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It's Official: German Economy Minister Demands Surrender Of Greek Budget Policy, Says It Is First Of Many Such Sovereign "Requests"
While over the past 2 days there may have been some confusion as to who, what, how or where is demanding that Greece abdicate fiscal sovereignty (with some of our German readers supposedly insulted by the suggestion that this idea originated in Berlin, and specifically with politicians elected by a majority of the German population), today's quotefest from German Economy Minister Philipp Roesler appearing in Germany's Bild should put any such questions to bed. And from this point on, Greece would be advised to not play dumb anymore vis-a-vis German annexation demands. So from Reuters, "Greece must surrender control of its budget policy to outside institutions if it cannot implement reforms attached to euro zone rescue measures, the German economy minister was quoted as saying on Sunday. Philipp Roesler became the first German cabinet member to openly endorse a proposal for Greece to surrender budget control after Reuters quoted a European source on Friday as saying Berlin wants Athens to give up budget control." And some bad news for our Portuguese (and then Spanish) readers: you are next.
"We need more leadership and monitoring when it comes to implementing the reform course," Roesler, also vice chancellor, told Bild newspaper, according to an advance of an interview to be published on Monday.
"If the Greeks aren't able to succeed themselves with this, then there must be stronger leadership and monitoring from abroad, for example through the EU," added Roesler, chairman of the Free Democrats (FDP) who share power with Chancellor Angela Merkel.
Reuters reported on Friday that Germany wants Greece to give up control of budget policy to European institutions as part of discussions over a second rescue package.
Greece, which has repeatedly failed to meet the fiscal targets set out by its international lenders, is in talks to finalise a second 130 billion-euro ($172 billion) package.
With many Greeks blaming Germans for the austerity medicine their country has been forced to swallow, officials in Athens dismissed the idea of relinquishing budget control as out of the question.
Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos said on Sunday Greece was perfectly capable of making good on its promises.
"Anyone who puts a nation before the dilemma of 'economic assistance or national dignity' ignores some key historical lessons," he said in a statement before heading to Brussels for a European Union summit on Monday.
And by the way, this is just the beginning:
A government source in Berlin said Germany's proposal was aimed not just at Greece but also at other struggling euro zone members that receive aid and are unable to make good on their obligations.
So yes, it is true, and Germany is dead serious. Ball is in the Greek court now: just how far will the new technocrat PM go to sell its people in exchange for a few banker smiles?
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Ok, I will +1 al of your cynical remarks. But what is not being reported here is that Greece will finalize its debt-swap this week, and that this will be market positive. The MSM is not making any reference to a default or Merkel's thought (falsely reported by BBC, as usual) that a Greek default is now more possible than ever. Watch ES shoot up to 1330 overnight and 1350 over the next week. Welcome to the bear cemetery. Your gravekeeper is called Tom Stolper.
Yeah I've read that. So what?
Any deal-under-duress in Greece would mean that private owners of all other eurozone bonds are exposed to same treatment elsewhere. How bullish is that?
This firm absolutely nails it every frickin time: http://www.spadacapital.com/?articleID=2236
At the plate, Greece. On deck, Italy. In the hole, Spain. Endgame, USA. The best part is when the second amendment is voluntarily/involuntarily unleashed in this nation. Better have some popcorn, a beer, smooth charleen, and night-vision goggles at the ready to eliminate the first traitor of this century and they're not talking about the banksters. They will have fled the country to Argentina, or Davos before that ever happens so what do you have left. Mules and Pacaderms.
At the plate, Greece. On deck, Italy. In the hole, Spain. Endgame, USA. The best part is when the second amendment is voluntarily/involuntarily unleashed in this nation. Better have some popcorn, a beer, smooth charleen, and night-vision goggles at the ready to eliminate the first traitor of this century and they're not talking about the banksters. They will have fled the country to Argentina, or Davos before that ever happens so what do you have left. Mules and Pacaderms.
It is going to get worse. Much worse: http://www.spadacapital.com/?articleID=2236
lolmao500,
You are 1,000% correct. German deserved to be raped and humiliated. It is disgusting to be an enforcer for the zionist banking cartel.
If you borrow money you must pay it back.
If you plan to not pay it back you are a criminal.
If you borrow too much then you are stupid. But dont blame Germany
'but also at other struggling euro zone members that receive aid and are unable to make good on their obligations.'
Desperation.
Not Yet. Roesler is floating the FDP's Plan B for an EU solution towards budget superlaws, so that the ball lands firmly in Monti's camp. Now the question is what Rome will do with it. If they play with it, A New Agreement might start. If not, well, they tried.
Um, "superlaws"? go ahead and elaborate please and feel free to laugh quietely to yourself because of my ignorance, but, doesn't this essentially mean that there is no 'firewall' and it's M.A.D just as we've assumed?
Gene, I don't claim any superior knowlegde, only opinion here.
The Germans and the Swiss (and in part the Austrian) are agonizing since two decades about restricting national budgets by constitutional means. The problem is national pride/autonomy. Serchword "Schuldenbremse".
Now CHF-land "has it". The FDP "wants" it, the CDU/CSU likes the idea IF the others do it too, the SPD is fine with it if it's the EU governing it.
It is a political will manifesting, the equivalent of wanting to "live within means". The natural partner to second this in the EU club would be Italy anyway.
----
Sorry, I had a friend who summarized treaties and constitutional laws to "superlaws" or "compacts".
A Schuldenbremse is the most ridiculous concept ever - try by law to force politicians to keep a balanced budget, the same politicians who can change the laws.
Pure bullshit.
"Schuldenbremse" is one hell of a word and an even better concept, the question is what all this will be interpreted as especially by the media? Intentions are one thing consequences another.
Even German words are losing meaning...
Well, if the Italians go with it - for which Monti might get the broad support, then the French will follow.
The Italian opinion is not entrenched in this and ready to follow a serious political initiative starting from Berlin, as nearly the whole EZ.
Poland is even kicking for it.
"Important People" are meeting in Davos. They are talking about Europe and what to do. What will happen? Who knows? But, for all the blather, they probably will not do much. George Soros even offers up some blather.
I review this weekend's Barron's at my blog, including Jonathan Buck's article on Davos, among various other items of interest in this issue of the paper. Interested in taking a look? Gmail me at my name and promise you will behave. I ask for good behavior as I have had two spammers/bots/trolls get through the gates.
"a deal is near" I heard via grapevine......very close....no sweat....important people are working on it....maybe tonight...tomorrow.....very near....lol.
You have trolls? That means you are moving up!
The sounds eerily familiar to 1930s Germany.
As Woody Guthries once wtote, "Some rob you with a 6 gun and some with a fountain pen."
Its not Greece, its the System which is bankrupt!
For many years it has been absolutely crystal clear to some of us (sadly a very small minority) that many major sovereign nations are bankrupt as well as the world financial system. Banks are only surviving because they, with the blessing of governments, are allowed to value trillions of dollars of toxic and worthless assets at full value. And on top of that there are more than $1 quadrillion outstanding in derivatives. These are outside the banks’ balance sheets and there are virtually no reserves against them. The banks are netting the value down to virtually nothing and then applying a miniscule reserve against this net amount. First of all, the netting is only valid when the counterparty pays.
More
http://www.mmnews.de/index.php/english-news/9031-deus-ex-machina
" First of all, the netting is only valid when the counterparty pays."
That truth will come to kill the banks.
banks are not mortal.
impacts will be felt by those who are.
“Corporations are people, my friend,”- Mitt Romney
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romney-says-corporations-are...
Hence they are not immortal. Start pulling plugs, for the sake of the healthy to stop the contagion...not like it's real euthanasia.
The big question is: To which side will the American banks take?
"The big question is: To which side will the American banks take?"
Both.
All.
"The big question is: To which side will the American banks take?"
Both....All.....Short them all mercilessly
Eventually, the American banks will take it in the backside.
Yes.
Irish66,
To which side will the American banks take?
Better yet, WHO will America cede their soveringty to, when OUR day arrives.
Guess we know exactly how the NWO comes into force, and how its enforced.
"This is the endgame, Blade."
-Blade 3
mmmm chicken tikka
now i know what i'm going to make for dinner...thanks!
And too think Eurodollar option volatility is 1.5 bps/day in the front months... Can't wait too see what happens after the greek default.
They should also move the EU’s HQ from Brussels to Berlin.
Hitler’s dream would finally be a reality.
Deutschland, Deutschland über alles...
ANGELA #TIGERBLOOD
You both do know the difference between EU and the FRG, don't you?
"ze Germans" are not alone with some notions.
When the going gets tough and blood runs in the streets, your loyal french poodles will abandon you to your fate. Just like it has happened numerous times throughout history.
Don't be complicated. Everybody here is having fun parading their knowledge of nazi-vocabulary so don't spoil their amusement.
"Germany demands Greece give up its sovreignty" generates more heat than "Greece's creditors demand conditions on debt forgiveness."
Add some heat to a goofball cast that knows somethign close to nothing and you have a real dumbassification.
OK, it's time to ridicule Hitler: http://www.yourdiscovery.com/video/ultimate-cars-vw-beetle/
It's all so clear now. Hippies are Hitlers fault.
The English building the VW? Talk about aspirations above their station.
... or rather: Deutschland, Deutschland OHNE alles...
If you were struggling financially and also being strongarmed into assisting a sibling, would you not want some kind of control over your own money?
Blitzschuld.
[edit] Hündinnen
Not again, this has ben posted, discussed and rejected by Greek government, as posted here in ZH. WHat sort of sick joke is this; an april fool's scam in january???
Not even Merkel can be that dumb...Mensch!
She's not. This is a prelude to throwing her hands up and saying "Hey I tried. You're on your own now."
well, that is called a "disorderly bankruptcy" and the consequences have been discussed in detail. Is Merkel ready for that?
It starts a chain reaction in 2012, and signs the imminent collapse of Portugal, as the bonds there as in Spain will spike...
So, then we are in contagion in 2012...I thought they wanted to kick can in 2012!
Is there a pilot on this NWO EUro Oligarchy plane? All of Euro banking will now burn if it gets so ugly in Greece/portugal/spain, as in UK as in...USA...O'bammy election...???
Mrs LAgarde says she needed 1 T fund for that eventuality. Right now she has 200B...
"Oy. I tried. You're on your own now."
The entire sad and boring farce summarized in one short sentence, excellent ucs. TPTB are blackbelts in dialectic mass manipulation. Germany is the last place where more debt can be squeezed out. It ends when Germany is carpetbombed to death with debt like Ireland, US, Greece, Japan, Italy etc. are already dead today.
usbccanuck I think you nailed it. This latest pronouncement seems to indicate Merkel perceives her efforts have come to the end of the tether. This is her last CYA ploy before letting the shit drop.
WW III. #WINNING
Arab spring Greek style.
Deus ex Germania?
You vill pay your debts. Ve haf our vays.
I'm beginning to think this is posturing by Merkel - now she can give a speech and say "Hey I tried everything, but what more do you want me to do."
Swipe zee kredit kart alt man.
I agree.
Merkel really does believe in the EU/EZ project, but she believes still more in her political life.
As a physicist she is more capable of rational thought than most politicians. With Sarkozy looking like he is on his way out, the German bill for Greece steadily rising, and plenty of regional election losses, she has simply decided to make a series of demands that look reasonable to her own people, but unreasonable to the Greeks.
And eventually she will be able to give the speech you describe.
Hilarous how National Bank of Greece was the biggest % gainer the last two weeks.
http://www.wallstreetbear.com/board/view.php?topic=93860&post=340445
Millions in hedge fund money is still short this stock in an attempt to "make their year" if Greece defaults.
Hey RobotTrader - did you make that 128% in EK from Jan 6 to Jan 11? If you didn't, man you missed out on a great opportunity to invest in one of the greatest companies of all time.
/sarc off
Crawl under a rock and die buddy
I'll even supply him the rock, gratis.
You're long BoG then eh?
Don't listen to these idiots, Robo.
I debated going long NBG as a punt myself and didn't.
Bad on me.
Prepare for a modern (economic) Battle of Thermopylae ?
Would Greece today give up it sovereignity ?
King Leonidas: Submission? Well that's a bit of a problem. See, rumor has it the Athenians have already turned you down, and if those philosophers and, uh, boy-lovers have found that kind of nerve, then...
Theron: We must be diplomatic.
King Leonidas: [ignoring Theron] ... and, of course, Spartans have their reputation to consider.
Read between the lines, we can see follow.
The finance minister of debt-stricken Greece on Sunday rejected a proposal from Germany for the EU to take control over its tax and spend decisions, citing national sovereignty.
"Whoever hands people a dilemma between financial aid and national dignity is ignoring basic historical teaching," said Evangelos Venizelos on the eve of an EU summit on the eurozone debt crisis in Brussels.
In a statement released as he left for the meeting, Venizelos said: "Our partners know that European unification is founded on the institutional equality of member states and respect for national identity."
and interesting new words...like "submission" and "leadership" thrown into the mix.
if as I recall the new techocratic PM was a goldman guy, we know he will go all the way that he can to sell his people out for banking profits. If true I can predict he's sell his wife and daughters into slavery if it was good for the banking system.
The people who own Greece are from the same bloodlines as those who own Germany. Just as in the 20th century when they ran out of capital and began to turn on themselves, the progressives used Germany as their proxy to try and take over Europe on two occassions, they're going to use Germany again. The people who happen to live in these countries may get to go through the facade of voting, but it is not the German people who elect their leaders, just as Americans didn't out of the blue decide to vote for that thug in the White House and elect him their leader.
To put it another way, the real enemy of the German people is the very same real enemy of the American people.
What is this, some new form of racism?
And are you forgetting something about revolutions?
Either learn some history or stop trolling you moron!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothschild_family
racism? I have nothing personally against Germans, Greeks or Persians for that matter, so I refuse to play that game entirely.
edit: I was born in the UK, I beleive my personal interests would be more closely aligned with a lower middle class German or Greek than say Prince Phillip or the Queen. I couldn't care any less about nationalism and racism, there are fucked up Brits and I'm not going to blindly get a hate on for germans or anybody else.
then I do truly not understand.
the way you posed "...are from the same bloodlines..." sounds like a radical cry from the 19th century against the nobility, while others have interpreted as anti-semitism.
bloodlines as in Prince Phillip has Greek ancestory who is married the Queen of England of German ancestory, yet their loyalties lie who knows where. My ancestory is from all over Europe, yet my loyalties are clearly in my home and my small community.
Same thing goes for Jews, they're no different, their elites will sell them out same way American, British or Germans will and do when they have to, its just human nature. Unfortunately too many people are sheep and can be manipulated to follow out orders based on blind loyalty, again this isn't specific to any nationality, race or religion its human nature.
The whole western economic and banking system is falling apart, its bigger than Germany and Greece.
@global hunter - i agree with you. but if you read history - and it really amazes me, even in my old age. 'loyaltys' lie nowhere with these people. the british royal family was topping each other from god only knows when right up until diana was pregnant with a wog. betty won't even give up the crown to let her own son play king. so at the point that britain was starving out what really is there closest relative the scots and irish - what do you think they have in store for further along. and at the point they are topping their own cousins over hundreds of years, thousands - what do they have in store for the average person? and they had their hands full with keeping the military in shape do to their toppings, they had to leave the accounting to bankers.
If your father was a criminal, does this make you a criminal? And your grandfather?
If your ancestor robbed and killed for his fortune, are you to be robbed and killed for it?
You are using this word "bloodlines" very, very casually, IMHO. Perhaps you have never heard of or experienced blood feuds, pogroms and any other violence to bloodlines? The Nazis liked that word, too, and used it also in a vague and opaque way.
And I still don't understand your point. You seem to imply that "old money" seems quite persistent, if yes, well, that's quite true and common.
hapsbergs as rulers and rothschilds as their bankers. 'prince phillip' of england came from where??
Look, this is different: in the old days, Hitler would invite the leader of a small cowering land to the Eagles Nest for talks and then tell him what he wanted and that if he did not get cooperation, the leader of cowering land would be assassinated (e.g. Austria); they all left scared shitless.
NOW, the small lands ARE NOT COWERING, they say, "I PISS IN YOUR EYE YOU FUCKER GERMANS GIVE US MORE MONEY." If the small lands really want lots more money on top of lots and lots and lots of borrowed money, then they should give up their incompetence. Germany is not the bad party here.
This 'bailout' money is not going to the Greek people.
As covered on ZeroHedge, only about 19 cents of every bailout euro, goes into the Greek government operating budget. The rest flies right out to banks, most of them foreign banks, many of them French and GERMAN banks.
This is dirty, dirty business here. Even Angela Merkel has admitted at moments, that she is propping up the German banks with her actions.
It is an 1848 moment in Europe. Revolutionary momentum is building here. Belgium itself is going on general strike on Monday, partly on general principles and getting ready.
You are correct, although stating the facts in this comment section is more often than not an exercise in futility.
1 in 10 apes in here still drink the credulous koolaid, believing that this is a matter between nations and their characteristics, while engaging in the usual stereotypical branding of "poor"/"nazi" Germans and "lazy" Greeks.
They still see it as some kind of monetary exchange of honest balancees and checks between people as individual, who had some form of control over this, either from the Germans who "loaned", or the Greeks who unconditionally "spent" it without making provisions for their prudent repayment.
It is hardly probable that they look past their egotistically ethnocentric myopia, and realize that Greeks, Germans, Americans, British etc., are all segregated not by some trivial grouping, such as nationality, but by their evaluation of wealth and it's subsequent (or antecedent) social status.
People still struggle to comprehend that this is the machination of very few groups, despite the significant impact that it has on the broader, and evidently effortlessly, manipulatable masses.
Instead of realizing that they, like everyone else in here, are as insignificant pawns as the very same ethnic, national or tribal groups, that they attribute fault to, due to their ape-like mentality.
+1
I've been meaning to write something analogous to this. People desire to comment which is fine but they over-reach beyond their understanding.
Levels of intelligence are variable, but human nature is constant.
People are inherently tribal, and we have always being programmed, by both nature and exogenous forces, to function according to this premise.
@scalaris - and that in theory was what was sold to the EU member constituency - 'let's look being on being trible and culture and language and try to work together and create something better for everyone'. boy - did goldman ever find about 300 million suckers. it really is a shame.
Seriously? We're just working with the material presented. You got to admit though, the matrix is entertaining when the natives get all tribal and shit.
Cannibalism at its finest.....
playing Acropoly...
http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/a2fdf128d3b89402050f6a7067...
Let's see how the people in greece respond. Jim Rogers is spot on with his predictions. This union will crumble.
Jim Rogers helped set up the house of cards with Soros et al. He has an agenda like the rest of them rich bastards.
Everyone has an agenda.
Yeah! Like all the poor people in the world. They are trying to start a New World Order because then they will be debt slaves to the maximum.
Muahahahahaha!!!!!!!
Jim is one of the good guys and has distanced himself from Soros et al. He supports and has visited the Mises Institute. That makes him ok in my book.
Vid: http://tinyurl.com/8yyfwg3
[gasp]
There seems to be this underlying assumption that this is all a bridge too far, and finally too much was asked of Greece.
I wouldn't make that assumption. After some tough talk and posturing they'll probably go for it. We're talking about staying in the euro and keeping the bailout ponzi going. Greek politicians may bark like little doggies over this, but they won't do anything to turn off the bailout ponzi, which is their whole economy at this point.
They'll go for it. Crisis averted, again.
Greek government goes for it, Greeks riot. Greek government doesn't go for it, they are out of the euro. Looks like a catch-22 to me.
DON'T give Greece the money, there problem solved....or is it?
prains,
Bingo.............
Throwing more bad(fiat) money in after bad money, never pays.
Take the losses and let em climb out of the dungeon of debt hell they dug for themselves.
Unless of course(and we know it is),the lending bad, after bad was all the while just an instrument to get to this point.
We want CONTROL over your nations finaces,next will be your lands.
Period.
As it should be. The liberals, of course, are likening this to the eventual WIN of Hitler.
I see it as:
"You have shown NO signs of controlling yourself, you wasted the last bailout, if you want more of MY money, you will adhere to MY provisions.....CHOOSE."
Probably a more immediate and important question is what the Greek people will liken it to?
The bigger problem seems to be Japan and everyone is talking about Greece like the Gorilla doesn't exist.
Nail meet head. How about a Black Swan with that euro fever?
Well, black swans usually come from somewhere unexpected. That's the definition after all.
More like Godzilla than Gorilla IMHO ...
A quick riot, then a nap, and drinks until 4 am.
High Treason.
I am not sure most people would know High Treason if it kicked 'em in the balls or alternately, put some molar on a nipple.
Just sayin'.
uhm..."The British army was retreating from the Nazis who had invaded Greece with 15 divisions and 900 aircraft in April of 1941 through the mountains of Thessalonika. Among the units was a truck carrying three grey boxes and two larger cases in which were packed the British Army's payroll as well as a large quantity of gold sovereigns and bullion which was entrusted to the army for evacuation by Greek banks in Thessalonike. The truck left the main column to try and cut across the mountains to the coast where Allied warships were waiting to evacuate them, but the party became trapped and they buried the treasure in a cave near Mount Siniatsikon near Kozani. They then closed the cave entrance using hand grenades.."
"The importance of gold is based on the fact that force alone will only get you so far. Force creates resistance, and sooner or later it backfires or breaks down. The real power, beyond guns, nuclear weapons, or any other murderous technology, is control of banking and currency. When this control is achieved, force only needs to be used occasionally, in order to defend your control of banking and currency."
http://nazigold.greyfalcon.us/
So Germany is overly passive aggressive. Great! But here lies the rub.....
They are diferent States; diferent peoples; they have diferent rules, so why should one have have control over the others sovergnty?
If you say, 'Because Germany is bailing them out' I understand, but what then? There is no more Greece? Just Europe? How quiant.
This is like a bad marraige, it's abusive, and they should get a divorce.
The quality of this site is deteriorating rapidly :( Too bad, I really love the "serious" posts.
C'mon Dad, it's the weekend...
I'm getting sick of all the bitching and whining about this site from a bunch of fuckers who I never see write anything anyway. What did you think ZH was? For your pleasure? It's fucking Fight Club, so make it what you think it ought to be. It's free to all, remember? Why don't you fuckers add something if you are so sad. "Boo fucking hoo, this and that."
Do something, bitchez!
Besides, its not even true. Lots of new posters here within the last year who have incredible insights...
Quite so Hulk! I have seen great stuff from new people here.
Yeah, [to Hugo] Flachwichser.
Hugo, could you repost please your last serious post?
Hugo, hugo??
Roll out the Panzers, we'll have a barrel of fun
Roll out the Stukas, we'll dive in, out of the sun...
Bow down to your new Rulers:
http://www.xtimeline.com/__UserPic_Large/103220/evt110403175200069.gif
I want to believe the Greek government still has some measure of concern over it's country and will tell the German counterparties to stuff it but I suspect they will go through the theatre of resistence before surrendering control. What puzzles me is why this is being played out in front of the little people and not done on the QT. Is this where the sociopaths stir up pathetic pride only to beat them into submission? Cocky buggers aren't they.
Greece: DEFAULT.
Fire every bankster and send them packing.
Adopt grams of phyiscal gold as your currency.
And then live happily ever after.
“While over the past 2 days there may have been some confusion as to who, what, how or where is demanding that Greece abdicate fiscal sovereignty (with some of our German readers supposedly insulted by the suggestion that this idea originated in Berlin…” -- Tyler
The “confusion” exists because the banker-controlled politicians and the banker-controlled media would like to keep it a secret that the demands on Greece, whatever they might be, are the demands of the investment banks hiding behind political leaders such as Chancellor Merkel who, as far as I know, has yet to comment on the statements of her underlings.
It’s not confusing to know where these demands are coming from that will make debt slaves out of the German people who will be forced to pay off investment banker losses, primarily those of Goldman. And the proposals no more represent German “elected” officials than they do German “elected” officials of the European Central Bank… hoping to make the German people responsible for the actions of the lenders and the rulers of the Euro Zone.
And, BTW, the displeasure of readers with the gleeful and aggressive blame for these proposals to be placed on the German people may be coming not only from German readers but from American readers such as moi!
You may have missed, by accident of course, this part in your copy-paste: "...and specifically with politicians elected by a majority of the German population"
I see. zee germans also use diebold voting machines. thank you for the info.
It is my understanding, and not based on copy-paste, that Roesler was overwhelmingly elected head of his party, The Free Democrats, a junior partner in the coalition of Chancellor Andrea Merkel’s government and the third largest faction in the Bundestag. I would be surprised if this could be categorized as being elected by a majority of the German people; thus, his statements would represent the views of his center right classical liberal party and not necessarily the opinion of a majority of the German people.
Roesler is extremely ambitious and could do no worse than support demands heavily favoring the investment banker position.
That said, economically, it is only correct that lenders would ask for collateral or assurance to support the safety of their position, but the surrender of budget control to the Troika is the surrender of sovereignty, and no state, be it Portugal, Greece or Spain can agree to this without the dissolution of their governments and the break up of the euro zone because their people will demand it.
If there would be an election today in Germany, the FDP - the party of Roesler - would only get 2 %. They wouldn't even get into the parliament with that amount of votes.
Yes, Germans voted for them several years ago. Why? Well, once the FDP had a good reputation for being a economical party. And we had an election during the crisis - remember? Well, most people hoped that such a party would lead Germany out of the economical problems. The FDP was also a liberal party and is now a neoliberal party.
About Roesler:
Nobody voted for him. He wasn't chairman of the FDP back then. It was Guido Westerwelle - one of the politicians you're usually ashamed of as a German (you all probably know a politician in your own country - you're ashamed that he "represents" you). Roesler is not even respected in his own party - and that's a tiny party.
Currently, there is no real alternative here. Sure, you can vote and that's great. And now you have the choice to vote for pestilence, leprosy, cholera or would you like something else? That's the dilemma. We don't have a Ron Paul or Nigel Farage (and a German version of Nigel Farage would probably instantly trigger a comparison with Hitler in foreign countries (even if that doesn't make any sense whatsoever)...
The major parties in Germany are the SPD or the CDU. Although not really the same, you could compare them with Democrats and Republicans. The CDU is a Christian party and conservative. The SPD is basically the German version of the Labour party. And they chose to copy the English Labour party (aka TONY BLAIR)
And there are the Gruene (Greens). Well, they are not that different than the SPD - just more concerned about environmental questions (which is very popular in Germany and has to do with the German Sehnsucht for nature).
Now what's left? Die Linke, FDP and Piraten (Pirates). No other party will stand a chance to get elected into the Bundestag (parliament). So - what will happen? FDP will have no chance this time - nobody will vote for them. Die LINKE are communists. Most of their politicians are from the former East German SED - a communist party. Yeah, I'll vote for the Commies - ehm...nope.
And then there are the Pirates - a very, very young party. They will get into the Bundestag. I am sure about that. I even would say that - since most people are frustrated with politics - they will get 10 %. So what will happen? Only two choices are left - a coalition between SPD and Greens (Very likely) or a big coalition between CDU and SPD.
How many people vote in Germany? Well, according to recent numbers, half of the population isn't even voting anymore. "There is no sense in it." "Nothing will change." "They're all the same..." "Systemparteien" (Parties of the current system).
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What would a coalition between Gruene and SPD mean?
Well, were basically handing out more money and faster than before. It's the Bernanke vote. Turn on the printing machines, Meister Gutenberg.
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What would a big coalition mean (SPD + CDU)?
It depends who will be chancellor in this coalition. Merkel will probably continue "her way". But I guess that the SPD will threaten to break up the coalition if they don't start with the printing.
governments are a joke. it's a kabuki theater, I say... why does it matter who voted for whom, when and how when the hofjuden and their bankster ilks have their hands up everybody's in budestag ass? That's what I want to know.
Because of the manipulation of most of the world’s media outlets, a frank and honest analysis such as yours is hard to come by and very much appreciated. As an American, I desperately feel the loss of liberty in my country due to the erosion of representation in our government, i.e., the two-party system, by the unelected Federal Reserve System. I feel a strong concern for the German people who, like the Americans, apparently have become dominated by the same investment banks.
In reference to your information regarding party support, I note that Roesler’s Free Democrats received disastrous results this past September in Berlin city elections, garnering only 1.8% of the vote,” insufficient for the party to have any seats in the Berlin city parliament.”
Thank you for taking the time to educate us on the local situation in Germany. +10
In that case we obviously must have missed the part where Merkel has distanced herself completely from this "extremely ambitious" representative of nobody in particular.
But then again since it is all the "banksters" fault, who can possibly hold politicians, and thus the people who elect them, responsible for anything. Repeat after us: "it is all the banksters' fault."
Last but not least, "all hail democracy"... or else.
the last elections were not fought on a paltform of handing over taxes to other countries. in fact, under proportional representation and coalition dealings, governments are seldom elected on any platform at all, political strategy evolves as a result of dealing power, with the result of course, that there is no policy to vote on. merkel will fail at the next national election, same as sarkozy will, same as all european, US and japanese governments will fail, since they will be voted OUT, nobody will get voted in. herein lies the problem. there is no ability within the political or banking systems to solve the problems cause by politics and banking.
if only we could cut off governments and banks? perhaps companies and people just need to be policed (in the sense of preventing lynch mobs when they commit crimes, rather than are prevented from acting in any way, shape or form because of preventative medicine/law). i think you could conduct polls in almost any european country and find that, if the price so keep the euro is to pay for other countries worse governments, the answer will be "hell no". of course, polticians will be told by the bankrolling bank paymasters that the right to vote on any issue of substance that detracts from the current legalised racketeering must not be allowed.
oh, and just exactly how does the UK escape all the attention, time and again? is there some secret cabal that says the UK is exempt from examination simply because it can use Zimbabwenomics to buy promises to repay its horrible structural deficit? I very much liked the posts elsewhere on zero hedge that discussed the differences between cash and debt. central banks issue debt and simply substitute short term debt (cash) for long term debt issued by its parent (treasury debt). these are both debt, not cash...or are they! :>)
We have a winner!
"Proportional Representation" is the poison - an agreeable sounding concept, but one that plagues the populace with dysfunctional, aimless governing structures. Conservatives are forced to pander to strident interest groups, socialists are forced to enter into bizarre, unworkable coalitions.
Get rid of this failed experiment of proportional representation, and bring back true democracy - first past the post. This is the only means by which policy options can be sensibly adumbrated for those who choose to vote, and effected without having to kow-tow to diverse pressure groups, including the banksters.
Democracy is a failed, lousy system, but it's the best we've got!
First Around The Post shifts the "bizarre, unworkable coalitions" to the election phase, IMO.
Though I am not aware of FATP being better in coping with diverse pressure groups, including lobbyists, or of not being capable of creating dysfunctional governing structures.
The true beauty of Proportional Representation is in the fact that the danger for parties to fail/dissolve is much greater - they are not systemic-relevant. Last time a party "died" in the US was, as far as I know, at the times of the Whigs, in the 1850s.
But of course, the true king and tyrant of humankind is Custom.
Maybe it is just our readers who "escape" to actually read ZH posts time and again:
Psssst France: Here Is Why You May Want To Cool It With The Britain Bashing - The UK's 950% Debt To GDP
But hey - commenting is so much easier then reading.
i think i also commented that most of that 950% debt was foreign subs debt and the amount did not reflect assets, but i did read that one
I think it started with some harmless clickbaiting and now you find yourself in an argument, that's difficult to win, Tyler. And certainly not by equating the deeds of an government with the "majority" (that being an estimated 20% of the total) of the people. But it's ok, Tyler. We love you nonetheless. Come on, now get your head between those gigantic tits of mine :)
JR has a laser-like focus and hypersensitivity to all things national when it comes to blame. Certainly Goldman won't suffer any prosecution for what they did in the Greek scandal but we can always go after the nations themselves.
Roesler's position is not quite stable, and some believe that he " is too soft for the hard conflicts and decisions of the world of politics" (Döring). Roesler's statement might be just an attempt to demonstrate that he is a capable politician.
The German Banksters made a big mistake.Dont take from the Greeks something that they never had:Their dignity their freedom.
Nobody is easy to rule the greek people and the history of their nation haw many examples...thermopylai,Marathon,salamis,zaloggo,kougki etc.
So if the German banksters try to do their plan they will have many problems not only Germany but the whole Europe will be explode.
Remember the Greek :????? ????=MOLON LAVE =COME TO TAKE
The same problem will exist for the domestic traitors of the greek people.
It looks like to have the same situation that happened after the second world war
the domestic traitors to be executed.
Deutsche Bank, Germany's largest bank, is headed by Paul M. L. Achleitner who serves as a Director of Future Unit of Oesterreichische Nationalbank and is a former Vice President of Mergers & Acquisitions of Goldman Sachs & Co., New York, and partner of Goldman Sachs Group.
Remember this from April of 2009:
“Without the government money,” said Bloomberg, “Goldman, Merrill Lynch & Co., Morgan Stanley, Deutsche Bank AG and other firms could have become some of the biggest creditors in a bankruptcy filing by AIG, the world’s largest insurer, because of the billions in losses on subprime bonds and corporate debt…
IE: BAILOUT!, speaking of levels of dignity…
Google Earth just took Greece off the map. It's now euroeece
Submitenland
Defaultistan
Fettfleck
Ouzombies
GreEZ
.
Dont be sure about it Wait .....
Greece's government needs to get his butt kicked and sent to jail.
Then Greece needs to pull an Iceland and tell the EU to piss off, they don't need their stinking money.
Hallo Iceland, this is Greece calling...
May we haf your votes pleaze.
This is a very astute comment.
Following Iceland's example would be the fastest way back to health.
Do I expect Greece to move in this direction?
Not a chance.
There is so much ignorance in this thread about Iceland it's painful and a discredit to ZH.
All Iceland did was let its Banks fail and refused to pay back the lost deposits of those customers.
Greece needs far more than to let its banks fail, it is not Iceland for fucks sake!