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Let My People Go
Submitted from Peter Tchir of TF Market Advisors
Let My People Go!
So yesterday I became pre-occupied with the French Revolution. With the comments coming out of Europe, and Germany in particular, the mud pit scene from the 10 Commandments is all I can think about. The slave master whipping the slaves to crush the straw into the mud until they are collapsing.
The situation in Greece has taken a more sinister turn. The outrage in Greece is growing. More and more of the people on my distribution list with ties to Greece are pointing out how bad things are there. Daily life is getting more difficult by the day for most people, yet the EU has told the Greeks that their current offer isn’t enough and that they have doubts about its implementation. At least they got that right, the austerity measures, will not remain implemented. It seems obvious to anyone who hasn’t become locked into a negotiating stance that the whole austerity idea isn’t working.
It is possible over the weekend that the Greek parliament will defer to EU demands and vote in a plan that is “acceptable” but I don’t see it lasting. The people are fed up and more and more realize that defaulting and costing the foreign bankers money is worth a shot. Default is NOT the end of the world or of Greece. For all the politicians who keep saying default is the end, they are just wrong. It will cause problems, but Greece will survive, and for the first time can start focusing on a plan to move forward rather than dealing just with problems of the past.
The German and Portuguese Side Deal here is appalling. It is a stark reminder that Portugal and Ireland are waiting in the wings to get a better deal. It is also clear that the Finance Ministers are politicians and at some level this is all just politics and a game to them. They are so far removed from the day to day concerns that they are not creating solutions that can deal with the real problems.
European credit indices are weak – again. The Financials index is out 12 bps this morning and at the wides of the day. That is in spite of the impending LTRO – with watered down collateral requirements. IG17 looks like it is opening a couple of bps wider, no surprise given how weak it went out yesterday.
Those betting on a “solution” are likely to be wrong. The focus now should be what happens with a Greek default. How bad will it be. There is no way it is priced in. The carnage for Greek banks and the knock-on effects haven’t been included. A default will impact all the debt floating around that is guaranteed by Greece and funded by the ECB or Greek Central Bank. It is not the end of the world, but it seems hard to maintain 1300 on the S&P in the event of a default (especially with an earnings backdrop that has been mediocre and raised as many questions as it has answered). The buy the dip mentality is still intact and too many people want to believe in a solution that the market may continue to bounce, but the reality is that too many people in Greece are being pushed over the edge to where they think default can’t be worse than more bailouts.
I’m just happy that the movie that came to mind was the 10 Commandments and not The Sound of Music.
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Shit bring it already
Tell those effers to f off crash it
Then the master of lies and destruction will show up as the savior with a chicken in every pot and money in you pocket to pay your bills.
He will be beautiful and wont be a wearing red long handled underwear with horns protruding from his head, he will be beautiful and powerful.
He is the master of deception and has taught his students well, but the can't hold a candle to the master.
Just remember the false christ come first, watch out.
'I’m just happy that the movie that came to mind was the 10 Commandments and not The Sound of Music.' How about "Beyond Thunderdome..."
Be wary of March and the Ides
When Greece is attacked from all sides
The dominoes fall
A fake firewall
Four Horsemen set out on their rides!
Let's be clear: If Greek politicians do not subjugate the masses, then the bankster overlords will use an alternative.
Can you see Greece as the new Cuba for the world? Decades after the default and the economic embargoes are still in place and the people are fairly happy in their simpler life. If Greece can survive the Turks and the Nazis it can survive the EU.
I find myself a contrarian amongst contrarians. When the time comes and someone blinks the Germans have more to lose. I'm not expecting a messy default in March. Just like when the low-life is about to get eveicted and on the last day the relatives pool their money to stop the eviction so will go Greece. If a hard default will hurt the banks badly a stop-gap measure will be found to delay the problem until the next rent is due. Lots of stern words and contrite thank yous but still just a can kick.
No doubt the bankster overlord will get their way, but which population will get subjugated?
I'm not sure how "happy" Cubans are since a full 20% have fledthe island post-Castro and scores continue trying to escape daily. I agree that the Germans will get soft and blink. We're then in for another future round of endless "talks"
wtf are the greasy greeks outraged over, that the free lunch has ended???
Things are "bad" there? WTF...they WOULD have been bad this whole time if not for German largess. People who spend all day lounging in cafes shouldn't expect the same outcome as people who make productive work.
The entire WORLD seems to struggle with this last concept.
That's because they are told by politicians that they don't need to...
and they can fix it.
To be told they can't retire at 50? My heart bleeds purple piss...
Two countries enter, one country leaves?
Spartacus.
V for Vendetta
'I'm Spartacus..."
'No, I'm Spartacus..."
Silence of the Lambs
I have a scary image intrenched in my head of Yul Brynner in sandals
Event Horizon
I was thinking Ben Hur:
Quintus Arrius: Now listen to me, all of you. You are all condemned men. We keep you alive to serve this DEBT. So row well, and live.
Default after the election in November 2012. In the meantime just pay the minimum payment.
Is zero good for you?
Exactly. It's the lack of discussion about a simple can kick that makes it seem most likely to me. Why is no one saying "Just give them enough money to make this month's rent and buy us some time?" The sheep go where the shepard's dog tells them to go and the most obedient sheep is the German breed. The Germans will fold unless the banksters want a hard default. The question I don't know the answer to is will the banksters be better off with a can kick or with picking over the bones of a defaulted Greece? March will tell.
I disagree with Tschir on "The German and Portuguese Side Deal here is appalling". Why?
What is appalling IMHO is the current state of the Greek political system.
btw, the "Let my people go" header seems a bit evocative of a EU/EZ forcing Greece in staying. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The EU & the eurozone are Clubs of GentlePeople (and hopefully this keeps being so in future). Cameron might piss on the carpet from time to time, it's still based on Liberty to join (if acceptable) and Freedom to leave.
"Freedom to leave" has no legal framework defined, that's the point. If there was a way out with defined responsibilities this groundhog day soap opera would have ended 3 years ago.
A bad analogy: this Greece/EU marriage has ended badly and the discussion is basically who gets the house, who keeps the dog. The only certainty is lawyers will get their share no matter what.
yes, leaving is messy, as in a divorce - the analogy is not that bad.
Though I'll never cease to insist that sovereign nations are supposed to be the ultimate "grown-ups", subject to no laws except those they make themselves or agree with others - and history is full of moments when sovereigns felt they were not bound even by that.
I would adjust "lawyers" with "banksters", though...
the fat lady will sing when she's ready
"Just remember the false christ come first, watch out."
Um, hey dude, he already came. We call him the Chairsatan for a reason!
Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Satan is my whipping boy.
"It seems obvious to anyone who hasn’t become locked into a negotiating stance that the whole austerity idea isn’t working.
It drives me crazy when I hear people say "austerity isn't working". What do you recommend instead, lavish jet-set lifestyles? Austerity isn't a policy. It's what happens when you're broke. Greeks (and Portuguese/Italians/Brits/Americans) are going to experience it whether they default or not.
Jesus.
+100. Exactly, Kiss, you hit the nail right on the head.
it works if you're rich but not when you are poor and on the breadline. How about efficiency and productivity?
you said: "Austerity isn't a policy. It's what happens when you're broke. "
not true !
whenever you dont want to pay - you tell them to get f*cked! that's the NYC way - then...you have a "shout out" and let the creditors scream until they get it out of their system - and followed by a "cram down" - where you tell them how "the cow ate the cabbage" - as long as you have the system and control of the border which the greeks do - and as long as they have 70% most of the bonds with local law which they can sujectively change to suit their 50 year needs - the only debt problem is - IN YOUR MIND -
let the banks eat cake - there will always be somone else post petition to cut a new deal - china? russia? until the heat blows off and then
you say you are sorry - the devil made me do it!
the politicians and their master bankers are all whores - 'whoowas" -on the street - who get paid by the ECB for the charade of giving the country away and letting slavery become an example for the world - this is all that is going on - an example nothing more - make them miserable and die so everyone sees what happens when you dotn pay - mafia game
get a new currency devalue against the euro 50% and move on debts are for chumps - the banks committed fraud with the politicos nothing else went on here
stand on your feet and say - hell no we wont go (1969) today - hell no we wont pay ! (2012)
you said: "Austerity isn't a policy. It's what happens when you're broke. "
not true !
whenever you dont want to pay - you tell them to get f*cked! that's the NYC way - then...you have a "shout out" and let the creditors scream until they get it out of their system - and followed by a "cram down" - where you tell them how "the cow ate the cabbage" - as long as you have the system and control of the border which the greeks do - and as long as they have 70% most of the bonds with local law which they can sujectively change to suit their 50 year needs - the only debt problem is - IN YOUR MIND -
let the banks eat cake - there will always be somone else post petition to cut a new deal - china? russia? until the heat blows off and then
you say you are sorry - the devil made me do it!
the politicians and their master bankers are all whores - 'whoowas" -on the street - who get paid by the ECB for the charade of giving the country away and letting slavery become an example for the world - this is all that is going on - an example nothing more - make them miserable and die so everyone sees what happens when you dotn pay - mafia game
get a new currency devalue against the euro 50% and move on debts are for chumps - the banks committed fraud with the politicos nothing else went on here
stand on your feet and say - hell no we wont go (1969) today - hell no we wont pay ! (2012)
defaulting and having minimal debt and then austerity could work....
this version of austerity is like debtors prison
Greecians....hear us well. The banking VAMPIRES will not abandon you after a default. They will be right back in there trying to figure out how to suck the NEW life out of your country!!! History proves this. DEFAULT IS YOUR ONLY HOPE. Then wrap every man, woman, and child in garlic. And for GOD's sake stay involved in politics......for the Vampire is a crafty creature.
"Then the master of lies and destruction will show up as the savior with a chicken in every pot and money in you pocket to pay your bills.
He will be beautiful and wont be a wearing red long handled underwear with horns protruding from his head, he will be beautiful and powerful."
Hey he's already here, and he's called Barack Hussein Obama.
BBC is running Greece streets and violence
Are they interviewing Kyle Bass yet and blaming hedge funds for this mess?
Kyle has a put that Portugal is next. You don't blame a king making a call on his new queen bee as she falls into honey pot.
La Prise de la Bastille 1789
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmKBoU9yPu8
http://news.yahoo.com/rep-bachus-faces-insider-trading-probe-report-0643...
Insider Trading!
Oh yes, Sound of Music! A propaganda master piece!!
What?
Shut yer Von Trapp.
Not sure if this is the sign of the end but Biggs is back!
Biggs is back-bullish as ever…http://www.thetrader.se/2012/02/09/biggs-is-back-bullish-as-ever/
Biggs is back-bullish as ever…
from train robber to fiat robber, Biggs is bag of tricks. Bigger is better. Bugger is bitter.
No shit, I'm confused, I can't tell fuse from refuse. Blow a bubble and prick a bubbled nipple, you'll end up in Sing Sing...
"Hi, Madoff how's the chow here?"
"It's fine if you're a legend! If not, you just bend over and take it like a stoic. Sparta is now a global state."
Apparently the crooks are better informed on the state of the world than the pricks who run it.
Back to Biggs... as he's back--bullish as ever!
I can't wait to until after Greece defaults and other countries realize it is an option. Screw the banks.
Greece should be daring and bold
Default on the debt Kleptos hold
Bring Greek fiat back
Devalue the drach
And then peg the new drachma to gold!
my king, your limericks are priceless
though 70% of the Greeks don't want (at the moment) go back to the drachma
80% distrust their own government - 60% trusts the EU (!)
and they (sadly) don't have enough gold to peg a currency to it...
Peg the Drachma to copper, they have some of that at least...
Some of the banksters may fear us
but if we default some will cheer us
in drachma no trust
we'd still go bust
Let's peg the new fiat to gyros
Peg it against Gas/Oil/Green power contracts
You can peg it to whatever you want, the systemic issues remain. And all this stuff about the poor Greeks. Why. There are refinancing a loan with additions. They need to submit a budget to justify money. No different than the "people" they purport to be representing.
They have a fractured government. There will be no consensus. Let them default already and let them be careful of what they wish for. This is a ridiculous gambit they are playing here.
Haven't met anyone over the past few months who thought that the Greek situation could be solved in this way. The debate has always been about the timing and exact mechanism of the default and if and when Greece would exit the Euro. Anyone who is not prepared for an imminent default deserves to lose their job. My guess is a short term dip as we approach the inevitable and a relief bounce when it is finally announced and we can all move on.
it's been said many times here before, but again: default is the solution - not the problem.
The problem is the Greek politicians, they are the ones not able to stop spending others money.
Unfortunately its always the people who pay the price.
The problem is the US politicians, they are the ones not able to stop spending others money.
Unfortunately its always the people who pay the price.
There, fixed it for you.
The problem is the politicians, they are the ones not able to stop spending others money.
Unfortunately its always the people who pay the price.
There, fixed it for you.
The problem is the people, they are the ones not willing to hang politicians.
Unfortunately it's always the people who are hung instead.
There, fixed it for you.
Universal truth.
Or, Earthling truth, rather.
Day of reckoning, soon.
Save the People or Save the Banks? That is the question.
I hardly think there's going to be some committee formed with everybody holding hands to decide the outcome of that...
If you don't believe me, go ask Moses & Ramuses II
Any ideas about how to play this should things go from bad to worse?
Greek fire....BITCHEZZZZ!!
No austerity for banksters though eh!
Disgusting
it IS thr END of the WORLD.................. for BANKERZ!
Once a country defaults and succesfully re-establishes itself it becomes the poster child for "How I fucked my banker and lived" saga to be played out by every underwater country out there...can have that...can we?
Long live Sparta!
Absolutely Rob!
They prove that you don't need foreign bankers to revive themselves it will be a major smack in the Face to the TPTB and a revolutionary moment in the minds of billions around the world. It might take 10+ yrs but they have the geographical advantage and some niche industries worldwide consumers value.
Viva Greece!
Then why is nobody paying attention to the Iceland example?
Because unlike you they know that Iceland is irrelevant to this discussion. Go and read some history.
But the problem is that you DO need banks for a modern society - just not the kind of "banks" that trade sovereign debt leveraged 100-1. Banks arose to satisfy a need - credit. Instead of saying "evil banks" we should say "huge financial institutions that make money by sloshing debt from one side of the ledger to another". Small local banks are sound because their primarcy concern was making safe loans (without all the reselling) and guarding capital. Thus, no FX trades or risky investments.
I wonder if he will be hung in the halls of Congress and set an example. F Congress
Fuck, it's only 3 million people in pain. Here 50 million are in pain with no Fed relief. It gonna get a lot worse before the 535 power elites throw someone a meatless bone. And then what? They only decided to end WW I when 100 million died. That was 100 years ago. How many will suffer and die with the current population ratio?
Sorry but you sound, well, looney. There is secret group debating when wars are going to end. Jesus! It's the consequences of the human condition and the yearning for power. The Greek tragedy is directly attributable to the promise of our time -"something for nothing." They elected folks who did exactly what they promised the voters - lived beyond their means. Greece should return to the drachma, cut the 13th,14th, 15th and 16th "pay" (for nothing), devalue the currency and work on tourism. Remember - those three million have been having a party on someone else's dime all this time (which is, of course,why they joined the EU in the first place).
High on a hill was a lonely goatherd, bitchez!
I am assuming that there are zero moneys flowing from the IMF and the ECB to Greece at this point....I sure hope so....
This is a Titanic experience....where the Captain better know everything that is going on in real time to save as many people as he can....some will die...but its the maximization that you have to worry about now...
and I said 2 years ago..the first one to default wins...the 3rd or 4th country won´t get off as good...
Over a month ago there was a UK Guardian story about how Greek parents were leaving their little children in the streets. I's say it's pretty Fukin bad.
One time, the Enquirer said that Greece would be bailed out by the Andromedans.
Did they do a follow up? You can't write something like that and leave people in suspense.
What do they want in return?
Surly they have ROI to worry about...
It's not bad. I chartered a Russian cargo jet to take the little children to Malaysia where they are gainfully employed in a toy factory.
Don't believe da hype!
None of this is about money - it's about power.
For the last 400 years, since the banking families of middle Europe capitalized on the afterglow of the Renaissance, the West has been the dominant force on this planet. This has led to everyone in the West enjoying a better lifestyle than those less fortunate around the world - and ironically, it's those less fortunate people who are, in fact, the ones that support the West in that lifestyle.
The East is now rising. The Chinese have (very clear-headedly) removed virtually all manufacturing capacity from the two mainstays of the Western Capitalist society - the US and Britain. This has weakened us immensely.
Europe has enjoyed umbrella protection from the US for the last 60yrs, but they now recognise that the game is nearly over and are looking towards a future without the US as a powerful ally. The European mainland regard the current financial system as an 'Anglo-Saxon' invention that serves no one outside the US and the UK particularly well any more.
The bitching and infighting between the Western nations is not helping matters either.
China is beginning to secure trade deals with a number of (non anglo-saxon) energy producing countries via a barter or gold system. The financial system currently in place, constructed by the US and Britain, is about to become redundant. We are about to be cut out of the deal.
And a lot of countries out there have scores to settle with the US and Britain.
The dire impact at the end of the Anglo-saxon concentric 'financial services' on the non-manufacturing nations that import energy cannot be overstated.
Believe me, I've been down the rabbit hole, I've cursed bankers and politicians in the West, been disgusted at their wealth and hubris and moral bankruptcy, but the fact is - it's become a fight to retain our standard of living, if not a fight for survival in the longer term.
I like my TV, my supermarket and my nice warm house. I don't want to lose them. I don't want my kids to live in a third world country.
Bankers and politicians may well be scum, but we're all in the same boat now.
"it's become a fight to retain our standard of living, ... I like my TV, my supermarket and my nice warm house."
"OUR" standard of living ? Obviously, for some, the US is incapable of producing enough food to feed itself, or building energy-efficient housing.
Better most of the world suffer poverty under the rule of "our" servile dictators, drug lords, despotic sheikhs, and corrupt banksters. Better we all sacrifice to support the global militarism that protects the global corporations, which in turn make the polluted and strife-ridden kind of planet you want your children to live in. Or so you imply.
And doubtless you want everyone to share in fulfilling your dream.
I don't disagree with you - but I have concluded that we live in a shitty world, where the shit floats to the top and good men are powerless to stop it. I'd love a world in which everyone gets along, shares, cares for the environment and demonstrates love for their fellow human. But that isn't where we find ourselves right now. Maybe that's on the way. Here's hoping.
I disagree wth your assumption. India, China and the "less fortunate" have been given an incredible gift. They went directly from dirt farmers into the industrial age in one generation by piggy-backing (or in China's case, stealing) the scientific products that took the West hundreds of years to produce. We are passing through a time of commodity-based economics (mainly energy) unlike any time before. New technological advantages will make this obsolete BUT it will not solve the political credit problem ("You can live beyond your means by stealing from your kids").
Man, the American standard of living was sold down te river long ago. There is no one on our side here, not the bankers or the politicians. They are in it for themselves only, which is why they are feathering their nest like mad, while the dollar still buys something.
Seriously, why did we sign nafta, GATT etc? Why did Clinton give missile technology to china? Why have we offshored everything of value (financials are not valuable)?
Why are we destroying te faith in our money? Why do we go into debt fighting bogus wars for globalism?
Soros flat out told us that the time for America was over and it's chinas time.
You better be doing something to prepare for a third world like America because it's coming and it will take a generation or two or three to fix this mess.
I hate to tell you cleavage, but you are wrong, wrong, wrong. America will not succumb to becoming a third world country. That is a preposterous statement. Are things a bit screwed up right now? Yes but to suggest that America will fall to a third world status is just idiotic thinking. It makes for great drama and nothing else. The whole world is feeling the impact of being over indebted. Simply put, the worldwide value of assets no longer equal or surpass the value of the debt that was extended for those assets. It is only fitting that the dumb asses who extended the credit will do everything in their power to protect their interests. Wouldn't you? Sure you would. I think the events unfolding in Greece are exceptionally positive in that it appears that the banksters and politicians can not change the course of a natural market correction and maybe the people of Greece will rise up in uni-some and kick these greedy bastards out of power. There will not be any apocalyptic events either. What is going to happen is that there will be a lot of wealthy individuals and corporations that will loose a lot of money, hopefully. Prices will fall worldwide and there will be a whole new set of investors who will profit greatly as prices decline. It is this newly created wealth that will propel America back to the top. Remember one thing cleavage. Savers always finish first!
Sorry iPhone induced double post
Triple post.
Shizer.... Damn Steve.
your avatar makes it ok.
It seems that all this euro printing is having a major inflationary effect in Greece. The inflation is going to be even worse when it hits Spain, Ireland, Potugal and etc. etc. etc. Good thing I bought alot of gold and stocks just like my government wants me to.
And The Wurlitzer Plays on ....
At what point do the drug dealers of the world no longer care if their indebted junkies live or die?
Thanx for the Biblical Reference in the Title.
For years they have demanded us to make bricks without straw and now they demand a double tally. The pharoas of this world want their slaves for sure. It won't be long now. We are the last generation.
I checked out Greek real estate thinking I might find some bargains. No bargains. Real estate is still outrageously high there.
apartments in big cities, especially athens, have been coming down in price, probably 40% down from what they were 2 years ago (except in a couple of swankier areas where the rich folks can still pay a million or two), and they have at least another 50% down to go from here- but outside of that, the market here has for the most part simply frozen up. nobody is buying anything, and too many people who would sell are still dreaming that the crisis will pass and are holding out for idiotic prices that make no sense in the current situation. It will take some time yet for more people to understand this. prices will come down, but yeah, the greek real estate market was never as simple as in most other countries to begin with, and instead of prices coming down, the market has simply dried up and disappeared.
you _can_ find bargains, but theyre rare. give it a few years and there will be bargains. By then though, you'd better be paying in gold. Until the 70s that was real money for such transactions, and people haven't forgotten that. (the FRN took over in the 70s and reigned until the euro came in.. drachmas were for daily spending, not for savings)
They chose the wrong people to pull this crap on. Just goes to show TPTB don't understand people, culture or history.
Greeks have a very different collective memory than those of other European countries, namely because of tourkokratia. Indeed, the cultural legacy of tourkokratia and the corruption and neoptism of the subsequent prokriti class is one of the many reasons why tax avoidance is so socially acceptable in Greek culture and why they have such an *interesting* relationship with the state (you hate it until you are in it, and when you are in it, you milk it like mad), and why many, particularly outside the Europeanised centres, will find clever ways to avoid the hard consequences of any austerity deal.
Greece shares many similarities with other border countries such as Poland, pulled constantly between the imperial ambitions of Europe and Asia, often disappearing as self-determining sovereign entities for many years, even centuries, at a time.
At some point, the Greeks will drop the Nazi jibes and see this for what it really is: "europakratia" -- a new "Ottoman yoke", but with a Protestant Christian face.
Then the backlash will really begin.
Deleted
Ultimately, this is about more than Greece. If they are "allowed" to default, it changes the calculus for a lot of other countries defaulting.
A default will impact all the debt floating around that is guaranteed by Greece and funded by the ECB or Greek Central Bank. It is not the end of the world, but it seems hard to maintain 1300 on the S&P in the event of a default (especially with an earnings backdrop that has been mediocre and raised as many questions as it has answered).
What about all of the unaccounted for CDS on Greek debt floating around out there? Someone's going to be left holding the bag and it's probably a major institution with ties to everything. Unless this entire "exteend and pretend" has been a clever way of reducing CDS exposure to a more palatable level so the eventual default wouldn't trigger the end of the world? Wishful thinking...
this posting is clearly one of your better....
default here and default now!!!!! this is the year of jubilee - let freedom ring throughout the land....
evil irresponsible banksters will have to take it in the ass....and that, my friends, is the sound of music....
Oh the poor Greeks.... their 'free lunch' is ending.
Greece - a 2nd world country who's participation in the Euro instantly raised them up to 1st world status.
A cushy, bloated, public sector orientated lifestyle supported by Germany with its export-orientated economy selling high-qualiity/high-tech products. Greece exports what...olives?
Dear Greece, hope you enjoyed it. Reality time now. Time for your standard of living to fall to that of Turkey or Macedonia where it really belongs.
It seems obvious to anyone who hasn’t become locked into a negotiating stance that the whole austerity idea isn’t working.
L0L!!! like they tried it?
It seems obvious to anyone who hasn’t become locked into a negotiating stance that the whole DEBT idea isn’t working.
there!
carry on, peterT!
Quote: "The people are fed up and more and more realize that defaulting and costing the foreign bankers money is worth a shot."
Well, that's curious, as all polls conducted so far show that an overwhelming majority of Greeks favour staying in the Euro, avoiding default, although they firmly reject the austerity measures associated with the bailouts. This sounds quite paradox, so my question is: are those polls faked or do the Greeks truly believe they can both have their cake (stay in the EU) and eat it?
they must not poll the people in the streets....they probably also poll it as would you support default which would lead to inevitable pain and suffering and being kicked out of the euro, or keep it like it is......guess which one people pick? the reality is default is not the end for Greece..more and more people understand it...i hope
FWIW Dept:
WWI ___ Great Britain, France, Italy, and Russia with the U.S entering the war in 1917 ___ the opposition was [follow WWII for realignment of allies et.el.?] Germany, Austria-Hungary, and *"Turkey"*
Please use your imagination for the following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1919-1922)
Ps. juxtapose in your mind the betrayal that the Greeks [felt?] still foster [sure, generations have long since passed,... but ?
Note Worthy*___ The Turks were the Ottoman Empire before WWI and had possession of Palestine & Israel
Ref: http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/what-the-fight-in-israel-is-a...
**posted in/ under Israel archive 11/8/02
jmo