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In Landmark Case, Greek Court Writes Off Employed Bank Customer's Debt
Think filing for bankruptcy is the only way to get debt discharge? Think again, at least in Greece. While previously we have reported that Greek courts had written off "untenable" debts of unemployed Greeks owed to local banks, Kathimerini describes a landmark case which may have profound implications for the indebted country, in which a fully employed woman has had the bulk of her debt written off. From Kathimerini: "In what could turn out to be a significant ruling for Greeks suffering from the economic crisis, a court in Hania, Crete, has become the first in the country to order that the majority of the debt owed to banks by someone still in full employment be wiped out. Sunday’s Kathimerini understands that the Justice of the Peace Court in Hania based its decision on a 2010 law that allows judges to give protection to people struggling to meet their financial commitments. Until now, the legislation has only been used to give debt relief to unemployed people or those with no substantial income." This means that virtually every indebted person in Greece, regardless of employment status will rush into court rooms, demanding equitable treatment and a similar debt write down. It also means that the Greek bank sector, already hopelessly insolvent, is about to see its assets, aka loans issued to consumers, about to be written off entirely. And since the ultimate backstopper of the entire Greek financial system is the ECB, the creeping impairments will have no choice but to impact, very soon, the mark-to-market used by both the ECB and the various national banks. Finally, how long before other courts in Europe express solidarity with their own citizens and proceeds with similar resolutions?
On the specifics of the write off:
in the Hania case, the court ruled in favor of a full-time civil servant. The divorced woman, who has three children, asked to be given protection after her banks refused to offer her new terms for combined loans of 112,000 euros. The unnamed woman explained that she did not have any assets she could sell to pay off her debt.
In its ruling, the court deemed that the woman, who has moved in with her parents, needs 350 euros a month to cover her own costs but that the rest of her earnings could be distributed equally among the three banks she owes money to. The judge deemed that this process should last for four years, meaning the woman would pay back some 30,000 euros and the remaining 82,000 would be written off.
And the implications:
Thousands of people have already appealed to the courts for protection under the 2010 law but legal experts believe the decision in Hania may lead to a new wave of appeals by Greeks who still have jobs but are unable to repay their loans.
Needless to say, this simply means that as locals realize that a domino effect in which bank assets are written down will necessitate a collapse of bank balance sheets, and the asset side of the ledge will be unable to support deposits held by local banks. Which is unfortunate as December saw the first modest signs of a rebound in Greek deposits, which rose modestly from €173 billion to €174 billion following years of consecutive declines.
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Code blue! Nurse, bring the crash cart!
So which lucky German gets to take over that debt?
The Banking Cabal is not going to be happy about this one.
The judge might end up swimming with the fishies in Souda Bay.
Seems to me that this woman would have been in debtor's prison 100 years ago, not walking away with her debts obsolved. Seriously?
You want austerity? This is where the "State" should get it's labor force, throw all of the credit junkies in jail and let them work off their debts. No more pensions, no more fat bennies. Sorry folks you're on your own....
I'm guessing the huge organ your name refers to isn't the one between your ears....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p47fEXGabaY
It sounds to me like an insolvent person filed for Bankruptcy protection. The horror. Next.
I'd like a pound of flesh please...
Charity, fuck it.
How the hell is anyone supposed to get their money back in Greece? All you have to do is sit on your arse, get fired and have your debts wiped.
Hang on, now you don't even need to do that. All trade based on lending should now effectively cease...
It sounds to me like an insolvent person filed for Bankruptcy protection. The horror. Next.
Hang about. If I file in Greece, does that also apply to debts owed in other parts of the EU?
If it does all I can say is Athens is nice this time of year, or so I'm told...
@memyselfiu
Nice 8th grade insult. Tell you what Chief, I'll give you an example of real stupidity to set you straight:
Stupid is siding with the ignorant fool who believed that Government free lunches would never end. And worse, acted upon that lousy assumption by contractually agreeing to carry massive debt obligations all while assuming that nothing bad could EVER happen that could endanger their ability to pay. That is stupid, and that is your position.
It is called honoring a contractual obligation, ever hear of it? And don't give me; "the Banks (or Government) are doing it so it's ok to reneg" If we don't accept that crap excuse from our kids, we can't accept it anywhere.
People failing to uphold their individual responsibilites is what caused this mess. We can't advocate for more of that as a solution unless you really do want a full on global collapse which will be cool to watch for... about 72 hours. Then everyone's life changes for the worst on an indefinite timetable.
Perhaps it's time to have many contracts re-written, so they provide a more equitable result for all? For instance, why should people pay double the purchase price (principal + interest over 30 years) of a home, just so they can have a home that they can call their own after that 30 years of payment? I understand there is a cost to the bank for lending out that money, but seriously - does it need to be that much?
Just because the contracts are written like that now doesn't mean they always have been, nor does it mean they should be written like that.
Double the money you borrowed over 30 years equals around 3% a year (or less on a compound basis).
So how much would you ask to lend your earnings to your neighbour ?
Less than 3% ? If you say yes, I call bullshit.
Hey, the way I see it as intrest rates are designed to define risk. It seems to me the dumb ass is the "quasi" private bank that lent the money in the first place to a person or a government or another bank or any other commercial risk....they miscalculated the risk dramatically period...Why? Because they have the government telling them what they have to do with their "private" capital. Same shit with the government in the US, Fannie Freddie it is all one big moral hazzard circle jerk..In case you have not noticed this yet....."Banks" or what ever you want to call them are not private enterprises anymore...they are "protected" institutuions or extensions of government which launder money for the governments they represent at the same time trying to balance the "needs" of the private economy when it comes to the expansion and contraction of credit all the while enriching themselves at the fiscaly responisble's expense. Banks are basically a form of government sanctioned legalized plunder, so excuse me for saying this but it takes two to create moral hazzard and they have done such a fine job of it in Europe with the Banks being treatied like a fukin public utility...The US is in the same shape if not worse, it just looks less fragmented and more hopeful in the US because we are not as messed up politically as in Europe and we have the Chief of Moral hazzard in Charge at present at the Federal Reserve trying to force money to flow where it really should not go right now from a purely economic standpoint. Prices are better than central planners at clearing markets so the Banks need to relesae the inventory and let the chips fall where they may. How can you possibly think that a monetary Union could happen before you had some kind of fiscal union binding "All States" together in one great big circle jerk of a ponzi like we have here in the good ole US of A.....? With every Central bank on the planet having no restraint what's to stop the next credit binge???? They didn't seem to have a fuckin clue about the last big one with housing in the US did they? No, cause they don't care about bubbles. All they care is about doing what their political lap dogs tell them to do ...Or else... So Banks are complicit in the whole thing..so don't be fooled by the whole the devil made me do it story that Jamie Dimon or Lloyd Blankfein would give you. They are men or at least they claim to be so if they see the moral hazzard with the government doing what they have done to Banking then Why the fuck are they not using the pulpit to point the finger at Government and the moral hazzard of the entire system? Because they would be out of a job because they are terrible managers of risk and they have no morals themselves....
Is that going to include The Donald, CEO's of bailed out banks and other corps? Or is your debtors prison only going to be for the little people - so as to keep costs "down"?
I'm with you 100%.
Lazy credit sucking crybaby socialists are the real evil. They'll take whatever is being handed out, and when the handouts end, they'll steal. Now it appears that when the stealing ends, they just go to court to have the debt removed legally--so they are free to once again find a place in the handout line up.
Unions make me sick.
*debt prison*? are you seriously advocating this?
this is not one or two bad apples. if the majority of citizens are struggling to repay their debt burden,
then the banks and mortgage lenders wantonly and massively mispriced risk and need to eat their shirts.
Bravo. at the same time institutions and state corporations need to be privatised to trim excess fat
and jobs must be created in infrastructure to restore productivoty and employment, but the key here
is choice. some may decide to go into business on their own, and for that you need sensible credit,
which means writing off the inflated toxic crap.
the consumer paidgood interest, for the privilege of the banker taking on the risk. debt prison? -ok
it's not a crime to be a consumer filled with hopium. however it certainly is a cime (fraud is a felony)
to willfullly inflate the consumer's credit capacity, to lie about it's rating when you retrance the CDO,
to turn around it short it up the backside while selling it as gold to happless pension funds. all are frauds.
so if you wangt to jail anybody, start with the bankers. the broke their codes of conduct and the law.
Vaporization, it's not just for cockroach bankers!
Jubilee time?
2112
2012 2012 2012 2012
2012 Cockroach Vaporization ACTA 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzjZojgW-KI
of the
New World Order
War
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FukSgy2rCno
The Social System is a complete farce, I pay hundreads of euros per month in Health insurance fees(the mandatory minimum) now that I went to a Dentist I had a choice of either Paying hundreads more(per tooth) for premium materials and care or go with the government refunded (toxic)crap that would fall out after a few months and/or give me cancer(this is pretty much how the Doctor described it to me).
So in effect I pay thousands of euros per year so that unemployed bums here in Germany(and soon all over Europe) can get Free Healthcare, FUKC THIS SHIT!
The "Social System" really is social ... for those that operate it.
#1 For every ONE doctor in Germany , there is at least ONE Civil Servant employed.
#2 For every ONE person working on the Rhine , there are THREE Civil Servants employed ( Rheinschiffahrtsamt ).
BTW ... #1 was mentioned by the Press Speaker for the NRW Doctors Association on TV a few days ago.
I consider the number to be AT LEAST DOUBLE.
FWIW
When you pay the minimum you get the minimum
suck it up.....George Washington had woden teeth.
Not when your minimum is 15% of your total income(before taxes), if I didn't have to pay it my cash on hand would go up by 28%! and than I could easily afford the best dental health care money can buy(but now I have to choose, how ironic is this!)
Actually this is incorrect, John Greenwood who was Washington's Favorite dentist made several sets of false teeth for him but they were not wooden. Instead they were made from hippopotamus and elephant Ivory. None of Washington's false teeth were ever wooden.
azannoth, read Kotlikoff's book The Coming Generational Storm. He talks about this very thing...no real access to health care anymore. Same is happening in usa where M/M pays so little to doctors, I read fewer and fewer will take those medicaid or medicare patients. So although these people have "insurance" they have no meaningful access to health care anymore.
Ironic.
it's a shakedown that never cures anything, just keeps you buying overpriced pills for as long as possible.
take back your health:
Natural Cures for Ailments from A-Z - Earth ClinicGreece be fucked.
hell yeah!!!
Funk all bankers bitchez!!!!
thats what ive been talkin bout...................
Stocks crashing....
"we gone turn this mutha out...."
arrows down surely indicates we got some banker jock riding whores on the troll...
ya'll got something to say then step up...dont hide behind the red arrow...punk asses
Now here's one European trend I do hope jumps the pond. I'm loading up the credit cards in anticipation!
While Gingrich and Romney are busily trying to destroy the GOP brand, not all of the Obamas are rushing to take advantage of this political PR debacle.
Michelle Obama, aka Marie Antoinette, frantically trying to get her “piece of the pie” before the Man of Hope is returned to Chicago, is this morning’s happy newsmaker.
The UK Telegraph reports that luxury lingerie chain, Agent Provocateur, boosted its sales by 12.5% after a report ((rumor?) that Michelle spent $50,000 at the store after a recent shopping spree (Agent sells handmade Calais lace corsets for up to ?900), closing off part of Madison Avenue while she shopped.
The White House claims the story is 100% false.
Wouldn't this be better left at the UK Telegraph??
It's spreading throughout the country. It's too late to take it back...
I'm not questioning the worth of the article; I'm questioning its relevance both to my comment and ZH's article. Can you elaborate?
Just thought you might have been interested in how the pros do it, while “loading up the credit cards in anticipation!” I don’t know if Agent Provocateur sells men’s lace underwear, but I’m told they do take credit cards…
Well, it's the thought that counts. I'm more likely to stock up on various types of metals, although maybe there would be room for a manthong or three...
America is just downright mean.
For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country. And not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change. And I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction.Michelle Obama
Michelle Obama
We're going to make America skinny again, one way or the other!
its time to default on the debt and bankrupt some banks already... what are people waiting for ??
waiting for the courage to be free at any cost.....
Freedom is scary to most people. Most people are like cattle in a feedlot. Even if the gate to the freedom of the pasture were left open, they would remain in the feedlot. They know nothing else and the unknown is some scary shit to them!
'The unnamed woman explained that she did not have any assets she could sell to pay off her debt.'
Luckily we have the ingenuity of hyper-hypothecation so we might run out of collateral but not promises.
another reason to accumulate gold on the down low. At some point when the reset comes you'll have no assets of record, this way maybe you'll qualify to be a sorta out patient fema camp patron. Check in for some grub and clothes and check out for the blow and hookers.
i am constantly bemused by the way ZH produces interesting material, then just makes a joke of itself with its excess. before extrapolating this story to 'ECB to pay for the bank debts of every Greek citizen', do you think that maybe a decision by a JP in Outer BuFu state in Greece, might perhaps be overturned or limited by some later process in the Greek court system??
You just described the EXACT same event that Tyler did, genius.
In other words, Tyler speaks of one side of the fight this will create, while you speak of it from the opposition's perspective.
See, it's not the action, but as always, the reaction that matters. Which, I'm guessing, is why Tyler chose to make this post.
Thanks for playing along.
Maybe, but every judge in Greece has got to be thinking "uh-oh" right about now.
weird that one cant delete posts here. like when you accidently hit the Save button twice..
They're just softening up the world so it won't seem so bad when they have to take a 100% haircut.
"But we're just doing what we offer every Greek citizen"
Greek courts protecting the citizens from the banks ?
Say hello to "The End of Credit".
say hello to end of banksta scam in Crete. If a bank GIVES no credit it dies, as it will lose its clients and lose its margins. Its the banks that will have to justify their claims; burden of proof changes the aisle. Social factors take prime over financial factors. About time that financial rape is regulated by justice. America should learn from this.
Justice? You seem to be forgetting that all of this rape is legal, including the murder of the private banking industry, which is unwanted competition in the game of CB capital accumulation.
You won't get me crying for the private banking industry in a country like Greece. The best thing to do today is to create local money printed privately backed up by a privately funded financial guaranty and use it to buy local. A lot of towns are now printing local money in association with other commercial partners, thus avoiding depositing money in local banks. When you get to that point you know that public sentiment is not in favour of private banks. Legal you say, and to the benefit of bankers, I won't cry for banks ever.
Justice is not a question of strict obedience of apparent legalese but of analysing the background content of intent and crony collusion that this could involve. Rules are easy to bend when you have the inside track. True Justice is revealing that through inquest.
+1000 Falak pema,
CB have destroyed the buying power of fiat currencies while driving cost of good's and services through the roof. Fiat player's take outrageous risk, if they fail then ask the same tax paying population to burder the expense of bail out's.
Fuck bank's. We need sound money now, enough of the monopoly money ploy.
I think the proper term to use over the last day or two would be "debt vaporized".
I'm sure Europe will put a positive spin on this, maybe another rumor about how the creditors are almost signing a deal.
This judge will have an unfortunate accident, maybe food poisoning? car accident?
If he does, it will be a very tragic event.
Hot tub?
Or have a charming encounter with a maid in a New York/Athens' hotel, leading to the usual consequences?
Polonium 210 in his tea.
love the greeks..just when the french and germans think they have em by the balls..wam the greeks pull a "Crazy Ivan"..best damn scammers on the planet. I am in awe..if only in the USA we had such a judge. (we do but he is only for the elite like Corzine the most pure)
Worldwide Jubilee!
The judge is a JP so he's a local. I wouldn't be surprised if the woman knew the judge socially in the community.
So... you're saying she's part of the Criminal Just Us System?
The Greek supreme court should write off all of Greece's national debt under this ruling.
meanwhile in the United States of Bitches.........
"Freddie Mac, the taxpayer-owned mortgage giant, has placed multibillion-dollar bets that pay off if homeowners stay trapped in expensive mortgages with interest rates well above current rates. Freddie began increasing these bets dramatically in late 2010, the same time that the company was making it harder for homeowners to get out of such high-interest mortgages."
http://www.propublica.org/article/freddy-mac-mortgage-eisinger-arnold
but hey, what's snooky wearing today??????
This is i) a de minimis notional and ii) just an interest rate hedge. You want to see a crazy bet? Look at the Fed's $2 billion DV01. Of course, nobody will touch that one with a 10 foot pole.
well now i got something to brag about to my 92 year old momma...
that being i got a direct response from that dude - Tyler Durden....
ive finally made it!!!! cheers...........
Better yet, it wasn't one of his typical "bitch-slaps."
*presents gold star*
The first rule of Zero Hedge is that you don't talk about Zero Hedge.
Many countries do this, but it is hard to get (as a debtor, since there need to be a "not at fault" situation) and no fun doing years on a minimal budget. Don't think the banks are too concerned about this since they would never see the monies anyways, and it is a rare occasion.
This text is an illusion, bitchez!
A JP in Crete - but the wing of a butterfly.
I love Chania!! Great places to eat in the city.
smart move! Greek can now start selling citizenships and make money to save the country!
personal responsibility is overrated....
Mine gets in the way because I have an opportunity to buy 100 acres but I have to heavily leverage myself to do so. My worry is that if the shtf in slow motion and I lose my cash flow, the land and all the money I may have poured into it would be gone with the wind.
So do you take a chance and possibly shit your pants?
If you live in a judicial foreclosure state, take the plunge. Worse case scenario is default, hire a good defense attorney, waste the bank away for a few years, then have to give it up. Even slow motion collapse shouldn't take that long.
Greek personal debt writedowns are priced in!!
End stage of currency collapse? No one has to pay back the fiat money lent them = broken contractrs= busted banks=defaulted bonds=printing lots more fiat=worthless fiat money?
+ =precious metals to the moon!
That may not be as far off as some might think. I'll reserve judgement until this case further unfolds. Meanwhile, back at Davos....
Fire up the Drachma creation machines (if they are not already in operation). Just be sure to add extra zero's to the dies while retooling!
She could have sold her 3 kids into slavery to cover that debt. Or is slavery suddenly illegal in this Enlightened Century?
Too late. The State of Greece has a prior claim which has been rehypotheticated to the EU, which has been rehypotheticated to the ECB, which has been rehypothecated to the BIS, which has been rehypothecated to the IMF, which has been rehypothecated to the World Bank.
However, there are also other claimants (many crossed), so, short of war, it is currently impossible to determine the net outcome. Also, the UN believes itself to hold a claim, though it is still disputed by the feral population.
Sounds like bad news. Screw it, I'm selling my MF Global holdings before it's too late.
If this catches on, well I think the Germans will have to come in with a big old can of Whup Ass. WW III here we come. I take the Germans and give 10 points.
That is what the Obama Administration wants to do here. Hence the Freddie Mac story in NPR:
NPR: Freddie Mac Betting Against Struggling Homeowners (DeMarco’s Dual Mandate Problem)
http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com/2012/01/30/npr-freddie-mac-betting-against-struggling-homeowners-demarcos-dual-mandate-problem/
Probably too small to matter, but it points to the lunacy of big government trying to control financial markets.
Isn't this just a simple Chapter-13 bankruptcy plan? She pays what she is able for a few years, and then the remainder is discharged. Why is this so weird? It happens every day in the U.S. Do they not have consumer debt restructuring options in the Eurozone?
Yes you're absolutely right. It would be very similar in the UK but only be three years before being discharged.
But the main thing is that this is a Greek story and therefore it's irresponsible and the cause of all the worlds ill. Americans would NEVER do such a thing.
ZH Cynic
Coming to a United States of America near you.
Don't Americans already pay 1000's per year?
big lol
Talk about a Greek Tragedy.....
Bwah hahah ha. What a great idea though. How about we let it be known that all US consumer debt will be discharged one year from now. Just imagine the GDP boost!!!!! 13 million cars sold? Hell they won't be able to keep up with demand. Housing problem, GONE!!! Unemployment, 0% as everyone will be hired to produce and sell goods. The USA will show 900% growth in the first quarter, EQUITIES TO THE MOON!!!! APPLE TO $1 MILLION A SHARE!!!!
Tell me how that is different from the current Keynesian wet dream going on right now? Other than instead of consumers getting access to unlimited free money, it's the banks.
I think I just figured out Krugman. Everything will be fine as long as everyone gets as much free stimulus as possible, debts be damned.
OPA!
Debt Mules!
.... And the significant difference between this Greek debt ruling and a US Chapter 13 debt ruling is what?
One is Greek, therefore EVIL and one is American which is OK.
The article refers to the woman as a 'full-time civil servant.' Any expectation that similar treatment would be afforded a private-sector "employee?" This might just be the statists taking care of their own and transferring the toxicity to the bottomless ECB.
I will gladly pay you tuesday, for a gyro today
where is the ex- husband ???? ......probably left her with the debt and hooked up with a 19 YO college student.....
I think you are talking about Newt Gingrich, a fine upstanding American.
Very cool!!! "Hey German and French bankers we have a big one for you" Want to get Greeked?
Would like to see the number of people qualified as 'civil servants, or 'teachers'...the latter seems to be the favorite title of those that don't work but collect govt money. Please, the German bankers are big boys, they knew what they were getting into 10 yrs ago at the euro's inception.
The deleveraging cycle has begun.
http://www.bankofgreece.gr/Pages/en/Bank/News/PressReleases/DispItem.asp...
The squeeze between the rock and the hard place makes hard choices, easy. Since the best that Greece can get from the ECB is the hard way to go, they have no choice but to paddle the same boat as their depositors. Obviously, this is a long term survival decision.
http://thedailyclimb.wordpress.com/
if the last four or forty "processes" haven't 'worked' (L0L!!!), we'll just "legislate" a new one, and tell everybody to...
thus spake zaraSquidstra
somehow, i would not be in the least surpriZed if the greeks haven't had about enuf of these geniuses' ideas and "plans" too!
when the pols and their very elections have been captured by the bankster or "technocratic" interests, the closest you'll even get to you money again is looking online to see how much debt your goobermint saddled you with when they robbed you the last time, too...
but, people are certainly free to play in whatever sandbox they choose or are forced into
Something seems fishy here...this woman is a full time public service employee and only making 11,700 euro a year????
Don't assume that full time public service
a) includes doing any work &
b) precludes holding a private sector job (or two).
Your neighbours in Greece don't talk with you, if you honestly pay taxes.
I have client who called me a couple weeks ago excited. He told me that Citi wiped out his $90,000 Equity Line of credit. He didn't even try to modify it, he jsut hadn't made a payment in 2.5 yrs and they forgave him! He called to ask me if I heard of such a thing and to show me the paperwork. I was floored!!!!
The bankers are treating money as if it’s worthless. That’s what happens when something’s given away free. The banks don’t need customer deposits anymore; they have Bernanke. With ZIRP the banks aren’t looking for money, they are not even looking for customers. Nor are they looking for borrowers – because they don’t need the payments. The buildup of reserves indicates the bankers are hoarding their nest eggs, wary of what comes next.
Bernanke has caused the loss of the integrity of the currency. Money is no longer a medium of exchange when neither the banks nor the customers want it.
You can’t trust it.
Of course all this celebration is going to expose soemthing else about Greek women.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/54979999@N08/5248345705/
Looks like Greeks are no fools after all! MAD PROPS!
O/T
Has Anyone noticed how the National Bank of Greece stock gone haywire in an upward trajectory, today from all days?
Did the CDS kicked off prematurely?
Hold the fort! I need to go borrow some money for a Porshe, then can I get my debt written off to!? Yee-ha!
One Big Fat Greek Wipeout.
If the banks have nothing to rely on with nothing coming and going, they are out.
If this shit happens here in the USA and it's Jubilee I tell ya. Think of the money we can pour into Metals instead of parasites demanding payment.
Good. Leave it to the Greek people to effect what their pols and government can't.
Sound like a song.... hmm Cee-Lo Green - "Fuck You".
In Greek and coming to the US. http://youtu.be/17eSUnQ-_ek
Your title is factually wrong Tyler:
In Landmark Case, Greek Court Writes Off Employed Bank Customer's Debt
should be
In Landmark Case, Greek Court Restructures Employed Bank Customer's Debt
There is a clear distinction.