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It's Baaack: FT Deutschland Pronounces Deutsche Mark's Return, Prices Itself At 4.11 DM

Tyler Durden's picture


Curious what the talking heads will be discussing all weekend parallel to the joke that is the European Summit #1, not to be confused with summit #666? Here is the answer, courtesy of the FT Deutschland, where not too subtly, right next to a lede saying "the Euro rescue has turned into a farce", the publication has for the first time, set its price not in zEURo.qq but in Paul Tudor Jones' favorite currency: the Deutsche Mark, or 4.11 DM to be precise. And courtesy of the FTD, we now know the When Issued exchange rate for the EURDEM is: 1.95, the same as was locked at the EUR inception. Said otherwise, stick a fork in the euro, it's done.

h/t Peter


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Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:24 | 1796592 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

BOOM! Goes the EUProject!

How ya like me now? bitchez.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:24 | 1796604 boom goes the d...
boom goes the dynamite's picture

I hear that!

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:36 | 1796670 4xaddict
4xaddict's picture

Amusing in theory but if you believe the 5h1t printed there you also need to believe the UK will single handedly be at war with China based on the ad campaigns they are running in the London underground too...... ppl are either going to agree with me here or their tinfoil hats are going to light up like christmas trees :) 

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:40 | 1796696 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Hey 4X, where have you been? Long time.

And the UK will never fight with China, it's chief partner in the global opium/heroin trade. Too much monies involved. 

But, if it's  being said this openly, then a meme is planted. it is after all the FT, nein?



Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:44 | 1796718 4xaddict
4xaddict's picture

hey mate,

Just busy trading away - check this out and tell me it's not from the FT school of propaganda -

These are all over London, lol.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:01 | 1796798 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

The Euro and Europe will simply be moved to the top grill in the BBQ and left there for a while to dry out, before it inevitablly has a fork stuck in it and thrown away - because at some point no one will want it!

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:03 | 1796810 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Did they say Douche Mark or Deutsche Mark?

I get so confused this early in the morning.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:06 | 1796817 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

First comes love, then come marriage, then comes... war!

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:09 | 1796827 flacon
flacon's picture

FT updated their heading:


"Es gibt kein Zurück zur D-Mark!"

"There is no going back to the D-Mark!"


In the poll on the web page it shows 53% want the D-Mark back. 

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:17 | 1796864 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Exactly. Also the denial is what makes it so true.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 13:23 | 1797635 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Interestingly, the FT has not only revived the Douche-Mark.
It has also resuscitated the ß.
Wasn't the Eszett declared dead and buried along with other ghosts of Germany's past?
What's next, a return of the national socialist party?

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 13:42 | 1797723 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"What's next, a return of the national socialist party?"

Not right now ... they're busy governing the US.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:50 | 1797037 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Well then, it's surely a meme plant. Quick retraction, but th erumor is out.


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:58 | 1797083 Rynak
Rynak's picture


In the poll on the web page it shows 53% want the D-Mark back.

Not the entire truth.... the current stats of the poll are:

54%: Yes.

33%: No.

13%: Yes, but what then?

So, the poll on an euro-pushing german website, currently lists 67% of the audience rejecting the euro, and the agenda of the website itself.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:36 | 1797268 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

I voted "Ja" on that poll...

I figured ZHers should weigh in...

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:55 | 1797332 Rynak
Rynak's picture

By the way, as for the articles contents, they can be summarized like this:

- There is no way to go back to the d-mark

- Oh noes, they didn't decide to agree to the bailouts yesterday!

- How could this have happened?

- Typically europe, they cannot agree on something this important.

- All measures have already been discussed and are ready to be put in place. It is completely absurd, that they now retreat.


The article itself is currently by registered members rated with 2 out of 5 stars. In other words, the article got junked by the readers.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 13:14 | 1797596 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"the article got junked by the readers"

Must be some ZH readers in there. Good ... now we are infiltrating them!

Must order more popcorn ... this is getting interesting. Go, Germans!!!

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:51 | 1797045 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Whoa. More meme meme meme. Anyone notice meme, is me me, such a tell for our times.

Thanks 4X, trippy stuff.


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:03 | 1797105 Dr. Richard Head
Fri, 10/21/2011 - 12:39 | 1797468 Kingbingo
Kingbingo's picture

"the UK will single handedly be at war with China based on the ad campaigns they are running in the London underground too"


What are you talking about, who is they?


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:37 | 1796671 eureka
eureka's picture

Good for US Empire - it has been aiming for this end, i.e. destruction of the Euro and EU for a while.

This will allow US to continue to bamboozle the rest of the world - and its own minions - the 80% of the US population who doesn't and never will own anything at all.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:42 | 1796704 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Then u best be advised to work harder, invest, and live beneath your means so you and your family line can get out of the bottom 80 percent.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 17:48 | 1798721 eureka
eureka's picture

Fuck you idiot - I'm not a US'ian - I'm in the top 3% - I'm not a competitive hegemon pseudo individualist - I help my fellow man - fuck the elite - fuck US empire and fuck your ignorant snootiness

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:03 | 1796808 bullonparade
bullonparade's picture

Whats US empire, u mean a country with 3d world credit ratings thats been lead by the inept for decades? thought u meant America?

Besides a selective default or back door exit would expose America's: "oops, lets cut some trees and make some paper" policies to the market. As a European seeing Europa fecate itself is rather unnerving, however Americans rejoicing over it, proves the ignorance that shrouds the global economy dealing with its own backoffice.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 18:06 | 1798770 eureka
eureka's picture

US Empire is the Ivy Leagues/Wall Street/FED/DC/Langley/Pentagon - extensions and heirs of old UK Empire - all institutions serving the upper 200 or so billionaires and their corporations via "anglo-saxxon" methods of fiat leverage, colonialism and mafia-ponzi bamboozlement.

THEY/IT - are behind globalism, fiat leverage, CDS, derivatives, arms-sales, wars etc.

They are satanists/materialists/egomaniacs - whichever word you prefer.

Anyone who buys into their institutions, as a majority of the income-wise upper 20% of US population, are enablers and enforcers.

US + UK = THE USUKs (my term) - the ponzi-scum of the world.

Those who doen't see it, are blind, who support it, worships Satan/matter/ego and their own little and pathetic individual dominatrix psyche.

It will come to a confrontation. NATO will dissolve. The USUKs are now celebrating their orchestrated and anticipated demise of EU and EUR. Little do they know the horrors that will be visited upon them, when the world at large unleashes the subconscious and strategic and pent up forces upon them.

The USUK hegemons, who think they can screw China by defaulting/deflating USD - AND - EU by rigging it with financial weapons of mass destruction - i.e. US rigged EU bank & sovereign debt - AND GET WAWY WITH IT - and still have the world suck up to its mindless entertainment and lies and infantile myths - have some big surprises coming to them.

I strongly suggest US prepares to close it embassies and pull its personell out of the rest of the world - for it will be fortress US against the rest of the world - very, very soon - and 911 will look like a warm-up - all courtecy of none but US Empire.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:12 | 1796838 SDRII
SDRII's picture

Wouldn’t be so quick to say the EUR breakup is dollar favorable other than very short term. A benchmarked DM? Russian central bank out this morning saying they will be buying more gold. China biggest gold producer. EUR fight is just a warm-up for the IMF. Lagarde move to appoint China national and the reapportionment of votes is the real tell










Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:50 | 1797043 DaBernank
DaBernank's picture

When you work for cheaper than the Chinese, you can have your jobs back, stoopid lazy Amerikaner!

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:40 | 1797290 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Power of the Non-Corporate Local Economy
I don't need your stinkin' corporate job...

I sell my surplus farm produce, reload ammo, clean and repair generator motors and firearms...

Business couldn't be better...

But YOU pay in silver... none of those funny Bernankster Bucks...

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 17:37 | 1798684 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Let's start a movement. Let's occupy the OWS crowd.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 00:56 | 1799571 TMLutas
TMLutas's picture

The Boston Consulting Group came out with a study earlier this year. Production equality date is set for 2015.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:46 | 1796714 sqz
sqz's picture

End of EU project is a bit of a stretch. There are several countries in EU not in EMU/EZ. I doubt even those countries would welcome/accept failure of EU at this point, though I'm almost certain they would want no part of further integration.

To be perfectly honest, the best solution is for the Germans to leave and possibly form their own currency block which includes only a family of traditional creditor nations: Austria, Netherlands, Luxemburg, Finland and possibly Switzerland.

An EU with one more strong currency or two currency areas would work and be far less unstable than the current system. It would free the Eurozone's ECB, now full only of large debtor nations, to ZIRP, QE, devalue and print to their little heart's content - so solving their debt problems the debtors way.

Also, it would make a lot more sense for both *those* blocks to attempt fiscal unions and have their own unified public debt markets in the long run, than attempting to do the same with the current EZ.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:50 | 1796752 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

It took 31 years to implement the EURO. How long to do what you suggest?


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:53 | 1796773 gojam
gojam's picture

within 31 days. The DMs are already being printed.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:00 | 1796797 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

I think the drachma is ready and waiting.  Should give the Zimbabwe dollar a "run for it's money".

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 17:39 | 1798692 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Let's call it the Zombibwe dollar, shall we?

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:43 | 1797300 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

The Irish Punt is being printed and warehoused...

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:08 | 1796816 sqz
sqz's picture

Germans prepare for every eventuality.

You are aware that Germany has been pulling out their old stock and printing new stock of DM this year, right? And that over 70% of the population think the Euro is unworkable?

A country merely changing currency would not take long at all, especially with sufficient preparation. And, yes, Germany is well used to doing this, if you read your history.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:45 | 1797308 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

The days of the pro EU, pro Euro, Chancellor (M)Urkel-ator are numbered...

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 12:08 | 1797383 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Where are you guys hearing about the punt, drachma and DMs being printed?  Didn't gGErmany warehouse and store the old DM currency?  I thought they saved it just in case.   Most Germans hated the Euro when it was launched - ditto most Italians.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:19 | 1796873 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Lesson of the Euro: One size does not fit all. 

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:54 | 1797335 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture


the DollarZone is quite similar to the EuroZone and the States can have budget deficits and all...

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 01:00 | 1799575 TMLutas
TMLutas's picture

Just about every US state has a balanced budget requirement. Depending on how you count it, it's 45+ and as high as 49.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:15 | 1797165 AbelCatalyst
AbelCatalyst's picture

Um, I called this two days ago.

See the first post here:

Admittedly, I was not alone as others pointed out, but not a bad call!!

Double down on EUO while it is down today!! Great opportunity (maybe - who knows in this blizzaro market!!)

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 14:56 | 1798067 Tinfoil Hat
Tinfoil Hat's picture

You say somethin?

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:42 | 1796710 i-dog
i-dog's picture


[original hasty [enthusiastic!] comment deleted after reading the actual FTD article titled: "Es gibt kein Zurück zur D-Mark!" (There's no going back to the D-Mark!). Apologies to those who uprated me.]

I still do hope that Germany will go back the the DMark, because it is our only strategic hope against the globalists. We must destroy their home base: the EU/EZ.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 12:09 | 1797387 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I was not aware of being a globalist. The horror!

I'll send my Euro-Armies and my Euro-Fleets to find and trash you ;-)

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 13:23 | 1797630 i-dog
i-dog's picture

I'm talking about the control structures and bEUROcrats, not the people ... just to clarify [for others who may be tempted to junk you].

BTW, when you send out the Euro-Fleet, check out the Spanish navy ... They have glass-bottomed boats so that they can view the last Spanish navy they sent out! ;)

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:04 | 1796763 RemiG2010
RemiG2010's picture


Well, Europeans will have to work on new EuroProject. What's the big deal! The political EUProject stays intact, maybe with few changes in Lisbon Treaty and this time around no one is allowed to f..... it up! No more GSquid currency swaps! No more eurostat data manipulation, metodology tweaks! No more other goodies....

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:54 | 1796776 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

I made a rather large bet with someone that the DM would be back by today. Guess what, i won.

Should i collect, or let him off the hook?

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:15 | 1796856 barkster
barkster's picture

depends on the currency the bet is in. if it's euros or dollars he is already off the hook...

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:17 | 1796862 Money 4 Nothing
Money 4 Nothing's picture

Collect in Silver n Gold. Be the bet maker, not the bet taker.

Give this article a little time to settle in and correct vetting though. 

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:38 | 1796599 gojam
gojam's picture

Ha! 1.95. Won't stay there long. And if they try and peg it then more problems later.

Here's a link to the full plan as seen on Dr Malmgren's blog a week ago.

Got to feel sorry for the Dutch and Austrians both are AAA and it looks like they're stuck with the zEuro

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:49 | 1796742 dearth vader
dearth vader's picture

They won't. As Deutschland goes, so go the Dutch. They'll revert to their guilder (gulden = golden), and peg it to the D-mark.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:51 | 1796765 gojam
gojam's picture

I was hoping they'd resurrect the old Hanseatic Thaler. Austria, Germany, and Holland but I guess there too much history in between.

 Who wants Anschluss ??

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:48 | 1797315 citrine
citrine's picture

Thanks for the link: interesting analysis.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:24 | 1796601 The4thStooge
The4thStooge's picture

and so it begins...

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:50 | 1796754 Ethics Gradient
Ethics Gradient's picture

What? Turning alternative media into a laughing stock?

All the work that Tyler and co have put into making ZH a credible website has been undone with a single blog post.

They've suffered from a bad case of premature publication on this one. Worse though is that some will say it was intentional.

FTD was actually saying that there's no going back.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:19 | 1796870 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

I don't think you quite get the whole ZH thing...

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:56 | 1797069 i-dog
i-dog's picture

I think you're both right! ... Ethics and Sam ... and it's disappointing on both counts. :(

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 18:24 | 1798855 eureka
eureka's picture

there IS no "whole ZH thing" - ZH reader-commentators/debators (ZH-RCDs) are split along all issues of significance at ratios of 1:1 and 1:2.

About 1/2 to 2/3 of ZH-RCDs are US hegemons, love US Military-Financial-Empire, while at the same time ca. 1/2 of this Hegemonic Contingent "don't like the FED.

US'ians in general like to think they can simultaneously blow AND suck - a result of 100 years of "superiority-complex" propaganda from DC/Madison Avenue/Hollywood.

With so little ability to connect dots into comprehensive systems analysis - and - so little will to face reality and modify personal views and behavior, it is no wonderf that the US is split down the middle and ripped in zig-zag division across the Federation - and thus NOTHING gets done, because every interest is entrenched.

Of course it is a delightful distraction for a nation in such disarray to marvel at the apparent disintegration of other nations and unions, like China, and EU. Alas, enjoy, for it won't be long before the foucs inevitably must swing back the beam in their own eyes - that is, if they haven't gone blind before then.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:43 | 1796999 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

take credibility and shove it up your ass sideways.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:58 | 1797081 The4thStooge
The4thStooge's picture

And mainstream media is what? Something other than a laughing stock?

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:20 | 1797156 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

ZeroHedge BUSTED


just kidding

no, I think one article too early and with the content upside down is not going to "turn alternative media into a laughing stock", particularly not my beloved ZH

IMO there is ONE Tyler that has a small bout of "Euro-madness" and this causes (still only my very humble opinion) a LOT of let's say strange articles about the Euro-Mess

the best theories I have about it:

- this Tyler refers to how bots work on news and correlations (and experiments with ZH)

- this Tyler firmly believes on what business schools teach about certain correlations and models (and IMO forgets that the Euro is a common currency which should be treated as a "new" game anyway - don't get me started on the models)

- this Tyler is just firmly convinced that EURUSD "belongs" more properly on the 1.300 level (IMO 1.425, but I am just an old fart and I know markets are not rational)

Disclaimer: my business model forces me to fully hedge the EURUSD, I could not care less, just curious - privately I still try to be a dinosaur (buy and hold) and my avatar is just to get some people enraged - which invariably spout some trash they were reading in some Murdoch Media.

I hate nationalism of the brand "because I'm stupid" and I still don't see why the debt issue should be that much related to a common currency that was designed NOT to be directly related.

Question: if California defaults, is this bullish or bearish on the EURUSD? Answer: I have no bloody clue and I seem to be the only one. Repeat the question for Greece.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:37 | 1797277 The4thStooge
The4thStooge's picture

We need to get a printing press to Cali stat!

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:55 | 1797342 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

well, the Gubernator once printed IOUs

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 14:13 | 1797862 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

If California defaults much of the country will point and laugh.

If, however, Uncle Sam tries to bail them out we will see the biggest internal fight since 1861 which is no laughing matter- and may walk that road again. It would be explosive.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:25 | 1796605 speconomist
speconomist's picture

That's the fixed exchange rate from 1 January 1999!

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:27 | 1796619 Instant Wealth
Instant Wealth's picture

to be more precise: 1,95583

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:36 | 1796667 Instant Wealth
Instant Wealth's picture

Wait, I forgot 10 years of crypto-inflation .. *calculate*.. 5,07292

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:02 | 1796805 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Precisely.... if the german population would get what they deserve, simply trading back in the EU-inception exchange rate, would be a joke..... by the amount of inflation, that has been offloaded to the population at inception, and then afterwards, you'd basically have 75% inflation in 10 years - and quite probably more than that.

But that practically is not really feasible.... the shortterm shock would be too high. A more sane path would be, to exchange at let's say 1,25, and put all ressources into strenghtening the domestic market and put tariff shields fully up... and then DEFLATE the currency further over a timespan of 10 years to lets say 3x of current EUR.

But then again, since in kleptocracy-land you never deflate currencies and never reduce taxes, i'd prefer a high initial exchange rate, instead of doing it "efficiently". You know, if "fair", "sane" and "efficient" is off the table, it's "us vs. them".

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 12:01 | 1797358 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

and then DEFLATE the currency further over a timespan of 10 years to lets say 3x of current EUR

This doesn't make sense.. It starts at 1.25 then deflates to 3X ?? Want to take another stab?? Keep in mind, Germany needs to export.. If you think the DM will come in and essentially double (or triple) the price of German goods for markets around the world, you are living in a dream land.. That's the last the Germans need..

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 12:14 | 1797372 Rynak
Rynak's picture

I and the majority of germans have this to say to you:


We have for fucking multinational megacorps, reduced our purchasing power by 75%, and turned our domestic market into a wasteland... we have completely sold out our livestandard and internal economic health, to large exporters, and now you and other assholes want to tell us, that WE NEED THAT? Go. Fuck. Yourself. There will be no further significant inflation or cuts, without blood on the streets. See, you've have already shot all the powder you have - there simply is no tolerance left for further reductions. So, you're check mate: The system is unsustainable without further green shots, and yet you have already reached the limits of what the population takes without unrest. Game over, sir.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 12:41 | 1797475 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

You should probably investigate what has happened to Germany over the past 10 years or so... No Euro, and Strong DM means there will be MUCH less exports... You're simply not very well read in the subject.. Why do you think Germany has been in it this long?? Because they are so charitable??  NO.. Because it profits them.. but, it is now going the other way and the additional exporting is not worth it.. so they are doing the right thing.. But making a DM that strong will hurth them.. A strong DM is good, an excessively strong DM will be fatal..

Quit bitching like a little cunt.. Go pay for sex if you have to.. just settle the fuck down and listen to reason..

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 13:34 | 1797584 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Mr. Asshole: "Hello, my name is Mr. Asshole, and i'm an economic sociopath. I've joined this group, because i just cannot understand the recent anger towards me."

"Hello Mr. Asshole. So, what is it you don't understand?"

Mr. Asshole: "Well, we provide all those nice exports to them. And they totally fail to understand how they need us."

"Err, why do they need you?"

Mr. Asshole: "Err, GDP, jobs, and stuff.... must win the global race to the bottom!"

"Hmm, let's try this again. Why does the POPULATION need you?"

Mr. Asshole: "Well, they need jobs - and we provide them!"

"Erm, actually, it is not you that is providing the majority of jobs - at least, not BEFORE you pushed local competitors out of the economy."

Mr. Asshole: "But, we're still providing jobs!"

"At wages and workhour loads, lower than neccessary for the population to sustain itself. Which is why the gov has to step in, and pay the difference via (stealth-)taxation in the form of benefits. The lower tax incomes from the ruined domestic market also doesn't help much about you actually creating a DEFICIT in the nations budget. By the way, do you pay any taxes at all, or do you just reinvest all surplus revenue into expansion?"

Mr. Asshole: "But, then everyone will go elsewhere! Global race to the bottom!"

"Everyone? Who is this everyone? Exporters? See, the population has a demand for things anyways - the question is just if there is someone able to satisfy them. If yes, there is a market."

Mr. Asshole: "But, there isn't enough producers without us, that can do this!"

"For now, yeah - because you destroyed them."

Mr. Asshole: "This doesn't work. Free markets and stuff.... if someone else can produce cheaper, things just will be imported - how are they going to pay the imports?"

"Erm, tariffs"

Mr. Asshole: "What's that? I never heard of that. And anyways, you didn't answer my question - how are they going to pay imports?"

"By producing just enough exports, to afford the imports. However, what use are exports, that result in a local deficit? I mean, if you discount wages below sustainability, and then pay the wage difference to the workforce via taxation or debt - thus basically, the population PAYING you to produce... then how have you gained anything to pay imports with? This is like saying, that paying others to buy one's own goods, makes one rich..... oh wait, there is already something like that - it is called the european monetary union"

Mr. Asshole: "I don't understand what you mean."

"Well Mr. Asshole, you came here for help. I think the only help we can give you, comes in the form of a bullet."


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 13:46 | 1797744 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

Your anger to knowledge ratio is way off.. way off...

Nations that export more than import are strong.. The US became in import (more import than export) nation in 1971..  It has gone DOWN hill ever since for this country..   If you cannot swallow those facts because your angst has overpowered every sense of your being, well then, so be it..  You should consult a doctor, your health will soon follow the path of your anger..   We know you are tired of paying for other people... But losing sight of reason isn't going to make it better...

I long for the DM.. and I hope it's valued comparable to that last DM.. I sell German product.. I know many others that sell German products.. I know what i'm talking about.. If the DM is 3X stronger than before, Germany will lose exports and their ability to have a sound fiscal policy will be jeopardized..  Not matter how upset that makes you, it's the truth..

ps.. you fucking hot headed kraut

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 14:17 | 1797810 Rynak
Rynak's picture

I don't fucking care about your "knowledge", as long as it contradicts basic maths and empirical evidence.

The basic maths is: If A pays B, so that C can pay less to B. C isn't contributing - it is a leeching parasite, while A plays the "host"-part.

The empirical evidence is: Since the introduction of the euro, along with an increased focuss on discounting the workforce, the population has gone from rich to impoverished - WOW, now thats a "strong" country..... but the statistics look so great.... GDP and shit.......  so everything must be great! Well, it certainly is for the parasites! And it is only the parasites which you and other economists care about - you don't give shit about the population... all you care about is crony parasitism.

Oh and by the way:

If the DM is 3X stronger than before,

DM = 1

EUR shortly after introduction = DM /2 = 0,5DM

EUR 10 years later aprox = prev EUR /2 = 0,25DM

Rynak proposes x3 deflation = 0,25 * 3 = 0,75DM

0,75DM != 3,00 DM

Maths, do you speak it?


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 15:58 | 1798352 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Business is always a triplicity.

Raw material manufacturer first line manufacturer, distribution network, end point of sale.

In this triplicity 2 out of the 3 prongs are always trying to screw over the 3rd prong.

PC stores were a fucking laughing stock in the 80's and 90's you could make more money selling stereos or paper clips. Because the distribution network always wanted the end seller to take all the responsibility for support for 1/2 as much margin as it got.

Farmers make 9 cents when bread company makes 3 bucks.etc etc.

And they want to make everything centralized. People actually buy powdered sugar at a huge margin when all they need is a blender or food processor powerful enough to chop up sugar granules which isn't very powerful.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 16:56 | 1798564 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Good point, i definatelly agree, that the economic structure is very important as well.

An additional aspect, that i would like to bring into play, is design and maintenance complexity of products. I'm sure it hasn't escaped you, that complexity of products is exploding.

The question that i would ask: Does the consumer need that? Strike that, does the consumer even WANT that, or is he instead confused by it, and only made to buy into it via market saturation and marketing onslaught?

And it's not just the consumer: An increase in complexity, and amount of product models in a given timespan, has radical consequences for the manufacturer, distributor and retail.... and i mean consequences in expenses. To bring up just one consideration: How much lower could one push one's own prices, by lowering complexity to that which is needed, and invest a bit into platforms that are longterm maintenance friendly and optimization friendly? That also goes for especially retail.

Or phrased another way: how much could one push up reliability, which is part of quality, at the same expenses, thus enabling oneself to lower SOME expenses, raising other expenses, and keeping the price/quality ratio unchanged?

I guess, what i'm trying to say is - it isn't only wages and sales price that matter.... a lot of other factors are far from optimal imo.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 12:47 | 1797487 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

What are you going to do with all those cars if they're too expensive for the rest of the world to buy?  The last time I was in Germany, there wasn't that many parking places available for them.

Germans, like Americans, cannot expect to be paid an order of magnitude (or more) than the Chinese indefinitely.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 13:30 | 1797600 Rynak
Rynak's picture


What are you going to do with all those cars if they're too expensive for the rest of the world to buy?  The last time I was in Germany, there wasn't that many parking places available for them.

Answer: If you cannot bring down prices via lower wages, because the nation rejects to PAY your wages (which happens, when you pay less than needed for the workforce to sustain itself)..... and if the market does not accept the resulting prices.... then you have to bring down prices in other ways - which usually means: lower quality.

Yeah i know - junk is bad. But the problem is: Imagine you as a freelance producer. You are capable of producing great quality goods, but the market just doesn't want to pay up. What do you do? Do you cut yourself in the arm and slowly go broke, by selling at lower price than your expenses??? No, if the market just doesn't want to pay fair price for good quality, you discount quality.

Someone pays shit, you deliver shit quality.

Someone pays good, you deliver good quality.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 15:23 | 1798189 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

"Someone pays shit, you deliver shit quality.

Someone pays good, you deliver good quality."


Excellent point Rynak, + 1.

And that is EXACTLY what you see in the global rolling bearing markets.  You want to change out the wheel bearing for your Mercedes?  You will likely pay more for the German, Swedish or US bearing.  For your Hyundai, well buy the Korean Iljin.  You want the cheapest ("Precio Nada Mas"): Chinese...

You get what you pay for.


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 15:32 | 1798222 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

It is a good point.. but has NOTHING to do with what i'm saying.. If the DM is artificially inflated to 100%-200% of Purchasing Power Parity then it will no doubt be a drag on exports..  yes, you get what you pay for, anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together knows that and can tell the difference between that philosophy and the point i'm trying to make here.. to a ranting lunitic who can't think straight because he's so pissed about paying for Greece's debt..  

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 16:46 | 1798538 Rynak
Rynak's picture


DM = 1


EUR shortly after introduction = DM /2 = 0,5DM


EUR 10 years later aprox = prev EUR /2 = 0,25DM


Rynak proposes x3 deflation = 0,25 * 3 = 0,75DM


0,75DM != 3,00 DM

I never argued for 300% of the original purchasing power of the DM. I argued for the german population being screwed by "only" 25% instead of the aprox. 75% which is the case now. I think 25% price inflation/wage deflation in a matter of 10 years, is not too much to ask for.... 75% is just ridiculous, and if this weren't conformist germany, a lot of people would be dead by now - no one except of china and germany would have put up with such an insanity.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 17:26 | 1798646 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

I think I understand what you are saying but as a currency trader you are making it hard for me to follow.. I remember being in Germany a couple years after the Euro came and was told the story about how pricing started off as a conversion 2:1 but then the prices of things in Euro quickly went up to what they were in DM.. The Germans therefore saw a lot of inflation with the introduction of the Euro.. This is something I rarely hear discussed..

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 18:27 | 1798762 Rynak
Rynak's picture

That part of history, is the "euro shortly after introduction = 0,5DM" part of my above post.

After that initial ripoff..... which i would consider impossible to pull off in other countries (the last country where that happened a few months ago, went hyperinflation), if it weren't for the highly conformist mentality of germans (there were mass-protests, but they were not strong enough to overcome the "it's for the greater good - we are all one big yurop"-propaganda... however, germans until today did not forget this "promise" of the EUR... they were told, that this big sacrifice was neccessary to make everything better in the long run, and make europe as a whole powerful..... which is, why now there is almost zero tolerance left for further sacrifices, after this promise is revealed to be a farce)....

...where was i? Ah, after that intial ripoff, the EUR in germany inflated much slower (after all, anything seems "slow" after you get whacked with 50% inflation in just one year)..... however, two aspects happened over the following timespan up to today: Above DM inflation-rates continued, and wages catched up very little - actually, shortly after the introduction of the EUR, widespread cuts in social services and unemployment benefits were quickly pushed through, as well as draconian measures regarding what kind "effort" (that's phrased diplomatically) unemployed must show, to not be put on the streets and becoming homeless..... the official explanation again was, that it's all for the greater collective good, and that germany just cannot afford it...... i'm talking about austerity measures far beyond what right now is proposed to greece.... oh yeah, mass privatizations of public property also happened....

...anyways, one result besides of the gov getting a massive influx of cash, has been that literarily.... anyone unemployed must take ANY job regardless of the conditions.... actually, via special laws, they are required to take jobs where the employer pays ONE EURO PER HOUR (with a trivial extra amount being .... state-sponsored from (stealth-)taxation).

Do i even mention the result? I don't think so..... actual inofficial wages not just failed to catch up with inflation.... but actually DEFLATED in spit of inflation.... ON TOP of the 50% cut during euro introduction.

Then over the next 10 years, further above average price inflation happened.... which i estimate over the entire timespan of 10 years.... compared to DM prices... to total an additional 50% inflation. (thats the 0,50 /2 = 0,25 DM part).

All this for..... state- and population-sponsoring exports.

Maybe at this point to can get a shallow idea, why i react furious when people argue that germans should be happy about export-obsession, and that they're "benefiting" from it.

Simply imagine this happing to you, and all your friends, buddies, family - actually the entire environment around you.... and imagine how not just the economy changed, but how society and culture changed around you.

This, is why germans aren't "in" for further sacrifices.... they are already near before boiling point and it is just a few inches left to light the fuse.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 16:24 | 1798479 Rynak
Rynak's picture

The interesting thing is, that somewhere around the midpoint, there is a sweet spot. It's the area, where quality - while perhaps not "incredible" - is "good", and reliability and robustness is high.... at that sweet spot, you in the long run actually pay LESS for maintenance/replacement, than for cheaper goods (the cheaper ones however, will have lower initial costs).

So, in terms of longterm price-efficience for a buyer, a reduction in manufacturing costs (sans workforce costs), can actually still be cheaper, than junk. At that point, the deciding factor isn't "longterm total costs" anymore, but purely.... greed and desperation.

Sure, at that price point, you usually do not get "fancy" and "luxury" stuff.... what you get instead, is dominance in overall efficiency for the consumer. It's not stuff to show off with, and neither is it junk - it's just stuff, that works.

And considering the global economic situation, as well as my wishes about the lifestandard of the german population, this sweet spot IMO is, what german production should shoot for. Another interesting aspect is, that this pricepoint usually has most of the costs in design, and is optimization-friendly for mass-production.... so unless one creates new product models every year, one may even be able to drive the price down to somewhere between "low" and "mid".

That's not hypothetic btw.... i have seen quite a few german manufacturers manage to do just this, during the timespan between 1995-2003. I loved those manufacturers during that timespan... not el-cheapo, yet affordable initial prices, and stuff that just works without oneself having to pay for pimp features.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:26 | 1796607 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Interesting, since the FT (UK) is a massive promoter and supporter of the Euro project, and has been consistently critical of the UK for not joining it, although even they may have re-considered this view in recent days.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:32 | 1796646 paarsons
paarsons's picture

Brothers and sisters,

We are fucked with a capital "F"!

Like Kubla Khan, I hear my ancestral voices prophesizing war.

But what's a boy to do?


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:36 | 1796665 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Please stop.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:39 | 1796689 paarsons
Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:41 | 1796697 schadenfreude
schadenfreude's picture

If you read the article it is quite clear that FT is a massive promoter of the Euro project. The headline is just a wakening call.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:26 | 1796609 Zola
Zola's picture

Is that under or overvalued compared to the Euro ? 

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:40 | 1796691 gojam
gojam's picture

Undervalued. Look who's left. Belgium, France, Greece, Malta, Italy, Spain, Ireland, Portugal, Luxembourg.....................

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:41 | 1796703 Beastmanager
Beastmanager's picture

And who are they going to sell BMWs to?

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:14 | 1796843 Rynak
Rynak's picture

To the same they now sell to, but at fair (much higher) value. Wait, you say exporters don't want to pay fair wages and depent on stimulus, paid by german population - you mean, the population has to PAY to be employed? Well, then good riddance.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:28 | 1796614 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

Is this why the Berstank said he may have to raise interest rates ? I suspect he will have to jam them way higher on the short end to try and catch the dollar plunge. If he succeeds and rates ramp don't the metals then fall off a cliff ?  No clue here.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:49 | 1796748 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

I agree that you have no clue.

When interest rates start to rise, money will pour out of the Treasury market.  You understand how much money would be lost holding treasuries if interest rates merely doubled to 6% or so?  It implies that you lose half your principal.  Dividend yields will increase to compete by way of stocks dumping.  Metals will not fall off of a cliff, because they are not on a cliff.  Gold and silver are still extremely cheap.  And there will be no place else to go.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:27 | 1796615 Hearst
Hearst's picture

It almost looks like a Silver Mark.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:36 | 1796664 Minoan
Minoan's picture

The 10 mark coin from 1987 to 2001 was silver.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:52 | 1796767 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Gee, I sure hope this doesn't affect the value of my Gold Philharmonikers.

BWAAA HAAA HAA HA! Suck it, fiat.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:06 | 1796818 DaBernank
DaBernank's picture

Love my Phils! With the face value stated in Euros, the Phils from the past few years might be collectibles too.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:19 | 1796869 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

According to this source, the 5 mark coin was 62.5% silver from 1951 to 1974. The 10 mark coin was commemorative only.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:13 | 1797102 Minoan
Minoan's picture

You are absolutely right,but the 10 mark mintage was so extented that can't be considered collectible.Besides,silver price back then was low.Face value was greater than commodity value.Once,in the late 90s,i was given one of these as change in Germany(less than 10g pure content=1.5$ or 2.5 DM)

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:26 | 1796898 TIMMAYYY
TIMMAYYY's picture

recently moved to Germany and decided to stock up on some more silver...having a 7% VAT....who the hell myself some of these coins as well...junk to line the pockets...stash the real deal somewhere else...

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:27 | 1796616 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Sure am glad I threw all those old DMs in the beer stein 20 years ago.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:27 | 1796618 abugarance
abugarance's picture

...while USD getting a double anal today...doesn't look like price action reflecting a euro melt-up...

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:34 | 1796654 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Well as long as bullshitass equities are up....thats all that matters.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:52 | 1796768 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:41 | 1796698 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Who has faith in the dollar other than stay at home boomers who use etrade as an entertainment device?

The EUR/USD debate is ludicrous; they are both worthless, and monetary policy means both policy making groups want to see their currencie lower; but who wields the most power?  Bernanke does, as all assets are denominated in dollars.

Bernanke wins.  Why do you think he has been so smug lately?

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:46 | 1796730 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:00 | 1796784 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Exactly.  Just like WWII, which was started by the funding of Nazi sympathizers by the Bank of Brown Brothers, Harriman (Presided by Prescott Sheldon Bush), the Military Industrial Complex has dug its heels into the whole world physically, and monetarily.

War in AFrica, war in the Middle East, war up North, and war down South; everywhere is war!  But the wars are smokescreens, as the US never wins one.  The real weapons are Bernanke's Printing Press by the issuance of inflation, and Congress' fiscal policy, and the creation of deflation by insane leverage ideas such as "affordable housing".  Together these spin the web that the Nation States have fallen into.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 12:57 | 1797536 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

There's nothing like a big, nasty hot war to get all those factories humming and the profits zooming!


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 18:54 | 1798934 eureka
eureka's picture

Remember 911? Remember how US economy tanked - and needed first Greenspan and then Bernank to print to facilitate a housing bubble as substitute for the tech bubble? Remember the fall 2009 and spring 2009 Wall Street crashes?

Now - connect dots time - focus hard now - how many new 911s would it take to tank US economy for the fourth time in ten years.....?????

usa usa usa up a pony's ass - usa is going down... hegemon moron losers

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:28 | 1796620 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Should be good for about a 3% gain today.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:29 | 1796625 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

ACTUALLY the story says no going back to the D Mark....

Sorry Bitchezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:32 | 1796649 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Does it say anything about the likely outcome of the next two meetings from a German perspective.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:31 | 1796920 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture


Exactly, so it's all a bit confusing. German humour? 


Eurozone is in deep crisis, but the EU political union is as tight as ever judging from the bickering that's going on amongst member states. The sort of intense bickering you see in any large tight knit family. It's when the bickering stops families break up completely. I think Greece has been permanently committed to a mental institution, with each family member contributing a little towards nursing care until it dies, which may or may not be soon.

Euros, Deutchmarks, Francs, Drachmas, Venusian Vaginas, Martian Floppydicks, it matters not if nobody desires whatever you call your currency. Holding worthless bits of paper or electronic bits on a bank server is a losing battle against inflation. No matter how hard you worked to acquire it, it's worth a little less at the end of the day, even more at the end of the month, and so on for as long as we have irresponsible arseholes controlling the money supply and throwing it away to their bumchums in powerful government/corporations. 


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:58 | 1797349 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture


you made my day

yes, our old Auntie Hellas is mad as a bat, but frankly, not that much different as Sister Espana and Sister Italia except in degrees... we can't be too harsh with them...

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 13:03 | 1797558 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Auntie Hellas is crazy like a fox.  She used to have to drive a Yugo.  Now she has a nice new Merc with A/C too.  She's always had just her old olive press to pay for them.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:30 | 1796628 SheepDog-One
Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:29 | 1796631 Trying to Understand
Trying to Understand's picture

I am not clear on this: is it to be a dual currency country or is Germany completely abandoning the Euro for a single currency?

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:30 | 1796634 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Any translation of the FTD piece.

Are they really suggesting this as a high probability.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:36 | 1796669 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

No they are not.

In fact the piece in the FTD suggests that it is not a good idea.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:38 | 1796685 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

'Not a good idea' as in 'It would blow up the joke known as the Euro'.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:40 | 1796693 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

The last paragrapgh Google translated:

Admittedly, in view of these sums is one dizzy. Billion's defense is a big experiment that can go wrong. Germany raises at least ten percent of its economic output to the front. But the alternative of doing nothing or even the D-Mark would re-introduce, for the really big disaster Germany.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:43 | 1796711 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Well, what can you say....economic/monetary world war is hell!

And make no mistake, thats just what we're in.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:20 | 1796877 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Just "who" is this "germany" anyways? A disaster to whom? And the EUR has been a godsent for whom? 75+ % inflation in 10 years, with almost no wage catchup..... the domestic market is in ruins, with the middleclass and lower-middleclass almost completely wiped out


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:55 | 1797340 Freddie
Freddie's picture

If the German govt put it to a vote of the German populace - the DM would return.  I thought the Germans actually never destrpyed DM and DM coins and have them in storage.

The Italians also want the lira back and ditto the Dutch with Guilders.  

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 12:13 | 1797395 Reptil
Reptil's picture

yah better be with the 2,314 exchange rate (that they fucked us over with when the euro was introduced)
payback time bitchezz

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 13:06 | 1797569 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It's rumoured that California wants the peso back too.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 13:31 | 1797674 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

even Barona Casino in SD is taking beads and shells as currency

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:03 | 1797104 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

The media saying it's a bad idea probably means its the best idea.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:30 | 1796636 Robert Neville
Robert Neville's picture

The title translates to there is no going back. I wonder what’s in the story.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:45 | 1796722 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

German is a funny language you have to think a bit differently, my wife is German she says this headline says 'There is no back', and says we'd say it as 'Theres no backing'.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:37 | 1796961 Robert Neville
Robert Neville's picture

I lived in Germany for five years and spoke enough of the language to make an ass out of myself. You are right it is a funny language. I wondered why some translate “Es gibt kein” which is literally “it gives no”, as “there is no going”. Ask your wife if she read the whole article it would be interesting to know the context. The first paragraph mention that the whole thing is a farce but obviously my German isn’t good enough to understand nuance.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:42 | 1796988 Rynak
Rynak's picture

I can answer that one: Just as in other languages, some words have a dual meaning. In the case of "gibt/geben", it can mean "give" as well as "exist". Why? I have no idea, because... german has already at least two more words for existence: "Existenz" und "ist/sein" (the later basically translates to "is"/"be".

Perhaps, it's just the typical german approach to do stuff: Over-buerocracy and -complexity via overengineering.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:37 | 1796964 Rynak
Rynak's picture

That's actually kinda true..... an article that says that the EUR has no backing, yet claims that "there is no way to go back". And this contradiction is then solved by deus ex machina "The world will end if you do not do what i say!!!".

Wait, doesn't just sum up the entire current state of things?

"This is backed by nothing."

"There is no way back now!"

"This is backed by nothing."

"The world will end if you do not do what i say!!!"

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:30 | 1796637 machineh
machineh's picture


European leaders braced for a six-day battle over how to save Greecefrom default, shield banks from the fallout, and build more powerful defenses against the debt crisis rocking the 17-nation euro economy.

With U.S. President Barack Obama stressing the “urgency” of a fix, divisions between Germany and France festered as finance ministers arrived in Brussels for the start of the anti-crisis marathon.

Europe’s international image is “disastrous,” Luxembourg Prime Minister Jean-Claude Juncker told reporters before the meeting began. “We’re not really giving a great example of a high standing of state governance.”

You can't BUY entertainment like this!

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:39 | 1796687 machineh
machineh's picture

p.s. Should have typed 'anti-crisis merde-a-thon.'

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:41 | 1796700 swiss chick
swiss chick's picture

you can't make this shit up, there fixed it for you

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 11:04 | 1797107 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"With U.S. President Barack Obama stressing the “urgency” of a fix"

He sort of redefines "the pot calling the kettle black", doesn't he? "The black calling the pot a kettle", perhaps?

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:31 | 1796639 Peter K
Peter K's picture

It's about time. This is the only answer, i.e. Germany goes back to the DEM, and recapitalizes its banking sector. The RumpEuro revalues, and the world is closer to being saved.

It's just that simple. 

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:40 | 1796692 Don Diego
Don Diego's picture

and what do you do with the intra-F PIIGS debt?

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:31 | 1796642 TooBearish
TooBearish's picture

Will not happen - wouldn't be prudent - BTFD

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:36 | 1796666 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Right....and the prudent thing to do would be for Germany to just bend over for Greek prison style rape and all the other insolvent crap.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 10:34 | 1796645 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

And it would be going higher and higher compared to the euro... since the euro would go booom.

But at some point, Germany would become like the US... unable to export anything. It would turn into a service industry.


My guess if that were to happen without noticing anybody weeks/months before would be a war happening not too long after that. (months, perhaps a year or two) All of Europe would blame Germany for their depression.

Anyway no way in hell that happens. The German government is too corrupt.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:34 | 1796656 drivenZ
drivenZ's picture

A new Deutsche Mark would appreciate rapidly causing German exports which are ~40% to other Euro countries to fall off a cliff. Can you say huge recession? They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. 

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:35 | 1796657 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

would be great to see the DM around again. :-)


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 09:39 | 1796686 optimator
optimator's picture

May even go back to the RM.

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