My dealer accepts pm's

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 00:02 | Link to Comment Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Hugo Chavez is dangerously near a rectal mining accident.  Terrible way to lose one's collectable relics.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 00:24 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Someone once told me that they just liked the feel on a roll of Rands up his bung.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 02:14 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Reeded edges?

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 08:04 | Link to Comment BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

A barbarous relic at that

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 01:15 | Link to Comment Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

I lost my Gold (and Silver) in a boating accident.

 

I junked you because that was just too damned cheesy. Clever, but cheesy.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 02:21 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

I lost my PMs in a bunga bunga party.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 00:08 | Link to Comment Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Ppsssttt...Hugo Chavez....

Ever hear of metal detectors and X-Ray euipment at borders too?

I thought not.

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