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Instead Of Relenting To Demands To Let ECB Print, Germany Is Preparing To Kick Countries Out Of Eurozone

Tyler Durden's picture




 

It's official - Germany has become just like China (or, rather, has always been like it): the more it is pushed to do something (let ECB print), the more it will do the opposite. Half a year ago we discussed that the weakest point of the European bailout language was its reliance on Collective Action Clauses which imply that any resolution which does not have 100% backing of all bondholders would potentially push a country into default. In essence, this took control out of the hands of the Eurozone head, Germany, and put it to the bondholders. Well, according to a preliminary draft released by the Telegraph and FT, as part of the new bailout 'indenture' contained in the ESM, "under a section headed “The establishment of a procedure for an orderly default as part of the ESM”, Berlin makes clear that countries which are deemed to be insolvent – rather than just suffering a temporary loss of access to the financial markets – would be allowed, in effect, to declare bankruptcy and default on their bonds: If [a debt sustainability review] is negative, the affected member state would instead receive loans for a limited time only, during which the procedure for an orderly default would be prepared. In order to make sovereign defaults possible where they are unavoidable, the threat of instability in the financial system resulting from such a default must be able to be credibly excluded. A plan to maintain the stability of the financial system in the event of an orderly default needs to be developed in close co-operation with European banking regulators. This would determine which banks would be restructured and/or recapitalised, which will necessitate the drawing up of Europe-wide rules on bank restructuring." And as we discussed previously, the voluntary language will likely be taken out from the final draft, effectively giving Germany the unilateral ability to kick countries out. Which explains why the market is about to plunge: according to just released information from DPA, "the German Foreign Ministry on Friday confirmed that Germany was considering the possibility of more eurozone "orderly defaults" beyond that of Greece, as suggested by a paper leaked by the British press." In essence, what this means is that instead of relenting on the ECB issue, which as every investment bank has said would be the end of the world unless massive printing is permitted, Germany would rather kick countries out of the Eurozone instead of entering a hyperinflationary collapse. Perhaps it is now time for the banks to start toning down their language on the imminent destruction that would ensue if the ECB does not print, as this is apparently not happening...

From the FT:

Our friends and rivals over at The Daily Telegraph have gotten their hands on an interesting document from the German government detailing its proposals for EU treaty change, and have helpfully posted it online (with an English translation by the Open Europe think thank).

 

Although the Telegraph focuses on its implications for Britain, there is a significant amount of detail on how Berlin would like to change eurozone economic governance, including yet another stab at enshrining bondholder “haircuts” in the EU treaties.

 

For those who haven’t followed the debate closely, there is now a closed-door fight going on about whether Greece really will be the only country that sees its bondholders pushed into losses – as the eurozone’s leaders have repeatedly insisted in their summit conclusions – or whether the bloc’s new €500bn rescue fund, which could come into place as early as next year, should allow for organised defaults.

Why is this a market moving event?

When broader default powers were mooted for the ESM at this time last year in a much-discussed agreement between France’s Nicolas Sarkozy and Germany’s Angela Merkel in the French seaside town of Deauville, bond markets swooned, sending Ireland and then Portugal into bail-outs. Days later, during a G20 meeting in Seoul, Merkel was forced to back down. But the issue clearly hasn’t died.

In other words, while everyone believes Germany has been boxed into a corner and has no choice but to relent on global demands to let the ECB do whatever France demands, Germany was making other plans all along. Such as having the opion to kick France out of the Eurozone if and when it so chooses.

Because after all, money talks. And in Europe, only Germany has the money.

 

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Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:05 | 1891152 CPL
CPL's picture

Kick out, segregate, hide....all the same thing in this situation.

 

Problem doesn't go away if you stick your head in the sand.  Fucking useless civil servants.  At least there's a universal constant...the complete and total incompetence of the civil service.

 

Let us hail those too stupid to make a job, too spineless to operate on their own and to brittle to actually do work.

 

Unreal.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:18 | 1891204 ratso
ratso's picture

No - you are wrong Che Guevara breathe (I must say though, I always admired his courage and clarity of ideas and ideals).

 

It is good for the world for D-land to take this stand.  The EU  and eurzone started with a starry eyed dream that didn't take into account the vast cultural and economic differences among the countries.  Reality ahs bitten and there has to some adjustment for the project to continue on a smaller scale.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:23 | 1891225 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

I think one of the most inspiring speeches about the Eurozone crisis came from President Herman Von Rumpoy who delivered a fantastic rebuttal of the ignorant right-wing nationalists. Von Rumpoy points out that

"The euro zone has to move toward real economic union commensurate with monetary union"

Once again President Von Rumpoy pinpoints the solution with remarkable clarity. What Europe needs now is MORE integration and MORE centralization in the hands of experts so that the global economy can be managed by the smartest economic advisors. These are challenging economic times and the sooner we delegate power to the sharpest economic minds, the sooner we can restore prosperity and freedom to Europe and to the rest of the world.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:25 | 1891232 ratso
ratso's picture

Yes, but it has to be built with a samller group of countries that can sustain it.  The other countries can be reintegrated when they are ready.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:33 | 1891256 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

I respectfully disagree. If you've read Dr Paul Krugman's work you will know that increased welfare spending and fiscal stimulus programs boost aggregate demand and increase retail sales, which leads to service sector job growth. A larger EU is capable of funding significantly larger social programs to boost prosperity for all Europeans in just this way.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:40 | 1891278 ratso
ratso's picture

Please don't blame Paul Krugman for your own distortions and illusions.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:56 | 1891331 CharlieSDT
CharlieSDT's picture

MDB, good one today, much more inspired trolling.  You've been pretty unimaginative lately.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:11 | 1891373 centerline
centerline's picture

Definately improving his game here today.  Most sites really hate trolls.  ZH is unique in that it is better because of them... that is, if they can rise to the occasion.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:25 | 1891444 konputa
konputa's picture

It's the fucking comedy hour here at 0H.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:39 | 1891488 eureka
eureka's picture

Imagine how fun it would be if someone pushed the US to do something... anything...

nah that's impossible... no one pushed the US... right?

but if they did, would US do the opposite....

like China and Germany....?

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 13:03 | 1891575 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

What I love is this magic pixie dust statement: 

"In order to make sovereign defaults possible where they are unavoidable, the threat of instability in the financial system resulting from such a default must be able to be credibly excluded."


 

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 13:18 | 1891626 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Folks, this is Geopolitics 101. Breathe out, over-reach, breathe in, see how much you really hold, then breathe out again.

EU (the entity) does not give a shit about anyone. Not about greeks, nor about Germans.

There is a plan. They are clearly sticking to it. They have one on the periphery (Greece) and one in the Heart (Italy).

Anyone notice how Spain has finally started showing up and for all the wrong reasons?

ORI

ode to my Pattern Maker

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 18:35 | 1892755 Element
Element's picture

see how much you really hold,

 

Yes, its a 'negotiation'.

oh, you can do that, well I can do this, ... hmm, so you can do that too huh? Ok, but I got you here, cop this, I'm going to take Austria and Poland, then France and Russia. Problem was, they couldn't consolidate it longer term, and nor could Japan.

So what will they try to take and hold, and consolidate, this time?

And you know who'll be doing the fighting and the dieing ... right?

Consequently, we're going to need a bigger myth, because "for king and country", or for Uncle Sam, ain't going to cut it this time.

This time they'll need to make us believe in something somewhat more credible, and it's going to take false flags to get there and a lot of marginalisation of the committed dissenter and objector ... before the 'negociations' begin in earnest.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:45 | 1891290 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I respectfully disagree.  Everyone knows that the private sector needs to be allowed to operate without restrictions or regulations and everything will be fixed.  If only Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein had more power and fewer regulatoins, everything would be fine.  Alan Greenspan was right and it's the damned socialists who have screwed up his brilliant vision of concentrating more debt on the backs of the middle class, and using that debt to centralize more and more real wealth at the top, for the benefit of us all.  

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:52 | 1891316 ratso
ratso's picture

That's pretty funny stuff.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:00 | 1891337 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

That is factually incorrect. Liberals have been warning for decades about the lack of welfare spending and nobody has listened. Since the introduction of the Welfare State and the great society programs, the gap between rich and poor has contracted significantly. The size of government has been shrinking for years, and liberals have been warning about this. Resources shouldn't be allocated based on supply and demand because this is a subjective means of resource allocation. The only objective means is according to the preferences of elected experts and professionals. History shows that politicians are accountable to the people and therefore we can trust them to use the power for good only. OBAMA/BERNANKE 2012!!!

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:11 | 1891374 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

Dontcha just luv this guy ^^^

 

MDB, no no no... you got it wrong, it should read:

"Resources shouldn't be allocated based on supply and demand because this is a subjective means of resource allocation. The only objective means is according to the magnitude of need by an individual or organization."

You're like the antithesis of Ayn mayne.

And where have you been?  We've been missing your incredible socialistic spin on things.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:19 | 1891420 Double down
Double down's picture

Agreed, reading that gave me fits of giggles interrupted by dry heaves. 

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 14:14 | 1891770 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Since the introduction of the Welfare State and the great society programs, the gap between rich and poor has contracted significantly.

I am dying to see the chart to support this.....

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 13:00 | 1891546 citrine
citrine's picture

Yep, we do love this guy. I would also like to suggest one minor revision, as follows:

"Resources shouldn't be allocated based on supply and demand because this is a subjective means of resource allocation. The only objective means is according to the preferences of appointed experts and professionals." In order to remove the uncertainty associated with any election process.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:12 | 1891375 Thomas.2012
Thomas.2012's picture

 

@MDB

Oh boy, whatever you smoke I want exactly the same stuff!

Must feel great to fly around in tha lala land without knowing shit.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:35 | 1891480 infinity8
infinity8's picture

You have amazing stamina - I want to know what meds you're taking.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:40 | 1891493 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

I think MDB is a conservative with his tongue in his cheek creating a little humor out of misdirection...because no one could really be that stupid!

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:59 | 1891557 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Gee, ya think?

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:41 | 1891495 FMR Bankster
FMR Bankster's picture

MDB, I'm suprised you have not moved right to the ultimate solution. Stop all this work crap and just pass out money so everybody can spend. Pass out $10,000,000 Euro's to everyone on the continent and we'll have solved these economic problems once and for all. sac

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:52 | 1891528 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

Im certain MillionDollorBonus is an economics major or ex economics major

thats the only place where you get material of this quality

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:02 | 1891351 Melin
Melin's picture

Rand besmircher.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:01 | 1891309 Black Forest
Black Forest's picture

AAAAAARGHHHHHHHHH!

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:54 | 1891322 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

To MDB who do you work for and when the" turning" comes which it will do, do you not worry about being tried for treason.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:29 | 1891462 MeetTozter
MeetTozter's picture

No worries, on "turning"'s Eve, his master will leave him tied up outside as bait

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:06 | 1891365 lineskis
lineskis's picture

Dude, at least have the decency to pursue your reasoning untill it ends: "increased welfare spending and fiscal stimulus programs boost aggregate demand and increase retail sales".

If it's sooooo simple, why limiting the debt ceiling, and why even bother getting a balanced budget? Let's just borrow and print untill infinity and beyond (because yeah, when nobody has the money to lend, someone has to print for the borrower to borrow...): problem solved!

I tried it and it does not work dick head!

Sincerely,

Weimar, Germany

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:15 | 1891403 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Obama will provide. Amen.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:31 | 1891468 knukles
knukles's picture

Good God man.  That's completely delusional by my standards.

By the way, did you ever make that additional over and above that which was required to be paid to the federal government, your extra special on top of that necessary contribution, so that we'd really know that you're no a hypocrite?
You'd said that it was important and noble for each person to pay more in taxes, so just looking for you to lead by example.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 13:04 | 1891581 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

Knuckles, I feel that I am doing my part by making the ethical and moral case for government coercion. I consider myself a rational empiricist, and by winning minds with my objective analysis, I am enabling politicians to take more of what they need in order to provide us with happiness freedom. I point out that politicians protect us from the criminal corporations who are trying to sell us expensive goods and offer us low wage jobs. My individual tax contribution pales in comparison to the effects of my objective moral analysis.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 13:23 | 1891647 knukles
knukles's picture

Delusional pabulum

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 15:22 | 1892010 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

"provide us with happiness freedom"

You silly silly devalued fiat bonus. You don't need politicians for that. Drugs are much more potent and several orders of magnitude cheaper.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:49 | 1891517 agent default
agent default's picture

Borders exist not because somebody just drew a line on the map, but because they separate nations with fundamentaly different mentalities, attitudes and world views.  And more to the point, yes there are nations whose attitudes and work ethics that are better suited for a soft currency and nations whose attitudes are better suited for a hard currency.  Now pretending that you can do away with these differences on  a whim, because a bunch of politicos had a "vision" and other crap along these lines, is just a very dangerous experiment.  No, you will not force the Greeks to work like the Germans, or the Italians to act like the Fins, and so on.  The more they persist with this crap, the more the anger, and in the end it will all end in revolution.  And go tell Krugman  to knock off the crap.  The West has been living above it means, on borrowed money for far too long.  No further integration will ever change that.  Take a look at the Demographics, at the social security entitlements in the US and in European countries, look at the industrial production figures and tell me that the West is living within its means. It is not.  Further integration of anything is just the latest extend and pretend game.  And this time it is not just about money, it is about gambling entire countries and nations in the name of fiscal experiments, put together by academics who never had a real job.  And this is criminal.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:28 | 1891242 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Van Rumpoy is a shit stain on the underwear of humanity.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:12 | 1891387 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

Van Rump-Boy... when God comes to give this place an anema, I know exactly where he's going to stick the hose.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:32 | 1891476 knukles
knukles's picture

MBD is the chunk.

The man is powerless over delusion, brain addled, or else a paid troll.
Either way....

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 13:31 | 1891665 JungleJim
JungleJim's picture

Dawg, you do shit a gross injustice.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:31 | 1891251 Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

Do you really believe this shit you write?

 

Trollin' down a river....

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:59 | 1891343 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Satire is the best form of criticism... At this point it is irrelevant to consider if MDB believes these ideas - they are part of the character.
The best part is when he starts a seemingly serious discussion with another troll - see above.
Red arrows are the measure of MDB's success - and I give him one nearly every time. 

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:13 | 1891391 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Let them eat rand eats it up, ha..  Cannot distinguish between criminal behaviour and capitalism..  I agree, I like this hamy wanger much better than the rest, never out of character, no hints deadpan delivery very enjoyable..

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 23:36 | 1893422 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Interesting observation about my inability to distinguish criiminal behavior from capitalism.  Very true.

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 13:18 | 1894159 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

If myself and five partners use picks and shovels to dig iron ore out of the ground build a furnace and smelt and form it into shovels to employ folks to help us we are now criminals..

You and your ilk are dangerous and you and I should probably never meet, matter/antimatter and all..  I fear your ignorant delusions and self pity may be spreading and guys like me may soon need to school children like you.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:15 | 1891400 Melin
Melin's picture

If it's satire, it misses.  Like minded individuals recognize satire aimed at their opponents and seek it out. Fountains of Keynesianisms are just tedious.  The same that we're confronted with everywhere else we turn.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:53 | 1891533 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

I give him a green every time!

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:32 | 1891257 Captain Kink
Captain Kink's picture

@MDB

So these "sharp minds" will be able to manage a future in which the southern states are steadily subsidized by northern states?  Institutionalized transfer payments to keep the dead beats buying german production?  Sounds like China's relationship with us...and sure to fail in the end.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 13:01 | 1891568 LoneCapitalist
LoneCapitalist's picture

I cannot believe how many idiots on ZH take MDB serious. He must be sitting at his keyboard laughing his ass off at all the morons.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 13:34 | 1891672 JungleJim
JungleJim's picture

Though I assume he's just doing a little "shit stirring", we could all come up with plenty of "experts" who feel that they are more competent than we are in running our lives.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:41 | 1891285 Fremen Sharpshooter
Fremen Sharpshooter's picture

 

I think one of the most inspiring speeches about the Galactic crisis came from Supreme Chancellor Palpatine who delivered a fantastic rebuttal of the ignorant right-wing seperatists. Palpatine points out that

"The Galactic Repulic has to move toward real economic union commensurate with monetary union"

Once again Supreme Chancellor Palpatine pinpoints the solution with remarkable clarity. What the Galactic Republic needs now is MORE integration and MORE centralization in the hands of experts so that the Galactic economy can be managed by the smartest economic advisors. These are challenging economic times and the sooner we delegate power to the sharpest economic minds, the sooner we can restore prosperity and freedom to the Republic and to the rest of the world.

 

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:21 | 1891369 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

According to today's Wall Street Journal, we should all be very afraid:

 

"[T]he ECB has assumed a new role: Europe's most potent institution."

"So far, the [ECB] has resisted [printing], arguing this wouldn't be legal under European law. Yet few believe the ECB would let the common currency collapse to defend that principle."

So if I'm reading this correctly we've got (i) an unelected group usurping democratically elected governments to become the most powerful body in the EU, and (ii) a group that is not expected to follow laws or let legalities stand in the way of its actions.

Amazing that the WSJ is now printing it for everyone to read. So like much of the recent past, when the obvious is shoved in our faces we'll hear cries that "we never saw it coming."

Source: Wall Street Journal

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:48 | 1891514 unununium
unununium's picture

> Amazing that the WSJ is now printing it for everyone to read

No it isn't.  They print it because it's Europe's scam.  They don't talk about American scams.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:49 | 1891520 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

The ECB and other central banks do not 'print', the concept is incorrect. Central banks expand their balance sheets, creating assets and taking liabilities in the form of national or sovereign bonds.

The problem with the ECB is that there is no agency to create the liability the bank would take onto its balance sheet. It cannot fix the liability onto the country needing the asset because their bonds aren't worth anything. ECB rules (reasonably) prevent the bank from accepting liability other than from solvent entities. This means the only debt acceptable is German debt: this liability the Germans refuse to accept. They do so because they believe that euro defaults won't touch them if they refuse euro debt liabilities from non-Germans, preferring deposits from the same euro entities instead (?)

What the ECB must do is recycle the funds it takes on as deposits from other banks. The Bundesbank needs to do the same thing: the capital flight into these two banks is a large component to the panic/liquidity squeeze.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 20:38 | 1893017 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

There you go with that "law" stuff.  Even the Magna Carta is dead.  Get with it.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:12 | 1891379 Mad Marv
Mad Marv's picture

Anyone worth their salt will not allow themselves to be pillaged. You can't centrally plan other people's production.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:25 | 1891447 Breaker
Breaker's picture

"Once again President Von Rumpoy pinpoints the solution with remarkable clarity. What Europe needs now is MORE integration and MORE centralization in the hands of experts so that the global economy can be managed by the smartest economic advisors. These are challenging economic times and the sooner we delegate power to the sharpest economic minds, the sooner we can restore prosperity and freedom to Europe and to the rest of the world."

LOL. I think a lot of folks on the thread missed the humor.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:40 | 1891487 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

I agree with Von Rumpoy, Germany and the rest have no choice there is no practical ALTERNATIVE to the euro ... only parallel currencies and monetary sovereignty with the euro as a reserve currency.

The entire Germany current account is denominated in euros (its F/X reserves include other currencies). What has been taking place -- behind the scrim of asset dumps, bank recapitalization and euro redemptions -- is flight out of euros in to CHF, bucks ... gold ... anything else.

A euro repudiation lets the air out of Germany's so-called 'wealth'. This makes Greece too big to fail! Why do ya think the Eurocrats are so desperate to keep the EU and the euro together? Shits and giggles?

If the euro dies, so does Germany, France, all the rest. Too much has been invested in the euro.

What Germany needs to do is put some bankers in jail rather than bail them out: to restore some confidence in the system.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 18:54 | 1892834 Element
Element's picture

What Germany needs to do is put some bankers in jail rather than bail them out: to restore some confidence in the system.

 

A bridge too far, apparently. They want confidence, they just don't want it that much. Market confidence is a fake, so they continue to fake us out via other means, than putting fine upstanding bankers in prison.

We need bankers where they are, for they are masters of the universe, and the sun would refuse to shine, or the crops grow, without them holding the reins of our future stranglement.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 13:17 | 1891623 JungleJim
JungleJim's picture

I assue this is sarcasm .....

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 13:50 | 1891711 Moocao
Moocao's picture

I LOOOVE this guy

He really gives out the chuckles

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 15:41 | 1892100 Random_Robert
Random_Robert's picture

So, where does it end, MDB?

Should the US join the eurozone? if fiscal consolidatin is good, then global consolidation should be great...

Is Herman Von Rumpoy ready to lead  North AmericEurope?  You must see where I'm going with this...

And when the super cool "euro-world" comes together, should it be Democratic, or Dictatorship? Should people be allowed to elect their world leaders?

And if so, then please tell me WHY pray tell, is Democracy no longer any good for Greece or Italy, where NONE of the incoming governments are comprised of elected people...?

 

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 16:02 | 1892187 Ponzi Unit
Ponzi Unit's picture

Come on Million Dollar, that's a put on, right?

Deadpan. Or brain dead. 

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:28 | 1891244 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

And how is that going to go for D-land when all their customers are fucking broke.  The infinite growth model with everyone being a "producer" is hardly sustainable on a planet with finite resources.  The entire system needs an overall so that compensation can find its way back to people and labor that are actually worth a shit or in economic terms, of real value.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:30 | 1891465 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

About as well as it will if we see unlimited printing. Only difference will be the timing.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:36 | 1891274 CPL
CPL's picture

It's che picking his nose.

 

To be honest his life was fairly disgusting, from his ability to rape and murder to his politics being slightly short of batshit crazy.  However it was the cold war, everyone was crazy. 

 

I photoshoped this because I walked through a mall and counted probably five suburban kids sporting his visage on their shirts and could only question why other than good marketing that side stepped his sociopath lifestyle of rape and murder.

 

And by Eurozone do you mean Europe.  Because the term Eurozone is meaningless.  It's an empty moniker with the same symbolism as a can of coke.  Since it was called Europe before hand, the term Eurozone goes over as well as that other rebranded failure 'New coke'.

 

Words have power. 

Europe is ancient, known, historical in terms of countries, culture and language that is fascinating and offers stories and useful parables to draw from.  Both successes and failures.

 

The term "eurozone", claims someone owns it and there is no past and bars reality from entering the conversation. 

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:53 | 1891300 ratso
ratso's picture

Well we now know that you have an affinity for nose picking and not much more.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:59 | 1891345 CPL
CPL's picture

Digging for gold is still better than a thumb in the ass.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:15 | 1891405 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Thank you, he was a murdering bastard..

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:58 | 1891554 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

Here is a very credible account of the side of Che that few in the world have ever heard:

http://townhall.com/columnists/humbertofontova/2010/10/09/che_guevara;_g...

 

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 13:10 | 1891597 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Hgh Jordan,

Yeah, and here's the other.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1849658/posts

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 14:21 | 1891762 eureka
eureka's picture

at ratso and his readers:  imagine Jon Voight stomping NYC - on a grey day, with his new best buddy:

"Yeah ratso - i know what you're saying... about Europe - it's a starry eyed dream, all right - it didn't take into account the vast cultural and economic differences among the countries... - you're smart ratso, you know that? and I'm gonna take care of you... because where I come from,  we're all cowboys, everyone's the same... and we stick together, you know what I mean? We have a common cause - we have a dream - and it's not like it seems... it's not like here, in New York City, with all the fancy lights and things... all the tall buildings... it's like they're going to eat you... alive... like they're gonna consume the whole world, as fast as possible...  but Europe is different... maybe we'll go there one day and see what it's really like... I hear it's very different - in some ways even better than Florida - would you like that?"

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 15:03 | 1891918 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

And then... Jon blows him..

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 21:03 | 1893093 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Spot on, spot on.  Germany is being very smart and clever, if this thing is about to implode cut the culprits out of the club and backstop your own banks.  It's much cheaper and less of a burden to the country as a whole. 

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:16 | 1891208 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

Jim Willie has been claiming for years that the current euro will be replaced by a "nordic" euro. Fucking guy's gonna be right.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:56 | 1891315 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

I'm still trying to figure out what the Deutsche Mark to Dollar exchange rate's gonna be.      Here's hoping I can get my order in early for the lowest serial numbers while the little sucker's are still hot off the Merkel printing press.    I also wonder whose face they're gonna put on the bills.   

What a collectible those are gonna be.    

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:59 | 1891339 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

You are getting excited about getting new FIAT debt , some people will never get it 

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 15:04 | 1891922 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Hell yeah I get it.  

Fiat sucks, Chevy rules!

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:27 | 1891456 San Diego Gold Bug
San Diego Gold Bug's picture

TF,  Jim Willie is going to be proven right but but you have been right for years as well!!  Keep up the good work my man!!

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:49 | 1891518 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Jim Willie Rocks.....

Like a breath of fresh air ,reading his work.

And YES,he will be right.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:23 | 1891228 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Here, here.  It is all about the value of one's labor.  Far too much compensation has been going to paper-pushing fucknuts in BOTH the private (wall street in particular) and public sector.  This simply is another form of capital mis-allocation.

Crash the fucking system already and let's find out precisely what the value of everyone's labor really is.  Fucking bring it.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:35 | 1891269 Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

Well said.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:41 | 1891284 CPL
CPL's picture

amen

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:06 | 1891362 prains
prains's picture

somebody needs to start swinging a big hammer and clean up this mess, bring an 8lb sledge to the next meeting

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:15 | 1891401 Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

Jawohl, Hauptmann !

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 13:44 | 1891694 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Well said lawsofphysics.

We've truly forgotten value at the alter of price.

That too in current-sea.

Value Vs. Price

ORI

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:05 | 1891359 Bokkenrijder
Bokkenrijder's picture

....and exactly HOW are 'zee Germans' going to "kick countries out of the Eurozone" might I ask...?

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:23 | 1891438 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

By refusing to pick up their bar tabs.  The rest is up to gravity and other natural forces.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:05 | 1891361 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Plus it's not that easy. Germany blows up its national bank potentially. We now know about Proton. Unicredit is 1000 times "the same thing." you do the math.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:45 | 1891511 e2thex
e2thex's picture

Greece isn't leaving or being dropped.  If that happens France takes a hit. That ain't gonna happen.  The US taxpayer is giving money to the IMF which in turn is giving money to the ECB. 

France is the big story. Not Greece. Not Italy. Not Spain.

 

 

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 20:44 | 1893035 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"The US taxpayer is giving money to the IMF which in turn is giving money to the ECB."

This is the bottom line.  The euro isn't going under.  The US will fund it all.  Germany's gold in NYC?

Vielen Dank, Meine Herren!!!!

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:03 | 1891157 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Gott in Himmel !

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:09 | 1891183 BillyBoy22
BillyBoy22's picture

Gotta admire their tenacity and perseverance.  Theyve been going for hegemony in europe since 1871, and despite some minor setbacks, have seemingly come up with a foolproof plan that wont result in millions of soviets pouring over their border. "National" european language and tax of the untermenschen anyone?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww7WlSPi9gc !

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:03 | 1891159 Bodhi
Bodhi's picture

Something something uber alles?

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:06 | 1891172 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Nehmen Sie mein American Express kardieren?

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:45 | 1891509 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

if you have any credit left I'lll take it!

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:14 | 1891199 tickhound
tickhound's picture

gettin' there... pain in spain, something rain I dunno.  Too many fronts once again.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:20 | 1891217 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

Humm along with me. ready?

"Deutschland, Deutshcland ueber alles, ....ueber alles in der welt....."

 

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:04 | 1891162 redpill
redpill's picture

You can slice off some warts like Greece, but do they have the pelotas to cut off the boot?

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:30 | 1891249 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Not until they get the gold.  Hence WWIII.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:04 | 1891164 Ryman1075
Ryman1075's picture

The force is strong with Merkel

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:08 | 1891180 CPL
CPL's picture

nope.jpg

 

Just another empty civil servant suit counting the days until retirement.  Want to know the most popular screen saver across all government sectors across the western world.  It's the retirement countdown.

 

http://www.ultimatesavers.com/index.asp?ID=520

 

Don't bother installing it though, it usually comes with a secondary payload.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:04 | 1891166 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Oh my, I hope the nonmarket continues to ignore this headline for a couple more hours.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:05 | 1891167 midgetrannyporn
midgetrannyporn's picture

You don't buy me out, I buy you out. [/Moe Green]

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:16 | 1891203 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

make him an offer he can't refuse...

...the orderly default plan, BiCheZ!

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:07 | 1891177 BW
BW's picture

They are not going to print, except for the printing they do everyday.  That's a good one.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:08 | 1891179 rambler6421
rambler6421's picture

Merkel will sell out.

 

libertarian86.blogspot.com

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:11 | 1891192 CPL
CPL's picture

Of course she will.

 

She'll swallow whatever cock is shoved in her face via the central banks (EFSF, IMF, whatever is acting in that role now...it sure isn't the ECB).  After gladdly choking back that cock, she'll take the money from the night stand and call it a day.

 

 

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:45 | 1891292 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

German women give lousy blowjobs.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:26 | 1891453 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

You're claiming to be better at it?

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:11 | 1891189 Jreb
Jreb's picture

So - Germany kicks out France, Italy, Greece, Spain, Ireland and Portugal. Can we just call this the end of the Euro state and be done with it?

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:12 | 1891193 CPL
CPL's picture

After it's all said and done Germany will be the only EU member.

 

Lol!

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:20 | 1891427 Nage42
Nage42's picture

They should keep Belgium.  Good to have more beer variety and then there's always chocolate too.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:25 | 1891445 knukles
knukles's picture

Yes, all praise the home of Freedom Fries and Ketchup. 

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:12 | 1891194 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Didn't Lehman effectively get 'kicked out' of the banking industry?

And we know how well that planned 'kick out' went.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:19 | 1891215 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Again, the use of words such as "well" in situations such as the Lehman Brothers collapse need a little bit of clarity shone upon them.

If by "well" you mean the financial industry received TARP, endless government bailouts, QE after QE by various central banks, TALF and all of the other alphabet soups as reward for its utter destruction of the global economy, I'd say the Lehman event went quite "well", wouldn't you?

Perspective.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:51 | 1891301 lesterbegood
lesterbegood's picture

Regarding the Lehman Bros. collapse, hypothetically speaking: The PRC discovers that the TBTF banks, et.al., have been photocopying mortgage contracts x 10-20, bundling them in $30 million tranches and selling them to Europe and Asia (MBS). PRC, et.al. refuses to purchase any more MBS. Futhermore, they refused to accept USD created after 2008. Liquidity dries up, TBTF panics, need liquidity ASAP. Lehman Bros, sacrificed to provide liquidity quickly. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:13 | 1891198 Scalaris
Scalaris's picture

Let's hope that they don't corner Germany hard enough. Because we are way too close from the spawning of another charismatic "leader".

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:16 | 1891205 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

Who ever gets kicked out needs to back their old currency with PM's and really undercut/payback the EuroZombies

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:17 | 1891210 Desert Irish
Desert Irish's picture

My money's on the Germans - why waste money propping up Club Med when you just know they'll be back at the trough in no time? Use the same funds to create a "soft landing" as you kick their arses out the door. Germany's banks seems to have the least exsposure to the PIGGS debt - hence Sarkorzy better get on his knees hard and fast.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 13:02 | 1891572 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Desert Irish .

My money's on the Germans

Mine too.(Merkel has no choice, her head would be on a picket had she allowed the EU to do what's been done to us.)

They would have done this anyway, but they already SAW the MOVIE, and know the plot.(and the Plight), OURS.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:18 | 1891211 traditionalfunds
traditionalfunds's picture

Greek market making new crisis lows on the news.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:18 | 1891212 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

There is no such thing as an orderly default.

We all know that in 12 months time there will either be an 8 country eurozone or there will be no eurozone because Germany leaves.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:19 | 1891412 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

My feeling is that Germany leaves "temporarily" within the next 3-6 months.

A "strong Deutschmark" has benefits (cheaper energy/raw materials imports) as well as disadvantages. And German exports do not compete exclusively on price anyway.

Then they re-enter the Eurozone after the Euro has been de-valued to practically zero.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:19 | 1891214 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Here's the money quote-save the banks (the people don't matter):

"In order to make sovereign defaults possible where they are unavoidable, the threat of instability in the financial system resulting from such a default must be able to be credibly excluded."

Also, who came up with the laughable notion of an "orderly" sovereign default for EU countires?

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:20 | 1891219 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Either Germany leaves or they kick the deadbeats out. Germany did fine by itself. 

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:21 | 1891220 youngman
youngman's picture

So Germany has spoken..maybe...now we wait for an emergency meeting?...the IMF to speak...the ESFS to speak....what...I am nervous.....this is so exciting....where is Mr P now...can´t he be a sideline commentator now...maybe a TV show with the Bunga Bunga man....Kind of like the "Man Show"..girls on trampolines and all...

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:21 | 1891223 Mediocritas
Mediocritas's picture

They have to kick Greece out, that much is clear. Greece should never have been allowed to join in the first place. I find it hard to justify any nation beyond that. Portugal behaved itself reasonably well, just got unlucky. Ireland is not beyond repair. Now that Italy is in the hands of the eurocrats, it will fall in line. Just leaves Spain but with 10 yr yields pushing the magic 7% threshold, anticipate a political overthrow in 10, 9, 8....

What Germany really needs to do is shut the fuck up. German corporations benefited handsomely from the eurofringe being able to borrow cheaply to buy German goods and services. German banks are whining now because the money they lent to PIIGS went to German automakers (etc) and now they can't get it back. Boo, hoo, the money is still in Germany isn't it? It just shifted hands via some PIIGS. Are we supposed to feel sorry for German banks? Nobody forced banks to lend at stupidly low rates to PIIGS. They decided all on their own to ignore history and treat all european citizens as identical economic entities when, clearly, cultural differences ensure this is not the case. They fucked up and screwed themselves while German manufacturers made out like kings.

When (not if) Europe eases, the fringe will not experience rampant internal inflation as so many fear due to the counterbalancing effect of servicing enormous debts and a continued push towards greater fiscal discipline. Inflation will instead be felt in Germany, but Germans being Germans, as I know them, that inflation will dampen as it overflows into foreign investment (Germans love their holiday homes in Spain). In other words, the ECB printing gives Germany an excuse to buy up everything that isn't nailed down in PIIGS territory. A land grab.

All the German resistance is just for show. It's bullshit. Once the penny drops they'll be all for it. Ironically, it's the PIIGS that should be resisting ECB easing if they have any desire to remain sovereign.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:28 | 1891245 AngryGerman
AngryGerman's picture

word!

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:37 | 1891482 prains
prains's picture

Crash and print baby,it's all theatre to bring on devaluing like there was no choice

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:22 | 1891224 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

I don't believe any of this shit because the agenda all along to form the NWO is to first have a United States of Europe, whether by referendum (unpermissable under fascism) or by financial takeover and debt enslavement.  The PIIGS will wind up as wholly owned subsidiaries of some financial entity (think BIS).

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:30 | 1891248 tickhound
tickhound's picture

4th Reich by financial blitzkrieg?  Let's send Chamberlain to discuss...

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:23 | 1891227 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

All I've got to say is- 'WHAT A SHOW!!'

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 12:19 | 1891419 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Soon enough we will be part of the show.. It will not look so good on the wrong side of the cage.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:25 | 1891234 spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

I am confused, didn't everyone cheer when the old Soviet Union broke up? Gorbachev brought Glasnost!

van Rompuy seems to want none of that and I guess he looks at Gorbachev as an utter failure for not ruling with an iron fist.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:26 | 1891236 Cole Younger
Cole Younger's picture

All this BS just to protect over leveraged banks. Must be nice to be able to fuck up with impunity..

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:26 | 1891237 bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture

Really liking my 3.0 on 1.358 right now. LOL

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:27 | 1891240 The Reich
The Reich's picture

21 months too late

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:27 | 1891241 AngryGerman
AngryGerman's picture

That doesn't mean much. She's only saying that in order to keep her government running. German people don't want to pay for Greece, and they certainly don't want to pay for the Italian as they consider them lazy (always has been, always will be).

But Merkel is not a doer, she's a blender. She never wants to take a stance and/or formulate a precise position. Never has, never will. It's not her style, she prefers politics with "a calm hand".

Don't be happy yet, German industry wants EU in order to keep exporting. There's massive lobbying going on in Frankfurt today to start printing money for real. After all, companies don't care about debt, they care about profits.

Profits rely on other EU countries for export, EU countries rely on ECB for money, ECB relies on Germany funding, funding comes from taxing future generations (i.e. debt)

easy game, no game over for EU, never. not as long as merkel is in charge.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:40 | 1891280 Captain Kink
Captain Kink's picture

The currency adjustments that would occur if German economic power were reflected accurately would be jarring to their industry initially.  But I would bet that they could still produce and compete and be profitable globally with a true value on their currency.  Perhaps not as ridiculously profitable, but profitable still.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:31 | 1891252 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Smaller Eurozone not necessarily better for finances. Under the radar for now are serious problems, yes, even with Germany. 

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:31 | 1891253 Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture

"Perhaps it is now time for the banks to start toning down their language on the imminent destruction that would ensue if the ECB does not print, as this is apparently not happening..."

 

aaaahahahaahhahahaha

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:32 | 1891258 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Meanwhile, the HFTs are lining up their FX and ETF squeeze play for the afternoon.  Two words: bear trap.  

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:35 | 1891260 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Since we already have the likely scenarios sussed out on one side of the equation it would be nice to see someone take a stab at quantifying the disruptions and expenses involved if Germany exits the Euro.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:49 | 1891304 AngryGerman
AngryGerman's picture

Well, let's see export figures from 2010 (from destatis.de)

 

Portugal: €7.8 bln (0.8% of total exports)

Ireland: €4.2 bln (0.4%)

Italy: €58.6 bln (6.2%)

Greece: €5.8 bln (0.6%)

Spain: €34.2 bln (3.6%)

Total PIIGS: €110.6 bln (11.6%)

 

and then comes France: €89.6 bln (9.4%)

 

Now just imagine 11.6% of your exports suddenly turning nearly worthless due to a strong new D-Mark. Or even 21.0% (when France bites the dust)

German companies do not like D-Mark.

German will eventually agree to print.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 13:02 | 1891571 infinity8
infinity8's picture

If 11.6% or 21% of your customers can no longer obtain credit to purchase your goods, you're already fucked.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 14:48 | 1891847 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

Where else are they going to buy from? It's not like the drachma is going to be worth a lot of yuan or yen or dollars either. Neither do they have the capability to manufacture cars, etc themselves.  Volume will go down but not to zero.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:36 | 1891264 thepigman
thepigman's picture

You don't think Merkel's going to make ALL these guys pay for

saying she eats too much cheese and is an unf***able lard ass?

You don't know Germans:-)  She is NEVER going to print:-)

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:36 | 1891272 masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

Bravo Germany.  Apparently they realize that wiping out the middle class, the inevitable result of money printing on a large scale, would be the end for Europe.

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