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Keystone Aftermath Arrives: Canada Pledges To Sell Oil To Asia, As US Becomes Source Of "Uncertainty"

Tyler Durden's picture





 

America's loss is China's gain. In the aftermath of the Keystone XL fiasco, which will see not only a number of jobs "uncreated" but a natural source of crude lost, Canada is already planning next steps. Which will benefit Shanghai directly and immediately. As Bloomberg reports, "Prime Minister Stephen Harper, in a telephone call yesterday, told Obama “Canada will continue to work to diversify its energy exports,” according to details provided by Harper’s office. Canadian Natural Resource Minister Joe Oliver said relying less on the U.S. would help strengthen the country’s “financial security.” The “decision by the Obama administration underlines the importance of diversifying and expanding our markets, including the growing Asian market,” Oliver told reporters in Ottawa." Ironically, it is diversifying away from the US, with its ever soaring, politically-predicated uncertainty, that is a source of stability and diversification. But it is not only crude. Wonder why no jobs are being created? Wonder why despite record low mortgage rates there is no bottom in sight for housing? Simple - nobody can plan one month, let alone one year ahead for any US-based venture or business. The political risk is simply too great - whether it is contract law (see GM and Chrysler) or simple solvency (see record high levels of cash hoarded by companies), it is there, and as long as it is there, there will be no hiring, no capex spending, no growth, and no real improvement in the economy, the real economy, not that defined by where the Russell 2000 closes on any given day.

More from the Keystone XL aftermath:

Harper “expressed his profound disappointment with the news,” according to the statement, which added that Obama told Harper the rejection was not based on the project’s merit and that the company is free to re-apply.

 

Canada this month began hearings on a proposed pipeline by Enbridge Inc. to move crude from Alberta’s oil sands to British Columbia’s coast, where it could be shipped to Asian markets.

 

Environmentalists and Canadian opposition lawmakers welcomed the Obama administration’s decision. Megan Leslie, a lawmaker for the opposition New Democratic Party, said the Keystone pipeline project was harmful to Canada’s energy security.

 

“What I’m opposed to is continuing the unchecked expansion of the oil sands,” Leslie said by telephone.

 

Enbridge (ENB)’s pipeline may now become the new flashpoint between Harper and the opposition. Harper has said building the capacity to sell the country’s oil to Asian markets is in the national interest, and the government will review regulatory- approval rules for new energy projects so they can be done more quickly. Harper has also said he will look more closely into complaints that “foreign money” is being used to overload the regulatory process.

Then there are those who have pointed out that in recent years the equity risk premium has soared to multi-year highs. There is a reason for that. It is called: America.

Yesterday’s rejection “certainly introduces new uncertainties into the economic relationship,” said David Pumphrey, deputy director of the energy and national security program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. “This is a cornerstone of economic development for the country.”

And as pertains to this story, it is a good thing that the American Strategic Petroleum Reserve is safe and untapped for every eventuality. Oh wait...

 


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Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:18 | Link to Comment JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

"Uncertainty"?

They're just figuring this out now...Boy the knucks are slow. 

Great White North: http://youtu.be/GsgVspgy184

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:42 | Link to Comment Jena
Jena's picture

SCTV = Great Canadian Export

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:18 | Link to Comment JohnFrodo
JohnFrodo's picture

Harper is an idiot, most hated PM in history. Due to our first past the post system and having two left wing parties, he won with 25% of the country support. It was the Liberals that set up our great finance, kept us out of the gulf war, and kept goverment spending in check. Canada imports 1/2 its oil, so it makes sense for Canada to sell it to Canada. Keystone made no financial sense, sure it was good for big oil, but the refined product was not going to be used in the USA.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:34 | Link to Comment jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

Harper is an idiot, most hated PM in history. Due to our first past the post system and having two left wing parties, he won with 25% of the country support. It was the Liberals that set up our great finance, kept us out of the gulf war, and kept goverment spending in check.

************

Agree that Harper is an idiot-but you sound like you actually believe there is a difference between the two parties and that one is superior to the other-

The Liberals balanced the budget by shifting SS and UIC into general revenues-thus reducing the deficit by hiding it in a maze of shit-

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:20 | Link to Comment Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

Harper is the best PM we have had since we kicked out the big spending  Liberals...Oh wait he has been here for six years and has six more to go, so he is the only one real Canadians believe in.  Take your socialist Liberal progressive views and shove them where the sun don't shine. You are likely an NDP critic :-) Right?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:20 | Link to Comment Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

Harper is the best PM we have had since we kicked out the big spending  Liberals...Oh wait he has been here for six years and has six more to go, so he is the only one real Canadians believe in.  Take your socialist Liberal progressive views and shove them where the sun don't shine. You are likely an NDP critic :-) Right?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 18:07 | Link to Comment jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

You are likely an NDP critic :-) Right?

***********

I'm not sure if you were addressing my comment or not-

There is "no" political party or MP in Canada that I like-

Everyone one of them are completely clueless duped/on the take fools-led around by the nose by one Mark Carney-

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:45 | Link to Comment frosty zoom
frosty zoom's picture

uh...

look, everytime a country elects a so-called CONservative the same thing happens:

they cut taxes for their richass buddies, give their richass buddies boondoggle contracts for facsist crap, and then  BORROW THEIR WAY TO OBLIVION.

how's that harper surplus working out for you?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:54 | Link to Comment gmak
gmak's picture

It's also the Liberals who put us in debt up to our eyeballs in the first place.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:49 | Link to Comment ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

BS - the Liberals REDUCED debt in the first place under Chretien. Remember 12 years of budget surpluses?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 17:10 | Link to Comment dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

12 years of budget surpluses because the GST revenues exceeded expectations in a healthy economy.   Mulroony gets the credit for the much loved GST.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 17:46 | Link to Comment jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

BS - the Liberals REDUCED debt in the first place under Chretien. Remember 12 years of budget surpluses?

************

Here is a staunch former Liberal finance minister and Prime minister explaining where money comes from-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mgs_n9mh84&feature=related

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:01 | Link to Comment Prairie Fire
Prairie Fire's picture

Quebec and Ontario.

Remove them.

Debt free in no time.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 17:06 | Link to Comment dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

When then prime minister Cretien proposed renameing Mt. Logan in the Yukon to Mt P.E. Trudeau his office recieved 300 000 emails objecting to to the idea.   Harper the most hated, hardly.  You probably don't know who Logan was and what his contribution and legacy to Canada is. 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:01 | Link to Comment Prairie Fire
Prairie Fire's picture

Which province do you live in?

Probably a have-not province correct?

You think you have a right to tell Albertans (not Canadians) where this oil should go?

Take the fucking hand outs we give you AND SHUT THE FUCK UP

You fucking Liberals/NDP/Communist occupy mouthbreathing unionists better understand that there IS a new political party being formed right now in Alberta, and seperation IS on the agenda, what are all you upper and lower canadians going to do? You can't survive without Alberta, but Alberta can thrive without you.

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:20 | Link to Comment GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

All according to plan.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:31 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Yes, all according to plan.

http://youtu.be/Layz-3XxZC4

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:20 | Link to Comment sabra1
sabra1's picture

time for a chinese aircraft carrier in Lake Ontario!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:23 | Link to Comment wrs1
wrs1's picture

Looks like a win, win, win.

 

US doesn't have cheap oil dumped on it's domestic markets, Canada gets the best price for it's oil and China get's access to an additional supply that can help fuel more growth there.

 

In the end, everyone wins, the other way was just not good for anyone other than those benefiting from super cheap oil, read this as the refiners who are already making profits hand over fist due to the massive collapse in NG price.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:04 | Link to Comment Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

http://www.hovensa.com/

 

HOVENSA Announces Closure of St. Croix Refinery

Company to Work Closely with the U.S. Virgin Islands Government to Ease Transition

ST. CROIX, U.S. Virgin Islands Jan. 18, 2012 — HOVENSA L.L.C. announced today that it will commence shutdown of its refinery on St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands. Following the shutdown, the complex will operate as an oil storage terminal.

Losses at the HOVENSA refinery have totaled $1.3 billion in the past three years alone and were projected to continue. These losses have been caused primarily by weakness in demand for refined petroleum products due to the global economic slowdown and the addition of new refining capacity in emerging markets. In the past three years, these factors have caused the closure of approximately 18 refineries in the United States and Europe with capacity totaling more than 2 million barrels of oil per day. In addition, the low price of natural gas in the United States has put HOVENSA, an oil-fueled refinery, at a competitive disadvantage.

“We deeply regret the closure of the HOVENSA refinery and the impact on our dedicated people,” said Brian K. Lever, President and Chief Operating Officer of HOVENSA. “We explored all available options to avoid this outcome, but severe financial losses left us with no other choice. We will provide significantly enhanced benefits for those union and salaried employees who are impacted and will work closely with the government of the U.S. Virgin Islands to ease the transition for the rest of the community.”

After formal shutdown of the refinery, which will occur by the middle of February, most of those employed at HOVENSA will continue working through a transition period. Thereafter, approximately 100 people will remain to work at the oil storage terminal.

 

© 2012 Hovensa 
Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:23 | Link to Comment lindaamick
lindaamick's picture

Don't you love the way Big Transnational Corporations threaten? 

"Let us bury a pipeline through your country or else!"

There is no guarantee Transcanada will sell the oil to the US even if they agree to the pipeline. 

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 17:12 | Link to Comment dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

linda the bimbo   TCPL is the shipper not the owner of the oil in its pipeline

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:23 | Link to Comment AccreditedEYE
AccreditedEYE's picture

YES! And Private Equit.... er, I mean... Mitt Romney will bring the stability we all need and deserve. /sarc 

Volatility in markets is what helps returns stay nice and high. Look at Emerging Markets. You just need good decisions being made, for long term value and prosperity, and the markets will do the rest. Is this even possible in America anymore?!?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:24 | Link to Comment clagr
clagr's picture

We have to get rid of this BOZO!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:40 | Link to Comment frosty zoom
frosty zoom's picture

out with the pepsi!

in with the coke!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:23 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

You mean "Union Pacific's gain." the stock is surging on the news. The sole purpose of the pipeline wasn't to "get oil to Louisiana or else!" the sole purpose was to by pass the American consumer by phucking the railroad and trucking people. The fact is for Canada to build a pipeline over the Rockies to Vancouver will cost hundreds of billions of dollars. Good luck! With nat gas at record lows in the middle of winter in the USA we already have our alternative in the USA. I will say this: the amount of nat gas being used to produce electricity is simply astounding--and only goes to show the utter worthlessness of the bulk of the USA's political class--all of whom are speculating on a higher price...with "you know who" providing the financing. Keystone? Hahahahahaha. More like "kidney stone."

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:38 | Link to Comment Sofa King
Sofa King's picture

You got that right buddy.  Whatever was going to be sold to the refineries down south, will still get sold...their margins will just be shittier. Besides oil demand has tanked but the powers that be have to keep the price per barrel of oil high or else risk all out revolution in all those toilets that sell oil to us.  Anyone that doubts the whole collapsing demand thing, here's the recent announcement from Hess:

http://www.hovensa.com/

We're now at a couple of million per day in refining capacity shut down in this country due to lack of demand.  Suck on that shit you peak-oil clowns.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:00 | Link to Comment Thorny Xi
Thorny Xi's picture

Peak Oil Clowns?  If you understood the construct, you'd understand that the Hovensa/Hess closure is part of it - since high oil prices have always been expected to crush demand (induce OECD depression) - which of course  extends the supply a bit (for those who can afford it) but of course reduces production capability as refiners in the west close, which keeps price high, which continues economic stagnation ... it's a stairstep to the floor from peak production (2005-2011) forward for the OECD.  ZH reprinted the 1974 "Kissinger Report" last week.  Read it - the present situation's been a "known known" for 40 years.

 

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:05 | Link to Comment Sofa King
Sofa King's picture

I understand quite well, thank you.  Let me repeat: Peak...Oil...Clowns; right up there on the podium with the Global Warming Fools.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 18:50 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

My, oh my, we have someone with *very* strong beliefs....

Could you explain to me why since 2005, global net oil exports are down ~10%?

In other words, why is the amount of freely available oil on the market shrinking?

Did you know that the oil industry spent about $2 trillion dollars in the 90's to bring on about 5 million barrels a day of production?

And were you aware that since 2002, they have spent $2 trillion to maintain flat production?

Did you know that since 2005 the number of oil wells has increased by ~20% while the rate per well has declined ~20%??

Could you give me a rough idea of the world reserves of crude oil that *flows* of its own accord? How many years is that at current rates?

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:24 | Link to Comment vegas
vegas's picture

Of course, why would they cow-tow to a country led by a dumbass? Hey Amerika, if you don't want the oil we'll sell it to China. Morons, pure and simple. Why have jobs and energy when B. Hussein Soetero can give you a food stamp debit card?

 

http://vegasxau.blogspot.com

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:04 | Link to Comment Prairie Fire
Prairie Fire's picture

You better be an Albertan to be saying shit like that.

If you don't live here it's not yours.

Enjoy being a have not.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:24 | Link to Comment CEOoftheSOFA
CEOoftheSOFA's picture

Pipeline? We don't need no stinkin pipeline! We will just print up some cash and give it to ACORN. That's how you revive an economy!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:25 | Link to Comment W10321303
W10321303's picture

America's loss, Pipeline leaks and explosions! See Greg Palast on Vulture's Picnic; hint: PIG software disabled by oilygopoly syndicate (www.truthout.org) America's loss? Cornell study shows job creation numbers by the oilygopoly is overstated - (fuelfix.com/blog2011)

Remember folks the crime familieS aren't just on Wall Street or The City.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:29 | Link to Comment Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

ride your bike much?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:28 | Link to Comment Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

You know Obama is against the pipeline. So why not build the refinery up in Montana or North Dakota? Ship the finished product by rail from there. I know again the EPA would be against. BTW Obama is pathetic.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:27 | Link to Comment 5880
5880's picture

The White House will say,

"It's not uncertainty, it's lack of demand......"

They don't pump their own gas

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:27 | Link to Comment Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

After today's dismal jobs report (2nd week of Janaury IJCs the same as 2010 and 2011), Obama has the gall to deny more jobs? Then he is killing off coal burning plants?

http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com/2012/01/19/initial-jobless-claim...

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:27 | Link to Comment scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

I'd like to think this has come to pass through China's back door lobby money. This way maybe when gas is $6 the peeps will know who's homes need to be burned to the ground. Otherwise is there any hope they'll ever wake up?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:30 | Link to Comment Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

Right now they're having a celebratory chant of "Death to America!" in the Oval Office.

Harper ain't stupid... this is the best thing to happen to Canada in a long time. Now he can get real money for oil, not Bennie Bux.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:33 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

You wait..this will be the start of a new world currency...wait until the Canadians no longer accept the US dollar as payment....

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:51 | Link to Comment sethstorm
sethstorm's picture

Then the US would just use its military.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 21:13 | Link to Comment msamour
msamour's picture

Sure, send in your military, but keep in mind we are part of NATO as well, and we know your entire forces' play books since our militaries are INTEGRATED, dumbass.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:30 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

For a site as sharp as ZH, I am just stunned that they seem to have fallen, hook line and sinker, for this completely blown out of proportion and propagandized bullshit story of this pipeline being of any value to America or that it would do anything to lower fuel prices.

The truth is that the exact opposite is closer to the truth.

I guess even the sharpest of minds can occasionally be taken for a ride.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:40 | Link to Comment Thorny Xi
Thorny Xi's picture

Stories like this are the ZH equivalent of Kardashian Koverage

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:57 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

What I can't understand is why the most obvious of truths is being ignored, that being that this oil was NEVER INTENDED FOR THE US MARKET. It was ALWAYS INTENTED TO EXPORT TO INTERNATIONAL MARKETS.

Yet they keep harping on this preposterous "sending the oil to China" bullshit. It's just fuckin sad to see such willful denial of obvious facts.

"One of the most important facts that is missing in the national debate surrounding the proposed Keystone XL tar sands pipeline is this – Keystone XL will not bring any more oil into the United State for decades to come. Canada doesn’t have nearly enough oil to fill existing pipelines going to the United States. However, existing Canadian oil pipelines all go to the Midwest, where the only buyer for their crude is the United States. Keystone XL would divert Canadian oil from refineries in the Midwest to the Gulf Coast where it can be refined and exported. Many of these refineries are in free trade zones where they may be exported to the international buyers without paying U.S. taxes. And that is exactly what Valero, one of the largest potential buyers of Keystone XL's oil, has told its investors it will do."

"The idea that Keystone XL will improve U.S. oil supply is a documented scam being played on the American people by Big Oil and its friends in Washington DC. Canada's excess pipeline capacity is well known. In a Department of Energy reportevaluating Keystone XL's impacts on U.S. energy supply over the next twenty years, the agency found that it will take decades for Canada to produce enough oil to fill existing pipelines. On page 90, the report concludes that the United States will import the same amount of crude from Canada through 2030 whether or not Keystone XL is built."

MORE HERE:

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/keystone-xl-will-raise-oil-prices...

"

A new report from Oil Change International lays out the case, based on data and documents from the U.S. Energy Information Administration and the Canadian National Energy Board, corporate disclosures to regulators and investors, and analysis of the rapidly shifting oil market.

The facts:

  • Keystone XL is an export pipeline. The Port Arthur, Texas, refiners at the end of its route are focused on expanding exports to Europe, and Latin America. Much of the fuel refined from the pipeline’s heavy crude oil will never reach U.S. drivers’ tanks.
  • Valero, the key customer for crude oil from Keystone XL, has explicitly detailed an export strategy to its investors. Because Valero’s Port Arthur refinery is in a Foreign Trade Zone, the company can carry out its strategy tax-free."

MORE HERE:

http://priceofoil.org/2011/08/31/report-exporting-energy-security-keysto...

 

But let's not allow the facts to get in the way of a distracting republican vs. democrat diatribe...right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:16 | Link to Comment Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

Great post AlienIQ. Seemingly the lone kernel of truth in a sea of comments by trolls for a disinformation campaign by the oil prostitutes and pimps.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:40 | Link to Comment BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

So lets see. Having US companies extract oil from the oil sands (Exxon and other US majors are there) Send it through a pipeline to Texas, (there are multiple investors in the project) Refine the oil at US refinery's there and then sell the products on the global market is somehow bad for the US.  Somehow what I just described sounds strangely like capitalism at work. But I guess that would be a bad thing right about now what with the low prices for refined fuel and all.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:28 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

You can delude yourself all you want...but it won't change the facts.

Gas prices: Keystone XL will increase gas prices for Americans—Especially Farmers

By draining Midwestern refineries of cheap Canadian crude into export-oriented refineries in the Gulf Coast, Keystone XL will increase the cost of gas for Americans.

Independent analysis of these figures found this would increase per-gallon prices by 20 cents/gallon in the Midwest.

Jobs: TransCanada’s jobs projections are vastly inflated.

In 2008, TransCanada’s Presidential Permit application for Keystone XL to the State Department indicated “a peak workforce of approximately 3,500 to 4,200 construction personnel” to build the pipeline.

According to TransCanada’s own data, just 11% of the construction jobs on the Keystone I pipeline in South Dakota were filled by South Dakotans–most of them for temporary, low-paying manual labor.

I would happily provide a link...but it would be wasted on you since you obviously do not or will not read.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 17:03 | Link to Comment BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

So lets see. Having US companies extract oil from the oil sands (Exxon and other US majors are there) Send it through a pipeline to Texas, (there are multiple investors in the project) Refine the oil at US refinery's there and then sell the products on the global market is somehow bad for the US.  Somehow what I just described sounds strangely like capitalism at work. But I guess that would be a bad thing right about now what with the low prices for refined fuel and all.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 17:17 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Is this your version of plugging your ears, closing your eyes and screaming LALALALALALALALA?

Yeah...that'll make it go away.

The fact that your avitar is a deer in headlights is all too fitting.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:30 | Link to Comment hyperbole2000
hyperbole2000's picture

The proposed pipeline over the Rockies to the Pacific to feed Asian markets would reuire lifting a 25 year moratorium on tanker traffic through the BC coast line islands. Good luck with that, it will be a cold day in hell when it happens. Reapplying for the Keystone XL with improved groundwater aquifer protection wordage would provide a faster time frame by an order of magnitude.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:36 | Link to Comment haskelslocal
haskelslocal's picture

Imagine the size of that puddle as the pipeline freeze-breaks on the downward slope of the Rockies under heavy velocity.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 20:14 | Link to Comment Toronto Kid
Toronto Kid's picture

A pipeline does not have to go through BC. Refine the gas in Alberta, pipe it to the Hudson Bay, ship it from there. Or pipe it to eastern Canada, who are fed up with expensive imports of gasoline when Alberta is up to their eyeballs in the stuff.

There are lots of options, with some good discussions going on. Harper now has the Canadian good-will to get this done, all courtesy of Obama. I have to say, Obama seems to be doing good things for Canada, encouraging us to diversify into foreign markets and process our raw materials here at home.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:09 | Link to Comment Prairie Fire
Prairie Fire's picture

Funny how all you easterners have an opinion about Alberta now--now that you finally recognize that we have (almost) singlehandedly supported this entire country for the last forty years.

Now all Ontarians just love Alberta and its 'Canadian oil'.

Fucking disgusting. How's Dalton McGuinty working out for you guys?

Does it feel good to be in a go nowhere, have not, liberal paradise?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:28 | Link to Comment Margin Call
Margin Call's picture

I was wondering when Western Alienation was going to make an appearance in these threads! Finally!

I'm so proud that petty Canadian family squabbles have made it to the hallowed pages of ZH.

Fri, 01/20/2012 - 03:42 | Link to Comment Toronto Kid
Toronto Kid's picture

Never voted for McGuinty, but thanks for painting all of Ontario with the same brush. And no, Alberta has not supported all of Canada for forty years, Ontario did. Yes, that trend is changing as the Liberals drive Ontario into the ground.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:46 | Link to Comment Margin Call
Margin Call's picture

+100

Funny that a debate that has Canada at its centre spends so little time considering what the actual dynamics of the issue are in Canada beyond press release from the PMO. All this China talk is just a bad bluff.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:31 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

I am going long gas siphons.....and hitting every Saab, Volvo, and Subaru I can find....all with an Obama sticker on them...lol

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:33 | Link to Comment haskelslocal
haskelslocal's picture

Canda "pledges". That's some funny shit. As a sales person, I know when someone doesn't want to buy from me? I say back to them, "well, then I will sell my stuff elsewhere thank you very much!" It's like, NO FUCKING KIDDING, there trying to sell stuff!

I wonder too if, because the U.S. is for the first time in forever an exporter of energy, the Canadians will then not sell us oil if we want it. "Yeah, sorry bub, your Ameican dollars are yucky.

Or maybe, just maybe, this is a deeper riddle and the effective distribution of Canadian oil to Asia will offset the desired and sure to be long-term sanctions against Iran.

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:38 | Link to Comment Thorny Xi
Thorny Xi's picture

Exporter of a couple hundred thousand barrels a day of refined product, primarily diesel, made from oil that was imported ... while diesel stayed at $4 a gallon or close to it here.  Get it right. 

Canada's bitumin oil would be refined and exported as well.  Noprth slope oil has virtually all been sold to Japan and China. 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:34 | Link to Comment gmak
gmak's picture

Hmmm. I guess Canada should start charging for their oil in Gold, since the USD belongs to a country run by idiots who would slit their childrens metaphorical throats to get elected. Who knows when they will say they won't honour USD if it comes from Canada - after all Oil and USD are fungible (one can be exchanged for the other). If the USA doesn't want oil from Canda, maybe that means they don't want USD from Canada either.  Looksl like demanding Gold is the only solution. heh.

 

I think that we will be "extremely disappointed" all the way to the bank.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:39 | Link to Comment SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Me like hockey. Hosers gave their old drinking buddy first crack at the oil, eh? But, there's a new China boy in town, and he gots cash backed by real gold! Sounds like a winner to me. Pass me a couple of Labatts, or Molsons, willya? Yankees wanna come over the border for that one, and the hockey sticks come out, gloves off, and the national sport of bashing a puck or heads becomes invasion control. Take that, eh? Go play some baseball in your tightie whities, Yankee sore losers. Take off, eh ?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:40 | Link to Comment Contra_Man
Contra_Man's picture

Alberta's Gasoline Refinery Megafrastructure Boom:

http://www.stockhouse.com/Blogs/ViewDetailedPost.aspx?p=123946

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:41 | Link to Comment Meremortal
Meremortal's picture

Hey Obama...air is fungible, dumbass. We could have refined that oil with the cleanest operations on the planet, but now China, where you can't see 40 yards through the smog, will do the refining.

Brilliant. This Obama guy is one in a million. One in a million with a good gig, that is.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:41 | Link to Comment Burr's 2nd Shot
Burr's 2nd Shot's picture

Uncertainty, no.  Disbelief, yes.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:43 | Link to Comment The Fonz...befo...
The Fonz...before shark jump's picture

Chinese govt already looking to buy and do deals with producing gold companies in Canada...

 

cant wait for US propaganda to start kicking in portraying Canada human rights violations and our pourous borders being a threat to US security as terrorists can just walk into the back door of the USA.... lol

 

hey they will need some premise to invade wont they?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:01 | Link to Comment anomalous
anomalous's picture

I'm going to watch Canadian Bacon again ASAP!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:36 | Link to Comment frosty zoom
frosty zoom's picture

if you want to see human rights violations in canada, go to fort chipewyan.

 

 

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:45 | Link to Comment hyperbole2000
hyperbole2000's picture

Prior to the 2007/2008 crash all the major oil corps each had 10 year - $10 billion tar sand production capacity upgrade projects in full gear. Money was raining down on the tars sands. It cost you $1000/mo to share a 14 foot trailer with a whiskey fart smelling yahoo. The oil corps were 2 to 3 years into their 10 year plan when the 2007/2008 crash occured. As a consequence the oil corps frozes all procurement contracts not yet awarded. The capicity expansions from the projects that were cash flowed up to that time are now comming online. There is no pipeline capacity to export it and the tar sands will soon start eating their oil. Expect a fire sale soon to get rid of it.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:09 | Link to Comment hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

Citations please?

Some of this was covered in The Oil Drum, articles by Gail

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5708

"     technology and price will be the biggest determinants of the extent to which oil sands production is expanded. Necessary price to expand production will depend on whether a carbon tax is imposed, and also on whether royalties remain at the current level or increase. Both of these suggest that necessary price is likely to be quite high-likely $80 to $100 barrel or more, in the absence of technology improvements."

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6128

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5666

Keep these prices in mind when considering Chris Cooke's article on "dark inventory".

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/8834

"All is not as it appears in the global oil markets, which have become entirely dysfunctional and no longer fit for its purpose, in my view. I believe that the market price is about to collapse as it did in 2008, and that this will mark the end of an era in which the market has been run by and on behalf of trading and financial intermediaries."

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:46 | Link to Comment NaN
NaN's picture

That Chris Cooke article on dark inventory is indeed an eye opener.

The Keystone pipeline would be a gift to Texas refineries.  It is more ecologically sound to have the low grade oil from tar sands refined in place or as close as possible.  (Even better, save it for specialty needs when oil hits $500 per barrel.)

Oil producers have incentives to increase prices, but there is also a disincentive to not go so high as to create an opening for economies of scale in cleaner energy systems.  It is ironic that costly to extract, marginal oil sources suffer from the same need for consistent, high oil prices.  

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:48 | Link to Comment sethstorm
sethstorm's picture

Hopefully there's an unexpected string of "accidents" with that pipeline, resulting in no oil for Asia.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:53 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Does anyone here disagree that Canada has the right to seek full and fair value for thier oil?

I think most people, esp. the Free Marketers that inhabit the Hedge, would say that it is Canada's interest to get their oil exports aligned with Brent pricing instead of WTI...

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:59 | Link to Comment anomalous
anomalous's picture

Good point Flakmeister. I'm liking Canada more all the time. It would be nice to have a financially strong neighbor to the north.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:45 | Link to Comment Evil Bugeyes
Evil Bugeyes's picture

Canada can get best value for their oil by selling it to the US because of lower transportation costs. They are only selling to China because the US is too stupid to recognize a good deal when it is offered one.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:49 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I won't argue.... but the buyer usually pays for shipping....

And since the price of gas in the US more closely tracks Brent, Keystone would do nothing to lower prices...

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:56 | Link to Comment Evil Bugeyes
Evil Bugeyes's picture

Buyer subtracts shipping from his offering price.

If I offer to sell you a new 1oz gold Krugerrand for only $100 (plus a shipping charge of $5000), would you take me up on the offer?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:02 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

And your point is?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:52 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

 So, what harm was this pipeline supposed to do? There are gas and oil pipeline all over America. I spent some time in Alaska, that great pipeline has been around a long time and has done little to no harm to Alaska.

I don't get what makes oil from tar sands any more dangerous in a pipeline than oil from Alberta's or Alaska's regular oil wells??

Obama is going to be crucified over this. He must already be sure he is a one term president.  Who is the real political power broker that killed this pipeline? And don't claim that it is the greens, because they have no real power in America. Someone in the energy business does not want Canadian Tar Sands oil heading to US refineries. Someone IN the ENERGY business!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:54 | Link to Comment TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

Obooba dreams of us all driving shitty little battery powered Gubmint Motors Omobiles.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:31 | Link to Comment frosty zoom
frosty zoom's picture

put on a sweater, wimpy!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:55 | Link to Comment riphowardkatz
riphowardkatz's picture

A Keynsian wet dream has come true with a supply/demand gap being filled.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:02 | Link to Comment ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

The US exports oil, yet nevertheless it will be good to  import it and build a pipeline across the country to move it?

Who gains?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:07 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

I am not sure, but I remember many years ago hearing that a lot of the Alasakan oil goes to Japan and the Far East. Yet it really doesn't matter, because oil prices are set by "World Wide Demand". Not by how much Canadian or Alaska oil flows directly to the US.

By the way, I live along a Canadian to USA oil pipeline and the USA refiner is just 30 miles from my local gas station. I often buy gas in the shadow of the pipeline terminal and refinery, yet prices are no cheaper there! It's a vast market, if we don't get Tar Sands oil, a tanker will arrive from some other place with the needed oil. Source matters in War, but not in a free market.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:59 | Link to Comment kito
kito's picture

bullish USO

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:00 | Link to Comment james larson
james larson's picture

Is this an example of that "regime uncertainty" developed by Higgs?  You know...what Krugman calls a fairy tale?

Seems Obama's Economic basis is strait out of Zorg in Fifth Element...knock over the glass and see all the little things...so busy now...

 

Not real jobs.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:01 | Link to Comment Heyoka Bianco
Heyoka Bianco's picture

All this scrabbling to find the diminishing oil is like rooting through the sofa cushions trying to find money to pay the mortgage. China is worse off than the US when the oil runs out. If the US is truly the "leader in innovation" that's so often spoken of, why are we still mired in junkie-like dependence on a technolog over a century old?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:32 | Link to Comment freakscene
freakscene's picture

Seriously? Because no other technology can compete with it; and there are centurieS more left to use.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:03 | Link to Comment roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

I love listening to people that think that that oil was for Americans. It was going to be turned into diesel fuel and sent to Latin America and Asia. You all need to do some research besides just the RNC before you post. 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:10 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

As yesterday and today should make abundantly clear: Facts pertaining to this issue will not be tolerated if they in any way interfere with the delightful republican vs. democrat circus act currently on display in this thread.

Just sit back and watch the children play make believe. It's all we can do at this point.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:10 | Link to Comment freakscene
freakscene's picture

Was the work to build and support going to be done by illegal Asian and Latino's?

Nevermind. Don't answer.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:15 | Link to Comment Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

Okay, so what?  We need the jobs.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:37 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

"In 2008, TransCanada’s Presidential Permit application for Keystone XL to the State Department indicated “a peak workforce of approximately 3,500 to 4,200 construction personnel” to build the pipeline."

"According to TransCanada’s own data, just 11% of the construction jobs on the Keystone I pipeline in South Dakota were filled by South Dakotans–most of them for temporary, low-paying manual labor."

more here:
http://www.tarsandsaction.org/spread-the-word/key-facts-keystone-xl/

Yeah...no doubt a few hundred temporary low wage jobs in South Dakota will surely save America from it current financial clusterfuck.

Dream on....

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:11 | Link to Comment mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

As a proud Canadian it's about goddamned time we cut the titanic loose.

Hello China - we welcome you

Yippeee!!!!!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:35 | Link to Comment oddjob
oddjob's picture

I guess you are from back East, my condolences. Ever been to Richmond?.....China is here already.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:16 | Link to Comment Prairie Fire
Prairie Fire's picture

Wrong. It's not Canadian oil--it's Albertan oil.

You've just been lucky enough that we are so good natured here that we don't mind keeping a few million easterners alive with our generosity.

Really it's just spare change, don't worry about paying us back.

And we love it when you call us redneck, it's a real compliment.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:30 | Link to Comment frosty zoom
frosty zoom's picture

don't forget that viceroy harper is from trawna...

 

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:09 | Link to Comment sabra1
sabra1's picture

the intent is to get oil to 150-200 dollars, have the US be the only producer. many more oil fields thru-out the states will also open up.

http://www.theinfomine.com/2010/04/15/the-worlds-longest-horizontal-wells-by-largest-drilling-rig/

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:23 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Ok.... remind me never to ask you what the backup plan is....

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:10 | Link to Comment Madcow
Madcow's picture

For Canada, this makes perfect sense. 

What's the point of building a pipelne to a country like the USA or Haiti - that is destined to become an economic wasteland with no paying customers ? 

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:10 | Link to Comment ZeroPoint
ZeroPoint's picture

Central planning failure. Fuck Obama, fuck the United Nations.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:20 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

lol, fantasy world reasoning, if he had gone the other way and pleased the Oil lobby, you could have said the same thing : central planned oil lobby wins. And the UN is not part of this loop, sorry. 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:12 | Link to Comment mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

We Canadians take pride in our socialist beliefs. Helping our neighbor is in our blood.

But man that Commie wackjob you got makes us look like Rockefeller

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:46 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

"But man that Commie wackjob you got makes us look like Rockefeller"

A couple of points of hilarity in your post that I feel are worth pointing out:

1) "Commie wachjob"...so instead you'll take your business to...China. A communist country. Brilliant.

2) "makes us look like Rockefeller"... Since when is looking anything like this band of evil robber baron globalists a good thing?...Or were you intending to insult yourself?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:29 | Link to Comment frosty zoom
frosty zoom's picture

oh, yeah, oblahma the commie.  see you at the BANK OF AMERICA STADIUM for the marxist-in-chief's acceptance speech.

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:12 | Link to Comment Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

Chalk another one up for the Cloward-Piven marionnette in chief.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:13 | Link to Comment hmmmstrange
hmmmstrange's picture

Canada should just build a pipeline to China.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:21 | Link to Comment AC_Doctor
AC_Doctor's picture

If this oil was for domestic usage why the heck does the pipline have to go to the Gulf?  There is a refinery in  Wyoming closed down for lack of oil to refine and the big refinery in Oklahoma, so someone is full of shit here.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:24 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Was your local refinery able to deal with high sulphur, low API oil???

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:02 | Link to Comment oddjob
oddjob's picture

Upgraded synthetic crude is low sulfur and 30 API and can be refined anywhere. It sells at a premium to WTI.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:04 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Yep... and what kind of crackspreads do you have??? Can you make money at it?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:57 | Link to Comment Arthur
Arthur's picture

look at the distribution  & refinary network in the USA.  It is easier to go east and west from the gulf than Wyoming.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 17:31 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

as well as avoid paying taxes by using refineries in the free trade zone in the Gulf.

Don't you love it when big companies can raise the cost of domestic gas while exporting it overseas and avoiding taxes in the process?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:09 | Link to Comment Archimedes
Archimedes's picture

Ah one thinker in the bunch! Thank you! Please read my post below. This oil was never meant for Americans. Why do you think they want to ship it to the gulf!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 17:27 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

It's not for domestic use. By building the pipeline to the gulf, they can then redirect the oil that is currently going to midwest refineries and send it to the "free trade zone" in the gulf where it can be refined and exported overseas and also pay NO US TAXES on that oil.

What I find utterly comical is that at ZH, there is never a opportunity to slam companies that evade taxes via offshore tax havens and whatnot that goes to waste, yet with this one project, the fact that it would completely avoid taxes and divert oil from US use to export overseas seems to have been willingly ignored. It really begs the question: Why is this aspect of the project getting no ink here?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:16 | Link to Comment Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

Going long pedal cars

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:18 | Link to Comment DonutBoy
DonutBoy's picture

I'm no fan of Obama - but I think this is part of a larger deal.  China buys oil from Iran and we are going to cut-off Iran.  We need China's economy to keep moving.  We encouraged the Saudi's to publicly assure China's supply - an affront to their proto-nuclear neighbor.  The Saudi's wanted something in return, no Keystone XL.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:24 | Link to Comment thismonkeydoesn...
thismonkeydoesnotdance's picture

as an albertan, this move make a helluva lot of sense, economically. as long as we dont take payment in a currency that is not american, i wont see any tanks rolling through calgary anytime soon... man can Obama ever take shitting the bed to whole new heights..... fight endless wars over oil, when we have lots of it right here :)

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:27 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Nail head, meet hammer....

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:26 | Link to Comment frosty zoom
frosty zoom's picture

never underestimate the venality of viceroy harper.  gotta use all those weapons WE're buying (who needs an MRI when you've got engineless fighter jets!) somewhere.  what better place to start than calgary.  

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:29 | Link to Comment tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

i can't believe that i am in agreement with the lying indonesian fake president but the pipeline was a boondoggle white elephant about whose determination was too much haste......haste and waste go together like a horse and carriage mom was told by father....

www.obamacrimes.com

 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 14:29 | Link to Comment SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Fellow Zero Hedgers - invest in a diplomatic future with your Canadian neighbors - eat a beaver today. Canadian flavor.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:21 | Link to Comment frosty zoom
frosty zoom's picture

all we got here is muskrat!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:07 | Link to Comment Archimedes
Archimedes's picture

So Fucking what! The oil was gonna be heading overseas anyway. People keep talking the Republican BS about creating jobs. What a bunch of BS. Trans Canada themselves said they expect to create 6,500 jobs per year for a two year period and most of them would be Canadian workers anyway!. That's nothing!

And no one seems to mention that this oil is almost twice as CO2 intensive as conventional oil and it takes nearly 3 barrels of Fresh water to create one barrel of oil. And where do you think this fresh water is coming from? In addition, where do you think they propose to store these giant lakes of toxic water after they extract the oil?

Kinda shocked Mr Durden thinks this pipeline is a good idea. Or perhaps he is reading a different prospectus than I am. This pipeline benefits Trans Canada and that's it.

Why we are not switching to Natural gas and Thorium based energy is beyond me.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:43 | Link to Comment mcarthur
mcarthur's picture

You worry about your environment and we'll worry about ours.  Keep burning that coal boys. 

 

If you have ever been to the Fort McMurray area you will notice it was a shit hole to begin with.  And thorium is a total pipe dream.  Just a couple East Indian crackpots at the IAEA pushing that one. 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 22:18 | Link to Comment Prairie Fire
Prairie Fire's picture

Fort Mac a shithole?

Fuck you. How's the view from that ivory tower out in Ontario?

You know Alberta paid for it to be built right?

Don't bother thanking us, it's really no big deal.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 23:29 | Link to Comment frosty zoom
frosty zoom's picture

"Fort Mac a shithole?"

no way!

 

they've got a radio shack AND a kfc!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:23 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

the importance of this pipeline getting approved this month has not yet trickled down to slewie

just one more attention-getting political football game? 

i have this thought:  maybe there is beaucoup more oil in libya than was widely realized?

then i realize that by "forcing" (L0L!!!) canada to sell to china, they will hafta trade in USD or we'll invade the hozers!  L0L!!!

check this out, tho:  Canada remained the largest exporter of total petroleum in September, exporting 2,829 thousand barrels per day to the United States, which is an increase from last month (2,637 thousand barrels per day). The second largest exporter of total petroleum was Saudi Arabia with 1,479 thousand barrels per day. Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries

now, this is without the KeystoneKops getting involved, too & btw: NothingHasChanged!

fracking "scientific studies" and "EIRs" have gotta be growing in importance by leaps and bounds in both countries.  those are "jobs" too.  some poo-poo'd the importance of the aquifer and by implication all water supplies when this story first broke.  jobs and oil trump water, so let's hurry?

unfortunately for the republicans [and possibly for all], the dems are at the helm and they control the goobermint and hence the process, the research, and the report analysis here:  reality 101.  canada didn't do anything "wrong" and neither did the US;  this isn't  aggressive or  retaliatory and neither is canada's response

this is oil, this is water, this is politics and this is law

frankly if the pols want to dampen the process of madly scrambling to frack and slow the "oil race" down a few paces, i'm not gonna #occupy myself too strenuously over it right now, even if it helps their "pac donations" as the oil money vies for their attention

wouldn't it be funny if the goobermint has finally finished off the giant helpings of debt and conflict left-overs from the various crimes and other "programs" of the bush years and reached a point where the banksters and the oil and defense interests can no longer command:  do something!  you must do something!

...just kidding...

but wasn't it just a week or two ago people were worried about the sabre-rattling in hormuz getting outa control and we were looking @ chart-porn of shockingly skyrocketing "probabilities" of israel drawing down on iran,  worrying about a carrier getting augured and watching the US passing "laws" about banking and using the "global reserve currency" here and there?

i tried to explain that in spite of all the propaganda, there appeared to be no reason for any party to fuk things up any further and that as a matter of fact, with "DONE" getting stamped on iraq,  on AF/PAK, libya, and the elections in egypt [and tunisia], this really lQQked kinda stable if everyone could just back off a step, share an adult beverage & a smoke, and agree to let the diplomats and spooks take it from here for a while

compared to what we were going thru earlier this month, slewie considers this a vast improvement!  

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:34 | Link to Comment mcarthur
mcarthur's picture

Many ways to skin this cat.

Kinder Morgan can twin an existing pipeline in Canada for instance.

http://www.kindermorgan.com/business/canada/data/2/rec_docs/KMinBC_2011.pdf

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:36 | Link to Comment wonderatitall
wonderatitall's picture

i love this obama. he is the greatest unjobcreator in history.  i see nothing but good for everyone. union goons  and assorted nazis who voted for this buffoon will never work again. the northeast will starve and freeze . l love obama. only a democrat who spent 20 years in a i hate whitey "church" could do what i have always wanted, the destruction and separation of the fasciti yankee empire....obama 2012. why? fuck you in the ass with ky, thats why!!!

 

 

god bless the criminal organization of obama

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:54 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

L0L!!!

last week, i'm having coffee and talking to a guy i know and a woman asks him a question and we get to chatting for a few minutes together

she was a nurse and when she asked us what "you guys do?" my friend patiently explained to her that we each, separatey, had decided to stop working so younger guys could have our fabulous fuking jobs!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:39 | Link to Comment Evil Bugeyes
Evil Bugeyes's picture

Obama is a neocon sleeper agent. He wants to keep America dependent on Middle East oil in order to justify the next US attack there.

So what if this leads to a few unemployed refinery workers in the US? This will be more than counterbalanced by the number of soldiers that will be employed in our next "Operation Freedom".

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 15:40 | Link to Comment farmerjohn2112
farmerjohn2112's picture

Fucken Canucks...

Let's build a fence to keep the bitchez out.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:38 | Link to Comment Haole
Haole's picture

It would more likely be used to keep you in ironically, which works for us fuckin' Canucks too.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:19 | Link to Comment non_anon
non_anon's picture

barry sotero's destruction of the US, right on schedule

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:26 | Link to Comment yogibear
yogibear's picture

Canada can sell the oil to the animal trainers:

 

To manage one million animals gives me a headache,"

http://www.businessinsider.com/foxconn-animals-2012-1

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:30 | Link to Comment AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

I hate Obomba, but this is probably the only correct thing he did in his mandate...

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:34 | Link to Comment Haole
Haole's picture

It continually amazes me that so many on a board like this apparently still believe that the puppet one calls "president" actually has any influence whatsoever on major decisions like energy policy in this day and age.   Aside from being the tool that brings the messages from the prompter to the people, signs what he's told, etc...  There are a couple of dozen levels of top secret above the figurehead, Barry knows nothing and what he does doesn't matter, he personally has no impact on decision and/or policy-making utimately I submit.

Kitimat might love filling Chinese tankers, B.C. and Alberta are going to love the development eventually despite the issues with environmental impact, public opposition, etc.  There has to be some kind of wicked, clandestine reason(s) why this thing is being shelved however, even temporarily.  It doesn't make sense but what really does anymore...

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 16:57 | Link to Comment zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

There are only three solutions left for every damn problem in this country.

 

 

1. Print

2. pRiNt

3. priNT

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 17:17 | Link to Comment Georgesblog
Georgesblog's picture

Ever get the feeling that the world is passing the United States by? There is always a buyer for crude oil. There is always someone ready to make the deal that another drops the ball on. There's a lot of snoozing and losing, going on.

http://georgesblogforum.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/the-daily-climb-2/

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 19:06 | Link to Comment dcb
dcb's picture

NOT SURE WHERE i STAND ON THIS ISSUE AS i REALLY DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT IT, BUT i KNOW A SHITTY ARTICLE WHEN i SEE IT. IT DOESN'T SEEM TO ADDRESS ANY OF THE ISSUES THAT OPPONENTS OF THE PROJECT HAVE AND IF THEY ARE FACTUAL OR NOT. IN TRUTH IS SEEMS TO BE A REPUBLICAN TALKING POINT/ OBAMA SLAM ARTICLE.

THE IMPLICATIONS ARE OF COURSE FROM READING IT IS THAT THE GOVERNEMTN MUST BEND OVER BACKWARDS FOR CORPANIES TO BE WILLING TO INVEST SO THEY MAKE SURE THEY CAN'T TAKE A LOSS.

FUNNY STEVE JOBS CREATED A GREAT INDUSTRY WIOTHOUG KNOWING IF IT WOULD PAY OFF. THIS IS SO TYPICAL CRONY CAPITIALIST CRAP.

NOW YOU COULD BE RIGHT, BUT THE INFORMATION PROVIDED IS PROPAGANDA, NOT INFORMATION.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 19:08 | Link to Comment dcb
dcb's picture

oH BASED ON THE PRICE OF NATURAL GAS AT A  10 YAR LOW WE SHOULD BE CONVERTING TO NATURAL GAS STUFF INSTEAD OF BUILDING PIPELINES FROM CANADA.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 19:46 | Link to Comment Schacht Mat
Schacht Mat's picture

Unfortunately, the Canadian reaction was entirely predictable.  Had the shoe been on the other foot, we would have done the same (well, these days perhaps we would have treated somebody who dissed us to a kinetic event - or events).  Once Pandora's box is open, it will not take long for that trickle to become a flood.  Tar sands oil, once processed into heavy crude, is a very fungible commodity and the majority of the world considers Canadian oil to be more ethical than say, Middle East oil, whose proceeds are used to subjugate women, repress religious freedoms and export terrorism around the world.  Our ethical buys of Saudi oil indirectly helped finance the toppling of the World Trade Centre - I'd gladly trade that for stable, democratic and judiciosly ethical Canadian crude.

Many people believe that the US has sufficient supplies for its own needs at this time and this is true.  Unfortunately, this is also irrelevant.  As long as the US needs to import oil, it is subject to competing with the world demands on export product.  Today, the supply / demand balance is a near equilibrium.  With the growing rate of Chinese and Indian consumption.  In China, a GDP increase of only 6% is akin to a full blown recession - while a continued 6% increase in the Chinese demand for oil will tip the equilibrium into a supply short market, all other demands things remaining equal, by 2014.  Once there is not enough oil to satisfy all of the global import demand, the cost in rapidly increase and we may find ourselves outbid by countries willing to pay for oil in something more stable, and less printed, than US dollars.  One third of our oil is currently imported, two thirds of all our oil is used for transportation purposes (including the local delivery of local orgaincally grown foods - not too many rickshaws in Oregon or California), and the US ecomony is by far the most dependant on oil of all the countires in the world that are net importers of crude. 

When the crunch comes, we will need to have not just oil, but friendly oil.  We primarily import from Mexico (although that will likely disappear in the next 5 years), Venezuela, Nigeria, the Middle East, North Africa and the North Sea, oh, and of course Canada.  Of that list, only the North Sea and Canada can be counted as friends of the US.  The North Sea oil is a small imort quantity and declining.  Canada is currently a large import source (#2) and has the potential to increase.  Yeah - let's diss those guys.  What could possibly go wrong here.

And let's be realistic about our ability to shift gears - thorium reactors - why not, but not by 2015; Natural gas, sure, but with our current as built infrastructure being oil based, it will take an incredibly long time; electrification - check out the state of the rare earth inventory (most of which is currently sourced from - surprise - China); bicycles - OK who wants to drive the pedal powered bulldozer or farm plow.

We should not have cancelled Keystone - at best we should have accepted it subject to required changes - at least this way we would have preserved, to some extent, the status quo.  Not a good day for American energy security.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 21:45 | Link to Comment dubbleoj
dubbleoj's picture

Zerohedge is whining like a MSM bitch about energy issues. Why are you eating up all this propaganda? The Kitimat Northern Gateway project is still under a two year review, and it will be another 5-10 years to establish all of the infrastructure, including multiple pipelines, LNG processing, crude loading and diluent processing, port dredging, port construction, supporting industries, food, housing etc. Sure the new political impetus might be able to expedite the approval hearing process, but the Keystone XL will be approved and complete long before the Kitimat project is done. They will both be built. They have both been planned for years and one silly presidential election is not going to stop them. Will they create jobs? Some. Will they provide energy security and lower prices? Not really.  This is not about economics or environment, just politics, and your verbatim whining probably just implies you care more about your short term portofolio than what the real issues are. 

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 21:59 | Link to Comment Spore
Spore's picture

The only thing the Keystone pipeline would have done is create chaos for decades as the government 1, starts to take land homes and business. 2, starts eminent domain and then steals the land and displaces thousands of homeowners and job losses as a result of all the closed businesses along the way. 3, finally builds the pipeline and sells the oil to china anyway with no benefit to the American people! If the republicans really wanted to help our country they would build a new state of the art refinery in N. Dakota. Then we could ship gas from there with minimum impact to the northern states or anywhere in the U.S. for the benefit of citizens. I’m amazed at how the republicans believe that the people are so stupid that we would think they are actually thinking of us the sheeple. No U.S. citizen would benefit from the pipeline. Its all smoke and mirrors and just pure BS!  IMO obummer actually got this one right. GO Ron Paul!

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 23:23 | Link to Comment SillySalesmanQu...
SillySalesmanQuestion's picture

Political Risk this all of you bought and paid for low life shills (middle finger extended to the high heavens). The political elite should be strung up for doing absolutely nothing... nothing except for their own gratification, and getting re-elected. That is all that matters to the continental 535 and their brethren overseas...staying in power. Well, you are going to find out what civil disobedience, peaceful demonstration, and the consequences of ignoring the will of the people for "political risk"means.  Light Sweet Crude, Gold and Silver Bitchez...

 

SillySalesmanQuestion

Fri, 01/20/2012 - 05:14 | Link to Comment Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

"America's loss is China's gain"

Seriously tyler WTF?

XL Keystone Pipeline, Cui Bono tyler, Cui Bono?

 

P.S.

Are you having an off day or is someone covering your role while you sit by the pool?

This site keeps getting more drudge-like by the day, stop it!

 

 

 

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 01:28 | Link to Comment modest_proposal
modest_proposal's picture

Why is it that I don't see reference to what's driving the republicans to put so much juice behind this thing? I wondered for a while, until I finally got twigged - this thing is a Koch brothers project. So the billionaires put the squeeze on their captive legislators, and tried to jam it down the administration's throat.

K - I hear the cries already of "why are you leaping to partisan conspiracy-ness?". Skipping right past Kos and Grist and HuffPo articles (understandably not the most unbiased...), the  Guardian from the UK has a direct and substantiable regulatory filing paper trail on this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/oct/05/koch-keystone-xl-pipeline

So let's all chill on the merits of this thing. This thing is currently a pissing contest between two factions of TPTB. The biggest question is whether 1) the Koch brothers are going to (further) line their pockets on this deal, and 2) the relative political benefit/ambarassment of relatively captive legislators.

As loyal ZH'ers, we should recognize that the petroleum markets are global and fungible. The sulfur and by-products of the lovely tar sands are going to get pushed (externalized) into the global environment, and we're all going to pay the environmental price for it at one level or other. Peak energy consumption might get kicked down the road a little bit, and global warming advanced a little bit. And these things are going to happen whether the pipeline goes to OK or VC.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 01:55 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Damn fine post....

To also be fair, you have to look at the other side, Warren stands to make some money through BNSF...

Keystone is deal that boils down to "Whose side makes the money..."....

That is why I have not taken a stance either way....

Yep, since I know that the Tar Sands are gonna be burned, I just accept it and hope the economy collapses from Peak Oil before we fry the place with coal...

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