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Iran Military Shoots Down US Drone, Threatens Response

Tyler Durden's picture


From PressTV:

A senior Iranian military official says Iran's Army has shot down a remote-controlled reconnaissance drone operated by the US military in the eastern part of the country.


The informed source said on Sunday that Iran Army's electronic warfare unit successfully targeted the American-built RQ-170 Sentinel stealth aircraft after it crossed into Iranian airspace over the border with neighboring Afghanistan.


He added that the US reconnaissance drone has been seized with minimum damage.


The RQ-170 is a stealth unmanned aircraft designed and developed by Lockheed Martin Company.


The US military and the CIA use the drone to launch missile strikes in Afghanistan and in Pakistan's northwestern tribal region.


The unnamed Iranian military official further added that “due to the clear border violation, the operational and electronic measures taken by the Islamic Republic of Iran's Armed Forces against invading aircraft will not remain limited to the Iran's borders.


The report comes as the United States has beefed up its military presence in and around the Persian Gulf region in recent months in the wake of popular uprising in Bahrain.


The US Department of Defense says Washington is closely monitoring the developments in Bahrain, which is the headquarters of the US Navy's Fifth Fleet and holds some 4,200 US service members.

From Reuters:

Iran's military said on Sunday it had shot down a U.S. reconnaissance drone aircraft in eastern Iran, a military source told state television.


"Iran's military has downed an intruding RQ-170 American drone in eastern Iran," Iran's Arabic-language Al Alam state television network quoted the unnamed source as saying.


"The spy drone, which has been downed with little damage, was seized by the Iranian armed forces."


Iran shot down the drone at a time when it is trying to contain foreign reaction to the storming of the British embassy in Tehran on Tuesday, shortly after London announced that it would impose sanctions on Iran's central bank in connection with Iran's controversial nuclear enrichment programme.


Britain evacuated its diplomatic staff from Iran and expelled Iranian diplomats in London in retaliation, and several other EU members recalled their ambassadors from Tehran.


The attack dragged Iran's relations with Europe to a long-time low.


Washington and EU countries have been discussing measures to restrict Iran's oil exports since the United Nations nuclear watchdog issued a report in November with what it said was evidence that Tehran had worked on designing an atom bomb.  

And from AP:

Iran's semiofficial Fars news agency says the country's armed forces have shot down an unmanned U.S. spy plane that violated Iranian airspace along its eastern border.


The report says the plane was an RQ170 type drone and is now in the possession of Iran's armed forces. The Fars news agency is close to the powerful Revolutionary Guard.


Iran is locked in a dispute with the U.S. and its allies over Tehran's disputed nuclear program, which the West believes is aimed at the development of nuclear weapons. Iran denies the accusations, saying its nuclear program is entirely peaceful.

It appears Iran plans to retaliate:

Iran's response to the downed U.S. drone's violation of its airspace will not be limited to the country's borders, a military source told state television.


"The Iranian military's response to the American spy drone's violation of our airspace will not be limited to Iran's borders any more," Iran's Arabic language Al Alam television quoted the military source as saying, without giving details.


Iran said in July it had shot down an unmanned U.S. spy plane over the holy city of Qom, near its Fordu nuclear site.

As a reminder from Stratfor, here is how the US navy was deployed most recently as of Wednesday. Looks like life for the Stennis boys is about to get exciting.


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Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:55 | 1944579 Maestro Maestro
Maestro Maestro's picture

You're right.  It sat at Carmax for two months.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:26 | 1944202 JPMorgan
JPMorgan's picture

The Iranians have a right to protect their aerospace.

The US and the UK are trying to pick ANOTHER fight with no justification so far.

Where is the hard proof that Iran is working on building a nuclear weapon???

It's just another resource rich country that THEY want indirect control of via a approved thrid party puppet government that does what it's told when it's told.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:28 | 1944220 bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

"Where is the hard proof that Iran is working on building a nuclear weapon???"


Seriously, are you that delusional?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:37 | 1944250 JPMorgan
JPMorgan's picture

Would that be the same hard proof that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction??? (Yeah they found a shit load of them ah).

As Celente keeps saying... they are liars and psychopaths and they are taking us to war.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:47 | 1944391 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

are you tight w/ him?

he predicts war & stuff all the time

how did he not get drafted?

truthfully, like the rest of the politically-connected at the time? 

at least his little asswipe trolls have stopped defecating all over every string

well, most of them, at least.  the guy doesn't mind publicity, i take it.  he and ORI ought to get a fuking room!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:56 | 1944428 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

I gather you must have proof, or you have esp, or espn

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:27 | 1944216 bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

Ron Paul wants to hug the Aiyatolla

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:30 | 1944226 Postal
Postal's picture

"All I want for Christmas is a brand new war!"
 -- my g/f

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:44 | 1944266 navy62802
navy62802's picture

All I want for Christmas is $10 gas at the pump. Then we can watch the Republicans get on the TV and talk about how essential it is that we bomb Iran. That would make my Christmas complete.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:25 | 1944375 SamAdams1234
SamAdams1234's picture

Dear Senator Santa Liberman

I've been a good boy and all I want for Christmas is a soldier to play with --


-lil' Sen, Lindsay Graham

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:32 | 1944233 Barry Mcokiner
Barry Mcokiner's picture

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:46 | 1944267 TheAkashicRecord
TheAkashicRecord's picture

//We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists//

You never hear in the news, "200 killed today when Atheist rebels took heavy shelling from the Agnostic stronghold in the north" 

- Doug Stanhope 

Secularism is nothing to be afraid of, rather it should be cheered if it comes about organically.  The danger is when the State mandates it and wishes to replace God with the a State that shares God's omnipotence and omniprescence.  Having a paternalistic view of god may in fact make one more susceptible in accepting the paternalistic state, but we, as soverign individuals, can say no to both.  

Name a genocide or war that was started because of a lack of belief in something.  Yes, many tyrants themselves did not believe in God, but they did not kill because of that, whereas, many have killed because of their belief in God.

"It's important to abolish the unconscious dogmatism that makes people think their way of looking at reality is the only sane way of viewing the world. My goal is to try to get people into a state of generalized agnosticism, not agnosticism about God alone, but agnosticism about everything."


Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:03 | 1944318 Colonel
Colonel's picture

That's because the nihilists/atheists end up calling themselves communists. And we all know communists were peaceniks right?  /s

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:27 | 1944497 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Real communists are.

The core of the russian communist party are peaceful socialists. I would be happy for them to win the election, now that opportunists and fascists have abandoned the communist party for United Russia.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:59 | 1944599 Colonel
Colonel's picture

Go blow smoke up someone else's ass cocksucking commie.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 09:55 | 1946251 falak pema
falak pema's picture

top : you've been out trolled right there! >>

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:34 | 1944240 wandstrasse
wandstrasse's picture

a new chapter in sequel: 'Elite bankers against mankind'. If it were not so damn boring - because the bankers win in EACH and EVERY scene, mankind has never had the slightest chance... but what shall we do? we MUST watch.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:40 | 1944251 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture



With NDAA nearly law, it looks like the roundup of "terrorists" on American soil, citizenss included, is about to commence as soon as the attack on Iran begins. For those who aren't aware, NDAA allows the government and military to detain "terrorists" without charges, so anyone deemed a "terrorist" by Joe Lieberman and his ilk will likely find himself in a FEMA camp, or worse.  

Anyone think that the drone was just a dummy that was allowed to be taken down? A setup to help things along? 



Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:45 | 1944269 Smokey1
Smokey1's picture

We should have paved over that goddamn country thirty years ago back when the cur Jimmy Carter was disgracing this nation. Iran has done nothing but talk shit ever since that goddamn embarrassment Carter refused to stand up for this country.

You think Reagan would have put up with that shit ? George W.? Cheney? HELL NO. They'd have wiped that fucking shit-eating country off the fucking map.

I can't wait for Newt to get in office and invade those diaper headed Arabs. We'll see how much shit they talk then. That country will be a radioactive pile of rubble before Newt's first month as POTUS is in the books.

Newt's first act as Commander In Chief should be to make Dick Cheney the Secretary of Defense, and his second act should be to nuke Iran, Pakistan, Syria, North Korea, Afghanistan, Yemen, Russia, China, Egypt, the Philipines, Malaysia, Thailand and Mexico---in that order.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 13:49 | 1947173 LocalHero
LocalHero's picture

It's first-class A-holes like this (well, and Bush, Cheney, Hillary & Obama) that make me ashamed to be an American.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:45 | 1944270 grid-b-gone
grid-b-gone's picture

For the U.S. policy pattern, consider Hussein, Bin Laden, Khadafi, Ahmadinejad.

For many Iranians, there is a desire to regain more western-like freedoms lost after the 1979 revolution. If the developing nuclear threat and hard-line leadership can be reversed without destroying pro-western attitudes, that's the policy seam to aim for.

In an effort to avoid past policy mistakes, don't expect a repeat of the Iraq and Afghanistan experiences. 

Oil is a major factor, maybe the underlying factor. Related to the oil, there is the China factor. China has been buying resources worldwide with no concern for who gets the money or what they intend to do with it. At the same time, they have been unwilling to incur the expense and responsibility of promoting a positive leadership role equal to their growing economic ranking.

The U.S. will probably keep limiting the power (or breathing capability) of some of China's best friends without damaging their sweethart deals to the point that China feels the need to defend their resource purchases militarily.

It seems as if China works a spreadsheet on their decisions, undervaluing the social elements, and always chooses the cheapest way to secure their needed resources.   

This is a delicate situation to ensure U.S. and Israeli nuclear security, limit Ahmadinejad without hurting pro-western goodwill, and encroaching on China's Iranian connections without triggering any overt reaction. 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:46 | 1944275 GCT
GCT's picture

Have any of you thought this was done intentionally.  Why not?  They need a next generation drone.  This summer they were having problems with the control systems being blocked and viruses being transmitted to them.  Most real secrets do indeed have a self destruct mechanism in play.  Probably a stripped down version flown so it could indeed be captured for more headlines and more reasons to invade Iran. We must first cut off Russia in Syria though.  Cannot have them playing in the Med!

Notcie how Iran never spoke of those accidents at their nuclear research areas.  Hmm wonder why.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:49 | 1944276 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

The drone type was easy to look up by a web search. Very modern and fully stealth designed.  Funny, what need for fully stealth designed drones to work over Afghanistans. Tell me Taliban has radar sites and radar guided missiles! I think not. The most simple and cheap drone design is all that Afghanistan needs. Now if you are working over Iran, then full stealth capability is a must.

If Russia is working to some degree with Iranian air defenses, then they have told Iran how to detect and shoot down stealth. Even the Serbs knocked down a manned stealth with out of date missiles and radars after being given the method to use by friendly Russian military sources.

Iran is not up to date with it's air defenses because Russia refused to sell S-300's despite a signed contract to do so. Israel and the USA went absolutely nuts when they heard S-300 was being sold to Iran. I don't know what they threatened Russia with, but it worked. Russian cancelled the contract. As Isreal said at the time "S-300 is a game changer". Meaning losses to this mobile system would preclude more than a week of air strikes, as by that point losses would have become unbearable. It's all about knocking down a few aircraft every day until the toll adds up and the enemy can't carry on without lossing the bulk of it's force.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:53 | 1944291 roccman
roccman's picture

Iran = bad cop

USA = good cop


hegelian dialectic


does anyone really think iran does not know about "peak" everything and overshoot?

 not likely


enjoy the show folks

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:55 | 1944298 FoieGras
FoieGras's picture

This is quite an irrelevant story.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:56 | 1944301 sabra1
sabra1's picture

due to the clear border violation, the operational and electronic measures taken by the Islamic Republic of Iran's Armed Forces against invading aircraft will not remain limited to the Iran's borders.

 in other words, this gives oBLAHma the green light to stage red flag events!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:21 | 1944367 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

Or maybe Iran's masters are reading from the same playbook as ours?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:05 | 1944325 Reptil
Reptil's picture

"since the United Nations nuclear watchdog issued a report in November with what it said was evidence that Tehran had worked on designing an atom bomb." (Reuters)



Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:13 | 1944341 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

Apart from the politics of spying on Iran, I have a real problem with the language used regarding these drones. A drone is a male bee whose only purpose in life is to fertilize a queen bee. That's not what we have here. What we have is a terminator, or as they themselves call it: a sentinal. They are spying/killing machines and have no other purpose. I have to wonder about the choice of names, given that they always seem to come from the most dystopian of novels and films, suggesting that these stories have been more of a wedge into human consciousness to get us used to the idea of all-powerful killing machines, ie. our new gods. Obey or be destroyed. It's all an academic question when they're flying halfway around the world, but having perfected their techniques on "terrorists," and having developed enough brainwashed people (those who will kill real people as if they were playing a video game), it will all be coming back home soon.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:41 | 1944524 Mary Wilbur
Mary Wilbur's picture

You've added some style to this grim news. I like your imagination.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:41 | 1944525 Mary Wilbur
Mary Wilbur's picture

You've added some style to this grim news. I like your imagination.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:46 | 1944537 falak pema
falak pema's picture

the Assyrians invented mass retribution in war, cruelty unseen until then. When their rivals took them out they razed Nineveh, the capital like never before. All its population decimated. People learn new methods and dominant  role models very fast. 

Its like that in all domains where drones are; I refer to the mass media sex videos as well. The role of woman has got less goddess-like more submissive object in the last thirty years, since porn became commercial. Now the financials have gone viral, one sector feeding off the other. Societal tipping point. 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:54 | 1944570 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

The Assyrians? What freaking millenia was that?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 17:31 | 1944844 falak pema
falak pema's picture

They had a boss man called : nebu can nezer... meaning "I want your weapons of mass destruction. Pronto." 

Does that ring a bell? He was hot on Iraq, was Nebu. Like the other guy. (in a place called Mossul, after they took him out.) You know it sits on the river called Tigris, and don't ask me what millenium the Tigris was born! 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 17:52 | 1944884 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

Is that nebu can nezar the 1st or the 2nd?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 18:49 | 1945003 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Nebu only came in one model, but I can sell you his buddy : ashur benny pal. He was boss man at Nineveh before Nebu took his family out.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 19:07 | 1945051 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

And this is relevant because..........

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 07:27 | 1946083 falak pema
falak pema's picture

The game of cruelty goes on... Ashur, Nebu and GWB, all played the same game in Iraq. History repeats, and cruelty gets ratched up, drone exponentially. 

Are you so hooked on coke to not understand historical dope?

The cultural divide between those who think they are 'the chosen few' and the others is getting exponential. Clash of civilizations will only make it worse. Both ways. 

And this Oligarchs of the world vs peoples, sheeples, stand-off, is now spilling over OUTSIDE of the military conflict zone, into sex culture spread world wide for commercial reasons, and the financialized labour arbitrage model. (see my remarks above at beginning)

It all stems from the same mind set : We the elites count; you the people don't. You're cannon fodder, you're sex manipulation material and/or addicted hyper consumer, and your pensions and salaries are toast; if we don't earn our profits/bonuses according to our Oligopolisitic business-cruelty model. We will take less and less prisoners; you're for us or against us.

Cruelty as sub-product of hegemonical play is now part of the Globalist Mantra, Big Time. The world is now reaching tipping point. 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:12 | 1944343 slvrizgold
slvrizgold's picture

BIGGEST COWARDS ON EARTH:   The little faggots that sit back at the base and fly these fuckers around killing innocent people without even risking a fingernail.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 04:17 | 1965643 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

I'm sorry I can't give you 100000 greens, but you are dead-on (pun not intended).

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:16 | 1944355 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Poor little drone...just minding its business spreading democrary and saving civilians....


Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:18 | 1944362 SubjectivObject
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"Aviation Week postulates that these elements suggest the designers have avoided 'highly sensitive technologies' due to the near certainty of eventual operational loss inherent with a single engine design and a desire to avoid the risk of compromising leading edge technology."


Self fulfilling prophesy.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:18 | 1944363 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

Whitehouse Shitbeetle: "See? Obviously the US wasn't behind the bombings at Isfahan. The minute one of OURS so much as strays over the border it gets shot down."

Perfect PR. We didn't start the fire, but we'll sure as hell put it out. With Depleted Uranium.

Humble fight club member, this is what we're up against.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:20 | 1944366 jomama
jomama's picture

i wonder what the US would do if we found an iranian drone in our airspace?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:30 | 1944384 JR
JR's picture

While the US warmongers and their American Zionists have constantly urged either Israel or the US to take out Iranian nuclear sites before they develop weapon capability, it now turns out that there is a new “shift in the rationale for war."

M.J. Rosenberg says the biggest problem American Zionists have “is not Iran getting a nuclear weapon and testing it, it’s Iran getting a nuclear weapon and not using it. Because the second that they have one and they don't do anything bad, all of the naysayers are going to come back and say, 'See, we told you Iran is a responsible power. We told you Iran wasn't getting nuclear weapons in order to use them immediately.' ...  And they will eventually define Iran with nuclear weapons as not a problem.”

Writes Rosenberg in “American Enterprise Institute Admits the Problem with Iran Is Not That It Would Use Nukes”: Suddenly the struggle to stop Iran is not about saving Israel from nuclear annihilation. After a decade of scare-mongering about the second coming of Nazi Germany, the Iran hawks are admitting that they have other reasons for wanting to take out Iran...

“The shift in the rationale for war was kicked off this week when Danielle Pletka, head of the American Enterprise Institute's (AEI) foreign policy shop and one of the most prominent neoconservatives in Washington, explained what the current obsession with Iran's nuclear program is all about.” …

Continues Rosenberg, “This admission that the problem with a nuclear Iran is not that it would attack Israel but that it would alter the regional balance of power is incredibly significant. The American Enterprise Institute is not Commentary, the Republican Jewish Coalition, or the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, which are not exactly known for their intellectual heft.

“It is, along with the Heritage Foundation, the most influential conservative think tank. That is why it was able to play such an influential role in promoting the invasion of Iraq. Take a look at this page from the AEI website from January 2002 (featuring, no surprise, a head shot of Richard Perle). It is announcing one of an almost endless series of events designed to instigate war with Iraq, a war that did not begin for another 14 months. (Perle himself famously began promoting a war with Iraq within days of 9/11, according to former CIA director George Tenet.) AEI's drumbeat for war was incessant, finally meeting with success in March 2003.

And now they are doing it again. On Monday, Sen. Mark Kirk (R-IL) — AIPAC's favorite senator — will keynote an event at AEI, with Pletka and Donnelly offering responses. It will be moderated by Fred Kagan, another AEI fellow and Iraq (now Iran) war hawk. The event is built on the premise that "ongoing efforts to stop Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons have failed."

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:37 | 1944513 Mary Wilbur
Mary Wilbur's picture

They have failed.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:31 | 1944387 RazorForex
RazorForex's picture

I hope this is not another "Gulf of Tonkin" moment, cause we already know how that one turned out.

Gulf of Tonkin: McNamara Admits It Didn’t Happenn:
Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:40 | 1944398 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Checked in at Neo-Con central, I mean CNN at noon. Well, they had the usual suspects on for a panel discussion wherein attacking Iran was the subject. Much talk of an air war and a backing of Israel if they start the war. Pretty much the Neo-Con party line over at CNN. Note that none of the war mongers on the panel will go to this war, their kids will not go to this war. So it is a no lose war for them!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:45 | 1944403 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Tyler or others knowledgeabout about Stratfor and historical maritime fleet positioning:

What's the CVN-77 George Bush doing over by Spain? It normally operates in the Strait of Hormuz (from a ZH article a couple weeks ago), had moved next to Syria a couple weeks ago and now is all the way over by Spain now.


Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:47 | 1944408 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Tyler or others knowledgeable about about Stratfor and historical maritime fleet positioning:

What's the CVN-77 George Bush doing over by Spain? It normally operates in the Strait of Hormuz (from a ZH article a couple weeks ago), had moved next to Syria a couple weeks ago and now is all the way over by Spain now.


Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:04 | 1944449 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

Thanksgiving liberty in Marseilles, followed by pre-deployment in Mallorca (visiting Rafael Nadal, likely), now deployment rejoining 6th Fleet.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:46 | 1944409 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

Can the FED's mandate be prolonged indefinitely by a presidential order due to military state of emergency? Just wondering, because I'm wiling to bet anything that people in power will do anything to stay in power.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 14:56 | 1944427 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

I don't agree that they have to wait until X-mas is over.

Pearl Harbor was on Dec 7th... it's always a great time for war!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:11 | 1944465 assetcoin
assetcoin's picture

So.... Metals rise tonight?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:23 | 1944489 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

Does tinned meat count?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:17 | 1944478 Nathan Hale
Nathan Hale's picture

Anyone notice the odd way initial and maintenance margins are set up to trade CL (crude oil) contracts at the CME? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would appear that they expect some impressive volatility until 2014 or so, after which it appears volatility dies off markedly. For example, any spread betweeen outrights with expirations between 02/2012-04/2012 and 05/2012-10/2012 demand $1485 initial and $1100 maintenance, allowing a maximum time interval of 8 months and 12/2011-01/2012 to 05/2012-10/2012 commanding $1755 init/$1300 maint for max 10 months.  Compared with $2025/$1500 for spreads like 11/2012-06/2013 to 05/2014-04/2015 (18 months) and $1688/$1250 for 05/2014-04/2015 to 05/2015-12/2020 (78 months). These vast gulfs in potential exposure and an actual discount on margin for longer dated spreads seems odd to me, although I must admit that I am not an expert in CL trading by any stretch. Anyone care to explain/comment?

Link to CME Margins Page

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:18 | 1944480 GNWT
GNWT's picture

OK, stop the bull about Israel, Democrats, Republicans and the garbage they want you fighting about.


In 2008, as the financial system imploded two months before the election, with congress neutered, Hank Paulson and his terrorist friends stole 800 million and a few bucks in the side with insider info on FNMA and FMAC.

This is the next step, war with Iran and probably China to distract from the oligarchs criminal transfer of private debt to the public.

Talking about Israel, Muslims, etc is stupid, they divide you like that.

The Muslim Brotherhood is part of the Bilderburg Group, think about it.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:25 | 1944492 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

Well said.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:30 | 1944503 farmerjohn2112
farmerjohn2112's picture

Bitchez, one doesn't shoot down an RQ-170 and inflict 'minor damage'. It either lost power and glided to a landing (and was found by the Iranians) or was purposely landed to stir the pot. Either way, hold on tight.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:31 | 1944507 forrestdweller
forrestdweller's picture

can anybody tell me why Iran would not have the right to develop and posses an nuclear weapons.

according to which standards is decided woh can and canoot posses nuclear weapons.

to all my knowledge, iran is still a souvereign country with the same rights as the Us of A and other countries owning nukes.

is say let them have a nuke. it will bring more balance in the world.

and the iranian government is not stupid. they will not use it once they have it.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:57 | 1944555 Monedas
Monedas's picture

If your sworn, blood enemy threatened to kill you to your face.....would you sell him a loaded pistol ? Some of this stuff is elemental.....Dr. Watson ! If you want your sovereignity have to respect the Sovereignity of Israel, USA and the UK ! The Iranian government is stupid ! If you admire them, your mother short changed your education !  This is not the MSM.....this is a heads up forum.....better luck convincing the brain dead !

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 16:16 | 1944650 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

How does N. Korea fit in your calculus?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 18:11 | 1944914 Monedas
Monedas's picture

When the Clintons gave nuclear fuel to the Norkoms.....they redefined the stupidity of Liberal compassion ! Years later Allbright quipped, "They tricked us !" ! I'm an ex telephone installer and I feel light years more intelligent than Robert Reich in all his specious pomposity ! That's how far liberalism has degenerated......better, has revealed itself ! North Korea is more dangerous than Iran because Koreans are smarter and therefore more dangerous as an adversary ! The Norkoms got bad have their war of "liberation" at the end of WWII ! They are bitter because they suffered horridly for all the WWII surplus armaments.....and they were denied a complete victory !The Vietnamese were done dirt by Russia and China too ! Have your revolution.....oh, by the way, we're going Capitalist ! Monedas 2011 Comedy Jihad Loving Commie On Commie Treachery !

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 18:27 | 1944915 Monedas
Monedas's picture

I think the Norkoms have a brighter future than Iran ! They are surrounded by upscale prospering economies and their people are smart, lean (hee hee !) and disciplined ! I'm afraid the Iranians and Muslims are hopeless......look how they've let tiny Israel dominate and define their ignorant, hateful existence ? They can't get out of their own way !

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:39 | 1944516 hungarianboy
hungarianboy's picture

How about this.

Every citizen of the EU moves to the US with all their stuff and everything that can be moved.

Every citizen of the US moves into Europe with everything that can be moved.

Then The US of A is closer to:  1-Russia, 2-Middle east, 3- Africa.

So those trigger happy dickheads from the US can fight as man and not bringing us in Europe into another bullshit war. I bet the US is the biggest coward to do such thing.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:08 | 1945828 prole
prole's picture

Hey we are sorry for dragging you into that World War 1 Fiasco. I agree it takes a Jack-ass to start wars.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:42 | 1944518 hungarianboy
hungarianboy's picture

Sorry double post

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:41 | 1944526 WileyKileySmile...
WileyKileySmileyinThailey's picture

Try Applying Common Sense---or get crazy and make logic applicable to this scenario----My Brain just farted too!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:43 | 1944533 smoked
smoked's picture

USofA get a gripp/e ratios get cheap labour jobs 50 million people foodstamps can't pay of student loans import from china  100 million on foodstamps all be imprisoned for your vieuws buy ubs dry out the alps...

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:43 | 1944535 Monedas
Monedas's picture

The Muslims are about 1.15 Millenia behind the West, 1.05 Millenia behind the East, they got one foot in Africa......that's why we call 'em Sand Niggahs ! Until they get their act together......their oil is the best thing they got going ! Pretty sad assessment ! They need some serious soul searching !!! Monedas 2011 Comedy Jihad Someone Needs To Say It.....Their Mothers Won't !

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:55 | 1944578 smoked
smoked's picture

FCC the airwaves are free plug in furn ace book an appointment hot air!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:57 | 1944586 WileyKileySmile...
WileyKileySmileyinThailey's picture

WAHHHHHH---why that bearded guy in his dress not give me my airplane back----I so so sorry.... Nothing fits but really it all does so well...unfortunately!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 16:00 | 1944592 sexcellent
sexcellent's picture
actually the drone was just a hiker. the us government negotiated the release of the drone, and the drone will be doing a press conference with its drone wife and drone family welcoming it home.
Sun, 12/04/2011 - 16:09 | 1944631 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

For what it is worth the craft in question is not considered stealth but is what they call "low observable."  I figure Iran is just trying to find something capable of carrying their first nuke as far as the oil facilities at Ras Tanura. 

Iran denies the accusations, saying its nuclear program is entirely peaceful.

Riiiiight, and Goldman Sachs is secretly a philanthropic fund to support widows and orphans. 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 17:10 | 1944795 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

About as peaceful as any other nuclear armed nation in the world I suspect.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 16:12 | 1944632 Monedas
Monedas's picture

 Did you see the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal ? It looked like a casting call for Planet of the Apes......Monkeys with wigs ! There is much good in the Muslim cultures......they have to stop being jerks so we can enjoy their good side ? Is that asking too much ? They need a WWII style spanking ! Germany and Japan and Italy were the better for their hard learned lesson ! There is no reason to believe the Muslims aren't capable of benefitting from a little tough love ! If not, they should just pack up and move to sub-Saharan Africa ! Monedas 2011 Comedy Jihad Spank 'Em Good !

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 16:13 | 1944642 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

I think it is plane to sea that us will drone on about this until itsran its course. Of course, I might be just winging it, but the raw facts looks like a back door to war.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 16:18 | 1944655 DarthVaderMentor
DarthVaderMentor's picture

Pretty soon folks it's going to be more than just an exciting video game to watch on the evening news and cheer for Americans, military and civilian alike. It'll be brutal, bloody and vicious warfare and we better be not only physically, but mentally ready for this inevitable confrontation. The civilian populace here will be for the first time in a hundred years a reachable target for the enemy. Iran will eventually lose, but it's not going to be a pushover like Iraq or Afghanistan. This is the center of the tumor we created in the 60's and it won't be possible to eradicate it without a serious fight with lots of American and European casualties, both abroad AND HERE.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 16:18 | 1944657 smoked
smoked's picture

NY mph O does it take letter maniacs!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 16:19 | 1944663 forrestdweller
forrestdweller's picture

Iran is a very sophisticated and well develloped culture, and very old too.

there are very many highly educated and intelligent people there. well thinking and full of good intentions. off course you will find a lot of primitive people who lead their lives by religious rules and traditions rather than by knowledge and common sense.

the government is very conservative and warmongering. but it is more rhetorics than real action.

It looks a bit like the great US of A with the difference that the US of A destroys whole countries and civiliztions for their oil and lollars.

i despise the iranion regime, but i think the regime in the US of A is far more antisocial and destructive.

i say give the iranians their nuclear weapon.


Sun, 12/04/2011 - 16:57 | 1944763 Scalaris
Scalaris's picture

Iran is a very sophisticated and well develloped culture, and very old too.


Indeed, but can it wage war against another country by using radio controlled toys thousands of miles away, while eating cheetos, drinking dr pepper and updating its facebook status at the same time?

Because now I'm starting to think that they have been programming me for this since I was 12 and I was playing 2D air battle shooting games on my Nintendo.

Now that's an entirely different kind of sophistication.. 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 17:20 | 1944821 forrestdweller
forrestdweller's picture

indeed. a different kind of sophistication.

somehow, most of u have been taught that spending monqy of chaep plastic shit, becoming obese because of low-quality but high quantity food, watsching tv and playing videogames, is sophistication.

we're all convinced about our moral superiority.

bigotry it is.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 16:28 | 1944679 batz
batz's picture


Consider that Iran could fly sorties and execute other kinds of incursions from Venezuela. Puerto Rico, Guantanamo, and the Gulf of Mexico are all within range.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 16:36 | 1944706 farmerjohn2112
farmerjohn2112's picture

You are the sole cause of my early Sunday happy hour.

Go Pack!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 16:27 | 1944682 casaananda
casaananda's picture

FUCK THE RETARDS like Bill Kristol and other Jewish Neocons, always pushing for war. They are the devastation of the USA. And fuck that SOB Netanyahu, too.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 17:06 | 1944784 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture


Sun, 12/04/2011 - 17:26 | 1944829 loftgroovv
loftgroovv's picture

The British will fucking nuke Iran soon.



Sun, 12/04/2011 - 17:50 | 1944874 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Iran isn't going to attack anyone.....except their own people.....a la Syria ! Remember one Jew equals 100+ Iranians ! The world is tired of these towel heads mucking everything up ! Shut up and get out of the way.....people are trying to make a living here ! Just go away....were sick and tired of your stupid's not a good business model ! Duh..mb Fucks !  You think the Russians and the Chicoms are impressed.....they've got their own "Muslim" problems.....big time ! Only the Muslims could make George Bush 43 look brilliant by comparison ! That's something to be proud of ? Monedas 2011 Comedy Jihad Embarrassment For The Musfucks !

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 17:52 | 1944883 user2011
user2011's picture

Come to think of it, Iran will give the drone to the Chinese and Russian. Iranian in hopes to get Chinese and Russian supports to fend off Israel and US.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 18:43 | 1944984 Monedas
Monedas's picture

The Russkies and the Chicoms aren't going to back Iranian losers ! We respect North Korea more than the Iranofucks.....they got balls and brains.....and they'll come over to our side before they hook up with Muslim Middle Earthers ! They don't respect you ! Hugo Chavez and Evo Morales like you....maybe ? You know about Bolivia's leader Evo Morales and his vision for "The New Socialism of the Good Life" ? Makes you wonder about the "Old Socialism" ?

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:33 | 1945869 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

the russkeys gave Iran some super weapons, they are all too willing to give us the ECM keyss for the right deal (take those fucking missiles -that Dick Cheney- aimed at Moscow away!!!) Obama has been okay with the deal, but yes Moscow has their own Muslim problem, (Chechnya) which they want to go away. they proposed a Machievellian deal to Bush, which he didn't understand. they already betrayed Syria which had THEIR missile defense system, which was compromised by Israeli aircraft as A TEST. still Bush didn't understand, and the Chicago Gangster doesn't get it either. he merely wants the gambling, prostitution and other corporate goodies his friends demand. he never played RISK i guess. anyway this is a conflict of two visions of world order, one divide the spoils, the other Pax Obamacus, and corporate worker bees for everyone, and corporate profits for wall street. hmmmmm

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 17:56 | 1944889 UnderDeGun
UnderDeGun's picture

The big difference between "worked for Bush" and working for Obama, as regards war and reelection, is glaring. The majority of people trusted Bush and had symbolism (911/bullhorn) that made them feel "safe" with him.

With that in mind President O has zero cache of ANY of those things that worked in the favor of Bush. All the presidents that are pointed to as having wars cement their reelections had a level of trust from the American people - for whatever reason (valid or not) people gave it to them.

It is my belief that any major war will cement-shoes any reelection hopes of the this mentally and morally crippled administration.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 18:06 | 1944896 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Oh, ZH, you wags.

This story was run by Iranian State TV; Al-J hasn't confirmed it, US military hasn't commented and so on and so forth. This isn't the first time the Iranians have claimed to have downed a drone and not been able to produce proof. (Third time this year)

Pakistan also runs drones: (although, yes... ho-hum on the tech front).

Council on Foreign Relations:

There's a high probablilty that drones are being used (nods to posters mentioning "Gary") but there we go. If you wanted to get tinfoil about this, it was probably a Raven being used for recon by a black op team looking for targets / pipelines. Not the Predator / attack drones / long range recon ones you're thinking of.




(Wiki: On 4 December 2011, Iran's semi-official Fars News Agency reported the country's armed forces had shot down an RQ-170 that violated Iranian airspace along its eastern border.[21][22] Iranian official news agency IRNA also reported that the downed RQ-170 UAV was slightly damaged and is currently in the hands of the Iranian forces.[23] An Al Jazeera report suggests that the drone had been brought down by a virtual attack from Iran's cyberwarfare unit, after taking control of it.[24] A statement released by ISAF Joint Command that same day confirmed the loss of a drone.[25]


So, hmm. Someone is very, very, very keen to have this confirmed. Can't remember the last time the ISAF confirmed a loss of material on the day after it happened. Spooktastic.


Sun, 12/04/2011 - 18:09 | 1944916 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Please tell me you don't believe ANYTHING the CFR says or writes.

This CFR a CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION and needs to be abolished.

Most people do not know who these PUKES are that you refer to.

The CFR is NOT the worlds friends....

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 18:19 | 1944930 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

I think that word "spooktastic" sufficiently expressed my doubt about the entirety of the links I supplied. Gave you a +1 for critical thinking anyhow.

CFR has a definite mandate, and some impressive hits (hmm.. try looking up a SF micro-lending scheme beginning with "K" that gives no profit from the hipsters for lending, but has 24-80% interest at the local levels for instance. Hint: she was a MD, has now moved onto better things) ~ but please. I'm not a chimp. I know their intentions. That's not to say I disagree with all of them ;)


Here's a curve ball back: perhaps you should check out a few German - USA think tanks... AMC.. GMF etc etc... I think "German US 150 million DM think tank" might get you started. Then bother to track the 38 young leaders, and what they're doing. I posted this before, but was maybe too subtle ~ Bloomberg, Swiss division is a clue.



p.s. Awww, so cute. In 4 mins, someone junked my post... ninja-junker, u mad, jelly?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 18:57 | 1945026 xcehn
xcehn's picture

AL J did report this story, saying that the US denied that Iran shot down one of its drones.  Who to believe?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 18:02 | 1944898 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

The USA should put Hillary Rotten Clinton on the next drone over Iran.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 18:16 | 1944935 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture


A headline "IRAN captures..." would be more accurate than "shoots down".  Grabbing electronic control makes a meaningful difference.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 18:26 | 1944954 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

You could also simply block the incoming signals and the thing would cruise down due to design & internal software.

Taking control of a drone is something more than over-riding the incoming data; if you're planning to fly it instead, you'd need to 'convince' onboard that you were a higher priority / closer signal, all while the original data is flowing. It is far easier simply to block, and engage the drones own self-protection (and yes - who wants a $750,000k write off if the batteries go out during testing? No-one).


That doesn't mean that it is useful - one signal (satellite) could easily tell the onboard software / Bios to flash and render it all simple silicon ~ if not fused silicon if you've built in a 'dead man's switch'. That's the beauty of drones.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 19:01 | 1945036 N57Mike
N57Mike's picture


"In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies."
Winston Churchill

none of us know WTF is really going on....

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 19:25 | 1945099 DarthVaderMentor
DarthVaderMentor's picture

As the fog of misinformation and the smoke of propaganda begins to clear this appears to be a non-story. The US reports that it lost a UAV in western Afghanistan last week. Either it was shot down or suffered a malfunction. The UAV crashed either in Iranian soild or Afghan territory. If it crashed in Afghanistan, it was probably recovered by the Taliban/Al-Qaeda then passed over the border to the Iranians so they could claim it violated their borders and was an attack to their sovreignty. 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 20:02 | 1945179 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

I even provided a link to that report, but got a couple of junks for it... C'est la vie.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 20:01 | 1945177 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

Hmm, isn't this along the lines of pre-emptive strike that Bush Jr initiated?


"The Iranian military's response to the American spy drone's violation of our airspace will not be limited to Iran's borders any more"

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 20:22 | 1945221 ParaZite
ParaZite's picture

Imagine when China and Iran reverse engineer these in 5 days, and the skies are full of Iranian Drones with a picture of coolface on it... and on the side in Arabic... Problem Amerifats?

Or more likely... find out how to remote control all of our drones and bomb the shiite out of our bases with our own drones.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 21:28 | 1945375 wiebern
wiebern's picture

UAVs have some level of vulnerability to cyber attack.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:38 | 1945582 xcehn
xcehn's picture

The ZH updates to this story are going to be interesting.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 00:06 | 1945738 blindman
blindman's picture
Saturday, December 3, 2011
George Galloway vs. war mongering parrot over The War With Iran

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 03:19 | 1945961 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

How about this?

1) Load a few "juicy" areas of the drones avionic systems with Stuxnet V2.

2) Conspicuously fly into Iran, make sure the video feed and control channels are un-encrypted. Whistle while piloting the drone, to make sure your subterfuge is not discovered.

3) Act totally shocked and angry when Iran tells you it landed your top secret piece of spy equipment safely on their runway. (Shake fist and shout the name of Ahmadinijad like William Shatner did in the Wrath of Kahn Movie)

4) Kick back and enjoy as Iran infects it's most secret computers with a virus not even the creators know how to stop.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 19:21 | 1948774 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Something tells me you don't understand:

a) What stuxnet does or what it targets (and yes, you can eradicate it)


b) that there's already a Duqu descendant that's been infecting targeted German industrial companies


c) there's some new nasties out there as we speak

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!