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It's Official: German Economy Minister Demands Surrender Of Greek Budget Policy, Says It Is First Of Many Such Sovereign "Requests"

Tyler Durden's picture


While over the past 2 days there may have been some confusion as to who, what, how or where is demanding that Greece abdicate fiscal sovereignty (with some of our German readers supposedly insulted by the suggestion that this idea originated in Berlin, and specifically with politicians elected by a majority of the German population), today's quotefest from German Economy Minister Philipp Roesler appearing in Germany's Bild should put any such questions to bed. And from this point on, Greece would be advised to not play dumb anymore vis-a-vis German annexation demands. So from Reuters, "Greece must surrender control of its budget policy to outside institutions if it cannot implement reforms attached to euro zone rescue measures, the German economy minister was quoted as saying on Sunday. Philipp Roesler became the first German cabinet member to openly endorse a proposal for Greece to surrender budget control after Reuters quoted a European source on Friday as saying Berlin wants Athens to give up budget control." And some bad news for our Portuguese (and then Spanish) readers: you are next.


"We need more leadership and monitoring when it comes to implementing the reform course," Roesler, also vice chancellor, told Bild newspaper, according to an advance of an interview to be published on Monday.


"If the Greeks aren't able to succeed themselves with this, then there must be stronger leadership and monitoring from abroad, for example through the EU," added Roesler, chairman of the Free Democrats (FDP) who share power with Chancellor Angela Merkel.


Reuters reported on Friday that Germany wants Greece to give up control of budget policy to European institutions as part of discussions over a second rescue package.


Greece, which has repeatedly failed to meet the fiscal targets set out by its international lenders, is in talks to finalise a second 130 billion-euro ($172 billion) package.


With many Greeks blaming Germans for the austerity medicine their country has been forced to swallow, officials in Athens dismissed the idea of relinquishing budget control as out of the question.


Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos said on Sunday Greece was perfectly capable of making good on its promises.


"Anyone who puts a nation before the dilemma of 'economic assistance or national dignity' ignores some key historical lessons," he said in a statement before heading to Brussels for a European Union summit on Monday.

And by the way, this is just the beginning:

A government source in Berlin said Germany's proposal was aimed not just at Greece but also at other struggling euro zone members that receive aid and are unable to make good on their obligations.

So yes, it is true, and Germany is dead serious. Ball is in the Greek court now: just how far will the new technocrat PM go to sell its people in exchange for a few banker smiles?


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Sun, 01/29/2012 - 13:21 | 2107319 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Molon Labe... Come and get them (the taxes)!

Germany are a bunch of banksters puppets! Fuck em.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 13:24 | 2107322 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

They create it from thin air and then lend it out at interest, for only the princely cost of your country...

sounds cheap...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 13:44 | 2107387 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Greece will get used to it.

Geiz ist geil

To be stingy is cool...!!

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 13:52 | 2107418 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Problem is: Nobody wants to invest in Greece because everybody knows what kind of shithole it is. So, either the Greek start changing a few things TODAY or they will be broke and finished by tomorrow morning...

Germany? They're just looking for some excuse to step away from that black hole called Greek Ministry of Finance...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 13:54 | 2107427 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Agree. The Germans would be fools to lend Greece more money under any conditions, even complete control of their finances, and they know it. "You want money, you got to pay the vig".

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:00 | 2107446 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

Sounds like there will be petrol-bombs flying in Greece again soon...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:07 | 2107658 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

if the greeks submit to this german ass-raping then fuck 'em.

btw, wait until the UN/IMF/World Bank try this with the USA

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:13 | 2107672 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Yes, that's right.  This is all posturing, all a beta test for the true collapse that will see all fiat standards wiped clean.  When the IMF/World Bank come to say how naughty you have all been, then ask about why Germany played their cards so.

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 09:15 | 2109084 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Now is the time for all good Greeks to define the phrase "To defend my country from all enemies foreign and domestic"...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:33 | 2107870 Michael
Michael's picture

They should just give Greece a 145 billion GRANT. That would make it a lot easier since they're just printing the money up anyway. Maybe they should just send Greece a bill for the printing charges.

Or the Greek people could just incinerate the parliament building and burn the whole fucking place to the ground.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 19:51 | 2108216 Arius
Arius's picture

they do not even have to print it ... as Bernanke once noted it can be done through the printing press electronically at virtually no cost at all ... i am at a loss why would anyone think of risking the system, although they might be sure that everything will go fine still why risk it all ... just give the 140 billion and write this problem away ...

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 00:00 | 2108584 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Apparently they have a title to their plan now: "We create the Ponz, you give 'em the Fonz." word is "they think this thing might actually work."

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:20 | 2108329 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

Even though it is as easy as just creating it out of thin air, why just give something away when you can make people beg and fight for it?  Doing it this way clearly defines the servant and the master.  Now that living standards have risen too much for most average people, the sociopath elitists want a way to easily distinguish themselves as the saviors for the masses.

To borrow from George Orwell even though it is about war, I think it still applies.

"The primary aim of modern warfare is to use up the products of the machine without raising the general standard of living. Ever since the end of the nineteenth century, the problem of what to do with the surplus of consumption goods has been latent in industrial society. From the moment when the machine first made its appearance it was clear to all thinking people that the need for human drudgery, and therefore to a great extent for human inequality, had disappeared. If the machine were used deliberately for that end, hunger, overwork, dirt, illiteracy, and disease could be eliminated within a few generations. And in fact, without being used for any such purpose, but by a sort of automatic process — by producing wealth which it was sometimes impossible not to distribute — the machine did raise the living standards of the average humand being very greatly over a period of about fifty years at the end of the nineteenth and the beginning of the twentieth centuries. But it was also clear that an all-round increase in wealth threatened the destruction — indeed, in some sense was the destruction — of a hierarchical society. In a world in which everyone worked short hours, had enough to eat, lived in a house with a bathroom and a refrigerator, and possessed a motor-car or even an aeroplane, the most obvious and perhaps the most important form of inequality would already have disappeared. If it once became general, wealth would confer no distinction. It was possible, no doubt, to imagine a society in which wealth, in the sense of personal possessions and luxuries, should be evenly distributed, while power remained in the hands of a small privileged caste. But in practice such a society could not long remain stable. For if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would become literate and would learn to think for themselves; and when once they had done this, they would sooner or later realize that the privileged minority had no function, and they would sweep it away. In the long run, a hierarchical society was only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance.

To return to the agricultural past, as some thinkers about the beginning of the twentieth century dreamed of doing, was not a practicable solution. It conflicted with the tendency towards mechanization which had become quasi-instinctive throughout almost the whole world, and moreover, any country which remained industrially backward was helpless in a military sense and was bound to be dominated, directly or indirectly, by its more advanced rivals. Nor was it a satisfactory solution to keep the masses in poverty by restricting the output of goods. This happened to a great extent during the final phase of capitalism, roughly between 1920 and 1940. The economy of many countries was allowed to stagnate, land went out of cultivation, capital equipment was not added to, great blocks of the population were prevented from working and kept half alive by State charity. But this, too, entailed military weakness, and since the privations it inflicted were obviously unnecessary, it made opposition inevitable. The problem was how to keep the wheels of industry turning without increasing the real wealth of the world. Goods must be produced, but they must not be distributed. And in practice the only way of achieving this was by continuous warfare. The essential act of war is destruction, not necessarily of human lives, but of the products of human labour. War is a way of shattering to pieces, or pouring into the stratosphere, or sinking in the depths of the sea, materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent. Even when weapons of war are not actually destroyed, their manufacture is still a convenient way of expending labour power without producing anything that can be consumed. A Floating Fortress, for example, has locked up in it the labour that would build several hundred cargo-ships. Ultimately it is scrapped as obsolete, never having brought any material benefit to anybody, and with further enormous labours another Floating Fortress is built.

In principle the war effort is always so planned as to eat up any surplus that might exist after meeting the bare needs of the population. In practice the needs of the population are always underestimated, with the result that there is a chronic shortage of half the necessities of life; but this is looked on as an advantage. It is deliberate policy to keep even the favoured groups somewhere near the brink of hardship, because a general state of scarcity increases the importance of small privileges and thus magnifies the distinction between one group and another. By the standards of the early twentieth century, even a member of the Inner Party lives an austere, laborious kind of life. Nevertheless, the few luxuries that he does enjoy his large, well-appointed flat, the better texture of his clothes, the better quality of his food and drink and tobacco, his two or three servants, his private motor-car or helicopter—set him in a different world from a member of the Outer Party, and the members of the Outer Party have a similar advantage in comparison with the submerged masses whom we call ’the proles’. The social atmosphere is that of a besieged city, where the possession of a lump of horseflesh makes the difference between wealth and poverty. And at the same time the consciousness of being at war, and therefore in danger, makes the handing-over of all power to a small caste seem the natural, unavoidable condition of survival."


Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:38 | 2108347 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Very astute quote.  Worth thinking about.

A question: why are most on this board apparently so concerned for the welfare of the  fucking Greeks?  Seems to me the  Germans are asking for no more than some real security on their loans, and given the history of Greek 'austerity" efforts, they'd be bloody fools not to.  The Greeks are in the position they deserve to be in, the same position we in the US will probably soon be in, and just as deserved by us.  The Germans are also in the position thay deserve to be in.  So again, fuck the Greeks.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 22:54 | 2108439 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

Right, but the banks that lent the money they created to the Greek government got the Greek people addicted to wealth without work. Once people are under this spell, it is very, very difficult to turn the tide as it becomes engrained in the collective conscience of the culture.  It is happening here too.

I've read that many banks knew the Greeks were lying about their expenditures, economy and yet kept lending to them.  At some point, the banks need to take some responsibility and realize the downside for their side of the equation. That is why I think a lot of posters are siding with the Greek people..not the Greek government. 

It is like the banks doing NINJA home loans here; any moron working there should have known they wouldn't be paid back.  Guess what?  They didn't care because they were able to pass the bill to American citizens (and common people of the world) via bailouts funded by inflation.


Sun, 01/29/2012 - 23:16 | 2108499 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

He said "bloody". What he meant was, "Ruddy". At least if you watch The Guns of Navarone extras on DVD. Film degradation and such.

Distraction aside, until the average human understands Fractional Reserve Banking ( for what is truly is we are all eating popcorn and juden fetzen.

Interesting how one can so sophisticatedly miss the whole point.

Maybe I am too, no? Wish I could figure out my personal life...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 23:20 | 2108507 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

Agree completely on FRB.  The idea that hand-picked institutions can create something out of thin air, and call it wealth without using intellect, skill or labor is disgusting.

I'm confused too.  Confusion can be a sign of a bright mind.

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 00:09 | 2108598 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

once Greece rolls over its Drachma debt into Euro debt "the die is cast." Remember...Hungary...which isn't even in euro zone...has been annihilated since all their mortgage debt was denominated in Swiss Francs. As the value of the Swiss Franc exploded higher the ability for Hungarians to pay simply vanished. The irony that Switzerland had to devalue as a consequence should be lost on no one. Simply put unpayable debts on that scale were too large for UBS or Credit/Suisse...and since the size of these banks is far larger than the economy of Switzerland's all the same. It's all about generated as upward sloping yield curve as that the zombie banks can "keep rolling it over."

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 02:31 | 2108798 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Yeah, I know, the poor bloody Greeks didn't deserve what was done to them.  And any alcoholic has everyone to blame but himself.

I like to drink beer, but I'm not an alcoholic, I choose not to be addicted to it.  I borrowed, but within my reasonable ability to pay back the loans.  The Greeks chose to keep hitting the ouzo bottle.  Americans chose to use the home ATM.  Fuck them all.  It takes two to tango.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:53 | 2108375 Gohn Galt
Gohn Galt's picture

counterfeit debt = inflation

understand opression, move to avoid it

like Hagel, every Master/Slave philosopher realizes at the end that to be Master may trap you in your Slaves universe.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 17:19 | 2107969 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

its commin'

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 18:21 | 2108077 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

huh, thought UN/IMF/WB were owned by USA


Figure if EU, Japan, and China fall first, then last one standing can resist any creditor calls.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 19:01 | 2108136 macholatte
macholatte's picture

huh, thought UN/IMF/WB were owned by USA


maybe it's more like this......

                 USA is owned by UN/IMF/WB ... or soon to be



Sun, 01/29/2012 - 18:25 | 2108085 Money never sleeps
Money never sleeps's picture

This firm absolutely nails it every frickin time:

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 19:28 | 2108185 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

btw, wait until the UN/IMF/World Bank try this with the USA  ... let 'em try, i'll be first in line, over my dead body, out of my cold dead hands .    i'm not going to allow this to happen to my country or my kids or my grandkids .    fuckers, GO AHEAD, MAKE MY DAY !

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 20:02 | 2108233 Arius
Arius's picture

i dont think you understand ... if you have any issues take it w/ your local sherif (i am not sure you are that brave) ... they will not even bother to deal directly with you .... there are plenty lines of local implementers between you and the Masters ...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:15 | 2108325 ArmchairRevolut...
ArmchairRevolutionary's picture

So, douchebag, you are saying that you must start at the bottom of their chain of command and work yourself up?

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:22 | 2108326 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Iceland had it right: throw your leaders out,  throw your bankers out of the country, throw your middle finger at these criminal fraud schemes. Take the pain now and keep your country, your principles, and your self respect 

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:40 | 2108349 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Sure.  But the Greeks won't take the pain.  Neither will we.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 23:32 | 2108522 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

You don't seem to be up on current events.

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 02:34 | 2108802 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Oh, I didn't realize Ron Paul was now favored to win the presidency.  Short of that, we ain't taking the pain.  The Greeks?  I think you mean "current rumours".

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:43 | 2108355 robobbob
robobbob's picture

What makes you think we're going to be stupid enough to take it out on barney fife and gomer pyle when we all know what addresses to start with.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:33 | 2108343 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

It has already happened. 

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 00:32 | 2108633 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



let 'em try, i'll be first in line, over my dead body, out of my cold dead hands .    i'm not going to allow this to happen to my country or my kids or my grandkids .    fuckers, GO AHEAD, MAKE MY DAY !

What line?

What do you mean you won't allow it to happen here? What do you call $15 trillion govt debt, plus $100 trillion debt off the books?

It's already happening. As we speak.

We just have a bigger credit card than Greece. But sooner or later it's gonna hit its credit limit. Then what?  America defaults?  Like Greece?

No, that's not right actually.  Our card has no credit limit.  As long as USD is world reserve currency Ben can keep printing and we can keep charging on that credit card.

But the currency gets debased along the way.  It's already lost 40% since '07. 

And eventually USD will lose its reserve currency status, and the dollar will literally collapse.  Almost overnight.

How are you (or anyone else) gonna prevent that from happening?

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:03 | 2108317 drysafe
drysafe's picture

What's the UN got to do with this??? When was the UN used to write a country's laws or change its budget? 

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:54 | 2107788 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

The deep and dripping irony of this is that this Economy miseryster....belongs to a party calling themselves the Free Democrats.

Politcs and Shame are inimical to each other. One is matter to the other's anti-matter.

Uttelry and totally lacking shame.

Surely Spineless Sheeple Schlep Schit.




Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:07 | 2107819 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

In Eurofagland, free means someone else pays; it has nothing to do with freedom.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:47 | 2107898 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

How uncharitable, ha ha ha!

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:01 | 2107452 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Yes, but no.....

Germany wants Greece to give up their soveirgnty more than anything.  This is about control, and Germany is leading the way for the EU/EZ dictatorship to make the rules of law to govern.  It is starting with finance because finance is easy to control considering the financiers make the rules up as the go along.  If that doesn't work they stir up the hornets nest and have a war.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:23 | 2107506 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Have you ever been in Germany in the last forty years?

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:30 | 2107519 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Yes.  What's your point.  Sorry, I can't read minds....

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:34 | 2107535 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Germany wants Greece to give up their soveirgnty more than anything.

That's entirely ridiculous and very likely is the reason for the question at hand: have you been to ANY other place than your mother's kitchen in the last forty years?

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:01 | 2107634 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



Brilliant.   Take over running a broke sovereignty's budget, intermix it with running your own broke sovereignty's budget, and what comes out is running unitedly-broke sovereignty budgets.  

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:11 | 2107671 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Why else would Germany want to continue with this piece of shit EZ plan?  Because they are altruists?  Because they care?  Because they want to help?  Figure out what the strucure of the world really looks like and how it is based on the human mind.  You have but no clue as to how this structure works if you don't think that the process of Europe is now being dictated backdoor from castles of Kingdoms old. 

Europeans seem to have forgot how much the Kings and Queens liked the servitude of the masses.  They liked living in castles, away from the poor and dirty peasants, and they want that again.  They will wreck havoc after they spin your heads, you not focusing on the bigger picture.

Yes, oh!  It is because Germany, the fascist ruled state (like ALL governments), wants the best for everyone.  Come to Germany's bosom, or you will be a naughty Greece.  Which will it be?  The Illuminatti tit, or the Illuminatti boot?

And don't insult me like that again.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:54 | 2107789 neverm0re
neverm0re's picture

Why Merkel insists on continuing with this asinine politics remains her secret. For some mysterious reason she seems to feel an obligation to save the Eurozone no matter what. The German people most definitely have no interest in annecting Greece. The main reason why she's insisting on austerity measures is that she knows there's no chance to communicate even more rescue packages to her own party, let alone the German people.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:15 | 2107842 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Yeah, once again, no.  Merkle may or may not be the daughter of Hitler (it doesn't matter either way, does it) but she is pushing an agenda.  As someone earlier wrote, "Everyone has an agenda".  It is true or people in the power structure, not for someone like us.

We have no skin in the game.  We are not getting a piece.  Angelface does.  She, just like all heads of state, take orders from her masters.  She is a puppet like them all.  She is pushing the Illuminatti agenda of a One Word Order. 

The Illuminatti have failed and failed again to secure this Order, but they will not stop until they get it (or they die trying).  They have failed because they have a narrow view of the world.  They do not understand free will.  They think that they can control every mind in the world.  So they continue...but the run up against walls here and there.  Then they force the issue.

That is where Europe lies now.  Germany is saying either the tit or the boot.  The tit is control of Greece's sovereignty, the boot is that the EZ commits suicide.  Which will it be?  Please mark A or B on Hegel's given ballot and exit orderly back into your gulag.

So finally, what if we took control ourselves?  What if we didn't go to work tomorrow?  Didn't pay our taxes?  Proested night and day?  That is a choice that very few people are making.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:25 | 2107864 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture



The Greeks are making that choice,

maybe thats what is upsetting the PTB so much.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 18:02 | 2108043 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

> She, just like all heads of state, take orders from her masters.

Then how there are disagreements with the government of Greece (which was "approved" by the EU, so presumably their masters are the same)?

The more you explain your logic, the funnier it gets.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 19:10 | 2108154 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The Hed of State for Greece is a Goldman Sachs banker.  You know that right?

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 20:05 | 2108236 Arius
Arius's picture

what's new? so is for Italy etc. ... and soon to be here too ...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 23:01 | 2108474 Livingstrong
Livingstrong's picture

Mr. Lennox Hendrix, you are a very smart person. I agree with your comments and thoughts. Please, keep them comming. Thank you for your insights.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 23:35 | 2108527 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture


Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:19 | 2107852 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture



It is because Germany, the fascist ruled state (like ALL governments),

wants the best for everyone.


Uh? Take your pill and go to bed again, kid...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:45 | 2107894 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Do you in fact have some reasons, a cogent argument or just ad hominem and a great set of tits?  LH laid his out fairly well and yours is what?

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:50 | 2107904 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Tits is upset because it has no arguement.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 17:25 | 2107980 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

tits as an avatar is sophomoric and immature to begin with.  why even get into a discussion?


Mon, 01/30/2012 - 04:44 | 2108868 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Listen, prickface, this is fight club.  If you are offended by tits as an avatar then fuck off back to the huffington post.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:53 | 2107911 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

You can't be serious? You call these his rants argumentation? Not by my standard, not today - not tomorrow, kid. That's just plain ranting and farting - calling "Merkle" Hitler's daughter is well below anything one might be enticed to call par... and not worth a response and as a matter of fact, the only person here that actually makes money in such an environment goes away now (see you all tomorrow), so behave!

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:57 | 2107918 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Hitler as Merkle's father was me being facetious.  I said plain and clear remarks like that don't matter.  I can see now that you are an idiot who can't read between the lines.

Germany is the same as all other governments.  They want control over humanity.  Do you disagree?  Concerning Germany?  Please write something to show this instead of ad hom attacks against me, for your own sake, mind you, because you are making a fool of yourself.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 17:01 | 2107928 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Learn to shape an argument, if you want to talk to me or get some schooling in rhetoric. Its over, got it? And stop looking at my tits, else I shall tell your father, fucktard!

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 17:45 | 2108012 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

You still haven't replied to what you are arguing about and why you are arguing in the first place.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 17:53 | 2108029 akak
akak's picture

I wouldn't worry about it, MLH --- it's clear that her boobies are merely in a twist.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:26 | 2108336 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

I think he's arguing that Germany a.k.a. Merkel's government is not aggressive, not interested in owning Greece.  Why is Merkel doing what it does?  Maybe, (as someone else said) they have to do a Pontus Pilot, "Look we tried everything, they wouldn't go along with the program." followed by the default.  Because whatever possible outcome, all at this point causing lot's of human suffering, there will be an orchestrated blame Germany chorus.

I can't see why Germany would want to "own" Greece at this time.  Especially when the real owners, the Greek people, could quite possibly be claiming it back, Iceland style.

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 00:15 | 2108609 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

absolutlely! "we just want your money. ALL OF IT. and then when you are out of that we will strip your country of its assets. (this includes women btw.) after that your now worthless homes will be by our families...and you will LOVE US AGAIN!"

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:25 | 2108334 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

You can't have seriously read my comment fully as I never said a thing about the quality of his position just that he had elucidated one unlike you!   I also find Merkel as Hitleers daughter a real stretch, yet again you give us nothing else..  Like Freud said sometimes a great pair of tits is just a great pair of tits, or a cigar or you get the point..

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:54 | 2107913 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Ah, yes, Germany is the exception.  They don't want a cheap euro for exports, Merkle hasn't gone against the people of Germany's wishes and best interests, and the uber wealthy in Germany are diferent from the uber wealthy in the US and everywhere else for that matter.  Merkle is all knowing, and the Fatherland is altruist in nature.  Sorry, I forgot how great of a Nation Germany has always been.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:59 | 2107925 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Ah? A little racist, are we?

Your father must have served the GESTAPO in that shithole you call your town.

(It really feels good to be 5000 miles away from pigheads like you).

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 17:50 | 2108014 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Um, I already stated I feel the same about all governments.  And as far as Germany goes, they have been the posterboy for wars, if it has to do something with Scull and Bones or not.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 18:34 | 2108100 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Wake up, little fart, for you live in a world where Canada's GDP is only 1.37x that of a certain joint selling big hamburgers. Get adjusted and talk to your shrink about Hegel and Hitler. Perhaps he can help you to make sense of it all....

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 18:41 | 2108114 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

K, I'm going to junk you and leave it at that.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 20:56 | 2108308 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Don't sweat it LH. I may not know if Merkle is Hitler's daughter or I'm pretty sure I found this ones...

the one on the right ;-)

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 18:11 | 2108060 illyia
Sun, 01/29/2012 - 23:39 | 2108534 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Unfortunately gone from us. But, we have something closer to reality (?):

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:31 | 2107521 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Once again, for effect..

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:34 | 2107534 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Forget it. He's describing another nation that has perfected this approach and extended it to the modern Germany. Not applicable.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:42 | 2107566 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

Adolf Linköln, bitchez!

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 17:56 | 2108033 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Lennon Hendrix, usually you have good comments, but there are some crappy ones, like this one.

We just need - I need to check the rest of comments - that bearded freak A<whatever> to join you in calls for WW III.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 18:43 | 2108115 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The Euro Elite figured out that using a soft shoe (a fiscal union) would be better than force.  t isn't about Germany being the bad guy and Greece being the good guy, it is about the powered elite gaining control of Europe.  The little guy loses, if he is German or Greece.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:36 | 2107542 Doña K
Doña K's picture


The Greek people do not want that money. Maybe the Greek politicians do because they are being pressured and threatened to keep paying interest so that the banks are made whole.

The Greeks are playing the game correctly, by trying to break the ECB's patience and be allowed to fail, rather than declare failure on their own. Best thing for Greece is for Portugal, Spain or Italy to fail first.

Iceland is the fastest growing country in the world at themoment and have zero debt.

It would be very interesting to see what happens (except war) at the end as there will be an end soon.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 17:27 | 2107984 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

Not sure if they're playing the game right....but they're definitely playing the game (a very nasty game)

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 18:08 | 2108049 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Dona K


It is a fallacy that Iceland has no debt. Iceland did not bail out its banks and let them fail. As a country its debt is now 90% of GDP and it is running a budget deficit.

It is also nothing like the fastest growing country in the world. Do some elementary research.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 19:38 | 2108200 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Icelandic women are smoking hot. 

Greek women - not so much. Can anyone name an attractive Greek woman?  

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:39 | 2108348 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Does Helen of Troy count?

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 22:48 | 2108442 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

No, Trojans weren't Greek. 

And anyway, wasn't hers the face that launched a thousand ships and burnt the topless towers of Ilium?

Sounds to me like an heiress with a bad attitude.

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 02:38 | 2108366 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

I've shagged a few.  Pretty sweet.   Can't remember their names, sorry.


Edit: four thumbs down.  And I thought that was quite a witty comment.  I think the morals police have landed on ZH.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 19:36 | 2108197 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The EUSSR, Euro and the scum in Brussels plus the tribe European bankster family are total sh*t. 

Germans and Germany are not as evil as the EUSSR.  Greece is the Detroit of Europe and there is no reason to lend them money for anything.

The Germans at least gave us Bach, Kraftwerk, BMW, Porsche and Claudia Shiffer.

America gave us that wh*re Kim Kardashian and The Democrat Party's muslim.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 23:01 | 2108471 GenXer
GenXer's picture I see. So a muslim is someone that bails out the 0.01% banking industry scumbags and dumps that debt onto the average citizen. They are also war mongers that want nothing more than to bomb the shit out of Iran to feed the industrial military complex of the USA.

Now you have explained it no wonder no one likes Muslims Freddie...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:20 | 2107499 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

They're just looking for some excuse to step away from that black hole called Greek Ministry of Finance...

The more I see of this the more I think the Germans are trying to force countries out of the Euro.

It then becomes solely an IMF problem.

(well obviously a Greek one to).

A bankrupt NATO member?

Doesn't sound good.


Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:30 | 2107516 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

A bankrupt NATO member? Doesn't sound good.


It doesn't matter at all since "their" contribution was financed by others anyway...

Nobody can be forced out of the euro, but if you can't pay for breakfast,

lunch nor supper because you have no monies left, then

you must trade with shells and furs again...

In this case it will all boil down to olives... :-)

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:46 | 2107581 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

If they have no money left they leave the Euro by choice no?


Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:53 | 2107611 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Yes, but this would trigger a CDS and ruin their credit worthiness for the next decade or more.

All (and I mean ALL) monetary ties to the rest of the world would get severed and they couldn't even buy spaghetti from Italia. Hospitals would have to close (German producer Fresenius says, they only ship the absolute minimum because Greek hospitals don't pay their bills etc.....).

Doing business would be very painful for any Greek after such an event, very...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:38 | 2107750 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Doing business would be very painful for any Greek after such an event, very...

That's the same scare tactics they tried on the icelandic people. Didn't work. it all makes sense. Your IP addy coming from Deutsche Bank.

You banker piece of shit!

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:00 | 2107807 MoneyPowerWomen
MoneyPowerWomen's picture

did you really track his IP addy? if so how?

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:45 | 2107888 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Shutup, caveman. Troll back to your sister and into that pigsty...



"...his IP" ?? Nah, he can't do that. 

He can hardly use a computer or write his name and in general the village idiot lives in a cave just outside town... ;-)

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 19:43 | 2108206 Freddie
Freddie's picture

That corrupt socialist shithole Argentina defaulted on their debt.  They grabbed pensioners savings and have found fools to lend them money.   Greece and Argentina are pretty comparable.  Argentina is probably worse because they have land to grow food and other advantages Greece does not have. 

Both countries are totally corrupt like the USA run by the Democrats muslim.   Hey Tyler - turn of the campaign ads with the wookie wife of the muslim.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:54 | 2108376 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Greece, Argentina, and don't forget the USA.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 23:10 | 2108491 Freddie
Freddie's picture


In 2008 - the USA became an islamic-run sh*thole.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:11 | 2107829 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Yes, but this would trigger a CDS and ruin their credit worthiness for the next decade or more.

Are not markets forward looking?

Some participants will take the risk.

And if Greece is ostracised by the rest of Europe China and India might do some bilateral business.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 17:32 | 2107991 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

Lord Wellington, these are not markets anymore. They are a casino under the control of the global banking cartel. I am honestly not sure exactly how long this has been the case.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 20:01 | 2108232 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture


Sun, 01/29/2012 - 18:39 | 2108112 akak
akak's picture

One of the funniest political cartoons I have seen in a while:

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:46 | 2107580 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

@ Lord Wellington,

Default is not necessarily bankruptcy.

As I posted before. The Greek banks are holding large amounts of credit default insurance and if Greece defaults the Greek banks will then be solvent again. It remains to be seen however, if the banks will be able to collect.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:48 | 2107589 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

I was under the impression that there was little enough CDS on Greek debt.

Perhaps I am mistaken.

Got a link?

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:01 | 2107623 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Start here:


...the government of Greece had misreported the country's official economic statistics.In the beginning of 2010, it was discovered that Greece had paid Goldman Sachs and other banks hundreds of millions of dollars in fees since 2001 for arranging transactions that hid the actual level of borrowing.


Ouzo anyone?

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 19:59 | 2108230 gravedestruction
gravedestruction's picture

Maybe consider a good grappa in the near future or perhaps a...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:20 | 2107684 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

Kyle Bass blast's BBC  

Greek banks own 50% of all CDS on Greek debt in the market.    at 0:46

and at 1.31 ( you don't paint the mirror because you're ugly)

and at 4:40 (Capitalism without bankruptcy is like religion without hell.)



Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:14 | 2107838 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Thanks for that.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:53 | 2107909 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

See the look on that sour bitch when he said " the problem is as we say in my office with europe is, the pope is German and the central banker Italian" ROTFL... Classic Bass

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 22:55 | 2108464 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Wow, it's like Euro Hell.

Now all we need to complete the joke are:  French mechanics, Swiss lovers, English chefs, and, um, let's see... Oh yeah.

German police.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 17:04 | 2107936 drider
drider's picture

Ok, so if this information is correct and combining this with the fact that the Greek PM is an ex-bankster then the elites in Greece may think that they are prepared for a default.

Dangerous game they are playing there... I mean they can try the "patriotic pitch" that it was IMF's, Germany's, the world's fault that Greece defaulted. ANYONE's but their fault. Is this going to be enough to save their ass?. OR they will have to leave the country the next day?

You know Greek people may be many things but they are not THAT stupid!

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 17:05 | 2107939 hourglass86
hourglass86's picture

Everybody wants to buy Greece cheap because they know what a goldmine is. Hitler would be so proud. Come on you have to admit it! Germans have it in their blood they love central planning and they want to rule the fucking Europe!! Genious!!

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 19:11 | 2108156 Acet
Acet's picture

Apparently since last quarter Greece has had a primary surplus - in other words, if they don't pay their debts or the interest on them, they don't actually need to get money from anybody.

As for lack of foreign investment, I suspect they will still be takers as long as it is against hard assets. For example, just recently the Chinese have bought the remaining Portuguese state's share of Portugal sole electricity supplier - I reckon similar assets in Greece will still be interesting.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 23:28 | 2108517 constitutionalist
constitutionalist's picture

my guess is that Germany is just putting pressure on Greece so they walk away from the EU, which is a smart move for both of them, Germany doesnt have to fit the bill, and Greece can start over, the people will know what to do. That should be the phrase for all of us in 2012, "It is now in the peoples hands"

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 00:31 | 2108635 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Hey baby, shithole doesn't end in Greece.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:21 | 2107501 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

Germany is accomplishing what they couldn't in WW2.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 20:30 | 2108264 IQ 101
IQ 101's picture

Face it, the Germans just can;t help it, it's in the DNA,

the drum has been beaten for decades about the post Nazi guilt trip of the German citizenry but while they were busy building Beemers the political paradigm has morphed into what, Altruistic dictatorship, paternal dominance of the periphary by the not so dead Fatherland?

If I remember rightly most of the peripheries populations were not exactly beating down the borders to go full Euro and a few fairly recent referendums spring to mind, the Irish coersion in particular;

"So ve print ze Euro, ve lend you ze Euro and yu pay uz viz your country"

soon an Italian, installed from the north government,?

a civil war in Spain where Germany tests it's newly resurgent militaries equipment ?

Portugal, neutral, a nice sandbox for the spies to play in and most of the Irish side with the Germans ?

All the ducks are in a row for the third performance while guilt ridden Fritz and Heidi are down at the sausage factory packin their shnitzel until it is all to late.

How familiar.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 13:44 | 2107390 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



Might as well rename Greece to Greemany.   Spain to Spainmany.   Portugal to Portmany.   I don't think many will go for this.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:26 | 2107701 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Greemany + Spainmany + Portmany + Germany = 4th Reich

I think they'll need some kind of special police force wearing black coats to inforce this kind of policy. But yet again, they already have such a scenario from the past.


Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:20 | 2107857 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

This is all ridiculous...

Everyone knows that then it comes to SURRENDERING... You don't ask GREEKS, you ask the FRENCH...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:07 | 2108321 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I can't wait till they try and force homegrown Americans to surrender. 

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 13:45 | 2107393 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

It is time every freedom loving human being rises up against the teutonic oligarchy.




Sun, 01/29/2012 - 13:57 | 2107433 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

Most of us won't have to give up much to make that happen...

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:08 | 2107474 Everyman
Everyman's picture

How about just shoot stupid central bankers?  Lot easier than boycotts and much more effective.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:33 | 2107529 The They
The They's picture

No good.  The human commponents of this mess are completely replaceable.  The functions they serve are not.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:35 | 2107536 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Don't discount the entertainment value.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:09 | 2107825 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Would you step up to the plate if the last 9 batters got whacked?

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 17:18 | 2107963 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

which is why nobody responsible or intelligent runs for any kind of 'public service'  (note the term, it was intended to be an 'honor' to 'serve' the people here in the united states rather than be a royal) in the united states.  and you don't need to even 'whack' a few.  what's the upside.  god, allah, buddha, osiris and anybody i missed bless ron paul.  he means to do well by the most people possible.


Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:34 | 2107533 The They
The They's picture

No good.  The human components of this mess are completely replaceable.  The functions they serve are not.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:46 | 2107574 Manthong
Manthong's picture

OK, then.. many argue that we suffer from overpopulation so just consider it as deferred birth control.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:24 | 2107707 The They
The They's picture

It's probably too late for 4th trimester abortions.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:44 | 2107767 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Nah, just ask Susan Smith.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:29 | 2108338 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

In any life game the various players have different end games.  Don't you think there's a thought out there that current generations have been degenerated and need replacing.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:19 | 2107851 SMG
SMG's picture

Shoot the Illuminati ruling families, and dismantle their network.  Then you would really be getting somewhere.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 18:10 | 2108059 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Sure, there's no need for courts and such trivialities. And I presume you would be the one who'd help us name them. How nice of you!

I guess SMG stands for Sadistic McCarthyian Government!

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 22:04 | 2108353 SMG
SMG's picture

Did the people who have been swindled by the Illuminati all these years get a trial?

Did the millions, perhaps billions, who have been murdered by the ruling families' decisions get a trial? 

Did the rank and file Illuminati who get tortured, brainwashed, and raped, from a young age get a trial?

I would hope that when the time comes, those in the know will see their evil sadistic masters for what they are, and dispense true justice.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:55 | 2108379 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

What are u so worried about?  Justice will be served before we say it's over.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 13:46 | 2107396 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

And governments keep making their people pay,why? Why? Why?

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 13:53 | 2107423 LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

Created out of thin air, true.

But if that confetti were used to buy Gold instead of pissed away on cushy social programs, Greece would be in the driver's seat, and not about to lose their sovereignty.

Molon Labe? 

Should be "Labe Lazy"

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:16 | 2107487 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

But if that confetti were used to buy Gold

the hofjuden would never allow that

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 17:03 | 2107931 Nozza
Nozza's picture

That's deep. Thanks. lol

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 23:46 | 2108549 SilverDoctors
SilverDoctors's picture

Blythe must expect JP Morgan's $75 Trillion in interest rate swaps to vaporize The Morgue when Greece defaults, apparently Blythe Masters is leaving JP Morgan for Deutsche Bank effective Monday.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 23:49 | 2108560 bullnutz
bullnutz's picture

This colin guy doesnt look much better as a replacement for blythe.  Nice tough leaving blythes website for farewell wishes lol

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:16 | 2107458 bud_fox
bud_fox's picture


Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:03 | 2107639 OttoMBMP
OttoMBMP's picture

German politicians and journalists are mentally ill criminals.
In no way do they follow any German national agenda.
Every German learns from very young that his people is the most guilty on earth and there is hardly anything in his country he can be proud of. His country needs to dissolve in the EUSSR.
A democratic process cannot work at all under these conditions.
German politicians commit high treason against their own people first and foremost. Greek politicians who accept criminal demands commit high treason against their people.
As so many of you rightly say: There are no German tanks rolling. Greece is and has been free to declare bankruptcy and to send the banksters and criminal politicians to hell.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:38 | 2107752 Banksters
Banksters's picture

You are GUILTY.   YOU!

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:34 | 2107878 smb12321
smb12321's picture

Posters are treating the Greek people like the media treats idiots who bought homes they could not afford.  The Greek populace is entirely to blame.  They elected poiticians whose promises ensured ruin, their labor unions forced unsustainable agreements, they ignored the warnings of a coming crunch and practiced absurdities like the "13th and 14th" paycheck (for politicians add 15th & 16th).

No Greek party ever raised the issue of debt (until after the fact) and both parties saw elections as simply a way to enrich themselves and their supporters.  So the Greeks are not blameless.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 18:37 | 2108109 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Exactly the same as the Americans for that matter. Not to forget the Brits either ;O)

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:26 | 2107715 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


As we all know Feta and Ouzo are the food and beverage equivalent of Gold. How will this news affect the Feta and Ouzo markets?

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