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Iran Foreign Ministry Claims Nuclear Scientist Was Executed By CIA, As Nigeria Strike Talks Collapse

Tyler Durden's picture





 

While on one hand we get news from Nigeria that the government and the labor unions have failed to end a labor strike, raising the prospect of a halt of all production in the country which produces 2.4 million barrels of oil per day or roughly the same as Iran exports, we now find out that the US attempt at de-escalating tensions with Iran (following Thursday's news of an extension in the oil embargo deadline by 6 months - one would almost think Obama realized $5.00 gas may be an issue with the election looming) may have failed massively, and it is now Iran's attempt to score political brownie points knowing well it has all the advantage. As EA WorldView reports, instead of backing away from last week's sensitive issue of the assasination of a nuclear scientist, Iran has ripped the scab right off the wound and its foreign ministry has boldly proclaimed that it has "reliable documents and evidence that this terrorist act was planned, guided and supported by the CIA. The documents clearly show that this terrorist act was carried out with the direct involvement of CIA-linked agents." So the ball is now squarely back in America's court, and any further attempts at appeasement, such as the embargo extension was perceived as being, will merely serve to make US foreign policy appear even more toothless. Which Hillary will hardly stomach. So we may well be back at square one (only this time with two aircraft carriers in the Arabian Sea instead of just one).

From EA WorldView:

The Foreign Ministry has asserted in a letter, handed to the Swiss Ambassador, "We have reliable documents and evidence that this terrorist act was planned, guided and supported by the CIA. The documents clearly show that this terrorist act was carried out with the direct involvement of CIA-linked agents."

 

The Swiss Embassy represents the interests of the US, which broke diplomatic ties with Iran in 1979.

 

Iranian State TV said a "letter of condemnation" had also been sent to the British Government, contending that the killing of Iranian nuclear scientists had "started exactly after the British official John Sawers declared the beginning of intelligence operations against Iran".

And as for Nigeria, here is AP with the latest:

Nigeria's government and labor unions failed to end a paralyzing nationwide strike over high gasoline costs, potentially sparking an oil production shutdown in a nation vital to U.S. oil supplies.

 

It was not immediately clear early Sunday whether a major oil workers' union had gone ahead with its threat to have its members walk off their jobs starting at midnight in an effort to halt oil production. But the fact labor unions left quickly from their meeting with the government and no one announced when talks would resume raised concerns the impasse would see Nigeria go through more days of disruptive strikes.

 

Nigeria, which produces 2.4 million barrels of oil a day, is the fifth-largest oil exporter to the United States. Any disruption to oil production could roil the oil futures market at a time traders remain concerned about world supply.

 

President Goodluck Jonathan did not show up for a meeting with union representatives held Saturday night at the presidential villa in Nigeria's capital Abuja, nor did Vice President Namadi Sambo. Instead, the nation's Senate president and its House speaker represented the government along with other officials.

 

After the meeting, Nigeria Labor Congress President Abdulwaheed Omar told waiting journalists: "We have not reached a compromise."

 

Asked whether oil production would immediately halt, Omar said: "We are taking these things gradually.

As for next steps, here is an idea.

Libya - before:

and after...

Nigeria - before:

after:

 

?

 


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Sat, 01/14/2012 - 23:22 | Link to Comment Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Obama, Hilary, Panetta.

Absolute fucking amateurs.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 23:33 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

You think the oilgarchs would have anyone in there that gives a shit!  The named are there for a reason:  to fuck everything up!  What better way to fuck everything up than to have a bunch of clowns running the big top.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 23:46 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

amateurs isn't the right word; dilettantes

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 00:52 | Link to Comment Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

TOM BRADY & PATRIOTS    = 100

TIM TEBOW & BRONCOS   = ZER0

 

BWAH HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA!

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 01:47 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

The Patriots are not a team they are a machine...

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 02:31 | Link to Comment fnord88
fnord88's picture

all this interesting and relevant info, there for those that choose to reject the official lies and go looking for truth.

 

The fact that TPTB have not yet censored the web, is, quite frankly, amazing. Their power will wane if they continue to allow us access to such information. Whose betting mysterious "Iranian" hackers crash the energy grid or some such shit at the same time as the war starts, thus proving the web needs to be controlled.

 

Oh, and that will be the best case scenario. Worst case they just start shooting bloggers in the head.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 03:28 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

fnor, its' because the web does not matter enough yet. The percentage of people that are Booking their faces and twittering and Circling their +'s far far outnumber ZHers or TruthDiggers or any other alternative.

Still fringe. Kooky. First, they will take over the blogsphere by buying prominent bloggers off/out. They did it with that rag, Puffington Post as an example. 

It's all monetization till they feel the consequences outweigh the risk. After that, it's game on.

We have months perhaps at most. India is already at war with bloggers who say bad things about politicians. Bad bad bloggers.

The press is still supremely powerful because:

1) They were bought out a looooong time ago (see link below)

2) same channel provides entertainment AND news. It is easy enough to con-found the two in the case of simple, Sleeple minds (thanks The4th stooging, it's Sleeple from now)...

3) There is someone for everyone on the MSM spectrum. From Porn to Philosophy. 

And by the way, no shootng needs doing. Just Google Rik Clay.

ori

/meet-the-press/

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 07:08 | Link to Comment Fluffybunny
Fluffybunny's picture

It was most probably Mossad again, pretending to be CIA.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 11:52 | Link to Comment Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture

Bond. James Bond.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 09:55 | Link to Comment ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

No worriesl turn off your TV and get busy building local relationships while their $$ADD$$ tool doesn't buy the proper level of US Constitutional coruption.

Winning gets easier as the stupidity gets more difficult to begin to relate as a believable narrative.

Eric Place Holder only feels the passion of justice on issues of possible democratic voter supression as you might expect by only looking at the data.

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:04 | Link to Comment agent default
agent default's picture

Indeed, and I don''t think it ever will.  Given choice of what to read, people will tend to read the things that agree with their already pre made opinions.  Very rarely will people become skeptics because of something they read on some site.  Case in point:  How many people here on ZH became doubtful of the present financial system because of ZH?  Most of us here already thought the system was a sham long before we found ZH.  Maybe we didn't have  as much information as now, but we already suspected/refused to toe the CNBC line.  The web is dangerous mainly in the sense of organizing like minded people, not in the way of changing peoples minds.  And it that sense, the PTB would rather prefer it stayed open and provide them with early warning of any future unrest, than deal with the old fashioned quiet fermentation of trouble of the past centuries.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:24 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Thought provoking POV there Agent D.

ori

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:59 | Link to Comment LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

In the Absence of the Sacred

Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television

Jerry Mander

 

the medium allows a particular interface.

it also allows monitoring.

a controller does not want to exclude from the monitored channel, but include.

all is allowed, as long as you play it inside the box.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 11:51 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

i would take an opposite view--although i'm not disagreeing with you ORI at all. The fact as i see is this: "trillions." That's how much money has been made since the "World Wide WEB" has been deployed. To me the most critical decision in its DEPLOYMENT was the break up of AT&T by a Federal Judge. Hence my absolute belief that the ".com" space has been a government creation since day one. My view is that the so called open-ness was the most critical component to the..."use"...of the "web" as a "total information awareness" system. Hence my argument is that "this weapon is probably too effective" and why elements of the government are now trying to "shut it down." As an aside and an alternative i would recommend...as the economy continues to veer from slamming into the wall on the right then slamming into the wall on the left...is to invest in AT&T. Gotta a real high yield...and if the government can't figure it out...AT&T will..."as a reconstituted monopoly" if necessary. Good posts.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 12:10 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Likewise DA, good points all.

ori

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 17:36 | Link to Comment LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

can we all agree that the best course of action would be to kill A-Jad and the mullahs then confiscate the oil?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:04 | Link to Comment JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Worst case they just start shooting bloggers in the head.

Please start with MDB.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 11:57 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

...Whose betting mysterious "Iranian" hackers crash the energy grid or some such shit at the same time as the war starts, thus proving the web needs to be controlled.

Iranian terrorist hackers, in collusion with Ron Paul extremist Libertarians. We have documentary evidence!

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 01:51 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

The war on Iran by Israel and the US will escalate.

Retaliation by Iran on Israel will be so devastating, Tehran will be nuked.

Rogue nuclear powers will provide a nuclear attack on Tel Aviv.

At least Israel will be gone too.

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 02:23 | Link to Comment Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

+1

 

For looking on the brightside...

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:14 | Link to Comment Treason Season
Treason Season's picture

Being no fan of Israel should not blind one to the fact the counry is nothing but a tool for nwo purposes. To assume the destruction of Rothschild's creation is somehow beneficial for the world is naive at best and a trolling deversion at worst.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 11:03 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Aslam Alekem Brothers.

Any women to stone or gays to flog today?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 04:18 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

And the nuclear fallout will flow gently East with the jetsteam over China and Russia, who will be really pleased, and then out over the Pacific to the good old US of A. Good luck.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 08:39 | Link to Comment fallingman
fallingman's picture

Not with a bang but a whimper.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:05 | Link to Comment JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

I dont think we really have to worry about nuclear fallout from Iran.  We will have plenty right here at home.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 15:49 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Well over a thousand nuke tests since 1944 a large % above ground, we are still here, take a deep breath relax..

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 05:13 | Link to Comment roy10
roy10's picture

And I'm sure you will be celebrating the nuking of Tel-Aviv. Won't you? Too bad that even after that happens, you will still wake up to live the life you're living right now, only you won't hev anybody to blame for it.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 05:48 | Link to Comment Traprock
Traprock's picture

Hmmm..... life we're living now, after your prescribed outcome. Sounds reasonable, I'm in.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 08:18 | Link to Comment bombimbom
bombimbom's picture

it's not like nuking or carpet bombing teheran is any better. i really hope Iran announcing they have reached military nuclear capacity soon so this criminal foolishness end (if I was russia I would have given them few dozens ready to be launched nuclear missiles already), israel quits bombing/invading other countries to maintain its status of unrivaled superpower in the region while keeping its many (not so secret) nukes to deter any aggression threatening its survival.

Iran having nukes is not a problem of Israel survival (they still have too many nukes ready to be launched), it's a problem of Israel maintaining its unmatched military capacity that allow them to keep their highly aggressive stance so they can easily keep a real palestinian state from being, keep dreaming of annexing the entire west bank, keep their internal nationalistic structure bordering racism.

USA would be forced to stop their foolish risk game and their futile attempt to keep their only superpower status started by the neocons.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 11:46 | Link to Comment Hard Assets
Hard Assets's picture

Good points.

I've been thinking of this business of Iran having nukes for a long time. For the life of me I cannot see how the "bad" outweighs the irrelevant.

All this war-mongering and it insures an attack on Israel, I believe, is not possible. Well I suppose its possible, but it guarantees that Iran "is wiped off the map". I sincerely believe Iran just wants to be left alone, "...fuck off and leave us alone !!"

North Korea was front page every day for a few years and what has happened in the last 3 or 4? Fuck, when was it now that the North joined the nuke club, 2008....2006? Can't even remember now ! Further, a couple years ago they had 2 bombs and now they have 5 and in a few years 10 (just picking numbers out of my ass). So does this make an attack on South Korea more and more likely? Hardly, one nuke or 10 launched also guarantees North Korea "wiped off the map". Another case of "leave us the fuck alone".

Over to Iraq. Hussein invades Kuwait, gets his ass kicked and has his country sanctioned and 'quarantined' for more than a decade. Then he STILL gets invaded under the guise of WMD production.

Move on to Libya. Gadhaffi gives up his WMD programs (all) and several years later gets "wiped off the map" for crimes much less than chasing nucs and selling oil for in a currency other than dollar. ( "crimes much less" as defined by Neo-cons)

So Iran now has significant historical precedent as it relates to North Korea, Iraq and Libya. Having oil and not a powerful defence (ie: nukes) leaves it in a very vulnerable position. So, their stated nuclear program as peaceful, does this encompass power generation, medical isotopes and nuclear bombs. Apparently, with the forementioned precedents, nuclear bombs would (might?) generate peace.

So now I keep thinking of this American neo-con foreign affairs policy as it relates to National Security (aka access to foreign oil). These policies drafted and implemented decades ago, seem to me, to be extremely outdated as we teeter on the edge of peak oil. So the neo-cons float the sanction Iranian oil balloon and it gets shot down within days. Japan and the EU would like to join in on the fun but they ask, "...just where the fuck do we get the replacement oil?" As you say, the timing of $5 gas is a non-starter and they (neo-cons) back off.

Whoops ! Looks like the short term plan needs to be revised. Problem is, as we teeter and tip off the peak of oil the medium term gets worser ! The long term oil 'plan' is already crystal clear, there is none !

Trouble is, as time rolls on and the oil problem becomes more tenuous, yahoos like Chavez get to pick and choose who to sell oil to. One ugly day not too far into the future Chavez will wake up and declare, "...the Americans have treated us like shit for 30 years, they are no longer a customer, all of our oil goes to Asia. China is a preferred customer, anything left over can be sold to our 2nd and 3rd tier customers and finally to America (and probably at a non-preferred price!)"

So the neo-cons are not only brazen war-mongers but are incredibly short-sighted as well. Maybe a little of something else as well. Cheney, "...let's bomb the bastards like we did last week, last month and last year. Maybe this time they will listen and we will get the desired result."

It's really getting fucking old.

Here's a queer question/thoughts. I've heard it asked a dozen times, why/how is Iran in a position to be so aggressive? Do they already have the bomb? Is there an explicit agreement between Iran and China, or Russia?

Hmmm? Let's say I am Chinese, Iran is a major supplier of oil to my country and the west is sabre rattling big time. Further, I am going to require more oil over time and clearly it is impossible for China to be part of this Iranian oil sanction business. Iran cannot be de-stabilized, I will protect it.

So it is possible that China has supplied Iran with nukes? China has stated, at least to some degree, that it will join in on the excitement, even if it leads to WWIII.

Let's go a retarded step further. Let's (China?) give Iran a dozen nukes, set them up in Iran but we control the launch of these bombs.  I mean, thats probably way too far out in the tin foil zone but what do we really know for sure from both sides of the fence.

I know a couple things for sure.

US/UK/Israel will not be able to waltz into Iran as what happened in Iraq. There will be major ramifications. Second, the foreign affairs/policies of the neo-con flavor will not and does not work anymore.

  

 

 

 

 

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 21:35 | Link to Comment sullymandias
sullymandias's picture

Assets, I like your comments, but only if Obama counts as a neo-con too.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:33 | Link to Comment smb12321
smb12321's picture

It sounds like you're overjoyed by the prospective events. Such a catastrophe would kill tens of millions and lead to collapse of society in many areas. What is it with ZH posters - defending a brutal regime like Iran as if they were innocent folks singing Kumbaya instead ot fanatical thugs torturing religious and political foes?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 14:31 | Link to Comment frostfan
frostfan's picture

SMB,

 

This place is all  they got.  Somehow they think they find a website part extrememly savvy financial information part political hysteria that suddenly they're the smartest people on the planet.  That and AIDS members or Anti Israel Derangment Syndrome people flock to this place.  

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 15:42 | Link to Comment SonnySkyy
SonnySkyy's picture

The propaganda you see here mirrors the propaganda you see on RT. I guess that means Tyler Durden is Vladimir Putin... macho motherfucker that he is.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 16:51 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

You do know Israel is a country full of psychopaths too don't you?

After the launch their first nuke on Iran, other countries will have to stop them from using many more.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 21:37 | Link to Comment sullymandias
sullymandias's picture

"defending a brutal regime like Iran as if they were innocent folks singing Kumbaya instead ot fanatical thugs torturing religious and political foes"

and I suppose you find the US government to be a lot better than that...

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:43 | Link to Comment smore
smore's picture

Gotta love the irony:

"In many ways, Israel already resembles Iran more than Europe. It is a country where there is no civil marriage, and where rabbis rule on weddings and divorces. It is also a country where ultra-orthodox schoolchildren learn neither mathematics nor English, where every kindergarten and every military battalion has a rabbi, and where an infrastructure minister wants to place power plants under the supervision of rabbis so that even electricity will be in compliance with religious purity laws."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,808252,00.html

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 11:10 | Link to Comment smb12321
smb12321's picture

Yeah, the situation is indeed dire.   All those Israelis being called to prayer, reported if they miss temple, calling out to the Lord for divine guidance.  Obviously, you've never been to Israel - one of the most secular nations on Earth.  What you didn't "report" (as if this were earthshaking news) is that those things apply only to Orthodox.  The non-religious and "just don't care" go on their merry way ignoring all the god crap..

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 13:02 | Link to Comment King_of_simpletons
King_of_simpletons's picture

What you have said happens in every country. There are ultra orthodox people who want everybody to live in a certain way and have no tolerance for other ways of life and a secular set of people who defy those edicts. It is not limited to Israel or Iran. The trouble is when one country is hell bent upon portraying the other as kooks and is ready to wage a war on an entire population, when they have the same problem in their own backyard with an accompanying justification that sane people do not understand.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 18:25 | Link to Comment smore
smore's picture

Obviously you are not clairvoyant, as I have visited Israel several times.  Ever been to the West Bank? I have. This isn't my "report", it's DER SPIEGEL, idiot.

"All those Israelis being called to prayer, reported if they miss temple, calling out to the Lord for divine guidance."???
WTF are you talking about?  Did I say that? Is it in the article? 

For your edification, here's another recent article on the joys of life in "one of the most secular nations on Earth" LMFAO!

"The episode caused Orthodox women, in particular, to express indignation at the growing extremism of religious men in public life.

“This was a public event involving a deputy minister of state,” said Dr. Hanna Kehat, the director of Kolekh, an organization of professional religious women, in an interview with Israel Radio. “This is an incidence of gross discrimination, which is prohibited by law and it is difficult to believe actually took place. We are advancing at a rapid pace toward Iran.”

http://www.salon.com/2011/12/09/the_assault_on_israeli_womens_rights/

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 14:27 | Link to Comment frostfan
frostfan's picture

So one jerkoff writes an article about a very small minority of the Israeli population estimated in the hundreds and suddenly Israel is like Iran?   Damn the accuracy, I gotta blame Israel!!!!!!    Oh well, at least it's worth a bunch of green arrows salivating for anything to criticze Israel about.  You know them, the AIDS members or Anti Israel Derangement Syndrome people?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:25 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

People who call America home should worry more about the welfare of our own country as opposed to the welfare of people who live in other countries we don't own.

No more Big Taxpayer Government please.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 01:52 | Link to Comment wanklord
wanklord's picture

The Soetoro administration and the Zionist warmongers are running out of time now that the world knows very well their wicked intentions of igniting a war in the Persian Gulf of unpredictable consequences. FALSE FLAG is now the word of the day, and everything will point to Israel regardless the location of the upcoming SELF-INFLICTED WOUND.

POTENTIAL FALSE FLAG EVENTS:
1. Israeli submarines deployed in the Sea of Oman will sink an American warship navigating close to the Strait of Hormuz - an attack to subsequently be blamed on Iran. Most likely one of these Zionist navy submarines (Type 800 Dolphin class) is already operating in the Sea of Oman:
INS Dolphin
INS Livyathan
INS Tekumah

2. Another option that could help to justify the upcoming war against the Islamic Republic of Iran is staging another false flag attack on continental United States: a controlled nuclear explosion (dirty bomb) targeting a major urban concentration that may kill dozens of thousands of civilians. This operation will be carried out by the CIA in partnership with Israel's Mossad and British MI6 to later on be blamed on AlQaeda working in conjunction with elements of Iran’s IRGC and Pakistan’s ISI.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 02:28 | Link to Comment Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

I hope we are getting to a stage of awareness, where the public will not be spoonfed another bullshit false flag event. 

C'mon military, there's got to be a Smedley Butler somewhere...

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 04:15 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

@Wanker Lord

And I suppose this will be the fault of the "69 generation who are, in your opinion, all deparved, drug addled gay perverts? You were less than lucid today?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 05:16 | Link to Comment roy10
roy10's picture

So they have web connection at the asylum now?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 11:21 | Link to Comment smb12321
smb12321's picture

LOL.  I only began reading comments recently and it IS like a crazy house - extolling Iran, bashing Jews and delivering elaborate, nefarious plots with links to Youtube for all the juicy details.  How plausible is it that they've learned the "truth" when the NYT, FOX, CNN, Drudge, WSJ, etc are clueless? Guess reporter need to come to the ZH comment section to learn the "real truth".  Do you laugh or cry?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 11:56 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Pravda=Truth

You would have made a good Soviet.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 15:44 | Link to Comment SonnySkyy
SonnySkyy's picture

RT = Truth

You are a good Soviet.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 11:58 | Link to Comment New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"Do you laugh or cry?"

Nyet, tovarich.  Feet up, favorite beverage nearby.  OBEY WB7 liquid warnings!

Unfortunately, quality of current trolldom is really weak-assed.

- Ned

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 14:41 | Link to Comment frostfan
frostfan's picture

SMB,

You want a comedy.  Get into with them on 9/11.  They'll send you link to youtube videos of Israelis speaking Hebrew  but translated by someone into English with words that don't twist was said in Hebrew into English,  they'll send you links of dead 54 year old black men who died because they "heard' something not "saw" something suspicious.  Everything's a mystery as if there were no planes.  Apparently thousand of people showed up and lined all the buildings with explosives and no one talked no one saw anything but twentysomething Israelis working as movers (because oh yeah, Israeli movers in NYC area is nonextistent which is sarcasm if you don't live in the area) looking at the sight are instantly guilty of anything and everything?  Automatically, every negative accusation on them is truth even though they don't know what they're supposed to be guilty of.   The AIDS people here are basically an assclown convention to make you laugh.  They're like the guys still counting the Ohio ballots in 2004 looking to give the election to Kerry.

Read Tyler and Reggie's stories and accept that Tyler goes a little too far looking for every conspiracy.  The guy George Washington just makes them up.

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 18:02 | Link to Comment smb12321
smb12321's picture

One can oppose war without becoming a mouthpiece for thugs.  The Gulf Wars were a mistake but that didn't mean Iraq was an oasis of liberty. At the core, it's Christian antisemitism.  These guys wouldn't know a Euro from a Pound but they can quote chapter and verse on the Jewish conspiracy for world domination.  I've heard them go on about the Vatican-Saudi-Israeli "secret" pact, Rothschild Satanuc worship, Illuminati, central banks and Marxism...all somehow connected.  And what about 911, UFOs and California concentration camps.  The lack of critical thinking is astounding.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:10 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Just more retarded wanklord copy-and-paste. He's changed it up a little bit, because the first paragraph looks new, but the rest of it is the same re-regurgitated garbage.

If you want to see how far and how long wanklord has been flinging this crap, just do a google search for the following (include the quotation marks to search for the exact phrase):

"controlled nuclear explosion (dirty bomb)"

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 02:03 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Recent excerpt from full-page Iranian Help-Wanted Ad.....................

"For immediate hire:   Nuclear Physicist.   Must have no nuclear family.   Little to no desire to live a plus.   Involuntary severance package."

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:51 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

Dilettantes...I like it.  Very appropriate in the situation.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 00:00 | Link to Comment Korbin Dallas
Korbin Dallas's picture

Bombardier Nixon had Kissinger as a foil.  Our gang consists of peas in pds.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 00:07 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

you really think that kissinger and associates is not still calling the shots?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 01:26 | Link to Comment UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Nixon made snowmobiles?  And airplanes?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 13:41 | Link to Comment agent default
agent default's picture

For the purposes of this thread, yes.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 12:10 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Nemesis - The little ironies in history are well worth savoring, for example, the number of career diplomats in the US foreign services who voted for Obama thinking everything unicorns would shit skitles and they could finally accomplish good, only to find themselves dusting of their despised Dr. Kissinger's playbook, and re-enacting the "I'd love to help and reach an agreement, but that crazy guy in the White House..."

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 00:01 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

And yet they know more about what is going on than you do. 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 00:22 | Link to Comment CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Good luck, Jonathan....RIP.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 00:58 | Link to Comment matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

GOOD LUCK GOODLUCK!!! 

You have a deadly shake hand with the empire squids...think you already signed your end of earthly journey. RIP!!

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 05:18 | Link to Comment gerald.steiner@...
gerald.steiner@gmail.com's picture

Santorum says killing Americans good, but killing Iranians is wonderful > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0imqLFtPk4s

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:45 | Link to Comment Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Is there anything that Obama can toucht that won't blow up?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:15 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Azannoth asked:

Is there anything that Obama can toucht that won't blow up?

Take a look at his wife's ass - that should answer your question.

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 13:30 | Link to Comment e2thex
e2thex's picture

...another day in paradise.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 23:21 | Link to Comment oogs66
oogs66's picture

China putting troops in Nigeria to protect their interests will be the surprise of 2012

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 23:47 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

i will laugh when they treat the aborigines FAR WORSE than whitey ever did

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 01:19 | Link to Comment Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

Impossible. Whites have behaved in an incredibly depraved and barbaric manner as far as Africans are concerned, so the best the Chinese can do is equal it.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 03:40 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

That's some pretty wild white guilt you have there.  What harm did the whites ever do to Africa, aside from conquest?

And before you say "slavery", remember that whites only BOUGHT slaves from AFRICAN slave traders.  Not that that is an excuse.  It's just that they really never did that much harm.  All they did was overthrow brutal dictatorships and institute Westernized law, with varying degrees of oppression (but none but the Italians in Somalia and Ethiopia were any worse than the governments they conquered), where the descendent nations have prospered or withered according to the degree to which they continued to follow those traditions.

If you want to see brutality, look to the Japanese occupation of Manchuria, or the Mongols, when they took ANY nation.

There is a lot of resentment towards Europeans as colonialists.  Though much of it is deserved, those people who rail against the colonialists always seem to forget about the way things were before.  Generally, there was such terrible oppressive darkness that it was as though there WASN'T any history before the Europeans arrived.  Aggressive repression to the point that there wasn't even enough knowledge to put pen to paper to record the crimes.  Thus, the idea of the "noble savage" has taken root, in the absence of a chronicle of the pure, unbridled evil of unlimited aggressive force unleashed in every direction until all capital was expended, and continuing such that no new capital could be accumulated.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 04:29 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Two werdz:  "Belgian Congo"

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 05:58 | Link to Comment Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

brits built the first auschwich in africa, not for the natives but to house the (white) boer families.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 08:18 | Link to Comment Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

All I can say are "Libertarians" like you are the reason Capitalism is currently crashing. You couldn't temper your "free market" with social liberalism. By that I mean, you just kill people and steal their shit. You force people into poverty, then refuse to give them welfare. You buy black slaves from black slave traders and think that absolves you from being a racist. You could have never built any of the pathetic shit you have without stealing from the locals wherever you went. You're a piece of white trash who deserves to be tortured the way the Africans were tortured. Hopefully soon, thanks to NDAA, you will be, you dumb redneck piece of shit. Get ready for people like you to die off very, very quickly. As usual, this is the type of garbage you run into on a site that looks up to Ron Paul. Lots and lots of racists.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:00 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

One other werd: Francafrique. 40 years of selective economic mayhem and two local wars, Biafra and French Congo civil war. Plus gulity French military presence besides the Hutu elements in Rwanda genocide  tragedy. "We didn't participate, but we didn't do anything to stop it, it was beyond us. Ok, ok; our French aid was used to buy those machettes, print those ethnic IDs, promote Radio milles collines...". And...Shell shenanigans in Nigeria, and... blood diamonds in Liberia/Sierra Leone. Have others, who buy your arms do the dirty work so that you can get diamonds. Never ending story of economic rape and surrogate brutal regimes paid to keep the sheeple poor and docile, inspite of inordinate local mineral/oil wealth. All this after centuries of slave trade...yes, now lets see its not like the colonial whites were NAzis...

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 13:09 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

god damn, you are fuckin stupid.

Blood diamonds?

Is AFRICA the only place diamonds are mined?  Why isn't AUSTRALIA a war zone because of diamonds?

the ONLY PLACE that this type of shit happens over things like this is in AFRICA.  Only in AFRICA does a diamond mine equal a civil war!

Why the fuck do you mudsharks blame whitey for the SLAUGHTER of africans BY africans?  It's OUR fault because we buy the diamonds but not THEIR fault because they buy the arms and like to slaughter each other...got it.

EVERYTHING is whitey's fault.  Blacks are TOTALLY innocent despite committing more than 50% of homicides each and every year in the USA.  ALL of that is someone else's fault.  EVERY failure of blacks to amount to anything is the fault of someone else.

Meanwhile the diamond mines everywhere else are just business operations.  TIA

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 14:44 | Link to Comment frostfan
frostfan's picture

Trav,

You mean you're not a believer that only CIA and Mossad kill people?   You'll never get 50 green arrows that way.

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 17:07 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

Cos  dear racist, whose words are as eloquent as those of a urban rat crying from his festering, puss laden mouth, as if it was proxy from hIs meager ass, your pretentious uber alles racist talk is off base as usual; the sons of the convict race of whites, the words are not mine but those of British Colonial office of the times, gestapoed the Aboriginals in good ole Australia herding them into a dying breed of reservation outcasts. The lands were now theirs as all its hidden treasures. Just like in good ole USA, remember...those natives of Jefferson's lands, and what became of them. Manifest destiny...

But those black leaders in Africa like that Liberian leader, Samuel Doe, blue eyed boy of State Department/CIA, was a typical arms bazar product, like his successor Charles Taylor, bred in Good ole USA as a sure anti pinko, colt carrying revolutionary.  Just like what the French and the Brits did in their own territories, the US actively promoted military regimes, provided they were western leaning AND BOUGHT ARMS in Africa; ripe with the contrarian Cuban marxist revolution in Angola, emblematic nightmare for US African continent control freaks of the MIC elite. 

Pulling strings from the Pentagon and the CIA is an old game to keep the natives cowered and loyal, and who cares what they do with the arms they buy; nine chances are they'll turn it on their own people, it never fails. 

Thats what we call neo colonialism of the twentieth century. Live and learn festering mouthpiece of racist germination.

I take no pleasure in writing these words. Apologies to all for tone of diatribe, but this guy is a multiple poster of  persistantly slanted slime.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 12:06 | Link to Comment Zero Debt
Zero Debt's picture

"Blaming the libertarians for crashing capitalism"

Never saw that one before. So can you kindly exemplify how libertarianism crashes the economy, specifically? Not enough aggregate demand from war spending?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 12:43 | Link to Comment Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

No he cannot.  His post was ridiculously ignorant.  I expect nothing that makes any sense to come after it.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 14:47 | Link to Comment frostfan
frostfan's picture

They're all so smart blaming whitey or jew for all the world's problems.   The majority of people here think Iran and North Korea are superior ways of governing because they have no jews in their leadership.  Sigh, more red arrows for me.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 13:50 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Capitalism consumed itself, or more precisely, the middle class.... Marx understood this very well and predicted it  (Marx's  counterproposal was even more flawed, but that is another story)... 

Hey, I guess you guys all think Corporate Feudalism is the cat's ass of political economic theories,,,

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 13:03 | Link to Comment percolator
percolator's picture

Lost Wages, get your facts straight.  The US does NOT currently have a capitalistic system or "Free Markets" - the US has become a Kleptocracy / Fascist state and this did NOT come about because of Libertarians. Ron Paul & Jon Huntsman are the only Republican presidential candidates who truly support capitalism.  Obama and every other Republican running for president are nothing but fascists and they're the ones who are stealing.  NO Libertarian supported NDAA, only liberal and conservative fascists voted for this unconstitutional act.

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 13:06 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

fuck you, mudshark.

We stole the moon lander from the injuns, the airplane and everything else, huh?

Whitey has GIVEN MORE to the people he's "conquered" than anyone else in the history of the world.

Were we blacks or asians or hispanics, we'd have WIPED OUT COMPLETELY all traces of the existence of the conquered.  Instead, whitey tries to educate and civilize savages who lack writing, the wheel, mechanical devices.  Whitey BESTOWS all this and even permits opportunity for savages who win the genetic lottery.

Everything you have or do is creditable to WHITE MEN.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 13:45 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

 I love your black outs on the white subject. Yes whitey invented everything and keeps savages, defined by pigment, from falling off the civilization cliff. And wait, girls don't count. Feel like a man now?

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 12:25 | Link to Comment Matrix R Us
Matrix R Us's picture

Maybe we should have wiped them out. Even today Africa remains the ass of the world as it always was and will continue to be.

As someone who had a grandfather (doctor) and father (teacher) in Angola before the country gained independence I can't do nothing but laugh at how deeply fucked blacks where after they scared most whites away from the country leaving the country so deprived of educated people that elevators stopped working in many buildings. It's clear to me that the bright moment in African history was white colonization and since the end of it Africa has been reversing whatever development was done by white people.

 

 

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 12:16 | Link to Comment Matrix R Us
Matrix R Us's picture

What a tool, Im sorry white people are intelectually superior to blacks on average, maybe we should have never entered Africa and today they would still be running around killing each other with stone spears, showcasing the genius technology of black civilization.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 13:03 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

wtf...did you start doing research?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 08:58 | Link to Comment spankfish
spankfish's picture

 

 

 

 

 

I suggest you read Hugh Thomas. 

The SLAVE TRADE: THE STORY OF THE ATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE: 1440 - 1870

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 13:52 | Link to Comment Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

Hugh Thomas notoriously overlooks the significant Jewish component of the slave trade.  Think ROman times, think Brazil, South Carolina, New York.

 

That is why he is trotted our on occasions like this.  His account is "kosher".

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 14:50 | Link to Comment frostfan
frostfan's picture

Exactly.  As compared to the insignifact Christian Muslim and black participaton, correct?  All those groups were fucking angels and victims in the slave trade industry

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 12:08 | Link to Comment Matrix R Us
Matrix R Us's picture

Whites made Africa what it is today, before we colonized sub-saharan Africa the damn place had no civilization that could compare to ours.

My ancestors did many wrong things but overall colonization benefited EVERYONE and black people should thank us for all we did, specially after all the anti-white feeling and kickiing whites out of Africa.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:24 | Link to Comment ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Our Founding Fathers knew about checks and balances. When the US or any other group creates a vacuum of trade, new friends of strength will quickly fill it ....and throughout  all recorded History and as a Law of Human Nature which has been proven to be a Constant in the calculus of the living game.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 23:24 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

At least we haven't burnt down any of Iran's steel framed skyscrapers with jet fuel.  That really pisses people off.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 23:25 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Jet fuel can't melt steel!  Oh wait, I see what you did there.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 23:48 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

you guys aren't real strong in physics, i gather...

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 23:52 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

...true, the ballistics of the JFK assassination never did make much sense to me.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 05:06 | Link to Comment Incubus
Incubus's picture

Watch "Evidence of Revision"  I dare you.

 

I double dare you.

 

No, triple mother-fuckin' dare you to watch ALL of it.

and all of it in one sitting, if you've got cojones.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 12:06 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Youtube says 9 hours long. That wiould be like watching the entire "Lord of the Rings" by Peter Jackson in one sitting. That's not cojones, that's idiotic.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:08 | Link to Comment ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

The Dr. StrangeLove AssassinKissassinger World began on the afternon on November 22, 1963. Any expectation of US funding for pure Science died that day. The world domination to protect resources by any means necessary narrative won the auction to provide Science from that day forward.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:39 | Link to Comment GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Riiight. Darwin was 'objective' - a 'pure' science stating that 'nature' awards and upholds the fittest by a British aristocrat who only managed to work about three hours a day while having his wife calm his anxiety attacks in social situations. Pretending the laissez faire propagation had nothing to due with the dominance of this bogus claim is always convenient for the Anglo-fascists.

But yeah, you're right, science died on November 22nd 1963. How... how... incredibly scientific.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 12:12 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Have you read any Rupert Sheldrake? I'm not a follower (or even believer) but I find his ideas interesting. He is an uncommon example of a "scientist" who is willing to challenge the scientific consensus on evolutionary biology, without a "scientific creation" orientation. Most of the scientific community thinks he's a wacko.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 12:48 | Link to Comment GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

I have not, however that wasn't my point. Evolutionary biology isn't what I'm refuting here only the dogma of supposed 'scientific' theory and the sycophants like Dennett and Dawkins who propagate nonsensical superficial understanding of biology. Also, Darwin's supposed 'independence of mind' when much of his work relied heavily on Lamarck. It has degenerated into dogma that lies outside scientific inquiry and belongs in the realm of religious worship. Feel free to step outside the binary viewpoint and read another take:

http://www.rae.org/dendar.html

http://www.amazon.com/Lamarcks-Signature-Retrogenes-Changing-Selection/d...

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 12:57 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

No, I got it. That was my observation as well.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 13:13 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

That's how evolution works.

You don't understand what "fit" means and are misapplying it.  Typical.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 13:24 | Link to Comment GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Incorrect. I understand perfectly, semantics aside, 'fitness' has been interpreted in different ways mostly as adaptability. None stand. Read Berlinski's articel and stop spewing nonsense based on nothing but your own fear.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:45 | Link to Comment Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

Which sadly means the end of discovering new resources, the end of the space program, and an eventual return to the dark ages as open investigation is actively suppressed.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 11:09 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Yes the US was behind 9/11 but then somehow just forgot to plant WMD's in Iraq.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 00:25 | Link to Comment Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

The Fifth Element - Negotiations Scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spw4QycSj4k (1:13)

+ a catchy tune...

Fifth Element Taxi Chase
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJhlD6q71YA (2:34)

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 09:51 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

Goldilocks hi! 

What happened to that caper on Dragon family gold? No news on this side of the pond.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 01:54 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

better than your expertise in NORAD, flight schools, the Pentagon missle defense system and a host other subjects. If there was only one piece of questionable evidence, an open inquiry, and steel left to test, you'd have a point. 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 14:04 | Link to Comment thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

www.ae911truth.org

Far more credible than anything out of NIST. Government has never even made a serious attempt at explaining the collapse of WTC7.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 01:08 | Link to Comment rehypothecator
rehypothecator's picture

A blacksmith's fire can't melt steel either, but it isn't necessary to melt the steel in order to have it lose enough strength to be able to work it. 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 01:17 | Link to Comment economics1996
economics1996's picture

Why argue with idiots? 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 01:32 | Link to Comment Maxter
Maxter's picture

Yea is there still anyone  who think AlCIAda is being this?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 02:24 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Why argue with idiots? 

I agree! I watched WTC building 7 collapse into its own footprint after being loaded with finacial documents, insured mere weeks earlier, and hit with wet smacks of falling bodies.  I, for one, believe everything I am told, and more!! I strive to be as smart as you!

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 03:53 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

RIght, surely intense fires never flow through preexisting tunnels and undermine foundations.  Surely that isn't a thousand year old technique for collapsing buildings from below (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_(military)).

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 05:04 | Link to Comment Rick64
Rick64's picture

In order for it to fall (WTC 7) symetrically the fire would have to weaken the support columns equally so they would all fail at the same time. Not likely.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 05:17 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Why argue with idiots?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 11:15 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

I know you are super slow but contray to their own declarations, not many rocket surgeons and brain scientists posting on the internet, so why post on the internet is the more salient question.

I have posted this 426 times in between the zionista and bankster hate.

The US was obviously behind 9/11, same entity that can not deliver the mail properly or plow the roads effectively was definitly behind 9/11.

They just forgot the plant the WMDS in Iraq, something about 1million times easier than pulling off 9/11 and it wasn't like republicans retaining power hinged on it or anything.

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 14:54 | Link to Comment frostfan
frostfan's picture

Don't forget Cash for Clunkers or $8k first time homebuyer credit or HAMP.   But getting hundreds if not thousands or people involved in a conspiracy to take out the WTC and cover it up with Arabs on planes, no problem.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 14:54 | Link to Comment frostfan
frostfan's picture

Don't forget Cash for Clunkers or $8k first time homebuyer credit or HAMP.   But getting hundreds if not thousands or people involved in a conspiracy to take out the WTC and cover it up with Arabs on planes, no problem.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 09:48 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

Saladin used greek fire in 1179 to achieve that at Jacobs Ford Castelet, built by the Templars. I was there! ....I have many proxies. Not saying Greek fire did it on WTC 7...it came down all sudden! 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 03:54 | Link to Comment Athena
Athena's picture

Why argue with idiots?

George Carlin said, "Think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!"

How can markets have rational pricing in a nut house?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:43 | Link to Comment smb12321
smb12321's picture

As an engineer I've given up with the Truthers.  They're so driven with their various agendas (antisemitism, hatred of government, conspiracies everywhere, Illuminati, etc) that they fashion their arguments to further the agenda.  The trouble is they can't even agree among themselves as to what happened. 

The hijackers were (1) brainwashed CIA agents, (2) Mossad agents (3) actors recruited (4) never got on the plane (5) are alive now (6) it was all a grand media conspiracy. 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 12:11 | Link to Comment agent default
agent default's picture

How about this for a conspiracy theory:  It is easy to find a few lunatics of any particular obsession.  It is easy to manipulate and guide them towards doing something spectacular for their cause.  Once you set this mechanism in motion, the outcome is predictable.  You don't even have to tell them exactly what to do, just tell them that something has to be done, and let them surprise you with their inventiveness.  The question about 9/11 is not if a bunch of Islamic loonies did it, the question is who designed and set the mechanism in motion, and who has the benefit of plausible denial. 

Not that I am implying anything all about that global intelligence agency alphabet soup guarding the freedom of the world, or something along these lines.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 12:44 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

like your list, the term "truthers," is worthless and of course, misleading. Truthers, like people, seem to come from every walk of life and expertise. To claim I know all the answers is as silly as throwing out the term "engineer" as if that grants you some analytical trump card. Turns out that crazy day requires expertise in a number of "engineering" fields but as I'm sure you know, the expert witness list doesn't stop there does it? No it turns out we need to listen to people who know all sorts of things  from planes and pilots and defense systems to how a normal terrorist attack and crime scene and hijacking and plane wreck are investigated. Hell we might even need to listen to some criminal and psychological experts who have some interesintg observations on the governments statements, actions and admissions before during and after. In the end, it turns out that not only have a great number of "engineers" and architects come forward with some important questions but so have pilots, generals, scientists, victims, firemen, policemen, pentagon employees, street witnesses and a host of others. I guess you could say each has their own "agenda" which in your mind is damning enough because, at the other end, we all know our government carries none. At the end of it all, the term "truther" seems a better fit on folks who have stopped asking these ugly and important questions and then ridicule anyone who does.           

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 17:11 | Link to Comment jplotinus
jplotinus's picture

"As an engineer I've given up with the Truthers.  They're so driven with their various agendas (antisemitism, hatred of government, conspiracies everywhere, Illuminati, etc) that they fashion their arguments to further the agenda.  The trouble is they can't even agree among themselves as to what happened."

the poster can "give up" on truthers to his/her heart's content that said, the above is based on a faulty premise. In the first place, there exists no reliable investigative outcome that reliably confirms the common storyline of 9/11. Obviously the 9/11 Commission report does no such thing. There likewise exists no valid governmental determination of what or how the Twin Towers were destroyed. They obviously did not "collapse". The only person who has published an evidence based determination of what destroyed the WTC complex at a governmental website is Dr Judy Wood. Her evidence-based findings are published in a series of documents beginning at:

http://www.ocio.os.doc.gov/s/groups/public/@doc/@os/@ocio/@oitpp/documen...

Note what is being said here. This entire post consists in a posteriori claims that are verifiable. It is said, for instance, that it is obvious the 9/11 Commission does not confirm the common storyline. Three separate facts confirm this claim:
1-the co-chairs disabled their own report (Kean, Hamilton, "Without Precedent")
2-the general counsel of the commission likewise disavowed it (Farmer, "Ground Truth")
3-the commission turned over evidence of falsity to the Pentagon and DOT for prosecution, which, like bankster fraud, resulted in no charges being brought.

It is, therefore, meaningless to carp about so-called "truthers" disagreeing with each other. Small wonder. There is no valid publicly funded determination of what happensed, let alone of who did it, that anyone at all can point to. None, zero, zip, nada.

Hence "truthers" provide as much information in the aggregate as any other source.

Dr Judy Wood has published what happened at a governmental website.

I here assert that the military exercises taking place on 9/11 that had as the purpose and intent that of simulating the hijacking of aircraft and crashing them into buildings are a specific means by which the events of 9/11 could have been carried out. General Arnold, the officer ostensibly in charge of the simulation lied to the commission and was, in any event, not even privy to all details of the exercise in simulation.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 17:28 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Thanks. Unlike Kennedy's bad luck, too many people died, too many wars began, and too much cash and oil and blood have spilled for history to let this one go. I'm a romantic at heart, and hope I am alive to one day see some justice.   

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 01:58 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

and all those other steel structures that collapsed from fire prove your point.....

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 02:11 | Link to Comment UP Forester
Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:16 | Link to Comment Coast Watcher
Coast Watcher's picture

It helps to remember that half of everyone you meet are below average.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:40 | Link to Comment Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

but it isn't necessary to melt the steel in order to have

No, melting is not required.  But it does (for all you physics/engineering geniuses) have to reach a higher tempurature than an office fire for a longer period of time to enduce said "weakness".

I know, it makes for a nice (smart looking) reply to the fact that the fires were simply not hot enough to bring those buildings down.  Of course, everyone completely ignores the fact that at least 1/4 of the column should be standing if the collapes happened as described by the "professionals".

Anyone that cannot see the problems with the "official" 9/11 story is an absolute MORON..

I AM a Mechanical Engineer and work as one. I don't just play one on ZH..

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 11:32 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

I am an actuary, I don't just play one on ZH,

and the chances the US government had any involvement in 9/11 are between slim and none.

anyone who thinks otherwise is a moronic imbecile.

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 13:53 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

well that settles it then. Your honor the state will next call an expert witness whose subject matter has no relevance to the issues before this trier but will nevertheless give his opinion on the utlimate fact before this court  

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 03:49 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

And yet it can set carbonaceous material on fire, which then turns to charcoal, and burns at 2700 C.  Iron melts at 1375 C.

But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of your theories.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 05:21 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

You always go back to your theories about the buildings collapse when there are so many questions to the rest of the story.  How about the simple point that the hijackers couldn't fly airplanes.  How about that one.  How about that Cheney had the Air Force stand down.  But you know, the world's largest buildings fell into their own footprints because, uh, of fires.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 07:15 | Link to Comment mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Why argue with idiots?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 11:45 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

No doubt.

Afterall the US government pulling off such a scheme with not one government drone talking about it,

nor a single incriminating video frame or photograph,

coupled with live television.

the caveman obviously being unable to oppress the shit out of his women with Thelma and Louise encroaching on all borders.

 

and of course the no planting of WMDS in Iraq, an government willing to bomb it's own buildings is certainly corrupt enough to plant the WMDS it is not like they didn't matter.

That would make the chances the US government was involved in anyway, shape or form to less than .000001%.

which is the meat of the distribution for the deluded lunatics that inhabit this place.

so obviously YES, the US government was behind the attacks based on the expected ZH distributrion of doomsday moronic imbecile jackassness.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 23:10 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

the images of collapse are damning evidence you silly then again you're not a demolition expert just an actuary. so is the BBC anouncing tower 7 down fifteen minutes early, the size of the pentagon hole, the footage of firemen recalling all those explosions, the building owner saying he pulled it  and on and on and on. You're not very good at this

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 08:18 | Link to Comment chindit13
chindit13's picture

You are playing Whack-a-Mole.  As hard and as many times as you hammer the thing, it'll pop up again.  It's an admirable effort, but ultimately fruitless.  Only your sources are fallible, only they really know the truth.  You're an actual scientist, but they know real science.

I won't bother anymore to address the issues one by one, because---like that infernal game---they just keep popping up again and again.  Instead of fighting it, I now embrace it.  For instance, whenever I go to the beach on a hot day, I KNOW that Mossad agents have been there tossing around nanothermite.  How else could the parking lot asphalt get so hot and squishy on only a 90 degree day?  Also, I wonder when the heck Alex Jones is going to get in the face of that company Coleman, who sells those kerosene camping stoves, as if low burning temperature kerosene could ever boil water or do anything a camper needs.

Join me, tmosley.  Since the world seems hell bent on returning to the Dark Ages, we might as well bring "science" with us.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 12:07 | Link to Comment New_Meat
Sun, 01/15/2012 - 17:57 | Link to Comment Rick64
Rick64's picture

Lol. This is monumental, Chindit finally converted.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 23:06 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

nice try and once again an intellectually dishonest attempt to avoid and discredit by putting silly labels on a never ending list of questions you can not answer

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:16 | Link to Comment Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Oh my fucking god, that's weak.  People will absolutely bend over backwards not to see the truth.  It's just too frightening.  Dude, the Constitution is in absolute tatters.  The .gov is in full on rogue mode and is counting on your simple minded, obstinate belief in their flag waving goodness.  Carbonaceous material?!  That would be the office furniture I suppose?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 10:33 | Link to Comment Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

Facts are not the things you find floating around in your porcelain convenience after eating alpha-bits for breakfast. 

Jet fuel burns at a very high temperature in compressed air at 20+ atmospheres, and very poorly at 1 atmosphere with no ventilation. If you've ever watched a smithy forge a horseshoe, you'll notice that his carbon fire smolders along at a very dull red heat until he pumps some air into the forge.

Any time you see someone quote the "fact" that carbon burns at 2376.2 degrees, that person is either pulling the fact out of his ass or repeating someone else's fact from a similar source. The connecton of such "facts" with reality is sketchy at best.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 13:21 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

why are you citing "jet fuel" as if that was the only flammable material in the building?

There are SO MANY more plausible failure theories than what you imply

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 13:50 | Link to Comment Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

What other flammable material are you suggesting? Polyester? Or pentyl?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 17:12 | Link to Comment respect the cock
respect the cock's picture

When you take into consideration the content of each individual floor, the fire load was astounding.

Think of all the shit made out of plastic (computers, furniture, etc.), which is derived from oil and thus FUEL when decomposed under extreme heat.

Based on the smoke composition alone...there were a fuckload of BTUs pumping out of the building.

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