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Iran Threatens Retaliation If US Carrier Returns To Persian Gulf, Where 5th Navy Is Stationed

Tyler Durden's picture


Don't look now but oil is spiking as the market is finally realizing that the escalation in the Persian Gulf is more than just for show (which curiously was once again set off by Obama establishing a full financial embargo of all Iranian activity on New Year's Eve, leading the Rial to plunge to a new record low, and about to set a brand new scramble for physical gold in the country on the verge of hyperinflation). At last check WTI was up over $2.50 with the market realizing that either Dalio will be right (central banks going into overdrive) or the Iranian escalation will finally pass the trigger threshold, and Brent was over $110. Today's escalation, just as requested by the US, is not another missile launch but a threat by the Iran military to retaliate if the US carrier John Stennis were to once again cross the Straits of Hormuz and return to the Gulf. As a reminder, as of December 23, as was observed by Stratfor before the hacker takedown and reported here, the Stennis was within shouting distance. From Reuters: "Iran will take action if a U.S. aircraft carrier which left the area because of Iranian naval exercises returns to the Gulf, the state news agency quoted army chief Ataollah Salehi as saying on Tuesday. "Iran will not repeat its warning ... the enemy's carrier has been moved to the Sea of Oman because of our drill. I recommend and emphasise to the American carrier not to return to the Persian Gulf," Salehi told IRNA." Which is interesting because considering that the 5th Navy is stationed in Bahrain, i.e., deep in the Gulf, there is no way that the Stennis or other carriers will not come back, meaning what is likely the terminal escalation has now been set in motion.

From Reuters:

"I advise, recommend and warn them (the Americans) over the return of this carrier to the Persian Gulf because we are not in the habit of warning more than once," the semi-official Fars news agency quoted Salehi as saying.


Salehi did not name the aircraft carrier or give details of the action Iran might take if it returned.


Iran completed 10 days of naval exercises in the Gulf on Monday, and said during the drills that if foreign powers imposed sanctions on its crude exports it could shut the Strait of Hormuz, through which 40 percent of the world's traded oil is shipped.


The U.S. Fifth Fleet, which is based in Bahrain, said it would not allow shipping to be disrupted in the strait.


Iran said on Monday it had successfully test-fired two long-range missiles during its naval drill, flexing its military muscle in the face of mounting Western pressure over its controversial nuclear programme.


Iran also said it had no intention of closing the Strait of Hormuz but had carried out "mock" exercises on shutting the strategic waterway.

The good news is that Iran has completed its 10 day wargame exercise without any major incidents. Which also means that the provocation level will escalate even more: after all the difference between the Tonkin Gulf and the Persian Gulf is just one word. Our advice, as usual, is to wait for the inevitable Goldman downgrade of crude which should be the catalyst to go all in on the viscous substance.


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Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:07 | 2028173 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

You cross this line, you die!


You cross THIS LINE, you die!



Typical middle eastern sabre-rattling garbage.  The Stennis already passed through the straights directly in their face last week.  They didn't do shit.  Maybe it plays well to the masses on Iran-TV.  Now, shoot some semi-automatics in the air and the set is complete.

Let's just get it all out there...infidels, streets running red with blood, blah blah blah.

Now shut up and get your shine box!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:10 | 2028181 i-dog
i-dog's picture

There's always one dork in the schoolyard cheering for the bully! Well done.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:11 | 2028187 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

I think you have a difficult time managing reality.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:12 | 2028191 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Says a man who clearly con-fuses his delusions with reality.


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:35 | 2028225 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Corporate media talking points.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 12:12 | 2028823 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



If Iran does more than sabre rattling it's gonna go from, "I Ran" to "I Ran While Shitting My Pants".     The MIC is chomping at the bit for way more revenues in 2012.


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:43 | 2028344 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

And you're batshit crazy for assuming you can.

Tell us who "rattles sabers" again, Mr. Bomb-bomb-bomb-bomb Iran.

Tried to disrupt another country's politics lately?

How's that embassy doing, Ms. Bachmann?

Shot down any passenger jets lately?

You're an ignorant clown and it shows.

And you stole that line from Robin Williams, shithead.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:46 | 2028348 Solid
Solid's picture

We are the bully? Please...they sponsor terrorism all around the globe, and everyone knows it. Oh I know, it's all our fault. It's our fault that bank robbers rob banks too. We are the ones that deprived them of the money they need to live, right?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:03 | 2028401 johnnymustardseed
johnnymustardseed's picture

One would have to wonder what your definition of terrorism is? Many see the US as the terrorist nation. How many wars have the Iranians started??

We seem to stick our nose in everywhere and then wonder why they hate us and more importantly why we are broke???


USA: El Salvador (1980), Libya (1981), Sinai (1982), Lebanon (1982 1983), Egypt (1983), Grenada (1983), Honduras (1983), Chad (1983), Persian Gulf (1984), Libya (1986) , Bolivia (1986), Iran (1987), Persian Gulf (1987), Kuwait (1987), Iran (1988), Honduras (1988), Panama (1988), Libya (1989), Panama (1989), Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru (1989), Philippines (1989), Panama (1989-1990), Liberia (1990), Saudi Arabia (1990), Iraq (1991), Zaire (1991), Sierra Leone (1992), Somalia (1992), Bosnia-Herzegovina (1993 to present), Macedonia (1993), Haiti (1994), Macedonia (1994), Bosnia (1995), Liberia (1996), Central African Republic (1996), Albania (1997), Congo/Gabon (1997), Sierra Leon (1997), Cambodia (1997), Iraq (1998), Guinea/Bissau (1998), Kenya/Tanzania (1998 to 1999), Afghanistan/Sudan (1998), Liberia (1998), East Timor (1999), Serbia (1999), Sierra Leon (2000), Yemen (2000), East Timor (2000), Afghanistan (2001 to present), Yemen (2002), Philippines (2002) , Cote d'Ivoire (2002), Iraq (2003 to present), Liberia (2003), Georgia/Djibouti (2003), Haiti (2004)...


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:19 | 2028458 Solid
Solid's picture

I have a different view of the world, that much is obvious. I see the US as a positive force, not an evil one.
I know we have stuck our nose where it may not belong at times, but I think that is the exception, rather than the rule. We are not perfect, but I'd rather live in the USA, than in Iran, and so would the people in Iran.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:34 | 2028515 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Positive force? For whom, exactly?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:31 | 2028693 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture






Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:42 | 2028536 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

Ah, the old "Spread civilization to the inferior cultures" argument for justifying empire, eh?

Here's a question for you:  We get along fine with China, a major nuclear power.  The two countries have good relations because we TRADE with them.

Why don't we do this with ALL nations?  Surely, if trade is the best path towards peace, there must be a reason we aren't engaging in it with Iran, Syria, etc.

Answer that question honestly and you'll likely emerge at the end of a very long rabbit hole.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:15 | 2028645 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

We may trade with them, but there is definitely a silent cold oil war going on with China, and so much more.  

All of this is about energy access, access, access, and the private fortunes of central bankers, as everyone must know by now.

I know I am off point with your emphasis, but I couldn't pass it up.

I do agree that we should start trading and stop "warring".

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:38 | 2028714 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

We're rebuilding The Greater Israel, from the Tigris to the Euphrates. All on the back of the poorest Americans.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:44 | 2028541 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

"At times"... did you see his list?  Of course we would rather live in the U.S. vs. Iran.  Our society has (until now) enjoyed the spoils of the world's reserve currency and the fat of our monetary ponzi scheme.  "Our" military is a "positive force" if you are a member of the banking cartel, outside of that, it's all propaganda.  But don't worry... the banking cartel has no allegiance to any country.  This war is going to end someday.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:46 | 2028551 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Solid, stop getting your talking points from CNN and Fox News

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:52 | 2028564 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Wait a second... aren't CNN and Fox News on opposite sides of the spectrum?  Now I'm confused.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:12 | 2028631 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

The Dialectic is alive and well!  All praise Hegel!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:46 | 2028741 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

In this corner, weighing in at an astounding 345 lbs is the Blue Team!

In the other corner, weighing in at exactly the same weight of 345 lbs is the Red Team!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:52 | 2028766 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

They are so good at it... it's difficult to not admire it, on some level.  Of course, people are pretty stupid, so perhaps it's no great feat.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:54 | 2028572 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

Solid - Why can you not see past the last Fox News or MSNBC propaganda piece. We are SO free that we are loosing our liberty and have already lost our fortune because we can't keep our nose in our own business. Or Federal Reserve must export the dollar or we are finished. Is it no wonder we set up a Central Bank in Lybia before the "rebels" even won the war? But to who's prosperity? The American people or the banksters? Why is Iran even engaged in terror? Because we started putting our nose in their business back in the 50's!! Why do they want a nuke? They want a nuke not because they intend on setting it off (as the CIA controlled media would suggest) but so we will stop messing with them!

Do you think Iran and others are going to just wake up one day and decide to set off a nuke in America? We have one of the largest nuke stockpiles in the world and they know we will respond. We also have one of the largest economies that they would love to access if they felt they could do so peacefully and without fear of covert overthrow. Islamic fundamentalism is "Blowback" due to our covert and direct policies of the past. WAKE UP!!!!! Please!!! Views such as your threaten peace and prosperity the world over!!!!!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:43 | 2028720 VisualCSharp
VisualCSharp's picture

If you're going to bold loosing your liberty at least spell it correctly. Although in some strange way, perhaps loosing makes sense. Also, it's whose, not who's.

Just sayin'...

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 14:14 | 2029425 11b40
11b40's picture

Yeah, that's what I used to think, too.  Now, not so much.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:33 | 2028511 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

who is this "we" - whence come this "they" - what is this "our"?!?!?

Funny how when each and every provocateur{hi Trav-esty!!!yes, I'm talkin to YU} on this site is put on the spot bout the simple question as posed, the silence is deafening.....

from this point hence, the onus is one yousers, losers.....all yur bullshit is DHS/FBI/Langley script-talk till yu can prove otherwise.  Have a nice day moron{s}!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:11 | 2028186 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Boilermaker, do you even know the meaning of the symbol in your avaatar? What is the middle finger?

If you don't , you should study it and understand that sheep like you are led by the nose into some demented vision of manifest destiny.

Manifest Destiny. Look at that. Do you know what a Ship's manifest is? You know nothiing of youself, the language you use or the symbols you toss around or are tossed around by....

and yet you speak so calmly of blood on the streets.

And people wonder why their lives and their nations are in the shitter.



Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:29 | 2028218 Dasa Slooofoot
Dasa Slooofoot's picture

Condoms too big for Indian men.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:16 | 2028287 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

And most embarassingly, I'll bet he cannot sit Indian style either..  Seriously ori one need not have full awareness of every cultural reference in order to have an opinion.  The milieu in whihc we all swim is probably too complex for any of us but you seem to be full of opinions..

Ori, our Indian Tony Robbins, I breathlessly await my astounding business breakthrough..

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:51 | 2028358 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Calm, those symbols don't belong to me. Save your sarcasm for something without meaning.

Symbols came before written language, they are powerful. if it is a cultural reference, then it is the culture of the globe.

The biggest businesses invest much money in the creation and protection of their symbol. Ever wonder why?



Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:18 | 2028449 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Thanks ori, symbology is powerful got it and getting a lecture from you everytime anyone posts anything is tiring.  I am well aware of branding, perhaps you should come down from the mountain and reenter our reality before you become irrelevant. Your posturing yourself as above our realm and the arbiter on symbology and its effects on the reality we work within is again tiring

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:31 | 2028498 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Calm, when you are refreshed (after being tiered out by my posturing) just google occult/esoteric symbols.

You will see that the US was set up as a Fascist state at it's inception. Without a doubt. And it's everywhere in the symbols. 

Just look at the US Senate (like the roman senate) and look for a symbol of a bunch of sticks, around an Axe, tied together with a cord.

Fasci. Check it out.

Then, you can shove your head back in the sand or take fresh stock of your position.

I'm afraid I hardly feel apologetic for calling the truth out, disturbing as many here seem to find it.


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:37 | 2028520 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Yes, Fascist, occult got it..  Head - sand okey dokey..  Air getting thin up there yet?  Perhaps you could refresh us with a small lecture on the Nazi use of the swastiki symbol and where that symbol originated?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:39 | 2028525 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

It's Swastika. Fyi. ;-)


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:45 | 2028544 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

As you probably noted I am a crappy typist..  All those years with a secretary..

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:46 | 2028548 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Waiting for the expose on the SWASTIKA..

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:42 | 2028727 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Originally it had nothing to do with the lines.  It was about the points that the lines connect.  It is a 3x3 grid, nine points.  These represent the six visible planets, the Sun, the Moon and the Earth.  In traditional use in India these points were represented by small piles of rice (the staff of life) and connected by lines of saffron.  Like for weddings. 

The actual lines we focus on?  Why that pattern instead of say a grid of straight lines?

No reason.  It just looks cooler.


I read it all in Smithsonian magazine many years ago so it's gotta be true.  Or you can GoogleWiki it. 

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 12:14 | 2028831 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Interesting Jim. Of course it goes a lot deeper. With counter clockwise and clockwise Swastikas.

It's four L's, what does that tell you? ;-)


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 13:14 | 2029146 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Thanks Jim I was actually waiting for Ori to explain the Indian / Aryan origins but thanks.  That is MN nice for ya..

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:37 | 2028710 SheepHerder
SheepHerder's picture

I'd be interested in learning more about the symbolism. I'm reading Carl Jung's Man and His Symbols right now and am starting to the importance of symbolism.  Is there any other good resources you can point me to?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 12:05 | 2028800 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

SH, you can start

and here

Have fun, it's a heck of a rabbit hole. Caveat Emptor and all 


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 12:31 | 2028890 SheepHerder
SheepHerder's picture

Thank you.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 12:41 | 2028947 SheepHerder
SheepHerder's picture

Ahh that's what I thought from some of your posts.  Are you familiar with Hermetics?  Also was that your blog in the earlier post?  I may try to contact you to continue this discussion.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 12:49 | 2028993 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Yes it is SH and please do. Welcome enlightened and enlightening dialouge, anytime.


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 12:28 | 2028873 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

Texe Marrs and Jordan Maxwell have done a lot of research on the subject and thanks to the poster who put up the Jordan Maxwell youtube -I've heard his voice a million times but never knew what he looked like until now and as is usually the case he doesn't look anything like I envisioned from his voice:

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:13 | 2028633 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

Man, sometimes I like your posts but this one is really out of bounds, maybe because you're under attack here lately, you lost your way. Just stay cool!

Fascist movement started in Italy, around 1919 ( Fasci italiani di combattimento) and don't tell us that symbols of 1920-1945 were already embedded in some much earlier US institutions programs and symbols, please!?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 12:07 | 2028808 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Eally, its' true and thus hard to believe. Fascism began with Italy?

Really, Rome was the first Fascist state as we now recognize the term.

All Roman Symbols are in the DNA of the Third Reich, the US, Italy, Great Britain.... on and on.

Check out the two vids above?


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 12:40 | 2028942 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

I understand your point about symbols, of course all those shitheads want to get some historical background to validate their movements, crosses, swasticas (another kind of cross), triangles, squares, piramides and so on mean nothing unless you put some ideology under it for plebs. Don't tell me that those symbols reveal real ideology.

If you want to check this you will see that Indians are probably fascist too.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 12:48 | 2028991 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

 Don't tell me that those symbols reveal real ideology.


Eally, they do. So much that it blows ones preconceptions to smithreens when you realize the extent to which they are IT.

:-) I swallowed the red pill 9 years ago.


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:11 | 2028188 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Simplistic gibberish by you yet again. Your fear is palpable but at least you're consistent.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:21 | 2028208 captcorona
captcorona's picture

UMMM... Just because you think you are a "Made Man" doesn't mean the little guy wont try >>>


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:17 | 2028637 optimator
optimator's picture

The Iranian Navy shouldn't be holding these exercises in the straits.  They should have taken a few of their destroyer escorts and gone cruising in the Gulf of Mexico for a change of pace.  Imagine the restrait we'd show.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:05 | 2028176 The Deleuzian
The Deleuzian's picture

"Just don't go bustin' my balls"

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:05 | 2028177 The Swedish Chef
The Swedish Chef's picture

They won´t attack the Stennis but a big Persian mouth can help me unwind my Brent longs. I have been patiently waited for this, now let me savour the moment...

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:11 | 2028433 sushi
Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:07 | 2028178 Quintus
Quintus's picture

It's hard to believe that the political and defence organisations in a country like Iran, which is well used to dealing with military posturing (as well as conducting quite a lot of it's own) is quite as easy to manipulate into a potentially devastating conflict as this.

That said, publicly making a threat like this which, should the US refuse to comply, leaves the administration no way out that doesn't make them look weak and stupid seems unimaginably risky from an internal PR perspective.

One can only assume that there is a lot more going on here than meets the (Public) eye.  Perhaps Iran knows that the US has already decided to attack them, so they might as well set up a scenario where it is an American action that ostensibly kicks things off.


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:11 | 2028189 The Swedish Chef
The Swedish Chef's picture

My guess is that it has nothing to do with the US but is a domestic matter. They must feel the Arab Spring is turning Persian. Not that I can see why that should bother them, because as Egypt Tunisia and soon Libya has shown, once Muslim countries get to chose their leaders the turn to the mullahs. 

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:35 | 2028227 ZippyBananaPants
ZippyBananaPants's picture

Chef, is she looking for meatballs in there?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:42 | 2028234 StormShadow
StormShadow's picture

I think she lost her rosary beads

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:53 | 2028259 CPL
CPL's picture



Thank you ladies and gentlemen, be sure to tip your waitress.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:44 | 2028734 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture really had to hand it to her...

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:16 | 2028200 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

"Perhaps Iran knows that the US has already decided to attack them"

Probably more along the line of knowing they have already been attacked, multiple times: Stuxnet, Isfahan, Malard, Yazd, and who knows what else.

A word to the wise: Every time you pay your taxes you are supporting the murder of innocents, the occupation of foreign lands, the erosion of liberty, and much more. There are no innocents, and you will be judged.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:25 | 2028214 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Yes, of course.  Covert operations have been ongoing for some time now.  

I meant that an open, probably arial and possibly (But most likely not) ground attack was on the cards.  It is an election year, after all, and relying on national solidarity in the face of a bogey-man foreign enemy has proved to be a very effective strategy to secure re-election.  Obama has learned well from his predecessor.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:37 | 2028221 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Render unto Caesar... although I agree with you this isn't the issue we're here to discuss and you know that.

You have to define 'attacks' carefully here as most people are only now paying attention. They've been ongoing, I agree there also.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:41 | 2028233 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I still have the feeling that if something happens, than it's the 6th's show, not the 5th.

But it could morph into the yearly manouvers with China in Taiwan's strait - nice, expensive parades to keep some part of the national egos happy...

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:27 | 2028480 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

"full employment" comes in many splendid forms.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:49 | 2028248 Rock the Casbah
Rock the Casbah's picture

whew - thank god I don't pay Iranian taxes. That was a close one....

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:18 | 2028299 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Addressing us from Leavenworth Conrad??

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 12:06 | 2028807 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

I have a flock of specially trained pigeons MJ bought me that relay my thoughts into a terminal in their coop which is logged into a few bouncers where my IRC2ZH bots reside. It's not easy getting all the treats these birds demand from the commissary, but it works.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:37 | 2028521 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Damn straight bro!  No victims now!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:18 | 2028202 Sakka
Sakka's picture

Ahmadinwhatever is one of them, he is one of the acting troup and has his role to play to further the agenda.  Most of what the elite do makes no sense to their own people because benefiting the people is not the goal.  If you want to create war and chaos to usher in the New World Order, then all of the crimianal acts that the global elite conduct in their own country make perfect sense.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:06 | 2028608 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

I don't understand the down arrows on this....after all, there IS an endgame, and it is full spectrum dominance by the global elite.  What is so hard to understand about that?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:50 | 2028250 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

The alternative is that the story is complete BS, which is far more likely.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:08 | 2028179 captcorona
captcorona's picture


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:09 | 2028182 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Persians playing chess while dummy is still playing with a paddle string and ball...

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:14 | 2028195 Sofa King
Sofa King's picture

Chess is a game played where both sides start with an even number of pieces.  In this game one side is starting with a full set while the other is starting with a pawn.  Then again, no one said the Iranians were very smart...somewhat insulting to the Persians of old to call them by that name.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:25 | 2028212 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Terrific example of Western myopia. Thank you for that, it's like you're Bobby Fischer or something. Oh wait, he actually lived the life of an emigre and world citizen which of course means calling the 'homeland' out on what it really is: a farce.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:29 | 2028487 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Didn't play much chess though.


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:19 | 2028300 Fred123
Fred123's picture

rofl....I suggest you put down the koran sonny, its making you sound awfully stupid....but thats the point of it, isn't it?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:09 | 2028183 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

I hope nobody takes advantage of this crisis distraction to burn down the banks, homes of bankers, political offices, or homes of politicians. That arson is Commiefornia and the White Devil of Washington could be just the tip of the iceberg.

Thank god so many white guilt sufferers proved they're not racist and allowed a usurper to take office and sign the indefinite detention of Americans without trial bill. Good job Democrat-Socialists; you must be so proud of your Führer.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:16 | 2028199 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

I wish you hadn't used the "D" word but since you did you know it's just another partial truth. Division will be all too easy, just read what the Greeks are blaming their problems on.

'Snot my fault'

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:25 | 2028213 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Well, let there not be any confusion:

Conrad Murray doth here declare his deep hate for all who claim allegiance to either wing of The Party. Statists of either stripe should be slaughtered.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:35 | 2028226 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

You mean, of course, thoroughly discredited and tossed into the dustbin of irrelevance. Hopefully the message is heard loud & clear beginning tonight.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 12:52 | 2029018 gangland
gangland's picture

no i mean slaughtered, quartered and each part buried deep in the far corners of the globe, then we nuke dc, brussels, lower manhattan and the shitty, from orbit.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:24 | 2028210 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture


here's a list of the Senators that voted against the NDAA:

13 Courageous Votes[MISH]

Nay ID Crapo, Michael [R]
Nay ID Risch, James [R]
Nay IL Durbin, Richard [D]
Nay IA Harkin, Thomas [D]
Nay KY Paul, Rand [R]
Nay MD Cardin, Benjamin [D]
Nay MN Franken, Al [D]
Nay OK Coburn, Thomas [R]
Nay OR Merkley, Jeff [D]
Nay OR Wyden, Ron [D]
Nay SC DeMint, Jim [R]
Nay UT Lee, Mike [R]
Nay VT Sanders, Bernard [I]

Step outside the Blue/Red, Us/Them, Good/Bad, Black/White....

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:28 | 2028215 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

And here is the contact information(phone numbers, office addresses, and websites) of all the Senate traitors who did vote for it(murderous lunatics should not view/print/memorize/utilize):

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:10 | 2028281 floridasandy
floridasandy's picture

if i lived in their state, i would vote for any one of them, even sanders, because at least they have some respect for the people who pay their salaries.

what the heck happened to florida?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:39 | 2028340 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

When the outcome of the vote is a foregone conclusion, I'm not so sure how courageous the vote actually is.  Courage would have been standing on a soapbox yelling at the top of their voices over just how horrific the legislation is/was.  Perhaps some of these senators did and the media didn't cover it, but I don't recall.  Al Franken had some sort of press release... he sounded more apologetic than he did offended.  I'm guessing Rand had some things to say... maybe just a media blackout.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:03 | 2028594 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

I saw Rand railing loudly on this for blackout as usual.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:49 | 2028751 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Yeah... probably... but I'm guessing he was one of the few "courageous" senators who voted against the bill to actually speak clearly, loudly and often about the travesty.  Can't expect our senators to upset the apple cart.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:33 | 2028222 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Firebombings seem to be the Obama supporters chickenshit thing to do. 


They firebombed Palin's church, the historic Texas governor's mansion, and 2 were caught/convicted trying to firebomb the GOP delegates at the convention in MN. They even mixed oil with the gas to make crude napalm so it couldn't be wiped off or put out.  Just like the good old sixties again with FBFFTUS (first best friend forever of the US) commie, Bill Ayers, who is newly retired from teaching and once again leading the Alinsky parade.


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:33 | 2028332 laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

obama's fingerprints are all over ows

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 12:18 | 2028847 VisualCSharp
VisualCSharp's picture

Care to elaborate on that claim?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 21:14 | 2031092 laosuwan
Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:14 | 2028194 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

I remember being a kid, and thinking escalators were fun.

I don't feel that way anymore. [sigh]

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:47 | 2028744 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Maybe if you rode them naked.  Change of pace.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:15 | 2028197 The Axe
The Axe's picture

Another risk on trade...all risk....If the gulf goes hot...why would equities go up?  Oil yes  Gold yes... but all equities?  sorry...something else is pushing the risk on trade... Oil going to 140....should put a huge wet shit turd on equities.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:39 | 2028230 bugfixx
bugfixx's picture

It's the first trading day of the month, so the PPT is marking up damaged merchandise in advance of the dumb money coming in from 401k contributions.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:16 | 2028198 Martin Silenus
Martin Silenus's picture

Still of the opinion that any military move will be made by Israel first.  Now, whether that unspools into an all-out regional conflict remains to be seen.  Probably.  Agree with Q: there's a lot more going on here than the public is privy to.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:19 | 2028205 gwar5
gwar5's picture

No worries, stick to Mandarin. There's no way we'll be speaking Farsi anytime soon.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:21 | 2028209 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

5th Navy
Straits of Hormuz
which left the area because of Iranian naval exercises

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:27 | 2028216 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

The Nobel Peace Prize winner does it again.

He never follows through with his promises.  Now the likelihood of another war, where the young and innocent on both sides of the fence are murdered and more excuses to take away more liberty and trample the Bill of Rights forever into the dust of the streets are upon us.

I am an old man and had a mostly good life.  My time is done, but I fear for my children and all the young of this world.

Iran always maintained it was going nuclear for electricity.   Even if they lied, with Israel and Pakistan and other nations in possession of nukes, it is not unlikely they feel defenseless with out one.

In any case, no one wins in war.  That has long been proved.  In the end, if we see an end, it will always end up at the bargaining table like the Japanese did on the deck of the US battleship at the end of hostilities.

Meanwhile, it is the peons of this world, you and I, who pay through lost loved ones, dealing with the aftereffects and so on.

Most people denounce Christ, but one thing he stood for was loving God and your neighbor.  What we see in the world today is anything but.  I don't agree with everything the 66 books in the bible say and I am not religious, but it is uncanny how Christ would say that during times like this mens hearts would grow cold.

That is the world today.....Cold Hearts

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:08 | 2028276 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Unfortunately, someone does always win in war. Wouldn't have them otherwise. And you can bank on that.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:54 | 2028370 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Sadly, what they "win" isn't always worth the blood and treasure sacrificed to do so.

Look up pyrrhic in the dictionary.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:59 | 2028753 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Don't insult me.


Edit: [ Okay, do so! I almost forgot that this is Fight Club! Batter away, mother fucker!]. Continue... or not.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 12:09 | 2028814 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

I re-read your comment, and completely agree with you. Thanks.


But nothing is worth the blood--that's the point. War is a racket (thanks, Mr. Butler. Semper Fi!).

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:20 | 2028659 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

But no.  America didn't WIN in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. Winning battles don't mean jack shit if the end result is not in your favor. All you are left with is your dead and wounded and the co$t.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:53 | 2028748 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

It seems that some got it, and others didn't. Oh well.


Even when the "winners" win, we lose. Maybe I should make myself clearer, but I try to address a more aware audience; sometimes, I'm brought back down to Earth.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:23 | 2028308 Rollerball
Rollerball's picture

It's a pump. 

Wear it outside a Kevlar Faraday cage, and Nikonar:
Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:34 | 2028223 Korbin Dallas
Korbin Dallas's picture

Hormuz is a diversions: watch Syria, Lebanon, and Israel for Iran's other glove.


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:37 | 2028229 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Apparently Achmedisajerk and the other shitheads in Iran are unaware of the international status of the straits let alone the concept of not pissing people off who can obliterate you.  Some of the pantywaist bedwetting types that lurk around here outght to know better as well.  But with a pantywaist bedwetting type in the White House my bet is that the pantywaist bedwetters prevail.  Either way oil looks like a money maker to me so I can't lose.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:05 | 2028270 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Good luck collecting money on the oil trade if they don't get their war with the Persians.  Otherwise, they're going to blame "speculators" like you.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:58 | 2028388 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Tell it to Israel.

Oil skyrockets: we all lose (except the House of Saud, of course).

Now pull your head out of your ass and start thinking with your big head for a change, chief.


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:51 | 2028762 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

There are no international waters in the Strait.  Iran owns it (with Oman and the UAE but why quibble).  The only codification of the traditional, informal right of transit is in the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea...which the US hasn't ratified.

Guess you'll have to go with obliteration then. 

How much, exactly, would the US obliterate if all Iran did was sink the Stennis?  Please keep your answers to less than a paragraph.  Quantify the number of targets, and specify the political/strategic objectives.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:43 | 2028236 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

This whole thing is starting to look more like complete bullshit everyday. I feeling someone is scripting this somewhere, because it sound's like a bad B-movie.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:05 | 2028411 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

"Life is the crumbiest book I ever read.

There isn't a hook.

Just a lot of cheap shots.

Pictures to shock.

And characters an amateur would never dream up."

- Bad Religion - Stranger then Fiction


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 08:59 | 2028265 financial apoca...
financial apocalyptic contagion's picture

well I'm reaching my home An n Arbor on Friday afternoon, hopefully there is no International ruckus before that. Then all i care abt is my kush and my gin . I'l keep ZH on my laptop, the MSM on my tv and let the good times roll hopefully with some fireworks.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:05 | 2028271 Zap Brannigan
Zap Brannigan's picture

Strait of Hormuz. Singular.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:16 | 2028293 Catullus
Catullus's picture

It's also the John C. Stennis.  It's the name of a ship.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:31 | 2028328 laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

all you ZH military buffs out there, I am wondering if anyone can tell me, "what could an aircraft carrier possibly do to defend itself in the narrow strait if iran threw everything it had at it?" wouldnt it be a sitting duck? Imagine sinking all those planes and thousands of crew? do you not think the nutcase ahmidiniwhatever could resist himself and not go for it?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:01 | 2028397 ItsDanger
ItsDanger's picture

Im no military buff but this argument could made about anything.  Im sure Iran's masters would not be pleased.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:32 | 2028505 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

that be why they transit the SoH, lotta' pucker factor goin' on during the transit.  Then stand off.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:57 | 2028580 besnook
besnook's picture

navies are obsolete in modern warfare. they don't sink as easily as they used to but they cannot defend themselves as easily either.


besides, all the iranians have to do is cripple a carrier and the entire usa mission is jeopardized since they still rely on a carrier centered strategy.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 05:16 | 2032157 laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

yeah, it seems to me that the ships are just sitting ducks because unless they attack iran first iran gets to pick and choose when and if to strike. and if iran throws torpedoes, missiles, shelling from the mainland, speedboat attacks and then aircraft at it, more or less at the same time, what could a lumbering ship wthe size of a small town and with nowhere to hide do?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:24 | 2028674 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

aircraft carriers are dinosaurs unless you are fighting Grenada.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 22:24 | 2031318 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

Probaly give the 'go' order to the aircraft it launched before entering the strait.    Missiles away....

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 05:08 | 2032150 laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

then where will the planes land afterwards? The planes cannot stay up the time it takes to cruise the strait, either.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:35 | 2034136 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

The fifth fleet is based in Bahrain.   Maybe they'd be accomodating.   If not, we do have the ability to line up refueling aircraft before sending the carrier through.   Prior planning prevents poor performance.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:34 | 2028333 orved
orved's picture

ps Just walked past Iran Air office on Piccadilly in London, which looks like it is closing asap. Half the desks have gone compared to last week, and only one sad looking woman staffing the place.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 09:55 | 2028372 ItsDanger
ItsDanger's picture

Iran is all talk.  They dont have the military to back it up.  This is just about talking oil prices up.  Its irrelevant what they have to say about anything, it all comes down to Russia & China anyways.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:04 | 2028409 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

All Iran have to do is stop the export of oil. Then, you'll see price increases in a flash.

Of course, in the upside-down world of US propaganda, that will be served to the gullible, corporate-media watching public as an act of war.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 13:08 | 2029117 ItsDanger
ItsDanger's picture

Ask yourself why they dont do it then.  It would hurt them more than anyone else.  Big mistake from a business standpoint.  You never want your customers to find alternatives.  Venezuela doesnt do it either.  Just a blatant bluff.  I guarantee most of this talk is just to make more money.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:10 | 2028430 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Obama agrees to more sanctions against Iran which does nothing for this country, trashes the constitution by allowing you and I to be "in detention" without commiting any crime. And will ask Congress for another Trillion dollars to "pay our bills on time". And we are up 200 pts. on the DOW>

Gotta luv these markets.

What a country.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:25 | 2028472 forrestdweller
forrestdweller's picture

the iranian navy and other iranian forces will be destroyed in a matter of hours when they attack the US navy.


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:27 | 2028479 Lazane
Lazane's picture

The TPTB table has already been set, and while not every piece of ware is in place or every napkin without a crease, the 1st course of this dinner party has been served, with multiple courses to follow in the ensuing weeks and months. 

The question to ask is what amount of spice will it take to provoke the dinner guest into choking his food, spilling his wine, and getting up form the table?


The capacity of the human mind to resist the intrusion of information is infinite


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:27 | 2028482 marcusfenix
marcusfenix's picture

sanctions are the first step to an attack, we saw this very same script play out against Saddam's Iraq. It's just to bad we still have so many who believe the only way to express their "patriotism" is through calling for violence against yet another country who's only threat to the US is fables, exaggerations and lies being pumped out by the corporate media. if you step back and look at the difference between Iran and the US in terms of economy, military, resources, population, technology, infrastructure ect, ect, one can quickly and safely come the the conclusion that we have no logical, legitimate reason to fear the Islamic Republic of Iran. 

yet a Admiral from Iran's Navy (which is, in fact, little more than a coast guard) threatens to attack one of our carriers in the event we park it in their back yard (wonder how we would feel if China put navy warships in say, the gulf of Mexico?) and predictably the chest thumpers start hollowing from some action all the while completely ignoring the long standing fundamental hypocrisies and contractions of  US foreign policy.

even better still is the "bedwetter" label applied to anybody who opposes military action, which makes absolutely no sense, as Admiral Mullen himself refused to advance plans for an attack on Iran during the Bush years and the head of MOSSAD has stated that Iran, even a nuclear armed one presents no threat to Israel. so are these two men bedwetters? who are the cowards here, those who stand up and say I do not want war because I do not fear those people across the ocean, or those who would rant and yell for military action from behind the safety of their keyboards?

the sad part is the war will happen, so it is scripted, so it shall be done regardless of what we the people think. our opinions and rants might matter to each-other out here in the blogosphere, but the PTB's could give a shit less what any of us think. and that is the real tragedy of the divide and conquer strategy being employed against us, we fight amongst ourselves instead of uniting as Americans to preserve what little of our freedoms remain. it the oldest game in the book, they keep running it and it just keeps working.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:55 | 2028574 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

It is interesting how the war propaganda just happens to be during the run up and the very day of the Iowa caucuses....hmmm...

The meme:  "See?  Ron Paul's foreign policy is just crazy...look what Iran is doing."

I cannot believe the headlines are a coincidence.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:55 | 2028771 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.

Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:58 | 2028779 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Of course everyone here at ZH knows that Paul has raised more from serving military than all other Republican candidates combined, and more than Obama. 

The military itself knows the game, the stakes, and who is right.

Bedwetters.  That ashy taste?  That's the taste of shame.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 10:33 | 2028512 forrestdweller
forrestdweller's picture

Men of good fortune
often cause empires to fall
While men of poor beginnings
often can't do anything at all

The rich son waits for his father to die
the poor just drink and cry
And me, I just don't care at all

Men of good fortune
very often can't do a thing
While men of poor beginnings
often can do anything

At heart they try to act like a man
handle things the best way they can
They have no rich, daddy to fall back on

Men of good fortune
often cause empires to fall
While men of poor beginnings
often can't do anything at all

It takes money to make money they say
look at the Fords, but didn't they start that way
Anyway, it makes no difference to me

Men of good fortune
often wish that they could die
While men of poor beginnings
want what they have and to get it they'll die

All those great things that live has to give
they wanna have money and live
But me, I just don't care at all

Men of good fortune
men of poor beginnings
Men of good fortune
men of poor beginnings
Men of good fortune
men of poor beginnings
Men of good fortune
men of poor beginnings

lou reed. men of good fortune.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:18 | 2028651 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

We are manifestly more stupid than the folks in 1215 - they, at least, were able to create the Magna Carta which today, 800 years later, most Americans would

think is some sort of champaigne...

The best strategy for the Iranian issue would be to do, NOTHING - of course the CIA, State Department and our military have never been good at doing, NOTHING...

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:22 | 2028665 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Challenge the U.S.A....?

They must be terrorist.......

Like the U.S.A.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:29 | 2028686 optimator
optimator's picture

Iran should sail a few of anything in the Gulf of Mexico, just for laughs.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 13:32 | 2029218 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

They already did that on our east coast....subs and all...

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 11:55 | 2028772 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Question for the class, clipped from above in the thread:

How much, exactly, would the US obliterate if all Iran did was sink or damage the Stennis or another US combat ship?  Please keep your answers to less than a paragraph.  Quantify the number of targets, and specify the political/strategic objectives the US would pursue.

Inexact analogy: How much did the US obliterate when Iraq damaged the USS Stark during the Tanker War in the Gulf (hint: nada)?

Funny how context matters...Iran may think it has a strategic winner here. 


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 12:03 | 2028793 optimator
optimator's picture

If Iran shot up one of our intel. ships, killing over 40 of our sailors,  like the Liberty, what would the U.S. do.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 13:30 | 2029209 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

It's actually very simple...we have the right to navigate international waters.  Iran has the right to decide to attack us or not, in international waters.  We then have the right to decide if we wish to defend ourselves, or not.  So how does exercising our right to navigate international waters translate into us starting a war?  If we are attacked and choose to defend ourselves, does that mean we started a war?  Tthe attacking party is the one guilty of starting the conflict.  Some of you America haters are just fucking stooopid!   You have to find a reason to justify your assertion that America wants war.  America wants peace, but sometimes maintaining the peace comes at a price.  If Iran chooses to attack us, I hope we use smart weapons to resolve the problems. The Iranian ppulation should not be held at fault for the sins of the nut jobs who control the country.  A nice big smart bomb on the Ayatollah's head and Achmed-nut-job would probably get some respect pretty quick.  

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 15:51 | 2029990 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Iran should just stop hitting itself.

You certainly have the "Pax Americana" part right.

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