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Jamie Dimon Says JPM Could Lose Up To $5 Billion From PIIGS Exposure

Tyler Durden's picture


In an interview with Italian newspaper Milan Finanza on Saturday, JP Morgan CEO Jamie Dimon said that he could lose up to $5 billion from the firm's exposure to the PIIGS countries. As Reuters reports, "Dimon said the bank was exposed to the five countries (PIIGS) to the tune of around $15 billion. "We fear we could lose up to $5 billion ... We hope the worst won't happen, but even if it did happen, I wouldn't be pulling my hair out," he said. Dimon said Europe was the worst problem for the banking sector. "But the EU and euro are solid even if the states will have to be financially responsible and do all they can to develop common social policies," he said." While it is admirable of JPMorgan to disclose some of its dirty laundry, as this was a topic that received hardly any mention in the firm's prepared quarterly release, and is predicated surely by the fact that its Basel III Tier 1 Common of $122 billion dwarfs this possible impairment, there are some questions left open. Such as what happens if and when Greek CDS, now most likely before March 20, were triggered? And the logical follow up - what happens when Portugal, Ireland, Spain and Italy, and who knows who else (Hungary?) follow suit and decide that a coercive restructuring is actually not suicidal, even though it most certainly is once a given threshold is reached. In other words, how long can Europe tolerate the same two-tiered sovereign debt market that S&P warned about so explicitly yesterday? Finally what happens to JPM's Tier 1 Common when the European dominos impact not only the directly exposed PIIGS nations, and specifically their bonds, but all those other banks, insurance and reinsurance companies, whose current viability makes up the balance of JPM's remaining $117 billion in Tier 1? Because in its essence, stating that JPM is "fine" even if Europe were to collapse is analogous to Goldman telling Congress it would collect on its AIG CDS if and when the CDS market were to implode absent the government bailout of AIG, which itself was accountable for over $2 trillion of the entire CDS market itself.

More on what Jamie said:

Dimon said the recent extraordinary liquidity measures taken by the European Central Bank had been a good move.


"Banks will have to have more capital and sell assets, but at least they have liquidity," he said.


Asked about the U.S. Federal Reserve's bank stress tests, which will come out in March, Dimon said his bank would pass.


"I hope the test shows American banks, perhaps with one or two exceptions, are very well capitalised, indeed too much," he said.

No they are not, and we hope everyone understands this - after all in a world in which daisy-chained liabilities are rehypothecated via the shadow banking system into virtual infinity, the failure of one bank would lead to the failure of hundreds, and explains why no bank has been allowed to fail. Last we checked, the nationalized fate of Dexia is still in limbo. Which also explains why the only strategy so far has been to make banks TBTF: simply - so they can step in and buy firesale assets where the Fed and other central banks are politically prohibited from entering. As Jamie himself admits:

Asked if the bank could take advantage of the problems facing Europe's
banks and buy assets, he said, "we have already bought some assets and
would like to possess others".

Bingo - Europe's collapse, which according to some is getting its "financial advice" from JPM, it JPM's gain. Until a point of course - that point being where the impairment of assets overtakes the preexisting capital buffer. And with Europe having trillions and trillions of debt that has to be marked down by at least 50% for it to be viable, not even JP Morgan would survive a realistic reassesment of the debt "problem."


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Sat, 01/14/2012 - 12:46 | 2064585 Mongo
Mongo's picture

I can hear US taxpayers chanting "JAMIE JAMIE JAMIE...."

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 12:57 | 2064593 Squishi
Squishi's picture


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:11 | 2064608 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

"But the EU and euro are solid even if the states will have to be financially responsible and do all they can to develop common social policies,"

What does that mean "common social policies"?  Is that when they all band together to share cattle cars and railroad tracks to send the "enemies of the people" to the camps? 

This is really scary shit.  The ongoing creep of government with the blessing of the financial and corporate powers continues.  The problem is that at some point that creep of government goes too far.  The breaking point is reached.  So many people have been bought off for their compliance to the state that the state can no longer pay. 

That is what happens when an entity like the Soviet Union can no longer pay.  Everybody just says "fuck it".  They were willing to go along when they were at least getting paid, or pretending to get paid.  Just look at the good old USofA and the creep of government.  The public unions are paid.  And just look at the armies of police, regulators, inspectors, administrators that are now choking the shit out of the constitution.   The welfare recipients are paid.  The farmers are paid.  The financiers are paid (oh, boy, are they paid).  The students are paid (and too stupid to know that they will be shackled forever by that payment).

All along the line everybody gives up their freedom to ensure their cut of the governmental graft.  Just ask those 30 cops at Zuccotti Park, with their millions worth of equipment, to watch over 6 rag-tag hippies, one with a cat in his jacket.  They will go along as long sa they are getting paid.  They will bust heads and praise Big Bro-man as long as the direct deposit hits every other Friday.  Everywhere you see the government's mercenaries, ready to defend their sugar daddy.

Until the pay stops.  Then those common social policies of which Mr. Dimon seems so fond all go haywire.  And another era is born.  It's freedom and responsibility or its oligarchs and pepper spray.  I don't know the future but I know that government's ability to buy people off is coming to an end.  That is what all this is about.  They know it.  They just hope nobody else does. 

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:22 | 2064623 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

I highly recommend this short read. It describes the rise of the Praetorian class (described above) which guards the elite and its degenerating effect on society and the body politic.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:01 | 2064676 Kayman
Kayman's picture


Our praetorians are the 1% and the overpaid, overbloated bureaucracy. Always ready to dispense with the constitution and natural justice.  Everyready to isolate and insolate themselves from their fellow man.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:14 | 2064795 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



U.S. banks increased sales of insurance against credit losses to holders of Greek, Portuguese, Irish, Spanish and Italian debt in the first half of 2011, boosting the risk of payouts in the event of defaults.

Guarantees provided by U.S. lenders on government, bank and corporate debt in those countries rose by $80.7 billion to $518 billion, according to the Bank for International Settlements. Almost all of those are credit-default swaps, said two people familiar with the numbers, accounting for two-thirds of the total related to the five nations, BIS data show.

But.. But! .. BUT!!

The payout risks are higher than what JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM), Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. (GS), the leading CDS underwriters in the U.S., report. The banks say their net positions are smaller because they purchase swaps to offset ones they’re selling to other companies. With banks on both sides of the Atlantic using derivatives to hedge, potential losses aren’t being reduced, said Frederick Cannon, director of research at New York-based investment bank Keefe, Bruyette & Woods Inc.

“Risk isn’t going to evaporate through these trades,”Cannon said. “The big problem with all these gross exposures is counterparty risk. When the CDS is triggered due to default, will those counterparties be standing? If everybody is buying from each other, who’s ultimately going to pay for the losses?”

Tyler and Bloomberg both are just being negative nellies! they just need to think Positive Thoughts!

and then the Inner Beauty of the Inside thoughts will shine thru to the outside.. thusly the World will be a Wonderful place to live!

Unicorns frollicing outside and shitting / raining skittles down from above!

AAAAAHHHHHHHH! the Joy of happy thoughts!


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:27 | 2064820 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



Bank for International Settlements

Monetary and Economic Department

CH-4002 Basel, Switzerland


Monetary and Economic


Detailed tables on preliminary

locational and consolidated

banking statistics

at end-June 2011

Oct 2011


Will Congress make technical corrections to Dodd-Frank before the 2012 elections? As more examples of unintended consequences emerge, will the U.S., Europe and Asia be able to find common ground to harmonize new rules to prevent regulatory arbitrage? Join Congressman Ed Royce(CA-40) and Dan Cohen, head of global government relations for DTCC, in the latest edition of DTCC’s Financial Reform In-Focus podcast series. Watch as they tackle these and other key issues in the financial reform debate.


Download a copy of this podcast here

Related Podcast

An Interview with Michael C. Bodson of The Depository Trust & Clearing Corporation (DTCC)
Will the indemnification provision of Dodd-Frank undermine the legislation’s goals of bringing greater transparency and risk mitigation to the OTC derivatives market? Will the principles of user choice and open access be reinforced in the final Rules to protect the integrity of the trade reporting process for OTC derivatives?


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:38 | 2064837 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"Bloomberg News lists itself as a creditor in the collapse of MF Global." NY Times--Friday the 13th, 2012. then it "delists itself as a creditor" which spokesperson for said "bloomberg news" was quoted as saying "was odd since we are a creditor." just in case you were wondering who...among many of course... was stealing the billion(s?) plus. it was also noted that "MF Global represented a significant amount of the revenue that Bloomberg News reported." One company? REALLY? Goes to show you no matter how you..."bug"...your employees...not only does it not constitute good risk fact it represents THE WORST RISK MANAGEMENT TECHNIQUES IN THE HISTORY OF FINANCE. Now...shall we proceed directly to a TRUE discussion of what terrorism ACTUALLY PRACTICED is?

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 16:25 | 2064891 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Jamie Dimon is a sociopathic narcissist - and a POS.


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 16:36 | 2064906 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

He wears nice girlie loafers and his mother loved him very much.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 13:13 | 2066351 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Alright then... Fuck him & the loafers he walked in on...

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 16:27 | 2064898 Manthong
Manthong's picture

If he is admitting to $5B, the reality has to be a lot more.


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 19:21 | 2065164 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

$5B sounds better than $5T.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 21:28 | 2065421 Manthong
Manthong's picture

If you think about, it can't be as little as $5B.

Heck, BofA alone comingled $53 Trillion in Merrill synthetics bets in with deposits.

Maybe Dimons direct PIIGS bond holding is a paltry, measly, insignificant $5B..

but what about the CDS's with everyone else who hold bacon bonds? 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 15:06 | 2066042 zhandax
zhandax's picture

You are missing the point, Jamie is willing, right now, to man up and write down $5B.  And that's the end of discussion.  Capiche?  /sarc

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:39 | 2064839 Kayman
Kayman's picture

If everybody is buying from each other, who’s ultimately going to pay for the losses?”

Well, for now you will pay for the losses, sinces losses have been assigned to Governments.

Meanwhile all the fees, from churning and skimming, will be paid out as bonuses.

Have a nice day.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 17:07 | 2064951 SillySalesmanQu...
SillySalesmanQuestion's picture



I for one have seen the Joy of Happy thoughts after visualizing 'bout those unicorns... :)


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 18:43 | 2065030 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



If everybody is buying from each other, who’s ultimately going to pay for the losses?”

Central banks of course.

Central banks are the true "bad banks", printing currency and buying declining paper at full original value, loading up their balance sheets with trillions of dollars / euros of paper "assets" that are nearly worthless or completely worthless.

Just this week we hear ECB is lowering its "standards" for Euro sovereign debt it will accept in LTRO.

This is the same thing Fed did in '08 and '09 to "rescue the financial system", accepting all manner of worthless and near-worthless paper as long as it had a AAA rating ...which is why rating agencies gave AAA ratings to all that worthless trash financial paper, so Fed could ultimately buy it and pay full price for it commissions and fees.

Fed's and ECB's balance sheets are the most toxic of all banks, stuffed with boatloads of near-worthless AAA rated paper, and will get more toxic as they carry out their "bad bank of last resort" role going forward.

Will taxpayers ultimately pay the bill?

No, of course not.  US and Euro monetary systems will collapse first.

But taxpayers will take the hit in another way.  The currency they use will become worthless, and every currency-based asset they have will become worthless.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:54 | 2064666 Kayman
Kayman's picture


Precisely.  We are now completely the full retard Soviet pretend world.  You pretend to pay me and I pretend to work.

The Work Ethic has been replaced by Legalized Criminality.  You (everyone of us) is thought a fool to actually work for a living.  Perhaps we are...

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:44 | 2064847 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

the fact that a Judge allows it does NOT make it legal. The gold bars HAVE SERIAL NUMBERS ON THEM. Steal them...okay. Declare it..."legal" in the sense of "this is how we declare bankruptcy around here." no problem! it's STILL STEALING. In other only need an English Major to understand this type of..."finance"...and of course "past returns are in no way a predictor of future results. all comments said here are meant as editorial ripostes only are done solely for sake of entertaining the masses and in no way constitute investment advice in any meaningful form. for the full legal text please contact your friends at CNBC/legal and they will gladly inform of the risks in assumeing anything we say...or in anyway related to either getting at, finding or believing in the truth in any way shape or form! have a nice day!"

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 06:04 | 2068196 taeonu
taeonu's picture

“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.”

- Frederic Bastiat - (1801-1850) 
Economic Sophisms

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:01 | 2064778 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

Poor JPM, and poor poor poor Jamie Diamond [s are a Girlie Boys Best Friend]. I really truliest hope they already got their buneruses - I wouldn't know what to do if us taxpayers can't get another B-Counter loan from China to boost poor poor JPM's boneruses profile so all them stroker broker ace trader types talent won't leave Jamie high and dry to work somewheres else!

Here's to double dog hoping S&P downgrades the US really really, and very really, soon, to put JPM stock back on top of the inflation carry racket before all them high fa-looting JPM talents have to go bunz-up to new Jack Lew and force the very very busy Mr. Lew to break from his duties to consult his gypsy tarrot card reader as to whether or not to accept another under bonerused JPM "ex" regarding the mostest unorthodoxy practice of highering a non Goldman white house staff job applicant.

If it weren't for all them Wall Street FAT cats in the white house, they'd being playing find the shekels with pesos at the K-Street Kiddie Brothels!

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:50 | 2064856 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

it ends when you "lose the war." needless to say the greatest battles are fought...inside the mind.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 20:06 | 2065266 smb12321
smb12321's picture

Excellent summary. Our direction has nothing do with conspiracy yet evey single action is the next logical step toward "control". When the USSR collapsed we noticed that the State literally ran out of money; folks were on their own. The underground economy (haggloing exchange rates in Red Square - LOL) prevented starvation and total collapse. The difference was that they were not used to the welfare state wherein everything from child care to liposuction to tuition and housing were provided.

Strangely, those pushing us to autoritarianism are convinced it's for the good of the people (Jesus, I hate that phrase.)  I always thought "Atlas Shrugged" a fanciful tale but the similar pathways to an all-powerful State are eerily similar.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:39 | 2064737 Clayton Bigsby
Clayton Bigsby's picture

Time to pick up a villa in Como on the cheap, so I can hang with Clooney and Branson...

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:12 | 2064787 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

JPM's head bankster can make up any number he has polled to see if you believe. Orders of magnitude away are of no consequence since Treasury TG is in his digital zero machine in the hidden tunnel dug by freshly-pardoned Nuevo Laredo mule traffickers sent through Well's Wachovia arm being between 33 Liberty and One Chase (Manhattan) Plaza bound only by  William and Nassau Streets and guarded by jack-booted military types that only Deutche Bank was foresighted enough to employ since before the Event.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 22:44 | 2065529 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Jamie, are you sure it is just $5 billions or you just forgot a zero at the end?

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 12:47 | 2064586 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

Very bullish.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 12:49 | 2064587 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

The heading should be "Jamie Dimon is a fucking Pig and will be slaughtered soon"

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:20 | 2064688 fleur de lis
fleur de lis's picture

Jamie Dimon is in no position to look down his big, booger-packed schnoz at piigs, raats, rooaaches, tiicks, or anything else I left out, in fact they are his betters, at least they all serve a purpose if for nothing else but keeping exterminators employed.  Dimon's name should be an adverb for parasitic activity.

He was spawned out of early Bolshevik sludge, his grandfather was Panos Papadimitriou, a banker ( what else ) involved in the (non) Turkish Revolution that destroyed the Ottomans, and broke up the ME for easier oil management by the Roths. He comes from the same family of vermin whose life cycles require infestation of monetary systems.

The railroad built by the Sultan to make pilgrimages to Mecca easier for his subjects was seized afterwards and used to control the whole area.

I apologise for calling Dimon a piig as that is an insult to pigs everywhere.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:37 | 2064731 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

God damn right...
That's what I've been talking bout.....

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:39 | 2064736 Muddy1
Muddy1's picture

"We fear we could lose up to $5 billion ... We hope the worst won't happen, but even if it did happen, I wouldn't be pulling my hair out," he said.

Of course he's not worried.  Ben will just arrange another bailout, and Jamie won't miss his bonus.  Ever notice when a big problem arises it's "their fault", as in the PIIGS?  But when things go well it's look at me and the great things I'm doing?

Bitchez, every one of them.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 16:13 | 2064869 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture


The wanker is a pathological liar and a sociopath.

This sentence displays it:  ""I hope the test shows American banks, perhaps with one or two exceptions, are very well capitalised, indeed too much,"

With one or two exceptions?  BOA and Citi Jamie?  Notice how he hints at the insolvency of the competition, then intimates that J.P. Morgue has "too much" capital.

Off the top of a skyscraper would work.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 02:26 | 2065817 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

... then intimates that J.P. Morgue has "too much" capital.

With the sad understanding JPM is cluster fuck cloister of chronic low iodine droolers, he probably be holding Euros or Urinals or both as de aforementioned capital (dey still trying to work dat one out in the sanctuary of JPM's Bugger the Donkey Room).

Doesn't JPM still have all that weak dollar bet stash of industrial metal tucked away in some humongous vault in London?

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 12:51 | 2064591 imaginalis
imaginalis's picture

What a serious load of turd scrapings. He is only going to lose money because of the problems in Europe? No problems here of course, everything is just peachy, move right along.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:24 | 2064626 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

He is right.  As long as the government keeps having $1.5 trillion plus deficits, underfunding Social Security by way of the payroll tax cut, silence Ron Paul and his followers, continue to strip Americans of their rights, enlist Fannie and Freddie to "fix" housing, continue to buy off every possible voter and maintain the world's largest military everything should come up cherries.  I don't see any problems.  Maybe you are just too negative. 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 04:50 | 2065888 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

Social Security has always run a surplus at X 100's of Billions / year. At the end of 3Q 2011, in fact, our very famous synogress swapped a stack of USTs for 110 Billion in SS cash (did about the same at end of Q1 2011) that will have to be sold at a discount to the 110 Billion swap amount - either that - or be held to maturity (same diff huh) to get the same, but probably weaker USD units. SS should insist on some precious or [at least] get some TIBs in the weighting of any cash swaps they to with the fondlers on the hill.

UST yields are so low it probably ain't worth the bookkeeping cost to do the swaps for sure. And, the transactions probably go through the primaries soze the trust fund can toss a generous margin stand to synogress friends on the Wall Street. IOW: SS recipients might do better if the cash was just left in SS vaults.

When you look at the IRS individual verses corporate receipts, the receipts from individual taxpayers are a majority of the pie relative to corporate receipts. Guessing if one were to add in FICA receipts (just the 1099 and W2 FICA), then the corporate slice of the pie would be a narrow sliver, indeed, and not worth the dirty cake dish and counter space used to "make it available".

That would be an interesting breakdown: Individual IRS receipts vs Corporate IRS receipts vs  1099 FICA receipts vs W2 FICA receipts vs Corporate FICA receipts vs Capital Gain receipts. Odds are the base (the producers: 1099 and W2 IRS and FICA receipts) would overwhelm [the consumers] Capital Gains and Corporate IRS and FICA receipts.

Jess postulo-guessing it be da wey it is fer sure.


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:10 | 2064686 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

It remeinds me of the CEOs involved in the Fall of '08 (AIG/Bear/Lehman) that came out right before their banks collapsed and said everything is fine.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 12:56 | 2064592 Irish66
Irish66's picture

Well if this story doesn't make you get your money out of too big too fail, you are an idiot.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:15 | 2064612 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Uhh...hold on...I'll be right back.


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 12:57 | 2064594 bpom
bpom's picture

Gap up on Tuesday.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 12:59 | 2064597 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

Long ink.

Short reality

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:02 | 2064600 f16hoser
f16hoser's picture

5 Billion - 1.2 Billion (stolen from MFG Customers @ gunpoint) = 3.8 Billion.

CMON Dimon, do the math right!

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:22 | 2064624 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Awe phishizel.  You wen der di'nt ya.

Pop a cap in the ass of that comment.  dead on baby.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 18:31 | 2065069 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



It was $6.2 billion before the MFG heist.

Now it's only $5 billion.

Doing God's work, ripping off the goyim.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:04 | 2064601 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

thxz for the dexia update and the "systemic" strategy of using zombies where CBs are not allowed to feed

anybody else wondering how much of this "exposure" = recently added re-hypothecated assets from, say, a failed PD...?  L0L!!!

i see where the morgue took in $3 Billion by selling its own IOUs last week, too...

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:07 | 2064604 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

IOW, Jamie Dimon, CEO, is a JPM FAILURE. The bigger they are, the harder they fall. He's the only one who benefited from the housing bubble. He should be the only one who has to answer to the private bank cartel families.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:07 | 2064605 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

JPM is at the very top of the PigMen Food Chain.


That is why this news/announcement is extremely bullish.

Why is that?

Because JPM is the prime brokerage/banker for the Rothschilds, Bilderbergers, and virtually all the high-end "by invitation only" money manglers like Bessemer Trust.

Flat out, JPM will be bailed out, come hell or high water.

They have absolutely nothing to worry about regarding:

1) Being the number one "Derivatives Colossus" on the planet

2) Being a huge lender to the PIIGS countries

3) Being short billions of ounces of gold and silver

TPTB will do everything and anything to keep this monstrous entity afloat, and will steer financial markets accordingly to JPM's favor.

Dimon is sandbagging right now, eventually the PigMen will turn the credit markets around in JPM's favor and next time JPM reports it will be "less bad" or "beat 'da numbah" time and JPM's stock will skyrocket and drag the entire XLF up with it.

As Tim Wood would say "You Have Been Warned"!!!


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:09 | 2064607 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

LOL is right!

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:14 | 2064689 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

They have been bailed out.  This is not just about bailing out the Nation-States, but their (private) banking sectors.  The House of John Pierport Morgan is directly caught in this shitshow (and it created said shitshow, by the way, like the man J.P. Morgan did one hundred years ago so to have cause to institute the Federal Reserve Bank) because if the CDS are triggered they lose on the debt.  Of course, they own the CDS too, but who cares what you own when a continent collapses.

Europe collapses, the US collapses, flase flag, probably all this year.  Can't wait for 2013....

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:28 | 2064627 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

i knew an Andy Bessemer once. I have no idea who he was. As a history major i do remember ANDREW Bessemer: his process "invented steel on a mass scale"...also known as the Bessemer Process. That literally created the world we live in the USA today: a world of steel everywhere: from our Skyscrapers to (more importantly) the nails we use to mass produce housing in the USA. Is it the "Buildaburger Trust" now? anywho...when your Federal Government can literally "take out the entire country of Iran" without firing a shot i think they can do whatever they want to Jamie Dimon's Bank...SHOULD THEY WISH TO of course. Obviously neither you nor I want anything bad to happen to that bank...we want them to succeed...we want their shareholders to be rewarded "beyond the dreams of avarice"...a dark day for capitalism indeed were it to fail! No private entity is "too big to fail" tho. That's just a myth propagated by the media. The media COULD make the claim "they're too big to BAIL"...but that only makes "the beast" (aka Uncle Sam)...VERY ANGRY. (don't anger the beast, brother. don't anger the beast.)

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:26 | 2064632 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

I really hate the fact that Robo is exactly right..  Until there is hunger, no rule, no law, no contract will bring this crumbling ponzi down as it is the structure not built to feed upon a structure like Madoff's but is in fact the structure itself and it will devour us all to maintain itself.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:27 | 2064715 Kayman
Kayman's picture

$1.5 trillion budget deficits for the foreseeable future,  $6 trillion in accumulated Balance of Payments deficit (past 10 years) including another $500 billion for 2011.

Yeah, an economy that effectively has a $2 trillion operating loss annually, against conjured up growth prospects of $300 billion. 

Hell yeah. More of the same ought to fix it. 

/Sarc off

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 18:54 | 2065119 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Praise to you for doing the math. Now, how does the prudent man respond?

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:28 | 2064634 AC_Doctor
AC_Doctor's picture

RoboRoach, go back into your dark crevices in your windowless world...

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 17:01 | 2064850 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

A similar notion... ;-) Applies to Jamie too...
Crawl back into the hole from which you came: asshole.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:37 | 2064650 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

wow! Robot T. "Flat out, JPM will be bailed out, come hell or high water" I believe! I believe! 


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:53 | 2064769 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

"turn the credit markets around in JPM's favor"?

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:20 | 2064807 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

JPM Dimon and the Fed + Treasury TG = Good Cop, Bad Cop. Feel good, lose big. Rinse, repeat.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 18:08 | 2065022 Bubbles_2.0
Bubbles_2.0's picture

I thought the bears silver video's would bring down JPMorgan.



Sat, 01/14/2012 - 19:19 | 2065098 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Flat out, JPM will be bailed out, come hell or high water.

Yep, I agree, JPM will be bailed out time after time after time, receiving trillions of dollars of American's wealth along the way.

It's one big citizen looting spree with printed currency

...until the currency is worthless. 

Curious what will happen then.

Meanwhile, enjoy your (imaginary) paper profits Robo :)

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 21:02 | 2065376 fightthepower
fightthepower's picture

The Soviet Union will not allow itself to fall. The Reich will last 1000 years. LOL!

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:09 | 2064609 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

Thanks Jamie!


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:15 | 2064613 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Listen carefully! Can you hear it?

I am playing a sad tune on the worlds smallest violin for this pathetic POS.

 This will be bad for his extra blow and hookers bonus, no?

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:16 | 2064616 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

to me what is far more important is what happens if the CDS's are NOT triggered not if they are. while i understand the logic of "the payments can't be met and the bailouts will ensue" should the CDS's be triggered...that a DEFENSE of the market and therefore "the deck chairs on the Titanic will be rearranged" as they have many ways since the actual Titanic sunk. The sole exception of course...the true "outlier" as it were... is the Great Depression. That was when the DJIA hit a low of around...was it 12 points? While i am in no way arguing that's about to happen (if we finish the year around 12,000..."Dow points"...that's sounds pretty good to me) if we are to ask "what is the CDS market" to me it looks identical to what the DJIA was back in the 20's and ultimately the 30's. In other words "this thing does have the ability to go to nil." That's what would happen in my view if instead of bailouts you get "total market annihilation" by the actual SOVEREIGN (and not some "mystical" one) saying...simply: "we're not gonna pay that." We do know this for a fact: the talks have already broken down between the so called "private sector" and the Greek Government. They see what's going on in the rest of Europe via debt monetizations--they're wondering why they're being left out. Here's the video feed of the negotiations:

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:43 | 2064721 Kayman
Kayman's picture


Hey, didn't you get the memo ?  The Titanic didn't sink; it has just been delayed.

yours truly,  T.H.E MSM

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:56 | 2064861 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

it's wreckage was discovered. shall we...Raise the Titanic then?
or is it better to let the ghosts...lie where they lay?

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:18 | 2064618 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

How did JP Morgans helping the greece hide their debt to gdp ratios help with this common social policies thing.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:18 | 2064619 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture


Judge upholds multiple gun reporting to ATF rule, bye 2nd, we hardly knew ya..


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:44 | 2064655 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

Ferret Holder's "Fast Furious" has had its decided effect.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:47 | 2064660 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Means shit.

Go to a Gun Show and buy 20, one off each table if YOU needed to.

Go to every store in your town that sells buy one, every INTERNET dealer buy one.

Just a little inconvenience.

When they do these inane things, all they accomplish is  increased sales.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:22 | 2064703 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Thanks, like your posts, preaching to the choir reverend..

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:23 | 2064625 uno
uno's picture

video of Blythe on Xmas cruise


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:31 | 2064631 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

"JPMorgan Chase spent $3.2 billion last year to fight lawsuits, almost all of them over poorly written mortgages. That was down from $5.7 billion in 2010, but it made clear that housing still haunts the bank, five years after the bubble burst.The bank said Friday that it set aside $528 million in the last three months of 2011 to fight lawsuits. It also spent $925 million in the fourth quarter to carry out foreclosures and handle mortgage defaults.

“There’s still a huge drag,” CEO Jamie Dimon said. “I mean, you’re talking about several billion dollars a year in mortgage alone.”

The expenses took a bite out of JPMorgan’s quarterly profit, which fell 23 percent from a year earlier, to $3.7 billion, and missed Wall Street expectations. Stocks across the banking industry declined as a result.

For the full year, JPMorgan, the nation’s largest bank, posted a record profit of $19 billion, up from $17.4 billion in 2010.



Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:40 | 2064741 Kayman
Kayman's picture


Lawyers are leeches.  The same criminals that charged for writing the mortgages and the derivatives are now charging for protecting you from the consequences of their shit paper.

Old joke: What is the difference between a Catfish and a Lawyer ?  One is a scum sucking bottom feeder and the other is a fish.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 17:01 | 2064943 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Hey, we agree!


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:23 | 2064814 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Sometimes there is no good way to get the sh%t out of the sandwich without destroying the sandwich itself.  Time stands still and I'm out of there. Sherwood Forest is just fine here.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:28 | 2064635 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Tyler, you got the headline wrong ... When Dimon says ""We fear we could lose up to $5 billion ... ", that sentence is properly completed with "of the Taxpayers' money."

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 16:16 | 2064874 ozziindaus
ozziindaus's picture

Exactly! Who's backing the CDS's? I'll tell you now, if there's another bail out, I'll FUCKING JUST LOSE IT!!!

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 17:42 | 2064997 Dugald
Dugald's picture

Well, ok, but would it be worth coming to watch?????

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:32 | 2064638 AC_Doctor
AC_Doctor's picture

$5 billion is $50 billion in Jamie Dimon's pathologically demented world...


adj \?pa-th?-?lä-ji-k?l\   Definition of PATHOLOGICAL 1 : of or relating to pathology 2 : altered or caused by disease; also : indicative of disease 3 : being such to a degree that is extreme, excessive, or markedly abnormal <a pathological liar> <pathological fear> path·o·log·i·cal·ly \-ji-k(?-)l?\ adverb

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 16:43 | 2064911 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Yep, that jumped out at me first thing. $5 billion my ass. They sell CDS, right? What's their exposure there? Fucking insanity. I believe $5 billion like I believe Jamie Dimon is going to drop by my house this evening with an eight ball and a limo full of hookers.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:31 | 2064639 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Jamie, why not call Corzine. Your money is in that new shell company. Hope the Feds arrest your ass on live TV. Drama Bitch!

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:29 | 2064823 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Corzine has raised the level of bullsh%t by an order of magnitude and by other metrics more than 6 standard deviations. Every day Corzine is out shopping for his own space while good men in Chicago bleed is a day Jaime can re-invent the hell he has for your free men and women's spirit.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:34 | 2064641 Jlmadyson
Jlmadyson's picture

The cracks start to surface.


OT: REPORT: 2012 'Most Painful Year at the Pump We've Ever Seen'...



Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:36 | 2064645 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

I recall seeing him rail against government and regulators blaming them for his company's poor performance..


This guy is the dictionary definition of "piece of shit with eyes"

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:47 | 2064659 Rainman
Rainman's picture

None of the banksters or Euro poobahs will dare to mention the ' contagion ' cuss word.....especially Jamie, who will become bald as a cueball when it happens.  

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:17 | 2064692 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

He wants to see the contagion.  He knows it will happen, this is him waxing his board.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 16:29 | 2064890 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

And it will have the added benefit of allowing him to take down BAC for a song, get Merrill as a comp while transferring the Countrywide, WAMU and associated loan portfolios to the fed for a fee.  Ride that Maiden down the Lane Jamie....

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:47 | 2064661 Firing Pin
Firing Pin's picture

He meant to say: "American taxpayers may lose $5 billion based on JP Morgan's exposure to the PIIGS"

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:18 | 2064695 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

This is the Best America produces today...

Steaming crap in a bucket...

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:26 | 2064713 valley chick
valley chick's picture

After listening to an 1 1/2 hour audio about Creature of Jekyll Island and then reading this I think I am going to throw up. 

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:32 | 2064723 TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

Yeah this is what I get to wake up to? Fuck you Dimon. It's going to be nothing compared to what you lose in silver some day. It's called risk remember?

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:40 | 2064739 MarcusLCrassus
MarcusLCrassus's picture

Hey Jamie, you should have invested in gold and silver instead of junk bonds. 

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 19:32 | 2065192 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

He did.  Or at least Blythe did.  Haven't you seen PMs going parabolic?  They never get knocked down in the middle of the night and saddled with margin hike after margin hike.

Moral of the story:  Phyzz, Bitchez!

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:44 | 2064744 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

But, but, the US banks r n so much better shape than the European banks.and,and,and..... Qe to infinity bitchez.... Get the phyz Gold & Silver bitchez........

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:50 | 2064758 q99x2
q99x2's picture

'do all they can to develop common social policies. he said'

"Rothschilds, Bilderbergers"

What do the look like? Where do they live? How do they commute?

They are known to be enemies of the people of Italy, Spain, Greece, USA, France, Germany...the World including the nations of the Middle East, Africa and South America.

I do not think I would be happy living in today's world with names like Rothschilds, Bilderbergers and so on.

If they are going to do something they better do it quick.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 14:50 | 2064760 Madcow
Madcow's picture

either derivative paper is money good - which would mean deflationary collapse and a wipe out of tbtf - or it is not money good - which would mean high (hyper?) inflation as money flees the useless contracts to bid for real assets.


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:19 | 2064802 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Why do I think the part of Ned Beatty will still be played by Europe and not Jamie?

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:22 | 2064809 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 All is well in Euroland. The 600B LTRO ( 3 year @ 100bps), will be doubled( tranched), in march via the ECB Dine and Dash ( Sovereign Bond Brunch)!

The EFSF was drawn down by 1/3  so all is well.  sarc/ heavily on...

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:40 | 2064817 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

                                       Inglorious Bastards 2012 

                                                   Scene 1:

Jamie, ''nice suit, did I just pay for it?'' Remember those words, when you came out of the back door of the Treasury Building? Well, you hell bound antichrist freak, did you really think you were going to escape paying for your own judgment? Your shit is deep into the black hole and you still are bold enough to wear that expensive suit in public. Boy, if you ain't wearing a prison T shirt your suit is as good as a Nazi uniform. However, at this late point, even if you do or don't wise up, from your graven image, and put on some new prison stripes, you are going to need a mark so people know and remember what you are. Inglorious Bastards flash back scene: How about a nice big $ sign for all you boys? You love it so much, and according to your Goldman Sachs buddy, it represents your gods work. The mark is a good comfort for you all now, and it will also be a comfort for you all when you happen to catch a glance of your puss in the prison mirror, that is, if you don't escape the penalty of your own torture and suicide behind those pri$on bars, with your own grave dirt. People look at you all now, in that expensive suit, and they see that $ sign, on that clean skull you all have still, walking free and in charge, well, they know they are still in your prison and they are going to die in this prison and that graven image just will not abide with them.

Cut to opening credits music:

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:49 | 2064855 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I love Inglorious Bastards! Nice link! Thanks!  

  Please forward this piece to " Jamie Dimon(D)"   He will need it next week!

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 15:50 | 2064857 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Maybe some ass will roll.................................maybe

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 16:06 | 2064860 Sir Edge
Sir Edge's picture

Hi Gang,

Isn't this 5 Billion Dollar Loss Dimon is forcasting as a possibility ONLY a direct loss and not the loss from JP Morgan derivative losses (Billions More) Swaps, etc... that would take place if the EU PIIGS go belly up ??

In other words...

Isn't he being really falsely optimistic if EU goes Tits Up on the floor... ??


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 16:49 | 2064919 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Falsely optimistic? No. He's lying his fucking ass off. He knows the truth. $5 billion is a fraction of their potential loss. $5 billion downside limit isn't possible in Jamie's wildest coke-induced fantasies. They (or us rather) are on the hook for hundreds of billions if not into the trillions.

$5 billion my ass.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 16:16 | 2064873 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Well, if an Empire such as Ancient Rome can collapse and fall into the abyss...So can America. It has been quite a ride for many Americans. Since the industrial revolution this country was great and prospered, on innovation and hard work, and mostly honest labor. Over 200 years now. About right for most empires.

Yup, it has been quite a ride. But now, it is over.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 16:54 | 2064928 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I would repostulate those figures. You are on the right brick road though. Roman Empire

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 16:17 | 2064875 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Jamie is mad? Maybe he should have a conference call with the fuckers that he fucked over when MF Global stole the money and JPM coincidentally, even "miraculously" got paid first.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 16:37 | 2064883 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Jamie has to be happy many of his US counterparties have moved much of their OBS exposure under their depository entities [BAC, WFC and others].  This enables the FDIC to replace the monolines in wrapping these exposures in a publicly funded first loss insurance.  I wonder if JPM and other TBTF institutions are now looking at the potential first loss as a shadow Tier I asset?

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 16:23 | 2064888 roy10
roy10's picture

$5B is hardly a disaster for JPM. they can handle it. IF Dimon is telling the truth.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 16:33 | 2064904 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

I just wanted to say hello to you Global Bank Cartel trolls making stupid comments here today.  You are selling your souls for next to nothing.  Have a nice day!

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 16:57 | 2064936 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Blahh Blahh! I'm short commodity currencies to the hilt! Who keeps buying the ( aud) every late asian session ass hat? Look @ the charts from the January open. Hourly charts!!! Ya Idiot!

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 22:38 | 2065523 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

I have to remember this date because that is the single most useless and boring thing anyone has ever told me.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 17:00 | 2064940 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

I really shouldn't say this ... fair trade?
Reese (& ya'll), have a nice day too.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 17:06 | 2064947 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Out with a whimper as usual? Come on Goldilocks?    I'm a " Natural Blonde"!

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 17:16 | 2064965 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 17:01 | 2064944 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

With every rescue package and manipulation to save the likes of JP Morgan, the collateral damage to the economy and society grows.

The warning to all of us is that if a corrupt, sick and satanic regime in North Korea can hold up for so long, imagine what our lot of polticians and bankers can do to hold onto power.

In fact i would not be surprised if North Korea is the elite's poster child of how to break your people and keep them under control.

I can just see the day when the populace will be gathering to wail the loss of Jamie Dimon when he dies at 99 and by which time he will be transformed into a people's hero.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 17:11 | 2064956 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 The currency markets are at a " MAJOR" inflection point. "eur/jpy , eur/aud, gbp/jpy, usd/jpy" Come on people this is so obvious?

   Ferris/ Anyone? The cat is in the bag    Enjoy!

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 17:17 | 2064968 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

"But the EU and euro are solid even if the states will have to be financially responsible and do all they can to develop common social policies,"

COMMON SOCIAL POLICIES ! Forgive me for shouting , but that sounds like resetting some 10 trillion worth of savings back to zero because if all those excessive savings were to be re-evaluated for common social policy reasons , who would be mean enough to complain ? Almost like not mourning the great leader ...

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 17:30 | 2064984 gwar5
gwar5's picture

I would be $6.2 Billion but JPM and J. Dimon got $1.2 Billion from MFG by holding a gun to Corzine's head to steal the client money. 


GoldMoney pointed out that MF Global filed for bankruptcy as a stock broker --not as commodity broker. This act meant that JPM was first in line for any cash or client money that was sitting on the table. Just more evidence it was a set up all the way. Corzine needs to be in jail, afer all his shit taken and he is made to be poor.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 17:43 | 2064999 Monkeyfister
Monkeyfister's picture

Only $5 Billion. Not enough, but it sounds like a fantastic start. Can't wait to see the final tally. Please do give us fair warning to pop the popcorn in time so that we don't miss the Bankster Rain down onto The Street, Nothing will make me happier than to see them lauching themselves out of their office windows.

We expect a live video feed of Jamie Darling's dive to the sidewalk.



Sat, 01/14/2012 - 18:21 | 2065054 Offtheradar
Offtheradar's picture

They should use "enhanced interrogation" on these criminals to get the truth.  Waterboard anyone?

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 19:04 | 2065139 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

It would be good if Jamie goes off and fucks himself

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 20:29 | 2065315 electronpaul
electronpaul's picture

Between JPM, Goldman and MorganStanley, there are probably $Trillions in CDS/derivative exposure to a sovereign defaults these guys are responsible for. They just sat back, collected the premium and laughed knowing that they would be covered by Bush/Obama if the SHTF. It's little wonder why there is such a big stink about letting a piss poor country like Greece default. It would cause a cascade that would wipe out the powers that be without taxpayer/Federal Reserve backstops. And to complete the circle, you can now see why there is an absolute all-out and continuing attack on the one presidential candidate that would just flip these bastards the finger when they came calling for taxpayer bailouts: Ron Paul

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 09:28 | 2066033 roy10
roy10's picture

The Greek fear is completely irrational. Nothing will happen when Greece defaults.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 21:03 | 2065379 Offtheradar
Offtheradar's picture


Sat, 01/14/2012 - 22:14 | 2065490 oncefired
oncefired's picture

Dimon looks like Chuck Hagel - scumbags!

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 23:13 | 2065558 jack stephan
jack stephan's picture

Fire and wind come from the sky, from the gods of the sky. But Crom is your god, Crom and he lives in the earth. Once, giants lived in the Earth, Conan. And in the darkness of chaos, they fooled Crom, and they took from him the enigma of steel. Crom was angered. And the Earth shook. Fire and wind struck down these giants, and they threw their bodies into the waters, but in their rage, the gods forgot the secret of steel and left it on the battlefield. We who found it are just men. Not gods. Not giants. Just men. The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery. You must learn its riddle, Conan. You must learn its discipline. For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts.
[Points to sword]
Conan's Father: This you can trust.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 23:29 | 2065588 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Mr. Dimon won't be pulling his hair out WHEN his bank loses $5 Billion, because Mr. Dimon's pay will be unaffected.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 00:40 | 2065703 Old Poor Richard
Old Poor Richard's picture

No doubt this will be bullish for bank stocks.


Sun, 01/15/2012 - 09:49 | 2066046 roy10
roy10's picture

Everything is bullish.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 12:09 | 2066184 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Nevermind I see someone beat me to the "taxpayers" comment. LOL.

Awe hell, my household share of US debt is already over $500k at this point in time who cares.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 01:01 | 2067954 covert
covert's picture

too piigs to fail?


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