It's Official: German Economy Minister Demands Surrender Of Greek Budget Policy, Says It Is First Of Many Such Sovereign "Requests"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

While over the past 2 days there may have been some confusion as to who, what, how or where is demanding that Greece abdicate fiscal sovereignty (with some of our German readers supposedly insulted by the suggestion that this idea originated in Berlin, and specifically with politicians elected by a majority of the German population), today's quotefest from German Economy Minister Philipp Roesler appearing in Germany's Bild should put any such questions to bed. And from this point on, Greece would be advised to not play dumb anymore vis-a-vis German annexation demands. So from Reuters, "Greece must surrender control of its budget policy to outside institutions if it cannot implement reforms attached to euro zone rescue measures, the German economy minister was quoted as saying on Sunday. Philipp Roesler became the first German cabinet member to openly endorse a proposal for Greece to surrender budget control after Reuters quoted a European source on Friday as saying Berlin wants Athens to give up budget control." And some bad news for our Portuguese (and then Spanish) readers: you are next.

More:

"We need more leadership and monitoring when it comes to implementing the reform course," Roesler, also vice chancellor, told Bild newspaper, according to an advance of an interview to be published on Monday.

 

"If the Greeks aren't able to succeed themselves with this, then there must be stronger leadership and monitoring from abroad, for example through the EU," added Roesler, chairman of the Free Democrats (FDP) who share power with Chancellor Angela Merkel.

 

Reuters reported on Friday that Germany wants Greece to give up control of budget policy to European institutions as part of discussions over a second rescue package.

 

Greece, which has repeatedly failed to meet the fiscal targets set out by its international lenders, is in talks to finalise a second 130 billion-euro ($172 billion) package.

 

With many Greeks blaming Germans for the austerity medicine their country has been forced to swallow, officials in Athens dismissed the idea of relinquishing budget control as out of the question.

 

Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos said on Sunday Greece was perfectly capable of making good on its promises.

 

"Anyone who puts a nation before the dilemma of 'economic assistance or national dignity' ignores some key historical lessons," he said in a statement before heading to Brussels for a European Union summit on Monday.

And by the way, this is just the beginning:

A government source in Berlin said Germany's proposal was aimed not just at Greece but also at other struggling euro zone members that receive aid and are unable to make good on their obligations.

So yes, it is true, and Germany is dead serious. Ball is in the Greek court now: just how far will the new technocrat PM go to sell its people in exchange for a few banker smiles?

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Sun, 01/29/2012 - 13:21 | 2107319 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Molon Labe... Come and get them (the taxes)!

Germany are a bunch of banksters puppets! Fuck em.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 13:24 | 2107322 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

They create it from thin air and then lend it out at interest, for only the princely cost of your country...

sounds cheap...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 13:44 | 2107387 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Greece will get used to it.

Geiz ist geil

To be stingy is cool...!!

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 13:52 | 2107418 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Problem is: Nobody wants to invest in Greece because everybody knows what kind of shithole it is. So, either the Greek start changing a few things TODAY or they will be broke and finished by tomorrow morning...

Germany? They're just looking for some excuse to step away from that black hole called Greek Ministry of Finance...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 13:54 | 2107427 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Agree. The Germans would be fools to lend Greece more money under any conditions, even complete control of their finances, and they know it. "You want money, you got to pay the vig".

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:00 | 2107446 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

Sounds like there will be petrol-bombs flying in Greece again soon...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:07 | 2107658 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

if the greeks submit to this german ass-raping then fuck 'em.

btw, wait until the UN/IMF/World Bank try this with the USA

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:13 | 2107672 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Yes, that's right.  This is all posturing, all a beta test for the true collapse that will see all fiat standards wiped clean.  When the IMF/World Bank come to say how naughty you have all been, then ask about why Germany played their cards so.

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 09:15 | 2109084 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Now is the time for all good Greeks to define the phrase "To defend my country from all enemies foreign and domestic"...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:33 | 2107870 Michael
Michael's picture

They should just give Greece a 145 billion GRANT. That would make it a lot easier since they're just printing the money up anyway. Maybe they should just send Greece a bill for the printing charges.

Or the Greek people could just incinerate the parliament building and burn the whole fucking place to the ground.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 19:51 | 2108216 Arius
Arius's picture

they do not even have to print it ... as Bernanke once noted it can be done through the printing press electronically at virtually no cost at all ... i am at a loss why would anyone think of risking the system, although they might be sure that everything will go fine still why risk it all ... just give the 140 billion and write this problem away ...

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 00:00 | 2108584 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Apparently they have a title to their plan now: "We create the Ponz, you give 'em the Fonz." word is "they think this thing might actually work."

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:20 | 2108329 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

Even though it is as easy as just creating it out of thin air, why just give something away when you can make people beg and fight for it?  Doing it this way clearly defines the servant and the master.  Now that living standards have risen too much for most average people, the sociopath elitists want a way to easily distinguish themselves as the saviors for the masses.

To borrow from George Orwell even though it is about war, I think it still applies.

"The primary aim of modern warfare is to use up the products of the machine without raising the general standard of living. Ever since the end of the nineteenth century, the problem of what to do with the surplus of consumption goods has been latent in industrial society. From the moment when the machine first made its appearance it was clear to all thinking people that the need for human drudgery, and therefore to a great extent for human inequality, had disappeared. If the machine were used deliberately for that end, hunger, overwork, dirt, illiteracy, and disease could be eliminated within a few generations. And in fact, without being used for any such purpose, but by a sort of automatic process — by producing wealth which it was sometimes impossible not to distribute — the machine did raise the living standards of the average humand being very greatly over a period of about fifty years at the end of the nineteenth and the beginning of the twentieth centuries. But it was also clear that an all-round increase in wealth threatened the destruction — indeed, in some sense was the destruction — of a hierarchical society. In a world in which everyone worked short hours, had enough to eat, lived in a house with a bathroom and a refrigerator, and possessed a motor-car or even an aeroplane, the most obvious and perhaps the most important form of inequality would already have disappeared. If it once became general, wealth would confer no distinction. It was possible, no doubt, to imagine a society in which wealth, in the sense of personal possessions and luxuries, should be evenly distributed, while power remained in the hands of a small privileged caste. But in practice such a society could not long remain stable. For if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would become literate and would learn to think for themselves; and when once they had done this, they would sooner or later realize that the privileged minority had no function, and they would sweep it away. In the long run, a hierarchical society was only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance.

To return to the agricultural past, as some thinkers about the beginning of the twentieth century dreamed of doing, was not a practicable solution. It conflicted with the tendency towards mechanization which had become quasi-instinctive throughout almost the whole world, and moreover, any country which remained industrially backward was helpless in a military sense and was bound to be dominated, directly or indirectly, by its more advanced rivals. Nor was it a satisfactory solution to keep the masses in poverty by restricting the output of goods. This happened to a great extent during the final phase of capitalism, roughly between 1920 and 1940. The economy of many countries was allowed to stagnate, land went out of cultivation, capital equipment was not added to, great blocks of the population were prevented from working and kept half alive by State charity. But this, too, entailed military weakness, and since the privations it inflicted were obviously unnecessary, it made opposition inevitable. The problem was how to keep the wheels of industry turning without increasing the real wealth of the world. Goods must be produced, but they must not be distributed. And in practice the only way of achieving this was by continuous warfare. The essential act of war is destruction, not necessarily of human lives, but of the products of human labour. War is a way of shattering to pieces, or pouring into the stratosphere, or sinking in the depths of the sea, materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent. Even when weapons of war are not actually destroyed, their manufacture is still a convenient way of expending labour power without producing anything that can be consumed. A Floating Fortress, for example, has locked up in it the labour that would build several hundred cargo-ships. Ultimately it is scrapped as obsolete, never having brought any material benefit to anybody, and with further enormous labours another Floating Fortress is built.

In principle the war effort is always so planned as to eat up any surplus that might exist after meeting the bare needs of the population. In practice the needs of the population are always underestimated, with the result that there is a chronic shortage of half the necessities of life; but this is looked on as an advantage. It is deliberate policy to keep even the favoured groups somewhere near the brink of hardship, because a general state of scarcity increases the importance of small privileges and thus magnifies the distinction between one group and another. By the standards of the early twentieth century, even a member of the Inner Party lives an austere, laborious kind of life. Nevertheless, the few luxuries that he does enjoy his large, well-appointed flat, the better texture of his clothes, the better quality of his food and drink and tobacco, his two or three servants, his private motor-car or helicopter—set him in a different world from a member of the Outer Party, and the members of the Outer Party have a similar advantage in comparison with the submerged masses whom we call ’the proles’. The social atmosphere is that of a besieged city, where the possession of a lump of horseflesh makes the difference between wealth and poverty. And at the same time the consciousness of being at war, and therefore in danger, makes the handing-over of all power to a small caste seem the natural, unavoidable condition of survival."

 

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:38 | 2108347 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Very astute quote.  Worth thinking about.

A question: why are most on this board apparently so concerned for the welfare of the  fucking Greeks?  Seems to me the  Germans are asking for no more than some real security on their loans, and given the history of Greek 'austerity" efforts, they'd be bloody fools not to.  The Greeks are in the position they deserve to be in, the same position we in the US will probably soon be in, and just as deserved by us.  The Germans are also in the position thay deserve to be in.  So again, fuck the Greeks.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 22:54 | 2108439 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

Right, but the banks that lent the money they created to the Greek government got the Greek people addicted to wealth without work. Once people are under this spell, it is very, very difficult to turn the tide as it becomes engrained in the collective conscience of the culture.  It is happening here too.

I've read that many banks knew the Greeks were lying about their expenditures, economy and yet kept lending to them.  At some point, the banks need to take some responsibility and realize the downside for their side of the equation. That is why I think a lot of posters are siding with the Greek people..not the Greek government. 

It is like the banks doing NINJA home loans here; any moron working there should have known they wouldn't be paid back.  Guess what?  They didn't care because they were able to pass the bill to American citizens (and common people of the world) via bailouts funded by inflation.

 

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 23:16 | 2108499 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

He said "bloody". What he meant was, "Ruddy". At least if you watch The Guns of Navarone extras on DVD. Film degradation and such.

Distraction aside, until the average human understands Fractional Reserve Banking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_reserve_banking) for what is truly is we are all eating popcorn and juden fetzen.

Interesting how one can so sophisticatedly miss the whole point.

Maybe I am too, no? Wish I could figure out my personal life...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 23:20 | 2108507 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

Agree completely on FRB.  The idea that hand-picked institutions can create something out of thin air, and call it wealth without using intellect, skill or labor is disgusting.

I'm confused too.  Confusion can be a sign of a bright mind.

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 00:09 | 2108598 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

once Greece rolls over its Drachma debt into Euro debt "the die is cast." Remember...Hungary...which isn't even in euro zone...has been annihilated since all their mortgage debt was denominated in Swiss Francs. As the value of the Swiss Franc exploded higher the ability for Hungarians to pay simply vanished. The irony that Switzerland had to devalue as a consequence should be lost on no one. Simply put unpayable debts on that scale were too large for UBS or Credit/Suisse...and since the size of these banks is far larger than the economy of Switzerland itself...Anywho...it's all the same. It's all about generated as upward sloping yield curve as possible...so that the zombie banks can "keep rolling it over."

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 02:31 | 2108798 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Yeah, I know, the poor bloody Greeks didn't deserve what was done to them.  And any alcoholic has everyone to blame but himself.

I like to drink beer, but I'm not an alcoholic, I choose not to be addicted to it.  I borrowed, but within my reasonable ability to pay back the loans.  The Greeks chose to keep hitting the ouzo bottle.  Americans chose to use the home ATM.  Fuck them all.  It takes two to tango.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:53 | 2108375 Gohn Galt
Gohn Galt's picture

counterfeit debt = inflation

understand opression, move to avoid it

like Hagel, every Master/Slave philosopher realizes at the end that to be Master may trap you in your Slaves universe.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 17:19 | 2107969 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

its commin'

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 18:21 | 2108077 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

huh, thought UN/IMF/WB were owned by USA

 

Figure if EU, Japan, and China fall first, then last one standing can resist any creditor calls.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 19:01 | 2108136 macholatte
macholatte's picture

huh, thought UN/IMF/WB were owned by USA

 

maybe it's more like this......

                 USA is owned by UN/IMF/WB ... or soon to be

 

 

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 18:25 | 2108085 Money never sleeps
Money never sleeps's picture

This firm absolutely nails it every frickin time: http://www.spadacapital.com/?articleID=2236

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 19:28 | 2108185 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

btw, wait until the UN/IMF/World Bank try this with the USA  ... let 'em try, i'll be first in line, over my dead body, out of my cold dead hands .    i'm not going to allow this to happen to my country or my kids or my grandkids .    fuckers, GO AHEAD, MAKE MY DAY !

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 20:02 | 2108233 Arius
Arius's picture

i dont think you understand ... if you have any issues take it w/ your local sherif (i am not sure you are that brave) ... they will not even bother to deal directly with you .... there are plenty lines of local implementers between you and the Masters ...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:15 | 2108325 ArmchairRevolut...
ArmchairRevolutionary's picture

So, douchebag, you are saying that you must start at the bottom of their chain of command and work yourself up?

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:22 | 2108326 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Iceland had it right: throw your leaders out,  throw your bankers out of the country, throw your middle finger at these criminal fraud schemes. Take the pain now and keep your country, your principles, and your self respect 

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:40 | 2108349 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Sure.  But the Greeks won't take the pain.  Neither will we.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 23:32 | 2108522 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

You don't seem to be up on current events.

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 02:34 | 2108802 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Oh, I didn't realize Ron Paul was now favored to win the presidency.  Short of that, we ain't taking the pain.  The Greeks?  I think you mean "current rumours".

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:43 | 2108355 robobbob
robobbob's picture

What makes you think we're going to be stupid enough to take it out on barney fife and gomer pyle when we all know what addresses to start with.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:33 | 2108343 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

It has already happened. 

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 00:32 | 2108633 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

let 'em try, i'll be first in line, over my dead body, out of my cold dead hands .    i'm not going to allow this to happen to my country or my kids or my grandkids .    fuckers, GO AHEAD, MAKE MY DAY !

What line?

What do you mean you won't allow it to happen here? What do you call $15 trillion govt debt, plus $100 trillion debt off the books?

It's already happening. As we speak.

We just have a bigger credit card than Greece. But sooner or later it's gonna hit its credit limit. Then what?  America defaults?  Like Greece?

No, that's not right actually.  Our card has no credit limit.  As long as USD is world reserve currency Ben can keep printing and we can keep charging on that credit card.

But the currency gets debased along the way.  It's already lost 40% since '07. 

And eventually USD will lose its reserve currency status, and the dollar will literally collapse.  Almost overnight.

How are you (or anyone else) gonna prevent that from happening?

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:03 | 2108317 drysafe
drysafe's picture

What's the UN got to do with this??? When was the UN used to write a country's laws or change its budget? 

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:54 | 2107788 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

The deep and dripping irony of this is that this Economy miseryster....belongs to a party calling themselves the Free Democrats.

Politcs and Shame are inimical to each other. One is matter to the other's anti-matter.

Uttelry and totally lacking shame.

Surely Spineless Sheeple Schlep Schit.

ori

watershed-day-may-this-pour-through-a-million-pairs-of-eyes/

 

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:07 | 2107819 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

In Eurofagland, free means someone else pays; it has nothing to do with freedom.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:47 | 2107898 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

How uncharitable, ha ha ha!

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:01 | 2107452 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Yes, but no.....

Germany wants Greece to give up their soveirgnty more than anything.  This is about control, and Germany is leading the way for the EU/EZ dictatorship to make the rules of law to govern.  It is starting with finance because finance is easy to control considering the financiers make the rules up as the go along.  If that doesn't work they stir up the hornets nest and have a war.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:23 | 2107506 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Have you ever been in Germany in the last forty years?

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:30 | 2107519 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Yes.  What's your point.  Sorry, I can't read minds....

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:34 | 2107535 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Germany wants Greece to give up their soveirgnty more than anything.

That's entirely ridiculous and very likely is the reason for the question at hand: have you been to ANY other place than your mother's kitchen in the last forty years?

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:01 | 2107634 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Brilliant.   Take over running a broke sovereignty's budget, intermix it with running your own broke sovereignty's budget, and what comes out is running unitedly-broke sovereignty budgets.  

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:11 | 2107671 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Why else would Germany want to continue with this piece of shit EZ plan?  Because they are altruists?  Because they care?  Because they want to help?  Figure out what the strucure of the world really looks like and how it is based on the human mind.  You have but no clue as to how this structure works if you don't think that the process of Europe is now being dictated backdoor from castles of Kingdoms old. 

Europeans seem to have forgot how much the Kings and Queens liked the servitude of the masses.  They liked living in castles, away from the poor and dirty peasants, and they want that again.  They will wreck havoc after they spin your heads, you not focusing on the bigger picture.

Yes, oh!  It is because Germany, the fascist ruled state (like ALL governments), wants the best for everyone.  Come to Germany's bosom, or you will be a naughty Greece.  Which will it be?  The Illuminatti tit, or the Illuminatti boot?

And don't insult me like that again.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:54 | 2107789 neverm0re
neverm0re's picture

Why Merkel insists on continuing with this asinine politics remains her secret. For some mysterious reason she seems to feel an obligation to save the Eurozone no matter what. The German people most definitely have no interest in annecting Greece. The main reason why she's insisting on austerity measures is that she knows there's no chance to communicate even more rescue packages to her own party, let alone the German people.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:15 | 2107842 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Yeah, once again, no.  Merkle may or may not be the daughter of Hitler (it doesn't matter either way, does it) but she is pushing an agenda.  As someone earlier wrote, "Everyone has an agenda".  It is true or people in the power structure, not for someone like us.

We have no skin in the game.  We are not getting a piece.  Angelface does.  She, just like all heads of state, take orders from her masters.  She is a puppet like them all.  She is pushing the Illuminatti agenda of a One Word Order. 

The Illuminatti have failed and failed again to secure this Order, but they will not stop until they get it (or they die trying).  They have failed because they have a narrow view of the world.  They do not understand free will.  They think that they can control every mind in the world.  So they continue...but the run up against walls here and there.  Then they force the issue.

That is where Europe lies now.  Germany is saying either the tit or the boot.  The tit is control of Greece's sovereignty, the boot is that the EZ commits suicide.  Which will it be?  Please mark A or B on Hegel's given ballot and exit orderly back into your gulag.

So finally, what if we took control ourselves?  What if we didn't go to work tomorrow?  Didn't pay our taxes?  Proested night and day?  That is a choice that very few people are making.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:25 | 2107864 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

 

 

The Greeks are making that choice,

maybe thats what is upsetting the PTB so much.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 18:02 | 2108043 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

> She, just like all heads of state, take orders from her masters.

Then how there are disagreements with the government of Greece (which was "approved" by the EU, so presumably their masters are the same)?

The more you explain your logic, the funnier it gets.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 19:10 | 2108154 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The Hed of State for Greece is a Goldman Sachs banker.  You know that right?

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