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"It Is Really Disheartening That This White House Did Not Have A Plan B" - A Preview Of The Next Debt Ceiling Crisis

Tyler Durden's picture




 

As of Friday, total US debt subject to the limit was $16.006 trillion, or $387 billion below the latest and greatest official debt ceiling. In the past 3 months the US has been raising debt at a slower pace than usual precisely for this reason. Debt issuance will now pick up at far faster pace as the trendline mean reversion reasserts itself. It means that sometime over the next few months, and certainly before the end of the year, the US debt ceiling will be breached (with all the usual tactics employed to delay this event from happening as much as possible, including resuming the pillaging of various government retirement funds) as the Treasury itself warned. It also means that either just before or just after the presidential election, the topic of the debt ceiling will be once again upon us. As a reminder, the reason why the market plunged back in August of 2011 is because as the GOP proved unwilling to compromise, suddenly everyone, led by Tim Geithner, realized just how close to a failed auction, read endgame, the US was, and the dire need for a wake up call became paramount. Furthermore as is well-known, the only stimulus Pavlovian politicians react to is a market collapse, which not only instills the fear of the "401(k)" god falling to earth, but lights up the switchboards as concerned "voters" suddenly realize that all their mark-to-Bernanke's market "wealth" may disappear in a puff of smoke. It is now, courtesy of Bob Woodward, that we learn just how close we came. And since the polarity and discord in Congress after the election, already at record levels, will soar to new all time highs after November, it is safe to say that the debt ceiling debacle deja vu is coming, and this time it will make the first one seem like child's play.

From the WaPo's "Inside story of Obama’s struggle to keep Congress from controlling outcome of debt ceiling crisis" - excerpts:

The president told his senior staff that the call with Boehner had led nowhere.

 

“So we’ve got to figure out Plan B. Which is, how do we get out of this thing?” he said.

 

The problem was that they did not have a Plan B.

 

It was increasingly clear that no one was running Washington. That was trouble for everyone, but especially for Obama. Although running things is a joint venture between the president and Congress, a president has to dominate Congress — or at least be seen as dominating Congress. The last president to fold was George H.W. Bush, who gave in to Democrats’ demands that income taxes be raised in a 1990 budget deal. And Bush had been a one-term president.

 

When Obama learned that the deal negotiated among the congressional leaders would require a two-step increase in the debt limit, he told Rob Nabors, the White House director of legislative affairs, “The one thing I said I actually needed, they didn’t get,” referring to Reid and Pelosi. “I needed this to go past the election, and they didn’t get it for me. This can’t work.”

 

Obama sent word that he wanted the two Democratic leaders at the White House at 6 p.m. that Sunday, July 24. No reason was given.

 

Reid arrived in the Oval Office with his chief of staff, David Krone.

 

...

 

“I don’t trust these guys,” the president said dismissively.

 

Krone either would not or could not conceal his anger.

 

“Wait a second,” Obama said, interrupting someone else who was about to speak. “I can tell David has something else to say.”

 

Mr. President, I am sorry — with all due respect — that we are in this situation that we’re in, but we got handed this football on Friday night. And I didn’t create this situation. The first thing that baffles me is, from my private-sector experience, the first rule that I’ve always been taught is to have a Plan B. And it is really disheartening that you, that this White House did not have a Plan B.”

 

Several jaws dropped as the Hill staffer blasted the president to his face.

 

“So I don’t have a lot of options, in the past 36, 48 hours, to put together,” Krone continued. “We’re supposed to be the ones that fend off an economic catastrophe. And what we find ourselves is now, with no deal, we’re going to have to root for the worst possible things to happen in order to prove to the Republicans that you cannot be so callous and let the debt limit expire.

 

“That is a horrible position that we’re in,” Krone said. “And so this may not be the perfect deal, but it’s the only deal that we have on the table right now in the situation that we find ourselves.”

 

Obama replied: “I understand what you think you’re doing. I’m not doing that. The one thing that we need to bring stability to this economy is not throwing the debt limit increase back into the political arena. I’m not doing that under any circumstances. So if that means that I’m not signing this bill, I’m not signing the bill.”

Cue Tim Geithner:

You can’t veto,” Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner told the group. “You cannot be responsible for default.” Anything had to be done to prevent it. Anything to preserve the global economy.

 

Could I actually veto it? Obama asked, adopting his law professor manner. What would happen on the day of the veto? The day after?

 

“It would have massive effects,” Geithner said. Treasury had to conduct a bond auction in the open market in about five days, the regular Tuesday auction, with settlement on Thursday. That first auction could be a kind of tripwire, setting off a chain reaction. The federal government couldn’t pay its bills. “Why would anyone buy U.S. bonds if it’s an open question whether we are going to have the authority to pay for them?”

 

Another possible outcome, Geithner said, was perhaps worse. “Suppose we have an auction and no one shows up?”

 

The cascading impact would be unknowable. The world could decide to dump U.S. Treasuries. Prices would plummet, interest rates would skyrocket. The one pillar of stability, the United States, the rock in the global economy, could collapse.

 

“So,” the president said, “if we give $1.2 trillion now in spending cuts” — the amount in the House bill to get the first increase in the debt ceiling for about six to nine months — “what happens next time?” The Republicans would then come back next year, in the middle of the presidential campaign, and impose more conditions on the next debt ceiling increase. He could not give the Republicans that kind of leverage, that kind of weapon. It was hostage taking. It was blackmail. “This will forever change the relationship between the presidency and the Congress.

This is 100% wrong: the relationship did change forever, but not between the presidency and the Congress, which are simply two of the three branches of the US government purchased exclusively to do the bidding of Wall Street. It changed between Washington DC and Wall Street. And Wall Street won, as it always does. And all it took was a 20% drop in the S&P for EVERYONE to cave in.

As to what comes next:

Obama never had to confront the veto question. A few days later, House Republicans dropped their insistence on the two-step plan [ZH: after the market tumbled]. The final plan accepted a debt limit increase that would take the country through the 2012 presidential contest. It also postponed $2.4 trillion in spending cuts until early 2013.

 

The long-term deficit crisis had not been solved, but merely put off, leaving the United States at the edge of the fiscal cliff, where it remains today.

Fiscal cliff yes, but also new debt ceiling fight in a few short months. And the winner, contingent on a 20%, 30%, or 40%+ slide in the stock market, will once again be Wall Street, which will again take America's 300+ million population, and its preoccupation with various numbers indicating one's monthly fluctuating "wealth", hostage to achieve its goals.

 

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Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:39 | 2776136 jcpicks
jcpicks's picture

Borrow to infinity, print to infinity!

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:59 | 2776284 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture

 

 

Democrat's say once you vote black you never go back. Hey jobs be damned for the middle class you don't need no stinkin jobs obama will give you (with other people's taxes) food stamps, extended unemployment, disability for your vote and the 1% inconceivable wealth.

 

Jobs rut tips scales in favor of Fed stimulus

 

 

Guess Which President Has Been Best for Stocks?

 

Is the Stock Market Voting for Obama?

 

Analysis: I expect QE3 on Sept 13th

 

Economists Expect Fed to Deliver QE3 and More Next Week

 

 

Four More Years...and Social Security Disability Will Be Broke

 

Even the MSM is now reporting unemployment at 19%

 

Lost Middle-Class Jobs Being Replaced by Burger-Flipping and Retail Gigs: NELP Study

In short a vote for obama = insane amounts of money for the 1%, welfare programs for the masses until AFTER the election because then watch out the benefits will be cut and then if your lucky you can find a job flipping burgers or cleaning toilets.

 

 

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:08 | 2776303 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Here is how it will go down. Romney is a loser candidate allowing Obama to be reelected on a very slim majortiy. The House and Senate will be a sea of Republican red. Congress will force default in the new year and impeach Obamao out no problems. Democrats will be forced into a point of crisis with no answers to what will pass. Prepare for chaos.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:30 | 2776339 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Yet the 'reporter' who wrote the above piece trashing Obama, is a US intelligence agency operative who was planted in the media, and who led the early 1970s intelligence agency coup d'état that brought down Richard Nixon.

Yes, Watergate was another US coup, less bloody than the JFK killing in 1963, and Bob Woodward is a fraud and fake as 'brave reporter'.

In the late 1960s Bob Woodward was in the US Navy working for Naval Intelligence under Admiral Thomas Moorer. In 1970 Admiral Moorer became head of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff - head of the whole US military - and Woodward left the US Navy to become a planted Washington Post 'reporter'. -

Also in 1970, Admiral Moorer started running a spy ring against the Nixon White House, with the US military thinking Nixon and Kissinger were getting 'soft on Communists' etc. Navy Yeoman Charles Redford stole many White House documents and so on for the joint chiefs, US Admiral Elmo Zumwalt getting some of the documents.

The spy ring - US military against the White House - was discovered at the end of 1971. But just like with the military 'business plot' planned coup in the 1930s against US President Franklin Roosevelt, exposed by US Marine General Smedley Butler ('War is a Racket'), and Roosevelt's agreement not to prosecute the American elite (including grand-pappy Bush) ... Nixon agreed to cover-up the military spy ring.

Likely fearing to end up dead like JFK, Nixon always feared to publicly denounce it for the rest of his life, tho did not deny it.

Despite Nixon's agreement to shut up and not prosecute, the military remained unhappy, along with the American elite, who wanted Nixon out  ... Nixon, for all his flaws, had come to the same conclusions as Jack Kennedy ... in other words, make some peace with the commies, and try to build a better life for Americans ... Nixon even tried to give everyone in the US European-style health insurance (His 'CHIP' programme.)

So Watergate was magnified into a scandal for a coup, the Washington Post brave 'reporters' Woodward and Bernstein - with Woodward still loyal to his old boss Admiral Moorer ... they took Nixon down.

A major ally was the manipulative John Dean, Nixon's lawyer in the White House, working his own angles, and betraying Nixon to the coup plotters, and made a 'media darling' from among the Nixon gang, tho Dean maybe was the worst snake among the bunch.

And ever since, Bob Woodward's fake Washington Post - John Dean version of the Watergate 'story' has dominated. ... and the truth still basically squashed today, by the dominant media framework ... Nearly everybody believes Watergate was some kind of pro-populist 'exposé'.

A lot of the Watergate facts has come out from investigators Len Colodny and Robert Gettlin, a book 'Silent Coup' ... more detail on this on a website associated with them

http://www.watergate.com/

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 15:00 | 2776543 Scalaris
Scalaris's picture

Why are you apes junking the bank guy?

Inconsistency of journalistic content, as well as evidence fabrication, is, and has been one of Woodward's fortes.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:12 | 2777171 Isotope
Isotope's picture

Woodward is well known for his lies and fabrication. Like when he claimed to have sneaked into DCI Casey's hospital room using scrubs as a disguise and got a "deathbed" confession from him about the Contras.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 15:03 | 2776551 max2205
max2205's picture

Awesome story....can't wait for the movie

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 16:06 | 2776669 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Bank Guy is fast becoming one of my faves on here.

Don't forget the clear Nixon/Watergate connection to the JFK hit. Can't miss it.

I think you've got some of the pieces, sure. But the JFK connection there throws a bit of a monkey wrench into the whole Watergate thing, not to mention a certain, timely plane crash.

I can't pretend to know the whole Watergate truth--still a bit cloudy for me. But calling out Woodward is a good job. Can't believe you got so many junks for that one. Good call, that.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 16:15 | 2776681 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Common sense says that Woodward wouldn't be allowed access to events and/or allowed to publish things (real or ficticious) that they didn't allow him/want him to.

And there can only be one reason for this.

 

I'll take "straight from Joseph Goebbels playbook" for $2,000, Alex.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 16:35 | 2776707 Element
Element's picture

Exactly what I was thinking TIS, there's no way such detailed inner-circle direct quotes emerge like that, after a bit over a year.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:38 | 2776750 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Woodward further reports that:

 

"Back in 2009, Obama was furious, and picked up his telephone in order to call Eric Placeholder, to authorize a full-scale, take-no-prisoners, as-many-resources-as-it-takes, investigation, forensic analysis and, ultimately, prosecution of some of the most well known names (of both firms and persons) on Wall Street, for conspiracy, racketeering (RICO -Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act), collusion, price-fixing (e.g. LiborGate) and other statutory and common law violations, but that Timmay Geithner lunged over the President's desk and overpowered Obama, and while pinning President Obama to the floor and stilling Obama with a perfectly executed WWF-style figure 4 leg-lock, screamed "I will not allow this, and I am confident you know who I speak for."

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 17:16 | 2776774 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

It`s called a LEAK, they happen all the time and they have it down to a very intentional art

Whether it`s true and who it`s intended to influence and how and why are completely different issues, and almost never disclosed or dissected publicly.

 

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 15:12 | 2776573 10mm
10mm's picture

Then chaos is shall be.Obammer will not be impeached.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 15:46 | 2776642 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

the 1% inconceivable wealth.

Seeing how the 1%'s wealth was stolen from we the people, I think it should be confiscated leaving a total per 1% of $500 million, period. Same with corporations...

Pay down the national debt with the rest and then let's see where we are.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 04:37 | 2777782 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

Seizing the ill-gotten gains after a forensic audit and returning them to the source would be the least painful solution.  System restore to 1999 so to speak.  

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 23:21 | 2780698 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

No forensic audit needed.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:58 | 2776285 rfaze
rfaze's picture

Mongo no like sheriff Obama.......

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 14:05 | 2776397 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Mongo straight.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 14:32 | 2776467 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Murder, print, borrow, and print.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:04 | 2776196 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

"The extension of women's rights is the basic principle of all social progress."
Charles Fourier

I've been furthering my readings into liberal french philosophy; many would do well to follow my example - posters here are transfixed, paralyzed by our governments borrowing. Well borrowing is exactly what they should be doing. True I campaigned for Obama, but have grown a little disappointed that he panders to much to the capitalist class. What I'm campaigning for now is the most pressing issue of the day: the war on women. We MUST end the war on women, and give more respect to womens rights. Every woman has the right to be treated as mans equal. I'm calling on Obama to do something to get more women into the board rooms. And where employers discriminate against women who want to have children they should feel the full force of the law and have their assets stripped. Oh and the debt ceiling, of course it should be raised. Only rabid right wingers with their one ounce of gold and ten ounces of silver looking at themselves in the mirror all day and thinking they're michael douglas out of wall street would think otherwise

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:31 | 2776241 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

The War on Women?

WTF!

My daughter has grown up under the umbrella of "Womens rights". She now skets around town with impugnity and has no moral base. Men are a means to an end, only. Yet her intellect and talent go unnoticed. How is this an advancement?

Women as playthings, men still in charge.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:36 | 2776353 misnomer00
misnomer00's picture

+1 for your alias..

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:55 | 2776372 MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

Maxipad...

I think you are in the wrong forum.

MDBoner...like the handle...

On a more serious note, the Baltic Dry Index is rapidy closing in on the 52 week low. 

What recovery...???  

 

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 16:47 | 2776727 Element
Element's picture

Nice compilation. 

Asia's major consumer exporters are not plunging all of a sudden in those charts, but trending down rather solidly and similarly, and a regional trend like implies a global structural problem, and those sorts of trends don't turn around so easily with a bit of stimulus and settings changes.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:57 | 2776282 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

MaxiPsycho,

the "war on women" means they want us to continue to pay for their abortions.....you know that, right?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 14:03 | 2776396 Joy on Maui
Joy on Maui's picture

Consider that such is cheaper (not to mention greener)  than 18+ years of welfare subsity.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 15:56 | 2776657 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

It's not ALL about the $$$.

Would dems agree to "rape only" abortions???

It's a moral issue. I'm hoping the "silent majority" comes out to vote, en masse. (90% believe in God, 77% are Christians).

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 17:27 | 2776792 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The fundamentalist Muslim solution is even cheaper, just shoot every unwed bitch that gets knocked up.  Cut two welfare checks with one bullet. 

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:55 | 2777147 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Just so long as the pecker that did the deed is ID'd, cut off, and the remainder spends the rest of its life doing forced labor...

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 14:39 | 2776488 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

It also means that women aren't doing enough as dutiful tax livestock. We gotta get all of those stay-at-home moms out into the workforce earning a taxable wage...or start paying stay-at-home moms the $100K salary they are estimated to be worth.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:13 | 2776311 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Women who seek to be equal to men lack ambition.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 14:27 | 2776455 agNau
agNau's picture

Wrong site.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:42 | 2777124 Zero Debt
Zero Debt's picture

A worthy challenger to the quality of MDB satire has finally arised.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:30 | 2776219 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Those idiots are not in control... These idiots are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvpjM0rkAu4&feature=related

AND, Speaking of idiots! theMAXILOPEZpsycho, your right up there dude...

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:03 | 2776295 Michael
Michael's picture

I'm sure a number of our brand new 30,000 pound bunker buster bombs can open the Rothschild's vaults, so we can repossess the stolen by fraud, USA's peoples owned Fort Knox gold.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 16:11 | 2776676 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Can't let that one pass w/out an up arrow from Clashfan, Michael.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 16:10 | 2776673 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

TY, El O. Calling the right family there--and Bill Still is way cool.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:27 | 2776235 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

To Infinity And Beyond!

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:49 | 2776269 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

We ARE Greece.

We want what we want. We shouldn't have to "inconvenience" ourselves, at all. WE'RE AMERICANS.

Give us our money!

But we don't have any money.

We don't care. Give us our money.

If America falls, so does EVERYONE invested in us......which is EVERYONE.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 19:11 | 2776382 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

911 WARNING!!! 

Rosemary's Baby, AKA POTUS, the pride of the Drag Queen Bride, that aborted God and omitted Israel and Jerusalem, has called for 3 days of 911 National Prayer. http://www.christianpost.com/news/obama-proclaims-3-natl-days-of-prayer-for-9-11-victims-motive-questioned-81276/ 

The blind Laodiceans, that accept the official 911 Report of Lies, are falling for it, and the Harbinger set up is in place for judgment to come. http://www.wnd.com/2012/09/millions-turning-911-into-day-of-prayer-for-future/

There is also a 3 Week Alert in progress for the DOD Gay Pride Military http://www.stevequayle.com/index.php?s=33&d=109 

Angel In The Whirlwind http://defenderpublishing.blogspot.com/2009/04/read-it-before-it-is-banned-by-us.html 

Angel in The Whirlwind Occult Speak http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZuH9lWxS_k&feature=related 

Whirlwind(s) In NYC and Damaging Storm in D.C. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-09-08/okla-storm-deaths/57696152/1 

50 Days http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/159724#.UE0X8o2PUy5 

October Surprises http://www.wnd.com/2012/09/israel-readies-secret-weapon-for-iran-attack/ http://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-to-hold-massive-air-defense-drill-in-october/ 

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4278515,00.html 

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/159740#.UE0Y0Y2PUy6 

http://tribune.com.pk/story/432295/taliban-threat-nuclear-site-in-dg-khan-cordoned-off/ 

http://www.wnd.com/2012/09/middle-east-showdown-looms-over-new-york-skyline/ 

Isaiah 9 Harbingers, all upon this generation now,, and the last debt ceiling speech Rosemaey's Baby gave, he declared victory by; pointing to the 1776 July 4 Second of Sirius 666 Occult obelisk ''Point Within The Circle'' over his shoulder, through the White House (discount window lol) window, he declared was still open for business and still screwing Americans like a drunk whore fallen from the saddle of the (beast posing as King of Kings) Lion of Babylon. http://ferrelljenkins.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/babylon_lion-t1.jpg LMAO. 145 Days after that New World Secular Order of the mark of debt was established, a 5.8 earthquake next to a nuclear plant in Virginia caused the permanent shut down of the symbol of the Presidential sealing of the debt mark upon the whole of American labor which was aborted for the sake of continuing the strong delusion of the market slush fund whores of Babylon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvhZhGeMwoo

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:41 | 2776142 Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

The 'Debt Ceiling' will be raised and Gold will go over $2,000.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:01 | 2776189 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Clint Liquor

For five minutes.

Then Soros sells at a profit because he knows Digital Currency will arrive the next morning during the Great Reset.

What the fuck think is more likely, a new Gold standard or a reset to digital currency? What can be tracked to every last nickel, Gold or a government controlled Digital currency?

Better yet, a Digital currency based on say Carbon credits soo all the shit head Hipsters can feel good about being as Carbon neutral as possible.

Will any of that affect the Uber-rich?

FUCK NO!

Only the little people get scammed and are willing to play along.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:03 | 2776194 Michael
Michael's picture

It's only money, a mental construct that has no value.

Say Bye Bye,

Bye Bye.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:35 | 2776351 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

What will give the "digital currency" value?

Digital currency is just money, without the paper to back it up.

We, basically, have digital currency right now.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:56 | 2776370 Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

My Bank can't even handle 'Direct Deposit' without fucking it up and the whole world will have digital currency? If you need an excuse for why you haven't any Gold/Silver, try confiscation. The logistics of confiscation are daunting, but at least possible, unlike a worldwide digital currency.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 16:03 | 2776668 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

They can't "confiscate" investment in foreign miners.

Of course, the brokerage firm could "lose" my money, with inadequate segregation of accounts......

People here always talk about "physical".

I think, as gold prices skyrocket, mining co. margins improve.

There will always be "costs of production", but ABX, GG, NEM, AUY....

all make more money as gold prices rise.

I believe gold price will rise faster than production costs.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 16:14 | 2776682 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Booger, we are allowed several companies w/my college teaching retirement--I use all three, and w/one (and only one) of them, we have mining options. So I chose the miners, all in, on that one. It has performed the poorest even as gold and silver have risen? Wanna know why? Or should I let you guess? Down 18 percent this year.

Reason--I can't separate gold and silver (or platinum--or other) miners from the iron ore miners. Neat trick. Money vanishes when I put it into miners.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 06:48 | 2777822 MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

It's hard to fathom, but we may soon long for a return to the *paper standard*.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:02 | 2776292 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Gold will go to whatever it takes for our gold reserves to cover our diluted fiat.

$10,000, $20,000, $30,000.

YOU'RE SMART GUYS

What would gold need to be to cover our currency?

"USDollars in circulation/needed gold price per oz."

Assuming we own the amount of gold we say we own. (but that's a different argument).

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:57 | 2776375 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Sure it will,and the US will be lucky to remain AA

rating without some very heavy 'persuasion' of the agencies.

A further downgrade to A  would destroy the banks on margin calls because of their

USTs as tier one capital.Knock out the Shadow banking system

who aren't allowed to invest in anything less than AA.

Add the fiscal cliff,and maybe Obummer being re elected and we have 'perfect'

storm coming together.

A very bleak holiday season indeed.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:43 | 2776144 Capitalist
Capitalist's picture

Mr Geithner is there any risk of a US sovereign default?

Geithner: No risk of that.

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/4651704/

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:44 | 2776150 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:46 | 2776153 Capitalist
Capitalist's picture

Thanks! I tried to embed it myself but failed.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:49 | 2776163 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

 

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

 

-Senator Barack Hussein Obama, in 2006, when he voted against raising the debt ceiling.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:40 | 2776253 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Uhhh...... Ummmmm...... Errrrr.......boy it sure is hot in here.....heh,heh....Uhhhhhmm.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 14:42 | 2776498 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Teleprompter got your tongue?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 18:09 | 2776848 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Nope, it's just stuck in the banker's ass!

-Barry Ochumer

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:47 | 2777135 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

<sic> Stutterer In Chief...

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:22 | 2776229 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Man, I'd just LOVE to turn this prick around a put my boot up his ass so far he'd taste leather for a solid month... Frigg'n moron... and his stupid-ass boss too!

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 18:23 | 2776869 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

The classics never grow old!

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:42 | 2776146 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Obama has already spent his "inheritance"...

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:47 | 2776161 El
El's picture

...and ours, too.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:57 | 2776181 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

I didn't leverage that!

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:43 | 2776147 cdude
cdude's picture

Who needs a "Plan B" when thing always go your way. Plan B's are for losers.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:46 | 2776157 CunnyFunt
CunnyFunt's picture

... And I thought that "Plan B" was capital controls enforced by the police state.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:50 | 2776172 morpheus000
morpheus000's picture

or mere mortals

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:51 | 2776173 morpheus000
morpheus000's picture

or mere mortals

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:43 | 2776259 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Plan B is 'Hope' and it's being peddled quite feverishly.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:55 | 2777144 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

If 'Plan B' is 'Biden Unleashed' I'm digging a deeper bunker. God only knows what that retard would sign as POTUS. If you think O'Boy(here-we-go-again) is dangerous, Captain Joe is the Titanic Captain shouting 'Full speed ahead!'...

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 15:52 | 2776651 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

 I prefer Plan 9 from Outer Space. At least someone put some thought into that one.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:49 | 2776159 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

“I needed this to go past the election, and they didn’t get it for me. This can’t work.”

It "can't work" because it can't be swept under the rug long enough for him to be reelected.  And those two sentences tell you all you need to know about our political system in its current corrupt broken form. 

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:54 | 2776178 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

There is no other form, are you ignorant or just a knave?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:04 | 2776193 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Human beings are corrupt, so corruption is inherent in any system involving human beings.  That doesn't mean you can't make a system work with proper checks and balances.  Are you an imbecile or just uneducated?  I see that you don't know simple grammar.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 15:03 | 2776549 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

We tried checks and balances. Didn't work. We tried the smallest government the world has ever known. It has grown into the largest, most powerful government the world has ever seen.

Repeat until this sinks in...

People are bad, therefore we require a government made up of...People.

or...

Parameter, People = Bad

Parameter, Government = People

While People = Bad Do

Government

Enddo

 

Got it yet?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 17:12 | 2776770 GernB
GernB's picture

No it means you need a system that harnesses that greed to make it work for the public good like, say, capitalism where you allow Bill Gate's greed to enslave him to the publics need for computer products to make businesses and individuals more productive.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 18:20 | 2776865 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

 

Human beings are corrupt

 

So you're on again about original sin and how man needs the intersession of an elite class with esoteric knowledge to lead him to salvation?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:02 | 2777154 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Whew! It's a good thing that the Pope is infallible, then! :>D

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:12 | 2776214 Sofa King
Sofa King's picture

How else can his wife take 12 vacations a year without having to care about money? And she sure loves her caviar and lobster.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:53 | 2776276 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

....and no matter HOW the election turns out, we will pay for them to continue enjoying this lifestyle FOREVER.

 

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:47 | 2776160 pan
pan's picture

Fiscal cliff bitchez!

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:18 | 2776223 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

LIke a snowball gaining momentum going down a mountain...before it goes off the cliff.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 00:52 | 2777622 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Like the old Skier having a train wreck of sorts down the ski jump before flying off the end on the old Broadcast Olympics ....

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:48 | 2776165 Racer
Racer's picture

Why on earth is it called a 'ceiling', you can't go up through a ceiling without causing the house to be seriously damaged

 

Debt .... target... to be replaced by an even higher target as soon as that has been accomplished

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:27 | 2776236 withnmeans
withnmeans's picture

Very correct "Racer", ceilings are for things going up. Yes, the debt is going up, however debt is actually a negative number, it should in fact be going down to a floor. When one spends all their money they reach the bottom of their pile "which is the empty floor", once you go through the floor "guess where that gets you"

The very deep HELL hole we are in right now!!!

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:44 | 2776260 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

We dug it all the way to China...........

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:13 | 2776310 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture

 

 

The Chi Com's will have no problems using their citizens as cannon fodder to alleviate the hunger of the hoardes and who do you think they will go after? 

Are Chinese Banks Hiding “The Mother of All Debt Bombs”?

China: Inflation jumps as economy slows

China issues warning on global economy at APEC

The secretive world of the Communist Party

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 17:09 | 2776762 Element
Element's picture

Again, interesting reads Lori.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 15:05 | 2776555 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

We cut a hole in the ceiling, installed a chimney, and are watching it all go up in smoke

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:51 | 2776174 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

Obama doesn't even have a plan A, unless it is to do everything in his power to bring

the U.S.A. to it"s knees.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:06 | 2776199 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

There is a Plan A. Unfortunately, it stands for "Argentina."

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 17:11 | 2776731 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

Chalky has no plan he does what he is told. If the free shit army really understood this they would riot in the streets- on second thought - They will anyway.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 17:17 | 2776775 GernB
GernB's picture

No the plan is to replace individual freedom with government control so we can mandate equality (and end the corrupt practice of rewarding people for providing things other people want and need)

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 18:50 | 2776925 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Plan B was attached right behind Plan A which was included in his budget proposal.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 11:52 | 2776175 surf0766
surf0766's picture

The plan A and plan B are to spend us over the cliff, end capitalism and install marx/communism.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:06 | 2776197 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

An excellent piece. The congress will cave every time the stock market dips 3%.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:08 | 2776207 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Actually plan B was and is confiscation of 401k's etc.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:14 | 2776215 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

I lost my job because the last debt ceiling debate so FU, and FU all of you who want it. We can't default, so it's an exercise in pain and futility, pain that the people waging it will never feel. Then fucktards like this writer (whatever Tyler it is, eh, really let's be truthful--REPUBLICAN SHILL) is writing gleefully about as he sits comfortably in his Manhattan home living off his stocks. You're such hypocrites. The site is so three years ago, now: old, stale, with nothing new ever to offer. I haven't learned one thing here in months, if not longer. You wasted what could'a been a great site by selling out to the Neo-Cons you fucks. Go stick a cigar up your ass--and leave it there you are aleady all stiffs. I imagine when most posters on this board walk into a room they're own mom leaves, cuz she's even sick of your lies.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:18 | 2776218 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

I haven't learned one thing here in months, if not longer.

You may have a learning disability, making you eligible for government assistance.  

Are you still unemployed?  

What web sites do you approve of?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:45 | 2776262 carbon
carbon's picture

the amazing plan B, how some Havard Students make out in just 6 years, on BBC last night 1 hour show about 

Marc Dreier Born May 12, 1950 (age 62)
South ShoreNew YorkUS Charge(s) Securities fraud
Wire fraud
Money laundering


Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:59 | 2776346 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

 

The site is so three years ago, now: old, stale, with nothing new ever to offer

As opposed to what? MSNBC, CNBC, Whitehouse.gov?

Was this your last whiney rant on this blog or can we expect more chuckles at your expense.

You sound like a "Full Retard" that is jealous of others success, much like the Douche-o-crats in Charlotte.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:34 | 2776243 ltsgt1
ltsgt1's picture

Do you know how to read? It was Obama who didn't have a plan B and was willing to crash not only our economy but the global economy to get his way or the highway. The republicans blinked because they were more responsible regarding the economy.

You probably wouldn't loss your job if Obama had a plan B!

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:16 | 2776314 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

If Obama needs a Plan B he can always get it from Sandra Flucke. I heard she's got a mattress full of Plan B.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:09 | 2776304 Kayman
Kayman's picture

 

Rick

Sorry about the lost job- go create your own- you won't regret it.

As ZH is a tsunami of info and I cannot begin to keep up, perhaps you too, have missed the point.

A consensus (?) of the old Fight Club seemed to agree that both Presidential candidates sold their souls to the Wall Street criminals.

None of them give a rats ass about you.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:48 | 2776359 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Wasting your time, stupid is as stupid does.  The left/right paradigm has been extremely effective in dividing, conquering, and enslaving.  My children will have a business to inherit, if they want it and if it can keep going, but there is no trust fund of riches for their future.  In the meantime, their cousins (children of venture capitalists) recieve 10K per month to simply "play" with.  money that is extracted from the real economy (with nothing of real value created in return) via wall street .  Given the underlying energy crisis, none of this is sustainable and in the not so distant future humanity will be given a choice; we either redefine what "earned income" and "valuble labor" really is or we get WWIII because I can tell you one thing right now. If you think welfare recipients feel "entitled" to their EBT cards, you should see how these elite folks feel about being "entitled" to their dividends.  Neither of these classes of people are actually creating anything of real value in exchange, but one class is certainly living a lot higher on the hog.

Relax, invest in your employees, trustworthy neighbors and family, you are going to need each other in the not so distant future when the supply lines start crumbling.  I have seen at least a couple commoditiy producers default on their contracts already.  when those essential goods and services get hard to find, the shit is going to get real in a heartbeat.  FYI, both of my brother-in-laws have large remote property holdings with former military people already on site and a complete staff to grow and prepare food.  Those in "the club" know what is coming, that much is very clear.  When I visited one site (in Barbados) my brother-in-law brushed off my questions with answers like "well this is just the normal security measure for this part of the island.  Bullshit, a 400 acre plantation in the middle of nowhere needs that kind of security?  Right.... anyone from the island care to comment?  Is Barbados really that unstable?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 14:20 | 2776433 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

Yes, let's talk about supply line. I lost my job because of the uncertianity in the market cause of the debt debate, which led to our downgrade. My company relied haevily on Exports from Germany, which would no longer do buisness with us until more certianity in the USA was assurred. 30 thumbs down. WOW. Someone who has worked hard all their life gets fucked in you people joke about it. It's all about politics with most of you and whomever gets hurt it doesn't matter. This site used to be the best. Solid info, non-partisan, and it took truth to power. No it is nothing more than a bunch of whiney Neo-cons longing for the days before Obama, ya know, when we were hemorraging jobs. This is a real debate that has real conseqeunces. But I get the feeling most of you live off some form of welfare, whehter it be in the defense sector or farming, both of which survive on the largesse of the gov't. OH yeah, BTW, I'm a real retard I gradauted with a 3.92 GPA. You are all so blind that you can't stand any dissent, hence why Cheeky bastard left and a host of others and that was a long time ago. It's doubtful any of you newbie party thugs know that name. You hijacked a site and turned it political. That's why I say FU. Cause you ruined a great site. Congrats. I hope you sleep well in the fact that a site that could have/maybe changed something is now a jok.e In fact, I'm going to send this site to the Daily Show, so all of you can be laughed at everyday. And if Tyler is so proud, why not admit who he is? Did washington hide behind a fake name who stole from someone else (BTW, I should send it to Chuck to so he can sue the shit out of Tyler; I know copyright law, and this isn;t fair use.) The fact is allof you are laughing stocks and I bet everytime you spew your filth in public you are laughed out of the room. You are, not all, most of you, particuarlly the newbies, a bucnh of political hacks. I wouldnt be surprised if ur oaid posters from the Koch Bros. I like CD, who is a nice guy who understands dissent. Byt Tyler, why not come out? Why. You think you are revolutionary but are too scared to give us your real name. And don't give me crap about you can't cause you will be black bagged by Obama's henchmen. If you believe that, you need a room in a hospital cause you're a loon. I used to love you. But now I feel so betrayed that you let this site be hijacked by tea party types. One day, tyler, you will regret that u let a great site go to shit for a few more unique visitors and mo money. Once I thought it was about something. It clearly is not. excpet for Tyler's ever fatter wallet. (Excuse the errors I wrote this very fast). Junk away. I'm 31, not ten, I don't care. The fact there are thumbs down on a site that is supposed to be adult is an issue into itself.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 16:25 | 2776697 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Dude, I'm a "newb" here who remembers Cheeky Bastard's name and read this site for a few years before joining. I'm far from partisan and make enemies b/c of my many attacks on partisanship amongst my friends.

Many folks think the debt is a problem--a banking insiders' strategy to destroy the sovereignty of the US and reduce us all to debt slavery.

Sorry about your job and your disappointment w/the site, seriously, but don't mischaracterize me. I can't stand that. No reason for it.

I've lost my job, too (temporarily), b/c of financial mismanagement at the top of my institution. But you don't see me blaming ZH or the debt ceiling crisis for it.

You're young, man. Grow up and move on. You can make it.

And if you're not learning anything from this site, I don't know where you think you can learn. This site is full of intelligent, well-read folks who offer much. I have yet to find a site with a more informed and engaged readership. If you know of one, please pass it along. I am genuinely curious.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:13 | 2777174 Zero Debt
Zero Debt's picture

If your argument is so strong, why the need for juvenile rethorical devices such as name calling (whiney newbie party thug neo-cons), hypocracy (or introduce yourself), group think (a bunch of), generalizations (all so blind) ?

If you would know your history, you would know that Harding cut the government's budget nearly in half between 1920 and 1922 and the economy recovered rapidly with falling unemployment. The uncertainty about the debt ceiling is FUD spread by TPTB seeking to consolidate more power by proposing The Solution, which is the further enslavement of the population under exponentially escalating odious debts.

Turn your productive attention to the fiat monetary regime, which is the machination behind the escalating debts. Ask yourself whether all this debt is necessary in the first place. Stop debating the "uncertainty surrounding the debt ceiling", stop debating the "debate around the debt ceiling", stop debating "the debt ceiling" and start debating the causes and sources of debt. Read about the gold standard. Study the writings of the Mises institute. Make friends, not enemies.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 14:35 | 2776477 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

I had to comment on your obvious lack of any sort of imagination outise of your mad max scenario (one that you seem to want. I'm sure you'll live at least a year, then will be killed by hoardes.) A 400 acre planation with armed guards? Hmm. Yes it must be preparation for the apocolypse. There's absolutely no way that it could be, say, maybe a drug operation? Cause guess what happens near areas that grow illigal drugs: they get surrounded by fences and armed guards to product their product. You didn't even think of it, which says a lot about you. Now I'm out, but not forever, you people are too fun to bait, it's just so easy like playing soccer with a six year old. I feel so smart. How could you not think that could be a possibility. Notice how I didn;t use one word to insult you like people like you do to me. it's cause I'm a grown up and attack arguments. Youd be wise to atttack arguments instead of launching ad hominen salvos

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 14:44 | 2776503 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Troll harder, someday, should you survive, you might grow up and put on some big-boy pants and then go see what the real world is all about.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 15:04 | 2776552 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

If i am a troll how come my account is six months older than yours? Also, I didn't creeate an account for a long time after I strated reading this site, which was in May 09. That and most of my posts are fairly standard ZH comments. I am just tired of it all. Can you understad that. That after years and years of believing something that never scomes true, tends to make you think, maybe, just maybe I was wrong. It's called self-reflection. Someday u will undertand. Im no troll. Im just a person whose views have changed and is a little peeved at how political this site has become. I mean its practicallly A Romney ad. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That was everything this site was supposed to be agianst. At least, thats how it came off. I feel lied to. and betrayed. And stop with the ad hominen attacks, it's the choice of argument for those of lesser intelligence, like  a bar bully, cause he's too intoxicated to think of anything else. And you seem to be intoxicated by ideas. But tell me, Mr. Physics, what is the real world about. And since you know so much about physics why not share some of your vast knowledge about it or is it just something you thouhgt up so people think you are smart? You Sound like that liar Paul Ryan. All Pols are liars but this guy takes it another level, not unlike you. Ive read your posts.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 15:49 | 2776647 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Rick:

1. Why can't you create your own job ?

2. "Tylers" anonymity (and your anonymity) protects freedom of speech.  Even when the comments become a clusterfuck, it beats watching the MSM.

Good Luck

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 17:15 | 2776756 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

(retracted)

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 17:43 | 2776804 Element
Element's picture

Hey Rick,

You realize you were going down all along right?  You shouldn't by rights be surprised by this, as it was always going to happen in this situation.  You've been in business so you know the score there; the winner takes all and loser takes the fall.  It's always been that way and Govt policy is usually the thing that screws up your best-laid plans, countermeasures and options.  Your life is your actual life mate.

Your former business is not you (bet CD pointed that out to you at some point?).

Best of luck mate, whatever happens.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:17 | 2777181 Zero Debt
Zero Debt's picture

What is your problem with making the current administration responsible for current fiscal policies? Why don't you want to call out mismanagement? Why are you not questioning unsustainable war and welfare spending? Why?

Tue, 09/11/2012 - 00:24 | 2780798 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

zero debt: i am against welfare except for certain cases like those with phyical ailments which stop them from working in any capacity or schizophrenia. I am not against unemployment. That is not welfare. Welfare is something for nothing mostly going to single moms, black and white, to exploit the system cause they are lazy. But what about drug addicts? I believe in welfare for them because I believe they are in a dire situation and if we help them out they will eventually contribute, yes there should be a limit but generally, and i mean heroin addicts specifically, if helped they will change. Germany has a superb program if giving a meager allowance and some drugs to addicts and they've found that after five years, 50 percent or more stop using and become productive members of society for the rest of their lives. Sometimes people need help. And as far as Obama, I mean, what's the other choice, effing Romney? That aint no choice. I wanted to vote for Ron Paul. Not rand. Ron. Also, I believe Obama ended the occupation of Iraq and is the first Pres to stand up to Israel. And to th above posters I want tyler to show who he is, because i've been thinking maybe this whole site is one big boondogle. Dont act like I'm not like you. I love silver. I love gold. I hate debt. Im fairly conservative except socially, not fiscally. I'm a Christian. It's my duty. Sorry God come first. the anonymous shit is floating anymore. it's been over three years. Why not say who he is, unless he is an ex-wall streeter, like they say, and he wants back in. All they so-called tylers do. When was the site created? Oh yeah, after thousands of bankers lost their job and maybe he saw an opportunity to exploit a segment if the population and took it. How do we know> Everyone demands romney's tax returns and Obama's BC but I can ask who runs this site. BTW, Im an investigative journalist and i will find out. Know why I lost my job? I was too ethical. But thos 54 thumbs down have got me going. Wow. I should get an award. Casn we make it a hundred!!!!!! Did u notice how i never once personally attacked you? So why the attacks on me. Let's stick to the issues. The poers that be want nothing more than for us to hate each other. Im just asking questions. Dont just bow down. dont be a muslim. Be an American and stnad up and ask...who is Tyler? Everyone of else is catagorized and watched in some way yet Tyler has managed to keep his name secret for years. Why and How? who benefits? It sounds like an anti-obama site yet he accepts million dollar banner ads from the president. I look to the founders they didnt hide behind secrets when their very lives were on the line. there were no secret pamphelts. Paine put his name on Common Sense. Yet Tyler gets a pass. Word id he is banned from tradinf or fraud, that he is a russian. Yet you all bow down?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 16:30 | 2776701 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Learn something from me now: outside, hordes, apocolypse, illegal, didn't, It's, You'd, salvos needs a period, and your parenthetical needs the period outside, not inside.

Lots of folks on here have different types of education to offer. I'm not sure what school you went to, but if your GPA was that high and you didn't get those English lessons, you should have been at my community college (er, two-year liberal arts institution).

Forever. You

bait: It's

I hope that's all of the errors? Can't tell b/c there are so many.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 14:13 | 2776417 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Boo freaking hoo you whining, sippy cup banging little shit.

Learn a lesson from it princess, find employment doing something actually useful that doesnt depend on Federal involvement or largesse. In short, become part of the productive part of the economy instead of the parasitic part. If not, fuck you.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 14:50 | 2776521 dougngen
dougngen's picture

RICK MASTERS///

Krugman.... is that you??? Damn dude, maybe you can sell your Nobel prize...

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 16:11 | 2776677 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

You, obviously, haven't learned anything the last 4 years.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 17:23 | 2776786 GernB
GernB's picture

You do realize the debt ceiling is just forcing a ballanced budget. Its effect, when not raised is to force us to spend only what we take in. Granted it would be bad because we are not structurally prepaired for it. But think about what that means for a minute. Our markets plunge over the threat we might actually have to spend only what we take in!

Our system is truely and completely sick and broken when it is the end of the world to live within your means.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 18:54 | 2776933 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Don't worry, the pharmacy will reopen tomorrow so you can get you meds refilled.

ZH is a neocon site, LOL

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:28 | 2776238 RobinHood73
RobinHood73's picture

this is precisely why QE is in place. As a backstop to fiscal excess. Soon we will have the Fed monetizing 100% of issuance, from the 60 odd percent of new issuance now. The PONZI lives on for the time being despite how glaringly obnoxious and obvious the whole charade has become.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:29 | 2776239 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

As long as there 27 trillion dollars sitting on the Cayman Islands, the United States does not have a debt problem. Let's repeal the Bush tax cuts, and the deficit reduces by 1/3. Close the Cayman Island accounts and let that be the charge for fat cats using the interstates, the FCC, and the FAA to conduct their US business.

Look at student loan debt. Right now, the banks might consider it an asset on their books, from financial quarter perspective. But if the debt over the long haul never gets paid off, then it's definitely not a collectible debt.

Student loan debt has a ripple effect: what student saddled with loan debt is going to vote Republican? are you kidding me? and what parents, grandparents and extended circle are going to vote Republican? Like Elizabeth Warren sed, it's a rigged system.

I know a family where mom and dad have a quarter-million dollar home, but youngest son has signed up for food stamps. He's likely never to have a job, and he sure as shootin' ain't paying any income tax. Mom and dad figured out how to get some of their own back.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:10 | 2776307 booboo
booboo's picture

"As long as there 27 trillion dollars sitting on the Cayman Islands, the United States does not have a debt problem. Let's repeal the Bush tax cuts"

That make about as much sense as a rubber crutch. You have gone and maxed out your EBT card already this month didn't you?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:38 | 2776344 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Capital controls....yea great idea.

Other great proponents of capital controls:

Hitler

Stalin

Mussolini

Hugo Chavez

Mao Zedong

How about this? Create incentive to keep capital in the country? That could work.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 14:06 | 2776398 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture

 

 

Glad you pointed that out obama reminds me alot of hitler who knows they could be related

 

Still Think That Money Market Fund Is “Cash”?

 

Hitler Jewish? DNA Tests Show Dictator May Have 'Had Jewish And African Roots'

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 17:26 | 2776789 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

First link is dangerous - "still think that money market fund is cash?" resulting in A VIRUS attack which was blocked.

 

BEWARE~~~INTRUSION ATTEMPT~~~

Tue, 09/11/2012 - 00:30 | 2780804 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture

 

 

bunnyswanson Lying sack of sh*t not a thing wrong with that link

Still Think That Money Market Fund Is “Cash”?

Snip

When investors decide to close out their riskier positions and move into “cash”, they don’t actually go to the bank and get a stack of twenties. Most just sell their stocks and let their broker sweep the proceeds into a money market fund which, they assume, is the same thing as cash because it holds high-quality short-term commercial paper that almost never defaults.

That pleasant assumption breaks down as soon as you look at a typical money market fund’s holdings and see that it owns, among other disturbing things, a lot of European bank debt.

But at least you can get your money out with a mouse click, right?

Well, maybe not. Apparently the Fed, cognizant of the potential weakness of the money fund system, is considering withdrawal limits:

Fed Eyes Limiting Money-Market Fund Withdrawals
NEW YORK–The Federal Reserve Bank of New York said it supports limiting some types of money-market fund withdrawals in a bid to protect those funds from suffering the equivalent of a bank run.

The recommendations came from a staff report released Thursday. New York Fed President William Dudley in a press release accompanying the document said he “strongly” endorses the ideas put forth by authors Patrick McCabe, Marco Cipriani, Michael Holscher and Antoine Martin.

“Further reform of money funds is essential for our nation’s financial stability,” Mr. Dudley said.

more

http://dollarcollapse.com/capital-controls/still-think-that-money-market-fund-is-cash/

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 23:02 | 2777432 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

VIRUS ALERT BELOW!

DON'T CLICK!

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 16:51 | 2776730 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Banking for Dummies

For 27 billion to be "sitting" in the Caymans (OR ANYWHERE ELSE) it would have to exist in paper form, which it doesn´t -http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/h6.htm

The digital stuff, however, gets laundered and pushed right back into the  fed fíat ponzi where it can be properly levered.  Tax havens exist to cut down on the government skim of transactions, not to faciliate safe deposit boxes makers displacing the mattress industry.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:20 | 2777186 Zero Debt
Zero Debt's picture

How about repealing the Federal Reserve Act?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:36 | 2776246 Hulk
Hulk's picture

After reading the above, anyone who rules out an overnight financial collapse and thinks this collapse is going to take a decade is out of their mind. Its going to be a firestorm. We are rudderless...

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:59 | 2776286 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

An overnight collapse, no, guess I am out of my mind..  That could happen if enough people were aware but they are not this entire site is populated by outliers, capitalists and government bots, like lick his masters above.. 

No, this will get kicked and kicked again until the circuses stop then the fun starts.   It will seem rapid, but in actuality 6-8 months for as robust a system to fall apart.  An actual overnight collapse, nope.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:05 | 2776300 Hulk
Hulk's picture

I said to "rule it out"  2008 was close to overnight. Things are much more precarious now.

6-8 months sounds reasonable enough, but I don't rule out firestorm. Its now a confidence game and confidence can be lost fast...

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 14:41 | 2776497 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

No offense Hulk, I used to believe as you do, but its been too  many years of any day now and that day never comes. I, for one, can't live like this anymore. I'm going to forget about it all and enjoy life and make money. If it happens, it happens. There really is no prep for total collapse. We will all die. Read General Systems Collpase theory or read about the sudden and vilolent end of the bronze age. No one survived. It's very interesting and I'm sure a lot of people here will enjoy it if they dont know about it already. Rick, out, to tooo tired

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 14:49 | 2776519 Hulk
Hulk's picture

I completely understand Rick. Wise choice...

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:28 | 2776301 Hulk
Hulk's picture

This space for rent...

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:36 | 2776248 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

If it's going to be like that, why not just stop sending paychecks to Congress until they balance the budget?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:37 | 2776249 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

Plenty of SPR to mis-appropriate.

Plenty of Retiree "slush fund" to mis-appropriate.

Nobody to hold their feet to the fire.

Controlled opposition checking themselves in the mirror.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:41 | 2776255 no life
no life's picture

Two words:  Pussy Riot.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:41 | 2776257 Ungaro
Ungaro's picture

Fecal cliff. Let it hit the fan. It is a race against the Eurozone, who can go bankrupt first. USA #1, USA #1...

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:48 | 2776268 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

My plan A is having no debt with money in checking at the local credit union to pay bills while living a sustainable healthy lifestlye having enough food in storage and easy secure acess to physical silver with a couple firearms and ammo just in case and some close friends and family in my circle. My plan B includes gold. Plan C involves platinum, palladium and rhodium. None of my plans involve having money in the rigged U.S stock market and corrupt TBTF banking system.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:51 | 2776272 Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

Good Plan!

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 19:19 | 2776961 Stanley Lord
Stanley Lord's picture

Add Scotch to the mix, very popular in Berlin after WWII

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:55 | 2776278 shushup
shushup's picture

How could he have a plan B when there was never a plan A?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 12:56 | 2776279 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Good. Don't raise the debt ceiling. That wouldn't mean default. That would means :

- PAY THE DEBT OBLIGATIONS FIRST.

- THEN USE THE REST OF THE MONEY TO PAY PROGRAMS

- THEN CUT EVERYTHING ELSE.

That would mean NO DEFICIT TODAY, NOT 10 YEARS FROM NOW.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!