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Iran Makes First Nuclear Fuel Rods, Fires Mid-Range SAM In Retaliation For Full Blown US Financial Boycott

Tyler Durden's picture


The political press has been abuzz over the much anticipated signing of the NDAA by Barack Obama on Saturday: this move was not surprising because Obama had already made it clear he would go ahead and enact the law, even though he added some 'stern' language that is supposed to legitimize what some say is a precursor to the establishment of martial law in the US. To wit: "The fact that I support this bill as a whole does not mean I agree with everything in it. In particular, I have signed this bill despite having serious reservations with certain provisions that regulate the detention, interrogation, and prosecution of suspected terrorists." And yet he signed it (full text of Obama's statement on the NDAA, sent while on vacation in Hawaii, can be found here). Perhaps the reason for that unpopular move were some of the more nuanced contents of the Bill, among which is the decision to fully boycott not only Iran, but any bank, including central bank, and other financial institution found to deal with Iran. Which incidentally means most of Russia and China, and probably half of Europe, as all petrodollars generated by the country's petroleum export industry first have to make their way via the international financial community back into the country. The history buffs out there will realize that this form of couched antagonism is nothing short of the US approach to Japan during World War II, which was essentially provoked into attacking Pearl Harbor - read the details of the October 7, 1940 McCollum Memo here, and especially bullet point 10. And unfortunately, it appears that within 24 hours or so, Iran may have already taken the bait. As Reuters and BBC report, Iran has both test-fired a medium-range SAM during the ongoing wargames exercise previously discussed here, as well as made a formal announcement it has made and tested domestically made nuclear fuel rods: precisely the event that the Israel or US-borne Stuxnet was designed to prevent. So as the tennis match of escalation keeps on growing the ball is now once again in the US' court.

Here are some details on the wholesale Iranian financial boycott via Reuters.

U.S. President Barack Obama signed into law on Saturday a defense funding bill that imposes sanctions on financial institutions dealing with Iran's central bank, while allowing for exemptions to avoid upsetting energy markets. The sanctions target both private and government-controlled banks - including central banks - and would take hold after a two- to six-month warning period, depending on the transactions, a senior Obama administration official said.


Under the law, the president can move to exempt institutions in a country that has significantly reduced its dealings with Iran and in situations where a waiver is in the U.S. national security interest or otherwise necessary for energy market stability. He would need to notify Congress and waivers would be temporary, but could be extended.


Sanctioned institutions would be frozen out of U.S. financial markets.


"Our intent is to implement this law in a timed and phased approach so that we avoid repercussions to the oil market and ensure that this damages Iran and not the rest of the world," the senior U.S. official told Reuters.


Iran's central bank is the main conduit for Tehran's oil revenues.


Obama signed the bill during his vacation in Hawaii, just hours after Tehran said it had delayed planned long-range missile tests in the Gulf and signaled it was ready for fresh talks on its disputed nuclear program.


Senior U.S. officials said Washington was consulting with its foreign partners to ensure the new sanctions can work without harming global energy markets. They stressed the U.S. strategy of both isolating and remaining open to engagement with Iran was unchanged.

Ah yes, the precious energy markets. We can't have some unprecedented volatility there, not now when it is now officially an election year. What however we can have, is control over the supply of one of the world's biggest oil exporters. Kind of what happened in Iraq a few years back to stunning success...

So what was Iran's response?

Iran has successfully produced and tested fuel rods for use in its nuclear power plants, state television reported on Sunday, in a snub to international demands that it halt sensitive nuclear work.


The rods, which contain natural uranium, were made in Iran and have been inserted into the core of Tehran's research nuclear reactor, the television reported.


Nuclear fuel rods contain small pellets of fuel, usually low-enriched uranium, patterned to give out heat produced by nuclear reaction without melting down.


"This great achievement will perplex the West, because the Western countries had counted on a possible failure of Iran to produce nuclear fuel plates," the Tehran Times newspaper said.


The development was announced at a time of growing tension between Western powers and Iran after the U.N. nuclear agency reported in November that Tehran appeared to have worked on designing a nuclear weapon. Secret research to that end may be continuing, it said.


The United States and its European allies have increased the sanctions pressure on Iran, one of the world's largest oil producers, to push Tehran to halt the enrichment.


U.S. President Barack Obama signed more sanctions against Iran into law on Saturday, shortly after Iran signalled it was ready for new talks with the West on its nuclear programme and said it had delayed long-range missile tests in the Gulf.

But wait, there's more. From the BBC:

Iran has successfully test-fired a medium-range surface-to-air missile during military exercises in the Gulf, the official Irna news agency reports.


Iranian naval commander, Mahmoud Mousavi, was quoted as saying the missile was equipped with the "latest technology" and "intelligent systems".


The test comes a day after he denied earlier state media reports that Iran had test-fired long-range missiles.


He said on Saturday missile launches would take place "in the coming days".


Iran's 10 days of naval exercises began last week and are taking place in international waters to the east of the strategic Strait of Hormuz.


They come at a time of increased tensions between the West and Iran over its nuclear ambitions.


Tehran reacted angrily last week to reports that Western nations were planning to impose further sanctions targeting Iran's oil and financial sectors.

So little by little the US will escalate pressure on Iran to commit increasingly more glaring acts of outright 'insanity', until finally it does the one thing that according to the US media, which will likely be needed to wash-rinse-spin cycle the newsflow, will push the  American people, who are just not going to take such 'vile' proocations any more, over the edge. At least according to Santorum's Meet the Press interview from this morning which made precisely that point all too clear.


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Sun, 01/01/2012 - 13:45 | 2024733 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

3... 2... 1... Happy New Year!

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 13:49 | 2024744 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

What is it good for? 

Don't look at the man behind the curtain!

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 13:52 | 2024752 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

Jimi: I think it's funny that amidst all of the 2012 revelry, you are here with me reading doom and gloom predictions on ZH.

This is a truly disastrous scenario. Some say war is about managing unintended consequences. The (un)intended consequences of what will be transpiring soon will have life-altering impacts for almost everyone.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 13:59 | 2024764 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

"Our intent is to implement this law in a timed and phased approach so that we avoid repercussions to the oil market and ensure that this damages Iran and not the rest of the world," the senior U.S. official told Reuters.

I'm like 40/60 alcohol to urine from last night but will someone confirm that the quotation above is completely batshit insane and otherwise an impossibility?

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:03 | 2024771 Wakanda
Wakanda's picture

Why sober up?

Plan B:  keep drinking - we are knee deep in batshit insane

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:18 | 2024803 trav7777
trav7777's picture

the FRN is a weapon...debtmoney always has been

So an act of financial war against Iran...great.  More freedom coming!!

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:48 | 2024876 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

SAM, whose range is only's quite something to watch a SAM seller. I've seen them at Defenes Expos, death merchants in Suits and ties talking calmly of Kill Ratios. 

Trav, hope you stay true to your self in 2012. If you truly are the asshole in your real life that you get to play here on ZH, congratulations. 

For the greater good, do tell, are you? Do you tel everyone at work to constantly STFU, Idiot, retard etc.?

Inquiring minds...


Meanwhile, this Iran scenario is too obvious. What is the Left Hand up to? 



Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:58 | 2024892 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The LH is likely wondering what happened to its nose (see below).  I think this ruling class is idiotic.  They are using the same script their grandfathers used, but back then they had industry at its back.  Now the US is a wasteland of idot liberals and dumb republicans.  The 25% of Americans that have an inkling of what is happening, they are too spoiled to act.  It was over when they Occupy Movement decided it would be best to house homeless people for the winter instead of taking action and burning down the Fed.

It's all over, save yourselves, buy silver, canned food, and get ready to hunt squirrels.  There are two new moons in February (the 21st/22nd).  That would mean back to back nights of stealth bombing.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:06 | 2024917 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

The LH reference had me confused for a minute there, LH! But I see it now.

Good advice. Definitely a seperating the wheat from the chaff year all around.


Sun, 01/01/2012 - 16:29 | 2025090 knukles
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From Chaos, Order.

All goes well, according to plan.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 19:48 | 2025413 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

"Work makes Free". Thank God for our Fuhrer !

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 01:10 | 2025943 TruthInSunshine
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The U.S. is going to smash a naval ship full of peanut butter into Iran's chocolate, and then announce to the world that Iran has aggressively rammed a barge full of chocolate into a merchant peanut butter ship, as a pretext for war.

That's how this shit always goes down.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 16:29 | 2025091 macholatte
macholatte's picture

The left hand is in the pocket and stroking the genitals of the sheeple.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 16:57 | 2025132 trav7777
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I have to tone it down at work, obviously.  lol

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:22 | 2024814 xcehn
xcehn's picture

Exactly.  Especially since tomorrow is a holiday.  Don't rush sobriety.

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 03:01 | 2026029 Mugatu
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If you stare at xcehn's "active" graphic too long you will become hypnotized.

I personally think ZH'ers should not use an active graphic unless it involves tits or asses,

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:11 | 2024794 fuu
fuu's picture

No, it is completely fucking insane.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:18 | 2024801 SWRichmond
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The statement is of course a complete misdirection.  Give the sheeple something positive to believe, that the "authorities" somehow actually know what they're doing.

Sanctioned institutions would be frozen out of U.S. financial markets.

Pfft.  What's the big deal?  I'm in the process of getting the hell out of them myself.  Why would Iran want assets anywhere they could be stolen by western central bankers?

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:49 | 2024830 Mr Lennon Hendrix
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So the US cut off its nose?  With Japan, China, and Russia now trading w/o dollars, it is possible that the US just went all in on dueces. 

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 18:25 | 2025280 Last_2_Sense
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more like a 10 5 off suit.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 20:55 | 2025543 fnord88
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7 2 offsuit and full retard baby...yeah...."burning down the house"....

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 01:01 | 2025933 trav7777
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hey we might get hail mary on the river and fill that straight...and everyone else will fold

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 21:59 | 2025635 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

I do think we raised the bet on dueces, China, Russia and Japan taken together are no insignificant. Should they continue to deal with Iran as anyother trading partner, then what does the US do? Freeze those three out of US markets? Stop trade with them? Freeze their assets?

You can tell by the foolish nature of my last three questions just what a foolish position the US has put itself in with this latest sanctions bill.

In that case we must ask how and why such a foolish sanctions bill made it into law. Well, who would be pushing hardest for this bill and the sanctions that push Iran towards a move that might trigger a US attack?

Israel? Israel's congressional supporters? We do know that about 90% + of congress are sworn defenders of Israel's policy decessions. What ever Israel demands of the US congress, odds are quite good they will get some large part of what they demand. My guess is Congress caved in to Israeli demands vis their US lobby groups and has crafted a sanctions bill that puts Israeli policy goals first and the US interests last.

I welcome anyone with a contrary opinon to debunk my theory of why this sanctions bill has become the law of the land.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:41 | 2024859 s2man
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+1 for "I'm in the process of getting the hell out of them myself".  Me too :-D

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 16:06 | 2024888 Lucius Corneliu...
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+100  My thoughts exactly.  One big WHO CARES is at hand here.  The banksters are becoming more irrelevant with each passing bailout.  The public is leaving the casino in spades. China and Japan are leaving the dollar. I'm certain Iran will take anything but dollars for oil.  Talk about a stupid move.  The US government, big finance and the big oil Saudi Arabian toadie (aka US Army/Navy) military complex is starting its death throes.  Expect authoritarian repression for dissent.  Is Gitmo our gulag?  Welcome to the USSA!

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:59 | 2024902 YHC-FTSE
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Confirm it is completely batshit insane. Not quite sure how it is going to work, except it's bound to please the Chay-sus rapture second coming crowds. I don't want to die painfully from slow starvation/radiation when WWWIII kicks off, so I'm going to rent a house near a primary target and try to leave a nice shadow on the pavement. 


Somebody really ought to spell out that sanctions are not "Soft" political tools. Sanctions on Iraq killed a half million children under 5yrs old (UNICEF 1999 report), and who knows how many others even before the US invasion in 2003. I doubt the Iranians are going to allow that to happen to their kids, nor the Russians who have their carrier force covering Syria, nor the Chinese, nor the Europeans who all need the black stuff. I get the feeling that the rest of the world has been playing the role of Neville Chamberlain for too long, and one lone nutjob country called the USA is playing the role of Hitler on steroids. Something is about to change, hopefully to a peaceful resolution if Dr.Paul gets elected, but I have my doubts about that happening with the GOP about to rig the polls in Iowa.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:06 | 2024913 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

Don't be so paranoid.  Iran has its nuclear deterant in place.  China and Russia are squarely behind them.  Obama and the US State department are just thumping their chest.  The USA is becoming more and more irrelevant in world affairs.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:13 | 2024932 YHC-FTSE
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Thanks, but that is precisely what I'm worried about. Too many nuclear powers converging to defend or fight over that area. The USA does not usually end with merely thumping chests, and the one thing sociopaths fear most is becoming irrelevant. But let's hope you're right.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:27 | 2024939 Lucius Corneliu...
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I'm more worried about how to get these assholes out of our government.  IMO, that is when violence is more likely to occur because they will not give up without a fight.  Who killed more Russians, Stalin or Hitler?  Who killed more Chinese, Mao or the Imperial Japanese Army?

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:30 | 2024963 GMadScientist
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What kills more than all those combined? Starvation and drought.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 17:18 | 2025168 xela2200
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Starvation is how Mao killed his own people. That is central planning for You especially when You add a sprinkle of bad luck. Largest starvation known in human history. 36 - 45 million people dead in 3 years.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 16:46 | 2025117 macholatte
macholatte's picture

The USA is becoming more and more irrelevant in world affairs.

The USA is not going to do anything without first getting permission from the UN. In addition to that, the western financial system is apparently quite fragile. Maybe all the chest pumping from Iran is all that's necessary to push the West over the cliff into the currency abyss. On the other hand, a nice war has always worked well to re-boot a failing financial system and get the sheeple to be happy when they find a few potatoes in the bottom of a garbage can. Was it Obama who said that "Americans need to learn to do with less" or something like that?

"The truth is most Americans don't want much. Folks don't want the whole pie. Most Americans feel blessed to thrive a little bit....but that's out of reach for them. The truth is, in order to get things like universal heathcare and a revamped education system then someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more.

- Michelle Obama April 8, 2008

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 17:00 | 2025137 Lucius Corneliu...
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The USA is not going to do anything without first getting permission from the UN.

...and that is exactly why there will not be a war.  China and Russia will never support it. When (since '79 -- which was arguably justified) has Iran ever done anything to the USA other than obligatory weekend bar-b-que flag burnings after temple prayers?  It's pathetic how easily the American public's opinions can be manipulated by yellow journalism.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 20:57 | 2025542 BigJim
BigJim's picture

...The truth is, in order to get things like universal heathcare and a revamped education system then someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more.

- Michelle Obama April 8, 2008

Wow. Classic, tribal, 'zero-sum' politics at its finest. These fucking idiots really don't get the idea of wealth creation, do they? I suppose it's because they and all their friends have all been wealth-extracting for so long they've forgotten where the pie comes from.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 19:16 | 2025358 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

Sanctions on Iraq killed a half million children under 5yrs old (UNICEF 1999 report), and who knows how many others even before the US invasion in 2003.  

Saddam had to spend millions on fancy cars and houses during this time? He had to have more gold for his wife?

Saddam choose to let the children of Iraq to die. You know this. Had Saddam put resources to the benefit of his people, resources and trade routes were available during the time of the sanctions. Nice try blaming eveyone except those actually responsible.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 19:44 | 2025404 JR
JR's picture

That is not true. It was not Saddam who chose "to let the children of Iraq die," it was Americans and Israelis such as yourself who won't own up to the reprehensible deeds of their countrymen such as Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright who stated clearly that the deaths of the children was worth the price.

The Iraqi people had “historically been one of the of the most highly educated, industrious, and entrepreneurial people in the Middle East…and a majority of Iraqis lived most of their adult lives under Saddam Hussein.”

According to Wikipedia, under Hussein and revenue from Iraq’s oil resources:

Within just a few years, Iraq was providing social services that were unprecedented among Middle Eastern countries. Saddam established and controlled the "National Campaign for the Eradication of Illiteracy" and the campaign for "Compulsory Free Education in Iraq," and largely under his auspices, the government established universal free schooling up to the highest education levels; hundreds of thousands learned to read in the years following the initiation of the program. The government also supported families of soldiers, granted free hospitalization to everyone, and gave subsidies to farmers. Iraq created one of the most modernized public-health systems in the Middle East, earning Saddam an award from the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO).

With the help of increasing oil revenues, Saddam diversified the largely oil-based Iraqi economy. Saddam implemented a national infrastructure campaign that made great progress in building roads, promoting mining, and developing other industries. The campaign helped Iraq's energy industries. Electricity was brought to nearly every city in Iraq, and many outlying areas.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 20:05 | 2025441 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture


Sun, 01/01/2012 - 20:47 | 2025524 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

sounds remarkably similar to Libya, hmm?


Mon, 01/02/2012 - 01:05 | 2025937 trav7777
trav7777's picture

bbbut...bbbbut...RAPE ROOMS and MOBILE BIOLOGICAL WARFARE LABS.  And yellowcake and aluminum tubes.

The same people Saddam kept his boot on were the ones blowing shit up and successfully ethnic cleansing Iraq.

And we let it happen.  FREEDOM, bitchez.  Mr. Sunni you have the FREEDOM to gtfo of this neighborhood and Mr. Shiite, you too have the freedom to GTFO or get beheaded.

And all non-muslims have the freedom to leave the country forever or get slaughtered.  God bless america

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 20:04 | 2025435 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

"Nice try blaming eveyone except those actually responsible."

Ditto. So help me, it seems like I do this every week now. This is a cut and paste of my answer to a similar post only last week:



I can't believe anyone actually still believes the bullshit spouted during the demonisation of Iraq. Okay, I'll bite. 


The figure of 500,000 Iraqi children killed stated to Albright in the 60 Minutes interview, which Albright never denied, was from a preliminary 1995 UN FAO report that 567,000 Iraqi children under 5 yrs old had died as a direct result of the sanctions. That figure was confirmed by a definitive UNICEF report in 1999 suggesting that the total "EXCESS" deaths of children under 5 yrs old as a direct result of the sanctions was approx. 500,000. 


The claim that sanctions are not to blame for Iraq's suffering, but that Saddam Hussein bears the sole responsibility, came shortly after the 1999 UNICEF report, as you would expect. These claims were ALL discredited, but still resurfaced in the MSM after 2001, and gained mass saturation before the eve of the US invasion in 2003. The fact is, the Oil for Food Program money was administered by the UN, disbursed directly from a US bank account to foreign suppliers so that misappropriation was impossible. Allegations of food and goods being stolen by Saddam was repeatedly denied by the UN officials administering the program inside Iraq. 


It's not your fault. Lies upon lies were widely published by the msm in the USA, as well as spouted by the administration at the time. You might want to check this link out for the full story:


Sun, 01/01/2012 - 20:45 | 2025517 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

The fact is, the Oil for Food Program money was administered by the UN, disbursed directly from a US bank account to foreign suppliers so that misappropriation was impossible.

Yet the French were STILL able to put their grimy paws into the cookie jar...

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 01:06 | 2025938 trav7777
trav7777's picture

yeah, the monies under oil for food that were stolen were stolen BY the UN.

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 08:18 | 2026174 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Trying to make a simple point that sanctions are not "Soft" political tools. Systemic corruption in politics and banking does not somehow negate that point. 

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 22:05 | 2025647 Yellow Tang
Yellow Tang's picture

@YHC-FTSE - Dr Paul, if he gets elected, will be the president of a nation at war, or one recovering from multiple nuclear strikes.  The US will be at war with Iran, and probably Russia and China a long time before the elections.  So the avenue of peaceful resolution is barricadedThe NDAA and all other anti-civil liberty bills brought in this far are to deal with the huge anti-war protests and then the economic ruin the war will bring. Looks like there are only 2 outcomes:


1) The world snubs the sanctions, deals with Iran and its oil anyhow.  US invades Iran on some pretense to "fix" that problem.  China/Russia defend.  WWIII.


2) The world tows the lines (except China probably who will be allowed to ignore the sanctions).  Iran is crippled financially, attacks the US to force China and Russia into a war.  WWIII.


Those crazy fucking Mayans.

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 08:21 | 2026175 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Yes. Hence confirming the batshit insane comment made originally by GeneMarchbanks. As for the hypothetical inheritance of a broken nation by Dr.Paul, I think it depends on the timeframe, and I will hazard a guess that we just might be able to get him elected before the point of no return for global thermonuclear war. Maybe. Hopefully. 

I don't think there will be a few multiple strikes. It would be strategically stupid to lob a few to allow a bigger retalitory strike. If a nuclear war kicks off, it will be all-out or nothing. That was the point of "Mutually Assured Destruction".

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 17:15 | 2025164 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Good thinking.  We will manage the unintended consequences of our action.  Only one problem...the unintended consequences are, by definition, not predictable by those who embark on the action.

One unintended consequence might be that Iran says, well, OK, we don't take $US for our oil if that's what you want.  We take gold.  And only gold.  And the rest of the middle east follows suit.

That would be a little embarrassing.


Sun, 01/01/2012 - 17:26 | 2025179 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Take Gold for oil? That sounds familiar.

"The OPEC cartel issued a joint communique stating that, from then on, they would price a barrel of oil against gold."


Funny how the Arabs didn't like getting screwed by Nixon. I wish the US people could have done the same. IT would have prevented the FED from screwing us all for the last 40 years.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:01 | 2024766 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Hey Turd!

I'm really liking your podcasts!

Yeah, another year, and a bunch more crazy news about politicians using the Hegelian Dialectic to create opposition but in a given paradigm.  The good/bad relationship is merely a construct of the mind.  FOr example, if a wolfpack hunts a moose, is that bad?  One would say no, for the wolves must eat.  If a child gets lost in the woods, and is eaten alive by a wolf, that is bad, though.  Or is it? 

It is just life.  Shit happens.  But when the above happens, it happens with purpose; as you said, it is intended.  The intention is to divert attention from the shitshow that is the economy, and put a target on a country far, far away. 

The sorry thing is that the pattern was exposed long ago, by works of fiction and other arts.  Now it is shown for what it is by Zero Hedge, and other sites.  Still, people drive in circles, to band practice, people get married, they go to movies, how can we not?  We are mere human.

Yet when there is a turning point, such as sanctioning any entity that deals with Iran (Greece is no fucked, by the way), then boom goes the cannon.  We are starting the year off with a bang.  Hopefully it won't be nuclear.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:20 | 2024808 trav7777
trav7777's picture

What you cite is False Dilemma.  Watch ZH and it appears nearly constantly.

the economy isn't a shitshow for the peeps at the top; never been better for 'em.  You really have to get out and meet some really rich people.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:23 | 2024816 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Yeah, that's what I need to do, hang out with rich people.  Let me put that on my resolutions.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:28 | 2024831 trav7777
trav7777's picture

try it sometime.  It's really rather illuminating.

I have said it before and will do so again; the middle class doesn't matter.  The upper middle and lower upper do; the trade classes.

500 channels and SNAP go a long way as far as opiation.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:36 | 2024845 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I think that the whole reason for the Fall of '08 was to squeeze the middle class into the lower class.  As far as hanging out with the elite, the times I have have been the most boring moments of my life.  They don't shop for groceries, buy oil, etc, I know the disconnect. 

Trav, so let me ask, why would we sanction Iran if everything is going swimmingly for the elite?  Don't you think that the economy might roll over soon, and that this would provide cover?

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:18 | 2024949 s2man
s2man's picture

Yup.  Start a war. Blame it for the (planned) economic collapse. Let the sheeple stew for a few months.  Introduce the fix, a one-world currency.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 22:23 | 2025679 Alpacanio
Alpacanio's picture

I keep hearing this "one-world" currancy BS. You think Russia and China, maybe even half of Europe will agree to this?

Not going to happen...

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 01:23 | 2025959 Haywood Jablowme
Haywood Jablowme's picture

How do you say in Japanese, "S-D-R mudda fucka?"

aLPaCaniO aka biLL1102iNf aka MeREMorTAL aka Dennis "the Beaker" Kneale.......he's baaaaaaaaaaaaccccckkkkkkkk!


Sun, 01/01/2012 - 17:01 | 2025139 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I don't see the connection between the war and the economy.

The people pushing the war haven't a fucking clue about the economy because they are insulated.  As you said, they DON'T shop for groceries, they DON'T change their oil.  These things (Iran) seem "serious" to them for whatever reason they surrounded themselves with an echo chamber to reinforce.

I would posit that an oil grab in the face of Peak is a driving factor far beyond any dog wagging.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 18:08 | 2025247 LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

Lennon was a dirtball marxist and hendrix is the most over-rated guitarist ever.

so good luck with that

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 19:27 | 2025380 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Oh Duuuude,

Red lunker for dissing Jimi... so, sooo crass.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 20:49 | 2025529 StychoKiller
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Alright, wise guy, let's see you play the guitar with just one hand, or your teeth.  You obviously are NOT experienced!

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 01:09 | 2025942 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I have done both of those things...but I always thought Lennon's brilliance was more in his writing than with the guitar

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 01:28 | 2025961 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

The brilliant guitar was George Harrison.  Fucker played beautifully.  Gorgeous lines extended straight from the melody, he was a master at that.  And a very light, sensitve touch (reminds me of Norah Jones playing a Fender Rhodes oddly).  



Sun, 01/01/2012 - 21:05 | 2025554 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Haha, you have just SO destroyed any credibility you might have ever had!

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:18 | 2024947 Milestones
Milestones's picture

"The game of history is played by those at the top and the bottom of society over the heads of those in the middle." Eric Hoffer  "The True Believer"          Milestones

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:33 | 2024974 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

I have. Most of the time I come away wondering how someone that abjectly objectively stupid can end up that loaded.

Then I remember that for 90% of the would-be's the affectation rather than the actuality of wealth.

So many will be rudely awakened as to which side of that line they are truly on.


Sun, 01/01/2012 - 17:03 | 2025143 trav7777
trav7777's picture

bingo.  Terminal disconnect.  That is my point.

So why would they think there's an association between war and the economy?  The economy from their perspective is fine.  The masses are just whining and jealous and should be happy with their SNAPs and that they are allowed to have 500 channels and a house.

The masses exist to serve the elites just as that crazy rabbi insists the goyim exist to serve the jew.

The elites have a horde of sycophants telling them how cool they are.  Bitches want to fuck you just because you're rich; how much bigger an ego endorsement can a guy get?

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 20:51 | 2025535 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

The elites have a horde of sycophants telling them how cool they are.  Bitches want to fuck you just because you're rich; how much bigger an ego endorsement can a guy get?

Maybe so, but in the next life, you're on your own!

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 01:26 | 2025964 Haywood Jablowme
Haywood Jablowme's picture

I have a 9 inch penis....keep ur worthless FRN's.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:34 | 2024839 xcehn
xcehn's picture

Yeah, it depends on your zone.  The green zone people went to town on expensive vintages to toast another great year awaiting them.  Here's to austerity and productivity they squeal!

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:36 | 2024844 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture


Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:57 | 2025023 LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

Long sunglasses, glass cleaner and Farsi obits

Short poetry

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 13:56 | 2024759 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

how the fuck can one root for goliath???

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:07 | 2024776 Popo
Popo's picture

Arguably Goliath was the more poorly armed.   David brought projectile weapons to a sword fight.   

History may repeat itself of course...

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:20 | 2024810 trav7777
trav7777's picture

well as the story goes, God was handling the aim; how could you miss?

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 17:55 | 2025219 xela2200
xela2200's picture

David was a bloody soldier with experience on his weapon.  The real story of his life shows that He was an assassin, traitor to his king and nation, womanizer, merciless, and worst of all committed genocide (yes, a Jew ala Hitler). I am sure his contemporaries weren't any better, but He is not the little sheep herder the bible wants You to believe. Behaved more like Al Capone than George Washington.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 18:56 | 2025322 Chain Gun Smoke
Chain Gun Smoke's picture

Lets see a link to that info you cunt.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 23:30 | 2025809 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Try your bible, wanker.

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 01:11 | 2025946 trav7777
trav7777's picture

thing called BIBLE, idiot.

Everything he said is true.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 19:06 | 2025333 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



Godwin's Law

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 19:08 | 2025340 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

based on your description than, i mistakenly assigned the wrong charactor to the wrong country...either way i understand why the world is sooooo tired of us.a..

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 20:54 | 2025539 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

the Clash:

"I'm so booooooored with the U S A !!!"

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:35 | 2024979 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Spoken like someone who has never had 17 wins in a row betting on Goliath.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 16:42 | 2025112 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

because goliath has disguised himself as david.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:27 | 2024827 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

"In particular, I have signed this bill despite having serious reservations with certain provisions that regulate the detention, interrogation, and prosecution of suspected terrorists."

Well, that makes the choice easy now. Ron Paul!!

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 16:17 | 2025072 JPMorgan
JPMorgan's picture

Yeah what a retard.

Normally if you have serious reservations about something you would defer, not just go ahead and sign it anyway.

But I guess he is just doing what he has been told to do by Goldman and the rest of the puppet masters. 

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 19:59 | 2025427 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Yeah what a retard. the national poster boy for affirmative action. Thank God we have a strong leader.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 20:53 | 2025538 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Hmm, when was the last time a President vetoed a bill, anyway?

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:40 | 2024856 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Looks like the elites think WW3 will solve the debt crisis. Hey Iran, nudge, nudge, nudge....No? Ok, we'll false flag ourselves and blame it on you anyways.


Happy Fucking New Year

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 18:00 | 2025227 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Ask the Argentineans how that worked out for them.

"Patriotic sentiment ran high in Argentina, but the outcome prompted large protests against the ruling military government, which hastened its downfall. In the United Kingdom, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's government was bolstered by the successful outcome, which helped carry them to victory in the 1983 general election. "


Sun, 01/01/2012 - 13:50 | 2024746 rehypothecator
rehypothecator's picture

"In particular, I have signed this bill despite having serious reservations with certain provisions that regulate the detention, interrogation, and prosecution of suspected terrorists."

Is he stating an objection to any limitation of his power with respect to actions against terrorists, or is he tacitly saying that he's ok doing the stated actions with US citizens, just not terrorists?  

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 13:53 | 2024755 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

He just says what's on the teleprompter, don't over analyze it.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:04 | 2024774 itchy166
itchy166's picture

He is saying that he has "serious reservations" and yet signs anyway.  He is saying he is a coward.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:42 | 2024853 Hansel
Hansel's picture

If you read the full signing statement, you'll see his "serious reservations" are due to not wanting any rules limiting indefinite detention.  Obama's signing statement attempts to eliminate the few rules in the bill limiting detention.  Here is a video of Obama lying his ass off about not using signing statements...

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 16:52 | 2025121 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

that's an obvious Repub vote agenda - or "NV" missing in voice/action. . . then get the Demo Prez to waffle & sign - done!

we have representation, UNIFIED representation.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:48 | 2024879 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

It’s official.

Bankerstan Declares War on Liberty.

Signed, sealed and delivered by its Commander in Chief.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:37 | 2024985 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Why would someone who is being granted discretionary power have reservations unless they seriously doubted their own judgement?


Sun, 01/01/2012 - 20:15 | 2025463 Vagabond
Vagabond's picture

Because he doubts the judgement of his successors.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 22:14 | 2025661 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Because he will be branded with this act forever..........

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:23 | 2024817 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

That he said it implies it trumps the serious reservations a growing number of Americans feel about his prezidency.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:36 | 2024843 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

I think he means when things get 'serious' US citizens will be put on 'reservations'.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:27 | 2024959 Eureka Springs
Eureka Springs's picture

Even if Obamabots take false comfort in some these words - beliving he won't do bad things. They are ignoring any number of onging acts presently.. This bill and Executive and Congress all leaves the door wide open for him and any future executive to continue the worst case imaginable scenarios.

The enemy is within. There isn't a handful of decent reps in either party in this country.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 17:06 | 2025145 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

the system has Continuity built in to Governance. . .

there are no "sides" bar them against us.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:34 | 2024977 barkingbill
barkingbill's picture

i think he was just annoyed because it says that these things should automatically be under military control....he wants the president to decide....whatever. i don't understand anything he says anymore. he seems like he should just be selling breakfast cereal...

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 21:10 | 2025563 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Would YOU buy breakfast cereal from this man?

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 18:03 | 2025232 xela2200
xela2200's picture

He is saying, " I want to do this, but I don't want to be held responsible."

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 13:52 | 2024751 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Shit's about to get insane.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:58 | 2024899 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Mr Lennon Hendrix


Your right,fighting wars on two or three fronts, AND starting one at home, is about as nutty as it gets.

Why would anyone in their right mind want a Civil War going on, and M E war (along w/Trashcanistan), all going on at once?

I guarantee you, they start picking up folks the are obviously in NO way terrorists, or related remotely to it, and the M E will be the least of this admins worries.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 13:53 | 2024753 steve.stuart
steve.stuart's picture

How about Iran sign a law which says 'Ships will not be allowed to cross the Strait of Hormuz that belong to nations that refuse to deal with Iranian Central Bank"?

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:02 | 2024887 reload
reload's picture

Last night at New Years eve party hosted by sell side city types I was seated next to the ME based representative of a blue blooded merchant bank. He was doing a pretty good job of arguing the case that Iran is seeking to be the David that stands up the the USA Goliath. That Iran is agent provocoteur in stiring up Shia unrest throughout the region, and that it has ambitions to be the rallying point for muslims throughout the world. He had some pretty grim stories about the brutality of the Sauidi regime on the populations of its eastern provinces - said they were magnitudes worse than what happened in Bahrain.

However he totaly lost me when he seemed to suggest that Iran was behind the fall of Ghadafi and may have been involved in Tunisia and Egypt. I guess they could have fanned unrest, but when push comes to shove Uncle Sam, Nato and the security council are the grand masters of regime change. His credometer sank a notch or two further when it became clear that he did not know that Iran has but one oil refinery, producing pertrol and deisel.

Either way, this fellow speaks to a lot of the regimes and big business operators in the ME on a weekly basis and the imprssion that I got from his conversation was that they are genuinely shit scared of Iran, and see Iran as the bogeyman fanning unrest in their Nations. Behind the scenes I bet they are on the phone to Washington daily, shouting `do something`

He also said that western governments should be getting scared of their rapidly breeding Muslim populations - which is another story all together. But if he is even a 1/4 right that Irans intentions are the long term spread of hard line Shia Muslim governance throughout the ME and the implementation of Sharia law further afield, then Iran WILL get stamped on, soon and hard. 

But why would they risk it now? to me they look like a long way from being ready to spread their influence. Shia populations make up only @30-35% of ME populations on average. And once the shooting starts they will get creamed.

I have always quite liked they way Iran has stood up for itself - refused a fractional reserve central bank and finance system etc. The Iranians I have met in Europe have always been polite, well educated and friendly. I fear for the average Iranian now, their government may or may not be an axis of evil, a sponsor of terror and a threat to its neighbours - it does not matter. Enough people have been persuaded that `Iran is bad` that war looks very likely.


Sorry for the ramble - a very happy NY and best wishes for 2012 to all. 


Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:14 | 2024935 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

But why would they risk it now? to me they look like a long way from being ready to spread their influence. Shia populations make up only @30-35% of ME populations on average. And once the shooting starts they will get creamed.


The Twelfth Imam. Best read up on him as Iran wants total destruction to raise him from the well.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 21:58 | 2025636 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

This is greatly exaggerated by our propaganda whores in the West.  No true decision makers in Iran have stated that they want to "take one for the 12th"....

This is dis-info used by TPTB to gain public sentiment for the pre-planned war AND to scare Christians into voting for any Republican who will wipe Iran off the face of the map.

The real goal:  oil and central banking dominance.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 18:22 | 2025255 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

Iran has every right to use its influence as a regional power.  We need to keep our nose out of other people's business and stop trying to control what happens in the ME.  We have enough of our own problems to deal with.  Starting another war may be a great distraction for inept and desperate politicians who have run our Nation into the ground.  But, it is most certainly, unequivocally not a National security threat to the USA.  The real threat is a runaway, biligerent military industrial complex that thinks it can continue to be the (under)paid toady for the dispecable Saudi regime.  Sorry, but we just can't afford these antics anymore...using debt to plug 40% of the Federal buget is not going to work very long!

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 21:18 | 2025578 BigJim
BigJim's picture

The Shia may be a minority in the region, but they make up the majority in many countries, (Iran, Iraq, Azerbaijan and Bahrain) and a sizeable minority in others (Saudi, for instance).

Keep in mind that all the 'kindoms' are basically dictatorships of varying degrees of popularity, and with virtually zero degree of validity in any democratic sense. So, yes, those countries are genuinely shit-scared of Iran's shia rabble raising. They know the bulk of their people wouldn't give a damn if they were deposed.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:10 | 2024923 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

How about Iran sign a law which says 'Ships will not be allowed to cross the Strait of Hormuz that belong to nations that refuse to deal with Iranian Central Bank"?


They just flag in Nigeria. Most US ships already sail under foreign flags, its cheaper.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 13:55 | 2024756 westboundnup
westboundnup's picture

And we're off . . . If 2012 lives up to it's reputation as a volatie year, we'll should see action on the Midde East front this month.  Also, look for a major leg down in not ony the stock market, but also the credit and bond markets.  I don't put much stock in the Mayan calendar ange, but the can can ony be kicked down the road so far.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:01 | 2024767 chunga
chunga's picture

Isn't 2012 a Leap Year? Great...just great. An extra day.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:26 | 2024822 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Hey-soos. It is. Feb 29th - a great day to do something historic.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:40 | 2024855 chunga
chunga's picture



You know we got to sit around at home
And watch this thing begin
But I bet there won't be many live
To see it really end
'Cause the fire in the street
Ain't like the fire in the heart
And in the eyes of all these people
Don't you know that this could start
On any street in any town
In any state if any clown
Decides that now's the time to fight
For some ideal he thinks is right
And if a million more agree
There ain't no Great Society
As it applies to you and me
Our country isn't free
And the law refuses to see
If all that you can ever be
Is just a lousy janitor
Unless your uncle owns a store
You know that five in every four
Just won't amount to nothin' more
Gonna watch the rats go across the floor
And make up songs about being poor

Blow your harmonica, son!



I still have Freak Out on vinyl.

No record player though...

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:02 | 2024909 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

FZ - more vindication every day. Thanks for the link.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 23:29 | 2025806 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

"It can't happen here"


Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:26 | 2024765 San Diego Gold Bug
San Diego Gold Bug's picture

Outright war will happen in September or October just in time for Obummer to mess with the election.  Buy more metal because war is always great for inflation!  Thanks to the reader who mentioned a few weeks ago.  saved me some good money.

2012 will have a "Black Swan" event that will catch us all of guard.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:48 | 2024878 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

You've been pumping that website like a hillbilly on the neighbor's goat, why don't you give it a rest?

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 00:29 | 2025892 VisualCSharp
VisualCSharp's picture

Because he's trying to get his at our collective expense, just like banksters and politicians.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 19:26 | 2025378 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

I don't know how many years I've been hearing about fucking guarranteed "October surprises" for.  But I haven't seen one yet.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:02 | 2024768 patb
patb's picture

Iran could always trade for Physical Gold.


That would initiate a nuclear war :-(

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:04 | 2024769 s2man
s2man's picture

Who was it that predicted global financial collapse, with a new war on which to blame it, started by goading Iran into making the first move?  The part about goading Iran into war seems to be true.

I think it was the latest Thunder Road report, but not sure. Too many predictions floating around this time of year...

@steve.stuart, +1, that's funny.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:22 | 2024813 trav7777
trav7777's picture

try this sometime; grab a guy you don't like and pinch his nose and cover his mouth and deprive him of air.  See how long before he punches you.

The USA is a passive/aggressive BITCH these days

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 21:21 | 2025585 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

Lindsey Williams, for one.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:08 | 2024772 Catullus
Catullus's picture

There's an easy work around. Just demand gold for oil. No need for central banks.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 21:21 | 2025584 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Will only work if the bulk of OPEC agree to do the same. And why would they? They're US satraps.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:06 | 2024778 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Does this mean that 'progressives' will abandon little berry and his president valerie in favor of Ron Paul?

I mean come on, these 'progressives' hate war and depending on who is the president du jour, hate lots of stuff. Will they now turn their backs on the ideology of their oh so recent past, or sell out once again in favor of the prefered status quo?

I've got a good one (he-he), OWS will surely be all over this right? I mean the peoples movement surely would not go along with this after all?

Gotta go, I'm off to click on the huff and move-on's brilliant indignation over this outrage. Can't wait to see the leftist blogosphere demand that war monger obumma be forced to step down.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:36 | 2024846 I only kill chi...
I only kill chickens and wheat's picture

over 21k posts on the Huff and Puff, truly fun reading.

NDAA Disclaimer: I am a loyal American and truly love and support our wise and generous leadership, including the Dear Leader himself whose skillful guidance, innate genius, dedication to ceaseless work on behalf of the people of this land make him not only a beacon of progress but also hope and change as the USA marches forward resolutely shoulder to shoulder on the road to progress, greater prosperity and happiness)

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 17:37 | 2025195 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

you reckon your "progressives" & "leftist blogosphere" types are ready to flip to the team that overwhelmingly supported the very act causing this "outrage"?

even a "NV" is noted.  go go Repubs!

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 18:40 | 2025302 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

I think it might mean exactly that.

From what I can tell, the tone on some of the progressive blogs is dramatically different from 2008. There is very little support for Obama, and in particular his warmongering. It's pissing off the progressives as much as the libertarians. Just yesterday, Glenn Greenwald did a very nice job pointing out the irony of progressives supporting Obama, given that in many ways, Paul actually espouses more progressive views, especially regarding military actions: war, drones, torture, rendition, foreign military bases, etc.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 20:13 | 2025459 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

About time.  The tragedy (and triumph) of the Obama Administration is how it was able to derail and confuse those who self identify as "progressive" (left leaning but well meaning humanists) for nearly an entire term.  Progressives, caught flat footed and confused, posed almost no challenge to the passage of radical, not-so-crypto-fascist writ (decree really, given the absolute abrogation of constitutional statute).  NDAA 12.31.2011 a monsterous case in point.  Glad to hear the Firedogs et al are beginning to reclaim their wits.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 22:11 | 2025657 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Read it.  Good essay.  And Greenwald jumping in on the comments section is interesting (al la Banzai).

The parallel reality — the undeniable fact — is that all of these listed heinous views and actions from Barack Obama have been vehemently opposed and condemned by Ron Paul: and among the major GOP candidates, only by Ron Paul. For that reason, Paul’s candidacy forces progressives to face the hideous positions and actions of their candidate, of the person they want to empower for another four years. If Paul were not in the race or were not receiving attention, none of these issues would receive any attention because all the other major GOP candidates either agree with Obama on these matters or hold even worse views.

Looked around at some comments.  I gotta say, Huff Po has got the creepiest format going, brightly colored badges, special merit titles... ick.  Cracks me up to think what those would look like on ZH though.  Most mentions of ZOG = merit badge.  Most reds for stealth /sarc I suppose...merit badge.  Most likely to be red flagged by Omnivore... merit badge.  Most heinous racism = Grand Imperial Wizard (special post color).  Okay, way OT...

Abortion and civil rights are such hot button issues for progressives that they find it very difficult to overcome their knee jerk reaction to Pauls stands which are doctrinally (libertarian) pure and constitutionally consistent.  Awakening comes to progressives when they reflect and realize that libertarianism is in many ways just a more refined version of progressive humanism.  Progressivism without the State overlay and flawed legal manipulations.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 22:46 | 2025721 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

as someone who doesn't do political labels, I would love to read a "doctrinally pure libertarian" discuss Paul's view on his repeated "Sanctity of Life" bills, and his need to change the Constitution to state "life begins at the moment of conception" - a "life" that he considers more important than the woman bearing the foetus. 

Abortion and civil rights are such hot button issues for progressives that they find it very difficult to overcome their knee jerk reaction to Pauls stands which are doctrinally (libertarian) pure and constitutionally consistent.

"Abortion and civil rights" might not be important to you, but maybe you were bestowed them automatically by virtue of being of the same appearance as those who wrote/interpreted the rules?

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 23:27 | 2025785 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Speaking of HuffPo (I can't believe I'm linking this...)

Paul explained that while he supports the fact that the legislation repealed the notorious Jim Crow laws, which forced racial segregation, he believes it is the government, not the people, that causes racial tensions by passing overreaching laws that institutionalize slavery and segregation. Today's race problems, he said, result from the war on drugs, the flawed U.S. court system and the military.

"The real problem we face today is the discrimination in our court system, the war on drugs. Just think of how biased that is against the minorities," he said. "They go into prison much way out of proportion to their numbers. They get the death penalty out of proportion with their numbers. And if you look at what minorities suffer in ordinary wars, whether there's a draft or no draft, they suffer much out of proposition. So those are the kind of discrimination that have to be dealt with, but you don't ever want to undermine the principle of private property and private choices in order to solve some of these problems."

It seems to me he is pretty consistent in trying to walk a doctrinaire line on difficult issues, regardless that his positions are likely to be mis-interpreted.  A doctrinaire libertarian would be pretty much compelled to allow abortion by default as a considered individual choice (by both doctors and women), neither forcing its practice nor disallowing it through legislation which by limiting peoples choices, only makes a difficult moral question more fraught.

I would like to read about Pauls repeated sanctity of life bills and his desire to change the constitution (?)  Do you have links?

"Abortion and civil rights" might not be important to you, but maybe you were bestowed them automatically by virtue of being of the same appearance as those who wrote/interpreted the rules?  You're point is well taken.  Abortion and civil rights are important to me though, The Autobiography of Malcolm X made a profound impact on me as a young man and it still does.  I consider it foundational reading for all young Americans.  It's just that the sanctity of the law, as a foundation of advanced human culture, trumps all misguided attempts to flog it into serving the cause of social engineering efforts.  Which is what I read behind the quote above, not primitive, white, neanderthal racism.

Oh, yeah and labels are slippery, dangerous critters no doubt, but it's really hard to do political discussion without them.


Mon, 01/02/2012 - 00:05 | 2025848 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

thanks for your reply - first I'll throw you a couple of requested links - the Sanctity of Life Act(s) appear to have been started by another Republican Texan, Steve Stockman, in 1995 - but Ron Paul has been putting them forward in 2005, 2007, 2011, this is the text for 2011:

and a Ron Paul quote:

"...It's academic to talk about civil liberties if you don't talk about the true protection of all life. So if you're going to protect liberty, you have to protect the life of the unborn just as well. I have a bill in Congress ["Sanctity of Life Act of 2007"] which I certainly would promote and push as president...and what it would do is establish the principle that life begins at conception."

as to my reference to your possibly being not in a category that gets "regulated" - it was merely meant as an observation, and I certainly did not mean to be derogatory - "white, neanderthal racism" or sexism was not inferred, but given a majority of posters here are white male, sometimes it's good to remind them that they're considered "natural real humans" that everyone else gets measured against for definition, historically.  I was born white western, and I recognise the privilege inherent in this, not of my doing, but I can benefit from this irregardless - even having been born poor, and to a strongly religious family, not considered a head start in amrka. . . 

while I'm here, I'll just add, this obsession with enshrining in law the "life at the moment of conception" so as to "protect" unborn life - I would have far more respect for the position IF the life was considered as "sacred" during our whole lives - if politicians were to protect our living environment from noxious pollutions, our water from chemicals, our food from MONSANTO, our air from aerosols, etc. etc. - but to make laws that "protect" only the unborn, a zygote that is fully dependent on its environment to exist - no, this smacks of Christian Fundamentalist need to control the female body - this is a centuries long fight, absolutely nothing new.

and yeah, "labels" suck - I like to add my definitions whenever possible, as people do tend to default to their own, eh. . .


Mon, 01/02/2012 - 00:51 | 2025920 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Good links.  It looks to me as if the main idea is to relegate legal decisions on abortion to the states.  While I don't think that I agree with this legislation; the approach or the wording, I do give RP credit for trying to navigate a principled approach that makes sense to him rather than triangulating polls al la Bill Clinton.  It's a very difficult question and at least Paul is honest about where he stands.  Agree with your point on sacred life and here RP's anti militarist stands make sense.  Collateral damage is far too casual a concept in this age of drone strikes, bio weapons, pre-emptive war etc.  The answer to fuckers like Monsanto is Don't Buy Their Shit.  People hate to hear this, but eating Taco Bell and buying products like Diet Coke are political acts.  Christian Church and misogyny of... whole other discussion.

Found nothing derogatory in your comment :-)

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 16:49 | 2027057 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

unfortunately, the "don't buy Monsanto shit" is becoming increasingly difficult - over 90% of all soy, corn, & wheat is GMO now, and increasingly alfalfa, sugar beets, and more. . . much of this gets fed to the animals in feedlots for meat production, so one might say Monsanto is embedded in the food supply - have you ever taken some time to check the corporate food labels in a supermarket?  I have, and the overwhelming majority contain soy or corn derivatives - there's an agenda here.

Dow Chemical Corporation is petitioning to spray amrkn farmland with chemical weapon poisons:

f the petition is approved by Washington, it would turn America's corn fields into chemical warfare zones targeted for mass pesticide poisoning with 2,4-D chemicals. The corn, of course, would be immune to 2,4-D, so it would uptake the chemical and transport it right into the structure of the corn kernels, creating "Agent Orange corn bombs" that would be chemically unleashed when consumed by human beings.

which, by the way, will be affecting the developing foetal cells, as has been proven in Vietnam, etc. - where is Ron Paul on these issues I wonder?

(I don't vote, but all you voters out there - do you know where your candidate stands & his voting records on these issues??  what's his voting record on regulating corporate food products, GMO seeds & pesticides, clean air and water without fluoride, etc.  is knowing important to you?)

take care!

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 01:33 | 2025972 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

I agree. However, this fascist legislation received support from both parties, and I predict that far more D's will get kicked out of office than R's for supporting this bill.

Either way, Obama is simply not going to be able to pull-off the hopey-changy thing this time around. In fact he has nothing to brag about and has been an unmitigated disaster, on par with or even worse than Hoover. Wait until he really gets his campaign going and the crowds boo and hecklers follow him wherever he goes. 

To my eyes, both parties are working feverishly to destroy any remaining credibility of the political system, and all three branches are in on the scam. Since that's what all this fascist legislation is really all about (interfering with any attempts toward political change), I think it is unrealistic to expect any positive change to happen through the remaining legalized political mechanism (voting). It's just theatre to provide the illusion of democracy. Reality is a completely different beast.

FWIW, I haven't voted since 2000 (and then for Nader) and did my best to warn people in 2008 that Obama was a wolf in sheep's clothing. His reversal on retroactive telecom immunity was the tell (ex post facto legislation is explicitly forbidden by the Constitution, Article 1, section 9, clause 3), and anyone who overlooked (or explained-away) that vote has no excuse for what they got. It was visible a mile away, so I'm on the same page re: flat-footed and confused progressives. I might add delusional in there too, but I don't think that malady is limited solely to progressives.

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 02:23 | 2026006 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

plus one huge greenie for citing that critically important clause.

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

attainder n. The loss of all civil rights by a person sentenced for a serious crime.

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 01:40 | 2025977 trav7777
trav7777's picture

shit...that RP campaign ad was shit I said like 3 years ago (?) I used the same language, and same Chinese military base analogy to try to get morons to understand 911 and how we're in a war and in wars, people get hurt (sometimes our people) and how we would find such a presence totally offensive.

Oftentimes I think I should be a language strategist for political campaigns...I wrote the whole "flypaper" fight them over there instead of here talking points meme for the rightwing on a forum and then it showed up on MTP and the sunday morning chatterati circuit 4 weeks later.  That happened 2 or 3 other times within a relatively short span on other topics.

People who wanna make points, holler...

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 00:52 | 2025922 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

I've listened to the local Pacifica station here and if it's any indication there was a "progressive" political show detailing the hilights of the presidential candidates, anyhoo the topic of Iran came up, and it was the Obama supporters consensus that "we need that oil", and "Hormuz was too important not to take any action." so much for the dovish progressive crowd when it comes to besmirching their peace prize winning candidate.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:06 | 2024781 AC_Doctor
AC_Doctor's picture

EU/Euro won't make it to summer.  Anarachy will rule southern Europe.  Throw in $250 a barrel oil for more fun and games, and 2012 will not be for the faint of heart.  30-60 days food, water, supplies, cash in small bills and protection for you and your families is a must to acquire now.  If you live in an urban environment, make plans to move quickly away from the golden horde and the mayhem that will ensue.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:07 | 2024782 ugmug
ugmug's picture


Intelligence is no cure for stupidity!


Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:11 | 2024795 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

i do note also in an article at 321gold that Israel sold US Patriot missiles to China, but the shipment was intercepted in Finland. have been waiting for something to connect China, Israel, Bin Laden and 9/11. let me say that will be the conspiracy theory of 2012. i consider nearly a given that Russia has never supported Iran to the degree anyone believes, that Russia might give Iran weapons, but they would give the US the ECM keys to defeat those weapons. China however is another problem, since the Chinese really have no terror problem, such as Russia, and its former client states, like Ukraine, implicted in the Patriot missile story, and especially Chechnya. The Chinese have no problem dealing with problematic client states, such as North Korea, and actually use NKs intransigence to diplomatic advantage, (recall the Korean war). China would actually back up Iran, and probably already has, if you get my point, GW Bush signed WTO just two weeks after WTC. no foreign policy debate was needed, it was done deal over and above America's so-called terror emergency.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:19 | 2024798 fuu
fuu's picture

Germany sold the patriots to Korea. Well at least according to the South Korean Ambassador to Finland. It was part of the regular weapons deals between Germany and Korea.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 19:07 | 2025338 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

I'm waiting for the Finns to leak the manufacturing serial numbers of the missiles. Then it will become clear to whom these missiles were delivered originally and who sold them onwards.

The quick statements of German authorities look more like damage control than an explanation why these missiles were not shipped under normal documentation, but smuggled as "fireworks".

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