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It Just Went From Bad To Far, Far Worse As Germany Says Italy Is Too Big For EFSF To Save, Refuses To Carry Euro Bailout Burden
Remember when we said (yesterday) that Germany will soon balk over the fact that it is pledging its entire economy to bail out an insolvent Europe? Well, that moment has come.
Dow Jones just hitting the tape referencing Spiegel
- German Govt: Italy Too Big For EFSF To Save - Spiegel
- German Govt: Doubts Whether Tripling EFSF Would Help It Save Italy
- German Govt: Italy Must Make Savings, Reforms To Exit Crisis - Spiegel
- Italy Debt Guarantee Could Raise Doubts Over Germany's Finances - Spiegel
- German Govt: EFSF Should Only Help Small, Mid-Size Countries - Spiegel
As a reminder, yesterday's stopgap announcement by the ECB to expand its SMP purchases of secondary market Italian and Spanish bonds was merely as a precursor to full EFSF monetization until its comes fully online in September (or sooner) in a vastly expanded format (between €1.5 and €3.5 trillion).
If Germany is now against this, which appears to be the case, it pretty much means, well, game over.
Add the uncerainty over the unwind of the Europe rescue "gamechanger" as one of the more naive CNBC anchors said yesterday, and Monday is now guaranteed to be a bloodbath.
As for those saying China will gladly step in and fund a $5 trillion EFSF shortfall, they may want to read the following article from Reuters:
Italian Economy Minister Giulio Tremonti said on Thursday that Asian investors are reluctant to buy Italian bonds because it sees they are not being bought by the European Central Bank.
Speaking at a news conference, Tremonti also said it would be desirable for the central bank to follow the lead of the Japanese and Swiss central banks in taking expansionary steps to tackly the euro zone's crisis.
"I note that the Bank of Japan today launched quantitative easing and the Swiss cen bank cut rates to zero, we are waiting for decisions if possible, but desirable (from the ECB)," Tremonti said.
When you talk to Asia they say: "We don't understand what Europe is," he continued. "The second point is that they say 'if your central bank doesn't buy your bonds, why should we buy them"?
P.S. Time to unwind that Bund short we suggested yesterday. In fact, if true, it is time for a big rush to safety.
h/t London Dude Trader
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top 3 google searches today as of a half-hour ago...
1. lucille ball 2. i love lucy 3.phineas and ferb across the 2nd dimension
america says so what!
your looking bad numbers. those results are only due to users clicking on the logo of the day... open the eyes
Unless..we can put steroids on steroids and take the surreal to the next level
Never under estimate the power of normalcy bias.
D.P.
I, too, have tried in vain to warn all those around me. Only a couple have listened. Most think I'm off my rocker. Sadly they will learn all too well. And you're right, even the prepared have not prepared enough. I caught on much later than many of you. My PM stack is small. Guns n ammo stack is quite large though ;) As I write this I'm in line at the ATM to pull out the max allowable amount for the third time this week.
All I can say is, Lock 'n Load Boys! It's gonna be REAL ugly.Best of luck to everyone.
It may get ugly , but the NWO was going to be even uglier. After the storm a rainbow will appear.... ending global socialism.
Great post. I feel the same way. I protected my family and especially my parents. For that I'm gratefull. Just wish others around me, especially those that were already hit by housing crisis had listened.
Needn't be. All it takes is to take the real economies of the world away from the obnoxious, pompous financial elites & their politician puppets & turn it over to the "free market". How do you do that? Take it away from the Keynesians & turn it over to the Austrians like Ron Paul & company.
intelligence.
One of the best summations I've run across is this (from http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+1:20-33), though I'm no follower of any organized religion.
Proverbs 1:20-33New International Version (NIV)
Wisdom’s Rebuke20 Out in the open wisdom calls aloud,
she raises her voice in the public square;
21 on top of the wall[a] she cries out,
at the city gate she makes her speech:
22 “How long will you who are simple love your simple ways?
How long will mockers delight in mockery
and fools hate knowledge?
23 Repent at my rebuke!
Then I will pour out my thoughts to you,
I will make known to you my teachings.
24 But since you refuse to listen when I call
and no one pays attention when I stretch out my hand,
25 since you disregard all my advice
and do not accept my rebuke,
26 I in turn will laugh when disaster strikes you;
I will mock when calamity overtakes you—
27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
when distress and trouble overwhelm you.
28 “Then they will call to me but I will not answer;
Footnotes:they will look for me but will not find me,
29 since they hated knowledge
and did not choose to fear the LORD.
30 Since they would not accept my advice
and spurned my rebuke,
31 they will eat the fruit of their ways
and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.
32 For the waywardness of the simple will kill them,
and the complacency of fools will destroy them;
33 but whoever listens to me will live in safety
and be at ease, without fear of harm.”
That's not a "summation" of anything.
Nah, it doesn't feel good at all.
First time I've prayed in years- was to Abrasax rather than Jehovah, but it all comes to the same thing in the end. Just goes to show that you should never drink and doom. Good luck to all, and keep your powder dry. See you on the other side, when the time comes.
Until it's too late, I'll still bugging everyone here, but just wanted to insert the bonne chance before it was too late. Surprising how it was like a punch to the gut when Sacrilege suspended the comments for a little bit- came in from having a bonfire with the lady and kids, and thought armageddon was upon us.
I appreciate all your thoughts- even the stupid, racist, and doomer ones. Keep 'em coming. As long as we can still read them, we're still at least a little free.
Wonderdawg,
You woke up to the danger and prepared because you at least entertained the idea that it could happen in your lifetime and that it could happen to you. Without that trait, you wouldn't have either. Each and every person with their heads in the sand dismissed all the evidence, and there was ample evidence available for them to see, because of this simple human trait. They all said "It can't happen to me."
The interesting thing about market history is that everyone who is wiped out in such events thinks "It can't happen to me" "This time is different," "It won't happen in my lifetime" and "The experts say....?"
Well guess what ZH? You are now proven to be the experts. You were right and academics and talking heads were wrong
Smiddy, excellent points. In fact, I was recently having a conversation with my sister. She said, "I just can't wrap my head around what you're saying."
It's human nature to believe that recent history is the way things have always been and always will be. I get that. But after 2008, we had proof that things do change. However, the PTB stepped in and saved the day (again, TPTB created this perception with the aid of the MSM) and so many people have been further conditioned to believe that "THEY won't let it happen". It's frustrating to try to fight this condition, but that's why sites like ZH are such a life-saver, because those of us who understand the big picture need a place where the truth is discussed openly and ideas are exchanged. TD and many of the regular commenters have been a blessing and help me keep my eyes on the ball. Thanks for doing your part.
Krupp
Achtung, bitchez.
Deutchland Uber alles, if they're smart. Let the Euro die.
1470 US millionaires paid no tax in 2009
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/192544.html
US millionaires are now paying about one-quarter less of their income in federal taxes than they did in the mid 1990s.
Its the fucking tax code that allows this - not the 'millionarie.' Fucking envy driven drivel. Some one makes a lot of money and some how the goberment is entitled to their share - fuck you - its called extortion. Mafia want-a-be crime by envying pricks.
Loopholes always favor the slum lords.
I wonder why that is.
Spell it "scum lords" and you have your answer.
So true Rodent, JW as head of the Politburo is going to insure justice prevails. Just because we abandoned what got us here, I will damned if I ever submit to the fucking Marxist.
Ricky Bobby ,
Top 10% of America's farms collect 75% of federal farm subsidies http://www.ewg.org/farmsubsidies
Rich getting Richer
http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/matt-hadro/2011/06/29/anderson-cooper-again-hits-bachmann-over-farm-subsidies-lead-segment-cnn
For the second night in a row, Anderson Cooper opened his regular news cast Tuesday touting a story about Michele Bachmann's hypocrisy in benefitting from federal agriculture subsidies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvf_vXrLZGs
Rockefeller Gets Farm Subsidies From Taxpayers
****************************************************************************************
So I take the time to share the Truth with People and I am a Marxist?
Because I believe people, ALL People should pay their fair share?? I am a Marxist?
I pay my Taxes.. I enjoy Tax Breaks.. But I do NOT pay $0 Taxes and I do NOT recieve Government Subsidies.
I EARN MY MONEY! The Government does NOT Give me my income.
So for those of you that are protecting YOUR Government Hand Outs! I can understand why you would not refute or try to refute the FACTS and instead would be forced to try to personally attack me.
Everyone should pay their fair share.
Everyone that does NOT! have a Multi-Billion Dollar Lobby is FUCKED!
The whole idea that “The World aint fair and that is just the way it goes!”
That time is coming to an end, people are going to pay what they owe! One way or at the end of a rope! I prefer the hanging route personally!
you're a retard if you pay taxes; shouldn't be proud to support this system and enjoy getting ponzed.
am more equal... ,
Let me know how I can help you understand or share this information.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOwZwkhFemQ
***** “Over the last ten years, China has mounted the biggest challenge to the U.S. manufacturing sector ever seen, threatening producers of steel, chemicals, glass, paper, drugs and any number of other items with prices they cannot match. Not coincidentally, the United States has lost an average of 50,000 manufacturing jobs every month during the same period.” *****
http://blogs.forbes.com/beltway/2011/02/14/intelligence-community-fears-u-s-manufacturing-decline/
so with being stranded in the Middle of a Planned Wealth Transfer the only reasonable answer that does not Hurt "We the People" or the strength of the Country going forward and dare I say would in fact allow for the funds to rebuild our infrastructure!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11110
http://www.youtube.com/user/bstill3
And what would happen if 50 container cranes fell into the ocean ?
Fuck China and all the China apologists.
The helicopter down in Afghanistan has Chinese fingerprints all over it thru Ahmadunnajerkoff in Iran.
Many manufacturing jobs have been taken over by robots, robots that are being "employed" overseas.
How could manufacturing come back to the US when everyone in the US is piled with debt? Wouldn't this really be the same as what's happening elsewhere, cheap labor cranking out crap widgets for consumption outside the country of manufacture? Oh, but wait, just about every other country is also hemorrhaging. Seems that increasing food and energy prices (as a percentage of income) is really hitting the brakes on the world's economy...
The infrastructure that you're begging to rebuild was meant to operated on $20/bbl oil, and never can scale to the demands of perpetual growth... Nope, dead end here too.
Damn straight, but then again those "millionares" are holding exactly what again? Is it paper. I presume they wnt to eat and they are going to need some security soon.
Human defaltion is the only way out of this one.
Unfortunately, I'm sure they own more than their fair share of PMs and farmland.
I know only two millionares and they are the most cityfied people in the world. They own big houses on lots that are completely covered by the house. So no, I don't think so troll.
You rashly assume that they own only one house....
The mafia was never that bad. If they made you money then you needed to kick in some tribute to the higher ups, but its only because they fixed a fight and told you who would win.
When has the government ever made you any money or told you how the fight would end?
People liked the mob because they had hard and fast rules and everyone knew them. Lines were ever only crossed once. The protection money really was against that numbers racket you were running oin the side or that questionable thing you were doing.
The mafia was the law for the lawless.
Those were the days when there was at least some honor among thieves.
Todays thieves have NO honor, and they are running the country.
I know first hand that the idiots working for govt are a bunch of wannabe wiseguys. That is WAY worse than real ones. if it were wiseguys there would be enough for anybody who contributes, an '2 behind the ear' for broken rules, period. All we can do now is watch the theatre... Popcorn anyone??
Well, there was that whole POMO schedule thing.
The mob went into banking because the profits were better.
as in The Threepenny Opera by Bertolt Brecht
"When has the government ever made you any money or told you how the fight would end?"
You and I don't matter a drop. Ask this question of the top at the heap (ask banksters and "defense" contractors).
Precisely - tax incentives should be the most direct form of economic stimulus there is. The money goes directly to where the great economic masters want it to go. The fact that is does little to nothing to actually better the state of the land tells you just how rotten and self-serving things are at the top.
So you are saying that the millionaires had nothing to do with writing the tax code?
The only ones making any real money these days are the people we bailed out and are actively trying to slip away. Seize it all and hang these dick lickers in the town square. The only people that would argue with this are the ball lickers up under the boss's desk hoping to be a bankster one day.
Surely you jest?
And how, my dear friend, does the tax code get influenced? Certainly not by the individual to which you are responding.
Your user name says it all.
Most of the millionaires I know never work. They inherit
Who do you think makes the tax codes? The fucking millionaires.
It is rather shocking how so many believe that they are entitled to a share of other people's income simply because other people make more money than them. Theft by government is still theft and those who support it are still criminals.
Why should people pay money to a corrupt government?
Your bullshit of cherry-picking data points and using half-truths is tiring. Your ignorance of the tax code is pathetic.
The truth is, most of those millionaires likely had huge losses from the 2008 market crash and used the loss carryovers to offset 2009 income. You are extremely ignorant or dishonest. Why don't you find out how much taxes these millionaires paid from 2003-2008?
Thanks for saying it, someone had to.
Yep for once i'm with dodgy boy.
Your ignorance is even more profound; the loss carryover is exactly the kind of loophole that needs to be eliminated.
Why should I subsidize shitty investors?
You're dumb and your momma dresses you funny, who the f do you think you are that you can say "Why should I subsidize shitty investors?"
Stimpy, you blithering eeeediot!
1. Net capital gains include loses, it's not a loophole dumba$$, it's arithmetic.
2. If there were no carryovers, the "artificial" segmenting of income derived from capital gains between years would cause malinvestment.
3. You're dumb and your momma dresses you funny.
LOL...how about you don't write off ANY losses...and pay more attention to where you put your capital, Lambchop?
You still don't get it, stimpy. Maybe after you invest yourself you will.
edit: even with loss carryovers these folks are subsidizing YOU and your kind in the long run, never the other way around. ... worthless parasites
So which one are you... "your kind" or "these folks"?
Arrogant much?
Why should I subsidize shitty investors?
Well, that's what you're doing when you're sending more money to the government via taxes.
Yes, loss carryovers should be eliminated, along with the rest of the tax code. Taxes should be a uniform DOLLAR AMOUNT (not percentage of income) for each individual, since everyone is supposed to receive equal treatment and equal benefit from the government.
The only meaningful comparative statistic is after tax income. Everything else is meaningless crap.
Enough of the class warfare, envy bullsh*t JW. Pray tell, what percentage of the federal taxes do that 1% of the "most evil" of all people pay in taxes? Back to huffington postr/moveon.org for you JW.
Oddly enough, names like Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi appear on that list. What a coincidence....
For about 2 years the Democrats had total control of Congress and the WH. For about 14 mos of that it was a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate.
They Could Have Raised Taxes Anytime They Wanted. On Whoever They Wanted.
They didn't.
Just because you're a millionaire does not mean you have any taxable income. ZIRP removes one hell of a lot of taxable income from people with interest bearing assets.
They got smashed in 2009.
How can they pay income tax on no income.
Would that every one of us had only been extorted for a similarly fair share, ie., zero.
And if each of those 1470 paid $10 million more in tax each...$14.7 billion. Wow everything's fixed now! I'm not saying you're wrong but that is peanuts. There are bigger problems.
JW. are you suggesting all Millionaires are crooks? Sounds like it.
And as such, you should suck balls because even if you get your redistributed wealth a-la the millionaire crowd, they will still possess the lion's share of the wealth in less than 10 years . Meanwhile, you will be living in your parent's basement.
And by the way, my son thinks skulls and swords are cool, he's 4, how old are you?
Yahtzee!!!!
Well, I'm completely fucked.
All my money is in Korean Won.
The value of the Won follows the value of the Euro.
Motherfuckers!
What's a boy to do?
http://geraldcelente.proboards.com
I don't advise you violate mum. Apart from that...have a cold beer. If you buy 'won' you know you've won!
As in
#wonning
(couldn't resist)
If you've seen won, you've seen 'em all.
WonderDawg is a "won"-a-be.
Must be a won-won situation.
Won for oobrien, and won for WonderDawg.
oh oh ...brian
Won more time?
And I think to myself, what a won-derful world!
oobrien, @ 12:27
NO FIAT CURRENCY is safe..............................PERIOD.
Sorry for your disatrous implosion.
You could turn your money into Vietnamese Dong. Then you will be long Dong. Which is better than being short Dong.
go long dong and you'll end up with a 10" rooster called dang dong.
Germany has a habit of saying no until they say yes, we shall see if it is different this time.
They have a habit of saying "die" alot too. Just sayin'
The germans say 'Die englander pig'
the japs say 'Die for the emperor .... aaiii!!' as they die in a hail of bullets.
like in the movies
is that what u mean?
wang, @12:28
WOULD you, put your countries debt into a 132% GDP, for Italy?.
IF they change their minds, Merkel, and all who make the agreement are in serious, serious,trouble.
One of the FEW remaining solvent, profitable nations opn planet earth,sacrifices itself for THIS?.
Uh,NO.
I agree but it's Merel or the Greens and based on how she has managed this so far she talks tough and then caves, we shall see.
@wang 14:39
You have the likely outcome. They will cave 15 minutes b4 Asia opens on Sunday. Let Italy sweat and make giant behind the scenes concessions. And if the Angela puppet gets voted out? "Meet the new boss; same as the old boss!" The Greens are just a phony front started by the NWO in the late 1960's.
*doop*
timid frauliens who like being seduced and told warm hairy armpits are so excitingly 'teutoburg', they go wild for the Italian legions. Bunga bunga to them too.
This must have something to do with the US downgrade. Why else would this news come up right now ?
The world is so upside down and fucked beyhond belief that it wouldn't surprise me to see treasuries rally on monday even though they where the asset that got downgraded.
Also, Japan is probably getting ready for some serious intervention considering it is the only major that has no bad news this weekend.
Yea and that country only has 3 melting down nuclear reactors and where animals are being born with no ears.
Not that there's anything wrong with that . . .
Ears are so last century...
melting reactors have been priced in for months, that didn't happen on friday evening ffs.
Forget ears. What about being born with super powers?
This will be the short term dollar/bond rally ahead of the next American intervention.
>>This must have something to do with the US downgrade.
No, Spitz, actually, it doesn't have anything to do with the US. This is what I was talking about in the China thread. Here in Europe, things are far more fucked than in the US. The massively overvalued € aside, the mechanisms of "Europe" to deal with a crisis of the magnitude of Italy and Spain being beyond US-levels of bankrupt (which we have know about for well over a year) simply do not exist.
The ECB does not control much of anything, not much of the gold, that belongs to the sovereign nations themselves: Portugal 421.5 tons, Netherlands 674.9 tons, etc. The ECB only has 553.3 tons or 30 billion USD worth. If you think Portugal will give up its gold horde for a bunch of ECB paper, well, I hope you would be wrong but anything's possible with politicians.
The national identities within Europe will agree to cooperate but will not allow truly painful sacrifice of its citizenry for the well-being of another nation. Germany has its own elections to consider and the "political will" often bandied about can be replaced with Right-Wing nationalist parties at the next election cycle and "poof" the European projekt will vanish like so much smoke, and the EUR will be good for stoking fires alongside the USD, especially after Germany closes all of its nuclear plants and becomes even more reliant on Russia for energy.
Bumm
Ist "boom" auf Deutsch. This was supposed to be a reply.
thank you my friend...bumm! also...ka-wumm!
Das Kaboom!
At least it is between male and female, the third gender. Must not be a completely testosterone style Kaboom.
Der Kaboom!
Ich bin ein Mainzer medchen
boom goes the dynamite
Big PLUS for a Family Guy reference.
Moose go "boom", scram you dupe.
this has all the makings of a World War
I was just thinking the same thing...not a happy thought.
What a fine mess we make ...where is the time to fight this world war... If the world is ending in 2012.. and what happens to my FB and ZH account when the world ends..Any Idea??????????????
Jes so we wins and gets to write the history books again. No more FB but ZH forever.
It is your destiny.
and wars have to be financed...war bonds...who'd buy 'em? SJGR right back where we started.
Singularity Indeed...
This will be ugly! Maybe the can is finally going to explode instead of being kicked!!!
That "can" is really an IEFD (improvised explosive financial device)! Kick it again, congress-critters!
Wait ... Wait ...
Did China say it would not step in the breach????
jal
China is broke herself. They are trapped in the ponzi like rest of the world. Can we say regime change?
So now that Harry Potter Advertising billboard " It all ends" makes a lot more sense.
WESTERN CIVILIZATION IS DYING!!
Won't someone think of the holy Judeo-Christian children and bomb some more 3rd World Brown Countries....
JESUS DOESN'T MIND US STEALING IF IT KEEPS THE WEST ON TOP!!! (I actually read this one on a MSM website response when Greenspan stated the Iraq war was all about oil).
/s
funny you should mention bombing brown countries, the state dept has issued a warning for all us citizens in Syria to pull up stakes and get the hell out of dodge.. kinetic humanitarian military action in said brown country to commence in 5...4...3...
Apparently, if the US is still the world's most powerful country when Armageddon kills us all, then technically it wins. In your face, China!
Except for: notice there's no mention of any kind of "Eagle" in Revelation...
Last I looked I didn't see more brown faces there than here. What are you implying?
Any yank still holed up in Syria is either a terrorist recruit or stupid.
Just imagine this scenario... let's say you are in vacation to see your family in Syria a few months back when all of this starts... then you decide to stay holed up till it all ends... after all, it shouldn't be that long... it wasn't that long in Egypt or Tunisia...
But then it doesn't end... and every day the killings increase... so you decide to stay holed up because you fear of being killed if you go outside... well you would still be holed up and stuck in Syria, even if you wanted to leave.
Some might be stupid, some might be ``freedom fighters`` (trying to overthrow that SOB Assad) and some might be just stuck there...
Looks like Syria is about to get some Hope-N-Change in bombs kindly donated by the Peace Prize winner.
They're making up for the thousands of years of the brown countries killing Europeans - Ottoman Empire, Arab-Islamic invasions of Europe, Ghengis Khan, Xerxes
Oh fuck, not another one you "white people stealing from brown people" people
Where on gods green earth do you cockroaches come from? I hope you just choke yourself to death because you are worthless.
Get a job loser and stop blaming the world for your problems.
Thank you man, for the best laugh of the morning considering the overall news.
Good ole boy Bobo...never lets reality get in his way!
You really do like to follow me around.
I had no idea it was so easy to control you.
uh...have you been living under a rock for the last 500 years?
double post
KeyserSoze @ <12:33 > ,
Uhuummmmmmmm.Think Jesus has HAD the last word, and last I checked HE did not require a surrogate speaker.
Looks like we are in for a fun week. Now, all we need is some bad news from China and Japan to top it all off.
Then where do we run DF? Could it be the"Tradional" relic that one can't eat :-)
I'm not dropping my shorts for Bernanke.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FN53dqV-L.jpg
I didn't drop my SPXU going into the close. Don't attempt it at home though. 9 of 10 times that move is a loser.
Patiently holding a 3x bear fund for months is not looking so foolish now, either. People forget that plain old options lose value over time too. Leverage ain't free.
Patiently holding a 3x bear fund for months is not looking so foolish now, either. People forget that plain old options lose value over time too. Leverage ain't free.
Arrivederci bitchez!!!
Germany finally got scared that all these lazy club med types were going to drag them down with them....cut bait and run!
Bitchez, bitchez...!
The end of the Euro is nigh !
Mount the lifeboats, I got mine already !
;-)
it is not too big if italy pledges it's sovereignity to the reich.
A Reich under American occupation, by the way.
Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Obama.
I buy it if you promise just EIN Frankenstein. No cut n paste job please!
as long as it is not china. at least that is what dimon and blankfein wish. china and russia are lurking, hanging around the back door. russia is ready to offer the ruble as the new petro exchange and china has 3 trilliuon dollars in cash to deploy.
this is real interesting.
As corrupt as the US is, even fewer would trust the Russians and Chinese.
trust has to be earned.
Governments are never to be trusted anyway... they are not even "people" in the conventional sense.
I (may) trust people but never apparatuses and their apparatchiks...
Oh, I don't know- right now I'd trust the Russians about as equally as the US, too bad they are so damn morose.
Ganz Gut FS! Fur unsere US Fuehrer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dnj62cbu4jc
Ich bin ein Obummer...
Bingo!!
Hard to be sovereign when there is an army in your yard.
In the previous marriage of Deutschland and Italy, the Germans did the heavy lifting and the Italians put their hands in the air.
I guess memories could fade.