It's Official: German Economy Minister Demands Surrender Of Greek Budget Policy, Says It Is First Of Many Such Sovereign "Requests"

Tyler Durden's picture

While over the past 2 days there may have been some confusion as to who, what, how or where is demanding that Greece abdicate fiscal sovereignty (with some of our German readers supposedly insulted by the suggestion that this idea originated in Berlin, and specifically with politicians elected by a majority of the German population), today's quotefest from German Economy Minister Philipp Roesler appearing in Germany's Bild should put any such questions to bed. And from this point on, Greece would be advised to not play dumb anymore vis-a-vis German annexation demands. So from Reuters, "Greece must surrender control of its budget policy to outside institutions if it cannot implement reforms attached to euro zone rescue measures, the German economy minister was quoted as saying on Sunday. Philipp Roesler became the first German cabinet member to openly endorse a proposal for Greece to surrender budget control after Reuters quoted a European source on Friday as saying Berlin wants Athens to give up budget control." And some bad news for our Portuguese (and then Spanish) readers: you are next.


"We need more leadership and monitoring when it comes to implementing the reform course," Roesler, also vice chancellor, told Bild newspaper, according to an advance of an interview to be published on Monday.


"If the Greeks aren't able to succeed themselves with this, then there must be stronger leadership and monitoring from abroad, for example through the EU," added Roesler, chairman of the Free Democrats (FDP) who share power with Chancellor Angela Merkel.


Reuters reported on Friday that Germany wants Greece to give up control of budget policy to European institutions as part of discussions over a second rescue package.


Greece, which has repeatedly failed to meet the fiscal targets set out by its international lenders, is in talks to finalise a second 130 billion-euro ($172 billion) package.


With many Greeks blaming Germans for the austerity medicine their country has been forced to swallow, officials in Athens dismissed the idea of relinquishing budget control as out of the question.


Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos said on Sunday Greece was perfectly capable of making good on its promises.


"Anyone who puts a nation before the dilemma of 'economic assistance or national dignity' ignores some key historical lessons," he said in a statement before heading to Brussels for a European Union summit on Monday.

And by the way, this is just the beginning:

A government source in Berlin said Germany's proposal was aimed not just at Greece but also at other struggling euro zone members that receive aid and are unable to make good on their obligations.

So yes, it is true, and Germany is dead serious. Ball is in the Greek court now: just how far will the new technocrat PM go to sell its people in exchange for a few banker smiles?

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Acet's picture

More like Godzilla than Gorilla IMHO ...

Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

A quick riot, then a nap, and drinks until 4 am.

Uncle Remus's picture

I am not sure most people would know High Treason if it kicked 'em in the balls or alternately, put some molar on a nipple.

Just sayin'.

Negro Primero's picture

uhm..."The British army was retreating from the Nazis who had invaded Greece with 15 divisions and 900 aircraft in April of 1941 through the mountains of Thessalonika. Among the units was a truck carrying three grey boxes and two larger cases in which were packed the British Army's payroll as well as a large quantity of gold sovereigns and bullion which was entrusted to the army for evacuation by Greek banks in Thessalonike. The truck left the main column to try and cut across the mountains to the coast where Allied warships were waiting to evacuate them, but the party became trapped and they buried the treasure in a cave near Mount Siniatsikon near Kozani. They then closed the cave entrance using hand grenades.."  

"The importance of gold is based on the fact that force alone will only get you so far. Force creates resistance, and sooner or later it backfires or breaks down. The real power, beyond guns, nuclear weapons, or any other murderous technology, is control of banking and currency. When this control is achieved, force only needs to be used occasionally, in order to defend your control of banking and currency."

Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

So Germany is overly passive aggressive.  Great!  But here lies the rub.....

They are diferent States; diferent peoples; they have diferent rules, so why should one have  have control over the others sovergnty?

If you say, 'Because Germany is bailing them out' I understand, but what then?  There is no more Greece?  Just Europe?  How quiant.

This is like a bad marraige, it's abusive, and they should get a divorce.

Hugo Moron's picture

The quality of this site is deteriorating rapidly :( Too bad, I really love the "serious" posts.

Jena's picture

C'mon Dad, it's the weekend...

Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I'm getting sick of all the bitching and whining about this site from a bunch of fuckers who I never see write anything anyway.  What did you think ZH was?  For your pleasure?  It's fucking Fight Club, so make it what you think it ought to be.  It's free to all, remember?  Why don't you fuckers add something if you are so sad.  "Boo fucking hoo, this and that."

Do something, bitchez!

Hulk's picture

Besides, its not even true. Lots of new posters here within the last year who have incredible insights...

DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Quite so Hulk!  I have seen great stuff from new people here.

Uncle Remus's picture

Yeah, [to Hugo] Flachwichser.

Calmyourself's picture

Hugo, could you repost please your last serious post?
Hugo, hugo??

Uncle Remus's picture

Roll out the Panzers, we'll have a barrel of fun
Roll out the Stukas, we'll dive in, out of the sun...

Winisk's picture

I want to believe the Greek government still has some measure of concern over it's country and will tell the German counterparties to stuff it but I suspect they will go through the theatre of resistence before surrendering control.  What puzzles me is why this is being played out in front of the little people and not done on the QT.  Is this where the sociopaths stir up pathetic pride only to beat them into submission?  Cocky buggers aren't they.    

honestann's picture

Greece:  DEFAULT.
Fire every bankster and send them packing.
Adopt grams of phyiscal gold as your currency.

And then live happily ever after.

JR's picture

“While over the past 2 days there may have been some confusion as to who, what, how or where is demanding that Greece abdicate fiscal sovereignty (with some of our German readers supposedly insulted by the suggestion that this idea originated in Berlin…” -- Tyler

The “confusion” exists because the banker-controlled politicians and the banker-controlled media would like to keep it a secret that the demands on Greece, whatever they might be, are the demands of the investment banks hiding behind political leaders such as Chancellor Merkel who, as far as I know, has yet to comment on the statements of her underlings.

It’s not confusing to know where these demands are coming from that will make debt slaves out of the German people who will be forced to pay off investment banker losses, primarily those of Goldman. And the proposals no more represent German “elected” officials than they do German “elected” officials of the European Central Bank…  hoping to make the German people responsible for the actions of the lenders and the rulers of the Euro Zone.

And, BTW, the displeasure of readers with the gleeful and aggressive blame for these proposals to be placed on the German people may be coming not only from German readers but from American readers such as moi!

Tyler Durden's picture

You may have missed, by accident of course, this part in your copy-paste: "...and specifically with politicians elected by a majority of the German population"

Pseudo Anonym's picture

"...and specifically with politicians elected by a majority of the German population"

I see.  zee germans also use diebold voting machines.  thank you for the info.

JR's picture

It is my understanding, and not based on copy-paste, that Roesler was overwhelmingly elected head of his party, The Free Democrats, a junior partner in the coalition of Chancellor Andrea Merkel’s government and the third largest faction in the Bundestag. I would be surprised if this could be categorized as being elected by a majority of the German people; thus, his statements would represent the views of his center right classical liberal party and not necessarily the opinion of a majority of the German people.

Roesler is extremely ambitious and could do no worse than support demands heavily favoring the investment banker position.

That said, economically, it is only correct that lenders would ask for collateral or assurance to support the safety of their position, but the surrender of budget control to the Troika is the surrender of sovereignty, and no state, be it Portugal, Greece or Spain can agree to this without the dissolution of their governments and the break up of the euro zone because their people will demand it.

PY-129-20's picture

If there would be an election today in Germany, the FDP - the party of Roesler - would only get 2 %. They wouldn't even get into the parliament with that amount of votes.

Yes, Germans voted for them several years ago. Why? Well, once the FDP had a good reputation for being a economical party. And we had an election during the crisis - remember? Well, most people hoped that such a party would lead Germany out of the economical problems. The FDP was also a liberal party and is now a neoliberal party.

About Roesler:
Nobody voted for him. He wasn't chairman of the FDP back then. It was Guido Westerwelle - one of the politicians you're usually ashamed of as a German (you all probably know a politician in your own country - you're ashamed that he "represents" you). Roesler is not even respected in his own party - and that's a tiny party.

Currently, there is no real alternative here. Sure, you can vote and that's great. And now you have the choice to vote for pestilence, leprosy, cholera or would you like something else? That's the dilemma. We don't have a Ron Paul or Nigel Farage (and a German version of Nigel Farage would probably instantly trigger a comparison with Hitler in foreign countries (even if that doesn't make any sense whatsoever)...

The major parties in Germany are the SPD or the CDU. Although not really the same, you could compare them with Democrats and Republicans. The CDU is a Christian party and conservative. The SPD is basically the German version of the Labour party. And they chose to copy the English Labour party (aka TONY BLAIR)

And there are the Gruene (Greens). Well, they are not that different than the SPD - just more concerned about environmental questions (which is very popular in Germany and has to do with the German Sehnsucht for nature).

Now what's left? Die Linke, FDP and Piraten (Pirates). No other party will stand a chance to get elected into the Bundestag (parliament). So - what will happen? FDP will have no chance this time - nobody will vote for them. Die LINKE are communists. Most of their politicians are from the former East German SED - a communist party. Yeah, I'll vote for the Commies - ehm...nope.

And then there are the Pirates - a very, very young party. They will get into the Bundestag. I am sure about that. I even would say that - since most people are frustrated with politics - they will get 10 %. So what will happen? Only two choices are left - a coalition between SPD and Greens (Very likely) or a big coalition between CDU and SPD.

How many people vote in Germany? Well, according to recent numbers, half of the population isn't even voting anymore. "There is no sense in it." "Nothing will change." "They're all the same..." "Systemparteien" (Parties of the current system).
What would a coalition between Gruene and SPD mean?
Well, were basically handing out more money and faster than before. It's the Bernanke vote. Turn on the printing machines, Meister Gutenberg.

What would a big coalition mean (SPD + CDU)?
It depends who will be chancellor in this coalition. Merkel will probably continue "her way". But I guess that the SPD will threaten to break up the coalition if they don't start with the printing.

Pseudo Anonym's picture

governments are a joke.  it's a kabuki theater, I say...  why does it matter who voted for whom, when and how when the hofjuden and their bankster ilks have their hands up everybody's in budestag ass?  That's what I want to know.

JR's picture

Because of the manipulation of most of the world’s media outlets, a frank and honest analysis such as yours is hard to come by and very much appreciated. As an American, I desperately feel the loss of liberty in my country due to the erosion of representation in our government, i.e., the two-party system, by the unelected Federal Reserve System. I feel a strong concern for the German people who, like the Americans, apparently have become dominated by the same investment banks.

In reference to your information regarding party support, I note that Roesler’s Free Democrats received disastrous results this past September in Berlin city elections, garnering only 1.8% of the vote,” insufficient for the party to have any seats in the Berlin city parliament.”

Jendrzejczyk's picture

Thank you for taking the time to educate us on the local situation in Germany. +10

Tyler Durden's picture

In that case we obviously must have missed the part where Merkel has distanced herself completely from this "extremely ambitious" representative of nobody in particular.

But then again since it is all the "banksters" fault, who can possibly hold politicians, and thus the people who elect them, responsible for anything. Repeat after us: "it is all the banksters' fault."

Last but not least, "all hail democracy"... or else.

hooligan2009's picture

the last elections were not fought on a paltform of handing over taxes to other countries. in fact, under proportional representation and coalition dealings, governments are seldom elected on any platform at all, political strategy evolves as a result of dealing power, with the result of course, that there is no policy to vote on. merkel will fail at the next national election, same as sarkozy will, same as all european, US and japanese governments will fail, since they will be voted OUT, nobody will get voted in. herein lies the problem. there is no ability within the political or banking systems to solve the problems cause by politics and banking.

if only we could cut off governments and banks? perhaps companies and people just need to be policed (in the sense of preventing lynch mobs when they commit crimes, rather than are prevented from acting in any way, shape or form because of preventative medicine/law). i think you could conduct polls in almost any european country and find that, if the price so keep the euro is to pay for other countries worse governments, the answer will be "hell no". of course, polticians will be told by the bankrolling bank paymasters that the right to vote on any issue of substance that detracts from the current legalised racketeering must not be allowed.

oh, and just exactly how does the UK escape all the attention, time and again? is there some secret cabal that says the UK is exempt from examination simply because it can use Zimbabwenomics to buy promises to repay its horrible structural deficit? I very much liked the posts elsewhere on zero hedge that discussed the differences between cash and debt. central banks issue debt and simply substitute short term debt (cash) for long term debt issued by its parent (treasury debt). these are both debt, not cash...or are they! :>)

spdrdr's picture

We have a winner!

"Proportional Representation" is the poison - an agreeable sounding concept, but one that plagues the populace with dysfunctional, aimless governing structures.  Conservatives are forced to pander to strident interest groups, socialists are forced to enter into bizarre, unworkable coalitions.

Get rid of this failed experiment of proportional representation, and bring back true democracy - first past the post.  This is the only means by which policy options can be sensibly adumbrated for those who choose to vote, and effected without having to kow-tow to diverse pressure groups, including the banksters.

Democracy is a failed, lousy system, but it's the best we've got!

Ghordius's picture

First Around The Post shifts the "bizarre, unworkable coalitions" to the election phase, IMO.

Though I am not aware of FATP being better in coping with diverse pressure groups, including lobbyists, or of not being capable of creating dysfunctional governing structures.

The true beauty of Proportional Representation is in the fact that the danger for parties to fail/dissolve is much greater - they are not systemic-relevant. Last time a party "died" in the US was, as far as I know, at the times of the Whigs, in the 1850s.

But of course, the true king and tyrant of humankind is Custom.

Tyler Durden's picture

Maybe it is just our readers who "escape" to actually read ZH posts time and again:

Psssst France: Here Is Why You May Want To Cool It With The Britain Bashing - The UK's 950% Debt To GDP

But hey - commenting is so much easier then reading.

hooligan2009's picture

i think i also commented that most of that 950% debt was foreign subs debt and the amount did not reflect assets, but i did read that one

KlausK's picture

I think it started with some harmless clickbaiting and now you find yourself in an argument, that's difficult to win, Tyler. And certainly not by equating the deeds of an government with the "majority" (that being an estimated 20% of the total) of the people. But it's ok, Tyler. We love you nonetheless. Come on, now get your head between those gigantic tits of mine :)

GeneMarchbanks's picture

JR has a laser-like focus and hypersensitivity to all things national when it comes to blame. Certainly Goldman won't suffer any prosecution for what they did in the Greek scandal but we can always go after the nations themselves.

citrine's picture

Roesler's position is not quite stable, and some believe that he " is too soft for the hard conflicts and decisions of the world of politics" (Döring). Roesler's statement might be just an attempt to demonstrate that he is a capable politician. 

alfa's picture

The German Banksters made a big mistake.Dont take from the Greeks something that they never had:Their dignity their freedom.

Nobody is easy to rule the greek people and the history of their nation haw many examples...thermopylai,Marathon,salamis,zaloggo,kougki etc.

So if the German banksters try to do their plan they will have many problems not only Germany but the whole Europe will be explode.

Remember the Greek :????? ????=MOLON LAVE =COME TO TAKE

The same problem will exist for the domestic traitors of the greek people.

It looks like to have the same situation that happened after the second world war

the domestic traitors to be executed.


JR's picture

Deutsche Bank, Germany's largest bank, is headed by Paul M. L. Achleitner who serves as a Director of Future Unit of Oesterreichische Nationalbank and is a former Vice President of Mergers & Acquisitions of Goldman Sachs & Co., New York, and partner of Goldman Sachs Group.

Remember this from April of 2009:

“Without the government money,” said Bloomberg, “Goldman, Merrill Lynch & Co., Morgan Stanley, Deutsche Bank AG and other firms could have become some of the biggest creditors in a bankruptcy filing by AIG, the world’s largest insurer, because of the billions in losses on subprime bonds and corporate debt…

IE: BAILOUT!, speaking of levels of dignity…

max2205's picture

Google Earth just took Greece off the map. It's now euroeece

lolmao500's picture

Greece's government needs to get his butt kicked and sent to jail.

Then Greece needs to pull an Iceland and tell the EU to piss off, they don't need their stinking money.

Uncle Remus's picture

Hallo Iceland, this is Greece calling...

Divine Wind's picture

This is a very astute comment.

Following Iceland's example would be the fastest way back to health.

Do I expect Greece to move in this direction?

Not a chance.

smiler03's picture

There is so much ignorance in this thread about Iceland it's painful and a discredit to ZH.

All Iceland did was let its Banks fail and refused to pay back the lost deposits of those customers. 

Greece needs far more than to let its banks fail, it is not Iceland for fucks sake!