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Keystone Aftermath Arrives: Canada Pledges To Sell Oil To Asia, As US Becomes Source Of "Uncertainty"

Tyler Durden's picture





 

America's loss is China's gain. In the aftermath of the Keystone XL fiasco, which will see not only a number of jobs "uncreated" but a natural source of crude lost, Canada is already planning next steps. Which will benefit Shanghai directly and immediately. As Bloomberg reports, "Prime Minister Stephen Harper, in a telephone call yesterday, told Obama “Canada will continue to work to diversify its energy exports,” according to details provided by Harper’s office. Canadian Natural Resource Minister Joe Oliver said relying less on the U.S. would help strengthen the country’s “financial security.” The “decision by the Obama administration underlines the importance of diversifying and expanding our markets, including the growing Asian market,” Oliver told reporters in Ottawa." Ironically, it is diversifying away from the US, with its ever soaring, politically-predicated uncertainty, that is a source of stability and diversification. But it is not only crude. Wonder why no jobs are being created? Wonder why despite record low mortgage rates there is no bottom in sight for housing? Simple - nobody can plan one month, let alone one year ahead for any US-based venture or business. The political risk is simply too great - whether it is contract law (see GM and Chrysler) or simple solvency (see record high levels of cash hoarded by companies), it is there, and as long as it is there, there will be no hiring, no capex spending, no growth, and no real improvement in the economy, the real economy, not that defined by where the Russell 2000 closes on any given day.

More from the Keystone XL aftermath:

Harper “expressed his profound disappointment with the news,” according to the statement, which added that Obama told Harper the rejection was not based on the project’s merit and that the company is free to re-apply.

 

Canada this month began hearings on a proposed pipeline by Enbridge Inc. to move crude from Alberta’s oil sands to British Columbia’s coast, where it could be shipped to Asian markets.

 

Environmentalists and Canadian opposition lawmakers welcomed the Obama administration’s decision. Megan Leslie, a lawmaker for the opposition New Democratic Party, said the Keystone pipeline project was harmful to Canada’s energy security.

 

“What I’m opposed to is continuing the unchecked expansion of the oil sands,” Leslie said by telephone.

 

Enbridge (ENB)’s pipeline may now become the new flashpoint between Harper and the opposition. Harper has said building the capacity to sell the country’s oil to Asian markets is in the national interest, and the government will review regulatory- approval rules for new energy projects so they can be done more quickly. Harper has also said he will look more closely into complaints that “foreign money” is being used to overload the regulatory process.

Then there are those who have pointed out that in recent years the equity risk premium has soared to multi-year highs. There is a reason for that. It is called: America.

Yesterday’s rejection “certainly introduces new uncertainties into the economic relationship,” said David Pumphrey, deputy director of the energy and national security program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. “This is a cornerstone of economic development for the country.”

And as pertains to this story, it is a good thing that the American Strategic Petroleum Reserve is safe and untapped for every eventuality. Oh wait...

 


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Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:21 | Link to Comment BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

Way To Go, Mr. Bummah ...

 

AND China dances circles around you, while you continue the US bullshit politiking ...

 

AND keep telling the USa Sheeple that GOLD is Toxic, While Asians Accumulate daily, and build their personal wealth.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:28 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Well Oil is toxic.

Gold is just not we think it is.

ori

/shattering-midass-curse-gold-de-spell-ed/

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:29 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Every single aspect of this government corrupted economy is complete bullshit.

LOOK THE FUCK AROUND.  We have 10 year bond yields south of 2%.  SOUTH OF 2%!!!  This says there is no significant economic activity.  In the absence of vibrant economic activity, oil consumption falls.

The fucking price of oil is $100.  With falling consumption it is $100.

No, it's not some conspiracy of oil companies, morons.  Russia doesn't give a shit what Exxon wants; Russia is the largest producer in the world.  KSA doesn't work for or cooperate with Exxon, or Chevron, or Conoco or Occidental Petroleum.  Those Companies Don't Control Oil.  Russia and KSA do.  There's no conspiracy because they HATE Exxon and anything American.

Yet the price is $100.  Add new customers for Suncor's oil sands output and its price is going up.  That's 2 mbpd of US imports the price of which is going up.  That's about 1/6th of imported oil about to get a price jack.

Way to go Obama, you moron.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:39 | Link to Comment Corn1945
Corn1945's picture

State-owned oil companies control the overwhelming majority of the world's oil. Big Oil controls around 6%.

People who blame oil companies for the price are badly misinformed.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:43 | Link to Comment economics1996
economics1996's picture

This will not affect the world oil price significantly, some more transportation cost to China, but it does mean our US dollars leave North America.  

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:56 | Link to Comment Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

For fuck's sake. Everyone in the oil business loves high prices. Companies, cuntries, drillers, shippers, processors. COmpanies get richer, consumers get poorer. ONly the station is miffed and left out of the loop, hoping to sell cola, slurpees and corndogs.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:10 | Link to Comment economics1996
economics1996's picture

Every supplier wants higher prices, so what is your point?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:35 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

Obummer didn't want the Republicans to take credit for helping create 40,000 jobs the pipeline would have created.

That's the bottom line.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 21:25 | Link to Comment covsire
covsire's picture

reminds me of a jealous boyfriend about to murder his recent ex-girlfriend:  "IF I CAN'T HAVE YOU, NOBODY WILL!" - Psycho: STAB STAB STAB.  Is that what Obama's narcissism has reduced him to, a psycho in the White House?

Fri, 01/20/2012 - 05:40 | Link to Comment Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Thats why he's in the white house and you're sitting on your pasty fat ass in mums basement eating her food and hogging her bandwith.

There are those that act and those who watch.

There are those that lead and those who follow.

You are not an actor or a leader, you dont have the balls.

 

Fri, 01/20/2012 - 05:45 | Link to Comment Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

If only you had referenced some data or info to prove your silly hyperbole, then people might have taken your comment seriously.

Better luck next time:-)

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 19:50 | Link to Comment Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Corn1945, I keep asking you, where did you swipe that Avatar?

The real owner want it back ...

.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:28 | Link to Comment Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

So let me get this straight - 1st Huesein Obama flushes $500-million tax payer dollars into unproven solar technology. 2nd - Gas prices have tripled since he was sworn in. 3rd - Now he rejects a pipeline from Canada, not Iran, Canada.... then blames it on the Republicans.

I really can not believe the American people were dumb enough to elect this fraud.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:30 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

There are no elections. only simulations of them.

There are no leaders, only pleaders.

There are no people, only Sleeple.

This is the Matrix.

ori

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:38 | Link to Comment camaro68ss
camaro68ss's picture

Obama is a fucking dick head, hes drowneding this country! NDAA cops kicks down my door in 3...2....1

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:47 | Link to Comment GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

Obama's dark side?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:40 | Link to Comment economics1996
economics1996's picture

Why will Obama get re-elected?

White 64.86% - Vote Democrat 46% of the time-Average IQ-100

Hispanic 15.1%-Vote Democrat 70% of the time-Average IQ 93

black 12.85%, - Vote Democrat 97% of the time-Average IQ 85

Asian 4.43%,-Vote Democrat 62% of the time-Average IQ 101

Amerindian and Alaska native 0.97%,

native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.18%,

two or more races 1.61% (July 2007 estimate) 

Anyone wondering why we do not have national borders?  

Anyone wonder why we do not require a photo ID to vote?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:46 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

eh? I must be too foreign for this arcane detail...

you don't need a photo ID to vote? seriously? how do you do it then, like in Africa with the ink on your thumb?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:57 | Link to Comment Elwood P Suggins
Elwood P Suggins's picture

Hell in some places you don't even have to be alive to vote!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 17:25 | Link to Comment gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Washington state governor thanks all the dead voters for the thinnest of victories.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:58 | Link to Comment economics1996
economics1996's picture

No you just walk up, tell them your name, get a ballot, and vote.

Our elections are bull shit banana republic. 

http://usa-wethepeople.com/2012/01/ahh-dont-worry-you-can-vote-without-id-even-if-your-dead-in-nh/

Look for yourself.  Complete bull shit.


Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:26 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Ghordius

you don't need a photo ID to vote? seriously?

Hell no son, you do not even have to be a citizen, here even the DEAD vote.

(I am not KIDDING,on EITHER call).

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:19 | Link to Comment economics1996
economics1996's picture

I forgot, Yids 78% Democrat.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:00 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

There's a good reason why he's against the pipeline.
If he approves the tar sands import, oil will never go down because tar sand oil is expensive.
If he nukes Iran or Venezuela he'll bring the price down.... At least he hopes to... Somewhere in his third or fourth or fifth term... Or even sixth after changing a few more laws and instateing the monarchy of America.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:14 | Link to Comment BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Tar sands oil production is cheaper than you would think with the new technologies.  BP a couple of years ago said their Tar Sands operation was their most profitable site.  Think about the costs now in deep sea drilling. Think about the costs of paying off some third world dictator government.   Also think about this: The Norweigeans are now in the Tar Sands and they are claiming 80% extraction rates. 80% makes the Tar sands contain about 1.4 trillion barrels of oil. In case anyone does not know they cover an area the size of England!!!  Another fact: The tar Sands are currently producing THE SAME green house gases as the tiny state of Wisconsin.

"Electricity plants powered by coal in the U.S. generate almost 40 times more greenhouse-gas emissions than Canada's oil sands (the coal-fired electricity plants in the State of Wisconsin alone produce the equivalent of the entire GHG emissions of the oil sands."

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 20:43 | Link to Comment buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

1.4 trillion barrels of recoverable oil? But that's 90,000 days worth at current US consumption rates, or about 250 years. I'd say you're either off, or the peak oilers are missing something.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 20:54 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Just what are we missing?

There is ~1 Trillion known to exist and likely about 300 billion to be found...No arguement...

Do you think that there is a difference between the original wells in Ghawar's Super-K zones that could give 18,000 barrels per day from a vertical well at ~8000' and 6 miles of horizontal fracked wells giving 800 bpd falling to 250 bpd after a year?

Have you considered that the single largest developed reserve in the world, the Athabasca Tar Sands, will be all but impossible to get over 5 mm bpd (current production takes 25% of canadian gas production) or about the equivalent of Ghawar in its heyday...

It is about flow rates, not reserves....

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 21:33 | Link to Comment dubbleoj
dubbleoj's picture

Obama must have taught you how to spell as well!~~

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:33 | Link to Comment Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

You would almost think he was trying to subvert the system on purpose.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:45 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

I wonder how long it will take before they invade Canada?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:57 | Link to Comment Q.E.easy
Q.E.easy's picture

Because that worked out so well for them the last time.

Didn't they have to build a shiny new whitehouse after?

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:50 | Link to Comment BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

The multiple US invasions of Canada were actually on British North America since Canada wasn't a country then. So really, it was the British who burned down the Whitehouse (that wasn't white before if I am not mistaken).

When they figured out how much easier it is just to coerce the officials of a country, I think the military invasion method stopped being the most efficient option. Perhaps they saw how easily the British influenced India and China in the 19th century and realized it was an excellent low cost model for hegemony.

Besides, attacking cold expanses of sparsely populated geography doesn't have a good track record for success, ask Hitler and Napoleon.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:36 | Link to Comment Q.E.easy
Q.E.easy's picture

At the time we had Upper Canada and Lower Canada, sure we were under British control but technically.... we still are.

Our wonderful Governor-General has veto power (that they will never use, but is there anyways) to vote down any law put forward. 

I'm sticking with Canadians burnt it down. More fun to picture a bunch of beer swilling farmers putting the torch to em, and since when has this world ever been tied to inconvienient things like 'facts'?

 

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:26 | Link to Comment mudduck
mudduck's picture

Yup. And I think our Canadian military still has those 1812 era flintlocks in service in some regiments, as well as the modern Lee-Enfield bolt action WW2 era 303s, flash-lights for night vision and garbage can lids for body armor. Combine that kind of firepower with the military genius of Valerie-Stephan Harper unt vee r invincible I tell yous.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:17 | Link to Comment smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

shouldn't take long ...south park has already shown how to proceed

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:39 | Link to Comment James-Morrison
James-Morrison's picture

I wonder how long before China sends troops to Canada to protect their oil from American intervention?

WWIII might start in our own backyard.  

Canadians are singing a new tune:

Obama-na, we thumb our nose at thee,

We'll, send our oil across the sea,

Obama-na, we thumb our nose at thee,

Obama-na, we thumb our nose at thee.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 17:32 | Link to Comment gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

I can easily see China's new aircraft carrier visiting the Port of Vancouver, ....eh?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:02 | Link to Comment economics1996
economics1996's picture

Someday people will realize all government does is fuck people over.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:37 | Link to Comment Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

"You would almost think he was trying to subvert the system on purpose"

Yep it does. When I rode with this lawyer in the morning and scratch the surface on this clusterfuck, he was as clueless as the congressman in nov. Lawyers are morons running the government and finance charmers run the corporate world. I think the payoff and continued ignorance predicts the future. Cloudy skies should be forecasted and prepared for.

Prepare for any emergency, as best you can and stock up on beer or drink some, prepare great meals and get back to zero hedge.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:34 | Link to Comment goodrich4bk
goodrich4bk's picture

Yeah, we'd still have $30 a barrel oil if only McCain was President...

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:46 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Please tell me that you forgot the sarc flag..

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:51 | Link to Comment BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

I think that brown bag icon is really the unknown comic.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:43 | Link to Comment JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Why buy oil from Canada when you can simply liberate it from troublesome Middle Eastern countries that refuse to install the correct proportion of goldmansachs alumni?

No-brainer, really!

 

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:49 | Link to Comment Kyle Reese
Kyle Reese's picture

You forgot his food cost inflating support for corn based fuel additive. He is not an idiot he is The Idiot.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:57 | Link to Comment Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

And another thing... Obama does something as damaging as this, but all we here about all day long is who Newt stuck his dick in.

Newt needs to bail out now so the oxygen can be placed on the proper subject... which is... our current President is bad for America and must be defeated!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:28 | Link to Comment PulpCutter
PulpCutter's picture

Ah, don't look now but Newt's ahead in the two latest polls from SC.  Maybe it's the job cremator who needs to drop out.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 17:34 | Link to Comment gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Say what...?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:27 | Link to Comment PulpCutter
PulpCutter's picture

Ah, don't look now but Newt's ahead in the two latest polls from SC.  Maybe it's the job cremator who needs to drop out.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:50 | Link to Comment Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

Obama isn't running in the Republican primary.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:59 | Link to Comment Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

+lulz

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:01 | Link to Comment roygbiv
roygbiv's picture

Yah, but you forget that for some reason Zero Hedge has recently turned into the Drudgereport (but with added comments!)

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:59 | Link to Comment roygbiv
roygbiv's picture

And another thing... Newt does something as damaging as this (tying up the country with impeachment proceedings), but all we here about all day long is who Clinton stuck his dick in.

 

There - fixed it for you.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:03 | Link to Comment sabra1
sabra1's picture

remember his pledge for more clean coal plants? instead he's closed conventional coal plants!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:16 | Link to Comment Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Bush began the loan guarantees to Solyndra in 2007.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:26 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Lord Koos,

Bush began the loan guarantees to Solyndra in 2007.

I guess they got kickbacks also??, along with the 4 or 5 others Obama has funded with our tax dollars, some not even in the US?.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:52 | Link to Comment Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

Bush did it. Bush did it. Everyone who disagrees with anything is a racist.

This is all we ever hear from you turds. You guys really need to find another defense.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:47 | Link to Comment monoloco
monoloco's picture

A couple of points: The Canadian oil will be exported whether it goes through the US or not. The Canadians are reeking absolute environmental havoc in Northern Alberta, the extraction consumes enormous amounts of energy and water, the only source of energy more ridiculous is ethanol production. 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 21:47 | Link to Comment Prairie Fire
Prairie Fire's picture

Fucking idiot moron.

I live in Alberta. I've seen Fort Mac before and after, from start up to where it's at today with the entire world knocking on our door to get into these fields. Absolute environmental havoc hey? Go fuck yourself you greenpissing, communist mouthbreathing occupy scumfuck. When was the last time you fished for trout on the Athabasca river? I was there last summer.

What part of Canada are you in? I have a funny feeling you're another typical easterner, more than happy to take the equilization payments that Alberta and Saskatchewan pay out to you--and then biting the hand that feeds you.

What do you think keeps Ontario and Quebec operating? Who (or better, what) pays for every single promise that the Canadian government makes--is it the bloated civil service? Unionized auto manufacturing? Where the fuck do you think all that capital comes from.

Take the handouts we Albertans give you and SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Fri, 01/20/2012 - 00:04 | Link to Comment monoloco
monoloco's picture

If you Canaliens want to export your fucking dirty oil why don't you run a pipeline to Vancouver? We don't need to be a party to your environmental disaster for a few short term jobs.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 21:13 | Link to Comment NumNutt
NumNutt's picture

He got into that office for one reason and one reason only, and it had nothing to do with his job experience.. Draw you own conclusions.  man Nov 5 2012 cannot get here soon enough.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:34 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Not that I would ever support Obama on anything because he is a tool, but why do so many here who disbelieve everything the government and big oil say in other contexts so readily agree that this pipeline a good deal for the American or Canadian people because government and big oil say so?  The U.S. EXPORTS much of its OWN oil.    And the idea that the U.S. economy is going down the tubes because of too much regulation is just laughable.  The problem is that we've outsourced our industrial base and the oligarchs have raped our treasury.  And did anyone notice that our oil based economy requires trillions in military spending to keep the Middle East under our domain?  But okay.  Let's regulate even less and give the oligarchs even more and continue to make oil our primary source of energy and then everything will be hunky dory.  We just need more of the same.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:39 | Link to Comment Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Middle East Oil or Canadian Oil?

Pick your car and pick your lane. 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:49 | Link to Comment Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

Here is a news flash for you - when a viable alternative to oil is available to the free market - it will flourish - until then we got to run this economy on the best possible proven energy source.

And your argument about having a huge military to secure the oil in the ME is a great reason to by from the Canucks. They don't hate us. They FUCKING LOVE US!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:17 | Link to Comment Silver Pullet
Silver Pullet's picture

Well, we don't hate you...

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:58 | Link to Comment BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

I'll admit I laughed when I read this, but I like the individuals I meet in the US generally about as much as the fellow Canadians I meet, it's their system I'm not in love with.

Try going to Cuba where you know at the resort NONE of the jackass ignorant guys at the pool are Americans and you lose that comforting assurance to yourself that any fat loudmouth you see is from the US ... but is a Canadian. That humbled me a little.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:35 | Link to Comment ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

BP:

- Don't admit you've been to an all-inclusive in Cuba on ZH! 

- The fat loudmouths are generally Quebecois trailer trash

- Canadians are just as ignorant of the US as Americans are of Canada. 

- Because we fortunately avoided the GFC, Canadians now have an oh-so-superior attitude compared to the US. This extends to saying things like "Americans are stupid" from their iPhone on Facebook. Or from their Intel-powered Dell laptop on Twitter.

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:34 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Here is a newsflash for you...

There is no viable liquid alternative to oil....

For shits and giggles, try answering this:

if all the NG produced by the US could be converted into oil on a BTU basis, would the US still be a net importer or exporter of oil and roughly at what level?? 

(Putting aside for now the fact that the US is still an net importer of NG)

Learn some chemistry and thermodynamics and get back to us....

 

BTW, Canadians don't love the US, they tolerate it and that tolerance is wearing out....

Edit:

And since you have a dildo up your ass about Solyndra, where were you when this was going on?? I did not hear a word. Fuckin' hypocrite...

Posted earlier:

Do you remember mandated cellulosic ethanol targets under GWB? Where was the outrage when the companies backed by the Feds then went tits up? Hell, at least solar panels are a demonstrated technology....

http://www.ajc.com/business/plant-closure-bursts-ga-838588.html

U.S. Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman, who steered a $76 million federal grant to Range, said that “by relying on American ingenuity and on American farmers for fuel, we will enhance our nation’s energy and economic security.”

 

The U.S. Department of Agriculture followed up with an $80 million loan guarantee. Georgia officials pledged $6.2 million. Treutlen County, one of the state’s poorest, offered 20 years worth of tax abatements and 97 acres in its industrial park.

 

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:57 | Link to Comment Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

I certainly agree there is huge potential in Natural Gas and it will most likely be the fuel that America is using in 2050. In the mean time, as long as anyone is willing to sell us oil for paper... I laugh every time I type that... let's stick with that program.

When that trade dynamic halts... then we will have a lot of nat gas to drive or economy.

There... I just removed the dildo from my ass and stuck it in your wife's mouth. Be sure to kiss her good night for me.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:03 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

As I thought, you are too fucking ignorant to figure out that NG ain't gonna save anyone... I thought I would give you a clue as to how to figure that out....

You do know what a BTU is?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:48 | Link to Comment Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

Who died and made you Stephen Hawking?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:57 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I am sorry if you were born an ignorant fool and have chosen to remain one...

Why don't you take some time and do some independent research on the fossil fuel paradigm...I have only been studying it and learning for years....

Learn the difference between a barrel of NGL, Tapis, Brent and WTI, what EROEI means, the difference between Kerogen, bitumen and crude.... What wet gas, MRC wells, water cuts, permeability, porosity, anticline mean... 

It is after all. what makes the world go round, so to speak....

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:55 | Link to Comment Dr.Vannostrand
Dr.Vannostrand's picture

Cool story bro.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:19 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Chief KnocAHoma:  "Here is a news flash for you - when a viable alternative to oil is available to the free market - it will flourish - until then we got to run this economy on the best possible proven energy source."

And here is a news flash for you. If you included in the price of each gallon of gasoline the cost of all the wars and aircraft carriers waiting for wars that are needed to keep the oil flowing, burning hundred dollar bills would suddenly become economically viable and everyone would start buying cars that run on wadded up hundred dollar bills.  So long as the public is too fucking stupid to realize the true cost of each gallon, oil will seem relatively cheaper than every other alternative and will continue to rule.  The oligarchs just love the fact that most people -- like you -- fail to account for the true cost of the energy they consume and defend the oligarchs and their rigged system where they get to keep the profits and we get to pay for the military.  

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:51 | Link to Comment Evil Bugeyes
Evil Bugeyes's picture

Since Canadian oil doesn't require any aircraft carriers and US blood, it is actually much cheaper than Middle Eastern oil.

Flakmeister is a neocon sock puppet.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:00 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

And you are a fool....

I'd love to stick around and beat your head in with a tire iron (metaphorically speaking) but I have an appointment...

Why don't you write a treatise on the Bakken and when I get back, I'll critique it, 'kay?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:48 | Link to Comment Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

You are SO superior!

What's wrong? Why all the anger and condescesion? Cann't get it up anymore?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:50 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Any oil executive could no doubt fill pages with useless data points about the need to run the world on oil and any of them could drop a shitload of oil jargon and none of it would make me believe a fucking word they say.  Tobacco companies published studies for decades that cigarettes cause no harm to humans and are not addictive.  It was all a lie, but 4 out of 5 doctors still recommended Camels.  The fool is anyone who believes the propaganda of these fuckers whose entire existence requires the status quo.   We should wean ourselves from the black gold not because it is easy, but because it is hard.  Or we could just maintain the status quo.   

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 20:57 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Have we ever discussed the Export Land Model?

Thats the one I use to scare the children at night after the lights are out...

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 21:47 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Really?  Did you make it to your narcissist anonymous class on time? 

Fri, 01/20/2012 - 09:51 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Its funny... when someone who actually has spent time learning stuff and has been trying to steer the wayward masses at ZH for nigh on two years about our oil situation calls people out, it's narcissism.... But when someone here spouts off some dubious bullshit or readily falsifiable crap, its BAU....

Go figger...

Has it ever occured to you that these people that think Peak Oil is a nothing burger need the equivalent of being hit over the head to see anything...

Its not arrogance when you are right, if someone is a poster boy for DK, they deserve to have their self esteem shredded when they spout nonsense....Maybe, just maybe, it will teach them not to have such strong opionions about stuff they know nothing about..

And you might agree that asshats acting on the basis of false knowledge is at the root of a lot of our problems,....

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 21:51 | Link to Comment Prairie Fire
Prairie Fire's picture

You're correct that buying our oil doesn't require an aircraft carrier.

But you're wrong about Flak--he's absolutley correct when he says flow rates are the dilemma.

Open your fucking ears jackass.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:08 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Did you happen to notice the contemporaneous article on ZH about the aircraft carriers near Iran?   Do you remember the Iraq war?  Do you remember Libya?  Do you recall how many of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudia Arabia and how that didn't fucking matter because they are our BFF?  What the fuck do you mean that we don't need aircraft carriers for our oil?  Open your fucking eyes, assclown.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:13 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Here's ultra-liberal Forbes on a related subject:

"HOUSTON -- This month Iraq will finalize contracts with the likes of ExxonMobilRoyal Dutch Shell and BP to develop some of its biggest oil fields. These giants are among the world's last remaining pockets of so-called "easy oil." They don't require ultradeep drilling or innovative production techniques, just the application of Big Oil know-how. No wonder the oil companies agreed to develop Iraq's fields without even getting an ownership stake in the fields and collecting as little as $1.15 per barrel recovered.

Given the size of Iraq's undeveloped giants there are no technical reasons why within 10 years the country can't supplant both Iran and Russia to become the world's No. 2 oil producer after Saudi Arabia. No wonder Iraq holds three of the top 10 fields of the future."

No aircraft carriers needed?  

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:21 | Link to Comment Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

The pipeline isn't to bring oil to US consumers -- it's to bring it to a port refinery so that it can be shipped elsewhere.  Wake up people.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:26 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Your comment does not compute.  It conflicts with the oil company propaganda that pipeline good, no pipeline bad.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:51 | Link to Comment Arcturus
Arcturus's picture

The US does export much of its own oil. Why? Why did Obama just flush away so many potential jobs not only building and maintaining the pipeline but also jobs in refineries and workers in the port cities?

The results of Obama's decisions if done by another nation would be considered an act of war.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:19 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Beg pardon????

The US NET imports are roughly 9 mmbpd.... that is roughly the equivalent of all Canadian, Mexican, Iraqi and Irani oil production combined....

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:33 | Link to Comment Arcturus
Arcturus's picture

The U.S. exported more oil-based fuels than it imported in the first nine months of this year, making it likely that 2011 will be the first time since 1949 that the nation is a net exporter of such goods, primarily diesel.

That's not all. The U.S. has reversed another decades-long trend. It began producing more crude oil in 2008 than the year before and accelerated that upswing 3% in the first nine months of this year compared with the same period in 2010. That production has helped reduce U.S. imports of crude oil by about 10% since 2006.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/story/2011-12-16/us-oil-...

 

Data released last week by the U.S. Energy Information Administration shows that the U.S. sent abroad 753.4 million barrels of gasoline, diesel and other oil-based fuels in the first nine months of 2011, while taking in only 689.4 million barrels.

 http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/05/us-on-pace-to-become-net-fuel-exporter/#ixzz1jvjhfN44
Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:44 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Umm... ok, take another  hit off the crack pipe...

Do you understand that the US is a net importer of crude oil?

It imports on a net basis, about ~9 million barrels of crude per day. From your figures, it has net exports of 0.23 million barrels a day of refined products. In otherwords, 2.6% of the total feedstock imported....

Breaking down the imports, Do you think that imports are down because production is up or that demand has dropped?

Turns out that 84% of the drop in imports is due to a drop in demand...

Relative to its peak oil production in ~1970, where does the US stand in relative terms? Do you know?

Its about 50%.... yep, its a fucking Renaissance in the Oil patch....

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:28 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Your inability to understand the basic point is astounding.  The U.S. imports more oil and gas than it exports, but the fact that it exports at all is the point.  The oil/gas go wherever the highest bidder is found and wherever the most profit can be made.  Oil tankers hang out off ports waiting for the price to reach the right point. Gas is burned off at the platform.  The Canada to U.S. pipeline is a giant red herring designed for suckers like you.  Bravo for falling hook, line and sinker.  Now please entertain us all with some more oil-related jargon from your Google searches.

Fri, 01/20/2012 - 10:08 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Buddy.... you are really missing the boat on this one, in fact, I don't think you have a clue about where I really stand on things....

Why don't you go bait the RP supporters and leave oil to the experts...

Where have I ever said that Keystone XL should go through? So quit with the strawmen...

And no shit, it goes to the highest bidder, its funny how that pisses of a number of "free marketers" that live in Red states that have oil.... they would like some of that gubbmint subsidy cheese...

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:21 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

Why did Obama just flush away so many potential jobs not only building and maintaining the pipeline but also jobs in refineries and workers in the port cities?

He didn't.  Yet.

The President was required to make a choice on the project within a short period of time by the legislation that extended the workplace deductions through the Christmas recess.  He told the Canadian organization involved that he did not have enough time to properly evaluate the project by that deadline.  He asked the Canadian organization to resubmit their proposal and he would give it the proper attention it required.  The organization responded that they would resubmit their proposal.

This deal is way far from dead.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:56 | Link to Comment Kyle Reese
Kyle Reese's picture

I've never heard of any major leaks from the Alaska pipeline made many years ago. Why so much concern now? I don't get it. Slot different that drilling miles under the Ocean. Pipelines over land are elementary in comparison. Does Obama have so little confidence in American engineering but it's ok for him to occasionally launch a drone strike and miss to kill some civilians.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:26 | Link to Comment Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

Just because you haven't heard about a leak doesn't mean that there wasn't a leak.

there was the Prudhoe Bay spill in 2006 that spilled something like 250k to 300k barrels or so.  (done by BP).  For comparison, Exxon Valdez was about 250k-750k barrels.  perhaps you don't call that major, but the people there did.

then last year there was a minor spill (again by BP) while they were still on probation.

not to forget that there was the minor Yellowstone River  spill (only like 1,000 barrels or so).

Now go look at where the proposed pipe goes.  Right through one of the largest freshwater sources in the world.  (Ogalalla aquifer).

what's more important.  Oil, or potable water?

How many barrels of oil do you think is acceptable in your drinking water?  Just wondering.

is there really an absoulte hurry to ram a pipeline that will carry the worst of the worst oil (which means the pipeline will be more likely to burst than a regular pipeline), through important ecological areas? 

Of course, the Koch brother want this pipeline really badly... and Keystone has had no problem trying to eminent domain tons of people for their precious pipeline.

I'm not for or against Keystone but I am against the silliness to say that our Jobs problem is because Keystone might not happen exactly as the Koch brothers want.

Or do you all trust them?  they did such a bang up job with the BP gulf oil spill and Exxon Valdez and Prudhoe bay. 

ZH, champion of the disenfranchised and marginalized billionaire oil tycoons, defender against people who in their sense of evil might want their water source free of an oil pipeline.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:53 | Link to Comment SystemsGuy
SystemsGuy's picture

Hmm...,

Well said. Additional points to consider - the oil pipeline would have "added" those jobs for the time it would take to build the pipeline, then these would be gone (and it's debatable whether the numbers being thrown around were anywhere close to being accurate). Nor are the tar sands inexhaustable - there were questions about whether the tar sands would be sustaining ten years from now (ESPECIALLY if oil prices drop dramatically, as there are some indications they might).

The reality was that this was a bad project, poorly studied, likely to have significant negative economic and environmental consequences, all for an oil supply of questionable value. 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:45 | Link to Comment Kyle Reese
Kyle Reese's picture

Maybe you missed the fact that I said " pipeline leaks"

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 17:24 | Link to Comment monoloco
monoloco's picture

Why do so many people seem to think that the use of eminent domain to build a pipeline so that oil companies can make a profit exporting N. American oil overseas is a good idea?  I thought that zerohedgers were more of a libertarian crowd than that.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:00 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Well said LetThemEatRand! Too many people refuse to ask the hard questions. They buy what big oil serves up without question as if big oil has our interests at heart. You put your finger on many of the real problems America faces.

I laugh at people who say the Green Movement in America is too powerful.

Ha! What a joke. Look at mountain top coal mining, look at oil and gas fracking, look at sulfide mining. Just a few examples where industry is totally free to do as they please. Yet they still complain they are over regulated. Look at the Gulf Oil spill, the deep water drilling is all back going on again, so where is all this terrible regulation?

I believe some energy interests with great power killed this pipeline deal [which pipeline I have no problems with]. I only need to nail down who and why. Somebody doesn't like Tar Sands oil and they are IN the ENERGY business.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:10 | Link to Comment Kyle Reese
Kyle Reese's picture

I would think moving product by pipeline is much safer and evironmentally friendly than all the trucks driving around full of oil.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:02 | Link to Comment Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

it is.  it's also far more environmentally friendly than running the fleet of soot spewing bunker fuel burning tankers it's going to take to get all of that canadian crude to asia.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 17:02 | Link to Comment Kyle Reese
Kyle Reese's picture

Maybe they should do environmental impact studies before they decide to shoot toxic exlosives at terrorists if they care so much about the environment.  I think this is all political.  Obama should have countered with some kind of alternative route.  I dont get his BS.  

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:12 | Link to Comment malek
malek's picture

Let's regulate more, the bureaucrats will fix it for us, has worked countless times before! I hope nobody needs a sarc flag here.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:56 | Link to Comment moondog
moondog's picture

Regulations only work if the regulators enforce them.The US is run by corrupt mobsters and crooks who move between the public and private sector (see Goldman Sachs, Haliburton et al.). We need to get rid of corruption before we add any more regulations. That said, bring back Glass Steagall!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:46 | Link to Comment Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

Wow, you can't make this stuff up! Way to go Obama!

 

ATL

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:16 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

The USA needs to liberate that oil from the oppressive Canadian government.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:16 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Didn't the U.S. and Canada agree to work together on crowd control in both countries recently, or something to that effect?  Links anyone?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:47 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

...underlines the importance of diversifying and expanding our markets, including the growing Asian market.”

That sounds familiar. 

 

That looks familiar.

The kiss of death.

 

...we begin bombing in five minutes.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:50 | Link to Comment Agent P
Agent P's picture

Say what you will about the man, but that Gaddafi was one snappy dresser!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:04 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Have you forgotten?  Before he became the President of the United States of America, Barack Hussein Obama II was a real fashion plate, too...

http://www.smh.com.au/news/us-election/obama-fires-up-over-africa-photo/2008/02/26/1203788347007.html

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:05 | Link to Comment Agent P
Agent P's picture

Bed sheet wearin', pimp cane totin', bad ass mutha fucka!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:07 | Link to Comment kralizec
kralizec's picture

Islamists always dress up their young boys before initiating them into the Thursday Night Club.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:45 | Link to Comment Iwanttoknow
Iwanttoknow's picture

Your depth of knowledge and sagacity overwhelms me.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:19 | Link to Comment Waffen
Waffen's picture

It was n agreement that Mexican and Canadian police can be used in the us and the us in theirs.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:44 | Link to Comment scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

Can't wait to see the live feed of mexican cops bashing the heads in of unemployed x-military american youth at some occuypied site.. how long will it be before we see that ?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:20 | Link to Comment RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

Depends on whether it's work Americans "just won't do"

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:20 | Link to Comment JohnFrodo
JohnFrodo's picture

True, crowd control is now mutual, if Americans riot send in the Canuks and vice versa.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:58 | Link to Comment EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

"Canada, U.S. agree to use each other’s troops in civil emergencies"

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=403d90d6-7a61-41ac-8cef-...

Canada Command
National Defence and the Canadian Forces website
http://www.canadacom.forces.gc.ca/docs/pdf/cap_e.pdf

If you don't want to open the PDF

http://youtu.be/xPq3DyFltOE

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:02 | Link to Comment EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

4 February 2011

"Beyond the Border: a shared vision for perimeter security and economic competitiveness"

http://www.borderactionplan-plandactionfrontalier.gc.ca/psec-scep/declar...

Full circle jerk:

NORAD, USNORTHCOM release Vision 2020

http://www.northcom.mil/news/2007/101207.html

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:45 | Link to Comment GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

I heard there be WMD in Canada.

 

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:51 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

Yes, cartons of quarts (giant beer versus tiny beer) of Labatts 50 (made from left over urinal pucks in legions) will be deployed.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:09 | Link to Comment Elwood P Suggins
Elwood P Suggins's picture

Hockey pucks?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:59 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

2) The Candadian government allows some Canadians to legally use marijuana. The marijuana is bought with money which becomes drug money. Terrorists fund themselves with drug money. The US is at war with terrorism.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:47 | Link to Comment ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

There's a Q in Iraq.

There's also a Q in al-Qaeda.

Dammit there's a Q in Queen!

Those Canadians are ruled by a Queen!

Time to go after those Canadians and the surviving members of Queen.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:10 | Link to Comment Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

fuu - you should get stoned and read your own post. I'll bet it is very funny when you are baked.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:53 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

Drugs are bad, m'kay?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:16 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

All those FEMA camps starting to make sense to anyone else yet?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:17 | Link to Comment Out9922
Out9922's picture

I was thinking we were going to go first.  Now, I think its the EBT peepz.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NzspsovNvII

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:16 | Link to Comment tim73
tim73's picture

Et tu, Canada?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:17 | Link to Comment Waffen
Waffen's picture

Well, like George Soros said, China will be the engine of the global economy. Americas future is over, Soros told us in 2008.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:17 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

America has the guns, but China has the numbers?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:22 | Link to Comment freakscene
freakscene's picture

The Chinese couldn't invent their way out of a wet paper bag.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:28 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I guess that depends if you have them all "in the bag" to begin with.  Are you at all familiar with the breeding patterns of rats, rabbits, or cockroaches?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:48 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

More than that, are you familiar with Paper and Gunpowder?

ori

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:43 | Link to Comment ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

You're thinking paper money ORI - paper was invented by the Egyptians well before the Chinese. Also, don't forget printing.

Also, add pasta to that list ORI.  

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:18 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Called this one as soon as Obummer said NO.

Why?, does this have to go to Asia, even if Odmmma did not allow the pipeline?.

Is CANADA flexing it's muscles aginst the GREAT one?.

That can lead to nasty repercussions.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:31 | Link to Comment Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

Sure they have the numbers. Try getting them North America with out us noticing or sinking them.

Their numbers are actually their problem. They all seem to want to eat for some reason.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:53 | Link to Comment Arcturus
Arcturus's picture

About 6 EMP's would sink us ASAP.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:55 | Link to Comment Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

They could sneak in on freighter ships, unloading at every port, and swarm us like ants before you could blink.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:17 | Link to Comment Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

Ooooo ... the big bad boogey man.

China is not an offensive nation. Rarely do they attack, and right now they are more concerned with holding their country together and feeding the populus.

Their economy is on a sugar high, and they are very friendly too and even dependant on the US. Granted the Red Bastards from Russia are courting them, but as long as we control the seas, China will need us. Without the US Navy, you don't trade by the seas.

They don't want war with us. Now India, Japan? That would be a much more likely scenario.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:17 | Link to Comment Eagle1
Eagle1's picture

Dear Amerika

Hope you like my Change

Sincerely

Bammi

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:17 | Link to Comment qussl3
qussl3's picture

Harper is asking for it.

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:22 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

Debka will come out with some stories soon about Canada's small but increasingly extreme Al-CIA-Duh branch, the Allah Akbar Hoser Brigade.

pods

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:17 | Link to Comment drink or die
drink or die's picture

We have saved the planet by not burning that oil. 

 

What do you mean it doesn't matter if someone else burns it?

 

oh.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:18 | Link to Comment Lilguy
Lilguy's picture

Sort of an over-the-top emotional first reaction in Canada, I'd say.

Of course, the more oil Canada sells to China or Japan or elsewhere in Asia, the more of their current oil suppliers' oil will come to the US.  There is a market equilibrium out there, and huffiness won't change that. 

Heck, we may even find more oil IN the US!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:21 | Link to Comment freakscene
freakscene's picture

Finding it is not the problem. Having a President that wants cheaper domestic energy consumption is the current problem America faces.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:57 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Just to be a tad contrarian, sorry, it's my nature:  Can we recalculate that "cheap" oil by throwing in the costs of the military and the big oil subsidies, and the ethanol subsidies?   What does a gallon of gasoline really cost?   This ain't my area of expertise but I'll bet there are a few ZHers out there who have the numbers.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:33 | Link to Comment gookempucky
gookempucky's picture

Masked bandit-------hence refinery closing's----no margins

http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/gasoline/margins/index.php

 

Capacity and # of refiners

http://205.254.135.24/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_cap1_dcu_nus_a.htm

http://205.254.135.24/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_cap1_dcu_nus_a.htm

put the link in twice just incase someone missed the first.

US does not have refining capacity for the XL pipeline let alone storge capacity.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:17 | Link to Comment been there done that
been there done that's picture

Part of Obama's disaster plan, (to create one)

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:19 | Link to Comment Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

The US adds 'Uncertainty' to the already immensely popular 'Inflation' as a key Export.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!