It's Official: German Economy Minister Demands Surrender Of Greek Budget Policy, Says It Is First Of Many Such Sovereign "Requests"

Tyler Durden's picture

While over the past 2 days there may have been some confusion as to who, what, how or where is demanding that Greece abdicate fiscal sovereignty (with some of our German readers supposedly insulted by the suggestion that this idea originated in Berlin, and specifically with politicians elected by a majority of the German population), today's quotefest from German Economy Minister Philipp Roesler appearing in Germany's Bild should put any such questions to bed. And from this point on, Greece would be advised to not play dumb anymore vis-a-vis German annexation demands. So from Reuters, "Greece must surrender control of its budget policy to outside institutions if it cannot implement reforms attached to euro zone rescue measures, the German economy minister was quoted as saying on Sunday. Philipp Roesler became the first German cabinet member to openly endorse a proposal for Greece to surrender budget control after Reuters quoted a European source on Friday as saying Berlin wants Athens to give up budget control." And some bad news for our Portuguese (and then Spanish) readers: you are next.

More:

"We need more leadership and monitoring when it comes to implementing the reform course," Roesler, also vice chancellor, told Bild newspaper, according to an advance of an interview to be published on Monday.

 

"If the Greeks aren't able to succeed themselves with this, then there must be stronger leadership and monitoring from abroad, for example through the EU," added Roesler, chairman of the Free Democrats (FDP) who share power with Chancellor Angela Merkel.

 

Reuters reported on Friday that Germany wants Greece to give up control of budget policy to European institutions as part of discussions over a second rescue package.

 

Greece, which has repeatedly failed to meet the fiscal targets set out by its international lenders, is in talks to finalise a second 130 billion-euro ($172 billion) package.

 

With many Greeks blaming Germans for the austerity medicine their country has been forced to swallow, officials in Athens dismissed the idea of relinquishing budget control as out of the question.

 

Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos said on Sunday Greece was perfectly capable of making good on its promises.

 

"Anyone who puts a nation before the dilemma of 'economic assistance or national dignity' ignores some key historical lessons," he said in a statement before heading to Brussels for a European Union summit on Monday.

And by the way, this is just the beginning:

A government source in Berlin said Germany's proposal was aimed not just at Greece but also at other struggling euro zone members that receive aid and are unable to make good on their obligations.

So yes, it is true, and Germany is dead serious. Ball is in the Greek court now: just how far will the new technocrat PM go to sell its people in exchange for a few banker smiles?

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lolmao500's picture

That's called war. 25 million Russians were killed and are they calling this genocide? No. STFU now.

allenaki's picture

ccording the population it s clear genocide

Eclipse89's picture

To lolmao:

I know that you are angry because your girlfriend has the menstruations, but this doesn't allow you to say bullshits.

C-B77's picture

I am ashamed to have been born in the same country as you. Whatever compensation Greece was entitled to from Germany, it was obviously exchanged for something else by the great Greek political leadership long time ago. Fucktards like you can shout all they want but the truth is that whatever "leverage" Greece got from that entitlement if it didn't go for the benefit of Greece as a country then it probably went to the benefit of some of the morons that we call "parliament" in the past 35 years and their friends. So why don't you go do something usefull and ask it from them? 

allenaki's picture

check this :

www.filikietairia2010.gr

and this: nasostsaganelis.gr for the amounts

bluestaq's picture

Anyone else notice the large increase in earthquake activity in Europe, most notably in Greece and Turkey.  Coincidence?  Or could it be the folks at HAARP are trying to create a need for a large "humanitarian mission" to Greece?  

Instant Wealth's picture

Simple plate tectonics - Greece is breaking away from Europe, sailing on the earth's crust towards Africa. Happy End.

Joseph Jones's picture

IMO TPTB have machines controlling the weather, and definitely have the ability to cause earthquakes and other allegedly "natural disasters" with man-made machines. 

smiler03's picture

Don't forget the Japanese Earthquake was man made.

Malaka.

Let The Wurlitzer Play's picture

We are not arguing what you are - just the price..

Ghordius's picture

the pure archaic-doric-laconic beauty of "molon labe" is it's shortness, though leaving the initiative to the other players, so shifting all blame and attracting fame and glory even in defeat. good solid game theory behind it

Caviar Emptor's picture

Nobody's covered this point: this move by Germany will send what's left of Greece's educated class and whoever has money rushing for the exits, an accelerating spiral. 

MsCreant's picture

LMAO. Where will they go?

No where to run to baybee, no where to hide.

Laretes's picture

Of some importance here is that Rösler is the leader of a party that in polls currently sits at about 3%, meaning they would not enter the parliament at the next election (5% is the lower limit). In other words: He is desperate to score, no matter how.

About 75% of the German population is against further payments to Greece - easy enough for Rösler to jump on that bandwagon and be the first to publicly make such a statement.

Byte Me's picture

TD

Let'ssee if I have this straight.

Germany provokes Athens via proxy to give up what it can not give up (unless this is what "subsidiarity" really is). Athens - backed into a corner decides to default, setting off the protection derivatives involved for this flea-bite.

The rest of the Periphery considers whether to play 'monkey-see monkey-do' -- Read:- Portugal, Ireland and HUngary for openers. It gets out of hand splendidly as Spain and Italy are sucked in, and Germany, facing a systemic finacial colapse, picks up its marbles and washes its hands?

No country cedes its sovereignty voluntarily -- it does so after military exchanges and Dear Deuchland doesn't have an army worth spit (for good reason).

I am aware that Hungary is non-eurozone but its external borrowing is hardly a picture of sobriety.

alwaystoolate's picture

You are misguided by the media. Do not mention Hungary together with Portugal or Ireland. At least you are aware that HU is non-eurozone. Congratulations. Look at the naked numbers before you write über-smart comments. This was for my Hungarian half.

As for my other half which is German, I can tell you that Germany has no ambitions whatsoever to "suck in" any other countries. All the world is demanding that the Germans to pay for whole Europe? So the Germans put down their claims. You do not pay if you do not get something in ex-change - in this case some controll.

Finally: do not mix up EU with the Germans where they do NOT have the majority in any way.

Ghordius's picture

well written, now I thirst for an Hungarian perspective, please post some in future.

trilliontroll's picture
The Declaratory Act  

BRITISH PARLIAMENT, 1766

"An act for the better securing the dependency of his majesty's dominions in America upon the crown and parliament of Great Britain.

....

may it therefore please your most excellent Majesty, that it may be declared ; and be it declared by the King's most excellent majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the lords spiritual and temporal, ...

..That the said colonies and plantations in America have been, are, and of right ought to be, subordinate unto, and dependent upon the imperial crown and parliament of Great Britain; ...

to make laws and statutes of sufficient force and validity to bind the colonies and people of America, subjects of the crown of Great Britain, in all cases whatsoever, ... "

link:  http://ahp.gatech.edu/declaratory_act_1766.html

C-B77's picture

As for my other half which is German, I can tell you that Germany has no ambitions whatsoever to "suck in" any other countries. All the world is demanding that the Germans to pay for whole Europe? So the Germans put down their claims. You do not pay if you do not get something in ex-change - in this case some controll.

 

Angela? 

You are probably right though, why control this mess when you can let it burn (after you benefited greatly) and then have them beg you to pick up whatever is left for peanuts. 

Byte Me's picture

Gosh,

I'll make sure that I do that at once...NOT

Lol!!

trilliontroll's picture

The currency act of 1764:

 

... may it please your most excellent Majesty, that it may be enacted; and be it enacted by the King's most excellent majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the lords spiritual and temporal,

... That from and after the first day of September, one thousand seven hundred and sixty four, no act, order, resolution, or vote of assembly, in any of his Majesty's colonies or plantations in America, shall be made, for creating or issuing any paper bills, or bills of credit of any kind or denomination whatsoever, declaring such paper bills, or bills of credit, to be legal tender in payment of any bargains, contracts, debts, dues, or demands whatsoever; and every clause or provision which shall hereafter be inserted in any act, order, resolution, or vote of assembly, contrary to this act, shall be null and void. ...

V. Provided also, That nothing herein contained shall extend, or be construed to extend, to make any of the bills now subsisting in any of the said colonies a legal tender.

keeping appearances's picture

Whatever is coming down the road, I got the feeling it "ain't gonna be pretty."  So are the Germans preparing for the start of a financial World War III using their financial clout to take over Greece, Spain and Portugal?  Perhaps Italy as well?  It should be interesting to see what Nagal Farage says about all of this......  No matter what, I bet the Squid has a hand in whatever happens......

JR's picture

Zero Hedge’s handling of the Troika proposals on Greece implying at times “annexation, colonization,” etc. by Germany fosters this type of low information reaction.

GeneMarchbanks's picture

There is a reduced generality effect that is taking hold by readers who want a prepackaged narrative...

Ghordius's picture

oh, I'm dying to hear what Nigel Farage has to say over this. Perhaps he will ask his German wife if she lusts for Greek annexation?

but wait, he a member of the one parliament that would get more power from this... decisions, decisions...

ekm's picture

Noooooo man. Nothing is serious. Germans just want the system to be cleaned up, aka few banks collapse, but .........they DO NOT WANT TO BE BLAMED FOR IT.

It's just a matter of blame.

wandstrasse's picture

The good thing about Minister Rösler is that he not only IS a puppet, like all other leading politicians - he also LOOKS like a puppet.

ekm's picture

Great observation. I'm sure he's got no other income and would like to maintain the job. In North America, they call it Career Politician.  In Europe they simply call them Politicians.

Instant Wealth's picture

Doctor of Medicine (M.D.), age 39, adopted from an orphanage in Saigon 1973, stepfather Luftwaffe flight instructor, married, two children ...

supermaxedout's picture

Sounds like a good deal for Greece. Germany is organizing a strategic default for Greece which erases 50% of its debt. Plus Greece gets fresh money for 3. something%. Plus they get a consulting service for free to modernize their goverment structures trying to dampen the corruption in Greece. The Greek population is not happy but that is much more what was expected.

And the price for this package for the average Greek.  He has to accept, that the corrupt elite of his country is loosing some power (anyhow not for long, since the fat allways swims on top of the soup). Not a bad deal. At least there is hope that the things are moving in the right direction.

But its a bad deal for Wall Street and the City and some other big European banks. They have to take the hit through the necessary write downs in value, plus it  triggers the payment of CDS since there cant be any doubt, that such a haircut is a default. Otherwise nothing ever is regarded as a default. One could stretch this new "default rules" to extreme extents. As longs as a debitor pays 1 cent for the Dollar and the creditor accepts this as full payment, then it can be argued with the same right that it is not a default.  Since this is complete rubbish there can only be one outcome. Greek is declared as fully defaulted on its financial obligations. And this is what is going to happen now.

Deutsche Bank had bought protection (CDS) against a Greek default from US banks.  Otherwise Deutsche Banks balance sheet would look not so good anymore. And now the US banks have to pay so that Deutsche Banks balance sheet does not get a fatal hit..   But just now, wonder o wonder, I heard it today in the news, Deutsche Bank is sued in US by the SEC because of their fraudulent role in the Mortgage Backed Security crime.  But why only Deutsche Bank ?. Simply because they jumped ship away from the big US banks.

 

ekm's picture

Thank you, sir. At least somebody is doing the math.

groundedkiwi's picture

Some brilliant satire here on the greek situation.  http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/

ekm's picture

People, come back to your minds. Listen, I'm from  the Balkans and live in Toronto. Here me out here:

Greece is too too important strategically. It practically controls all mediterraneans. The island of Crete has a Nato base with nuclear submarines, it's soooooo important. Nobody wants national protects in Greece against USA and Nato.

Solution:

- Greece will be bailed out via few European bank collapses.

- Opeationally, Greece will invoke CAC (collective action clause) which will lead to Lehman in Europe. A Lehman for Europe is very good for the system.

 

Nobody For President's picture

Seems there are two threads here: The 'Modest Proposal' that requests Greece give up significant budget authority, and Germany as a bad guy lender. 

The Modest Proposal seems outfront to be a bank cartel wet dream channeled through the FDP, but there are  other possibilities: the cynics' favorite - Merkel is looking for an out and is trying to force a Greek' default so Germany can exit stage left; or it is a simple pressure tactic on the Greek Parliment to finally really, really get serious; or it is an EU trial ballon of dirigible proportions with the obvious punchline that it is named LZ129;

or (your favorite theory here).

I vote for the 'looking for an exit' strategy - Merkel and crew have spent two plus years saying "The Euro must be preserved" blah blah: a big time face-saver is required. I suspect this may work; it is probably not possible for Goldman's man in Greece to convince the Greek parliment to either go along with the Modest Proposal OR to come up with enough real austerities with real mechanisms in place to ensure compliance and satisfy the banksters Troika - and Get The Cash within six weeks and counting. If this is more or less correct, then the end game is clear: settle the PSI and ensure a credit event to trigger the CDS and allow the hedgies and the banks left still holding some Greek paper to exit with some real money; Germany (also fronting for other northern tier countries) says no more bailout cash because there are no Greek mechanisms to ensure austerity; Greece defaults on the March debt payments; the banks get nationalized; and hello drachma. Portugal politicians wet their pants.

 

So, is Germany the bad lender? Seems a lot of ZHers are into dragging the Nazis back in, but it does take two to tango. The creation of the EZ and the Euro common currency gave the southern tier countries a big fat credit card, and (surprise, surprise) the politicos went ape shit outdoing one another in 'expanding the social network' and providing the voters with an unsustainable pile of goodies. (Not that the US is any damn different, mind you.) The bill is (over)due. So, as per the US housing bubble, the borrowers get screwed, some lenders lose money, and the money mechanics make out like the bandits they are.

 

My optomistic prediction for Greece is that things are going to get worse before they get worse.

 

Now, can we turn our attention to Portugal? I have my new bag of popcorn. 

 


ekm's picture

I vote for the 'looking for an exit' strategy" - You get my vote.

As to Portugal, it's already in the sack. Once Greece forces losses, Portugal, Ireland etc will jump right in, regardless of the fact that most of Portugal bonds are issued under brittish law. We need a clean up.

sunny's picture

One would think that such a demand, coupled with the internationally recognized rude hand/finger gesture that Greece must offer in response that the default of Greece is unambiguously at hand.  First Greece then anyone else that TPTB might think need supervision.  How strange then that as I type the euro is at pretty much a high not seen since early last Dec. Shouldn't the euro be crashing?  What am I missing?

sunny

ekm's picture

It has already crashed too much and too fast already. Give it some more time since a lot of banks have run out of euros to sell.

hooligan2009's picture

don't forget the other two (very ugly) sisters to europe, namely the us and japan, both of which are in a worse solvency position than europe as a whole. think of it this way, if you were a global investor and could take currency risk anywhere..which currencies would you rather have, the euro, the yen and the US dollar? or the remnimbi, the real, the norwegian krone and dare i say it...gold?

don't forget the euro was issued at US$1.19 per euro, dropped to 0.82cents per euro and peaked at US$1.60. the currency markets have this as one big "ugly sisters" hobson's choice.

Mary Wilbur's picture

As I've said, annexation without firing a shot. It's German economic imperialism. 

JR's picture

What, pray tell, is the origin of this fanatical view of German economic success as, somehow, a Teutonic war machine?

“Annexation without firing a shot”? My word, the only time “annexation” is mentioned is when a hugely anti-German faction is trying to turn back the clock to 1939.

Have not the German people suffered enough from prejudice by those who use Hitlerism to claim the German populace was “keen to go along for the ride”?  How long will it be before the accusations and the ill will against the German people come to an end?

Consider developments after WWII:

In 1947, a defeated, divided, truncated, occupied Germany was a mass of rubble, its economy a desperate scratching for subsistence.

Although the Marshall Plan enabled Germany’s people to rebuild a free society and a free economy, a predecessor blueprint for genocide became the on-going principal occupation policy directive – a policy that aimed at the destruction of a nation’s people. It was the Morganthau Plan, drawn up by America’s Jewish wartime Secretary of the Treasury, Henry Morganthau and his closest advisory, Harry Dexter White, a member of a Communist espionage ring in Washington while he served as Assistant Secretary of State.

It aimed at the permanent destruction of Germany’s industrial heart and the consequent death through starvation and disease of millions and tens of millions of Germans.

Time magazine has aptly called it “history’s most terrifying peace”.

The conservative newsletter, Review of World Affairs, quotes the plight of the German people after the war as follows from a confidential memorandum prepared by an eminent European economist:

“Since the end of the war about 3,000,000 people, mostly women and children and over-aged men, have been killed in eastern Germany and south-eastern Europe; about 15,000,000 people have been deported or had to flee from their homesteads and are on the road.  About 25 per cent of these people, over 3,000,000, have perished.  About 4,000,000 men and women have been deported to eastern Europe and Russia as slaves….” Quoted by Sen. Homer Capehart in speech before U.S. Senate, Feb. 5, 1946.

Dr. Lawrence Meyer, executive secretary of the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod, after a tour of Germany at the time stated:

“About 16,000,000 German refugees east of the Oder are being deported from their homes.  It has been estimated that already 10,000,000 have been driven out.  The human tragedy and suffering caused by this ’Volkswanderung’ are unparalleled in history…”

An authentic eye-witness reported…

“A large barge is slowly being towed across the Oder River.  In it, lying on straw, are 300 children ranging from 2 to 14 years of age.  There is hardly a sign of life in the whole group.  Their hollow eyes, their swollen bellies, knees, and feet are telltale signs of starvation.  These are merely the vanguard of hundreds of thousands—millions of homeless, shattered, hungry, sick, helpless, hopeless human beings fleeing westward – west of the Oder and Neisse rivers.

“A trust in God—in his goodness and mercy—these are the only hope of Germany today.  And thank God in many there is still faith in God against which the gates of hell have stormed in vain during the past decade.” (Capehart)

And, then, after Germany surrendered, their soldiers surrendered to the Aliies thinking that they would be treated more fairly than by the Soviet hoards. Eisenhower, however, promptly declared and designated the surrendered German soldiers as "defeated enemy forces" or DEF.

As one ZH commenter said: “Then began the liquidation of over 1 million surrendered and captured German soldiers, mostly very young or old because Germany had run out of men at the end of WWII.  They were literally starved to death in open concentration camps guarded by Allied forces, with no food, toiletries, or shelter.  Anyone who tried to bring them food or anything were shot on sight.  Some 1.2 million Germans were literally starved to death by Eisenhower after WWII.”

Joseph Jones's picture

IIRC Jewish wartime Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morganthau invented the oxymornic term "Judeo-Christian" in order to tip anti-war American sentiment against Germany and into the war.  The term itself is a lie: it implies a permanent connection between "Judaism" and Christ where none exists.  Firstly Judaism is the religion of the Pharisees who murdered Christ.  Secondly the term Jew first appeared in history in print in the year 1775 AD (see Oxford Dictionary, don't take my word for it).  So in truest fact Jesus was not a Jew because no such term existed till one thousand seven hundred years later.  If you protest that I argue simple semantics, I agree.  The superior point is that OT Hebrews are not "Jews" (a Judaic scientist well documented the DNA origin of ME "Jews" is Khazaria of central eastern Europe, not the ME...but that's another story).  There is no such thing as a Hebrew "race", at least not Scripturally.   

OT Hebrews are split into two groups, those actually chosen by God for their "faithfulness" to God (called the "remnant"), and the unfaithful who God did not save.  We see in Acts that God labels the spiritual father of some Hebrews "the devil", not God...also see "say not that you have Abraham as your father" said directly to physical descendants of Abraham.  Why?  Because Christ denies salvation by race. 

To say one is saved spiritually by one's physical Judaic DNA is the religion of the Pharisees who murdered Christ and modern Judaism, the exact opposite of what Christ taught, which is salvation by faith.  A modern Jew denies Christ is God, the opposite of Chrisitianity.  So it is impossible to say one denies Christ and worships Christ as the term Judeo-Christian implies.  There is no such thing as a Judeo-Christian anything.  

Besides, per the OT all vestiges of the OT Law are fulfilled in Christ.  The next time you see Allan Dershowitz, asked him what two dates did he last visit "The Temple" (the real temple, the one Rome destroyed in 70AD) as the OT mandates for every Hebrew male.  Alan will laugh and reply he can't visit the temple because it's gone.  To which I reply, yes, Alan, it's gone, and so is all the Hebrew religion and politics with it, fulfilled in Christ.     

Also, the words Pilate placed on the crucifix do not state "Jesus King of the Jews", but rather, "Jesus of Nazareth, Leader of the Judeans"....in the 1st CAD the term "Judean" solely describes a person who lived in Judea and nothing else.  Its sum total religious meaning is...zero.  The sign simply means: Jesus lived in Nazareth and started a clan of followers in the town of Judea.

The mere mention of any of these apparent truths of Judaism and Jews and Israel places one's head square on the Judaic chopping block of history.  One risks permanent loss of work and possibly even life depending on where you live.  

But any and all slander against any other people, especialy Germans, is endorsed and encouraged, all in the name of enlightenment.  

Professor Debra Lipstadt wants holocaust deniers imprisoned for life, while she relishes denying the allies holocaust against Germany in Dresden (40k innocent civilians fried....btw, soon after Hitler was elected he abolished the voting right of Germans to remove him from office)      

AnAnonymous's picture

And dont forget one thing: US of A military treated their enlisted negroes worse than they treated German prisoners.

You get to love negroes: anytime US citizens fly into a propaganda fit, the negro card trumps them all and brings them back to reality.

supermaxedout's picture

US of A military treated their enlisted negroes worse than they treated Germans. That is not true,

At the age of 25, after 9 years of being a soldier and prisoner of war in France my father got  in 1949 a job as driver for the US Army in Mannheim.  He told me that the Germans and the Negroes serving in the Army had very good contact and relations. Later on he was still long in contact with one of his black buddies from this time.

My father explained me why Black American soldiers and Germans were fraternizing that easy. He said: The Negreos in the Army were treated just a very little tiny bit better than the Germans by the officers and the white soldiers in general.  The Germans and the Negroes were both treated not as an human beings, more like animals at that time.

He said, it was somehow understandable for him, that he was treated this way. He said, he had to be happy, that he got permission from them  to continue his life. This was only counting for him, everything else was luxury. But what he could not understand, how the Black soldiers were treated by their officers, since my father knew by personal experience on the battlefields that these black men were excellent and brave soldiers. Many gave their life or health for America and all what they got as a "danke schoen" was a kick in the butt.

So as an ironic consequence of WW2 Germans and Black Americans became quickly friends and treated each other as equals.  This was a general occurance and it left its traces in  Germany. You hardly find a country in this world more open to interracial marriages. Today its absolutely normal and accepted that Black and White is marrying and having children. Only former Eastern Germany which was occupied by Russia till 1990 has still some areas where racism and white supremacy thinking is still alive.  But its getting lesser and lesser.

 

Laretes's picture

Der Spiegel again

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/0,1518,812081,00.html

Greece's mighty promise to get 50 billion Euros from privatizing state-owned property was of course a joke from the start and the actual earnings are far behind the 50 billion. Even better, the head of the department that is responsible for the privatization admitted that the numbers were 'made up on a lucky guess'.

More and more I do think that somebody non-Greek should run this country.