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It May Be 2008 All Over Again, But There Is One Key Difference

Tyler Durden's picture





 

The financial press has been inundated with articles comparing what is happening in global markets now to events in the latter part of 2008. Sure enough, the surge in Treasurys from 100 to 143 in the last two months of 2008 following the Lehman bankruptcy is most comparable to the move in the same security from 122 to 140 in the two months since the beginning of July 2011. What is disturbing is that the bulk of this move has happened after the August 2 debt deal, and after the announcement of QE2.5 or "ZIRP through mid-2013" by the Fed on August 9. Additionally, stocks have also traded in a pattern very reminiscent to what happened during the first round of the Great Financial Crisis, but the lock up in capital market liquidity, especially in Europe, may be the most obvious parallel between the two time periods. That said, there is one key difference between 2008 and 2011. Bill Buckler, in the latest edition of his Privateer, demonstrates what it is...

A Race In Opposite Directions:

 

How scary is it? The best illustration comes from the $US Gold price. The “price” of longer-term US Treasury debt has risen by 14.75 percent since the beginning of July. Over the same period, the $US price of Gold has risen from $US 1482 to its August 19 spot future close of $US 1852. That’s a rise of $US 370 or 25 percent. Yet US Treasury debt and Gold are polar opposites in any sane evaluation of the financial system. Treasury debt is the foundation of the global monetary system. Gold is the pariah of the global monetary system and has been locked out of it in any official form for four decades.

 

With all the comparisons to the events of 2008 which have been appearing in the mainstream financial media, this comparison has been all but totally overlooked. Cast your mind back to the carnage of late 2008. During that period, almost everything was sold off. While it is true that Gold did not fall nearly as far as did most of its fellow “commodities”, it is nonetheless a fact that in the two months between mid September and mid November 2008, Gold fell from about $US 920 to $US 700. That’s about 24 percent.

 

There were two financial assets which boomed in late 2008. One was Treasury debt, the other was the US Dollar. While Gold and everything else was falling out of bed, the trade-weighted US Dollar index - the USDX - soared 21 percent from 73 to 88.2 between early August and late November 2008.

 

Compare that to what is happening now. Treasuries are soaring but the US Dollar is, at best, flat. And Gold in terms of EVERY major paper currency has gone ballistic. This time, things do look different.

 


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Sat, 08/27/2011 - 17:00 | Link to Comment Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

They blew their wad in 08, no appetite for more bailouts.  I get the feeling the EE will engineer another false flag to try and rally the serfs against another boogeyman.

 

Didn't Larry Silverstein take over the lease for the old Sears Tower?

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 17:02 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

But you would have to hire union demolition-types in Chicago. 

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 17:06 | Link to Comment Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/7743

Nah, they'd probably outsource it for cheap, and pay em with cyanide laced plastic rice.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 18:01 | Link to Comment spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

fuck all your bearish goldbuggers!!!

groupon bitchez!!!

/sarc

http://azizonomics.com/2011/08/27/groupon-unsustainable-parasite/ 

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 18:16 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

That was actually quite funny to me. +1

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 18:32 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Maybe we get groupon to push precious metal discounts....

Hey, nothing wrong with a little hope...

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 18:46 | Link to Comment spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

Hahahahaha groupon pushing PMs with the margins they get?

That's about as likely as Bernanke NOT printing.  

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 08:32 | Link to Comment espirit
espirit's picture

Fed may not be inept as most may believe. Their playbook dates well before 2008, even before Bubble 2000.

Serf wages are the real target, in an effort to increase export.

http://www.clevelandfed.org/research/PolicyDis/pdp21.pdf 

BTW- Long my precious physical PM's.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 19:14 | Link to Comment Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

true that.

 

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 00:19 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Fuck Groupon.

Buy silver.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 03:58 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I wouldn't fuck groupon with William the Bastard's cock...

Call me old fashioned but I prefer the yellow stuff....

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 09:55 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Dear Flakmeister ,

 

It is not cheating if Gold never finds out.. dont limit yourself.. live a little.. taste the fruit, participate in the dance.

 

My Very Best to You and Yours as Always, JW

 

P.S. Monster Boxes are Great! becuase they come in a Box! the reason I say that is becuase my first 500 did not come in a box and I bought 100 oz at a time.. when I was I love with the idea but not in love with the physical yet.. Trust me.. Monster Boxes.. will make you so very happy.. and for the little things in life.. oz.'s of Gold are just to, too much of a tip.. and I am not walking around with a cut in half gold eagle?? that for some reason irks me.

 

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 10:20 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Yeah.... I think I got one hanging around here somewhere.... :)

 

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 18:44 | Link to Comment Iwanttoknow
Iwanttoknow's picture

Technically this is not a reply.This is my first post on ZH.

When Roosevelt said that he was a zionist and asked whether Stalin also was one,the communist leader responded that he"was one in principle,but he recognized the difficulty".(Yalta-the price of peace-S.M Plokhy--page 315-Viking(penguin group-2010.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 19:22 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

Welcome to ZH and thanks for your contribution.

Facts can sometimes be unpalatable.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 19:47 | Link to Comment SMG
SMG's picture

When you guys use the word "zionist" to refer to the Oligarchy, people tend to confuse that with jewish people, which is incorrect.    They Oligarchy is more correctly refered to as Lucifarian or Illuminati.   If you really care about helping, it would be great if you used clearer terminolgy.   Thanks.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 19:52 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

All Oligarchy are Zionist, doesn't matter what ethnicity they are. The color of money is the only thing that matters to them.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:02 | Link to Comment SMG
SMG's picture

All I'm saying is the Zionist term is often confused with jewish people, and when the people with torches and pitchforks are looking for someone to blame, the term Lucifarian or Illuminati avoids any confusion with jewish people.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 09:48 | Link to Comment tamboo
tamboo's picture

mmm yeah nothing satanic about the talmud.

http://www.talmudunmasked.com/

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 10:00 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

what we have learned from this little back and forth exchange is!

and I can vouch for this as well.

You can bash anyone you want.. as long as no one thinks you are reffering to a Jew..

here is what the Jews think about Zionists! I guess these Jews are Secret Nazi's like me.. shhhhhhhhhhhh dont tell anyone..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5dsNvcNY7Q

looks like 300,000 - 400,000 self hating Jews who LOVE Hitler along with me.. secretly of course!

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 10:04 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

for my more hardcore brothers.. watch this and then grasp the idea that I am communicating to you..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrnoR9cBP3o

the more people you can reach and change the mind of.. the more good you are doing.. other than that you are just working on your own ego.. we care more about progress than our egos.. or we should..

"a spoonful of suger helps the medicine go down, in a most delightful way."

Changing Hearts and Minds, that is the Job!

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 12:05 | Link to Comment Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

Actually, all you are doing is trying to confuse further by assigning the crimes to a name or group that could NEVER be identified and diverting attention from Zionist Crimes against the world.

That will work much better on the Yahoo and MSM boards.  It will be promptly rejected here, as it should be..

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:04 | Link to Comment augie
augie's picture

I'm glad there is a discussion regarding this terminology. Until i watched "the ring of power" I too was fooled into thinking zionist equated with the jewish people. It's amazing the more you learn the easier it is to see how the zionists have kept us divided for so long. 

 

Ring of power doc:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w-A54h_GQ8

 

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 21:56 | Link to Comment Cliff Claven Cheers
Cliff Claven Cheers's picture

Don't waste your time.

Lots of claims, but no evidence.  Pure BS.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 00:25 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

What's important to remember here is that there are those out there that wish to destroy the common man's freedom.

Get a grip, buy silver.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 01:27 | Link to Comment Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

 

 

The overused "buy silver" mantra or any rhetoric about stacking physical metal (exempli gratia: keep stackin'!) comes in handy when you don't have anything intelligent to say, but you still want to feel some acceptance from other, like-minded doomer goons.  

Within the internet "doomer" community, any rhetoric about "beans, bullets and bullion" is basically the online version of a secret handshake.  It immediately lets other doomer goons know that you're a whacked-out weirdo like them.  It's a bit like going to a Tea Party rally, and holding a sign that says "I want my country Back!" It's no different than holding a sign that says, "I WANT TO FIT IN, HERE!"     

*LOL*

 

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 01:42 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I am no doomer.  Life will be better without the corporations.  And why do you stereotype me so?  I am no libertarian.  I do not support any party. 

And who are you, so high in your tower to tell anyone else what is happening?  Do you like having the government run your monie?  You do understand that the income tax is illigal?  You do understand that America has a higher per capita prison rate than any other country?  You do know that 45 million people are on food stamps?  One out of every four children?  You do understand that corporations use slave labor?  You do know these things, right?

There are big problems out there, and we, your dommers, are trying to discuss them, so to solve them.  You want to stereotype us.  Why?

The oilgarchs have stolen your soul, you smiley face hitler wuss.  Get a life, stop harassing people, and grow up.

Besides, silver is monie, and when you start something, why stop?

Buy silver.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 11:14 | Link to Comment eisley79
eisley79's picture

The first rule of TROLL CLUB, is dont feed the trolls.

1.) He is mad (and jelly)

2.) He wants attention, which is actually like holding up a sign saying "LOVE ME, EVEN IT HURTS, JUST LOVE ME"

3.) All his posts proves he doesnt have a clue about anything

4.) Best thing to do is ignore them, eventually they get bored and move on to somewhere else, for their attention seeking.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 03:36 | Link to Comment Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

I prefer Guns, Gold, and Groceries.

Thank you,

Tinfoil Hat Wearer

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 04:02 | Link to Comment theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

Piss off, you've been torn apart on so many threads now you want to appear supirior to someone

Keep stakin'

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 09:39 | Link to Comment css1971
css1971's picture

Have you noticed how all of your posts are about making you feel good about yourself by pidgeonholing individuals and then denigrating them through the groups you claim they represent?

Clearly you just want to be a part of those groups, as you said, to fit in. Clearly, this is all about you. You are projecting your feelings and desires.

Don't worry. We understand.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 12:26 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Perfectly played +

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 01:32 | Link to Comment The Man in Room Five
The Man in Room Five's picture

Damn 5 hours? tl;dw

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 09:43 | Link to Comment Inibo E. Exibo
Inibo E. Exibo's picture

5 hours?  Seriously?

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:58 | Link to Comment indygo55
indygo55's picture

Some of the confusion may come from the Iranians who always refer to Israel as the Zionist state.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 23:42 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Some of the "confused" attended the Glenn Beck rally in Israel:

Beck will be supported on stage by the actor Jon Voight and mayor of Jerusalem Nir Barkat. The audience will be overwhelmingly comprised of American Christians who have bought package deals covering flights, accommodation and access to three Beck events in Israel this week. Many are Christian Zionists, whose ardent support of the Israeli state stems from the belief that the "ingathering" of Jews to the Holy Land is a prerequisite for the second coming of the messiah. However, their insistence that Jews must then convert to Christianity has alienated many Israelis.

Among the audience will be some of the 81 US Congress members who are visiting Israel this summer as guests of the American Israel Education Foundation, which is an affiliate of the pro-Israel US lobby group Aipac.

The purpose of the delegations – which comprise one-fifth of Congress members – is to "learn first hand about the evolving security situation in the Middle East, the deep challenges facing Israel, and the role the US can play in the region during this time of uncertainty," according to Democrat Steny Hoyer.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/23/glenn-beck-israel-rally-face...

of course, there will be some confusion from the followers, as Beck's Mormon religion also includes a Zion, a "new Jerusalem" to be established in Jackson County, Missouri.

so many Zions, so little time. . .

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 03:39 | Link to Comment Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

"However, their insistence that Jews must then convert to Christianity has alienated many Israelis."

If the Israelis don't believe it is going to happen, then why would they give a rat's?  No, the alienation has another source, which I am wont to understand.  Non-zionist, conservative Jews (as hard as they are to find) are some of my favorite people.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 14:21 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

perhaps an answer lies in the two factions of Zionism, the Christian sort, the Jewish sort - both have a narrative that needs to use the other for their own "end game" - Christians need the story of Zion for the Jews so that Christ can come back & smite the Jewish folk for happily ever after, and Jewish Zionists need the monetary support of the nationstate Christians vote in - a symbiotic parasitical relationship that ultimately is killing the host(s), and taking us all down with it. . .

just to note, I have good friends who identify as Jews, though not religiously - I've zero problems with folks taking up identities offered but have resistance to those who seek to control and abuse the many to feed the few.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 19:16 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Jews are G_d's Chosen People, not Christians! Why would the master want to convert to a slave?

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 19:18 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 11:54 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

MOReziONS.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 17:55 | Link to Comment jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

Funny, I read a book about America and the Middle East since Independence and there was a mention of Zionists who were mostly Christians who wanted to create some homeland for the Jews in Palestine and fulfil some notion of prophecy, but most Jews seemed to not even care for this land.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 04:20 | Link to Comment macholatte
macholatte's picture

All Oligarchy are Zionist

Are all Zionists oligarchs?

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 04:36 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Shhhh...

you'll wake up the zionist anarchists....

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 05:07 | Link to Comment moregoldplease
moregoldplease's picture

From other threads I thought all the problems were caused by the Boomers

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 05:58 | Link to Comment macholatte
macholatte's picture

All oligarchs are Boomers.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:11 | Link to Comment Iwanttoknow
Iwanttoknow's picture

I do not imply that Zionists are jewish people.Zionist are Khazars who converted to judaism in 7th centutry,as an opportunistic move.You are right.Zionist form  only a part of the Oligarchy.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:27 | Link to Comment SMG
SMG's picture

You and I may know what Zionist means (establishment of a world Illuminati capital in Palestine/Israel), but most people don't.  Even in your statement you see how the Zionist term causes confusion.   First you say they aren't Jewish, then you mention the conversion to Judiasm.  See that's confusing.   If I were you and and really cared about stopping the Oligarchy and bringing them to justice, I would stop using the term Zionist and start using the terms Lucifarian and Illuminati.  It is much clearer and doesn't bring jewish people into it.  Thanks for listening.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 23:29 | Link to Comment Iwanttoknow
Iwanttoknow's picture

I did mention that was an opportunistic conversion.I do agree that the real goal is to bring the oligarchy down.Zionist pretend to be jews but are very likely luciferiean.However,jews have an obligation and a self interest in exposing them.Zionist have caused untold suffering to jewish people and will continue to inflict suffering on jewish people,by hiding behing them.Zionist are not jewish but a very important part of the illuminati.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 23:50 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

How do Christian Zionists fit into your story?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0ZIJdN05QE

Joe Biden says he's one.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 00:33 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Considering the only "Jew" that goes to Bohemian Grove is Henry Kissinger, I think they fit in quite well.

Take the Illuminati down:  buy silver.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 00:53 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Not all Jews are Zionists, some Christians are, etc. etc.

But I'll agree with the "Illuminati" naming argument - and reserve the right to believe there are others even more nefarious hidden in the shadows. . .

Clue folks: if you can SEE them and know a NAME, they're not the 'droids you're looking for - stop making figureheads your target, do some more research.

As to your "buy silver" - oooh never fear sir, you and many others here, including JBravo, arguing the toss *cough* last summer made the case for me - money has always come further down my list of *needs* - but after the case was made, I gladly jumped in to "kill the morgue" or whatever shiny crusader story anyone likes - I "went all in" because it felt like a continuation of my long-held stance, if it's fucking with a system, count me in!

so cheers sir!  and the rest of you who hold the devil's metal on principle!

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 01:53 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

He who bears the light is called many names, and his torch, too.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 03:20 | Link to Comment Mac1492
Mac1492's picture

god damn i love zerohedge great info oozing with sarcasm and movie references  really this site is absolutley brilliant.... but god damn people argue about some fucking stupid shit ...

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 03:35 | Link to Comment Mac1492
Mac1492's picture

sometimes fuckers get so cought up in words and clever fucking dialage on their way to  describing  the fucking forest that they loose site of the trees.... my generation is fucked we will never out prosper our parents, and our parents will suffer knowing that they illequipped us  for the suffering that is ahead of us.. the boomers fucked up the hippies got to drugged out and now we live in an america that has lost its identtity... buckle the fuck up and when shit hits the fucking fan remember to turn to ur parents an grand parents and say thank you..

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 04:04 | Link to Comment theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

and to not give them a single ounce of the good stuff

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 13:19 | Link to Comment Chump
Chump's picture

Shit is getting real.  Don't waste your energy being pissed at people you can hopefully lean on, and vice-versa.  Things will be hard enough as it is.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 14:24 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

'fess up, you get paid per "fuck" - amirite?

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:59 | Link to Comment Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Ya, welcome to ZH IWTK.  Some people hear the word Zionist, and prefer to brand you an antisemite, rather than digest your argument.  A large part of the scumbag Oligarchy are Jewish, and the Israel AIPAC lobby uses our politicians like dimestore whores, but I don't think any of us "hate" an entire race or religion of people.  Divide and conquer I guess.

 

Thanks augie, now I have to spend 5 hours watching another documentary tonight!

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 21:34 | Link to Comment SMG
SMG's picture

Which is exactly why you shouldn't use the world Zionist.  

You are wrong, the inner circle of the Oligarchy are NOT Jewish, but Lucifarian.  Some of the names like Rothschild sound Jewish, but they practice a Lucifarian religion where they beleive they are the god.  They are the ones who control the lobbyists that control our politicians.  The Illuminati are always trying and blame jewish people for their misdeeds, (see blood libel, WWII), and that is how they win.  Get the useless eaters fighting each other, Jew vs Christain, Black vs White, Iran vs Israel.  US vs China.   When in reality it is all a puppet show controlled by the Illuminati to have us kill each other, and not fighting them.

Freedom fighters unite!

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 00:58 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Zionism, Shionism, Khazaarism, Is-Realism? In the world of finance, politics and genral matters of huge global interest and unrest, out Zionist bros and sis's abound. Zionisto and Zionista. I think they are best known by "how" they are rather than "who" they are.

I think when the cabal recruits, they are very open to races/cultures etc.

They are very specific about personality type, the appropriate degree of psychopathy, usually a HUGE weakness, influential parentage and the willingness to follow orders.

I think we all know a few Zionists.

And this is 2008 on sympathetic resonance steroids. A standing wave of inccredible proportions is building, with all the increased amplitude (price swings, volatility in general).

When this potential finally goes kinetic, it will be something. And nwo it is clearly due before September 20th. 

Taut strings, FTW!

Vivek

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/08/24/precursor-03-bottom-falling-out-still-still-and-a-gander/

 

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 03:38 | Link to Comment Mac1492
Mac1492's picture

ur fucking retarted 

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 03:48 | Link to Comment ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

 

 

I Just Wanna......

NOTHING

There, wasn't that easy?

 

Lucifer brought the light and the Truth set the finders free.

The Book got thrown at the rest who thought everything was free.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 03:51 | Link to Comment Mac1492
Mac1492's picture

so u celebrate festivus?

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 04:12 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You are wrong, the inner circle of the Oligarchy are NOT Jewish, but Lucifarian.  Some of the names like Rothschild sound Jewish, but they practice a Lucifarian religion where they beleive they are the god.  They are the ones who control the lobbyists that control our politicians.  The Illuminati are always trying and blame jewish people for their misdeeds, (see blood libel, WWII), and that is how they win.  Get the useless eaters fighting each other, Jew vs Christain, Black vs White, Iran vs Israel.  US vs China.   When in reality it is all a puppet show controlled by the Illuminati to have us kill each other, and not fighting them.

 

I read this...

Took a bong hit...

Read it again...

Then it made sense...

At least I thought so...

Ah fuck, I forgot...

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 12:09 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI6Qdoq679I

 

Driving home from my meth lab
Realized something had changed
Looked in the sky
Saw with my eye
The moon was following me

Where's the shadow government when you need it?
Where's the shadow government?
When it's a bad, bad world
It's a bad, bad world


Sifting through the confetti
I picked up my broken phone
Looked in the crack
Somebody waved back
Just sitting on their somebody throne


Up the library steps
Up the library steps
Here comes
The Humvee

Crawling out of the flophouse
I saw the mayor stealing my junk
I doth protest, citizen's arrest
Now my body's in his trunk

 

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 18:43 | Link to Comment Barbar
Barbar's picture

I'm more curious about the zionists who f-16 Gaza Strip for breakfast. They must be stray-buddhistafarians gone ronin. 

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 21:39 | Link to Comment spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

zionists are people who believe in an ethnocratic jewish homeland in palestine. the khazar connection is very dubious. the evidence from haplotype is that there has been very little genetic migration in and out of judaism. perhaps a few of the khazar kings and aristocracy integrated, but there is no evidence that the overwhelming majority ashkenazim are not middle eastern. 

i criticise israel/zionism for its foreign policy, and for the fact that it is effectively an apartheid that denies human rights to much of its arab-palestinian demographic. that is a fact. i believe in a one state solution where everyone has equal rights; that is anathema to many people on both sides, but its the only solution which will work in the long run.

you don't have to invoke questionable/possibly anti-semitic stuff about khazars to criticise israel/zionism.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 22:28 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

All you sonsabitches need junking for being so far off topic.   But I'm too lazy to do it.  

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 22:42 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

One for you Rocky.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 22:47 | Link to Comment Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Exactly right, Rocky...

Occasionally I think I have clicked on a religious site by mistake...

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 00:52 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I think it is always pertinent to discuss that there is an entity out there that is starting, or has started, a New WOrld Order.  Whatever you wish to call them, they are there.  They are the families of the Herberts and Walkers, the Piecrces, the Rockefellers and Morgans, the Rothchildes.  Are they all Jews?  Christains?  No, but they are all part of the big con.

Take them down:  BUY SILVER.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 08:33 | Link to Comment Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

L Hendrix... I agree with this part... "Take them down: BUY SILVER."

But, about a bunch of super wealthy families working in perfect harmony to achieve 'a new world order'...?

This defies human nature. Perhaps a few families can work for a short time on a particular goal but at some point disagreements would arise, as happens in most families, and they would go their own ways toward acheiving a/the goal.

Think about it... These people have the worlds biggest egos...and people like that are not want to take advice or orders from anyone.

Not saying you are wrong because I heard Rockefeller in a rare PBS interview say that he was proud of his work on globalization... But I doubt they could pull together over generations.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 11:54 | Link to Comment Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

I agree with you, Snidley.

I don't know what the attraction or fascination is for folks who believe in conspiracy families working in concert across generations.  These otherwise intelligent believers require no evidence to support their theories.  The belief must be validating something for them.  Or, maybe it's just fun for them.

(Say, Snidley.  Before I forget to ask, when are we getting together for our next bigfoot sighting?)

 

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 12:25 | Link to Comment Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

The evidence surrounds us in our everyday lives and those with insight are not waiting for "evidence" to present itself in the form of documentation.  it's not so hard to put together, we are on a course, a trajectory, and of the few of us that see it, it is even fewer that speak out against it.  This is because they fear people like you will label them.  That's unfortunate..

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 00:26 | Link to Comment Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[...and those with insight are not waiting for "evidence" to present itself...]---Max Hunter

Then you'll love our Bigfoot sightings.  Join us.

 

 

 

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 14:39 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Snidley, a case could be made for those families Mr.LH listed having continuity of rulership over time, yes?

Even a shallow bit of research shows at least a century of Bush family "covert agenda" and the Rockefeller's go back much further. . . as do many "banking class" families. 

I don't really subscribe to the ONE overall agenda, but I do believe many of these historical bloodlines work behind the scenes, and many have the same end goal, albeit with the occasional hiccup & detour - all one need do is look at who funds the show (war profiteering, fiat creation, usury), who benefits, who directs the story memes. . . the same names recur frequently, as do the same belief systems guiding them.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 22:51 | Link to Comment SMG
SMG's picture

I know, sorry.   In a way it is on topic, because the Oligarchy set the up the crash 2008 and the one coming in the near future.

Seems like alot of troll/agents who keep bringing up this stuff.  I feel lilke if I just let it go,  the oligarchy, who wants to make my life miserable/kill me gains ground, in what I think is one of the last bastions of truth in the world.

To me it really seems like they are trying to:

1. Post racist stuff on here to disrupt/discredit ZH.

2. Try and deflect blame from the Oligarchy.

3. Confuse the idea of who the Oligarchy actually is.

Those three ideas are about killing truth, and I feel like ZH and the truth is worth defending.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 12:20 | Link to Comment In Fed We Trust
In Fed We Trust's picture

We should take shout Glen Beck who I'd now hosting a show in ISreal?

Isn't us his job to confuse people and hide the true face ov the enemy,

According to Glen, it's the leftist that are causing all the problems.

It ain't the Jews, the bankers, the illuminati or the Luciferians ( new to me)

It the NWO, it the LEFTIST.

Go suck some Jewish dick you fucking clown, Glenbeck.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 12:30 | Link to Comment In Fed We Trust
In Fed We Trust's picture

Let's not forgot Soros is a Jew. His parents died in the holocost.

He never presents himself that way.

You have Glen beck constantly blaming Soros for the worlds problems .

Soros funded media matters funds attacks on Glenn beck ," requiem for clown" google that shit.

In the meantime Glenbeck is ISreal sucking some Jewish dick and slapping them high 5s on job well done on the 911 coverup

It's a a fucking circus act.

Call em Leftists, bankers ,liberals , illuminati, Lucer.... But never call them a Jew, unless it's Hanaka

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 12:36 | Link to Comment In Fed We Trust
In Fed We Trust's picture

And the newest Ziionist jew to the club is Matt drudge.

Controlling people's thought and investment trades will headlines hand picked by Soros.

Google Soros theory of refexitivity " and see how Matt drudge is the feedback mechanism for Soros to control the entire media world.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 22:58 | Link to Comment SMG
SMG's picture

You are wrong.  Israel is an Illuminati puppet.  The Jew vs Arab conflict is just a tool of the Illuminati to cause strife.  Forget Zionism, it's a tool of distraction to deflect blame from the Lucifarian Oligarchy, the people cause all of our misery.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 23:28 | Link to Comment SMG
SMG's picture

Exactly why when we talk of the Oligarchy, we should always use the term Luciferian or Illuminati, to get the word out to everyone.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 00:41 | Link to Comment Mugatu
Mugatu's picture

This entire Zionism/Oligarchy thing blows balls.  I get "tired head" just reading it.  Reminds me of that time the channel got stuck on Oprah.  Let me make it all very simple - its about money which equals power.  Who gives a shit if they drink blood, act like Vampires or any other kind of creepy thing that old rich fucktards do.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 23:14 | Link to Comment keep the bastar...
keep the bastards honest's picture

sure.However re 'questionable' about 40% of their mitochondrial DNA passed down through the mothers is gentile. There is genetic evidence also in Y passed down male line. They seem to care about it. Easier to be glad to be alive like the rest of us.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 11:02 | Link to Comment optimator
optimator's picture

Difficult to forget the constant brainwashing, but one must constantly remembef there is a difference between:

Jew      and     Zionist

Nazi     and     German

Commie  and  Russian

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 22:47 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Oh great, another troll dragging the Jews into everything. Wonder which agency this one represents.

Non sequiter much?

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 19:41 | Link to Comment eureka
eureka's picture

What does "EE" mean? Who is/are EE?

Thanks.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 19:58 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

EE = Evil Empire, which basically comprises the entire banking cartel headed by Benocide the chairsatan, and Timmy the little cock sucker that can't.

The EE is responsible for gold and silver price suppression, oil Brent / Crude spread manipulation, and endless paper printing to satisfy blow, hookers, and high priced pads out in the Hamptons.  Of course, citizens in developed nations are facing piercing price increases for basic food such as flour and corn, but that's just an unfortunate side effect that doesn't need to be brought up - Again.

Hope that answers your question.

 

 

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:00 | Link to Comment eureka
eureka's picture

Many Thanks.

EE then, is synonymous with the taxpayer sponsored faith-based casino capitalism bankster hedgefund fiat and other paper PentaGun-CIA-and-consumer-backed collectivist corporatist fascist empire.

As opposed to the non-hegemon, individualist republic which once was.

Thanks again.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:13 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Yes, but I'd replace "casino capitalism" with "crony capitalism".

 

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 21:04 | Link to Comment Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

I like both definitions :-)

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 23:09 | Link to Comment hidingfromhelis
hidingfromhelis's picture

Good point, yet either way, the house always wins.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 23:27 | Link to Comment Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

here is a good example of the EE doing what they do best.

Obama’s Energy Starvation Policies Killing Even More Jobs

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Obamas-Energy-Starvation-Polic...

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 03:10 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Really?  I have 02 ZO6 in storage. I also own a CL-550 & an F-430.  I'm waiting for my 458. I hate Lamborghini's

 

             I have 4 large AUD/USD. Got any ideas? That gbp proxy could work? No?

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 08:37 | Link to Comment Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

You also have a paper bag over your head... just sayin... in case you haven't noticed.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 10:42 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

@DR

Yeah.... that's why the number of rotary rigs in operation is at all time high

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=E_ERTRRO_XR0_NUS_C&f=M

or footage drilled is approaching record levels

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=AER_ERTW0_XWF0_NUS_MF&f=A

or how crude production is modestly rising

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS1&f=M

Not to mention Nat Gas production is rising

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/n9010us2m.htm

and how refining capacity is at a 29 year high

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=2010

Cut out the ideologically driven bullshit...

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 12:31 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

LOL!  What was the cost to deliver those "modest rises in production" again?  Yeah, cut out the ideology indeed. Too fucking funny.  The energy and capital costs to deliver a 2% rise in production YoY are now 20% greater.  Yeah, just like Carlie Sheen said - "winning".

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 12:42 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Sun, 08/28/2011 - 12:03 | Link to Comment LstrzMnyn
LstrzMnyn's picture

That's right--ExxonMobil and energy companies in general have a God given right to destroy the environment! I forgot. Darn Citizen First ruling, right?

Maybe entertainment a neat little mental trick called "discernment" wherein, rather than being a zombie sponge, an individual weighs the evidence presented against facts relavent and source of material.

In your example: BIG OIL says "Obama kills oil jobs"+continued tax breaks and subsidies to said BIG OIL+stagnant oil consumption and relavent job growth in a zero-growth economy=propaganda directed at republican/conservative minions likely to devour any anti-Obama sentiment.

Being on the wrong side of peak oil, maybe rocketing production isn't the best idea in such a bad economy anyway.

(Of course your EE may be the ultimate source here, and if I misunderstood you and that was your point, my apologies. Apology aside, you should expound on such a point, if that is the case. Given the material, are the oil companies the EE or is it Obama? Or both?)

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 12:12 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

What does "EE" mean? Who is/are EE?

Economic elite.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 23:26 | Link to Comment Living_Stone
Living_Stone's picture

Brother Rection,

That avatar looks comfortingly like a masonic apron.

S&F

Livie

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 04:36 | Link to Comment BadKiTTy
BadKiTTy's picture

People rarely bring game to an end of their own volition.

Expect another bailout, then another, then........

Next up, house refinancing across the board

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 05:40 | Link to Comment macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

 By Matt Taibbi:


 The idea behind this federally-guided “settlement” is to concentrate and centralize all the legal exposure accrued by this generation of grotesque banker corruption in one place, put one single price tag on it that everyone can live with, and then stuff the details into a titanium canister before shooting it into deep space.

 

 

Obama Goes All Out For Dirty Banker Deal

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/obama-goes-all-out-for-dirty-banker-deal-20110824

 

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 08:08 | Link to Comment Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Worth reading for the FED quote alone. 

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 10:14 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Matt is the BOMB!!

Matt is a Team Player!! and NOT! their Team! OUR!! Team!!

But Matt is a secret Nazi.. him and Bernie Sanders BOTH!!!

All those Jewish Banksters they are always trying to get!

I know because I am as well a Secret Nazi.. trying to get the Lobbyists and Lobby Whores.. which are mostly Jews as well!

and! let's remember that my being a Secret Nazi.. along with matt is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more important that the Trillions being stolen every year.

Focus! on what's important.. just like the corporate media wants you too! it is un-American to do otherwise.

 

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 12:13 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

All hail the toxic sock!

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 17:01 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

WTF. Gold is still shiney.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 10:17 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

LOOK! cossack55 !!

I have told you before! on multiple occasions!

1. YOU CAN NOT!! EAT GOLD!

2. It only takes $5 Bucks to get it above Ground and seperated from the overburden.

Now go buy netflix! before I put you in a timeout!!

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 17:02 | Link to Comment jo6pac
jo6pac's picture

Nothing to worry about I bought gold below 700.00 and hold nothing else. Veggies are coming out the garden with enough to make until next spring. I'm sure 0 and friends will fix everything just in time. SURE

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 17:06 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Bill Buckler seems to have a real knack for making good calls.  He is worth listening to.  I would encourage Tyler (or the Tylers) to mention him more often.

Whether you average price for gold is $700 (as a replier above said) or whether it is $1300 will make very little difference when all of this is "over".  He who has the most ounces (physical only) will be a winner.  And NOT just by keeping up with inflation.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 17:15 | Link to Comment jo6pac
jo6pac's picture

Yep, and yes physical and enough to live on for some time.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 22:41 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Bill Buckler gave ZH a good reaming a while back for publishing a very large portion of his newsletter.  I guess cutting back to a mere snippet has been condoned.  I've subscribed to The Privateer for over 10 years and his work is what has kept me on track and focused.  Those 12 pages that emerge fortnightly are well worth the subscription!

 

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 00:36 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Dos he have good stock picks?  Did he pick Chipolte, Amazon and Apple?

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 12:46 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Stock picks?  Are you serious or did I miss the sarcasm?   The Privateer doesn't even mention stocks or any other "investment" vehicle.   Since gold/silver are not investments, they don't count.   The publication would be rather disappointing to you I'm afraid.   It covers the world view in broad economic and historical terms.    Macro, not micro.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 23:15 | Link to Comment wandstrasse
wandstrasse's picture

DCRB, I am in physical PM, too. >90% of my possibilities in a relative view.. in an absolute view it is more like a joke, but still better than nothing when TSHTF.

He who has the most ounces (physical only) will be a winner.

This is right, but think about it twice, please. Who has the most ounces in a post fiat world?

ZHers? Ron Paul followers? Sprott? Owners of the FED/Rothschilds? The worldwide plutocrat elite? I do not know, but my guess are more the latter ones than the first ones.

When fiat really collapses in a sudden move, a large part of the population will starve and/or kill each other in civil/world wars. But for the survivors wait exactly the same leaders.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 08:50 | Link to Comment Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

wandstrasse... Many fiat collapses have occured in the past but few were accompanied with the sort of lawlessness that you believe is coming.

Not saying it's impossible, just not likely to happen everywhere at once.

Soverigns will devise new currencies based on PMs or PMs plus a basket of commodities...

A return to 'real money' must happen to avoid a repeat of what we are about to go through. Placing infinitely expandable fiat in the hands of men, any men, is a recipe for disaster... as we are seeing now...

There is no chance that the system and men that created this debacle are going to fix it. The debt is too great and they are only making matters worse by bailing out bankers and spend thrift soverigns...heaping more debt on top of unsustainable debt.

Jim Grant, Jim Rickards, James Turk, Max Keiser, Mish Shedlock, Ben Davies, Lew Rockwell, Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, Bill Murphy, and many, many more see what is coming. Be right and sit tight...

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 17:09 | Link to Comment bernorange
bernorange's picture

Tradition!

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 17:30 | Link to Comment lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

..... or, the 1800's !   the Wild West is making a come-back .     guns, gold & silver ......... but, we need FREEDOM to go with it to make it complete !

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 17:41 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

That might come with it as the extensive supply chains shut down. Either we get more freedom than most people care to have (or can handle)or we see it disappear for quite some time. We are at a crossroads for sure. Shame we got sidetracked like this... we needed this time to invest into science (alternative energy, space program, etc.). Rather, we glorify thug athletes, idiot movie stars, dumb-ass economists, etc. Some would say we deserve what we are about to get. I say "fuck you" - I never subscribed to this mess in the first place. But, I know I will have to pay anyhow. I do so for my children. Always enjoy your posts lynnybee... hoped onto your post to say that!

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 17:58 | Link to Comment lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

no.   repeat after me :  NO !   ..... no you will not pay / it is called fraudulent debt incurred under a fraudulent government that you had nothing to do with !   IT'S A SCAM & YOU ARE NOT INVOLVED.    

EVERYONE / REPEAT AFTER ME :   NO !   MY ANSWER IS NO !    I WILL NOT PAY, MY CHILDREN WILL NOT PAY, & the government & bankers can go to hell .      I think they used to call that protesting in the 1960's .     I remember a time when NO ONE TRUSTED THE GOVERNMENT !    What the hell happened ?     How did the citizenry get so complacent ! 

It is called 'odious debt' .    I learned it right here on ZEROHEDGE .

 

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 18:27 | Link to Comment oldman
oldman's picture

I hope that you have arranged for a supply of 'get out of jail' cards

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 18:58 | Link to Comment Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

What happened?

Simple. The same group of people who didn't trust the government then is, right now, either running the government or is on the recieving end of government benefits.

A monthly check, paid for by someone else, changes your point of view very quickly.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 22:16 | Link to Comment mkkby
mkkby's picture

What happened was gov learned not to draft people.  Only have wars with people who volunteer. That was the only reason people got out of their complacency and protested -- they didn't want to die in a jungle.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 02:18 | Link to Comment Milestones
Milestones's picture

Being a draftee from the 50's I can hardly concur. The worst mistake made in the past 40 years was stopping the draft. When it stopped support  for wars stopped-- ma ma's little boy wasn't going to get hurt. That was the start of the "ME" generation. I got what I wanted.      Milestones

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 15:00 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

but Milestones, surely you can understand why a mother, or father, who genuinely loved her child would fight tooth & nail to keep that child from being sent to the horrors of warmaking, particularly if it is on the behalf of corporate war profiteers & petty nationstate rulers stealing resources from other nations? 

why the vitriol for a parent who doesn't want to see her child torn apart, mentally & physically, for a fairytale of "patriotism" when it's so obviously nothing more than colonialism, same as it ever was.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 20:12 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

The worst mistake made in the last 200+ years was STARTING the draft. You can thank Bonaparte for that one.

If America hadn't had so many cannon fodders, she would never have been able to wage all the stupid, costly wars that she did and WW II probably never would have happened. WW II was the direct result of Wilson's entry into WW I to protect the Anglo-American bankers with a million fresh cannon fodder/troops. If France and England had needed to make a REAL armistice with Germany, there would have been no reparations, Wiemar inflation or Hitler or repayment on the many war loans to the NY banks. The Rothschilds bet the right way on that one too, just like they did at Waterloo. There's good reason to suspect that the Rothschilds even have a big part in the decision of Wilson to go to war right after his second inauguration (he ran on the platform that he had and would keep the US out of the war).

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 22:43 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture
Odious debt

In international law, odious debt is a legal theory that holds that the national debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation, should not be enforceable. Such debts are, thus, considered by this doctrine to be personal debts of the regime that incurred them and not debts of the state. In some respects, the concept is analogous to the invalidity of contracts signed under coercion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odious_debt

When a despotic regime contracts a debt, not for the needs or in the interests of the state, but rather to strengthen itself, to suppress a popular insurrection, etc, this debt is odious for the people of the entire state. This debt does not bind the nation; it is a debt of the regime, a personal debt contracted by the ruler, and consequently it falls with the demise of the regime. The reason why these odious debts cannot attach to the territory of the state is that they do not fulfill one of the conditions determining the lawfulness of State debts, namely that State debts must be incurred, and the proceeds used, for the needs and in the interests of the State.   Odious debts, contracted and utilized for purposes which, to the lenders' knowledge, are contrary to the needs and the interests of the nation, are not binding on the nation – when it succeeds in overthrowing the government that contracted them – unless the debt is within the limits of real advantages that these debts might have afforded. The lenders have committed a hostile act against the people, they cannot expect a nation which has freed itself of a despotic regime to assume these odious debts, which are the personal debts of the ruler.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 22:51 | Link to Comment Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Good catch Rocky...

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 20:18 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

That would be substantially all of the US Treasury debt incurred since the Korean War.  Very little of it was spent to actually provide defense for the American people.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 09:18 | Link to Comment smore
smore's picture

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/08/what-is-debt-%E2%80%93-an-intervi...

What’s been happening since Nixon went off the gold standard in 1971 has just been another turn of the wheel – though of course it never happens the same way twice. However, in one sense, I think we’ve been going about things backwards. In the past, periods dominated by virtual credit money have also been periods where there have been social protections for debtors. Once you recognize that money is just a social construct, a credit, an IOU, then first of all what is to stop people from generating it endlessly? And how do you prevent the poor from falling into debt traps and becoming effectively enslaved to the rich? That’s why you had Mesopotamian clean slates, Biblical Jubilees, Medieval laws against usury in both Christianity and Islam and so on and so forth.

Since antiquity the worst-case scenario that everyone felt would lead to total social breakdown was a major debt crisis; ordinary people would become so indebted to the top one or two percent of the population that they would start selling family members into slavery, or eventually, even themselves.

Well, what happened this time around? Instead of creating some sort of overarching institution to protect debtors, they create these grandiose, world-scale institutions like the IMF or S&P to protect creditors. They essentially declare (in defiance of all traditional economic logic) that no debtor should ever be allowed to default. Needless to say the result is catastrophic. We are experiencing something that to me, at least, looks exactly like what the ancients were most afraid of: a population of debtors skating at the edge of disaster.

And, I might add, if Aristotle were around today, I very much doubt he would think that the distinction between renting yourself or members of your family out to work and selling yourself or members of your family to work was more than a legal nicety. He’d probably conclude that most Americans were, for all intents and purposes, slaves.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 18:12 | Link to Comment mt paul
mt paul's picture

you are only as free

as that

which you can 

walk away from ....

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 19:40 | Link to Comment Mauibrad
Mauibrad's picture

Indeed.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 22:45 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

That's why I don't see farmland as an asset!   Not until governments at all levels leave people the hell alone.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 17:10 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

How can anyone cite the rising cost of treasuries without mentioning Fed buying?

It's like bidding on your own auctions at Ebay and then declaring that your goods are worth 100x more than the real market would ever pay.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 17:22 | Link to Comment GoldBricker
GoldBricker's picture

What he's saying is that gold and treasuries appear to be correlated, when one should expect exactly the opposite. If Buckler explains why he thinks this is happening, it's not in the excerpt.

But it could be as you say, that Fed purchases serve to keep bond prices high and rates low. The presumption of Buckler's argument is that the gold price is not subsidized, on the contrary, so we must conclude that bond prices are manipulated to the upside.

This is very old news to ZH readers, but it's useful to have someone point out a particular situation which cannot last long, just to give us something to watch.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 17:37 | Link to Comment narnia
narnia's picture

the central bank in the US is printing money to buy treasury bonds.  it is perfectly intuitive that the price of treasuries (on supply of government debt funding) and the price of gold (on currency debasement) would both go up.

other central banks in the world are also printing money to buy gold.  that's a good explanation for why gold has gone up more than treasuries, although a direct correlation has many factors.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 13:01 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

And you can take the 14% / 25% ratio as an indicator of the futility of the monetization.

Would you use a condom that was only proven 56% effective?

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 18:06 | Link to Comment Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

Capital flight from Europe is driving alternatives higher.

 

But a reality like that will pass well over the heads of most of the new knuckle-heads that blabber away on ZH these days.

I wonder where the old crew went?  Who is John Galt?

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 18:21 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture

"the new knuckle-heads that blabber away on ZH these days."

Huge regurgitation,often tedious. Gad, nostalgia after barely 2 years.

I like everyone here.  Some when they're coming, some when they're leaving.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:01 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

It's the price of fame.  Similar thing hapened at the Roubini blog as the last melt down approached. As more new fringe elements showed up, more of the established 'early adapters' either departed or clamed up.

ZH is an absolutely amazing site, but trying to take it in is akin to trying to drink from a firehose...especially if you have a real life away from your computer.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 22:49 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ Kayman,

I liked YOUR comments on bearings a while back.  I would disagree somewhat when it comes to the mass market pieces (for car wheels), but would agree re industrial (BIG) bearings, though I have little expertise there.

I like almost everyone here.  Anyone interested in my blog send me a gmail at my name for the link, as I publish it under my own name.  Promise to behave!  Most of my 200 readers are from ZH.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 18:36 | Link to Comment Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture

Many of us are here. We just don't care to comment anymore.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 18:54 | Link to Comment Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

You know what, that sounds like a plan.

Just reading ZH content is probably healthier.  Thanks.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 19:17 | Link to Comment Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

When they do it is like watching a Romulan ship decloaking...

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 19:29 | Link to Comment CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Not to be all fan boi or anything, but CheekyBastard was my favorite ZHer of yore ... I figure ZH is too important to not read for any finance/investment industry professional so I am confident CB is still around if s/he is still alive. LondonBanker was another (IIRC).

I thought it odd that folks contribute very insightful stuff and then disappear, but I eventually decided that unless those same folks are at the top of the food chain in their respective organizations (or fully independant) the "boss" may have put those same folks on a short leash when it comes to posting on ZH.

Just pontificating; I could easily be wrong like that whole top-ticking Steve Jobs call. Those pics that came out after looked awful. I am good at being wrong actually, but I make it a point to learn when I fsck up.

Regards,

Cooter

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:05 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Agree about cheeky.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:22 | Link to Comment CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

In all humility, I come to ZH not really knowing much about something but knowing its important and wanting to learn. I think that speaks for a good portion of the user base (the other portion needs info/perspective - those are the professionals). Who gives a shit about the trolls.

CheekyB had this "round hat" quality that was just endearing. I guess that reflects who I am as a person, at least to some degree.

I got bored tonight ... so I dug up his old profile and started going through posts ... I understand so much more than I did in '08/'09, so its been an interesting review as I see the world very, very differently now (thanks to ZH).

http://www.zerohedge.com/users/cheeky-bastard/track

Warmest Regards,

Cooter

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 22:51 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 100 re Cheeky Bastard, one of the greats.  I hope he comes back to us, I read that he had health problems along the way.

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