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Labor Unions Demand Escalation Of Trade War With China, Ask Obama To Restrict Chinese Auto Part Imports

Tyler Durden's picture


Because the last time the administration got involved in the car space the results were so positive (for the unions if not so much for creditors), it appears we may be approaching another episode where central planning will make the decisions in the US auto space. Only this time instead of creditors, the impaired party will be China. Reuters reports: "Midwestern U.S. lawmakers and union groups on Tuesday urged President Barack Obama to restrict imports of auto parts from China that they said benefited from massive illegal subsidies and threatened hundreds of thousands of American jobs. "We need to stand up to the bully on the block," U.S. Senator Debbie Stabenow, a Michigan Democrat, said, referring to Beijing. "The bully on the block continues to take our lunch money and we need to stop that," she said." Odd - China was not complaining when the Obama administration was providing massive subsidies (whether or not illegal remains to be seen  - surely Holder is all over it) to the solar and other "green" industries. In other words, just like Solyndra and Ener1, who are merely the first of many artificially subsidized entities, provided such great if highly transitory results for US employment, let's recreate the experiment at the wholesale level, by implicit subsidies and while also angering America's biggest creditor. Something tells us this proposal has a definite probability of passing. In the meantime, central planning for everyone.

More on this brilliant foray into trade wars:

The push for the administration to bring a possible case at the World Trade Organization or begin a U.S. Commerce Department investigation that could lead to duties on Chinese-made auto parts came one week after Obama said he was creating a new Trade Enforcement Unit to crack down on unfair foreign trade practices in China and other countries around the world.


It could create further strains in the U.S.-China relationship as Obama is preparing to host Chinese Vice President Xi Jinping, who is expected to be China's next leader, a the White House on Feb. 14.


"We must be aggressive on trade enforcement - especially as China ramps up subsidies in strategic industries like auto parts, said Senator Sherrod Brown, an Ohio Democrat.


"Today, we're providing the president with his first opportunity to deliver on the promise to guarantee a level playing field," said Scott Paul, president of the American Alliance for Manufacturing, whose members include the United Steelworkers union and steel companies.


The groups released studies prepared by the labor-backed Economic Policy Institute and the Stewart and Stewart law firm that cataloged Chinese government subsidies and practices that they said violated WTO rules and threatened jobs at many small- and medium-sized U.S. auto parts manufacturers.


"If these policies are not stopped, by the end of the decade China could seize 50 percent or more of our auto parts market, costing hundreds of thousands of American jobs," said Terrence Stewart, Stewart and Stewart's managing partner, which specializes in cases against allegedly unfair imports.


Last year, the United States ran a deficit of nearly $10 billion in auto parts trade with China.

Here's a thought: perhaps the US would run a surplus if it provided quality pieces at affordable prices that could compete with China-made products? As for the idiocty of the remainder, we will just watch it crash and burn as it is enacted, and has dire consequences on every other part of the global economy, as these same trade unions finally realize that Chimerica are actually joined at the hip, and that what is worse for China is n-fold worse for the US.


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Tue, 01/31/2012 - 15:53 | 2113747 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Good.  Fuck China.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 15:55 | 2113753 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Phuk ewe PRC.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 15:58 | 2113764 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

We should have done this years ago instead of bailing out the auto industry.  It would have made the industry more competetive and at the same time would have kept the competition inside America.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:06 | 2113809 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

2 problems here:

1)  Junk made in China is just that:  JUNK.

2)  Unions increase prices to the point of no return, as union workers will not accept benefits, etc... being removed.


Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:47 | 2114055 JW n FL
Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:24 | 2114503 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ nope-1004

+ 1

Chinese bearings are (usually) junk, but they are cheap.

Your point No. 2 is correct.  And Timken (the US bearing manufacturer) is among the worst crybabies re imports from Japan, China abd even Germany, France and the UK.

Timken has low market share in Peru because their bearings are too expensive.  NO WAY their (automotive bearings anyway) are 25% better than Japanese as their higher prices would imply.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:06 | 2113813 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

In all seriousness though, it's too late for anything but escalation. What you should have done, if we're going to be dealing in hypotheticals, is not have partnered with the Chinese in the first place. Too late, now you have to export your inflation to them before they can import their [wage] deflation to you. Good luck with all that.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:08 | 2113825 kito
kito's picture

actually lennon, we are just pissing off the chinese, who have a potential market of 1.3 billion plus people. as it is, american companies have a hard time getting their foot through the great wall, how do you think they will react with more free trade manipulation on our part???

china is working feverishly towards an internal consumption market. there will come a day when they wont need anything we provide. truth be told, they need africa and south america for raw commodities alot more than they need the u.s.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:24 | 2113929 xela2200
xela2200's picture

As it is China is the US 3rd export market.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:16 | 2113872 VanillAnalyst
VanillAnalyst's picture

Trade war?.......... like with money?........... Well..... that doesn't sound fun at all....... we wouldn't even have an excuse to build more tanks.

Let's not half ass this. Let's have an old fashioned war.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 23:21 | 2115390 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Yep. All that excess capacity needs to be scrubbed, just like it was in WWII.

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 07:59 | 2115808 Mareka
Mareka's picture

Good, That way GM, still in business because my government bailed it out with my money, can still charge me $180 for a part that wouldn't have failed if it had been designed right in the first place.  Heads they win, tails I lose.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:07 | 2113799 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

The Unions won't get anything but an election year token stroke & tug.

Did they really believe that either of the two 'parties' in the U.S. were going to interfere with multinational corporate investment in the trillions building plants and facilities in China, so that they could use China as the factory for lower-cost-of-production cars, car parts, electronics and every other consumable good, now and for decades to come?

Do the brilliant leaders of the unions, who represent their union due-paying members best interests (/sarc), really think those massive GM andFord (and every other manufacturer and supplier in the world). etc. factories in multiple Chinese manufacturing zones are going to be shut down due to their wails and moans?

Aside from that, anyone having even a basic understanding as to how China has made it far easier to produce goods there than in the U.S., with giant zones, with every faciity, machine, engineering resource and any other tool or problem 'solver' on hand 24/7 (essentially being subsidized by the Chinese Government), understands why this continued investment won't be reversed absent some sort of major global event that turns into an actual war.

It was Bill Clinton that gave China Most Favored Nation Trade Status, after George W.'s father set the ball up on the tee for him.

What's a union member to do?


(I am not arguing for or against trade sanctions on China for purposes of this response. I'm just relaying the realities to those who may have missed economic and global trade history since the 1980s.)

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:13 | 2113856 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Truth is... you can't fight and win this war while stirring another actual one again. America is out of sudden moves, can't afford them anymore. You need a nation of tacticians not war-brutes or you'll lose big time. Start here:


Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:14 | 2113862 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

....absent some sort of major global event that turns into an actual war.

Little Clean water...  and no Oil..

China's issues come to a head sooner then later.



Tue, 01/31/2012 - 17:24 | 2114257 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Export the trade unions to China.  That will cook their goose.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:04 | 2113806 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

Trade wars always end in disaster.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:10 | 2113841 Puck Xue
Puck Xue's picture

China is currently 79 on the list of country's about to be phuked.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 15:59 | 2113775 DeltaCharlie
DeltaCharlie's picture

No, America is fucking you, stupid!

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:07 | 2113821 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I think you are mixing up the US Empire, which is run by globalist bankers, with America.  America only exists as an idea now.

And all the Ad Hom is getting ridiculous.  At least have an arguement to go along with the name calling.  If you need a reference to see how it is done, find Trav, he will learn you.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 17:54 | 2114366 spartan117
spartan117's picture


Most of America would rather vote for Romney/Obama than Ron Paul.  As far as I'm concerned, they can be lumped in with the bankers.  If they're going to ignorant, they deserve the coming fallout. 

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 03:20 | 2115674 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

I think you are mixing up the US Empire, which is run by globalist bankers, with America. America only exists as an idea now.


'America' is just a fable.

'America' is just the tale.

US of A has always been driven by US citizenism.

The ways of US citizens have not changed since 1776,July,4th.

The US of A is a product of globalism.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:09 | 2113835 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

What did you want to say except you wanted to be first to post?

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:28 | 2113950 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture



oh boy...I can see it already.  Prep for the newly priced (at cost) $156,000 Ford Escort.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 20:04 | 2114810 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

I'll wait for the more affordably priced Ford Fiesta at $100,000.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:39 | 2114026 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Tariffs are NOT central planning. Unless, of course, you the economy had many times more central planning the late 19th Century than it does now.

And I would be curious how anyone thinks that someone could make it on $2 a day here in the States.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:07 | 2113750 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

BDIY says China is ahead of the game.

Again I might add...

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 15:55 | 2113756 Poetic injustice
Poetic injustice's picture

Yes, do it. The faster trade war starts, the better.
Of course, making better quality cars than Chinese would also work but that is impossible alternative.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:12 | 2113852 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

Sorry, but I happen to think that we Americans make quality products if given the chance.  It sure would be nice to have a manufacturing base again.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:24 | 2113924 Poetic injustice
Poetic injustice's picture

They painful irony is that in current situation it is not possible.
Government subsidies = no incentive to work better, and no subsidies = costs more than in China.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:33 | 2113975 pods
pods's picture

Agree.  Most of the "auto parts" that are the low end Chinese made stuff is so bad I would not put them on my enemies car.  


Tue, 01/31/2012 - 17:29 | 2114290 carguym14
carguym14's picture

Might want to look a little closer-most of the parts you buy from the dealer (and what is installed on the car at the factory) are Chinese.

2010 chevy car tail light?Made in China.99 chevy pick up oil cooler lines?Made in cetera et cetera............

I run a shop,and it would amaze you the very few parts made here (I buy as much as possible made here,but sometimes you have no choice).I refuse to install Chinese steering components-I will sell US made at cost instead.

It's too late now anyway-we should have been preventing this 20+ years ago.If only someone <cough>Ross Perot <cough> had debated the outcome wth Al Gore many years ago..........

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:03 | 2114418 pods
pods's picture

Oh I agree.  Source my parts on the internet. Not many made in USA.  Some decent stuff I have found from Mexico.  Actually posted down below about $8 Chinese tie-rod ends I saw.  Did the front end on the minivan, and forgot to order the sway bar link kit online.  Stopped by Advance and they only had one type. Cheap ass boots, impossible to torque without twisting.  Nightmare.  Guess they just cannot make margins with higher end stuff?


Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:35 | 2114001 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Are you kidding me? Domestic automobiles are and have been pieces of garbage. I bought my last domestic 10 years ago and never again will I buy another one.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:39 | 2114019 dickizinya
dickizinya's picture

except for the high corporate taxes, onerous environmental laws, union featherbedding, and O YEAH--try building a factory without every local politician tossing up legal obstacles until you make payoffs that push your break even to the 23rd century.


Tue, 01/31/2012 - 15:56 | 2113758 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

One small correction ... the Federal Reserve is America's biggest creditor.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:06 | 2113763 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

yeah, yeah, its China's fault...

its always someone else's fault when it comes to the great basket case of the "free world"...

bitch ass america...just can't stand being second best...

or, should i say third world...

Silver and Gold suckers..............

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 15:58 | 2113766 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

S&P Warns of Cuts; Another US Downgrade Coming?

Concerns over the size of United States debt reared their head once again as ratings agency Standard & Poor’s warned that health care costs for a number of highly-rated Group of 20 countries, including the U.S., could hurt growth prospects and harm their sovereign creditworthiness from the middle of this decade.

"Governments' fiscal burdens will increase significantly over the coming decade, with the highest deterioration in public finances likely to occur in Europe and other advanced G-20 economies, such as Japan and the U.S.," S&P said in a statement on Tuesday.


Tue, 01/31/2012 - 15:59 | 2113768 I am more equal...
I am more equal than others's picture

Can you say war?

"War is good for nothing" except for kick starting your failed consumer economy.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:20 | 2113839 fuu
fuu's picture

At this point it will need to be a serious kick ass war, the effects of the last 12 years of war are wearing off.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 17:32 | 2114301 carguym14
carguym14's picture

Like WW2 where everyone elses manufacturing was bombed into rubble?

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 17:34 | 2114307 fuu
fuu's picture

America would need to put the unemployed 10% to work making bombs to get all that done.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 15:59 | 2113772 Trajan
Trajan's picture

StupiD, its not just for breakfast anymore!

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:00 | 2113776 Bud Denton
Bud Denton's picture

Get them Chinese!  How dare they interfere with the lifestyles of Obama voters!  If the American taxpayers are all tapped out and can't afford to subsidize union jobs directly, why, then, they'll just have to support them indirectly, through higher prices.


There.  Now that that's taken care of, lets go print some money and distribute it to the proles so they'll be able to afford the crappy "output" of the Obama voters.


GM should name their next car "The Excretion."

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:00 | 2113779 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

So we go to protect our manufacturers through trade policy like the Chinese have been doing for decades and somebody is crying foul?  I say repeal the 16th Ammendment and raise money through tariffs!

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:00 | 2113781 iamtheeggman wh...
iamtheeggman whooooooooooooo's picture

While (taxpayer owned) GM just inked a deal with South Korea's Hyundai to supply $1 billion in parts...

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 09:52 | 2128306 RSloane
RSloane's picture

Yezz. Its jerbs jerbs jerbs, just not in the US.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:01 | 2113783 Contra_Man
Contra_Man's picture

Maybe the Chinese central planners have alternatively decided to not import any NA automobiles for they have sided with German automobile manufacturers instead (reoccurring trading theme) ... and all this propaganda is just a face saving effort on behalf of Government Motors/NA manufacturers who have also now stuffed every possible channel.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:01 | 2113785 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Pass the Sweet and Sour Shrimp........

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:02 | 2113787 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Unionistas and scared scatless Dem's to Obama - Dance, bitch!  LOL!

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:03 | 2113792 Believable-Hypocrite
Believable-Hypocrite's picture

Yea this is what I want auto parts from china. How would you like taking a trip thru the Rockies with a set of brakes just rebuilt with chinese parts.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:36 | 2114005 pods
pods's picture

I actually do all the work on our cars and I can tell you, some of the stuff I see is downright scary.  

You ain't livin until you are taking a high speed turn on an $8 Chinese tire- rod end!


Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:03 | 2113798 ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

Let's just enact trade sanctions via the currency markets instead, where it's so much more polite.

Do I have to think of everything around here?

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:04 | 2113800 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

I dont know why all aren't writing checks to Trumka. Please turn us into the Disneyland unions built in Michigan....please I beg you...please!

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:14 | 2113864 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

Oh, you mean the ones that gave us the 5 day week and 8 hour day?  Those unions?

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:41 | 2114040 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Union employees get paid for 5 day weeks and 8 hour days.  What they actually, well that's not a number that you're gonna see. 

Anyone who's scratched out a living as a self-made person, or worked in an entrepreneurial environment, doesn't know the meaning of a 40 hour work week.  And no one twisted our arms to do it.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 17:29 | 2114286 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

If they had stopped there history would see them as hero's.  Course if Hitler had stopped with the economic improvements and not gone on to kill a few million Jews he would be viewed differently too.

But he didnt and neither did they.

Any other fairytails you want me to tell you the ending too?

Shrek cheats on Fiona in #8.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:04 | 2113801 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Stocks and bonds are in a holding pattern.  Usually we would have seen a trigger pulled so the algos could have scalped investors.  I wonder why not?  Perhaps this next trigger is much bigger than a banking panic in Europe or America.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:04 | 2113805 TrulyBelieving
TrulyBelieving's picture

In other words, let the unions keep their pensions, benefits, and high labor costs at the expense of the American taxpayer.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:05 | 2113807 iamtheeggman wh...
iamtheeggman whooooooooooooo's picture

Buick is one of the best selling cars in China.... or was.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:12 | 2113853 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Was in the U.S. too.  'bout 30 years ago.

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 00:19 | 2115498 xela2200
xela2200's picture

My first car was 1979 Buick Century. I thought it was a solid car because it lasted me 65K miles. My Nissan now has 120k, and the engine only fails when it needs a new battery.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:42 | 2114013 sethstorm
sethstorm's picture

Buick is just another name for Opel these days.

A really bad and cut down Opel.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:06 | 2113810 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Charge a slave labor and environmental tariff on Chinese imports. 

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:19 | 2113889 Hansel
Hansel's picture


What is this crap Tyler?  "Here's a thought: perhaps the US would run a surplus if it provided quality pieces at affordable prices that could compete with China-made products?"  Chinese workers at Foxconn make about $.70 an hour.  At another company I know, the workers make about $200 to $300 a month.  I think you don't know what you're talking about.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:06 | 2113816 fuu
fuu's picture

"We need to stand up to the bully on the block," U.S. Senator Debbie Stabenow, a Michigan Democrat, said, referring to Beijing. "The bully on the block continues to take our lunch money and we need to stop that," she said."


Yes China is the biggest bully on the block. Shut your pie hole Debbie.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 20:12 | 2114829 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

C'mon, give a dumb bitch a break.  Even if it's just because she had to get divorced, again, because her 2nd hubby got caught up in a prostitution ring.


Man, I wish the UP could break off from Troll-land.  Her and Carl Lenin are big incentives to restart the "Blow Up The Bridge Committee."

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:07 | 2113818 BandGap
BandGap's picture

The screeeeeeams will get louder as the economy wallows. I are so cornfused by the data coming out of late - recession, yet car sales picking up.  Recession, yet employment keeps going up. 

What does the end look like?

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:07 | 2113819 Stu
Stu's picture
McDonald's, Starbucks and Pizza Hut raise prices (in China) Fast food chains in China are ushering in the Year of the Dragon by raising their prices.



China's food Inflation accelerated to 9.1 per cent in December, up from November's 8.8 per cent. Food costs account for up to half of monthly spending for the poor.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:07 | 2113820 MarcusLCrassus
MarcusLCrassus's picture

"Because the last time the administration got involved in the car space the results were so positive (for the unions if not so much for creditors)..."


So it sounds like you would rather have let GM go under?   

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:16 | 2113870 fuu
fuu's picture


Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:24 | 2113927 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

So it sounds like you would rather have let GM go under? 


The gap had to be reconciled.  Either slowly (Chinese water torture, no pun) or band-aid-like.  Why is it that (almost) every other corporation has the right to default/go bankrupt?  This isn't about producing quality, competitive cars (hasn't been for a while at Direct, GM, anyway) - it's about subsidizing voting employees.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:41 | 2114550 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

Well,, we could take a page from the China book and subsidize all the "workers".


As to the submission that started this, China didn't "complain" becuase they can't IMAGINE that a country would NOT protect and grow their industry.


Pile of crap, weak at that.


Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:25 | 2113934 smlaz
smlaz's picture

So how the fuck is it that BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, VW, Nissan, et al can build cars here, repatriate the profits, and still compete, or beat, the GMs, Fords, and Chryslers (well, FIAT now, which should be in the above foreign group really)?  Ah yes, their plants are placed in no-union states, with tax benefits from those states, to the benefit of the home-countries.  How is it that the foreign car co's can eat our collective lunch while the US car co's sit back and get crushed (but for Ford, and here comes the answer...)?  It's management you idiots!  Build a better, cheaper car, duhhhhh...  The auto industry was the foreshadowing of the US economy, just 40 years ago!  Soon the Germans will own Europe, and then the US.  I may still be alive when it happens.  The Thousand Year Reich.  Bormann Flight Capital.  Just you wait...

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 00:23 | 2115504 xela2200
xela2200's picture

"So it sounds like you would rather have let GM go under?   "


And Chrysler twice already (1976 and 2008). Now, it combined with FIAT which is the only other company in the planet that is actually worst. So, Fix It Again Tony. Tony is a busy guy.

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 08:56 | 2115855 prole
prole's picture

"Because the last time the administration got involved in the car space the results were so positive (for the unions if not so much for creditors)..."

So it sounds like you would rather have let GM go under?

Me and every other American. We have demonstrated and proved that we do not want GM cars.

Repeat- We do not want GM cars.

Americans do not buy these cars. The only "people" who "buy" these cars are .gov fleets, and the feds who drive these "work" cars buy lexus and beemers for their personal cars. Americans do not want their money going to this garbage company which makes crap cars. Evidently they are one of the first companies to eliminate the spare tire also. So since Americans do not want these crap cars and do not spend their money on these crap cars, the .gov steals the money out of their pockets to prop up the company and pay for the CEO personal jet flying about. So in the end, like the Trabant company before it, the people end up paying for the cars, but they don't get one. (not that they want one)

And for every troll, zombie and goon bashing Chinese products, can I have a personal waiver so I can buy a Chinese car please? Please? Please? If their quality is so bad, how come Americans line up in droves fist full of cash at Walmart to get Chinese gear? And if the quality is so bad- why do you outlaw and ban Chinese cars from import? Why not let them in and let them fail here like Fiat/Renault/GM? ("If" they are such crap)

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 10:27 | 2116110 fuu
fuu's picture


Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:08 | 2113824 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

Auto's? They're so 40 years ago, why don't we start building vehicles to get us to that moon base already?

Central planning is the mouthpiece of the worst interest groups/lobbies in America that in actuality will destroy America in hopes of reviving America.


Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:08 | 2113826 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

Back in the 80's I worked for GM and was a CAW member. The auto industry is a relic and needs to crash and burn and take the union with it. It didn't work then and it does not work today. How you can justify the hourly wage an assembly line worker gets along with all benefit costs is beyond me. Dinosaurs are extinct - this one just survived way past its best before date.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:20 | 2113875 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Most of the US economy is a relic. Factor out government money (both direct and indirect) and it's nothing but a stinking pile of dog shit.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:09 | 2113830 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

How to defeat the strongest economy which has the strongest army in the world for free?

Give them cheap stuff, grow them lazy so they'll get fat and unwilling to build stuff themselves.

Once they don't have the capabilities, Look for their last reamining industries, give it away for free and tripple the prices for all the other stuff they can't build themselves.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:58 | 2114147 falun bong
falun bong's picture

We have a winner. The Chinese won the Cold War without firing a shot. Next takedown will be the US Dollar as the world's reserve/terms of trade currency. That will take 20+ more years but they're fine with that. All their central bankers did hard time on dealing desks in NYC and London...compared to the technocrats/pseudo-intellectuals/academics at the Fed who never had a real job in their lives...let alone played high-stakes poker.

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 00:29 | 2115515 xela2200
xela2200's picture

The worst part is that the government has also been destroying the Technology industry. One of the last industries that the US has a copetitive advantage on. Everything internet related is under attack. Just kiss ass Suckerman is alive. Keep on posting your life away.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:09 | 2113836 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Why not pay the union folk in cars, specifically the ones they make.  That'd solve the channel stuffing and perhaps provide some incentive to make something of value, too.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:11 | 2113837 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Finally, a break from the "free trade is the answer to everything" bullshit.  China is able to undercut U.S. companies because it has:  1) no labor laws; 2) no tort system (if your kid burns to death when a Chinese toy explodes tough shit, caveat emptor); and 3) it has no environmental laws.   It is not because China builds a better mousetrap.  Free trade with China is suicide unless your goal is to obliterate your middle class, and increase the wealth of the oligarchs.  Of course it's been working so well the last 40 years....

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:16 | 2113874 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

China is able to undercut U.S. companies because it has: no labor laws; 2) no tort system (if your kid burns to death when a Chinese toy explodes tough shit, caveat emptor); and 3) it has no environmental laws.


Because those things work so well in Europe and the U.S.?  How many folks in the U.S. Congress are direct financial beneficiaries of a (warped) tort system?  How those labor laws working when you've got what remaining industry there is hamstrung by unions, plus an immigrant worker problem?  And the environmental laws - what % of those are actually useful vs. usury?

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:28 | 2113926 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Yes, let's all live in a world controlled by oligarchs where children labor in the mines and we all drink toxic sludge and like it.   Your team has been selling this bullshit to the American population for 40 years and they bought it.  Now we are seeing the end result.    Tell me again how an American company with plants here can compete with a company that has plants in a country that has no labor laws, no envirornmental laws, and no tort system?  Telling me that our system is corrupt and that some people abuse their rights is not a valid answer. China is not a democracy and it is a state controlled openly fascist entity that is kicking our ass because it is effectively a giant slave ship rowing faster than us.  Is that the answer in your book to what America should become to compete?

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:30 | 2113958 ffart
ffart's picture

So you're saying the solution to a nonexistent problem of everyone in America drinking toxic sludge and being forced into child labor is to adopt the socialist system of a lot of the countries where those problems with environmental abuse and lack of property right enforcement are widespread. Is anyone on the internet a bigger government shill than you? Why don't you go to North Korea and apply for a job sucking dear leader's cock you fucking commie pinko.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:36 | 2114004 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Ah yes, the only two options are a Randian ideal of no government on the one hand, and communism on other.   Anyone who challenges your Randian ideal is a commie.  Well reasoned and brilliantly played.   There is no middle ground where we have roads and schools and a space program and nuclear power and everything else evil government made possible in our modern society.  Let the oligarchs have the keys.   

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:47 | 2114078 Saro
Saro's picture

Rand was a minarchist, not an anarchist.

For someone whose entire schtick consists of frothing at the mouth against a single deceased writer, one would think you'd have a better grasp on her ideas.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 17:28 | 2114284 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I froth at the mouth against a lot of things, including a single deceased writer who seems to have influenced most of our political elite both on the Red Team and the Blue Team.  Sociopaths love her because she exalts their narcissism, and most politicians and oligarchs are sociopaths.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 17:58 | 2114391 Saro
Saro's picture

You think our current batch of politicians favor a hands-off-the-market style of government?

I can only deduce from this that you don't live in the US, or else I would have to call you deranged.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:03 | 2114416 ffart
ffart's picture

Rand was an egotist who cuckolded her husband and was regarded as batshit crazy by many people at the time who were themselves anarchists, but she wasn't a sociopath. A sociopath is someone who believes that a PHD, business suit and absolutely no work experience makes them qualified to decide the fates of billions of people all over the world by moving a few dials around on their magical money printing machine and writing a the same bullshit essay about how the economy is recovering every month, despite all evidence pointing to their philosophy and system of economics being a complete failure that's caused more misery and destruction than the worst dictators who ever lived.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:14 | 2114451 pods
pods's picture

No, they are sociopaths because they can publicly state that their intentions are to foster economic stability, growth, whatever, while privately knowing their job is to keep sucking money from everyone within the money system, and not have any pangs of conscience while doing it!


Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:27 | 2114512 ffart
ffart's picture

Thanks for putting it so eloquently. I get kind of flustered about this kind of stuff. I mean, I know this guy is just a troll but so many people believe what he says I feel like I'm the only lunatic in the insane asylum.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:46 | 2114528 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I commented specifically on the subject of the article, whereas you and others made ad hominem attacks on me in response.  Yet I am the troll.   Once again, brilliant and well played.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 19:25 | 2114685 ffart
ffart's picture

Sorry but I don't think facts are regarded as ad hominem attacks.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 19:37 | 2114735 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Of course, you're rubber I'm glue blah blah blah.   How could I have been so silly.   I'll know not to waste time responding to you next time.  

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 09:09 | 2115873 prole
prole's picture

Please save yourself the effort and don't waste your time posting on this blog next time. TIA you POS Commie.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 21:43 | 2115117 pods
pods's picture

Didnt want to jump into the fight, but it just hit me and wanted to make a point without tossing a blow.

I think that LTER does have some valid points, especially with the original comment.  China is a mercantilist nation, and you cannot have "free trade" with a mercantilist nation.

Of course, we as a nation were part of the problem, as our inflation caused us to have to find lower priced products to keep our apparent standard of living.  But we are showing that you can only eat the seed corn for so long before things go bust.

On a larger issue, the simple fact that we have a debt money system is the real cause of all of our angst.


Wed, 02/01/2012 - 09:19 | 2115894 prole
prole's picture

I think that LTER does have some valid points, especially with the original comment. (When did that idiot ever say anything useful? What a joke) China is a mercantilist nation, and you cannot have "free trade" with a mercantilist nation. (I see you put free trade in quotes, a distasteful term for you? And how can you drop a bomb like you can't have free trade with a mercantile nation (like we aren't one? Hello) If China or any country wants to send us uber-cheap products, it lowers our cost of living, and increases our standard of living.. you are against this I suppose?) Of course, we as a nation were part of the problem, as our inflation caused us to have to find lower priced products to keep our apparent standard of living. But we are showing that you can only eat the seed corn for so long before things go bust. (Oh yeah! "We" are eating the seed corn, or course, "We" are not being taxed to death to pay for billion dollar TOTUS vacations/Solyndra Fatcat insider scams/propping up BS industries like GM and Ethanol, no I was so wrong, it's that "we" are eating the seed corn, it's all our fault!)

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:50 | 2114095 Saro
Saro's picture

Also, the government made roads and schools possible?

If you were living in the USSR, you'd no doubt be saying that they made the soup lines possible, and that without the party, everyone would starve to death.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 17:18 | 2114228 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Great comeback.  Who built the interstate system Einstein?  It's always the same with you guys.  If you believe in government on any level beyond enforcing the private contracts of the oligarchs (mostly debts owed by the debt slaves) and putting people in jail who kill each other (or who threaten the property of the oligarchs), you are a commie.  Can you really only see in such black and white terms?

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 17:32 | 2114300 Saro
Saro's picture

"Who built the interstate system Einstein?"

You didn't merely claim that the government built the roads and schools, you claimed that the government made schools and roads possible.  The question, then, is not whether the government can or did build those things, but whether it must build those things for them to exist. 

Roads and schools would exist and be built (and in fact have been built in the past, and in fact continue to be built now) without a government to do it, your naked attempts at shifting the topic not-withstanding.

Furthermore, I never claimed you were a "commie", so go knock down some other strawman.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 17:35 | 2114308 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Then what's with the USSR reference?

I stand by what I said.  The interstate system would not exist but for government.    Prove to me with something other than "unicorns may have built the interstate system had the government not done so", that I am wrong.  By definition, public schools would not exist but for government.   Prove to me with something other than "unicorns would give poor children an education" that there is a viable private alternative for public schools that works. 

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:02 | 2114408 Willzyx
Willzyx's picture

The interstate highway system is responsible for suburban sprawl.  Settlement sprouted up along highway stops.  Eisenhower had the choice between building a rail network, or the interstate highway system.  Looks like he fucked up.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:14 | 2114469 Saro
Saro's picture

"Then what's with the USSR reference?"

It wasn't a jab at commies in particular.  It's pretty well known that people have an innate bias towards the system they live under.  If a government runs all grocery stores, the people under that government inevitably believe that grocery stores could not exist but for the government.

"The interstate system would not exist but for government."

Really?  No business has an incentive to sell goods in other states, and there was no interstate commerce before the government got involved in building roads?

"By definition, public schools would not exist but for government."

If we ignore all charity, for the moment, I'll give you that one.  Threats of violence are, in fact, the only way to create a dismal, compulsory, one-size-fits-all education system that sucks away creativity and preaches complete obedience to the state. But then we'd have to agree on whether that school system produces better results than a privatized, not-compulsary, flexible education system that isn't necessarily accessible to everyone, and I know we won't agree there.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:22 | 2114489 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"Really?  No business has an incentive to sell goods in other states, and there was no interstate commerce before the government got involved in building roads?"

You just made my point.  Business had a desire and a need for the interstate system long before it was built.  Yet it took a societal effort -- the dreaded anti-Rand collectivist activity of pooling money and resources for the public good, including for the good of private enterprise -- to build it.  And of course you completely skirted by challenge to show me that it could or would have been built without government, because you cannot.  Thank you.


Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:34 | 2114531 Saro
Saro's picture

"Business had a desire and a need for the interstate system long before it was built."

So you are, in fact, asserting that interstate commerce did not take place before the Interstate Highway System was created? *boggle*

And of course you completely skirted by challenge to show me that it could or would have been built without government

See Hong Kong.  If there is a demand for a good, that demand gets met with or without government involvement.  Using your logic, none of us would be able to get out of our garage, since the government didn't build us a driveway to do so.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:44 | 2114553 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"So you are, in fact, asserting that interstate commerce did not take place before the Interstate Highway System was created?"

Exactly not what I said.  I was very specific about the interstate highway system. But I guess if changing the position of your adversary is your only way of winning, then bravo.

As for your reference to "see Hong Kong" for an example of no government involvement, you just lost whatever little credibility you already had:   "Maintaining and expanding Hong Kong's road system is the job of the SAR Government's Highways Department."

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:54 | 2114584 Saro
Saro's picture

So you admit that other roads existed prior to the current roads, and then somehow also claim that the the new roads couldn't be built without the government?  I think it's up to you to show why that makes logical sense.  Also, Hong Kong (and China, actually) have a LOT of privately created roads, especially in their black market districts.  Where there's a demand, it will be met.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 19:09 | 2114604 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

If you keep changing the issue, we'll go on forever.    You live in a world of theory, whereas I live in a world of fact.  The government built the interstate highway system which moves massive commerce for private enterprise.  Private enterprise managed a few roads before that.  Most roads before the interstate system were also public, but funded by the states and localities.  If your point is that private enterprise would have done it all someday, then I guess you've also proved the contrary point -- public funds did it faster for the benefit of all, including private enterprise.  The interstate system massively increased interstate commerce, so once again we have a perfect real world example of the favorable combination of public and private.   Collectivism, benefiting private enterprise and the consuming public alike.  Your theory that something better would have come along eventually with purely private money?  Just a theory that seems disproved by the fact that it did not.  

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 03:33 | 2115682 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The US of A is a success story of the State.

It is how it is.

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 05:42 | 2115750 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Start here:

then come back and argue for Big Brother's continued existence.

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 05:39 | 2115748 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Middle ground?  Sounds like being slightly pregnant, to me.  Perhaps you should "think" long and hard on just where your principles lead (you do have some, right?)

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:31 | 2113965 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Great rhetoric.  I don't know what you mean by "my team."  I didn't realise someone had drawn up teams. 

Moreover, I don't know how you can proclaim anything about the bad results of the past 40 years being a function of a free-market economy in the U.S. when one hasn't existed.  So if you want to cry in your beer about what's gone wrong, you ought to look to the overcooked regulations, back-alley deals, and enviro-fascism that has thoroughly constrained economic liberty.  I'm a self-sufficient entrepreneur, so I get this stuff pretty well.  None of the current state is a function of laissez-faire, mon ami.

Thump on, Jethro.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 19:44 | 2114761 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

Like it or not America over the last 50 years has slowly morphed from closer to what the founding fathers had hoped for to heading in a direction not dissimilar to China. The environmental laws are becoming laughable, labor laws are becoming less restrictive and overseen due to red tape and lack of manpower, the govt is already corrupt and I would argue that America is not as Democratic as many think.

The U.S.A of old is not the U.S.A of today nor the future.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 20:11 | 2114825 Bwahaha WAGFDSMB
Bwahaha WAGFDSMB's picture

The USA of old was probably nothing like we immagine either.  Given the huge difference between present reality and what most people think, what are the odds that our perception of history is not even more skewed?

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 20:13 | 2114834 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

Your right it was in Black and White on my tv and Leave to Beaver had me growing up thinking everything was gonna be ok - Pleasantville like.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:22 | 2113908 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

In addition to pegging their currency artificially low to the $ which gives them unfair export advantage. 

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:32 | 2113971 Saro
Saro's picture

What you mean to say, of course, is that China is producing a shit-ton of goods for US consumption in return for worthless IOUs that will never be paid back, and that somehow this is a great deal for China but terrible for the US.

We can stop it any time we want:  just stop selling worthless IOUs.  What's that, you say?  Indefinite deficit spending is the only thing propping up the massive bubble that is the hallmark of western economies, and without that the whole thing would come collapsing down around our heads in a microsecond?

Well, then.  Thank any god you profess to believe in that the Chinese are there to buy the bullshit we're peddling.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 17:37 | 2114313 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

And the U.S's constant printing is in no way currency manipulation.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:25 | 2113937 Saro
Saro's picture

China is able to undercut U.S. companies because American workers are pussies who demand everything in the world and thereby priced themselves far, far out of the market.  Then we get to act surprised and appalled that no one wants to buy our overpriced crap and we desperately look around for someone to blame.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:10 | 2113838 suteibu
suteibu's picture


Two Japanese auto suppliers have agreed to pay more than half a billion dollars in criminal fines for a price-fixing conspiracy in the sale of parts to U.S. automakers, the Justice Department announced Monday.


Yazaki Corp. agreed to pay $470 million (¥35.84 billion), the second-largest criminal fine obtained for an antitrust violation. The second company, Denso Corp., agreed to pay a $78 million fine. Four Yazaki executives, all Japanese citizens, will serve up to two years in U.S. prison as part of the deal to plead guilty to one felony count.

So...American companies can't even compete when the prices are rigged too high?

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:15 | 2113866 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Classic monopolistic behavior.  Destroy your smaller competition by pricing too low, then price fix too high with the one or two other large companies who are left standing.  

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 17:05 | 2114174 Saro
Saro's picture

If your price is higher than your competitor, you're gouging.
If your price is lower than your competitor, you're dumping.
If your price is the same as your competitor, you're price fixing.

To the statist fucktard, all prices not sanctioned by our current Dear Leader are illegal.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 17:38 | 2114318 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

To the Ayn Rand fucktard unicorn free market believer, oligarchs will behave themselves if not regulated by government despite massive historical evidence to the contrary.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:19 | 2114484 Saro
Saro's picture

You realize that the oligarchs use the regulations you so stridently push for to prop up their monopolies at our expense, right?

But sure, keep campaigning to grant them more weapons for their arsenal. I guess your theory is that they are bound to use one of those weapons in your favor at some point?  (And you accuse me of chasing unicorns . . .)

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:37 | 2114539 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

 You realize that by taking away the corrupt regulators rather than replacing them you would simply be taking out the middle man for your oligarchs, right?  But keep campaigning for non-elected oligarchs to take control and be allowed to run amok.  I guess your theory is that the oligarchs would play nice and work in your favor at some point if they no longer had to bribe corrupt politicians.  I'll take elected leaders and the checks and balance of our Constitutional Democracy over your Randian wild west any day.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:49 | 2114565 Saro
Saro's picture

No corporation can force me to buy their products, unless they get their puppets in DC to pass a law saying I must or pass laws that eliminate all competition.

As for your "elections", who did you vote for to head the FDA?  It wasn't one of those CEOs from the Big Pharma revolving-door, was it?  No matter, I'm sure he'll put your interests and the interests of the American people above those of his corporate backers.

(Say, isn't it weird how BIG pharma companies are these days?  The FDA should look into that. *snort*)

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 19:07 | 2114628 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Just keep pointing out that it's not perfect as your sole argument for throwing it all out in favor of the oligarchs.  Do you think the oligarchs would not employ force if given the kind of power you desire them to have?  Do you think it's just by chance that throughout all of human history we've had Kings, Princes, Dear Leaders, Tribal Chiefs, Lords, Barons, Knights, etc?  Power and force will find a way if given the chance.  There were company towns in the early 1900's that had their own police, jails, banking systems, etc.  The few people who ran the place did quite well.  Everyone else, not so much.  

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 05:55 | 2115757 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture


Do you think it's just by chance that throughout all of human history we've had Kings, Princes, Dear Leaders, Tribal Chiefs, Lords, Barons, Knights, etc?  Power and force will find a way if given the chance.


Ah yes, and you of course, believe that Big Brother is a benevolent solution to keeping the bad guys under control -- Bwahahaha!

Evil does not arise only from evil people, but also from good people who tolerate the initiation of force as a means to their own ends.  In this manner, good people have empowered evil throughout History.

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 05:51 | 2115755 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Hmm, so your argument rests on the notion that "good" regulators are not in place and if we could just find the "right" people (i.e., the ones that "care enough!") to regulate us, they would put all these ivy-league businessmen in jail -- good luck with that.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:10 | 2113840 Saro
Saro's picture

Economic illiteracy going strong, I see.

"How dare China shoot us both in the right foot through tariffs!  We're going to shoot us both in the left foot to teach them a lesson!"

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:11 | 2113842 mktsrmanipulated
mktsrmanipulated's picture

end of the day eur usd up....what fucking joke

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:13 | 2113857 ATG
ATG's picture

Net result of central planning = More BQ's:

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:14 | 2113858 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Snake eating it's own tail.  Full power into the coming collapse, the sooner the better.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:14 | 2113861 pine_marten
pine_marten's picture

Get ready for some world class lip service!

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:15 | 2113868 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

As my screen name suggests, I'm an older guy. In the '60s, the people today which call themselves "liberal", "progressive", "democrat" etc.; we simply called them what they were...........communists.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:18 | 2113887 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Go Red Team!  By that I mean you are an idiot.  

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 09:31 | 2115931 prole
prole's picture

If you hate freedom and the free market so much, and everyone has a right to their own opinion. If you adore government and worship the insight and the enforcing arm of the state, why don't you get thee hence to North Korea or Cuba? In NK and Cuba you won't have to deal with pesky free markets, no Randians in NK! It would be your Shangri-La! No need to thank me, I have just directed you to your realized Heaven on Earth!

If there were a free market free country which was willing to let me in and not kidnap or kill me I would escape there yesterday not today.

You should go with Cuba, it's warmer.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:17 | 2113880 optimator
optimator's picture

What a surprise, they're a few minutes early today. 

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:20 | 2113892 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Yes, fuck China.....but also fuck Richard Fisher of the Dallas Fed, who also fanned flames on the trade deficit fire when he instituted polices (made by big corporations and bankers in a secret room) that devalued the dollar and made China a much more attractive place for companies to save money (doesn't hurt than Chinese workers aren't allowed to think; remember, most corporations would prefer the Communist setup rather than the free market one).

Nice to also knew we all found out about this 4-5 years after the fact thanks to the hold put on Fed Reserve transcripts. 

As we learn in Dylan Ratigan's book, "Greedy Bastards", about the FOMC meeting, the policy-making body of the Federal Reserve:

Richard Fisher had a complaint about China.  As revealed in the transcripts of the December 2005 meeting (released in 2010). Fisher was bitter about the enormous quantity of Chinese goods flowing into America.  He pointed out that this was creating, "disinflation", or lowering prices and wages for Americans, and that the CEOs he was talking to were frustrated about the tide of goods and services coming into the country.  Except that Fisher wasn't griping that there were too many Chinse imports; he was angry that there weren't ENOUGH exports!  Even though China had built special export-only ports for shipping goods out of China, the American ports can't absorb what China wants to sells us because of what he called, "work rules" - in other words - unions, being "slow to adjust".  This presented a huge problem, Fisher continued, because it was blocked his CEO contact from outsourcing as much work abroad as quickly as possible.  In his words, "they weren't exploiting globalization enough"

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:20 | 2113901 besnook
besnook's picture

it is much easier to nuke the chinese, reduce its population by half, permanently relegate it to third world status, force them to use the dollar as their currency,  bring industry back to the usa because the usa is number 1, rebuild it like a marshall plan then rinse and repeat. the perfect business plan. build it. make them pay for it. blow it up, again. then rebuild it. make them pay for it..........

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:26 | 2113943 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

an example of the brilliant outside the box thinking that has this great soon to be wasteland where it is at current...

pure genious i tell ya...

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:26 | 2113940 dtwn
dtwn's picture


"Here's a thought: perhaps the US would run a surplus if it provided quality pieces at affordable prices that could compete with China-made products?" --Tyler

Personal anecdote:  I am a graduate student with a limited income, drive an older Nissan Maxima.  It needed new axles.  I do all the work on the car myself (because I enjoy it and won't/can't pay anyone $100hr for something I can do myself).  So, axles from autozone (made in China) about $60 each, total $120.  Axles from Raxles (made in USA) are about $250 each, total $500.  Now, Raxles are top-of the line so it may not be a completely fair comparison, but there are simply no other options available.

So my choices are:

A)Chinese parts $120

B)American parts  $500

C)Continue to drive on torn CV joint boots until catastophic failure going 70mph endangering myself, passengers, and others on the road.

I chose A.  The chinese made axles appeared to be well constructed and have been working just fine. Given a choice, I probably would have paid more for a US made part, but simply couldn't swing $500.

Interestingly the next parts to go in are waterpump (china) and thermostat (germany).  That was the shocker, a part for a Japanese car made in Germany.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 16:33 | 2113979 sethstorm
sethstorm's picture

Real quotes please, not canned ones that steer to a Chinese supplier.

Either way, you make a good argument for the tariff on China/deep cut on US so that the prices are effectively swapped.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:57 | 2114593 Saro
Saro's picture

Being that the "deep cut" in the US price can't happen without subsidies (which is just charging everyone in the US the difference), your tariff solution is to make both options unaffordable.  Good call.


Wed, 02/01/2012 - 06:01 | 2115761 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Why not tariffs?

"Economics in One Lesson", ISBN:  978-0-517-54823-3, by Henry Hazlitt

Read and learn.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!