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Iran Turns Embargo Tables: To Pass Law Halting All Crude Exports To Europe

Tyler Durden's picture





 

In what is likely a long overdue move, Iran has finally decided to give Europe a harsh lesson in game theory. Instead of letting Euro-area politicians score brownie points at its expense by threatening to halt imports and cut off the Iranian economy, the Iranian government will instead propose a bill calling for an immediate halt to oil deliveries to Europe. The move, with most reports citing the Iranian news agency Mehr, has come about in response to the EU agreement to impose sanctions against Iran, which were announced earlier this week. And why not? After all if Europe is indeed serious, sooner or later Iran will be cut off but in the meantime experience significant policy uncertainty, which is precisely what the flipflops on the ground need. The one thing that Europe, however is forgetting, is that all that whopping 0.8 Mb/d in imports will simply find a new buyer.Quickly.

So with China, India and Russia already having bilateral agreements with Iran in place, we are confident that said buyer will have a contract signed, sealed and delivered within an hour of the proposed bill's passage. Furthermore, as SocGen speculated, the fact that Europe will be even more bottlenecked in its crude supplies (good luck Saudi Arabia with that imaginary excess capacity), and which just may force the IEA to release some more of that strategic petroleum reserve (and thus give JPM some more free money on the replenishment arbitrage) will send Brent to $125-150 - something which Iran will be delighted by. That is of course unless some "experts" discover that Iran may or may not have a complete arsenal of shark with fricking nuclear warheads attached to their heads (despite what Paneta has already said) which gives the US the green light for a full blown incursion, which in turn will send oil over $200, and the world economy into a global coordinated re-depression.

From Spiegel:

"If this bill is passed, the government will be forced to stop selling oil to Europe before the actual implementation of their sanctions," said Emad Hosseini, spokesman for the Iranian parliament's energy commission, reportedly said. The bill is set to become law on Sunday.

 

The EU sanctions allow for oil deliveries from Iran until July 1. Any pre-empting of this timescale by Tehran could prove problematic for countries like Italy, Greece and Spain, who would need to urgently find new suppliers.

 

China, meanwhile, a major importer of Iranian oil, has also criticized the EU sanctions. The Xinhua news agency quoted the Chinese Foreign Ministry on Thursday as saying: "To blindly pressure and impose sanctions on Iran are not constructive approaches."

 

Many members of the EU are now heavily dependent on Iranian oil. Some 500,000 barrels arrive in Europe every day from Iran, with southern European countries consuming most of it. Greece is the most exposed, receiving a third of all its oil imports from Iran, but Italy too depends on Iran for 13 percent of its oil needs. If this source were to dry up abruptly, the economic conditions in the two struggling countries could become even worse.

 

Already on Wednesday, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) warned of the economic consequences of the EU's planned embargo. Stopping deliveries from the world's fifth largest producer could drive up the price of oil by 20 to 30 percent.

Perhaps instead of doing its best at crippling the world energy markets, and crushing the global economy, Europe should stick to bailing itself out, and other activities in which it has extensive experience.

 


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Fri, 01/27/2012 - 12:55 | Link to Comment gravedestruction
gravedestruction's picture

Min Max principle ZHez...

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 12:58 | Link to Comment jcia
jcia's picture

I thought I would never say this... but I am sorta proud of Iran. This constant political bullying has gone full retard. Good job on fucking them first.

cheers

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:04 | Link to Comment Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

How dare those brown people stand up for themselves.  We are powerful people in the West and we demand that you consider our needs and our fake morals above all others..

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:17 | Link to Comment pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

:)

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:26 | Link to Comment Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Here is the beef I have with the idea that an embargo is going to hurt Europe at all.

First, the world is awash in oil due to the fact that the futures market is being manipulated by Bernanke et al. This is causing oil producers to turn on the taps full bore even when no demand exists. The oil lost to Europe will easily be picked up by stockpiles elsewhere. Europe has nothing to fear.

Second, by having inflated oil prices this helped Iran's thuggish government stay in power. Stopping the European exports and forcing them to barter for oil will actually drive down the prices India, Russian and China will pay for oil through true supply and demand. Who will lose, IRAN.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:40 | Link to Comment wanklord
wanklord's picture

False flag operations are covert operations conducted by governments, corporations, or other organizations, which are designed to deceive the public in such a way that the operations appear as if they are being carried out by other entities. The name is derived from the military concept of flying false colors; that is, flying the flag of a country other than one’s own. False flag operations are not limited to war and counter-insurgency operations, and have been used in peace-time.

Expose the wicked intentions the Zionist warmongers and the Soetoro administration have in mind of igniting a war in the Persian Gulf. The phrase these misanthropes hate most nowadays is called FALSE FLAG since ordinary people are becoming aware of its meaning. Israeli submarines deployed in the Sea of Oman will sink an American warship that happens to be navigating close to the Strait of Hormuz – an attack to subsequently be blamed on Iran. Most likely one of these IDF/Navy submarines (Type 800 Dolphin class) is already operating in the Sea of Oman:

INS Dolphin

INS Livyathan

INS Tekumah

Watch this video clip titled “USS Enterprise False Flag!! ”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufdw21ltc-8

and that’s exactly what Israel demanded to the Obama administration: an old US Navy warship (in this case the USS Enterprise, pretty soon to be decommissioned) sent to the Persian Gulf.

Besides that, the following documentary produced by Univision titled "Submarino Israelí en operación secreta" (Israeli Submarine on a secret assignment) is targeting the Spanish-speaking masses living in the United States. This video clearly illustrates Israel's intentions of provoking an incident in the Sea of Oman in order to justify an American assault against the Islamic Republic.

Link: http://noticias.univision.com/aqui-y-ahora/videos/video/2012-01-17/subma...

Another plausible way by which Barry & Associates (including the Zionist warmongers) could justify a war against the Islamic Republic of Iran is by staging another FALSE FLAG ATTACK on continental United States: a controlled nuclear explosion (dirty bomb) targeting a major urban concentration that may kill dozens of thousands of civilians. This operation will be carried out by the CIA in partnership with Israel’s Mossad and British MI6 to subsequently be blamed on elements of Iran’s IRGC.

Educate the masses about the meaning of FALSE FLAG operations.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:02 | Link to Comment Instant Wealth
Instant Wealth's picture

Israeli sailors in German submarines sinking American warships.

Wow ...

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:11 | Link to Comment CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Might be, but probably not using a carrier. Too valuable to lose via a FF. A lesser vessel - frigate, destroyer - would serve as well.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:17 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

enterprise is due for decommission.  it is old and obsolete...  but decommission of a nuclear carrier is expensive.   hmm...  maybe if we....

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:36 | Link to Comment Money 4 Nothing
Money 4 Nothing's picture

...under false pretenses of war? Great idea! I forgot all about that Pearl Harbor deal. Done!

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:14 | Link to Comment Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

Israeli sailors in German submarines sinking American warships.

And all financed by . . . . . . well, you know. That bunch.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:38 | Link to Comment frostfan
frostfan's picture

Did I miss something?  Has this already happened?  Aside from the delusional minds/commenters at ZH?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:24 | Link to Comment Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

There are a few countries that posses Submarines that can get close enough to a US fleet to do damage and get away undetected, Iran is NOT 1 of those countries

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:19 | Link to Comment Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

An Exocet missile, fired from beyond the visible horizon can easily sink a carrier. Automated point defense systems aside, it only takes ONE missile to sink a carrier. Well, gee, what do you know, Iran is a country with Exocet technology. Hmmm. My father always said there is more than one way to skin a cat. It does not have to be a sub, they just sink a damn vessel, hell just fire at one and damage it...USS Stark anyone?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:26 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

it only takes ONE missile to sink a carrier.

Bullfucking shit.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:14 | Link to Comment Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

Really? Oh, pray tell, regale us with your vast naval wisdom, Admiral. 2 Excocets ripped the SHIT out of a frigate - the USS Stark. One Exocet, with a 325 pound warhead ripped a ten-by-fifteen-foot hole in the warship's steel hull on the port side before ripping through the crew's quarters. The resulting fire rushed upward into the vessel's combat information center, disabling the electrical systems. The second missile plowed into the frigate's superstructure.

Aircraft carriers have an ARMORED magazine and an ARMORED fuel store. The rest of it is about as armored as your typical cruise liner. the hull thickness is only enough to maintain structural integrity. You obviously forget or DID NOT KNOW what one missile did to the USS Forrestal. and that was an ACCIDENT.

One well placed missile will end a carrier.

 

I see your bullfucking shit and raise you FACTS.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:28 | Link to Comment V in PA
V in PA's picture

In today's world, FACTS don't mean bullfucking shit. Just look at the market.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:40 | Link to Comment Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

+1

I am talking real world. Not skittle shitting unicorn, rainbows, and hopium fueled markets.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:35 | Link to Comment Rossalgondamer
Rossalgondamer's picture

Didnt you mean, "One well-placed McCain..."?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:50 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

Stark didn't sink. Idiot

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:55 | Link to Comment Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

No it did not. It was also hit high on the port side. I stated implicitly, idiot, well placed. Learn to read in public school did we? Simple things like language escape you today?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 21:05 | Link to Comment sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

You obviously don't know how aircraft carriers are built these days. You'd need a missile big enough to split the carrier in two in order to sink it. Don't forget the carrier also has anti-missile defenses. There are a dozen support ships with Phalanx and other technologies to protec tthe carrier. 

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 21:21 | Link to Comment UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Hmm.  Seems I remember the same said about a certain White Star ship....

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 00:42 | Link to Comment cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

That was 1912. GEEZ!!

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:12 | Link to Comment earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

Ref: #1__ Israeli Port__#2 Jordanian Port__ #3 Iranian Port

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eilat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqaba

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abadan_Iran

Ps. ~ 450k bpd - making-up ~ 18% -/-of Iranian oil exports goes to Europe

 

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:47 | Link to Comment JoBob
JoBob's picture

There are a few countries that posses Submarines that can get close enough to a US fleet to do damage and get away undetected, Iran is NOT 1 of those countries.

 

Neither is Israel.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 20:56 | Link to Comment Money 4 Nothing
Money 4 Nothing's picture

Oh.. But China does.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:17 | Link to Comment Laddie
Laddie's picture

The poster George Washington did a great series on this topic. Think back to the Lavon Affair and the assault on the USS Liberty, both were designed to be blamed on Egypt.

Thinking to sway US opinion.

Both parties, Democrat and Republican are firmly in the grasp of the LOBBY. Save for Ron Paul there isn't anyone willing to stop this. They've all sold out.

 

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 16:44 | Link to Comment The Heart
The Heart's picture

Brother Wank,

You have hit the nail on the head here. Search the term Israel False Flag and see what comes up. Keep searching over and over as more and more is written about these unholy evil zionist things that cause the false flag events for the globalist population reductionist banksters. Let the zionist babalonians know we know how they operate and so does EVERYONE ELSE!

Turn off the zio-media propaganda machine today. Americas greatest enemy is the lame stream media that daily bombards the nation with evil deceitful lies and dis/mis-information that misleads the people like leading the lemmings off the cliff of ignorance. If fox news told everyone to jump off the cliff, they are so dumbed down now, they probably would. This is the harshest evil war that has ever been declared against the American people and we are losing it. Most of the nation gets it's news from fox and if they were to tell the truth for a week, we could turn around almost every evil in the world, starting with the apartheid zionist govt of isreal and ZOG here in the usa.

ATTENTION: READ THIS ABOVE FROM WANKLORD AGAIN AND ADVERTISE IT, SHARE IT, POST IT, PASS IT, RE-PASTE IT, AND SPREAD THIS LIGHT ABOVE FAR AND WIDE. THEN SEARCH IT. THIS IS THE REAL DEAL AND THE WORLD NEEDS TO KNOW THAT WE ALL KNOW!

Good works wank!!

 

***

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:37 | Link to Comment Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Iran has been mis-treating its oil for years, so America must liberate it.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:54 | Link to Comment Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

It's official.. We need to free the shit out of them!

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:55 | Link to Comment Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

By "them", do you mean barrels?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:40 | Link to Comment flattrader
flattrader's picture

Oddly, price of crude doesn't seem to give a damn.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:14 | Link to Comment Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

Oddly the price of crude is being manipulated on false assurances that Saudi Arabia can with their VAST oil reserves (lie) make up for any short falls. Gee, a manipulated commodity, novel idea that.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:50 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I do not want Iran, let alone another country, to acquire nuclear weaponry. Nuclear weaponry exponentionally raises the human misery and environmental consequences of warfare in a world where political and military leaders are no more rational or sane than most others, and they may succumb to bouts of being less so in high pressure/stress situations.

HOWEVER, I also do not support preemptive military "strikes" on any nation (if there was a certainty that a nation was going to act aggressively towards another, a military stike to prevent such activity would not be preemptive, but responding to die that were already cast), because 'surgical strike' is a mere slogan, devoid of reality, that military hawks devise to sell their actions as more palatable options to the public, given the snake oil salesmen that they and the politicians enabling them are.

Aside from the Madison Avenue marketing of killing humans for whatever 'in the name of,' even assuming that preemptive military strikes don't result in heavy human casualties, they inevitably raise the risk of follow-on events that cascade out of control, that even IBM's Watson can't accurately predict.

I am neither a hawk nor a dove.

I am flummoxed and vexed.

*Getting back to the core point, if Iran refuses to ship oil to any country, continent or company, isn't that entirely their right? Certainly this can't be framed as a provocative gesture used by politicians to try and further justify/twist the case that this is an act of military escalation, especially at a time when the west has launched a full-on assualt on Iran's central bank and economy, which we would characterize as full warfare if done to us.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:55 | Link to Comment prains
prains's picture

I am flummoxed and vexed.

 

so is the pentagon but for a different reason, they know they don't have military capacity to fight this one without having to push all their chips into the pot....china....russia...etc

and they might come out the other end in orange jumpsuits

 

three words.....hubris, operation barbarossa.........(history tends to repeat itself) ok eight words

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:41 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

and they might come out the other end in orange jumpsuits

...or turned to crispy critters from a million degree fireball over DC.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:12 | Link to Comment Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

There is more than enough military capacity in the region. France and the UK have thrown their hats in the ring, as it was French and British naval vessels that escorted the USS Abraham Lincoln through the Strait of Hormuz. French and British battle groups, as well as other NATO assets are being ramped up as we speak, just in case.

 

Two words: false flag

A false flag event against any allied power at this time would ostensibly remove political and economic pressures from the US, since they will not have "fired a shot in anger" but are instead "retaliating for an act of war committed against us or an ally". This would put China and Russia on a delicate balance point. Why? If they back an "aggressor state" against those who are seeking to quickly and for the "common good" resolve the military issue, they will be setting themselves up for an immediate counter stroke. This is not chess, it is not checkers, hell, it is not even poker. This is a straight up Russian slap fight. Last drunken Cossack standing wins.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:03 | Link to Comment Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

Operation Barbarossa was pre-emptive, the Bolsheviks were preparing to invade Western Europe but Hitler stroke first.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:37 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Huh?

That's certainly a new one on me! 

Not that I would put such desires beyond the uber-monster who was Stalin, but seriously, WTF?  Do you have ANY factual references to back up such a wild assertion?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:57 | Link to Comment mc225
mc225's picture

There was a 'Viktor Suvorov' who was claiming this. Also, Paul Carell wrote that the KGB archives which were made public in 1989 indicated this. A lot of people think Carell is a hack; but maybe he was correct about the KGB archives. In the actual campaign, (if memory serves) there were a disproportionate number of T-34 and KV tanks encountered by the Axis on the Southern front, which might indicate that the Soviets had been massing their best armor for a pre-emptive strike on the Romanian oilfields.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 21:26 | Link to Comment UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Or it could be that that was the closest place to where they were built.

Seems to me they didn't trust anyone, especially someone with a funny mustache and a penchant for killing Slavs, and moved their factories south and east....

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 04:26 | Link to Comment Element
Element's picture

Oh come on!  It is hardly surprising the Soviets deployed lots of tanks considering the entire world had just watch aghast as Blitzkrieg became a household term of common conversation, minutes beforehand.

What were they supposed to do, just pretend a massive super-slick highly-mobile and very aggressive and well as horrendously-effective battle hardened-armoured divisions without compare were sitting right next door?

What would you have done?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:42 | Link to Comment Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

 

 

Suvorov wrote many books about the outbreak of the Nazi-Soviet War in 1941 and circumstances that led to it. The first such work was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icebreaker_(Suvorov) with many others to follow. Suvorov's provocative idea is that Joseph Stalin originally planned to use Nazi Germany as a proxy (the "Icebreaker") against the West. For this reason Stalin provided material and political support to Adolf Hitler, while at the same time preparing his Red Army for an offensive against Nazi Germany and further against all of Western Europe. Suvorov argued that Hitler had no choice but to direct a unexpected preemptive strike at the Soviet Union, what we know today as Operation Barbarossa. In the end, Stalin was able to achieve some of his objectives by establishing Communist regimes in Eastern Europe and Asia. However this victory according to Suvorov was unsatisfying to Stalin, as he intended to bring Soviet domination to the whole continent of Europe.

 

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Suvorov   

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 21:10 | Link to Comment Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Of course he has no facts to back it up. Stalin was so stunned whe Barbarosa was kicked off by the Nazis that he went into hiding for about a week. Stalin thought that he would be executed by his comrades for missing all the warnings that had come from Churchill about an impending Nazi invasion. Instead, his staff of comrades were scared shitless and looked to Stalin for leadership.

Read 'The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich'... written by William Shirer. The book covers the period 1933-1945. Shirer was a foreign correspondent stationed in Berlin for much of the period and attended may Nazi gatherings and reported on them in real time. He also chronicled the meetings between the Nazi high staff and leaders of various countries that would become allies or enemies later on.

On the day that operation Barbarosa kicked off, Russian supply trains loaded with commodities were passing German troops heading into Russia. Do you think Stalin would have been honoring trade agreements if he knew he was going to be attacked?

To claim that Stalin was planning an attack on Nazi Germany is pure bull shit. Read your history, moron.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 21:36 | Link to Comment Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

You rely on a book endorsed by the New York Times for your history? Take a deep breath. Ok, Stalin was preparing to attack so of course he was surprised that the Germans attacked first. The fact that you cite Shirer reveals you're clueless.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:25 | Link to Comment earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

It will be the end-of-all, regarding the "Islam World" -  respect for western culture will disintegrate overnight if the US joins in the battle - the Arab spring in all its fury will turn toward their Muslim brethren as comrades in arms - all because of, "God's Chosen [Peaceful/ Obliging Dirty Dozen] Tribes"!

jmo

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 20:29 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Sadly, this is how the story/debate is framed, with a totally incorrect premise, and we just move on from there...

Iran is aiming to produce civilian-use nuclear stuff, you know, like electricity.  Seems that this idea was firmly planted in their heads way back in the 1950s but the US!  And, really, it's perfectly rational that they'd want to not use precious oil up and keep it for producing revenues (via export): of course, there's really NOTHING rational about nuclear shit anyway... (only sets things up for some massive failure, and ALL systems will eventually fail).

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 04:17 | Link to Comment Element
Element's picture

And let's not forget that Iran is an extraordinarily seismically active region.

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 17:02 | Link to Comment The Heart
The Heart's picture

Hello Element,

Always good to receive your Light brother.

Yes, can you say HAARP is NOT used as a lethal clandestine weapon of mass destruction against Iran by the babylonians and ZOG? (zionist owned govt)

What is the Highest priority? The Sun. Next, war to distract the nations from the bankster takeover and destruction of the old world and to kill off billions of breathers and useless eaters. Start a new monetary system and crawl out of the bunker/rat holes a hundred years later to claim what is left of a world that will no longer support any life at all.

An illusionist says, watch my hand up here, as he pick-pockets you with his other hand down there.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:21 | Link to Comment BlackVoid
BlackVoid's picture

Check your facts. Global oil exports have been falling for more than 5 years now.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:09 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

@ Vampy

First you almost lost me at "...when no demand exists" , but I gave you the benefit of the doubt and read on to see if you had a point. I mean I thought you might be referring to the decline in the western empires' consumption and were planning on getting around to the ever increasing demand coming from the East and developing nations...

Second, you didn't

Or hell, maybe there is something wrong with my mathskillz:

 Demand: http://www.indexmundi.com/energy.aspx

Supply: http://www.indexmundi.com/energy.aspx?product=oil&graph=production

 

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 22:56 | Link to Comment Breaker
Breaker's picture

Europe will pretend not to buy oil from Iran. Iran will pretend not to sell it. Eventually, the European people will wonder why their leaders let some of the leading nut cases on the planet wave nuclear tipped missiles at them.

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 17:29 | Link to Comment The Heart
The Heart's picture

Sadly, the euporean people have been neutered and dumbed down so they no longer have the guts to stand up to their ZOG that has already conquered them. Orwell won there without a shot fired. Really sad to think this is also happening in america, a once was great nation. Now, we are the stooges for the zionist/rothchild/bankster/eugenicists that want to KILL US ALL OFF! Stupid is as stupid does. Take your number and follow the lemming in front of you.

When will the World's people get it? We all have the same common enemy. Those who dance on dark stars, run the worlds media weapons of mass distraction, and call money god. There really are answers to save a planet of lemmings. The question might be, is it too late to unite world wide and defeat this beast that seeks to kill us all?

Division is a disease that was created by man to control other men. God created the Family of Man, all One. The commonalities being we are all made up of the four basic elements, fire, water, earth, and air, and all share the commonalty of being the same in Spirit. The heart knows no difference between good energy. It does however know the pain of conflictive inharmonious vibrations that do not resonate there. The only differences are the ones they SAY there are. Individuality is like a snowflake. It takes many to make a snowstorm and a snow storm would not be a snowstorm without every unique integral snowflake.

The one thing EVERYONE on the planet must ask, and especially when it comes to the leader puppet election, IF WE HAVE IT, is do we all WANT MORE WAR OR NOT? It is that dam simple. Never mind all the rhetoric the normal prostitutes and globalists for wall street are saying now, if you want to know where they are coming from, compare the voting records. Easy peazy and a simple decision to make.

TO WAR FOR MORE BANKSTERS PROFIT, OR NOT TO WAR, THAT IS THE QUESTION.

 

***

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:38 | Link to Comment mr_T
mr_T's picture

Priceless move.. hat tip... Oh wait .. does this mean I have to pay more at the pump... Costs 100 usd/70 EU to fill my tank as it is.. I c dead cars @ $250 a barrel in 3 years.. they just don't know they are dead.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:39 | Link to Comment Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Mr_T, I see $30 a barrel when the market collapses in a few months. The oil producers will shut off the taps. When the excess oil is removed from the market after a year or two, then you will have your $150+ barrel price after everyone is wiped out of jobs and any real means to make a living.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:07 | Link to Comment mr_T
mr_T's picture

Vamp respectfully disagee .. yes might have a dip like u mentioned never to $30. At that price the central Asians would be stockpiling huge getting out of Usd's . If you read any Chris martensons presentations might change ur view on oil. Brgrds.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:13 | Link to Comment Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Central Asian countries are economically collapsing just as ZH has pointed out. Yes, they will stockpile oil until they have no where to put it at $30. The price will then remain depressed since no one will want oil. It is basic supply and demand. Revert to the mean. Deflation bitchez!!

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:39 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Fuck, another clueless deflationary flat-earther!

Tyler, we need the "Captcha" thing back --- pronto!

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 01:51 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

akak - look, they're a tag team. Yes to Captcha

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 20:58 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Never, really?  You know what they say about using That word.

I've argued this point for so many years now I'm even getting sick of it, but... it's NOT price, it's AFFORDABILITY.  I think (though I haven't read all the posts in this thread) that Vamp might be indicating this aspect.

No, one doesn't have to be in disagreement with Peak Oil (production; or, as I warn- peak oil imports) to suggest low-looking price numbers.  Besides, what if MASSIVE deflation were to occur, could the USD perhaps buy a lot more?  And, one other thing to factor in, though it's hard to conceive of now, is that the US could drop out of the global economy in order to horde its own oil; pricing would therefor be all internally-based.

One day people will forget about oil, forget about the oil-paradigm because they won't be able to afford it (even at a low cost- such as the case for existing billions of humans on this planet, TODAY).

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 04:13 | Link to Comment Element
Element's picture

it's NOT price, it's AFFORDABILITY.

 

Exactly, ... and the lion's share of that is driven by currency exchange, not just supply demand driven inflation.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:03 | Link to Comment Ponzified Plebe
Ponzified Plebe's picture

Vampy,

 

If there was so much excess on the markets, why did the US tap into it's strategic reserves when Lybian oil went offline, even after Saudi Arabia pledged to make up the shortfall? The reason why is that Saudi Arabia has no excess reserves without damaging their own abilities for future production. This is all due to the fact that global oil production (read cheap oil) peaked in the mid 2000's (2005-07), supply has flattened and as such countries are scrambling to meet demand. The only way demand is curbed is through price spikes, since the world economy cannot accomodate pricing above the $100/barrel mark (+/-). When we see massive price dips it is only on the back end of demand destruction, but the dips keep getting shallower as capacity keeps shrinking.

 

You seriously need to study up on Peak Oil, otherwise you will continue to misinterpret the markets, and global events that center on energy acquisition.

 

Europe effectively stepped on their own dicks by following Israel/US inane drive to go after Iran. The fact of the matter is Israel and the US would be better off if they let Iran be. If for some reason Iran did anything stupid and over the top, there is a better chance for a international solution to the problem. But since they are viewed as co-aggressors, they are on the loosing side of the bargin, as Iran calls their bluff and shifts supply to areas where demand isn't coupled with Western warmongering.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:28 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Eat shit King George.

XOXOXOXO,

Iran

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:34 | Link to Comment Money 4 Nothing
Money 4 Nothing's picture

It's for the kids.. don't cha know?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:51 | Link to Comment Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

This is going to make for a very interesting year. Sadly not in a good way.

 

http://goldisking.blogspot.com/

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:18 | Link to Comment Are you kidding
Are you kidding's picture

How many "brown people" would there be if "white people" long ago hadn't "allowed" them to live? Don't get too cocky about their apparent downfall, they did it once...

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:54 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

A lot less.

White oppression in the form of modern medicine, refrigeration, agriculture, electric power, etc., has caused the numbers of brown people to swell at apeshit rates.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:52 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

uh...Iranians really aren't that brown

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:03 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

so not quite brown enough to meet the criteria for your final eugenics solution?

You hear that Iranians: stay out of the sun, or you'll be in grave danger of crossing the 'pigmentation line' Trav has drawn in the sand in his head.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 20:36 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Zing!

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:06 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Six million dollar question: what does Russia and China do when push really comes to shove on Iran?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:08 | Link to Comment Quintus
Quintus's picture

Call Timmay and threaten to hold a press conference at which they publicly announce their decision to offload a couple of trillion of USTs the following morning, thereby locking the US and China into a financial MAD scenario?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:50 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

...and oh by the way, our arriance partner Japan says they're dumping theirs too ...and our other arriance partner Russia says they're warming up their ICBMS ...and added they've been waiting a rong time for this :)

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:51 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Except that Bernanke has already successfully tested the idea of the Fed buying up any excess Treasuries (that's essentially what QE2 was all about or was it QE1, I forget). I know the "foreigners will stop buying our debt" is tried-and-true, but I'm not sure it would be that big a deal. It might be if the U.S. was the only country buying its own debt, but it seems like everyone is doing it these days.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:18 | Link to Comment Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

@fonestar

Six million dollar question: what does Russia and China do when push really comes to shove on Iran?

Nothing. They will cave in. Anyplace where there is fiat money, there is a powerful lever to influence policy. And that's everywhere. It's not all-powerful, but it's powerful.

There are three people in the world. 1) Guys who own title to oil producing land. 2) Bankers who print fake money. 3) The rest of us. Note that 3) loses all the time, 2) loses from time to time, but 1) never, ever loses - any game, any war, any time. Never. 

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:32 | Link to Comment old naughty
old naughty's picture

...And 1) plan right on target; 2)knew some but silent; most 3) know zip. Sad.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:45 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

"Six million dollar question: what does Russia and China do when push really comes to shove on Iran?"

Same thing anybody with half a brain does right before the ponzi peters out.. GTFO of the dollar.

Iran will still be there to be a client state and oil supplier after the US screws things up like in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Got FRN's?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:03 | Link to Comment Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

That is exactly what they would do En Masse to the tune of literally trillions of US Dollars, creating a worldwide cascade sell off by every salient and sentient holder to Treasuries, who will want to GTFO so they do not lose their asses in the violent downward move. Worldwide ponzi collapse, and economic paradigm shift. 50 years ago, the Chinese government had no gold in their vaults. Today they are the 10th largest holder of gold in the world. This is not counting the millions, if not more, physical ounces being held privately by Chinese citizens who have been encouraged by the Chinese government to BUY BUY BUY.  A collapse of the Petrodollar would hurt China far less than it would Europe or the US.

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 09:35 | Link to Comment AE911Truth
AE911Truth's picture

"50 years ago, the Chinese government had no gold in their vaults"

For how many thousands of years did the Chinese trade silk for gold?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:56 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

nothing.  They can't do anything.

Russia's sole play is to cut off Europe's gas.  They have no military card to play...we're too powerful in that regard.

China?  fuck them.  Any given week half their workforce is threatening to jump.  They can yell a lot, but what's the downside, they are going to steal some IP from us?  They'll unpeg from our dollar?  ZOMG...they have no cards to play whatsoever.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:20 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

China unpegs Yuan from US dohlah, maybe even backs its currency with real and actual gold.  Yuan appreciates dramatically, China's massive production infrastructure (thanks you greedy multinationals) is  subsequently supported by over a billion people  who suddenly find themselves with a lot more purchasing power.

What did I miss there?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 21:03 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Kick all those profiting US corporations out of their country?  You know, the only corporations that are actually profiting.

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 04:07 | Link to Comment Element
Element's picture

nothing.  They can't do anything.

Russia's sole play is to cut off Europe's gas.  They have no military card to play...we're too powerful in that regard.

China?  fuck them.  Any given week half their workforce is threatening to jump.  They can yell a lot, but what's the downside, they are going to steal some IP from us?  They'll unpeg from our dollar?  ZOMG...they have no cards to play whatsoever.

 

That would make some sense Trav, if they were not working together as they clearly have been more-or-less since WWII

Doubt it? ... just have a look at their similar or else same interoperable weaponry and defence systems.

What's missing?

Have they not developed a baseline ability to work together as allies with global reach?

Same applies to Iran, and Syria, Pakistan, and Venezuela ... and several significant others.

You can not just discount them as individuals, as singular entities, because that is not what the US-NATO is really facing here.

And it's time every one opened their eyes and faced that reality.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 22:37 | Link to Comment earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

if you've got something that the world needs, or can't do without - you'll find yourself with alot of friends

china needs the oil, period

russia doesn't need the oil, but would love turning the ME, into a satellite nation

iran wants nuclear power to bring itself into the 21st century like its neighbors, the saudi's,  just southwest of the persian gulf & gulf of oman - what they see is kuwait, bahrain, qatar, and all of saudi arabia living in comfort from their oil revenues

are they asking to much?

they've witness their western neighbor iraq's devestation,... and for what - a lifetime of sanctions/

answer: neither russia's putin, or will china's growing dependence on oil,... let the US or Israel walk-in and occupy

it ain't gonna work, period! 

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:09 | Link to Comment NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

proud? really? maybe your perspective would change if you were in an iranian prison or you had a family member murdered or vanish courtesy of iran.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:14 | Link to Comment NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

go ahead - cheer on evil - see how that works for you

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:17 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

the american government has more innocent humans incarcerated or killed than Iran, by far.  can't even compare in relative terms.  how is that for evil?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:22 | Link to Comment NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

thats complete BS.  if you are proud of iran, take your family and move there.  you wont be spewing snarky comments on a blog

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:23 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

ah yes, the love it or leave meme...  that takes deep thought to crank that one out.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:02 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

jingoistic belligerence is the go-to tactic of the clueless "patriot".

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:56 | Link to Comment Straw Dog
Straw Dog's picture

Is that original, if so I am impressed.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:50 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

it is indeed, my Frankenstein.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:59 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:59 | Link to Comment Quintus
Quintus's picture

Not too dissimilar to Samuel Johnson's quip in 1775 that 'Patriotism is the last refuge of a Scoundrel''.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:13 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

the difference being that the scoundrel knows he is spouting lies... whereas the average pro-war american somehow has convinced himself that starting wars all over the planet is a good thing...  for someone....  for some fucked up reason.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 21:20 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Warvangelism: "Patriots killing sand niggers for Jesus, Big Oil and the Fed since 1953"

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:30 | Link to Comment piceridu
piceridu's picture

I continue to be in awe of Zh'ers. It's one of the few places on the web that users use logic and reason to formulate thought and ideas. It is one of the few places where a substantial number of people can think for themselves and when they reached the age of reason, they have realized that most of the the things (memes) we were brainwashed with early on were complete and utter bullshit. It is also amazing that a few "free thinkers" still can't let go of that American superiority complex.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:55 | Link to Comment NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

funniest comment of the year

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:00 | Link to Comment Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

You create conflict with unsubstantiated, demeaning ideas that have no internal consistency and are aggressive to the other participants. Basically, you want to argue, you want to fight, but we are here to discuss. In such an "argument", we cannot lose, because we are not playing your game - hence you cannot win, because you do not have opponents. But you decide to play that aggressivity game, thus the only position you can find yourself in is losing.

Does that make you bitter? Stop identifying with your opinions and open your mind to some authentic discussion. 

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:08 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Nicely said!

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:50 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

"You create conflict with unsubstantiated, demeaning ideas that have no internal consistency and are aggressive to the other participants."

<chuckle> yeah, it was well said. But you forgot the /sarc taq on your compliment akak. After all, that same comment could just as easily be directed at you and maintain it's relevance, without having to alter a single word.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:59 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

concur 100%

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:42 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

What a surprise --- one of the most smug, arrogant, close-minded (and unapologetically statist) posters here concurs with the most abrasive, racist, willfully antagonistic troll on the board.

 

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:42 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

what a surprise, another "I know you are but what am I" retort from akak.

Yeah,  I may not be too thrilled about receiving Trav's support, but that certainly doesn't mean he missed the mark here.

Bullseye!

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:15 | Link to Comment Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

I did not think I would need to explicitly substantiate my statement since NOTW777's sequence of posts is accessible to anybody who had been reading the thread.

To somebody affirming a pride of Iran's actions on the global geopolitical stage, as a non-interventionist nation that legitimately stands by its national sovereignty, he went on a rent about its internal politics (which is in a big part overrepresented by biased corporate media, in a big part the effect of the U.S.'s previous meddling with the region, and then, only then, also somewhat factual yet still irrelevant), then accussed his interlocutor of cheering evil.

When the latter underlined how the US loses in the comparison with Iran - highest incarceration rate in the world, no respect of individual rights, sustained war crimes and crimes against humanity for centuries - he only stated it was BS, skipped the matter entirely and dismissed the speaker in a rhetorical attack that was easily identified as such.

Then when somebody underlined the capacity of the posters on this board to keep the discussion civil, according to generally agreed rules of rhetoric - that is, preventing it from devolving in childish arguments and attacks - NOTW777 sneered derisively. I then made my previously mentionned putdown.

Please indicate how my previous post was creating conflict, unsubstantiated, demeaning, without internal consistency or agressive? I aim to resolve the conflict through a thorough analysis of its manifestations, not to feed it. 

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:29 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

No no, don't misunderstand my comment. I sincerely think that  what you wrote was righteous. I was just having a grin at the irony inherent in a Zh'er like akak complimenting you on it.

Appy polly logies if that wasn't clear.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 18:19 | Link to Comment Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Let it be said that I am not the one to whom akak's green arrow belongs. I believe my comment should stand for itself.
However I do understand that, without context, my comment could have been construed as hilariously self-referential irony. I hadn't seen that until you created the need for me to expose the underlying rationale. 

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:31 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Thinkforyourself, you have absolutely NOTHING for which to apologize, or to defend here --- your civility and rational discourse are beyond reproach.  Please note that the poster who so flippantly dismissed and sneered at you is known for doing so regularly with other members here, and while not being a crude or ignorant flamer like the member with the yellow-faced avatar, I promise that you will get nowhere in trying to logically or calmly refute his smug and dismissive, evasive nonsense; better you not even try.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:52 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

haha! So rich. Thanks for the glowering introduction akak, you're a gem.

Tell you what, Thinkforyourself:  Keep your eye on both of us for awhile and be your own judge.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 18:08 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Tell you what, Thinkforyourself:  Keep your eye on both of us for awhile and be your own judge.

Indeed, TFY, do just that, and judge for yourself (think for yourself) who is the more insightful, honest and logically consistent poster here.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 18:42 | Link to Comment Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Why this war of egos? Stop comparing with others and just try to be - for yourself - as honest, insightful and logically consistent as you can. That's enough for me.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 18:44 | Link to Comment Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Thank you Akak. I'm grateful for your intention, however please take care in avoiding to label posters thusly. It does not support my ideas in any way. For instance, Trav7777 can sometimes be one of the worst assholes I've met on this forum, yet often enough he has comments that I'd +10 if I could.
I guess that what I intend to say is, when dealing with a comment I strive, and mostly manage, to only deal with what is inside the comment box, and not bring the past into it. You might end up finding yourself entertaining interesting discussions with someone you would have labelled troll otherwise. 

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 18:50 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

I guess that what I intend to say is, when dealing with a comment I strive, and mostly manage, to only deal with what is inside the comment box, and not bring the past into it. You might end up finding yourself entertaining interesting discussions with someone you would have labelled troll otherwise.

That is an excellent point that we would all do well to keep in mind, TFY, and one which I will be the first to admit that I have not always successfully managed to do.  But I have made peace with several posters whom I initially or for a time dismissed as "trolls", and with whom I have had succeeding productive exchanges, such as WonderDawg. 

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:48 | Link to Comment Ponzified Plebe
Ponzified Plebe's picture

NOTW777,

Is your handle taken from that chincy Christian clothing line "Not Of This World", and on top of that you add the three-fold prerfection number? Are you seriously buying into the anachronistic evangelical schtick that believes that everything that Israel does is good because Jesus is going to save them before the end of the great tribulation? So every action taken against Israel, no matter how much they have it coming, is somehow evil because it's an attack against God's chosen people? What happens when they assasinate foreign leaders and scientists, like they did on Iranian soil, when there is not one shred of evidence that Iran is building up its nuclear portfolio to bring power to a population that badly needs it?

If you knew anything about US history with Iran, which has a proud 3000 year history, and a political heritage with depth, you would understand why the Iranian regeime has taken such an understandably adversarial stance with the USG. Among those reasons: we had no problem pillaging their oil with our puppets ruling their nation, and our unflinching support of an infallable Israeli state. Iran is far from an ideal state, and probably would be better off without the Iyatolla's running the show, but they have kept Iran free from Western control for over 3 decades, after being the pawns of the US and Brittan for the better part of the 20th century.

Go back and read your bible, and for that matter some good commentary on the book of Revelation that asserts that the divinely sanction Jewish state ended in AD 70 when their temple was destroyed by Rome. Nor is Scripture a road map that tells you exactly how to interpret current events, this view is absolutely dangerous. This means that the modern Israeli state is no more divinely sanctioned than any other nation, and ought to be held accountable to international law, just like the rest - meaning they should stop disposessing their neighbors of their land, and start recognizing the hornets nest that they have stirred up in the Middle-East with US backing. Christians historically have never done themselves favors when they get overly involved in the political affairs of this world under spiritual auspices, and American evangeilcals have done irreprable harm in conflating Middle Eastern politics into their cockamamie dispensational theology, which they have leveraged into an overblown foreign policy that has lead to a carte blanche support of Israel, and the unneccessary and undiplomatic repession of Arab states - which conveniently satisfies our insatiable thirst for foreign oil... you know, stuff that Jesus was really concerned with during his earthly ministry

 

If NOTW is the Christian handle I suspect it is, you might also want to reconsider your handle and stop reducing the faith handed down from the saints to stupid sloganeering. And while your at it, read some history of the region before spewing the dangerous bullshit that you currently hold to.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:21 | Link to Comment graymnzrc
graymnzrc's picture

I don't think that it is necessarily a superiority complex to say "if you are so unhappy or you are so fond of xyz country, go live there". Granted many other American attitudes are very arrogant but why is it wrong to suggest that someone put themselves in a (self-percieved) better social\political\economic environment?

I wouldn't even have a problem with someone migrating to\from my country and then reversing thier decision after they saw that the grass wasn't as green as they thought it would be.

It's a relatively free country, if you don't like being here, try somewhere else. I am sure they will let you leave if you decide to come back...or will they?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:33 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

why should I have to move away?  The U.S. government and its illegal and immoral policies are the issue.  Moving away = running away.   Running away is not the answer, its time to stand and fight this shit however one is able, including speaking out.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:45 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Exactly.

When the entire world consists of prison camps of only modestly differing severities, it is specious and intellectually insulting to tell a dissatisified inmate of any given camp "Well, you are free to leave at any time!".

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:49 | Link to Comment Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Hence the Brave New World novel's solution to leave one single, isolated island free from the metropolis' influence. As if that was freedom.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 23:29 | Link to Comment Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

'its time to stand and fight this shit "

As you say, if the fight becomes global, choosing one's preferred location becomes a primary tactical consideration. Do you have a family? Do you want your children to grow up where you are?

Apart from that, millions voting with their feet sends a powerful signal. After all, that was the final straw that brought the Soviet empire down.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:31 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

piceridu

It is also amazing that a few "free thinkers" still can't let go of that American superiority complex.

I agree with all you say, this part I believe comes from the fact, that the world would be speaking German & Japanese, if it were not for America,plus we have given aid to anyone and everyone on this planet for over 75yrs, whether they needed it or not.

Tends to give one a slight reason for the BigHead syndrome.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:09 | Link to Comment Dugald
Dugald's picture

GIVEN, You mean like in the Marshall Plan, given????

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 00:32 | Link to Comment piceridu
piceridu's picture

But on who's dime? Japan was goaded into attacking and the Germans would have lost their asses even without our help...suggested reading:

 

World War II
The Rest of the Story and How It Affects You Today 
1930 to September 11, 2001, Revised Edition.
Part Two of a two-part series about the World Wars

by Richard J. Maybury

 

"The best book I've read on World War II. It provides genuinely original insights on why the U.S. didn't need to become involved, and destroys many myths that persist about the war. Maybury ties the misunderstandings about World War II to the misunderstanding about today's U.S. foreign policy."   —Harry Browne

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:33 | Link to Comment jayman21
jayman21's picture

The real fun begins with two "real" ZHers disagree.  It will keep you laughing the whole afternoon.  As for the sleeping middle class with taking points, I welcome new comers to ZH and hope they will wake up.  ZH does this one person at a time and that is what I hope for.

AND...When you have been beaten, it is a privilege to be beaten at the fight club.

 

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:55 | Link to Comment Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Indeed. Dialectics is the sharpening stone of the mind. I'm thankful for and respectful of the opportunity to better myself and others through it.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:46 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Exactly. We have less tyranny than Iran so it is Iran's fault when we corner the rat and start poking it. This is psychotic behavior.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:43 | Link to Comment pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

We don't like you warmonger.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:48 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

The thing is. I wouldn't care if they didn't force us to pay for it and brainwash our kids into fighting it. Fuck them.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:55 | Link to Comment gravedestruction
gravedestruction's picture

john39 A greed    Unfortunately in such places where the blind are leading the blind we see that evil becomes "some place else but certainly not here". Evil appears in many forms and is deceptive beyond measure yet the fools among us ignore the warning signs they are being led to the slaughter by their chosen 'ruler of fools'. Evil destroys those who tolerate or embrace it. Evil must not be allowed to flourish in any way shape or form when properly recognized only with wisdom that is not of this world. Komplacency Kills.

Here in the land of the living there is certainly nothing new under the sun.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:50 | Link to Comment prains
prains's picture

GraveD. You can call them Judeo Gucci Christians it will save you time in the future

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:17 | Link to Comment pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

You're so silly.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:00 | Link to Comment goldenrod
goldenrod's picture

Iran has attacked on invaded no one for 200 years.  How many countries has the US attacked in the last 60 years?  Iran has a repressive regime but so do most of the countries that the US is allied with.

The real evil is Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and the US is in bed with both of those countries.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:58 | Link to Comment Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Hell, the US has attacked so many countries in the last 25 years I can't even keep count.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 21:19 | Link to Comment Seer
Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:18 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Yeah because America doesn't disappear innocent people...and GITMO is a conspiracy theory...And the Abu Ghraib photos were "photo shopped" by the al-Qaeda special effect department...And no innocent people are sitting in American jails.

Right?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:52 | Link to Comment prains
prains's picture

NDAA

SOPA / OPEN

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:35 | Link to Comment jayman21
jayman21's picture

Martin Armstrong is out...

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:18 | Link to Comment Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

I don't know maybe try asking the people who went to jail for exercising their free speech rights on the holocaust Holocaustleugnung

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:27 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

and truth is no defense.  even orwell couldn't think up something more orwellien...

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:45 | Link to Comment Laddie
Laddie's picture

Voltaire’s maxim 'I do not agree with what you say, but I defend your right to say it,' has become 'I cannot disprove what you say, but I forbid you to say it.

- Sylvia Stolz

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:20 | Link to Comment samsara
samsara's picture

Yes, True,  BUT,  BUT,  the Iranian prison's now really pale in comparisons to when the SAVAK ran it for the Shah, (with our and Israeli training of course).

(With your vast reading of Iranian history, I am sure you will concur)

Now THOSE were the days of some really really well implemented Torture.

These guys are pikers

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:26 | Link to Comment imaginalis
imaginalis's picture

Surawardhi would be known by anyone with a vast knowledge of Iranian history

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:28 | Link to Comment tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

Sounds a bit like guantanamo bay

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:30 | Link to Comment goldenrod
goldenrod's picture

Maybe your perspective would change too if you had a family member murdered or maimed by America's senseless war of aggression in Iraq and other places?  How about the 500,000 Iraqi kids who died because of sanctions imposed on Iraq 1990s?  According to Madeline Albright that is an acceptable price.  Perhaps your perspective would change too if one of them was your child?

 

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:38 | Link to Comment agent default
agent default's picture

Yeah, this is about Iran's human rights record right?  As if the US and the West never supported tinpot dictators of the worst kind right?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 14:18 | Link to Comment Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

In agreement here but I just feel like detailing it at a slightly deeper level, because the US and the West never overthrew Iran's first moderate democracy, making them suffer under decades of rabid western-interest tyranny, thus provoking the expected reaction that the people would depose the dictator at some point, turning back to radical nationalism as an hegelian counterbalance to the western oppression suffered, this reaction back towards radical nationalism being itself again hijacked by CIA asset Khomeini, in order to establish the radical islamism which is now supposedly the next chapter of the dialectical "problem", right?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:11 | Link to Comment Quintus
Quintus's picture

The EU's stance on this is pathetic.  They're like the sherriff in the movie 'Blazing Saddles' holding himself hostage - 'Do what we say, Iran, or we'll deprive our feeble economies of essential energy supplies!'

That'll show 'em.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:23 | Link to Comment grgy
grgy's picture

Iran doesn't need Europe. They will have no problem finding buyers for their limited production.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:45 | Link to Comment agent default
agent default's picture

The EU is pathetic.  End of story.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:56 | Link to Comment Quintus
Quintus's picture

Can't argue with that, although for the sake of clarity I would like to draw a distinction between the pathetic yet megalomaniacal, Brussels based 'European Union' organisation, and the actual continent and states of Europe, which are mostly not pathetic at all.

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