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ISDA Finds Greek Credit Event Has Occurred Reports Bloomberg
Total confusion around this, as there is no formal Press Release from ISDA yet, but since this one comes from Bloomberg, let's assume they have double checked their data. From Bloomberg:
- ISDA EMEA DETERMINATIONS COMMITTEE: RESTRUCTURING CREDIT EVENT
- ISDA SAYS CREDIT EVENT HAS OCCURRED WITH RESPECT TO GREECE
- COMMITTEE DETERMINES AUCTION TO BE HELD ON MARCH 19
- ISDA EMEA: AUCTION TO BE HELD ON OUTSTANDING CDS TRANSACTIONS
This despite refutations from ISDA 15 minutes ago that no decision had been reached. Of course, if this is a spoof PR that has gotten half the media world confused, the farce will be 100% complete.
And now preparations for the physical CDS auction begin (for a primer see here from 2009). Furthermore, there are those who point out that Greece has just over $3 billion in net CDS outstanding, so it should all be contained. Well, Lehman had $7.2 billion. Ended up requiring a $20 trillion bailout of capitalism.
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Credit event, bitchez
Holding physical bullion has rarely felt so satisfying.
Remember, we know that some of those banks wrote the language in such a way that not all the CDS purchasers will be satisfied with the "insurance" they thought they bought. Same for the hedgers because it gets paid out over time and only in way that the language says.
somehow this is bullish
http://www.isda.org/dc/view.asp?issuenum=2012030901
No!! This is the WRONG decision. This going to seriously impact the balance sheets of some of the world's systemically important financial institutions. This is madness!!! I can't believe it.
The truth hurts.
The truth? The truth is that these financial institutions are instrumental to the global economy. For goodness sake! We are talking about top tier investment banks and primary dealers here! These institutions are simply TOO BIG TO FAIL!
He's right about the TBTF part. He forgot he's supposed to be a troll.
What do you call a troll who is not really a troll but only pretending to be a troll for sake of irony?
personally, i call the fulking asswipe a 100% string-jumping cunt and a serious turd on these strings of toilet paper tyler publishes as a MSM puppet
So far this 'credit event' feels like a 'non-event'...
that's what i said when i screwed a Las Vegas hooker and afterward she told me she had crabs. I just thought, prob not a big deal...
A troll.
Stephen Cobert?
I'm too big to fail because of too many Big Macs. Where's my bailout?
The government will rescue you, but it helps if you make yourself a hopeless case.
(Anybody can be hopeless if they try even a little.)
http://www.wpix.com/news/wpix-obese-man-cut-out-of-house,0,7150566.story
And you're probably too big to fall too because of that junk food. You'd be crushed under your own weight, like an elephant.
LOL... it's really a pleasure to see MDB panicking.
Can you say Kaaaabooooommmmm!?
many of us are wairing for mrDurden to invite him to be so entertaining at the box at the bottom of the page instead of by "replying" +/- 100% of the time
tyler may wish to get to it pretty fuking soon (somewhere in tyler-time > another 6 months, too) imh0...
let's see, shall we...?
Well, initially I thought MDB was just being sarcastic since many people seemed to get that impression. But he never adds the /sarc tag, and responses like this one really don't read like a good sarcastic comment, it reads more like one who just defecated in their pants. I'd be the last person to argue that MDB should add the /sarc tag as a matter of conformity, but as far I can tell, MDB might as easily be a FedBot as human. He(?) certainly has a very limited repertoire. A real one-trick pony.
I'll put it straight up to MDB: are you being sarcastic, or not?
he's always doing his little ha-ha's, but i truly object to him jumping every string he decides to "get a laff from his audience" upon
i don't think it's good for the site and the ideas that might be 'happening' if all these articles didn't end up being about what he is doing here with his little furmulaic "couplets"
he's a troll, grrrl!
let's just get rid of the fuking asswipe!
or, he and tyler can ride off into the senset on the same saddle, as far as i'm concerned
personally, i was sick of this a long time ago: when i first called him out i was sick and tired of his toy-boy trollery here
and that was a while back
i won't accept a steady diet of his string-jumping shit any more
anybody else?
I agree entirely, slewie, especially the part about sidetracking ideas. And of course if the point was to sidetrack the entire discussion, then what better way to help that along than by posting near the top?
It's stuff like this - contstant trollery - that ended my days on peak oil blogs. I estimate on one site, depending on the thread, anything related to energy reserves or production would range from 25% to 75% trolls. (There are beaucoup fracking trolls and shills) But when I looked at threads unrelated to energy, say prepper threads or appropriate technology, there would be 0 trolls. So I've seen this pattern of heavy industry trolling on threads that matter to them and their public relations machine for a long time now.
I'm not surprised to see it here either, and maybe it is a testimonial to the draw of ZH. But, at some point too many trollish posts make me want to throw up and I have to go do something else. That's not necessarily a bad thing... I spend too much of my free time here as it is, mostly reading and trying to learn all this wacky finance jargon.
Still lots of good stuff here but the signal to noise ratio on the comments is getting pretty low. Something tells me that's the plan.
well, we fight one day at a time
nothing is ever easy
especially learning about wacky finance and trolls who don't want the truth getting out
tyler will run the club, and we just try to keep up and pay attention
peace, grrl
weak
Hey MillionDollarFucker, you mean the financial institutions are instrumental to the corrupt global Ponzi economy. Let it fail now! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!
We need local economies and a minimum of government. The sooner the better.
unfortunately - the 'the let them eat cake' thing is what we're gonna get and it's gonna be made with tree bark...hemlock and wormwood
Million DollarBonus,let me start by saying "you" atre a piece of shit.
Secondly I see you have little pea brain payed helpers to hit the green arrows today.
And too big to fail means too big to exist.
Fuck I would love to smack you FuckTard.
Instrumental how? Savings money isn't running through there now, small businesses can (should) use credit unions & get no printed Fed bailouts anyhow, so who cares?
Maybe all of those systemically important financial institutions will now DIAF.
Go fuck yourself MillionDollarRetard
From Michael Lewis' "The Big Short"
"How are you going to fuck me?"
Really that is what I want to know with my investments against these people. How is the FED/Treasury/ECB going to fuck me?
in ways you only had nighmares about
MDB,
Hilarious! Thanks, some of us get it!
DavidC
Settle down Bonus, calm. Your still have your paper. Be happy that you followed what you think was right. It will all work out for you because you are special.
I'm impressed..by your ability to type these insightful postings and suck your own cock, all at the same time.
You are absolutely right! The balance sheets of the world's most important financial institutions has been stuffed like a Thanksgiving turkey with 'Stimulus', POMO, STOMO and any other debt or taxpayer generated fake monopoly money from the Central Banks, both ECB and the Fed.
And pray tell, MDB, what kind of REAL economic activity came from all of this massive money printing? Did those TBTF banks extend any credit in a huge wave? No, they're killing time, trying to offset all the CDS's they've bet on, whether it's currencies, bonds or credit.
They're basically insolvent and being kept afloat with a huge IV of money running into their veins. We're coming up on the true reckoning to see what the value of the collateral is, who the counterparties are and even, who holds what trash they've sold to each other, over and over again in a rehypothecating frenzy of free money, multiplied a thousand, million times until you have $600 Trillion of paper that's worth how much...?
Precisely right! It's a 30 year mortgage (downturn) and the Banksters are only going to make the minimum payments due, tout their liquidity and credit worthiness to get all the more that they can, and continue to pay themselves the bonus checks all the while accumulating "rights" to real assets. We poor sheeple must wait for the collaspe while mesmerized by our entertainment devices until the power goes off. And when it does, and the bleating frenzy ensues, the same Banking Powers will step forward with their "solution". And the sheeple will embrace them and thank them.
Because they're sheep. Game, set, match.
Luckily I also have me some FAZ to go with my PMs. If only I didn't have that boating accident with the shiny, I'd have to be a lot happier.
Can we now say, "Told ya so, bitchez" to the rest of the world, or will there be some other deus ex machina to contain this shitstorm?
I predict the banks will have the last laugh, and will continue to do so until the velocity of money drops below the threshhold at which the velocity of lead increases exponentially, up to about 2800 fps.
Well of course they do, if they need to pay off any CDS contracts they can just borrow the money for free from the Fed, and make the American people pay for it through inflation. Everyone else is fucked. Whee!
They have been holding this up so long, if true, this doesn't feel real.
Delicious! I told you guys! ;)
Nope. Chuck Testa.
As the last line said in the article, on paper it says they have 3.2 billion in CDS but Lehman had 7 and change and required a 20 trillion dollar bailout. The problem is that these are the 3.2 billion is in CDS's they know. They have no idea how many CDS's where sold in the market for Greece, either naked (meaning they don't own the bond) or ones that own it. They can truthfully say that it's only 3.2 billion but they know it's more, and maybe they are hoping they can negate the naked owners because they don't own the bonds.
So imagine I'm hedgefund A and I bought 1 billion dollars in bonds from Greece I bought CDS's for that 1 billion and it's under another nations laws of finance so my CDS's will pay. But here comes financial institution B that see's my bond and wants to buy insurance for 1 billion in naked CDS's on the bet that Greece will fail on the contractual obligations of the original bond. Now you have at least 2 billion dollars that is directlly and indirectly tied to Greece. But now Pension fund xyz gets a CDS on financial institution B and hedgefund A and paying the premiums for 1 billion dollars on each one, thinking that when the CDS pays off on hedgefund it will also pay off on financial institution also . So you have 4 billion dollars in the play that they are wanting compensated for and they bought insurance for. Where did the buy the CDS's from, if they bought them all from one place that place just got hit for 4 billion dollars possibly.
I stopped here because it we could have more co-parties and other financial instruments that are connected, but a simple thing I was able to make a 4 billion dollar hit on someone or a few issuing places, and they have only 3.2 billion in CDS's, please. I wouldn't be surprised if people didn't start buying CDS's in the hope that Greece would collapse so they could get a good payday.
https://twitter.com/#!/KevinDuganDI/status/178201859071287296/photo/1/large
If this ends up being premature it'll truly reveal what 'markets' are all about. Who said what now?
Let the fun begin! Shot of Ouzo for everyone.
I needed to add OOOPPPAAAAAA
i'd buy tyler a drink, but all i have with me is this huge bong-load of skunkWeedTM
oh! hi tyler!
How you doin'?
great, thanks, fuu
smoke? Hahaha! sticky fingerz todaaaay!
this is a much more orderly bankster fiatsco than lehman, imo
tyler can sell all the soap he wants, i don't care! the ISDA rules correctly! why not?
when i realized why the markets were "frozen" last weekend, why they were screwed down so tight, for so long, i could envision the script, here; what the isda decided, when, why? if the CDS are dressed. this is the script! all actors are ready for the curtain call, at which point the greek pensioners will set the theatre ablaze...
when i began to understand the EU "margin call" to the banks was a bookkeeping m2m entry, this week, after the LTR0 sovereign-bond transfers, last week, i began to understand most of the the "parts" of what i then conceived to be an oderly-market "process" around "sovereign EU-nation debt"
if these markets and assets aren't screwed down tight, i'll be a nunkey's monacle!
we see the EUR and the CHF (swiss cheese, er franc) taking it in the unlubed anal pore today, which is about all the major action i see, right now
which is to be expected since the FED now gets to "unwind" all the liquid fuking dran0 to the EU banksters, now or when it thinks they can handle it, a bit, or when it wants to "consolidate" them... and somebody else knows this, too...
this is an orderly market, fuu
where "market" = wink, wink
they'll finish getting this flushed and take the tennis racket outa the screw-press when they damned well feel like it, i imagine
the benzelbub was given a lotta power&control over "banking" by dodd-frank, or so the legends go... since lehman, that would be...
this is a vast improvement in the zombie-real interface, imo
everybody got to play "casino" and only moronic shitheads and lazy no-good-ne'er-do-wells were harmed by these innocent fiatscos of wealth transfer... L0L
there is no deus ex and the banks are still shitty as ever, but this deal is done, at least "for the time BEing"
stay tooned...
Brown sugar how come you taste so good?
Are you cool, man???
yes or no, you care?
really no net change with this news, am I turning into a cynic (origin is Greek). From Wiki: Cynicism is an attitude or state of mind characterized by a general distrust of other's apparent motives, or a general lack of faith or hope in the human race. It is a form of jaded negativity, and other times, realistic criticism or skepticism.[1] The term originally derives from an ancient Greek philosophers group called the Cynics who rejected all conventions, whether of religion, manners, housing, dress, or decency, advocating the pursuit of virtue in a simple and unmaterialistic lifestyle.
They're just goosing the algos at this point ... testing the waters perhaps.
Game on! Time to find out just how "hedged" these banks really are ...
My net exposure is 0, as long as my counterparties can pay.
The trouble is your counterparties ARE the determination committee.
Got that right:
EMEA
Voting Dealers
Bank of America / Merrill Lynch
Barclays
BNP Paribas
Credit Suisse
Deutsche Bank
Goldman Sachs
JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A.
Morgan Stanley
Société Générale
UBS
Consultative Dealers
Citibank
The Royal Bank of Scotland
Voting Non-dealers
BlueMountain Capital (Second Term Non-dealer)
Citadel LLC(First Term Non-dealer)
D.E. Shaw Group (First Term Non-dealer)
Elliott Management Corporation (Third Term Non-dealer)
Pacific Investment Management Co., LLC (Second Term Non-dealer)
Popcorn please! while we watch the big "if" play out.
Show me the moneyyyy!!!!!
I'm so totally confused now - is this bullish or bearish for stocks (serious question)?
DavidC
It depends who the counterparties are, and if they can pay. ISDA called, now everyone has to show their hands and hope the other guy has enough chips.
The part where the music stops and we find the remaining chairs...
HOLY FUCK IT'S AN ACE ON THE RIVER!!!!!
ISDA, or ISN'TDA credit event?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTOKJTRHMdw
Fuck you, I'm out.
Sweet, markets going up
Sweet, 3 minutes later markets going down.
Habemus Papam!
...o ye of little faith. The boys are all right.
http://www.isda.org/dc/docs/EMEA_Determinations_Committee_Decision_09032...
Someone please translate Question #7.
Thanks.
Finally, the real deal, and TZA is going up like a rocket starting about 1448..
and I got in at 1446 - damn, can't be wrong all the time.
Enjoy it while it lasts, cause if you're like me, you're right about once every 10 times in this fucked up "market".
And so it begins....
Credit event did occur:
http://www.isda.org/dc/view.asp?issuenum=2012030901
That is a bingo!!!!!!!!!!
euro is not moving? something isnt right
ahh ... its already priced in ... ? ... I got noth'in ...
I have created a new job for myself: "Credit Event Planner." I specialize in "Greek style" parties and provide plenty of dinnerware for smashing.
http://www.isda.org/dc/view.asp?issuenum=2012030901
Boom!
Next up US debt bomb.
German, then Japanese, then US, then Canada.
i think you missed a few in there
Just the big ones. The little ones will blow up Germany, then the real show begins.
"Ended up requiring a $20 trillion bailout of capitalism."
That is a ridiculous exaggeration, Tyler. You can hardly call it capitalism.
we're all gonna be rich, schmuckster!
rich, i tell ya!!!
i already iz. i Ben follow Robo advice tree yeers!
Try front running his advice...
No confusion here. Below is a link to PDF files from the ISDA that confirm a credit default has occurred
http://www.isda.org/dc/view.asp?issuenum=2012030901
15 yes votes, 0 no votes
Bank of America Merrill Lynch
Barclays
Deutche Bank AG
Goldman Sachs
JP Morgan Chase
Morgan Stanley
UBS
BNP Paribas
Societe Generale
Citadel Investment
DE Shaw Group
BlueMountain Capital
Elliott Management
PIMCO
Furthermore,
The EMEA DC has resolved to hold an auction with respect to the settlement of standard credit default swaps for which the Hellenic Republic is the reference entity. To maximise the range of obligations that market participants may deliver in settlement of any such credit default swaps, the EMEA DC has agreed to ren an expedited auction process such that the auction itself will take place March 19, 2012.
The Lehman sequel,
Credit's Greecy Return
I cant wait to see triolgy edition,
Back in the USSA
So they defaulted, by restructuring with more debt.. to do what re-default again in 90 days?
It was just an elaborate ploy to dump their gold on zee Germans. Pretty smooth, huh?
it's a re-de-re-default, you know, kind of like a burp, fart then shit in your pants.
Eyes on A&G (Allianz & Generali), but more on the G.
Bloomberg - 'This is going to restore credibility in the CDS market' Lol
surely this is a surprise to the isda conmmittee members (sarc off). they are "hedged"
We need Robos opinion, I wanna feel good.
robo's at the lululemon outlet store getting a trunkload of new crotchwear for his gfs
he'll be home after a foursome in torreyPines
And where the HELL is MDB, to point out to us "The System Worked" ?
You'll have to figure out his new handle as the old one is MIA again.
http://www.zerohedge.com/users/robottrader
L0L!!!
let's party! Robo-T'sTheme
That's some talented song writing right there.
Wheeee! Ouzo for everyone!!
We all need to hedge ourselves before Monday's open. Sell all your PMs---load up on great American businesses like AAPL, ZNGA and NFLX....then later in the spring, back up the truck for FCBK!!
There has been too much time for TPTB to track down all the swaps and ensure they have them ring fenced.
This is unlikely to be a collapse inducing event. Governments can do anything to stop collapse. It's when they have no time to do anything because it is a surprise that the collapse arrives.
Or when there is nothing they can physically do (not legally, legal doesn't matter) that we can see collapse.
This ain't either.
So around $10,000,000,000,000 coming out of our pockets then? By the way, that date, March 19:th, coincides beatifully with the wispering about a Greek default the following weekend.
Regardless wether they declare 'and event' has occured or not, the haircut or write down or bond re issue whatever you want to call it is the h bomb of this whole greek /eu thing. Now it is really becoming clear that debt to the degree that it has been run up by sovereigns is all suspect. All sovereign bonds, all supposedly insured and backstopped derivatives are now suspect. If you notice gold is rising same time as the dollar, while the bond is showing red. So even though people are rushing into the dollar, it's not unilaterally all U.S..
There has been a paradigm shift. Of course there will be the ususal manipulation, but as we all know, that can only go so far, especially when it has to happen on all fronts.
So the EU LIARS are once again proven to be just that : LIARS. Wake up people we are governed by LIARS!
To me, the most interesting part of this whole deal is to finally (maybe) really see how deep this damn rabbit hole goes. The notational $3 billion, these days, is *relatively* trivial, and there has been plenty of time to hedge for the big players. But the whole basic idea of CDS, that you don't have to own the security you are buying 'insurance' on to buy it, is so damn fundamentaly flawed as to boggle the mind of this old-timer, fundamental investor. This truly, truly makes Vegas look rational. And there is NO 'clearing house' to really know where the counterparty risk is or how big it is. Crazy ain't even close.
I think Tyler's $20 trillion is a bear wet dream, but he is a fuck of a lot more knowlegeable than I.
It sure as hell is more than $3 billion. Probably a lot more. So called 'smart money' has had since (say) spring of 2010 to start buying up CDSd betting on Greek default, and it must have accelerated fiercely last year. With the CDS 'market' totally fucking opaque, I doubt anybody has more than a guess at where all the counter-parties are buried. I'm watching my medium list of big financials for a clue - FAS is still up, UBS, HBC are doing poorly, and the squid and Bac just went underwater - we will see.
(Whispering:) Counterpary, counterparty, where art thou? Come out, come out, wherever you are...
As a movie (or TV soap), I think we just went from farce to horror.
dude, slight difference between 08 and now. Of course what is coming is probably worse, but still apples and oranges.
Lehman had $7.2 billion at that time
we talked about millions and billion was an alien word, today we are talking about trillions and billion is a spare cash for McDonalds.
Clif High of Web bot says that at 8:00 pm West cost time this evening, a major event begins where "release language" starts to dissipate and never comes back... This may be the event...
(I'm not associated with the web bot people).
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war, That this foul deed shall smell above the earth. With carrion men, groaning for burial.
Not to worry, USD just broke 80...
fuck you clingon scum your about to eat a photon sandwich
MDB, if only this was sarcasm, sadly I think you're problem a tosser. Still give Robo a call and he can pick up some incontinence knickers for you whilst he's getting his.
Pim Fox - Aren't we going to be the engine for the rest of the world?
Then his guest starts to say the growth is not there (needle scratching across a record)
... "Where going straight to a break"
What a fuckin TWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
Million Dollar Bonus?
Still on a break, come on Pim squeeze harder, you feeble fuck.
It's time for "Dancing With The Defaults"; on the floor now we have.......
Let the lawsuits begin. We will now see how well CDSs work in reducing risk on Sovereign debt. Any bets one which way this goes?
$3B net? That can't be.
Haven't CDS gone from $150T to $600T in the past 3 years?
And Greek bonds were probably to most mis priced. In 18 months ago the Greek 10 year yield was 6%.
There is going to be some big hedge managers exposed for having more money than brains.
Then get ready for the most used quote for the spring..."Who could have seen this coming?"
Success!! Winning!!
apparently, there it is a clause in the CDS contract that states it is only valid when the planets align, during a solar storm, and a full moon...
.....................wait a f'n second.....
What are the fcuking odds on that?!!
Seriously does anyone have a clue what the odds are on having all four discrete events happen at the same time?... the planets align, during a solar storm, and a full moon, in time for a Greek default (triggered Credit event).
Any actuaries or closet statisticians? Got to be huge coincidence.
Napoleon won at Waterloo, sell everything!