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The Latest Rumor: Fed To Fund IMF, Bypassing Congressional Refusal Of European Bailout

Tyler Durden's picture





 

While we have long been mocking any rumors representing formal attempts to get the IMF's funding to higher level, due to the need for a congressional approval over and beyond what is currently permitted which means any such plan is DOA, one loophole always has been the private bank known as the Federal Reserve, which may, as permitted by its charter since its charter allows it to do pretty much anything even buy Greek and EFSF, not to mention Italian, bonds, lend to the IMF at will. And just as last week demonstrated, when push comes to shove the Fed will always bail out Europe, so tonight German paper Die Welt (which has about the same success rate as Thomas Stolper at predicting the future) had put two and two together and come up with the latest rumor, namely that Ben Bernanke is about to directly bail out Europe using the IMF as an intermediary. Via Reuters, "The Federal Reserve, along with the 17 euro zone national central banks, may help provide the International Monetary Fund with funds that could be used to aid debt-ridden states, a German newspaper said. Die Welt cited sources close to the negotiations as saying the euro zone central banks could pay at least 100 billion euros ($134.2 billion) into a special fund that could be used for programs for nations struggling to control their debts. "Also other central banks, for example the U.S. Federal Reserve, are apparently prepared to finance a part of the costs," the paper said in an advance copy of an article to appear on Monday." That there is not an iota of truth in this article is a given, yet the market will latch on to this latest rumor like a rabid pitbull... until it realizes that by having to resort to such grotesquely made up stories it means that the ECB, which is the only real short-term rescue mechanism for Europe, is nowhere near close agreeing to do what the bulk of Europe's bankers (but not Goldman) demand it do - print.

More:

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner may discuss the idea in the coming weeks when he visits Europe, the paper said.

 

Officials had said on Saturday that talks on the size of loans from euro zone central banks were starting at a technical level after finance ministers from the currency union gave the go-ahead to explore the idea.

 

The idea is for the IMF to be able to match the new firepower of the euro zone bailout fund, which is being leveraged.

 

One senior euro zone official has said that no amount had been discussed at the political level.

 

The euro zone wants to boost the IMF's resources so the fund could provide a credible backstop if Spain and Italy were to need an emergency loan program.

 

Geithner is to hold talks with several European leaders in the coming week and is set to urge them to take decisive action at an EU summit aimed at preventing the euro zone debt crisis spiraling out of control.

Of course, in the 0.01% chance this latest baseless speculation is true, it once again confirms that the traditional mechanism of governance, once which involves popular representation and the associated bells and whistles is completely dead, and has been replaced with one in which a private bank with 10 central planners effectively rules the world, with the simple goal of never seeing even one bank's "assets" be impaired, something which Germany also alluded to earlier when it announced it would let banks not suffer Greek debt haircuts if only they were to agree to the "Neu Anschluss" just that little bit faster.

Germany is prepared to soften language in the euro zone's permanent bailout mechanism compelling bondholders to accept losses in exchange for much stricter budget rules, four sources have told Reuters.

 

The shift would not completely remove the possibility of private bondholders having to accept losses in the future, but it would align the statutes of the European Stability Mechanism more closely with IMF rules, creating a more-level playing field for private buyers of euro zone sovereign debt.

 

The hope is that will reassure private bondholders that they are not being singled out for losses by European policymakers, bolstering their confidence in buying euro zone bonds - and potentially helping Italy and other under-pressure borrowers.

Yet there is one difference: whereas Germany is appealing to Europe's people to voluntarily hand over their freedom and sovereignty to Merkel, the Fed is acting on the assumption that it already has these in hand. Luckily, none of this matters as there is football night... then Dancing with the Stars night... then Jersey Shore night... then rinse and repeat.

 


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Sun, 12/04/2011 - 21:55 | Link to Comment 1000pips
1000pips's picture

Great For Eur/USD. $1.40 in a week !

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:00 | Link to Comment strannick
strannick's picture

Congress can be so damned inconvienient.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:08 | Link to Comment jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Why would the fed need to go through the IMF when it can use swap lines or bury it off balance sheet?  Is the IMF used because of it's high visibility and to send a clear message to the markets?  

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:19 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

probably got some cousins they need to funnel more money to.

As for Congress being inconvenient, they are really too busy getting themselves rich to give a shit about actual legislating

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:15 | Link to Comment sqz
sqz's picture

@jekyll island

Central bank swap lines, particularly the ECB's, requires posting collateral to use.

Since the problem IS the collateral, the swaps are not as useful as you think to solve either the funding crisis or sovereign crisis. At most they are just a substitute for USD funding for those who EZ banks who have seen a funding squeeze on their USD assets.

Loaning funds via the IMF would theoretically (or fantastically?) target the sovereigns, the source of the crisis, directly. Unfortunately, this is not a realistic solution due to the total size of the EZ sovereign debt market - at least EUR 1,600 bn is required per year for EZ debt rollover alone. Also, the IMF was never designed to backstop large countries, i.e. hand out huge loans to countries that make up a large part of the IMF itself. It is largely meant as a vehicle to lend to small or medium countries in times of trouble so that they are forced to accept Anglo-American structural requirements at the same time, such as "free trade" or "liberalisation" or other aspects that make it easier for Westerners to take over their markets and assets. This is why the IMF is called an optical backstop. It is never meant to be actually drawn down significantly, merely look like it could be.

Even if the IMF could somehow miraculously be used for EZ bailout, it cannot be used forever without even more damage being caused. The structural imbalances that exist in the Eurozone would still be there and because the IMF committment would almost certainly have to have a large input from the EZ creditor nations, like Germany, it means the debtor nations have a massive incentive to not follow any austerity or other painful conditions, but instead hold the creditor nations, who are captive with them in the sub-optimal currency area, to ransom with the threat of more damage and default. Nothing would be fixed. In fact, it creates almost ideal conditions for much worse problems.

IMF involvement for large EZ bailouts would be like having Eurobonds without a fiscal union, except now you also directly contaminate/suck-in other non-EZ sovereigns. Even printing, which solves nothing and also adds its own difficulties, would be better since it at least keeps the structural and fiscal problems contained within the EZ for longer.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:17 | Link to Comment topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

A classic nash equilibrium.

Germany is trying to avoid falling in the trap.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:22 | Link to Comment jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

hussman is particularly cogent on this topic this week:  read especially from "we represent the lollipop guild".  http://www.hussmanfunds.com/wmc/wmc111205.htm

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 03:03 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Wake the f*ck up, people.

Zero Hedge is full of diverse but also aware regulars. While we don't agree on all issues all the time, we do tend to see things more accurately than most with the red pill filter assisting us.

The ONLY thing that will harken any sort of significant change in the United States or throw a monkey wrench into the cogs of the machinery marching us on a slow but relentless grind into the assimilated one world borg is if things get painful enough for a majority of the sheeple quickly enough, so they actually take the time to pull their heads out from their asses and do even a modicum of basic, independent research on the whys and whos as to what's turned their little American Dream upside down.

Otherwise, it's all a slow simmer leading to a nice, calm death. No quick boil.

I'll believe real and positive change is afoot when there are tens or hundreds of thousands of protesters marching angrily upon the New York Branch of the Federal Reserve, demanding an end to any private central bank, whatever name it goes by, and a return of the coinage of money to the Congress, as the Constitution mandates.

- Whether Congress screws things up and people over as badly as the private fractional reserve central banksters and those who employ them is another question altogether, but let's get one step done at a time.

The 2nd massive arrangement of swap lines between The Federal Reserve and European Banksters in three short years, barely causing a ripple of reporting or question asking by the Main Lame Ass Stream Media Proxy Puppets or almost all pawns of the Kleptocratic Crony Capitalists in CONgress is merely more incontrovertible proof that there's little hope of any real catalyst for change until another 30 or 50 million people in the U.S. are dumpster diving and eating Alpo.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 06:59 | Link to Comment Gohn Galt
Gohn Galt's picture

I won't believe until citizens are able to govern themselves without intervention.

Democracy is two wolves fighting over who is going to eat the lamb.  Liberty is when the lamb has a shotgun and can kill both the wolves.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 07:58 | Link to Comment Popo
Popo's picture

Exactly.  Although, to put a finer point on it:   Liberty is when a handful of lambs have sniper rifles. 

Shotguns are far too messy, and don't generally create the pervading sense of fear necessary for real change.   Not to mention, they put the lambs in danger.

(Not advocating of course -- just clarifying.)

 

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:04 | Link to Comment Marx_it_2_market.
Marx_it_2_market.'s picture

sqz, I don't understand why the IMF couldn't kick the can down the road for a year or two by giving or loaning that 1.6 Trillion to Europe. That's far less than was given to the financial institutions in 2008-2009.

Your comment that the IMF has mostly been a tool to dominate small and medium countries is quite true, but what would stop TPTB from using the IMF anyway ?

As you say, the IMF includes the Eurozone nations, but I don't see how that's a show-stopper.  Instead, it seems like the IMF will be used to overcome German objections by internationalizing the whole thing, thanks to Ben's helicopter and the manufactured gullibility of the American people.

Can anyone explain, please, where my anaylsis is wrong?  Otherwise, I'm going to think TPTB have the trick that will kick the can down the road for a few years, until the whole Ponzi scheme falls apart. 

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:41 | Link to Comment jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

the imf has always insisted on being paid back; indeed its loans become senior to all other loans.  

the assets have gone bad.  what the original investors, including bank bond and stock holders want, is for someone to pay them and take the loss.  the imf may have a different idea.  as they say, if you don't know who the sucker is ....

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 02:11 | Link to Comment Marx_it_2_market.
Marx_it_2_market.'s picture

Right.  The IMF always gets repaid.  So what's to stop that private bank with the turbo printing presses and a Federal name, from funding the Eurozone ?

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 06:15 | Link to Comment Potemkin Nation
Potemkin Nation's picture

These deliberations have nothing to do with solving the problem.  As Martenson says, this is a predicament, not a problem.  It's all about who is going to pay.  In that light, saving the bankers by foisting a much more severe problem on the little people is a rational course of action, assuming you're a banker... without a conscience.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 00:45 | Link to Comment El Gordo
El Gordo's picture

I could only wish Congress were too busy to legislate.  Let them steal what they want if they will just stop legislating.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 02:59 | Link to Comment CharlieSDT
CharlieSDT's picture

Mark Twain observed in 1866, . “No man’s life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session.” He’s still right. The more our government does, the more they steal from us all.

 

http://www.singledudetravel.com/2011/11/american-scamocracy/

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 03:04 | Link to Comment fourchan
fourchan's picture

the paracite of government looms large.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 03:14 | Link to Comment Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

The sad thing is how the parasites sell us out.  Almost all of us pay taxes yet they only listen to a small majority, who pay more.  Its like they are trying to keep their best customer, not be democratic.

 

I bet if George Washington was president about 98 percent of them would be in prison right now.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:23 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

As seen in last episode, the IMF was tight against the rope with no hope.  The Fed acting in the interests of itself require that they reinflate the bubble in Europe.

 

Stay tuned when the fiat currency believes it is more important than the people it serves...

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:39 | Link to Comment DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

But we can't stay tuned to Dancing With the Stars because the season is over. What will we do?

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 00:33 | Link to Comment Maiden Lane
Maiden Lane's picture

The fact that you know that is cause for concern

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:10 | Link to Comment SillySalesmanQu...
SillySalesmanQuestion's picture

Watch Castle tomorrow night for the answer to that question and much more...right ater The Price Is Right! Stay tuned...

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 05:25 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

The bubble can't be reinflated. And now we're starting to see really bad signs in real estate poping up all over western europe as prices seem to be down 10% overall this year which is causing more people to put their houses for sale.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:26 | Link to Comment dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

The Eurozone will not allow the US to be perceived as the saviour of their EuroSoviet experiment. Loan it to the IMF "Eu intellectuals" and let them control the message and distribution.

Probably add to that if they do the loan facility under an IMF aegis, by treaty, the US taxpayer has to foot the bill if it goes tits up. Why expose their balance sheet any more than they already have.

The FED has obligated the US Taxpayer outside Congressional due process.

I'm not sure whether the Fed is to blame or f%^&ing Congress. The Fed is what the Fed is. Congress is "Stupid is as stupid does".

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:42 | Link to Comment Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

in the 0.01% chance this latest baseless speculation is true

correction: in the 100% likelihood that the obvious is true

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:09 | Link to Comment YBNguy
YBNguy's picture

Didnt they make this move during the last bailout, where billions were given to failing foreign countries and it took forever for them to disclose thru FOIA?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:13 | Link to Comment surf0766
surf0766's picture

And $110 WTI

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:28 | Link to Comment Teddy Turner
Teddy Turner's picture

This explains it.  Watch the whole thing.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUsKrulPnTE&feature=channel_video_title

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:26 | Link to Comment rbg81
rbg81's picture

Sure, lets bail out the Italian and Greek pensioners.  Why not?  We're already in more debt than we could possibly pay off anyway due to our unfunded obligations and "guarantees".  At this point, it might as well be handing out Monopoly $$.  Let's face it: Bernanke's real mandate is to keep the Machine from blowing up into a million pieces until the 2012 election.  A key part of that is keeping interest rates low and the DOW above 12K by any means necessary.  But after 2012, (to quote Private Hudson from "Aliens") its Game Over man.  Game Over.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 02:20 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

Why do you assume there will be an election in 2012?

Does it look like they're serious about having one? LOL

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 21:56 | Link to Comment death_to_fed_tyranny
death_to_fed_tyranny's picture

F The FED! DIE FED! DIE!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:00 | Link to Comment living on the edge
living on the edge's picture

They are dying but won't go out without a fight, hence QE 3, 4, 5, etc.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:07 | Link to Comment SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

Yeah, these banksters would rather fuck the whole world than make it right. 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:10 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

that is their normal MO

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 00:47 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

They're just doing God's work.  God needs money, lots of it --  all of it if possible.

Now if we only knew who "God" is, we could get to the root of the problem.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 21:57 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

Good, we need to have this thing break. Bernanke is an outlaw and he needs to be caught and punished.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 21:58 | Link to Comment Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

I guess Bernake was right.  He really does literally answer to anyone.  The FED is unilaterally authorized to do whatever the fuck they want to.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:07 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

No, let's not go overboard.

The Fed has explicitly said it is not empowered to lend money to California, Illinois or any other state that issues bonds and asks the Fed to purchase.

It's very hard to see how the Fed would buy IMF bonds if it is not empowered to buy California bonds.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:10 | Link to Comment jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Intermediaries, my friend.  Fed would "lend" the money to some WS banker's wife and she would buy all the IMF bonds.  And a purse. 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:15 | Link to Comment Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Then lose it all in a crap game with a bank holding company that the Fed would have to bail out 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:02 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Maybe that Dem c*nt Corzine and his c**t wife.  The DNC and muslim's friend - Corzine.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:03 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Freddie.... it's a cunt. The word is used in sentences like this:

Someone should slip a cunt over Freddie's head and fuck some sense into him.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:30 | Link to Comment Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

When the time comes the Fed will bail out the states as well.  I know this is hard to grasp, but the Fed "may" be lying:)

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:45 | Link to Comment Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Well sure, those pension's and retirement account's are looking pretty tasty. 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:19 | Link to Comment kill switch
kill switch's picture

Tuco,,One bastard goes in, and another one comes out,,,Look,,look the fed is taking the filthy money...

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:48 | Link to Comment Mactheknife
Mactheknife's picture

>It's very hard to see how the Fed would buy IMF bonds if it is not empowered to buy California bonds.

OK, it's like this...the people who own the Fed (a private bank) have the same vested interest in the major banks of the EU. This is NOT about bailing out countries or states, it's about bailing out the dumbass banks none of whom have much of a vested interest in CA. All western governments are now owned and operated by the world banking cartel and they don't give a rat's ass about CA or IL or you & me. Also, it's in the charter that we gave them in 1913 that says they can go take over the world as long as they leave individual states alone and under the US government. It is an outrage that this power was handed over to them and it must be taken back.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 00:34 | Link to Comment Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

and it must be taken back

So very true.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 00:55 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

When they decide they're able to get clear title to California, they may change their minds and empower their "Fed" to buy those California bonds.

We may be watching the End Game in real time.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:02 | Link to Comment Milestones
Milestones's picture

Mac-here's something I've posted a few times

by Milestones 
on Sun, 11/21/2010 - 14:22
#

 

Mr. T., I addressed this issue a couple of times "The Trials and Tribulations of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913" on 6-15-10 and a couple of times later. In fine, let me answer you in brief.

My argument lies in Article 1, Section 8 (5)-Powers of Congress. The Congress SHALL have power: to coin money, REGULATE THE VALUE THEREOF,--". That power was apparently DELEGATED to the Federal Reserve Bank. That DELEGATION of authority to the Federal Reserve is my question. Did Congress have the authority to delegate that authority to "regulate the value thereof"?

Panama Refining Co. v Ryan 293 U.S. 388 1935

"The Constitution provides 'that all legislative powers herein GRANTED SHALL be vested in the Congress of the United States, which shall consist Senate and House of Representatives.'--The Congress MANIFESTLY IS NOT PERMITTED to abdicate or to TRANSFER TO OTHERS the essential legislative functions with which it is vested.---Cannot be allowed  to obscure the limitations of the authority to delegate, if our constitutional system is to be maintained."

Field v Clark 143 U.S. 649 1892

--"The legislative power must REMAIN in the organ where it is lodged by that instrument."

Sovereignty is granted to "We the People" in the first 3 words of the Preamble. As such, under the Constitution, we the people delegate our Sovereign authority to persons to REPRESENT us in day to day dealings. But it is the reserve of the Soverigns to delegate authority not our reperesentatives. John Locke came to the same conclusion.

I would contend that the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 is illegal under the Constitution. Further, if we consider Marbury v Madison of 1803, a decision has stood for over 200 years, the case can be stated in far starker terms:

Marbury v Madison 17 Wall 205 Cranch 2 1803

"Thus the particular phraseology of the Constitution of the United States confirms and strengthens the principal, supposedly to be essential to all written constitutions, that a law repugnant to the constitution is VOID; and the courts AS WELL AS ALL OTHER DEPARTMENTS ARE BOUND BY THAT INSTRUMENT."

Not only did Congress not have the authority to submit such a document as the Federal Reserve Act of 1913; likewise President Wilson had no authority to sign it. See the last sentence of the above.

Yes, I know, the Constitution has been turned into a roll of toilet paper to the 1%ers but that is still the document I still march to as do most others . If that not be the case then we would be far better served now to be comparing an AR-15 to an AK-47.

If those unhappy with the way things are want a change, we must state our concerns and grievances in a fashion that those who are totally uninformed can have a place, a handle so that a nightmare of a 2nd revolution can be avoided. 

There was a ton of groundwork done before Jefferson wrote his magnificent document of 1776. Milestones

Your name:Milestones

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 03:39 | Link to Comment lunar
lunar's picture

.....the people who own the Fed (a private bank) have the same vested interest in the major banks of the EU. This is NOT about bailing out countries or states, it's about bailing out the dumbass banks....

how true!


Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:38 | Link to Comment ActionFive
ActionFive's picture

Don't hear much about state bankruptcies anymore like you did- do you..

See, that is how they do it.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:21 | Link to Comment leftcoastfool
leftcoastfool's picture

He is the main cause of our problems.  I blame Ben Bernanke... http://tinyurl.com/75h2gxy

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 21:58 | Link to Comment dumpster
dumpster's picture

sort of like the rumor or 7.5 trillion paid to banks .. in the last fed operation

congress who are they .

a witless corrupt bunch of paid for gas bags

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 21:59 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

Good, seal the fate of CONgress next year and maybe the Fed

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:01 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Fuck this bullshit

Though ZH says no truth to it, I'm sure the FED inflates till my ass is blue and gray to bail out European piggies.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:09 | Link to Comment Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

The FED has no choice, because of those pesky little CDS's issued by the American banks (80 Trillion worth) !

CDS = Kriptonic Deflationary Backstop's

Kudos to JS !  QE to Infinity !

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 21:59 | Link to Comment Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

There is no way the Federal Reserve will get away with or go through with this without congressional approval. I can assure the OWS will grow in size if this is the case. If the Federal Reserve is for bailing out Europe the game is near the end for Bernanke. An impeachment proceeding would be necessary and the evidence is first hand.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:03 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

They got away with it before.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:17 | Link to Comment jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Bailed out Brazil and Mexico too.  Probably others as well.  

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:48 | Link to Comment Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

First of all the US was in a much better position fiancially to help. Second, some members of congress explicitly said no way are we approving more money to the IMF. Third, Brazil and Mexico were comparitively much smaller problems.

If this does occur you have a constitutional crisis. Congress controls the spending and Bernanke will find his ass in a congressional hearing of which there will be a lot of whimpering on his part going on. He will get impeached if he goes through with this imo.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 04:36 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Impeachment?!! Fsck that, there's a cell in GITMO with his name on it!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:05 | Link to Comment Everyman
Everyman's picture

NO.  I think some patriots will start taking these peeple out.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:13 | Link to Comment Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

the fed managed to loan out $16 TRILLION in 2008/2009 AND CONGRESS DIDN'T KNOW.

You really think they can't give away $1 trllion in swaps secretly? sre FOIA 5 years later will reveal it but by then who cares. Jersey Shore season 25 will be on.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 00:48 | Link to Comment Iwanttoknow
Iwanttoknow's picture

I sure hope so.then I've been hoping for avery long time.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:01 | Link to Comment gmj
gmj's picture

"If the Federal Reserve is for bailing out Europe the game is near the end for Bernanke."  I disagree.  The man on the street does not know what the Federal Reserve is, who Bernanke is, or where on the globe Europe is.  Too many of you are isolated within your own social stratum.  You can not imagine the depth of ignorance in the larger population.  This is the Achilles heel of a democracy with universal suffrage.  In effect, it is no democracy at all.

I wonder how long it will be before the threadbare facade of democracy is finally, quietly swept aside?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:00 | Link to Comment kato
kato's picture

At least they could nationalize the banks in the process so we do not have to revisit this issue again within the next five years. But much better no more $US funny money used for anything.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:01 | Link to Comment Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Fed and central banks reaching escape velocity: they are supranational and need no approval or oversight, and can't be questioned. The role of national governments is symbolic only

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:03 | Link to Comment Everyman
Everyman's picture

How much longer are we going to sit idly by and let the FED RES continue ruining the world economy?  ALL of those fuckers need to be put to death.  Anger is rising and SOON those pricks will be dragged out of their offices and shot in the head, or put in a wood chipper feet first.

This is getting ridiculously out of hand.  These pricks can only think of one thing:

PRINT MONEY AND BUY BAD DEBT.  OK stupid fucks at the Federal Reserve, you like bad debt so much, the YOU KEEP THIS TOXIC SHIT!  Quit hanging it on the additional generations, because sooner of later they will say "Fuck you assholes" to all that went before them.

Then who pays the bills?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:38 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

Can't talk that way man. Black helicopters headed your way in 3... 2... 1...

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:08 | Link to Comment Everyman
Everyman's picture

True, but they are gonna hafta have a lot of gas for the amount of helicopters for every Man, woman and young adult that is thinking and saying exactly that.  Look at OWS and the Tea Party alone. 

300,000,000 is how many people they have to corral up, and they can't keep lookin' at all of us.

I think the black helicopter pilots and the men in them are on to the economist cabal as well.  There are many out there refusing promotions in TOP SECRET because of the oath they have to sign to take the side of the corrupt United Criminal States of Amerika Government, against the American Citizens.

It is breaking down.  I would not want to be a body guard for hese pricks.  I also think that these bodyguards know the people that they are "protecting" are not worth taking a bullet for.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:23 | Link to Comment Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

Man........It is SO nice to hear talk like this. The threat or accomplishment of the "take-back" is the only way to fix this. It is only when the evil pissants actually fear for their lives will things change. Some of them need to go no matter what.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:58 | Link to Comment Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

what goes up,must come down.

Not always smoothly..

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:30 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture
Odious debt

In international law, odious debt is a legal theory that holds that the national debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation, should not be enforceable. Such debts are, thus, considered by this doctrine to be personal debts of the regime that incurred them and not debts of the state. In some respects, the concept is analogous to the invalidity of contracts signed under coercion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odious_debt

When a despotic regime contracts a debt, not for the needs or in the interests of the state, but rather to strengthen itself, to suppress a popular insurrection, etc, this debt is odious for the people of the entire state. This debt does not bind the nation; it is a debt of the regime, a personal debt contracted by the ruler, and consequently it falls with the demise of the regime. The reason why these odious debts cannot attach to the territory of the state is that they do not fulfill one of the conditions determining the lawfulness of State debts, namely that State debts must be incurred, and the proceeds used, for the needs and in the interests of the State.   Odious debts, contracted and utilized for purposes which, to the lenders' knowledge, are contrary to the needs and the interests of the nation, are not binding on the nation – when it succeeds in overthrowing the government that contracted them – unless the debt is within the limits of real advantages that these debts might have afforded. The lenders have committed a hostile act against the people, they cannot expect a nation which has freed itself of a despotic regime to assume these odious debts, which are the personal debts of the ruler.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 02:20 | Link to Comment azusgm
azusgm's picture

So Ben, Timmah, Obama, the Squid, JPM, and the other TBTFs should be subjected to clawbacks.

Sweet thought.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:02 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Bernanke doesn't want to destroy the world to save a few pennies.  He knows that he must step in, and now that the other central banks have agreed to keep the system liquid, he has his chance to fund the European bailout.  If this is true, it is about time Europe and the IMF asked for his and Geithner's help.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:13 | Link to Comment Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

Is that help in the form of Paper & Ink or key logging zero's ?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:50 | Link to Comment Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Why the key stroked zero's please. 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:50 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

If Bernanke can get himself a Nobel, he is going to buy them out instead!!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:18 | Link to Comment LouisDega
LouisDega's picture

Fuck Dancing with the stars. I am strictly a Sundance film channel fan. My Aunt Janet likes Dancing with the stars. Tonight im actually watching The Rockford files. That James Garner was a good looking dude.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:04 | Link to Comment ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

RMD. Rumors of mass destruction

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:05 | Link to Comment lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

The unelected fourth branch of government. The greatest fraud ever contrived. No constitutional provision- no constitutional remedy. No oversight. When they drag out the guillotines, make sure the ones with the dull blades find their way to the FED.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:05 | Link to Comment Winterland
Winterland's picture

This will happen, it has to. 

 

It's just so depressing to consider.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:06 | Link to Comment death_to_fed_tyranny
death_to_fed_tyranny's picture

This is the reason s1867 was passed. Know the Kenyan in Chief will sign and Domestic Terrorists(PATRIOTS) will be shipped off to GITMO en mass. LOCK AND LOAD BROTHERS!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:08 | Link to Comment unspoken
unspoken's picture

You did not get the memo.  Oh you are not on the inside.  Squid sorry, squid tentacle forgot.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:06 | Link to Comment Sizzurp
Sizzurp's picture

Unless Ron Paul is elected POTUS, Bernanke and his goons will continue their rapage of destruction.  Send Ron Paul $$$ now please.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:07 | Link to Comment TheAkashicRecord
TheAkashicRecord's picture

Let's lighten things up for a moment, check out this track and accompanying video 

Röyksopp - Electric Counterpoint III. Fast (RYXPs Milde Salve)

http://tiny.cc/a7q9p

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:07 | Link to Comment Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Bernanke wants to have a vacuum cleaner named after him, like his idol Hoover did in the last depression.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:08 | Link to Comment ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Biggest Bank Robbery in History. Allowed and contrived by our leaders...

Controlled global financial demolition

Those of u not in metals that you can hold, I hope you fare well. I doubt you will..

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:09 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

As above, this sounds dubious.

The Fed is not allowed to buy California bonds.  Hard to see how it can buy IMF bonds if it can't buy state bonds.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:13 | Link to Comment Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

I suppose $7.7 Trillion in secret bailout funds was following the rules? 

 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:06 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

I think what the FED meant was that they CANNOT BE MADE to buy state bonds.

pods

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:08 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Absolutely!  It's all really discretionary -- Bernanke really only answers to the Fed's shareholders.  And they aren't the taxpayers -- never were.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:09 | Link to Comment tom a taxpayer
tom a taxpayer's picture

Interpol BOLO Alert: Be On Look Out for Terrible Timmy in European cities the week of December 5-9. 

Intelligence sources in New York City delis indicate that Terrible Timmy is on his way to disrupt TEOTWAWKI Euro meetings in Frankfurt, Paris, Milan,  Marseille, Rome, Athens, Brussels, and other centers of European enlightenment. Security officials fear that Timmy will run amok in Europe December 5-9 and throw monkey wrenches into critical negotiations to save the Euro.  

Timmy has a long rap sheet including tax cheat, serial rapist of taxpayers, and front man for Wall Street mob. Like a chameleon he can be difficult to identify. But when in a crowd he can be tricked into revealing himself if the Public Address system pages one of his aliases or nicknames: such as "Turbo" or "Timmah" or "Geisha Timmyeeeeeeeeesha" or "Hey You!" or "Heel boy!" or "Gofer! get me a pastrami on rye" or "Paging banker boot licker…Financial Emergency!…Paging banker boot licker".

Arrest On Sight. Confirm identity of suspect by pulling down his pants and checking for "Property of Goldman Sachs" tattooed on his ass. Flight risk…Do not grant bail!…his mob bosses on Wall Street have more money than God.


Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:13 | Link to Comment Bill D. Cat
Bill D. Cat's picture

Buddy can you spare a dime ? ..... has taken on a whole new meaning .

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:37 | Link to Comment Cranios
Cranios's picture

Make that "Benny can you spare a dime?"

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:18 | Link to Comment TheAkashicRecord
TheAkashicRecord's picture

 

I will not eat the food that makes me weak.

I will not play the games that make me dumb.

 

http://tiny.cc/ro3qe

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:15 | Link to Comment monopoly
monopoly's picture

And soon American Idol. So put it all on the back burner.

Timmmayyy going to Europe to advise the IMF and ECB on how to manage their finances. Yup, that will work well since he is doing such a good job in this country. Go for it Timmaayy, just drown us all.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:15 | Link to Comment JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Fed is the sovereign power in these United States.

 

$16,000,000,000,000.00 had been secretly given out to US banks and corporations and foreign banks everywhere from France to Scotland. From the period between December 2007 and June 2010, the Federal Reserve had secretly bailed out many of the world’s banks, corporations, and governments. The Federal Reserve likes to refer to these secret bailouts as an all-inclusive loan program, but virtually none of the money has been returned and it was loaned out at 0% interest. Why the Federal Reserve had never been public about this or even informed the United States Congress about the $16 trillion dollar bailout is obvious — the American public would have been outraged to find out that the Federal Reserve bailed out foreign banks while Americans were struggling to find jobs.

 

The power of the Fed is unchallenged in the land of the free, home of the brave.

http://www.unelected.org/audit-of-the-federal-reserve-reveals-16-trillio...

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:15 | Link to Comment cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

The problem with precious metals like gold is it is always valued against some type of currency.  Lately one oz of gold is worth about $1700 or so US fiat dollars.  That basically informs the owner of the gold and who he or she wishes to trade goods or services with what may be aquired.

What if fiat currency can no longer be used to measure gold's worth?  For example if hyper inflation kicks in and it take a billion dollars to buy a loaf of bread?

You and your children are starving and someone offers you a month or weeks supply of food, in exchange for all your gold?

See what I mean?

 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:22 | Link to Comment Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

The numbers mean nothing.  What is important is what one ounce of gold can buy (purchasing power) at any point in time.  Nominal numbers are not important.

By the way, with all this bail out this and bail out that, we are just talking about key stroke entries.  The whole thing is an illusion!  Digits are not money.  It's just "tradition":)

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:55 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Apt moniker.

See what I mean?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:22 | Link to Comment Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Hilarious x 2!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:53 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

If i have no other choice, i make the deal.  Remember this, they will accept all my gold for food long after they refuse all my paper for food.  I get another week.  That is what gold is for.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 00:08 | Link to Comment cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

I would do the same, and in the context you describe it, gold has its value.

I suspect others on this board do not understand the reality of survival on a base level without government backstop as in foodstamps, unemployment and welfare.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:22 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

That's the bankers' task -- to make sure you have no other choice.  You must give them all your gold (and your ammuntion too) for a little food  and shelter.  This is after he's taken/tied up all the farmer's and/or grain elevator's food.

It's the End Game.  Afterwards, if it all works according to plan, they have it all -- gold, food, land, and the serfs (that's us and/or our children).

 

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 00:11 | Link to Comment Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

@ cherry picker.

Stay away from the drugs.....

To strong for you,,,,,

Try tea.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:17 | Link to Comment holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

We have capitalism until there are losses to take.

Sheesh.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:09 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

Nerf Capitalism.

Everybody has fun, nobody gets hurt.

pods

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:20 | Link to Comment chump666
chump666's picture

Um anyone watching the Shanghai sink into the red and the USD buying again (Asia)?   

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:29 | Link to Comment chump666
chump666's picture

Forget Europe and the US, both economies have lost their brains.  This is the main one -   The China bomb.  Outflows continue, think of it has a fund outflow x 100000:

SHANGHAI (Dow Jones)--The yuan hit the low end of its trading band against the U.S. dollar Monday for the fourth consecutive session, as investors continued to seek the perceived safety of the U.S. currency amid growing worries over China's slowing economy and weakening exports.
The dollar hit CNY6.3666 at the opening, the upper limit of its daily trading band. It stood at CNY6.3597 late Friday.
"There are signs of continued capital outflows because of concerns over risks in China's financial system, such falling property prices and potential bad loans," said a trader at an Asian bank in Shanghai.
The dollar's strength also benefited from a higher dollar-yuan central parity, a reference exchange rate used by the Chinese central bank to guide daily trading.
The People's Bank of China set the parity at 6.3349 Monday, up from Friday's 6.3310.
The yuan is allowed to trade up to 0.5% against the dollar on either side of the reference rate.

 

Doom.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 00:20 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Cheaper Chinese products to buy at Wal-Mart, just in time for the holidays. Bullish.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:21 | Link to Comment GoodMorningMr.V...
GoodMorningMr.VanRumpoy...'s picture

Of course. A few years ago they secretly loaned trillions  to U.S. banks without anyone else knowing about it until about a week ago.

Now the fed with, probably with  Obama's blessing, will bailout the entire continent of Europe.

 

It is going to happen. It probably already is. Just be thankfull if you hear about it sometime this year instead of 4 years from now when hamburgers are $100.

 

 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:21 | Link to Comment Hondo
Hondo's picture

Complete revolution to follow. I hope they try so we can get this final battle on an finally eliminate the Fed once and for all

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:24 | Link to Comment apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

Gold tried to break out in Asia, but the criminals are at it again.  But Karma is a bitch; any widespread acknowledgement of this will break the CRIMEX

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:02 | Link to Comment Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

CME Clearing to Accept Offshore Chinese Renminbi (CNH) as Collateral for Futures Trading, Partner with HSBC for Far East Custodial Services

 

http://m.prnewswire.com/news-releases/cme-clearing-to-accept-offshore-ch...

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 00:16 | Link to Comment Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

I seen the Kitco gold chart looked like a crime scene shortly after opening of markets.

Fuck you little weasel timmy,and Benny,the dick licker.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:26 | Link to Comment Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Well, the massive gap in the opening is confirmed.  Every minor sell off in the futures is, of course, immediately ramrodded back up.

They'll need the 'hundo' on the Dow for the 'psychology effect' on retail investors.

God, does this shit get fucking old or what?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:28 | Link to Comment cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

After reading http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/debt-slavery-%E2%80%93-why-it-destr... above, then reading this, it appears that history is rhyming indeed.

What will the human race as a whole choose for an outcome?

It is not always war, for it takes money to wage war and it appears money will be in short supply soon enough and the end of time hasn't shown its face for us as a species as of yet and may not.

There are options, but will anyone have the courage and inspiration to actually implement them.

What has been bandied about by all the experts pro and con no longer make sense to my simple mind.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:30 | Link to Comment Just Observing
Just Observing's picture

Most of Congress already knows who works for who.....and the rest will figure it out in time, or their replacement will.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:31 | Link to Comment wharfdaddy
wharfdaddy's picture

is this not tantamount to Oppenhiemer selling the Nazi's diamond Bortz while Hitler was cooking his cousins into soap? Jew Banks bail out Krauts..Amazing...

 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:33 | Link to Comment spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

I think it is cute that people in Congress think they actually have a say in matters involving the FED.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:32 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

I don't think the more experienced ones at least think that.  But I do think they think their constituents believe they have a say in the "Fed's" matters.  It is, after all, called "The Federal Reserve".  How "Federal" is that?

For fun, do a poll of the people you know and ask them if the Federal Reserve is a gov't. agency or part of the US Treasury.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:32 | Link to Comment Cranios
Cranios's picture

Seriously? If you think Bernanke isn't salivating to do exactly what is being rumored, then I wonder why you think that. He's lent money without authorization to nearly everyone on the face of the earth, and just because the IMF can't pay it back doesn't mean he won't do it anyway. Besides, Congress would love it because they can claim it wasn't their decision. The Europeans win. Congress wins. The Fed wins. The only losers are holders of US dollars, and no one cares about us (or the taxpayers).

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:37 | Link to Comment erg
erg's picture

I'm reminded of an old M*A*S*H episode when Colonel Potter shot a jeep after Burns ran over it with a tank.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:37 | Link to Comment holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

OT:

Tyler on Twitter: "How many banks pulled a BofA and shifted their CDS ops to a deposit backstopped sub per client demands after rating downgrade?"

Popcorn run time?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:38 | Link to Comment PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

$150 oil by end of year.

The roads will be less crowded with kids driving 26 miles for a McD's.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:43 | Link to Comment xcehn
xcehn's picture

Yeah, the Fed is the perfect fall 'guy.'  The banksters will make sure that there is no effective opposition to the US-driven Euro bailout.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:43 | Link to Comment Wixard
Wixard's picture

I would be shocked if this is just a rumor and not already in the planning stages. I don't see how anyone could be surprised and it's a bit of a given. 

 

So yea rather than throwing it into their black debt hidey book where bad money goes to hide, they do it in the open to try and boost confidence. 

There's a giant issue with that, austerity has a hell of a way in destroying confidence. Besides they can always do more under the radar, at least until inflation really starts spreading around.

 

I see the talking heads saying basically this: "If europe can solve its own ills, the debt can be grown out of. And no double dip!" Which of course is bull shit. We're still in our recession/depression. I think in the circles a lot of these people run in they simply cant see with their own eyes how bad its been. Empty store fronts, young adults moving back in with parents, home prices in the crapper. Forget new homes, the 99% don't buy new homes. They buy what's already there. The explosion of rental prices confirms this.

 

Unfortunately our entire system is now predicated on trading GDP with debt and inflation. There is no going back.

 

Then tyler can replace the entire ZH page with the deer because no further commentating will be nessecary. 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:46 | Link to Comment willien1derland
willien1derland's picture

God forbid the Federal Reserve from printing another USD - Bernacke's 'financial accelerator' is truly a WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION - it is morally, ethically & CRIMINALLY wrong to defraud - the creation of USD to cover the irresponsibility of banksters & WDC is criminal - it enslaves the current & future generations of Americans - The Federal Reserve cannot be allowed to conduct itself without oversight - if Congress does not act to constrain the Fed then it will be left to the citizens of the US to rid itself of this rogue organization - For God sake Bernacke STOP & CONSIDER THE RAMIFICATIONS OF YOUR ACTIONS!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:47 | Link to Comment San Diego Gold Bug
San Diego Gold Bug's picture

if congress allows this my tax bill is going way down...............................

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:52 | Link to Comment San Diego Gold Bug
San Diego Gold Bug's picture

I sent a certified letter to my congressman on Friday complaining about all of the bullshit that is happening...are any of you doing that or are you just trying to impress each other with posts!  Rise up and complain via phone calls, faxes and best of all certified mail!!  Pull your money from your banks, brokerage accounts etc and buy physical stuff...land, gold, silver, anything but Wall Street kept dollars!!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:02 | Link to Comment f16hoser
f16hoser's picture

I wrote my Senators and chewed their butts! I ended by saying it's time for them to go home with their guaranteed pensions/health care and ill-gotten Wall Street millions. I also asked them what the hell is Washington afraid of?

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:18 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

your letter will go in the trash.  that was a waste of about six dollars............you don't get it do you?  

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:22 | Link to Comment San Diego Gold Bug
San Diego Gold Bug's picture

Dude,

  Try actually making a difference in society!

A long time contributor

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:45 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Congress is nothing but very expensive, ugly eye candy(?) anymore. They could be replaced, with no difference in real function except for the rhetoric, with a rubber stamp and save us a hell of a lot of wasted dollars.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:22 | Link to Comment billybobtx
billybobtx's picture

So a strongly worded letter is the key? Certified mail! Bet that puts the fear of God into them getting a Certified frigging letter.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:19 | Link to Comment San Diego Gold Bug
San Diego Gold Bug's picture

Do something for once in your life!!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:27 | Link to Comment Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

The only way you'll get their attention is if you didn't sign the enclosed check. 

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:48 | Link to Comment azusgm
azusgm's picture

Certified mail is a really bad idea, has been ever since the anthrax scare. Don't think the snail mail is even opened on site anymore. Faxes are much better. Phone calls are my favorite.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:53 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I know that "Dirt Bag" , Ben & Timmah are kissing some Eurocratic ASS!  Just remember the " Debt Ceiling" , increase is a ( temporary) fix !

   These worthless gasbags make me want to PUKE!  The damage wasn't done overnight, and it won't be unwound overnight! Where in the hell is the Fed going to jumble [ Even 500B to lever up x 4-5 times ], assuming a IMF 18% commitment, on a Euro 6Trillion bailout package? 

    That 6T is modest at best!

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:02 | Link to Comment JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Why is everyone so surprised about $1 trillion to bail out Europe? That is just routine for the Fed. During the last financial crisis, According to the GAO audit, approximately $3.08 trillion went to foreign banks in Europe and in Asia out of the total $16.1 trillion handed out by the Fed.

That money has not yet been returned.  Will we ever know if that money is ever returned?  How can you allow a private, unelected entity hand out trillions with no guarantee of return at zero interest rates?  

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:57 | Link to Comment Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

It's simple really: Got debt?

Create a new bank that will buy it all up. Like Russian dolls, the debt is contained within a bank, contained within a bank, contained within a bank....

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:59 | Link to Comment razorthin
razorthin's picture

Backdoor genocide.  Killing the currency kills people.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:58 | Link to Comment capm
capm's picture

Moral hazard.

Failure to punish poor decisions == misallocation of resources == inequitable distribution of wealth

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 22:59 | Link to Comment f16hoser
f16hoser's picture

That's it people. Get your cash out of every institution you can. Buy Gold/Silver. Don't be the last man standing when the music stops. Our political system is completely corrupted/captured/polarized. Every man for himself. As an active military member, I stand with my brothers and sisters. I'm sure the majority of the military feel the same way. Pussy politicians are scared or they would not have passed S-1867. Obama says he will veto it but don't hold your breath. The military is tired of being used by the banksters and their puppet politicians. Enough is enough. This is coming to a head.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:37 | Link to Comment topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I think so too.
The country is slowly waking up and revolution may be near.

I cant find anyone in the military who supports suspending habeas corpus in the USA and indefinite detention of Americans without trial or access to an attorney.

I cant believe S 1867 is supported by a majority in congress. We need another american revolution if it passes.

Americans picked up on american soil cannot be given a life sentence without a trial or access to an attorney. That such a bill could be contemolated by anyone is incredible.

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:51 | Link to Comment erg
erg's picture

+1 What you said!

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 03:33 | Link to Comment kennard
kennard's picture

You are stating the ACLU position on the National Defense Authorization Act Bill:

http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2011/11/30/us-congress-enacts-laws-hold...

The relevant provisions are intended to combat terrorism and only apply to sustected criminal acts committed outside the United States.

Mon, 12/05/2011 - 10:06 | Link to Comment hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

Unintended consequences!!!!  I didn't read any break out for US citizens in those provisions, I believe that the ACLU has this one right........

"2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces."

Define "associated forces", "hostilites against the United States" and "belligerent act". 

I have a home on the US/Canadian Border in NYS.  The Border patrol has a very strong presence here.  I cannot go to the local grocery store without seeing at least 2 agents/BP Cars on my drive of about 5 miles.  I have lost track of the number of times I have been pulled over by these young men, (I have another home in FL and my cars have FL tags).  I give them my drivers licence and my passport and I refuse to answer any other questions.  Right now the way the laws are written the have 15 min to confirm that I am a US Citizen (or the BP's officers boss, local senators etc etc will be come involved in the matter and a letter of complaint will be written).

They have no business asking me what I am doing, were I am going, why etc etc..... for the record I am a  older gray haired female, retired professional engineer, I have no criminal record nor do I assoicate with any known criminals or people involved in drugs etc. I don't fit any profile, nor are there any "system flags on my name or tag numbers".  For the most part, these young men are poorly trained, agressive and armed, they are bored and looking for conflict.  And on a lonely back road that is lightly traveled they will take as much rope as they think they can get away with, and I am scared of them.......  this is truly insane....

And this is the US Border Patrol that I am describing, not the military,,,,

 

 

 

Sun, 12/04/2011 - 23:01 | Link to Comment pauhana
pauhana's picture

You know guys, we could put an end to this stupidity right now by not paying another dime in taxes until we retake control of OUR government.  If only one or two people do it, they will go to jail but if everyone does it, it would be a lot more powerful than camping out in some lousy park!  There would be pain but that's unavoidable at this point anyway.  If Americans don't stand up and stop this, we deserve what we get.

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