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Is It Ironic That This Is Labor Day?
Peter Tchir chimes in with some observations of supreme irony:
It is also ironic that more time has been spent trying to figure out the impact of 45,000 Verizon strikers on NFP, than has been spent on trying to figure out what sort of a system we have where 45,000 employees feel comfortable going on strike when there are NO jobs, and management caves in to their demands. Maybe Obama should address that sort of mentality in his jobs speech next week. Maybe the problem is more at the core of what this country has become than what some new tax incentive to hire can fix. If anything, the tax incentive will likely be good for lawyers who will be paid by big corporations to figure out how to get the most benefit for the least amount of actual change. Maybe I'm being too cynical or maybe that is another core problem that should be addressed, but guess that is too much like hard work for politicians, and might even affect some politicians' friends and campaign contributers.
I guess now I can wait for the Europe going home rally and the QE3 rally, or can start enjoying the beach for Labour day and wait for next week to see how long any bounce (if there is one) lasts.
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robo youre so smart after the fact. we all wish we had your hindsight 20/20 vision
i'll predict the future tomorrow
... I knew you'd say that...
To each his own but I sleep better at night putting money to work in sectors with improving fundamentals not ones with balance sheets ridden with land mines.
you can't be real robo, you just can't be.
be of good cheer, robo is the other you get to trade against.
EASY MONEY! bitches.
Live long and uhmmmmmmmmmmmm well Live long anyway!
hehehe
"Maybe the problem is more at the core of what this country has become than what some new tax incentive to hire can fix."
Maybe this is what I've been trying to say for such a very, very long time. Our great-grandparents warned us. Our grandparents warned us. We personally witnessed it as it reared it's ugly head in the late sixties, and came full bloom in the seventies, only to become institutionalized in the last twenty years: Lack of personal responsibility. No more, and certainly no less. It will be the end of our once great experiment. The freebies and the attorneys killed us, then we elected politicians to keep it that way. We are, as has always been the case, our own worst enemy. We are to be destroyed from the inside out. The dangers of the rest of the world hold nothing against the destructive power of reckless, boundless, unchecked, self-centered greed.
There. I said it
Again.
so true
And our only solution to our decayed leadership, energy, environment and food chain is healing and rebuilding at the most local level.
close but not greed , that follows on arrogance and a dominate the world belief.
First you actually must believe the foolish palaver that you have all the answers and are the gift to mankind.
It is so ingrained in many that they can not question, will not allow it to be questioned.
All flows from that national narcissim writ as divine destiny.
Tragic , but history is replete with examples.
If you come to a closed door, and push with all your might and it still doesn’t open, you have two choices.
The first is to push harder. The second is to try pulling.
Benny, why not raise rates? What the heck? It isn’t as if a little vig would hurt hiring or growth, since there isn’t any of either. Heck, we’ve had much higher rates and growth/job creation at the same time. In fact, at any period of economic expansion in the history of the United States, we had higher rates.
Perhaps a rate raise will put more money in savers’ pockets, and they might spend. Perhaps higher rates would indicate to the world that the US actually cares about the value of its currency and takes its responsibility as owner of the world’s reserve currency seriously. Perhaps if it looks as if the dollar’s fall was limited, somebody somewhere with money might want to invest in the US.
Can’t hurt, Benny. Come on, pull that door.
He should have at least kept rates above 2 when he had the chance.
Anyone with a brain knows that.
Just as you don't want to hand junkies free shit unless you wish to kill them. oooopppsss.
Now he can't do it , but it may happen in spite of him by other means.
Seriously, Tyler and the group of researchers behind this website have given us all a platform and fed us pertinent up to the second info. You have shown much "muchness" Tyler!!!!
The time to buy stocks is when the news is the worst and interest rates are at rock bottom.
Or, at DOW 12,700 as you did, all in, as you copied and pasted your scoldings to bears around multiple blogs at that level....GEE hows that workin out for ya there rear view mirror momotard!
12,700?
RoboTarder was buying with two fists and two feet at Dow 14,700 in 2007. He also bought all those lovely tops on the Dow, Naz & spooz in 1999.
He's long and strong!
True, I was just citing the Great MomoFaders most recent 'all-in long here we're set to blast off bears youll be mangled and slaughtered yadda yadda' trade.
Robo is a caricature of a real person. He is here to stir the pot (imo). If ZH had an ignore button feature, he would vanish.
problem is, the pot is boiling and he keeps using both his thumbs
So then the time to go shorts was when rates were 18% and starting to drop? hahahhaha!
I agree with you robo, but I am afraid interest rates may have a little further to fall from here.
Yep interest rates still havent hit -10% yet, still lots of room to drop.
To bad its not near its bottom, fyi worst isn't a word.
And when do the worst news hit rock bottom?
robo when is the news the worst?
Gaze into your magic screen and let us know when the "worst" news will be.
News flash for robo-----------i can gaze into the wayback machine and time every move to the penny.
Pls , give me the date of the worst bad news?
bwahhhhhhhhhaaaaaaa
you can't believe the tripe you type here , can you ?
CNBC says the companies simply refuse to hire because theyre racists and just trying to make Obama look bad.
20 years ago, this network would have been shut down immediately.
Indeed. It's disturbing how the majority of the major media outlets (ie where most sheeple get their "news" or daily fix of brainwashing) are complicit in the government's agenda. Whether it's beating the drums to go to war in Iraq or how gold sucks as a store of value, or how if we only doubled the stimulus everything would be fucking great, etc....
It's especially true now. MSNBC makes it clear, almost on a daily basis, that we are racists or xenophobes or hate-mongers, etc., if we disagree with the President's agenda, who by the way happens to be half-black.
Anyone paying attention saw this coming a mile away.
The sheeple don't realize how much of an oligarchy we've become.
not really a surprise since they're owned by fewer and larger entities
absent the pnzi they would be shutdown for lack of funding.
They are what they are , scared little whimps scuking TPTB cock to make a buck.
Leave them alone , it doesn't do any good to fixate on their kind.
I don't hate them but pity them.
It's not so much that Verizon workers felt confortable going on strike, but that they were afraid of how much the health insurance burden being dumped on them was going to keep increasing and how long it would take them to ever get back any of the other stuff the company was trying to take using the economy as an excuse. If you believe that workers can give and give and give while boardrooms and legislatures take and take and take, you don't really have the high ground (ethically or mathematically) from which to criticize Banana Ben or Teleprompter Hussein.
And if the higher costs mean higher prices, the customer will get the last word. Unless, like GM, the government steps in and gives them money extorted at the point of a gun despite what the customers want. Likely, this is where the Union gets its confidence from.
Then perhaps something should be done about health insurance costs or perhaps people at the top who provide no value can sacrifice something for a change. This model of continuing to squeeze people who work, so that those who do not work can have even more, cannot go on forever. You fools make it unprofitable, if not outright unaffordable, to work and then act surprised when work is not done.
You fools make it unprofitable, if not outright unaffordable, to work and then act surprised when work is not done.
Why should people want to. This is slavery.
Say what?!
Perhaps Mr. Chir's cell reception is weak, but it's tough to "cave" when you don't even show up for negotiating sessions and haven't reached an agreement yet.
"We have reached agreement with Verizon on how bargaining will proceed and how it will be restructured. The major issues remain to be discussed, but overall, issues now are focused and narrowed."
had the same thought
In 100 years we will be celebrating Labor Day as the one remaining day per year that any remaining laborers actually go to work and earn a paycheck (unless all ten of them go on strike that day).
Yeah I don't understand this recession. It used to be easy to get college kids to work for me for $10 bucks an hour. Now I can't even get them for $15 per hour, flexible hours, easy work, clerical and transportation, etc.
It is too easy to get fed around here apparently. No one has to work.
Two possibilities:
1. You're lying, like all pretend "job creators."
2. Inflation (of college education, of health insurance you don't provide, of taxes, of food, of energy, of housing prices, etc) has made $10 per hour a losing proposition. You can only go to the well of "I guess employees will take another cut or forgo a raise" so many times before it runs dry.
#3) nobody like to work for a total asshole.
Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
from Washington Post MENSA quotes.
They must have been premensal that day.
Go with the flow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_4jrMwvZ2A
...ironic, like Dick Army and a Fannie Mae I have another Frank, Dick, Bush and Colin, dial 911 for emergency, the Washington Monument (Huge Phalic) has a crack after Hussien and the Ass Monkeys raise the debt which is aborting labor. http://bible.cc/1_thessalonians/5-3.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA3ChGy1GSA&feature=related
Thankfully they went back to work, it was annoying when they showed up outside my building with all their chanting and protesting. It's not a Verizon office they were protesting in front of, it is a US Senator's office.
K-street parasite?
It's his local office that's in an adjacent building, not the DC office.
When they show up with bombs and burn the place to the ground we will know they are serious.
Can't wait!
I'll tell you the problem. My wife was offered a store management position were she works. The pay???
$10 an hour. She makes $9.50 right now. $10 an hour to take on all of the responsibility of scheduling, customers, orders, stocking, deposits, and a 50 hour workweek.
At my high school job at a mall store my manager made $32k in 1994. NOBODY WANTS TO TAKE A JOB WITH A TON OF RESPONIBILITY THAT PAYS LESS THAN WELFARE.
You'll work 50 hours and be way below the federal poverty line. The market has destroyed any incentive to work. Until jobs start paying well it doesn't matter if unemployment goes to 0, the country is still screwed.
The problem is corporations can't pay better without hurting earnings.
adr, if you really want to quantify it, after 911 the starting pay for a bomb checker at ''Regan National'' (lol the great deregulator that gave billions away for the political slush fund) was 26K, a local Net income of about 2 cents an hour, if not negative. lol. At Dulles, where the plane flew out of on 911 and smacked into the Deperatment of Defense, bomb screener turnover was running about 70% a year, at 20K to train new people to spot threats lol. Looks like Congress and the Executive Branch are obviously the threat. lol.
Ask the Truckers what happen to independent trucking. You want to stop the government in their tracks, get those spinless bitchez on their CB radios and see what happens. They alone could put a massive hurt on the political dragon. Hell, even now the new rules, to let Mexican truckers bring in the hurt, is on their plate and not so much as a hit of dissent from those silent bitchez.
I spoke with a pilot on a hop from D.C. to NYC, young guy, said he was making 19K to fly. I said, why would you even bother, he said he was going back to school to become something that pays. Well he ain't gonna pay cash up front for that now is he. Guy must already have serious debt, if we did not pay for his military training to become a pilot so he could figure out later what a dumb idead that was.
The borderless bitchez have done a fine job killing America from the inside. Ross Perot's giant sucking sound of the black hole ...Bitchez. No defense at all coming from the voice of labor. Home of the freaking brave my tuckus. More like pushover punk'd out flag waving whimps that fear government so bad they would not dare think to do anything but put the mark of debt on their kids until they themselves are homeless. Oh yeah, they are now. Paaaathetic.
I don't know who is driving these rigs , but they are a fukin disaster.
We have been run off the road and/or seen horrendous carnage due to these truckers.
A freakin nightmare , these goofy truckers.
...well Karzai, remember that Preacher and his wife, with seven of their own kids, that all got killed while driving their van, because a Mexican trucker was given a CDL from a company that was giving slush money to the Governor for the contract from the State? The Mexican trucker did not speak English and his CB was not working, so when others tried to contact him about his load that ended falling off and killing everyone, he just kept on trucking. I just tried to find the link on that investigation but it would take too much time to bring it up. It puts a fine point on the corruption though. The political NAFTA GATT etc... global borderless scum never wanted to use capital, they are short term killers loaded with debt and have proven it time and time again. The occult slaughter rule has been in play and the slaughter just keeps on trucking. That particular company was giving out CDL's at the expense of lives, to foriegn workers that they imported into the country because they were willing to work for less money. They busted that up but, here we are again. Why, why the hell do we allow debt and crossborder bullshit to even show it's ugly head still? I'll tell you why, American truckers well reflect the weak pathetic image of the beast ...Bitchez and they well reflect the voting public. So stupid and pathetic, people do not realize silence is equal with the greatest sin and you can't keep relying on a bottomline two party system that kills the preacher. At this point it's time for judgment to come upon those that have accepted the mark of the beast. It's time to lose your job for being silent and stupid enough to allow corruption to come upon you, like a Preacher's family under 18 wheels of the wine of wrath. You can't labor in darkness and it's time to stand fast and do no harm, it's not time to work for a negative rate of return. We must see this government and every last globalist idiot put down now or we will see our prophetic destruction.
From what I see, there is no more time left to avoid correction, it is about to come to this generation.
$10.00 an hour is less than what I made pumping gasoline in 1973. Then I was making $3.50/Hour x 4 (inflation) $14.00 per hour for a part time job just filling up people's gas tanks, taking the money and staying awake. Taxes are taken out of a $10.00 per hour job as well as on one in 1973. FICA, Federal Income Tax, State and local. It was much higher then. But then again, we are talking about a 17 Year old kid vs Adults trying to raise a family. Employers are angry that people won't take their $10 per hour jobs who have loads of qualifications because this is what a depression is all about. Wages are pushed down below levels more of more than 37 Years ago.
My Boss, all of 23, who worked 30 hours a week, showed me his pay stub from Jan to May 25th, 1973. He had made $27K so far that year not counting the $300 a week he made in cash from the vending machines. What 23 year-old makes a $150 Grand a year right now with a high school education?
If the minimum wage had stayed up with Inflation it would be $19.00 per hour. This meme that is passed around is that people should take these jobs that pay less in inflation adjusted dollars than 40 years ago with 10x the knowledge and skill, just to put more money in a owners hand and taking them out of the ranks of the unemployed but at a much lower wage base is about as stupid a thing I've ever heard. The employers that pay non-living wages to overqualified people are not reinvesting in the business. It's just more money for them and their management teams. $10.00 per hour is like $2.50 an hour in 1973. It's a "in your face insult".
You were doing better than me, I went into the Air Force at 17, August 1975, started at 368 per month (divide by 40 hours per week and 4.3 weeks in a month you get $2.13 per hour), after four years of double digit inflation was making a whole $879 per month as a Sgt. What a joke, everyone that was married with kids was on welfare, food stamps while in the service. There was simple interest inflation of over 50% in that hitch, compound would have been higher, I am too tired to do the math just now. It was a complete nightmare, the barracks were reserved for the junior enlisted who did not make enough money to own a car no less live off base so once you hit Senior Airman you were kicked out to fend for yourself, this was LA (Riverside actually) and four of us got together to share a three bed shack of a place. We still had meal cards to eat in the chow hall. Reenlistment rates were horrible for single guys, oddly as bad as it was though married people stayed on because there were no jobs to be had and no decent paying jobs at all in the civilian world. When I got out and returned to my home county the unemployment rate there was over 30% (northern California coast). I drew a whopping 76 dollars per week unemployment.
When it comes to decent paying employment it has less to do with economics than who you know, or more specifically, who likes you.
Yes, "...going on stike when there are NO jobs..."
You hit the nail on the head! Why is it millions of Americans are "out of work" and yet I have to hire a Mexcian to mow my lawn?
I read an article in the NYT describing people who refuse to take jobs under $50,000 a year b/c "I am worth more then that."
The system needs substantial reforms but all I see are more handouts....free stuff.......
perhaps your seeing it via the MSM media is more of a problem.
"It is also ironic that more time has been spent trying to figure out the impact of 45,000 Verizon strikers on NFP, than has been spent on trying to figure out what sort of a system we have where 45,000 employees feel comfortable going on strike when there are NO jobs, and management caves in to their demands."
Yo TD, your right-wing anti-union bias sometimes make you seem really schitzo and it totally doesn't jive with all of the ireverent, anti-authority, fuck-the-man, down-with-the-whole-corrupt-system schickt you spout here on a daily basis.
What's wrong with the Verizon workers going on strike? Good for them. Verizon is making money hand-over-fist and if they have millions for executive compensation why not share a little of that pie with the thousands of employees who actually run the place? Going on strike in the middle of a really bad economy? Sounds like balls and taking a stand for something you believe in against the man to me. Why not applaud these actions? ZH is always urging people to get up off their lazy asses and do something to fight the corrupt US oligarchy but when these Verizon workers do just that you insinuate they are somehow part of the problem? Your opinions don't always make sense and are frequently at odds with one another.
You need to ask yourself which side you are really on because you can't be against of the US govt-Wall St. Oligarchy and for the people at same time. Its an either-or situation man and I know you know what is right but you have to let go of your right-wing cold war indoctrination that has taught you to hate anything that smells faintly of socialism, or what I call "working together for some fairness so we all don't get fucked by the man".
Seems to me that TD is "on the side of" voluntary association and property rights. You know -- like freedom and that.
it really is simple enough that those who lobbied for, promoted and voted for, the likes of NAFTA, WTO, "normalization" with China, etc., were sellouts, sacrificing American citizenry's free market claim to local jobs. competing against monarchies, dictatorships and other non-capitalist systems subjects the US worker to an uncompetitive palying field. the reason of course was greedy labor arbitrage manufactured by corporations, unimpeded by politicians and their feeding troughs. the outsourcing, offshoring job-robbing is unconscionable.
these trade agreements will change one way or another, or the American people will rise against them in their poverty and anger.
If it were not for the ridiculous regulations, the labor costs could have been borne.
The assault on business is a multi-front war.
The question is why the Left wants to kill American jobs. There is no other interpretation.
those regulations make it even easier to decide to offshore, because there are lots of places with none - all the more moral reason to manufacture at home.
people get pride, purpose and sustenance with employment, shame, listlessness and poverty without it. the left likes its populace docile, and the right just wants the money regardless the human cost. both suck ass.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to call bullshit.
People doing make work jobs still know they are useless, and resent having to get off the couch to accomplish exactly dick in anything other than being a parasite to the producers.
The ever decreasing producers.
where did i say "make-work" jobs other than your imagination?
Sorry, I must just have Jobs Program on the brain.
And those regulations are never, ever going away which means those real jobs will never ever return. That is the truth that must be planned around.
I quit buying GM products after they caved to Labor, before Labor drove them into BK.
I went to junk yards for parts rather than patronize their parts suppliers.
I bet I wasn't alone
My wife wanted an SUV. I told her to pick anything, except GM.
Hmmm...inflation on the horizon, gas prices going up...better buy a new guzzler!
LOL...genius.
I'm selling off my fleet. My next project car will be a '50s Ford PU.
I may have to sell that free golf cart Obama bought me.
I know a guy with a narrowed ford 9inch rear, and a complete 351 Cleveland I can drop into it.
Do I sound like I give the smallest damn about MPG?
I'd bet there are no semiconductors in there ;-)
After the EMP, I"m still ready to haul hay. :)
And the authorities can't shut down my motor by remote control. It won't even be trackable by satellite, except visually, which is expensive.
No, but there are plenty in the diesel that brings the go juice to your vicinity.
If we get to tossing EMPs around, never mind pulling hay, find a mode of transportation that eats it.
Nope, most people who "can't poor piss out of a boot" don't.
I'm sure your giant hunks of metal will look awesome in the museum, but even they (and the pick-up) make more sense than a huge truck+camper shell with a shitty ride, no cornering ability, and a 0-60 that's measured in minutes.
The only use for a Winnebago I could ever think of was to just drive it to Cabo San Lucas, shoot out the tires at the beach and retire.
I will never ever drive a Prius or any other kind of future hood ornament on some grey hair's Lincoln's grill.
I prefer fast bikes...under $15k, 150mph, and 60mpg; the Lincoln, Prius, and your hotrods would quickly lose sight of me.
The money not plowed into gas and shitty auto transmissions (ever try finding a stick these days?) can instead be put into PMs.
I haven't priced old ford transmission recently.
I do have a couple of rebuilt Turbo 400s, and one emergency M22 manual for the 68 RS/SS Convertible Camaro.
Not a good zombie invasion car, but fun to drive.
Good luck with crotch rocket. I hope you don't lose any limbs to other's stupidity.
Crap, forgot to mention that in troubled times, finely machined steel is a PM.
I've managed to get through the first 16 years without throwing it down the road and I don't ride much anymore as the wife has pretty much the same concerns.
I like aluminum and titanium more, but yeah.
Don't smoke too many tires...it's an expensive habit. ;)
Not to worry. Congress is pushing for "jobs" to be "addressed" with the Super Comittee on deficit talks this fall. God help us all.
Hate to tell you this, but Labor Day is Monday, the 5th of Sept. not Friday the 2nd. Your lead is wrong. Milestones
Four day weekend except for those on a 99 week weekend.
my son is 30 years old. He and his friends are unmarried and have nevered worked more than 15 hours/week but maintain comfortable life styles with cars, apartments xboxes, cable, iphones and fast food for nearly every meal. Several lost jobs and now receive EBT food stamps and unemployment. they would never consider working hourly minimum wage jobs as long as they can "milk the system". Several are college graduates with large student loans which will never be repaid. Their labor is focused on getting as many freebees as possible. They should be called the entitlement generation. If the worse happens, they expect to move back home with full rights to make life hell on their parents arguing that it is hopeless to try and find work.
Thank you for that post of reality. I also had to inform those I love that if you live here, you work.
he is YOUR kid, fix it. don't come on here and whine to some geek fucker who is milking whatever he can get via scam or crime.
He is YOUR kid, fix it. You have not done crap to this day from the sound of it.
It is your kid, get him off my handouts.
30 yo is not "YOUR" kid. He's a man who is deciding to run his life this way. The gov't is making this available for adults to live in this manner.
WHY?
You know why. Because a weakened populace is easier to undermine, control and steal from.
that gives me great hope for the future
what sort of a system we have where 45,000 employees feel comfortable going on strike when there are NO jobs, and management caves in to their demands
I like this statement because it says people have had all they're gonna take and they ain't gonna take no more.
What you mean by management caving is unclear to me. 45,000 on strike means no fucking business activity. Demands? ...I think it's about non-slavery living wages. Fukk the greed of the pricks.
While there are lots of unemployed, there are not lots of unemployed who could replace the Verizon strikers without months of training. Verizon management can keep the company functioning for weeks or months of a strike, but it is at the cost of dropping maintenance and installs on the floor. They have no bandwidth to train strikebreakers at the same time.
all I see on this strike is that the landlines part of the biz is going away and that group of workers should as well. No way should they get the same benefits when their part of the biz is shrinking.
I side with V on this, but the other workers should settle this with the landline peeps.
If true , then any mgmt that doesn't pull back in the part of the company that is shrinking should be tossed out.
Had to do it many times in the past. You try to move peeps to other growing parts but it may not be possible to move them all.
Thus some have to go.
I know this sounds condescending and insensitive to those that have been mistreated by mangement and those corporations that abuse their rights. However I think there has to be a realization that your employer owes you nothing whether public or private. Generally I think that in most instances productivity and dedication is rewarded by mangement. Not always but in most cases, yes. I know there will always be tyrancial places to work but I do think we have some control over our own destiny in a free society. I think it all depends on how powerless we feel our situation is. It is not easy with family obligations I know this. Many people have overcome great obstacles to achieve great wealth or build monumental businesses. It is not easy and most fail. I believe that unions by themsleves do some good but the pendulum has swung far to much the other way. One of the reasons for GM's bankruptcy is the many were feeding off the few. This in turn made the company less competative and product quality was grossly effected so much so, that it changed it's primary business model from a vehicle manufacturer to a primary lender. In its efforts to keep up with union demands and former employee obligations it had little to no choice. Just something to reflect on.
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