The Latest Greek Creditor Negotiations Update: Coercive, Yet Not, At The Same Time

Late night media is abuzz with two reports, one from the NYT and one from The Telegraph, which unfortunately confirm Credit Suisse's decision to ignore the Greek situation entirely due to openly contradictory news.

• From The Telegraph: Greece prepares to give way to banks to secure debt deal
• From The NYT: Greek Premier Says Creditors May Be Forced to Take Losses

Which, of course, is the oldest trick in the book - when in doubt, leak opposing news, in this case whether or note the Greek default will be coercive or not, in hopes the good news trumps the bad, and nobody notices.

Here are some extracts from either:

Sources close to the bondholders told The Daily Telegraph there was "enough movement" from officials representing Greece, the International Monetary Fund (IMF), European Central Bank (ECB) and the European Union (EU) to persuade Mr Dallara to meet with them.

Bondholders are resisting pressure to take losses of more than 50pc on their bonds. They are also pushing for higher coupons on fresh Greek paper.

The IIF, which has been representing private sector bondholders during the tortuous talks, said it was committed to "seeking an agreement on a voluntary debt exchange for Greece" and appealed to officials to "work in good faith toward this end with a sense of urgency".

And the other.

Taking direct aim at hedge funds and other private holders of Greece’s debt, Prime Minister Lucas Papademos says he will consider legislation forcing the creditors to take losses on their holdings if no agreement can be reached in critical negotiations scheduled to resume Wednesday.

Mr. Papademos said that if Greece did not receive 100 percent participation in a program in which bondholders would voluntarily write down $130 billion from Greece’s unwieldy $450 billion debt, the country would consider passing a law to require holdouts to take losses.

“It is something that has to be considered in the light of expectations about the degree of the participation to be achieved,” Mr. Papademos said. “It cannot be excluded. It is contingent on the percentage.”

At this point we would settle for both being true and this whole politically coordinated farce just ending so real investing can actually resume.

Comments

[ACP]

You don't have to, but if you don't you die...BITCHEZ!

[wandstrasse]

you must, please!

[Ahmeexnal]

Great article on MW

Jan. 18, 2012, 12:01 a.m. EST

Exiting the euro; a female perspective

By Tina Stow, CFE

"First, do no harm." - Hippocratic Oath.

The Wolfson Economics Prize is about to close January 31, 2012. Sponsored by Lord Wolfson of Aspley Guise in the UK it's a 250,000 Sterling prize (roughly 400,000USD) to the economist (or any other person) who can offer a solution to the legal, economic and political ramifications of a country exiting the euro.

I thought to address limitations that will impact the contest to its detriment and to offer the female perspective, which is very under-represented amongst economists.

First - The prize is addressed primarily to economists. I counter that economists will not provide a workable solution. They will submit many ideas and will have much to say: plenty of theory, not-so-much practicality, even less imagination. Economists at best can offer an interpretation from their perspective as male, white, affluent, argumentative, short-term, and risk-prone individuals of how a set of events may unfold. No one is able to take into consideration all the varied parts that make up the real world.

Second - Let's not forget that economists created the euro in the first place.

The euro was first "wholesaled" to Europe by Germany (and France) to make German exports cheaper to the rest of Europe. In the early 1990's, Portugal, Spain, Greece, Ireland, Romania, and some of the smaller European nations were strong manufacturers of all types of goods on the very, very cheap. Germany had manufacturing competition in its back yard and by proposing the creation of a new common currency, was primarily looking out for its own self-interest. Even at the last Bundestag speech in December, Angela Merkel concluded her speech with "The path ahead is long and it is difficult but it is the right path for the joint good of a strong Germany in a strong European Union, for the benefit of the people in Germany and in Europe." Germany is always first.

In essence, Germany devalued the expensive German Mark, called it by a new name, killed the competition in it's back yard, and put the smaller countries on the hook for re-payments of mortgages, bonds, and other financial lovelies for decades to come because the smaller countries were naïve to trust and oh-so desperate to join the high-class, posh, elite and exclusive world of the European Big Boy's Club. Fresh from the euro's conquest of Europa, the "retail" push began onto the rest of the world. "The euro will replace the US dollar as the next reserve currency!" went the rallying cry. I ask the reader, has this part of the plan come to pass?

The conventional wisdom is that economists and their financial modeling can solve all our financial problems. I beg to differ. From my perspective, it looks like this: an entire continent buying hook, line and sinker, the sales pitch that the creation of a new single currency (the euro) will make their economies more globally competitive against the US dollar, no safety net required. To turn now to the very same economist for help is the equivalent of - pardon the expression- "running home to momma".

Third - Economists and politicians (especially in the US) love the laissez-faire argument but the past three years have proven that capitalism run amok does not work. Plunder by trade has replaced plunder by raid but plunder by any other name is still plunder.

Fourth - Human behavior can't be formulated. The behavior of crowds and the reaction of people will not fit into a precise, predictable and objective formula.

Thus, the basic premise of the competition, that an economist will be able to formulate a way out of the euro is flawed precisely because it is based only on the intense economic passions of companies, institutions, organizations and individuals with lots of "skin in the game". A game played with great hubris at the expense of millions and lost miserably.

I ask - Do economists follow a code of ethics? And I don't mean just simple disclosures of financial ties or conflict of interest guidelines. Disclosures are merely disclosures. The finance profession also has financial-ties and conflict-of-interest disclosure requirements. Disclosures never prevented actions or transactions. These are not high enough standards for a profession that can impact for better or for worse on the monumental scale. What I mean is something more along the line of what the medical profession uses: "First, Do No Harm." I'd like to see economists adopt the First, Do No Harm Oath as a pre-requisite for practicing. All those in favor, vote with your LIKE.

Is there a solution, a way out? Always!

1. Stop acting like corporations passing down the cost of poor economic and financial decisions on the consumer. Be better. One can blame both sides for their actions.

2. At best, forgive all debt in its entirety and permanently.

3. At worst, re-characterize the loans, or mark-to-market the values, collect a one-time payment no matter how large or small in euro's and move on without the smaller countries.

4. Allow smaller countries to work out for themselves' what currency they wish to adopt or how they wish to move forward. Germany's way is not Greece's way or Portugal's way ...etc.

5. Keep it simple.

6. Sell good-will.

Most important, the average European’s trust in the euro as a relevant currency is beginning to show signs of fraying. Just this week Reuter’s ran a story on how 55% of Italians no longer trust the euro as a single currency and 31% would prefer to see the comeback of the lira.

It doesn’t matter that Italy’s debt is 120% of GDP. It doesn’t matter that Italian politicians have pushed through austerity programs dictated by Germany. It does matter that Italians are used to and have historically lived with high-debt. And it does matter that when ordinary people are fed up, they start revolutions. Think Arab Spring or even French Revolution.

My call: When in Rome, do like the Romans - watch for unrest and stand ready to say arrivederci to the euro.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/exiting-the-euro-a-female-perspective-2...

[Michael]

Out of the $500 billion of Greek debt, How much of that debt will be discharged after Greece defaults? Will $300 billion dollars be discharged and written off or will more than that be charged off in bankruptcy?

GDP: €0.2 tn Foreign debt: €0.4 tn

€38,073 Foreign debt per person

252% Foreign debt to GDP   166% Govt debt to GDP

[roy10]

They are hoping to discharge around 100B - 130B Euros. It will not be ebough - more haircuts will come in 2-3 years.

[Michael]

Thanks for Info Roy.

Just wait till they get around to figuring out how much Spanish and Italian debt that will need to be discharged.

[roy10]

Yes - It's tough to tell with Spanish debt since nobody knows exactly how big it is (with province and bank debt), but in the case of Italy, I’m guessing that haircuts would be somewhere between 30% of GDP, or 500B Euros (best case) and 60% of GDP, or $1T Euros (worst case). We’ll probably see this unfolding in sometime in 2013.

[Michael]

Instead of using the word "haircuts", which I'm getting very board with, I'd prefer to use the the words  "Discharges", "Discharged", and "Discharge", used prolifically when referring to the debt of sovereign countries that will be written off.

"Wright off" and its forms are good too.

[jeff montanye]

digging the homonyms!  also "restructure" is a good one, especially regarding bank debt.  "default" "bankruptcy" "collapse" "failure" are all too apocalyptic for the average (not too financially savvy) consumer/possible voter and hence play into the too big to fail control fraud.

[Oh regional Indian]

If a spade is to be called a spade, the article Ahmeenxal shared is spot on, but even it scratches the surface.

WHen the fascists realized that people did not like overt fascism, they "lost" the war and went in. 

Corporations are the new fascist rulers, ruling for the oiligarchy (all business in the current paradigm is tied to Petra-oleum). the EU is the most successful fascist jail.

Hotel california style. Look at that, 15 years of the good life for a life-time in bondage.

Storybook defiition of a faustian bargain.

And no surprise Italy and Germany are in the thick of it (France lost, a looooooooong time ago, 1971 to be exact).

ori

1460-days-ago

[Elwood P Suggins]

"fucked over" says it all.

[aleph0]

Thanks for the article, but : 

"Second - Let's not forget that economists created the euro in the first place."

WRONG ... it was created by "Politicians" , and those that called themselves economists.

The rest of the article is not too bad ... explaining that the DM was too expensive and German debt was already high.

May I suggest you read "Gutes Geld, schlechte Politik" published in 1992 ( Amazon EUR 0.01 ) which is a  sort of biography of ex-Bundesbank director Pöhl by Dieter Balkhausen.

On page 4 , Pöhl says :   "Once this "Euro" comedy is over, they will be renaming the single currency  back to :  Euro-Lira, Euro-Marc, Euro-Franc... etc."  

Just sayin' !

PS:
"Gutes Geld & schlechte Politik: Der Report über die Bundesbank, Schuldenstaat und EG-Währung"
Now EUR 0.46 !

[maxw3st]

Whatever allows the ISDA to escape dealing with a "credit event" that triggers CDS. Markets never reward the majority.

[whaletail]

Ah ha! How quick we forget. A negotiated settlement DOES NOT necessarily equal a credit event:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/farce-complete-isda-finds-50-haircut-not-c...

I, however, have my "Greek Default 2012" party hat on.

[Stack Trace]

Could the market turn down if there isn't a credit event?

[Stack Trace]

Is the bifurcation in the news for localized benefits?

State-side maybe folks see the credit event as a positive. Perhaps an agreement on the the other side of the pond means something positive.

Perhaps trial balloons? See which news works which way? I don't know. Just find this divergence confusing.

[Unprepared]

This all would be old news by tomorrow morning

[chump666]

hahaha how long can this BS keep going?  Mind boggling.  Blame?  The idiots at the IMF/ECB and FED.  Greece should have defaulted 6mths ago.

[The Reich]

Greece should have defaulted 24mths ago!

[youngman]

You are right they SHOULD have defaulted years ago...but WE keep giving them free money...I would hang on as long as we are dumb enough to give them free money...and it is free..because they will NEVER pay it back...its just theft now...

[Calmyourself]

Priced in.. Move along..

[Falcon15]

We do not need to show you credible pricing. This is not the default you are looking for. We are just minding the store. Move along.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzcWPKAv2Ow

[UP Forester]

Roger-Roger....

[Stack Trace]

What is priced in? Credit Event or Non-Credit Event?

Thanks

[UP Forester]

Yes.

[Calmyourself]

Yes+1

[Cult_of_Reason]

However, the country is likely to default anyway, a director of Fitch has warned. Edward Parker, head of the credit rating's sovereign group, told reporters: "It is going to happen. Greece is insolvent so it will default."

Referring to private sector involvement (PSI), he added: "We don't think this PSI is the way to go and we would treat it as a default. It clearly is a default, however they try to spin it."

[BorisTheBlade]

It will default anyway, but by that time nobody will care anymore.

Bondholders are resisting pressure to take losses of more than 50pc on their bonds. They are also pushing for higher coupons on fresh Greek paper.

What a joke, if Greece defaulted right away, most of the same bondholders would take haircuts far in excess of 50pc and would still be happy if they were able to sell anything. Perpetual cycle of insolvency and moral hazard.

[RobotTrader]

ES taking off like a scalded dog on this news.

http://clearstation.etrade.com/cgi-bin/bbs?post_id=9943706

[Teamtc321]

Robotic strap on:

You might need to wipe the baby food off your monitor, ES is up .29% tonight tard 

[Vic Vinegar]

LOL.  Thanks for taking the time to comment as always, RT.

I could get into a long-winded diatribe about how the only people who junk you are only junking themselves (deep!) but why bother?  You are one of the highlights of this site, as always.  

This is the best site in the world and yet it would be even better if you were putting up Contributor articles.

[Mr Lennon Hendrix]

Robo once did.  They were good posts.  Gave us a lot to fight over.

I still junk Robo.  I figure Robo likes it.

[Cult_of_Reason]

What have you been smoking lately Robot?

There are only algos marking up the bids and hitting/collecting the stops.

They will reverse the programs, turn off waving flags and smoking robots, right before European open.

[chump666]

I'd be careful buying into that, traded low into the close.  Plus Shanghai is trailing neg.  Last meltup was on the Asian session highs.  Reality kicked in when bank stocks got slammed.

Still a bull trap.  Not much to go long on at all.  Jan season strength is about to get KO'ed.  Check your VIX charts.

[caerus]

agreed...unconvincing low volume melt up against an apocolyptic economic backdrop...major indices pushing up against historic highs with nothing substantive to support the move...if the insanity continues i wouldn't be surprised if ES flirts with the 1500 region that marked the 2000 and 2007 tops 

[FlyPaper]

Robot!  Glad to see you are back!

[Stack Trace]

Do mean "taking off" as in the dog rolled over and played dead or as in the dog actually died.

[spinone]

Too bad you're not contributing anymore. Robo, I miss the hot chicks.

In all seriousity, you get an undeserved bad reception here.  You're pointing out truth and facts about the market.  Yeah, its a fucked up manipulated market, and its unfair and people are getting cheated.  But if you want to gamble in a rigged casino, or pick up nickles in front of a steamroller, put on your big boy pants.  There's money to be made, when they let you.

It just doesn't feel good anymore, scrambling for the crumbs that fall off the plutocrat table.  I decided to accumulate, not speculate.

[SHEEPFUKKER]

I think about a Greek default like 8 times per minute. 

[spinone]

Howdy, bro.

[Mark123]

Flash back to early October....Europe finally gets it and the stock market rally is on.  Almost 4 months later and they are still getting it.  Wonderful news all round.

[UP Forester]

I thought Groundhog Day was in February....

[SHEEPFUKKER]

I'm pretty sure the little varmit will see it's shadow and then we have 6 more weeks/months/years of this default/no default shit. 

[Stack Trace]

That is a treatable condition. Ever hear of "Low T"?

Meant this for your post above about the 8 times a minute.

[Vic Vinegar]

It's groundhog day every day on Zero Hedge.  But there are worse ways to pass the time.

[Misean]

It's been re-hypothecated.

[FinkPloyd]

With this and 1/10 Trillion LTRO news, perception management aka lies has kicked into a whole new gear. I wonder how long the hopium filled bubble can stay afloat.

A little news for goldbugs that cite asian demand....

http://www.livemint.com/2012/01/17235112/Imports-of-gold-and-silver-to.html?h=B

[Misean]

Looks like the Greeks have used a large wooden horse to block the pass of Thermopylae.

[dick cheneys ghost]

The amount of dis/mis information from MSM is staggering.........

this blog has it well covered.......Greekreporter..........

"Panicked Greeks Hide Cash Under Pools and … Olive Trees"

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2012/01/18/panicked-greeks-hide-cash-under-pools-and-olive-trees/

[bob_dabolina]

There was a good interpretation I just found on twitter about that/ basically politicians lieing and such.

http://the-compass.org/2012/01/18/402/

Which is kinda' funny because I thought they would have shut down for sopa protests...like everyone else.

[candyman]

I dont find either source relevent.

[My cognitive di...]

Hey!

It's after twelve and the lights are still on in here.

I'm just sayin'...

[Mr Lennon Hendrix]

Zero Hedge shutting down to protest SOPA would do less good than if it stays on and releases information that shows the system for what it is.

[BorisTheBlade]

It wouldn't hurt though to convey warmest regards to Mr. Murdoch*.

* Disclaimer: Mr. Murdoch is a registered trademark yada yada, let him and associated trademarks rest in pieces.

[Arkadaba]

I'm sure he doesn't give a shit wether Wiki shuts down or not. Might be nice to have a no internet day thought - no purchases, no clicks .....mmmmm

[BorisTheBlade]

You are right sadly, blackout is pretty much pointless. Better is to boycott anything related to those lobbying for SOPA/PIPA, that would strike where it hurts whether the bill is passed or not. Sadly, won't happen either.

[bob_dabolina]

If yahoo, bing, and google shut down at the same time all hell would break lose.

[Stack Trace]

How would we know if "all hell broke loose"?

[spankfish]

Use dogpile

[Calmyourself]

Scroogle scraper for privacy..

[Questan1913]

I'm feeling really distressed about the terrible plight of the bondholding class.  They have been tireless benefactors to the less fortunate classes and now sovereign governments are treating them horribly.  Oh dear, this is just not right and I am appalled by the injustice about to be done to these good people, who frankly, make the world go around, do they not?  It's horrible.  What if other countries attempt to do the same thing and succeed?  How much more beneficent to mankind could they have been?  They have made huge sacrifices to make our lives better.  And then to be treated like this!  Horrible, shameful, lack of gratitude.  This is really almost beyond belief! 

[candyman]

how may bought a 25 for the 28% return= 1

[eatthebanksters]

We make up the rules as we go...

[Mr Lennon Hendrix]

Did they throw the election?  Or are they just stupid....

Only Two Candidates Qualify for Virginia Primary:  Paul and Mittens

Say goodnight bitchez

[bob_dabolina]

There's 2286 delegates in this race. 

How many has each candidate won?

[ForTheWorld]

How could Greece enact a law that would require a foreign investor to take a loss on a bond they've purchased? The way I understand it, there's a contractual agreement between Greece and the investor which states that the investor will receive X% on top of the principal invested.

I suppose, saying that, any changes could make the contract null and void, which would leave an investor calling on his insurance company, and it would mean Greece officially defaults. That still leaves me wondering how they can force a non-Greek resident to accept their laws?

Am I looking at this in too simplistic a fashion?

[FlyPaper]

Since when does the debtor get to dictate to the lender?  

While this sounds "tough" and is partly for local political consumption, just the mere threat of "I'll use my legislative body to screw you out of your money" - is like wiping your ass with your hand and wondering why your fingers smell like shit.

No one; literally no one (except self-serving bankers and the IMF) will buy Greek bonds under Greek law.   

Amazing.

[chump666]

I am f*cking done with Greece  a micro nothing economy ganged banged by greedy banks.  CDS markets will blow up and the ECB/IMF/FED will try to prop the thing up.  Won't help stocks though. 1-3mths it's going down

But it is China next, going be big news for the markets coming mths. 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-housing-market-to-hit-wider-econo...

[ebworthen]

No Default, order or disorderly, coercive or voluntary, until at least a day before those in power know about it.

News to be released after the NY markets close and right before the Asian markets open a day or two after the decision is made.

[ebworthen]

OT a little, but not really:

Bev Harris on Coast to Coast with George Noory tonight talking about electronic voting machines and fraud.

Most important to me was her mentioning that Germany has decided to get rid of electronic machines as they don't allow the common citizen the ability to verify votes with "unsophisticated" or "non-specialized" knowledge. 

Also, a system technician or administrator will know the votes; in other words they have special access to the computerized machines (votes).

Key quote from her interview with George:

"You cannot secure a computer from it's own administrator."

Not to mention that many of the electronic votes now tabulated are sent to Tampa company owned by another company from Spain.  Oooops.

Let's hope this takes hold here in the U.S.; computerized vote fudging is a lot easier than punch ballots.  With a few keystrokes an admin could change the outcome.  Kind of like Ben printing money in a flash from deep within Eccles Mariner Bldg. with "Ctrl + $".

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

Quote from the webpage:

"The Des Moines Register is now reporting an even greater malfeasance: that the final, certified Iowa result may "never be known." There were several typos, they say. Some precincts will never be reported, they claim"

[spankfish]

I love the smell of Diebold in the morning... it smells like victory!

[Stack Trace]

Greece is the word!

The gift that keeps on giving. A beautiful distraction from the massive twin towers of Debt (Europe and US). They will keep this game going until the system collapses from exhaustion or we all tire of it and start pumping our money back into stoxx and bondz.

[roy10]

This entire farce is absurd. The IIF doesn’t have authority to negotiate for private creditors which are not banks. There is no way that there will be full voluntary participation. This is going towards a hard default and that’s the way it should be.

Greece is doesn’t matter at this point. It’s all about Italy and Spain.

[Sandmann]

Anyone buying Greek Bonds must have researched Greek Default History

The Bottom Line
The history of the Greek financial system is not encouraging to those investors that are hoping that this country avoids defaulting on its sovereign debt obligations.

Read more: http://financialedge.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0911/The-History-Of-Greek-Sovereign-Debt-Defaults.aspx#ixzz1jLAUUSsZ So Caveat Emptor

[Nachdenken]

Whaletail : make that two party hats.  And then a boxful for the next round of parties. 

[Cadavre]

Just looked at gold spot - 20 bucks off close.

Even retail chummers on lame stream are saying hold off - they look scared. Real sacred. Like maybe their ain't enough floating point digit capacity in their CPU registers to contain the massive amount of printing Berskank will need to shovel out the discount window to bleed the dollar of sufficient value to hold the inflation carry up.

The indexes have been, and only been, the bears killing zone for a couple of years (decades?). Buy and Hold has gone the way of analogue recordings - opportunities to be near it are far and few between. Have a feel NYC crude will drip near 90$ soon.

RT has been blacked out for hours - they be calling it scheduled maintenance (and here we thought only the Bloomberg did that every Friday night) - personally leaning to a SOPA statement.

There is one tell in the way VIX/VOX track with HV. Afew weeks back for about 8 or 9 days the percentage for HV tracked within a point of VIX/VOX. Every time that tango occurred before the market threatened a pure correction only to be saved by hungry bears salting the indexes and sleepy dweebs the lame stream hypnotized. Looked at a 12 year chart - there's a lot of "false value pressure" underneath and it looks line the final "high" bubble is `bout to burst - maybe March. Best understanding of the VIX::HV correlation is that equities are trading as derivatives or hedge of their options - just postulato-guess`n but it seem equities jes don't believe they're an asset class no more (like they have a consciousness or sapient beings .. err .. right - time will tell - and all the news on ZH don't appear to be saying a big dozy dose of Thorazine is nigh just around the bend.

[celticgold]

A POX on VIX and VOX

[Outlaw Of The W...]

A trader these days is trading against the zogs who use every opportunity to trade against open interest.

Buy physical pm's and call it a day.

My no brainer trade is to be long physical gold and short gld.  Ive been in this for years.   Waiting for the scamex to be put on lockdown.

[Outlaw Of The W...]

fuck the "jews" in their own filthy asses

[Ghordius]

ohhh... you are so cute! and your avatar is sooo fitting to your current development level...

[Tense INDIAN]

the EURO might not end in 2012...but I dont think they will be that lucky in 2013....

as for the markets ..they dont care...they will be going up and down ..so firget these gloom n doom ...and study the charts

[Ghordius]

well, if it were for all the people living outside the eurozone, the EUR project would not even have started - though perhaps you might want to ask people inside why they still keep it - too bad so many of them don't speak regularly english, eh?

[nolla]

IMF to the rescue, again. Europe up big time, again.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/18/us-markets-global-idUSTRE7BB02...

[LeverShort]

Uncle Ben treating the ZH sheeple like bitchez. Print that shit right under your noses. What default? Hahahahaha

[Dre4dwolf]

There are talks in Greece umong citizens of Crete leaving the greek union and branching off to become its own country again with its own currency. Crete state seceding, my sources : Family there, they said that rumor has it that the representatives in Crete are seriously considering it.

If Crete branches off and leaves Greece it would probably spearhead all the other small states/islands doing the same.

Actually in crete a lot of people are using their own currency and handing eachother IOU's because essentially the Euro is worthless paper in the smaller towns/areas because no one uses them!

[LookingWithAmazement]

Successful auction "bankrupt" Portugal today -- what funding crisis? Don't believe the hype.

[Nipa]

I just dont understand how can somebody buy a greek bond, maturing abr-20, to make 4.6% in interest(action happened yseterday...). Even considering the public buzz saying that they will default mar-20.

What is the rational behind? Are this bonds diferent?

[kralizec]

Quotes might just as well have been "You bend over"!  "No, you bend over!"  "Let's team up and bend them all over!"

(sigh)

[gabbayo]

Bad news are already priced in. Rally on

[Cole Younger]

The trick is to discharge there near term payments on debt and continue to borrow. How else are they going to fund there government and social programs? If pap can't get the money, Greece  falls into a civil war and the EURO is toast. This will continue for decades.