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It May Be 2008 All Over Again, But There Is One Key Difference
The financial press has been inundated with articles comparing what is happening in global markets now to events in the latter part of 2008. Sure enough, the surge in Treasurys from 100 to 143 in the last two months of 2008 following the Lehman bankruptcy is most comparable to the move in the same security from 122 to 140 in the two months since the beginning of July 2011. What is disturbing is that the bulk of this move has happened after the August 2 debt deal, and after the announcement of QE2.5 or "ZIRP through mid-2013" by the Fed on August 9. Additionally, stocks have also traded in a pattern very reminiscent to what happened during the first round of the Great Financial Crisis, but the lock up in capital market liquidity, especially in Europe, may be the most obvious parallel between the two time periods. That said, there is one key difference between 2008 and 2011. Bill Buckler, in the latest edition of his Privateer, demonstrates what it is...
A Race In Opposite Directions:
How scary is it? The best illustration comes from the $US Gold price. The “price” of longer-term US Treasury debt has risen by 14.75 percent since the beginning of July. Over the same period, the $US price of Gold has risen from $US 1482 to its August 19 spot future close of $US 1852. That’s a rise of $US 370 or 25 percent. Yet US Treasury debt and Gold are polar opposites in any sane evaluation of the financial system. Treasury debt is the foundation of the global monetary system. Gold is the pariah of the global monetary system and has been locked out of it in any official form for four decades.
With all the comparisons to the events of 2008 which have been appearing in the mainstream financial media, this comparison has been all but totally overlooked. Cast your mind back to the carnage of late 2008. During that period, almost everything was sold off. While it is true that Gold did not fall nearly as far as did most of its fellow “commodities”, it is nonetheless a fact that in the two months between mid September and mid November 2008, Gold fell from about $US 920 to $US 700. That’s about 24 percent.
There were two financial assets which boomed in late 2008. One was Treasury debt, the other was the US Dollar. While Gold and everything else was falling out of bed, the trade-weighted US Dollar index - the USDX - soared 21 percent from 73 to 88.2 between early August and late November 2008.
Compare that to what is happening now. Treasuries are soaring but the US Dollar is, at best, flat. And Gold in terms of EVERY major paper currency has gone ballistic. This time, things do look different.
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We all are waiting for the New Obama Job Creation Plan v3. Bernanke took a strong hold position not to give away more free money. Wall street hails FOMC tidbits and tanks dollar to rally the stock market creating another recovery illusion.
New Jobs Creation Plan
O's plan is going to be an apprenticeship program where the business does not pay the worker and instead the govt. allows the worker to collect unemployment. It's not a real solution and the results won't be quick enough for the economy nor for Barry.
Until those reserves make it out into the real economy [and they won't], gold is in a bubble. Other than a few commodities, does anybody see anything else up >700% in the last ten years? Real estate? Wages? Food? What?
Silver.
Silver, gold, paper, what-have-you, they are all weak money-forms, merely abstractions of labor-value handily manipulated by the Elite for fun and profit.
Silver, gold, paper, what-have-you, they are all weak money-forms, merely abstractions of labor-value handily manipulated by the Elite for fun and profit.
Keynes. As a general rule, his critics haven't the foggiest notion of what he wrote. Or why.
Most people don't give a shit. I hope John would be horrified by what his Theory has wrought.
"Keynes. As a general rule, his critics haven't the foggiest notion of what he wrote. Or why."
I know what he wrote and why... The gov doesn't know what he wrote but liked the Keynes concept of a fiat currency that could be expanded at will for it got them away from a gold standard that restricted gov spending... The bankers don't care what Keynes wrote for they are getting rich from the collabaration with pols that Keynesian economics made inevetible...
What else would you like to know?
You all still don't get it. IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID(s)! everyone is claiming...."whatever"...and therefore refuse to aclnowledge the absolute similarity to 2008. Treasuries rally because unlike 2008 there is a coordinated and synchronous collapse of "all the rich people." by definition and since our devaluation is done "for exports" our economy must collapse too. all assets other than treasuries are by definition risk assets. This is a massive policy failure akin to the Great Depression and now the Devil will collect his due. Apparently her name is Irene.
Don't worry ... Warren will bail us all out
Key difference is all savings are gone thanks to ZIRP4EVA!
Fuk you, Jobu Bernank!
I was on your side last week?
This is a fight for the continuation of capitalism with derivatives, and the banks will choke themselves with their own worthless paper to keep the deathwish Ponzi going. The outright fraud and collusion of the FED and the banks is the only thing that has kept it going for so long. Fortunately, they have shortened their own noose ny using it to create paper. It is just a matter of time before the chair they stand on tips over from the frantic kicking when the noose tightens while they spasm on their tippy toes.
+1 Well said.
When you say collusion, you must include the LameStream Media. Read "Left Turn", and don't eat first.
There are a lot of really stupid people out there. Makes advertising work.
Who the fuk is Snooky, anyway?
All the signs said "yield" to the debt bulldozer, but they keep trying to ourun it with a 1932 Edsel with a shot piston.
They'd better be careful with that 1932 Edsel. It's a rare one -- one of a kind! Worth millions!
Sir, that`s the way it should be.
+1 !
Americans, either a new boom is coming, or a (hyper)inflationary disaster. Pick your choice.
http://mises.org/daily/5574/On-the-Brink-of-Inflationary-Disaster
Debt held by public a 'mere' $11 Bil. from $10 Tril..
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np
Debt $89 Bil from interum debt ceiling (see Table III-C)
https://www.fms.treas.gov/fmsweb/viewDTSFiles?dir=w&fname=11082500.pdf
Debt to Real GDP ($13.260 Tril)....110%
CNBS tweets reflect a certain nervousness: New York is too quiet! Where's the frivolous spending in your face tonight???
Well worth the watch if you haven't seen video. See below.
Keep in mind, IMF announcement vs. the demise of Federal Reserve drama.
2008- flashback. The odds are lower in hiding bad accounting practices. The faces have changed, but new actors are in place to sell the perpetual fraud & deceit.
An article published on July 7, 2008
Think about it prole!
Congress vs. FOMC vs. IMF vs. BIS vs. World Bank vs. UN vs. Trilateral Commission vs. Hague Court vs. THE SLAVES THAT PAIDED INTO A SYSTEM THAT CANNOT SUPPORT ITSELF.
Got to love the drama. Winks.
Our current system has failed on the premise of a MLM (Muti-level Marketing ) scam. Any Avon or Amway employees out there? Rumor is AVON is cutting the pink Cadillac executives and support staff. LOL.
ME: Ring.. Ring.. Ring.. Ring. Hello?
My Telephone: Welcome to XXXX company, we have a new voice option menu. Please listen carefully.
Press #1 for Mandarin
Press #2 for India
Press #3 for Indonesian
Press #4 for Spanish
Press #5 for English
For further service, Press #0 the reach a live Vietnamese customer representative.
the pink caddies, were mary kay
Little Susie was Mary Kay? /disillusion/
"When you're sitting back in your rose pink cadillac,
betting on Kentucky-derby day,
I'll be in my basement room with a needle and a spoon,
And another girl to take my pain away.
"Take me down little Susie, take me down,
I know you think you're the queen of the underground…
- Dead Flowers
Wow, Man! The power of suggestion is amazing. I think I'll put on some early 70's Stones. Exile On Main Street would be an excellent choice for watching the storm. Thanks.
@ 11b40: Yes, and "Exile" was literally produced in exile, fleeing an oppressive tax regime. Much of Richards/Jaggers stuff even more relevant today perhaps.
delacroix
Sigh. Your right. Thank you for correction. :>)
"...in my Cadillac...good car to drive...after a war." - Bob Dylan
In 2008, gold got cheap and the USD strong so I backed up the truck on gold and hope many others did too. People have now had time to think and plan, so they're buying gold as they go along. No more surprises. If you get caught by surprise this time it's your own fault.
How come nobody talks about why gold got creamed back then? Bear Stearns/JPM/FED anyone?
It was all just a criminal Bankster led smackdown. Nothing legitimate about it at all.
Living through a currency devaluation and how to cope
I was managing an American subsidiary of a successful large US Company in Mexico. It had been a financial turnaround for our team. Cash flow had accumulated in our bank in Mexico and corporate didn’t want the money repatriated to the US. Although we had already paid a 35% income tax to the Mexican government, we would have to pay an additional 30% exit tax to repatriate the money. In addition, we would have to pay high fees for the peso/dollar exchange, in order to make the transfer. The company wanted to expand our successful business and so we decided to keep the money in Mexican pesos to be used for further expansion.
One morning, as my wife and I were on a trip driving on the highway, we heard a national message from the President of Mexico in 1976, Luis Echevarria, one of the most corrupt presidents in Mexican history. “It is a lie that we are going to devalue the peso,” he said.
Read more
http://lonerangersilver.wordpress.com/2011/08/13/living-through-a-curren...
spammer trolls above & below me! this is about the 20th time this fukhead above has posted EXACTLY this same post for "the lone ranger", while the guy below is "friendly troll!" while he spams a dozen X per day, here! worse than you-know-who!
how many different gerald"fukyouzeroHedge"calente trolls can you name? here, again, "mr always OT" gets a player who should know better and validates the "00brien" T-R-O-L-L
not that it matters, of course
At least johnny bravo/ master bates would engage in a back and forth, instead of a dump and run
How do you really feel, Slewie? Don't beat around the "hedge".
Do you guys think Alex Jones is insane?
I can sit and listen to that guy for hours.
http://geraldcelente.proboards.com
Who the fuck knows? Years ago, I though Willie was a nut. Not anymore...
T-R-O-L-L
maybe the new owners of zeroHedge like these shitheads?
Mush room ) time?
face it slewie, you're a troll magnet
Lost your ? Grip?
Everyone is a shill for some competing globalist cartel. Alex Jones is no exception. But that doesn't mean there isn't truth in what he says. The antidote to being gulled isn't to be skeptical- it's to believe everything and anything. Except what is diseminated by the mainstream media. Example- I believe every theory about 9/11 except the official one. if you tell me that it was aliens, or a time warp, or part of the Philadelphia experiment, I'll just nod my head and accept it as credible.
In that vein, consider the theory that 12,000 years ago, in Atlantis, after the great cataclysm, the rulers all had access to the Philosopher's stone. They MADE all their gold and silver,(using alchemical processes) and used it's availability (or lack thereof) to make slaves out of everyone else.
Who "makes" money now? Of course, what bankers do today is a pale imitation of what those bad-asses were doing back then, but even though it is a poor/sorry substitute, the principles are the same- control the supply, and you control the world. As far as gold goes, it is just another part of their game. When they want your gold, they will just take it- after taking all of your fiat money in the first place.
As long as the bankers and the elites who control the bankers can MAKE (CREATE) the money, they will control everything, and there is no limit to the number of tricks they have.
But since I am commenting in that plastic space between material reality and metaphysics, I have to add that everything affects everything else. Mammon plays on the illusion of the scarcity of energy- it's all an illusion, even when the Atlanteans were transmuting base metals into gold. But the illusions have power, and they can affect material events, like the weather, comets, and earthquakes.
I think we won't have to wait for the money sorcerers to run out of tricks. As long as things go on as they are, they never will. But Atlantis collapsed into the ocean- I expect something similar to take out the current money system. Fukushima is a start in that process. The universe will do so because the evil pleads to be put out of its own misery.
Woo-woo, I know. But I haven't heard anyone give a better explanation yet.
" once upon a time a paragraph was , bestowed upon me."
POOF
He is definitely full of shit. Whether it is because he is deranged or working the crowd I don't know.
To JPMHater001,
I don't recognize your handle, but you must know that one of the greatest parts of Fight Club is not having to show a badge at the door (which could be fabricated, of course). I don't use my purported IQ in my handle, I try not to respond to drivel, and I admire the old-timers here for their lack of commentary, rather than the finger-based discharge so common with the newbies...
well, i don't like to be too glued to 2008 parallels, either. i also see a little different show in commodities prices, this time, but i haven't done an analytical break-down
what else has changed? i think, much hope about how many jobs are gonna get created by non-goobermint economic activity. and may.be, too, people are learning about the fraud and criminality being practiced by the banksters and their political hacks, world-wide
so, they're buying gold and, if they're smarter than the average bear, silver, too
It's about , Effin time? Yen
Light / us up / Slewie! I need it!
Look @ those French swaps!
That 24% gold retreat had everything to do with forced selling and a lack of liquidity - and I remember how most remarked that gold should be going UP, not DOWN. The reason it didn't retreat more was that those with money were buyers in the event of a total dollar collapse. Will we see the same action going forward? Absolutely, liquidity makes the world go round.
Hey Slewie,
First, any real jobs that are going to be created will be in the drop-out economy. What is one to do when a five-year old can't even operate a lemonade stand without a permit? That's where some work, under the radar, producing real goods and valuable, needed services.
Beyond that, it's all parallels as long as things continue as they are. They print (make) too much money and create a bubble, which pops, (I mean, they pop it) and then they pull it all back in and harvest the fruits of everyone's labors. Then they inflate again. As long as things stay the same, now is just shearing time again. But things are diferent this time, but not in the arena of human financial shenanigans. The dismal sameness of the financial shenanigans is proof positive that the denizens of Babylon will be shocked, SHOCKED when the finality of the destruction overtakes them. Zerohedge is a part of the whole. There's more going on out there, and it's all relevant, and all connected.
groupon me a gold bar mother fuckers.
What may be the most salient difference during this latest phase - a liquidity trap - is that banks are charging rates for deposits.
tyler - a PRE-post breathalizer might help here.
Tyler these posts / are post fact-o... Come on let's get real time! 2: 24 ( GMT)?
jET TO CATCH, From a troll.
n YEN CRoSSS, Falling over
Niggar with no gass? Pound the Dirt " Slewie" I'll mind fuck that ass hat all ? > DAY}
Drunk post?
Child / with no range trading skills?
Look People ! I have aq Jet too catch... This isn't Fun Time! We have to rework some things!
F''K the ship , we all need to eat!
When I read the postings on this blog, I begin to lose faith. The lot of you sound like so many college sophomores who exist on a diet of Robert Anton Wilson's and Robert Shea's writings, with a little ALeister Crowley and Goebbels mixed in. I read ZH because once in awhile there are some very shrewd insights from TD and a few others. The rest of you are fucking idiots with no sense or knowledge of Zionist or Jewish or Arab or Persian or even European history. You cannot rewrite the human genome, even if you twist historical facts to support your idiot theories about The Illuminati and their adjuncts. The Bilderbergers lost their tempo thirty years ago. The Golden Dawn and that ilk faded out after WW2. The reason societies and economies are falling apart is far simpler than even the average mind of the ordinary ZH poster (buy silver, bitchez). The Global Village was built, but it is a town out of the Wild West. There are no sets of coherent rules, traffic cops or effective judges-only neighborhoods where, if the mon of the day doesn't like the way things are done, he just leaves and travels to the next block. The warlord there will accomodate him according to his desires. You, me and every working stiff on the planet are finding out that we pay the bill for the JPM's of the world. Well wake the fuck up - we have always paid the bills- in blood, in money, in the short little lives we live.
The purpose of the recent battle is to wipe Crimex out. It is to cause the deleveraging of paper traders and derivative-sellers before they utterly destroy the global economy. Spending time trying to figure out who is a Jew and who is a Khazar is about the lamest, stupidest waste of time I ever heard of. You fucking idiots, we are all alive on one lonesome rock, circling a so-what star with no way out of here. God doesn't care whether you're Buddhist or Baptist - our fate is the direct result of our own behavior. It amazes me that all you pundits who can read the COT and do the math for wave analysis and cloud computing cannot face a simple truth about yourselves. You're no better than the historians who wrote whatever the King said to. You are missing the point. Our numbers are growing. Our resources are diminishing. War, pestilence and plague are the historical results when the tides of greed are left to flow unchecked. Buy your metal - in that,at least, you are doing a useful thing. But realize that you must put your IQ and opposable thumbs to work to figure out how to make this planet work, how to form a coherent set of rules that govern global trade and instant information. That begins with putting a full stop to demonizing people you don't agree with. There are shitheads in the world, of every stripe and color. It isn't a racial issue, unless you include the entire human race.
Just remember this, O Wise Ones - the fossil record is full of examples of species who failed to adapt to systemic changes. The fucking dinosaurs managed for 150 million years. Tribalism threatens to put us in the limestone in something less than 1% of that span. Go figure, bitchez.
Like your pathetic lack of { Paragraphs}?
Bullet: How about your complete lack of the ( POST) ?
The post was about what....
You know he is right. What do you ever offer but some nonsense that nobody ever replies to.
Mostly it had to do with a page or so of replies from the usual right-wing fascisti wannabes pretending to understand Zionism. In case you really want to know.
As for the post itself, and Tyler's unrelenting efforts to illuminate your darkened minds, I have nothing but support for its points. An arttist can see what isn't there as plainly as what is. An idiot sdees only what he sees, and thereby only a reflection of himself.
No shit Sherlock...You must have missed the thousands of post here concerning sustainability.
Humanure Bitchez!
O! The angst! The loneliness! The pain of existence! What beauteous torture, to stand as Neitchze upon the Promethean heights, without a friend or a equal in the world!
Indeed we pity you GobbleC, you ignorant fuck.
Such pity as thine
is worth the shadow of a thousand breaths
breathed into a paradigm
of worthless breathless waiting.
Fuck thyself, shithead. Preferably with thine silver steely dan.
Thanks, Tito
Refreshing after so much other---keep it coming, brother----we are ALL on the same team om
Attention History Nerds. Here is a 1 hour long, black&white, silent film about a day in the life of the metropolis that was Berlin between the Weimar hyperinflation and and the ascension of the Nazis. 1927.
Most of you will be bored out of your gourds, but may be 1 or 2 of you will enjoy the cultural history. I think I saw Hindenburg walking down stairs to some diplomatic event. But who knows? All those Junkers look alike.
You will see the quality of life in Berlin just 4 years after the Rentenmark ended the Weimar hyperinflation. With any luck soon the Paul or Peridollar will end our plight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYKu5zegpfc
The U.S. dollar will move higher, but only when the Euro breaks down and moves lower. I sense it is getting closer, but nobody knows for sure when.
time123
admin at http://invetrics.com
Clear direction on gold
Channel of Doom
Egg of Doom
http://oahutrading.blogspot.com/
Keep the Junks! Trade well...
The law of unintended consequences has and continues to hatch balck swans. They have not been spotted as yet but when they appear you will scratch your heads and say 'holy shit'.
Irene slams New York: In pictures as the world most modern city is humbled as residents flee.
http://capital3x.com/?p=405
Great Link, thanks
Any extra special deals for Zero Hedge readers or do we also have to pay $85/month
http://capital3x.com/subscribe
would love to offer but how do we validate that this is ZH readers who are subscribing. System then become susceptible to gaming :)
The first 7 days are anyways free and can be cancelled if not worth it.
"Bank of America, the nation’s biggest bank by assets and deposits, has its headquarters in Charlotte, N.C., and major operations spanning the eastern seaboard up to New York and Boston. Dotting the Atlantic Coast are some 1,200 of its banking centers, more than 20% of the bank’s 5,742 nationwide locations, a spokeswoman sad Friday. That figure includes branches but doesn’t include standalone ATMs or administrative and operational facilities."
WSJ.
Looks very bullish for the USA GDP.
Shits about to get real worldwide folks. Get your preps in order. If you are not on Twitter already, please set up an account right now before/if it goes down.
I've been watching all night, it seems Irene is setting off an information storm. It will be a busy day. Stay informed. NY taking heavy damage.
Not trying to scare anyone, just passing along info. Look at some of the accounts ZH is following, follow those you deem inportant, there are many, easy to check. Goldcore is reccomended, not just because of gold. Any news org as well.
Really need to keep and eye on this. I am not easily scared, I come from a military background.
I'm getting the jitters, which is wierd for me.
I am VERY serious.
Preposterous. This is a sunshine rain storm compared to what happens in 'the world'.
Heavy damage in NY? Not. Unless buildings are falling down there is no heavy damage. Unless the eastern seaboard is wiped out by a Tsunami and 2 Million Americans are dead, there is no heavy damage.
And Twitter? Seriously? Thats for flash mobs and HS students.
Twitter being heavily censored. All of inet is. Yes seriously. MSM downplaying of course. 100k national guard activated.
Owning gold as wealth and money is the ultimate vote against the central banking system. Why do they dislike gold so much? The arguments put forth are numerous, carefully crafted, even somewhat valid. But the biggest reason they don’t like gold they don’t talk about much at all. Gold is the ultimate bearer instrument. It transcends all currencies, monetary policies, and government rules. It is the individual’s money and wealth. In short, they can’t control it.
I'm afraid that for most, owning gold will have only temporary emotional value. They (the Elite) CAN control gold. How? The old fashioned way- with guns.
Scenario for confiscation: Controlling the fiat money supply is all fine and dandy, until it takes on a life of its own. At some point in the life cycle of fiat currency, all options going forward become compressed into one- print more of it. Any other option spells doom (deflationary crash) for the very system of control over the supply of money. It is a conundrum, a bizarre irony, that the maintenance of control leads to ucontrollable printing.
There is only one way out- the fiat MUST be tied to something tangible. Then, and only then, can it be revalued, and the whole system given a reset. The eternal store of objective value- gold. The price of gold in fiat is set at an arbitrary number, and debts then are settled on that basis. There will be mass financial carnage, but the important thing is that the Elites remain in control. If that objective is met, then the operation is a success.
Uncontrolled deflation can only be averted by uncontrollable inflation, which is just as dangerous to the elite's control over the slaves via manipulation of the money supply. Re-valuation of fiat in terms of gold is a controlled deflation, and brings the momentum of the runaway vehicle (money) back to a reasonale speed.
The only way to revalue is to have control, then, over the gold. Revaluing fiat on the basis of gold is pointless if the ownership (control) of the metal is difuse and spread out across the populace. If left in the hands of private idividuals, the market sets the price of gold in fiat, not the Elite. This is loss of control, and a defeat for them, which is precisely the point of Dowtoolong's comment.
Who controls the money also controls the guns. Sure, we all have handguns and rifles, but the drones, 50 cals, helicopter gunships and bombs belong to them. Also the trained death squads, police forces, and SWAT teams. In other words, the massed guns and trained guns belong to them. The result of resistance is Wounded Knee, Ruby Ridge and Waco. Every time.
The price of gold has been driven up, not by you and me, and our few ounces here and there, but by Central Banks and other Gov't/Institutional purchases. When all the gold has been purchased, then the elite will turn to confiscation. At that moment, the price of gold could be as high as 5,000/oz.
The first wave of confiscation will be one in which you must turn in your gold for fiat at a steep discount. The price could be 1000/oz. You are beig robbed. Then, after the grace period is over, the Secret Service will come to knock on your door. If you do not turn over the gold then, for nothing, realizing that if you keep your freedom, you are lucky, they will come back with the guns, and when the smoke clears, you will be either dead, or in perpetual custody.
Realize that they pretty much know where all the gold is. If you buy from any sort of reputable dealer, your identity and whereabouts is known. The only untraceable gold is the gold you purchase on the black market, (how much torture will a black market gold dealer endure before he coughs up your name? Not very much) or if you are lucky enough to find treasure, posses a Philosopher's Stone, or inherit some that is not inventoried in a will, or in a safe-deposit box. Then, how will you convert that gold into food/clothing/shelter without detection?
I hate to say all this, but the current gold frenzy is just another part of their plan. Folks, think outside the monetary box! The love of money is the root of all evil. Opposition to the ostensible face of the evil, while imbibing of its spirit is like hating the pusher while you are strug out on heroin.
Hopefully Tyler will feature this article
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2857194.html
From green to red: is Credit Crunch 2.0 imminent?In global financial markets, the signals have changed from green to red. But rather than a simple traffic jam, a full-scale credit crash may be ahead.
Greek banks are merging and get fresh capital uit of Qatar. Ends well. Boring world we live in.
One more thing to consider in Inflation / Deflation outcome:
US Dollar Puchasing Power Since 1913 (FED incorporation)
http://sufiy.blogspot.com/2011/08/chairman-ben-s-bernanke-at-federal.html#
Blah Blah Blah, Inflation bad. Not. Tell anyone who bught a house in 1910,20,30,40,50,60,70,80 that. They very much ENJOYED inflation.
When I look at this article I am utterly dumbfounded at all the comments on Zionism and Judaism? What the hell does that have to do with the article and its theme? Yes...there is a comparison between now and 2008 simply because global debt never went anywhere. It is still contracting. Capitalism wealth is built on the principles of competition which is why we have had the innovation and advances we have had in the past forty years or so. It is why science, medicine and technology have advanced so far and so fast in such a short period of chronologic time. Mostly there are good times in capitalism because in free countries (like most of the western world) people are free to innovate and create. To rise as far and a and high as they can. If this illuminetti, builderberg or whatever else you want to call it were trying to suppress everything then you wouldn't have guys like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, or Larry Ellison would you? Their wealth was created in a span of fifteen years or so (the majority of it). How come the Rothchilds didn't step on them at that time? How come the traditional oil powers let them rise? Come on people. If that were the case Walmart would have been crushed by the old wealth. In capitalism the strong and opportunitic survive. Those that do it really well and create products the world demands are the ones that get ultra wealthy. Yes, they try to protect their wealth, who the hell wouldn't in a competative market?
I believe gold will follow the markets down very shortly, but that is just my opinion.
People always need someone to blame when things don't seem to be way they should be... Purely subjective, of course...
Your statement makes me tthink of Ben Bernanke. But what do I know?
Good point. KMart would have given Sam Walton cement Calvin Klein briefs.
I don't worry that Gold and Silver moves a little up or down. It will always be worth something significant. I own it for my own wealth preservation but also so that one of "them" cannot own it. "They" will fractionalize it and abuse it and lie about it and so they should not have it. If more people did what I am doing, and it sure seems that more people are doing that, then "they" will fall. Gold and Silver is the very basis of money and holder of value. That is my principle. That's my story and I'm stickin to it.
Then again , not everyone the NWO are Jewish.
Paulson , Hillary, Cheney, rumsfield, bush, all sold theirs souls to lucifer on behalf of the zoinists . Maybe that's why the confusing term "lucerferian".
It's like saying rasterferian instead of regga.
...and every nation is now broke due to the fraud.
Not labor this, not welfare that.
Because of the FRAUD.
Either the debt directly, debt via bailouts, and the removal of the easy money from their tax coffers.
All the consequences of FRAUD. The world's nations had some room on their credit cards, now they don't...because they maxed it out to give the wall street (enter any countries markets) junkies a couple more years of bonuses.
Cancel the fraud, so the world may live.
Glass-Steagall
Sure we're in a mess and I hate the greedy banksters as much as you do but part of this is our fault. Pay off consumer debts; downsize to a house you can afford; drive an older car; cook your own food. Cut out the bankers if you can. I pay all bills in cash to local small business, products or repairs. Who needs points and airline miles? Buy your own tickets. They add charges to the merchants for the use of credit cards and then give you back a few pennies. Cut them out of it.
Have you ever been caught in a lie, and your only way out is to tell a bigger lie?
If they cancel the fraud, the whole world would collapse, and millions would die, immediately.
If they don't cancel the fraud, in time the fraud will collapse under its own weight, and the whole world will collapse, and millions will die.
But a continuation of the fraud is the longer time-line. So it is the better option.
Do you like lattes, electricity, HDTV, and push-button smart cars with GPS? Then don't pray for a cancellation of the fraud. The fraud has brought you all the comforts of life. Take some mental and emotional space to gratefully enjoy all your gadgets and conveniences, for they will all become useless and disappear soon enough. Pray for Bernanke and his ilk to be able to sustain the illusion for yet another day, so you can appreciate and enjoy your last moments of comfort and luxury.
Democracy as we knew it has morphed into welfare democracy where the have's are increasingly being conned out of their savings by the have nots. Whether it is those freeloaders or unfortunates who want free drugs, food or housing; or those who want to suck the blood out of any going concern by diverting profits or creating economic friction; or simply those who want to perpetuate the myth that governments (and central banks) can allocate resources across the economy better than you or I; the answer will always be the same. The amount of debt you can afford to pay has a limit. The (self-imposed) US government debt ceiling is not that limit. The limit is the amount that can reasonably be expected to be financed from a reasonable proportion of taxable income. For the US, this number is around 10% of a $2 trillion tax take, or $200 billion per annum. The Fed can rig the interest rate and pretend that the cost of debt for a deteriorating credit is not related to credit (or finance) quality, but the fair interest rate of return for tying your money up for five years is around 4% and, using this yardstick, the maximum sustainable debt that can be sustained by the US economy paying $200 billion in interest is $5 trillion or 35% of GDP. It certainly isn't the 105% of GDP currently subject ot he "debt ceiling". Taxes need to go up and spending needs to come down to run a fiscal surplus so that the currect debt level of 105% is reduced to 35% of GDP. A plan that achieves fiscal surpluses of around 5% of GDP (from the current fiscal deficit of 10% of GDP) needs to be put in place, IMMEDIATELY. this 15% per annum turnaorund is realistically achievable by cutting spending by 50% (to save 3.5 trillion x 50%) to $1.75 trillion per annum and also by raising taxes by 25% to a level of 2.5 trillion. The resulting surplus of 750 billion per annum can be maintained for ten years to reduce debt from the current 16 trillion to 8.5 trillion and should be around 40% of GDP. This is a plan, anything else is BULLSHIT.
A welfare democracy? For who? I hear people bitch about an immigrant stealing foodstamps and gas, but turn a blind eye to the massive thievery practiced by large banks and corporations. The blind eye belongs to DOJ, SEC, NASDAQ, CME and many of you. The only welfare I see out there lies in the billions of dollars' worth of subsidies the government gives to large businesses. The S&P and DJIA boys have been awash in cash for ten years. They aren't hiring...Americans, but they willingly take the billions in taxpayer cash that our government hands them. The "job creators" like Halliburton took our national treasury to Dubai during the Great Bush Con. Our nation has been stolen from us, and the sheeple still think that somehow Wall Street is going to save us. This has been going on since the Old Boyz figured out what they could do during and after Enron. I don't think your opening statement accurately reflects the fate of the Enron employees whose lives were ruined by their rich bosses, their whore politicians and sycophants. Market crashes are used to buy banks and accounting houses on the cheap, and now the entire financial world is run by thieves, with the tacit endorsement of a government funded by workers, but owned by corporations. An idiot thinks that the poor are the problem.
Best be careful how you apply that knife to cutting spending. Maybe have a look at why healthcare ought to be nationalized and run as not-for-profit (or maybe you're happy subsidizing low-cost drugs for the rest of the world). Maybe remember why the healthcare conversation got started. Nobody asked for free drugs - but 3000.00 a dose for an antibiotic is a ittle beyond the pale, when the same drug sells everywhere else in the world for $15 equivalent. 15k for a minor operation here, or 5k for it in Denmark, hotel and airfare included? Cut something real if you're serious about cutting the deficit. Cut this government off next time you vote. All of 'em. Cut Fox News off if they can't report the truth. Cut Rupert Murdoch off for failing to report unbiased news and for invading people's private lives. Cut WalMart off if it impoverishes your town by mining away all its wealth. Just don't cut off your own damned nose to spite your face.
You have A plan, not THE plan. Your rights as a citizen do not supercede those of the poorest citizen in the country. Not the richest. Not what's left of the middle class. You have the same rights and the same obligations. What you fail to see is that it isn't the 'have-nots' who are conning you out of your wealth. Its some of the wealthiest among us who are actively working to impoverish everyone else. Ten million freeloaders cost less than one war wrought by a lying thieving murdering sonofabitch from Texas. And you ought to be careful too-some of the freeloaders you are referring to are our sons and daughters who fought and became maimed or ruined, fighting the wars of the rich. Careful you don't end up like the family of the czar.
Maybe think about the mandate American citizens delivered to the President, Congress and the Senate in the last election (which they have obfuscated, ignored and spun to death). Don't bitch about cutting NPR or NEA funding if you're defending the 'no-new-taxes-on-the-rich' bs. The rich don't pay payroll taxes. They pay capital gains taxes. Working poor pay the payroll tax, by far the biggest bite from a paycheck. 700 billion for a small tax hike on the rich, or anarchy when you cut what remains of the social services our citizens receive?
If you want a stable economy and civilization, it starts with people having a little more at the end of the week than they began with. Bermuda has virtualy no crime rate, a full spectrum of society, and is as pure a welfare state as can be found on the planet. This country (USA) is headed straight for mass riots and disintegration - the inevitable result of starving people out and stealing their homes. The rich will be lined up against the wall and machine-gunned down, just like in every social chaos that results from oppression. There is no solution to be found in separating people from the satisfaction of working and earning a living. Those of you who are so eager to drown the poor ought to remember that there are many, many more of them than there are of you. They are wilier than you, and have more street smarts. They will not hesitate to run the streets with your blood if you are so stupid as to back them into a corner. Better to feed tham, educate them, house them and provide them a means of escaping poverty. Evolution costs less than revolution, and if your wealth isn't employed making the planet a bit nicer of a place, then you are the Nihilist, not the government, or me, or any other 'liberals' you can point to. Of course, it wouldn't bother me a bit if every greedy bastard was lined up and shot. They have run our civilization to the brink of ruin-again and again. They can't have my country. My family, like most families, is peopled with ancestors who fought and died for the rights enshrined in our Bill of Rights and Constitution. I wil not insult their memory by catering to stupid greedy bastards who have an entitlement complex. My country is great BECAUSE of its different peoples, Because of the social mobility that it created. No misbegotten Nazi Fascisti Hyper-Rich motherfucker is going to take it away. Not with any army or any ruse. If I die defending my flag, so be it and I die an honorable death. If a greedy bastard dies stealing from all and sundry, then the world is better for it.
Fact #1, Old Boys - nobody gets out of here alive. History has forgotten a million tyrants, and pays no attention whatever to bigots, except when their insanity expresses itself in mass-murder. Charlemagne, though his house failed at the hands of a tribe of greedy bastards, is remembered by history as a stand-out, stand-up guy. Socio-economists such as yourself would do well to read some of that kind of history.
Tito,
You've said all I ever had to say and I thank you for this: eloquent, concise, and correct.
It truly is all about survival and equality.
I want to survive to see equality, but whether I do or not depends more on my unconscious mind than any plan; not wtitten in my genes so much as my instincts in the moment. Most of the dudes believe that it is all 'will'; I wish them well, but you have told the true story of this country and these times
nothing else to say except----thank you again om
Hooligan, you are right. This is the only plan that will work. But...reason has left us. Practicality is not an option. such a plan is never going to be implemented, because it will mean hardship for the masses, which is political suicide, and haircuts for the elite, which is political suicide. The plan that WILL work is to push the tottering mass to the limit, and then, (if you are one of the Elite), have a plan to escape the catastophic collapse, and THEN, in the chaos and turmoil, impose a totalitarian socialist matrix upon the survivors. This is the real plan, there is no other.
“The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.”
-Vladimir Lenin
“The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency”
Vladimir Lenin quote
Now you know the books that whoever is behind the current difficulites has been reading.
my personal thought is that Gold has been entirely rational. In fact the most rational market of them all. We all know oil is a political football, and stocks are for jugglers and clowns. Gold just tracks the dollar, and historically underperforms the stock indexes, it just adjusts to the government policy of death by inches on the dollar.
so if you are buying gold and you are emotional about it, you are probably making a mistake. if i'm correct there are two prospects ahead, one is gold becomes irrational, which might happen if interest rates get out of control of the Fed. or that all things being equal gold underperforms things like AAPL for instance, which is a mass delusion to put tulips to shame (remember there is no mass delusion about gold, gold is what it is. mass delusions which end badly have to do with something which possesses perishable and transitory value. so gold is not likely to BE a bubble, but that would disappoint most of you I know) and AAPL is about to burst, which might makes the shorts happy.
I kind of like platinum here. All along this bullmarket it was all about gold, and especially silver. Palladium has outperformed gold almost by a factor of 2 since the 08 lows, although its been flat lately. Platinum is building a nice multiyear base at $1800-2000 level and if it breaches 2008 highs could make a breakaway move up $1000 or more. Imagine if there was a problem in South Africa, and their mines shut down for any appreciable amount of time. Platinum is not a "monetary metal" per se I know spare me, but IT IS over 10 times as rare as gold, and harder to find and mine. It should NOT trade at the same price as gold, which there is 5-6 billion ozs in aboveground supply.
They key lesson here - silver, palladium, and platinum have all outperformed gold for the duration of this PM bullmarket, in that order.
Platinum looks like a better buy at $1800 than gold this is just common sense. Considering platinum has a history of trading to $2200+ whilst gold was BARELY $1000 it seems likely that if gold goes to $2500 that platinum will be $5k or more.