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Man Vs Machine: How Each Sees The Stock Market
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Only a lunatic would invest in that.
This should be illegal, its clearly market manipulation, and violates monopoly, + free market principles.
The only corporations that can take advantage of this are corporations with a fiber optic link from accross the street to the exchange. . .
no, no.. they compete with GS and JPM who colo servers at the exch itself.. across the street is for muppets..
So because you won't/can't invest in buying a car everyone should walk to work? Or make bread by hand? You make some non-free market assumptions in you comment.
It's not a free market if someone can buy the whole thing.
can we count this guy as a whistleblower?.....................
linked from dollarcollapse.com:.....................
http://www.moneynews.com/Headline/fed-debt-Treasury/2012/03/28/id/434106?s=al&promo_code=E92C-1
Nos. (plural)
Your bosses didn't like the truth? Where ya been?
Won't be long before skynet is so fast that it starts front running itself.
Computers predicting what computers are going to do based on what people think computers are going to do.... BRILLIANT at this rate we wont even need a real economy to operate the markets by the end of 2012.
Won't be long? You know perfectly well the market engines began frontrunning themselves four years ago already.
You can worry when they start frontrunning backwards from expectations.
That's later in the year.
Hint: It's how Bernanke and the Inkjets will appear to win this.
Watch for it. It will look like a brilliant last minute Hail Mary save. I'm telling you right now, they are already setting it up so they can pull it off.
I say it's a tie between:
All your stock market are belong to us. bitchez!
and
So when does it go 'self aware'?
lol
lol
Hehehe... Lucky me, I frontrunning'em 10 years ago.
I frontrunning myself.
Out of the market.
Not much to see in the first chart.
Second one I see two dogs fucking.
Psychopath!!! LOL
You're supposed to see a decapitated, pretty butterfly!
I see two dogs fucking us - DP (double penetration)
Next time, can you just use the egg & the frying pan analogy?
Tyler,please comment.
"J P morgan closes Vatican bank's account"-The daily telegraph-march 20th,2012
I ain't Tyler, but I'll say this:
When the Vatican and JPM are fighting, it is really hard to choose which one I want to lose the worst.
Maybe they can fire at each other simultaneously and give humanity a respite.
HFT anyone?
It really does look like the matrix now.
When the hell is BATS going to retaliate against NYSE / Nasdaq? I WANT TO SEE BLOOD
Conclusion - do no try to trade under 9.5s using the naked eye. How is this bad?
Bro, what the algo trading programs do is feed parasites like Goldman Sachs extremely detailed information on trading activity which allows them to frontrun the market.
These algos also have the capacity to cause full-fledged flash crashes that can decimate wealth in milliseconds.
But, yea, that's not bad.
Instinctively I agree, but from a free market perspective he's got a point.
If you choose to trade based on quotes from a monthly newsletter and buy a modem, how is that my problem?
As long as people know about this, it shouldn't be an issue (apart from other problems that ZH mentioned and that look significant, such as flooding exchanges with offers that last mere ms).
Don't day trade if you mind that others are faster, but as far as manipulative (when it can be proven) HFT practices are concerned I am against those as well.
P.S.: An even better comparison is placing orders with delayed quote feeds. I do it and I don't mind if someone makes a buck in between. I make an offer at a price that suits me and if gets filled, that's fine by me.
I sorely miss the days when my on-the-fly TA and tape-reading skills would let me print a little money for myself in daily scalping... but seeing charts like this makes me extremely glad I got out of the game before losing it all.
I believe there's still a good living to be made making markets on individual stocks, but it takes big balls, a bigger bankroll, and an acceptance that colo'd algo trading will still fuck you often and badly.
The Algo chart looks like the Dallas Texas at night to me.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/liontx/2449033773/sizes/l/in/photostream/
Tyer blogs from the Tron Universe?
its a human being that has money at stake.
and the stock markets are a zero sum game.
Tyles, please ask techsupport to send log file of the content management system this web-site runs on. You gonna be surprised how scary it looks compare to this nice web-page.
There is no market any more. Its all fake. The markets are all made of "Pink Slime", securitized unicorn skittle poo and ads for "GirlsReady2DateWallets".
9.5 seconds is an eternity. Imagine if the baseball took 9.5 seconds to get to home plate from the pitcher's mound. That would be a 4 mph fastball.
Human reaction time is about 200 ms (many insects and a few birds can react on a microsecond timescale). Latency is about 30 milliseconds if you have a decent connection and decent online broker. That's 230 milliseconds delay between seeing the price and the exchange receiving your order. The spike lasted 500 milliseconds.
This is definitely humanly tradeable.
Tradeable? Perhaps
Tradeable with an understanding of underlying economics and an exit plan? I doubt that very much.
Initial reaction time to an event is 200ms, but not comprehension of the event. You might see the spike and be able to push a button, but which one BUY or SELL? It wll actually take longer than 500ms for you to see the event, process the event, and react to it. You aren't taking into account the transmission of the signal, the processing by the computer, and the delay in appearing on your screen. There is latency in the keyboard as well. By the time you see the event, it will already be over.
By the way, they have proven that certain humans can react faster than their brains can process a complete signal. In fact the initial reaction to start a swing in order to make contact with a 90mph fastball must happen before the brain can even process the visual signal of the pitcher's movement.
So maybe you have special precognative abilities to forsee an algo spike before it happens. Pretty cool man :]~
Good reply to an obnoxious comment :-)
He completely ignored time required to think (think time).
And not only that: if one looks look at 2nd screenshot (which he obviously didn't) one will see over 400 trades. A human can "react" but not trade that fast. HFT vs humans is like like LP vs MP3 - with its analog-like granularity (relatively speaking) it can out-arbitrage a human trader.
Impressive post even though there aren't many words in it :-)
So many dots and lines and circles!!
Let me decode it for you all.
It means BUY AAPL!!
Could you imagine the big bank quarterly numbers without the front running and all the other cheating they are able to do?
For that reason alone don't expect that game to end anytime soon.
bitch please
http://www.whoblackpool.com/images/PDVD_014.BMP
.BMP? For Christ's sake.
Until move to 21st century no one should click on you images.
Step 1 - Buy AAPL
Step 2 - ?????
Step 3 - Profit
Or do I do some Faithilling in front of the Wall Street Bull and proceed to put bread on my cat's head?
Google pays good money for million+ hit Youtube videos.
I think you Faithill with the breaded cat, and be the first segment of the human centiPad all at the same time.
That'll get some YT hits!
"Am I missing an Eyebrow"
"There's your problem"
"When in doubt, C4"
"Holy Crap, RUN"
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
"Use lube"
All apropriate for the financial hegemony and this BATSHIT crazy Algo trading.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxhF7iBueeE
Excellent Nanex/ZH.
The HFTs will destroy the market supports soon, then we get our correction from hell. It will be deep till the central bank supports. The big question will oil sell too?
It may not.
The excuse will be. "We needed more resource’s to monitor this unknown [Fire Wall] breach.” If we only could have hired more public sector resource’s, we would of caught this. Unfortunately, the GOP cut our budget. Again, we stress if only the appropriate staff was at hand, this would have never happened!!
/Sarc.. Watch the future drama unfold in real time.
Why is that a big question? It's pretty simple. It will crash.
Fingers crossed. Totally technical/charts now with algo/HFT running supports on all the main MA's. This needs a flush out. So it will correct via HFT trades, what they do next is the unknown. If they break all the supports then the longs will be cut and we get capitulation.
Chump
Frankly I don't think that any technical or even main stream fundamental analysis matters. I've read so much about oil that it's made me make money only with oil. I've lost on anything else but oil. All those affect its price but it's not the main driver. The main driver for the price of oil is Enron Style pre-pay purchases by JPM and others from Saudis, Qataris etc. Right now it seems that over the ground storage is quite full worldwide.
The law of supply/demand is as strict as a normal natural law of physics. Oil is on its way to $45/barrell. There is quite too much of it above ground.
That doesn't sound too good for gold!
I've been wondering if it could drop to $1400. I hope not but I wouldn't be too surprised if it did: I'd probably stick with what I have and buy more silver (@$16?) as I sold it almost all on way down between $43 and $33 last year.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-golds-critical-metric#comment-2315347
I just posted my thought on the post on ZH. Could you have a look at it and let me know what you think?
I think Gold is going down to $1200 where it will find a strong physical demand. The problem with Gold is that it can be printed via Leases. However, I'm not sure. Gold is central bank's money, it's too tough to be right very often. It can't be eaten and it costs money to store it. Central bank's money....tough cookie.
IMO silver is more important than gold. For our civilization, after Oil, Silver is the 2nd most important element.
No silver = no computer, no iphones, no TVs, no electronics whatsoever. Back to 19th century.
I will get into precious metals in the future, but It won't be gold, it will be silver, since Gold is central banks money. Silver is people's money.
I agree the market is completly dysfunctional re: HFTs. A lot of people talk about money printing pumping equities, that is true in one part that it encourages spec trading when bond/credit markets settle down from CB's money printing. A person I know works in banking, all he checks his credit spreads and interbank spreads. Stocks? He doesn't even check that, doesn't really care. As long as rates are held down by the insane CBs that's all that matter. I guess the argument is that the banks/wall street use cheap money and buy equities, but volumes are still crap. So...HFTs are the supports for the market, simple, they trade on MA's like clockwork. So all I look at is supports that are broken, like last session and the risk trade AUD. A glimmer of hope looking for the doom, so tops could be in to short like 2010 and 2011.
As for oil, yeah you may get your deflation trade like in 2008 (147 top) but war is about to break out any-day with Iran. So it may stay bid over 100
Chump
I am an engineer. What is your day job?
My point is that focusing on Finance only is not enough and probably detrimental. Systems understanding is quite important right now.
Yes the system is fatigued and broken...and arrogant. It's probably ready to collapse completly. Money printing does not paper over decay.
Time? How long does it take for a stress fracture to take down a bridge if left unchecked, or painted over?
The markets have stress fractures spreading in all directions. Correction coming may lead to a crash, then more printing, inflation and war. Within a year. This year.
Let's pretend it crashes. What are you going to do? Guess what? A 10K to 20K document will appear out of nowhere. Pre-written ekm. Save this post. I warned you.
I never said it will stay there. It will crash, few trillions of derivatives will vanish, few months of low cost oil makes people feel good and they start spending. Same as in 2008. Then it starts again, back up to $100.
What new system will buy the derivatives to keep the illusion going forward? Hard question for some, look forward to your reply.
Same as in 2008. Saudi Arabia got together with OPEC and and reduced supply - for real, not a lie as usually.
It depends on what the "system" is. For sure: 1) Producer 2) Consumer.
If a financial intermediary is allowed in the middle (allowed is the keyword), hence producer (Saudi Arabia) colludes with the intermediary (let's say JPM) to screw the consumer.
Can we teach it Tic Tac Toe? It worked in War Games:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeOHEU7Ykyg
OT: The sheeple of Maryland have spoken. Don't expect me to feel a lot of sympathy when they get even more of what they deserve. I did my part and it wasn't close to being enough. In the shadow and strong winds of another debt cieling breach, Ron Paul will leave Tampa with more political capital than the nominee. I'm long "Don't blame me, I voted for Ron Paul" T-shirts and bumper-stickers.
What the algos see in 9.5 seconds:?
Bernake's brain on drugs!
Any questions?
Commerce is our goal here at Tyrell, more Human than Human is our motto.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWPyRSURYFQ&feature=related
If only you could see what I've see with your eyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSQdEkcm6zs
Bladerunner was the movie that got me into Frank Herberts DUNE, which got me into LOTR's, which got me into the whole SciFi genre.
Batty - Fiery the angels fell. Deep thunder rolled around their shoulders... burning with the fires of Orc.
Deckerd - You know the score, pal! If you're not a cop, you're "little people."
Now that the BS session is over - lets get back to the reason for the season - buying PHYZZZZZ!!!
Whoa! Nikkei has gone cliff diving!
Watching ASX200 (aussie markets) which is very gamed by HFT trades. It's hilarious.
Obama Warns GOP Budget Would Make Weather Prediction Less Accurate
One has to ask, is someone worried about rain creating too much Co2 or our US Military raining down on a tyrant in office? Only time can tell. In the meantime, enjoy life. Never fear!
Cycle analysis
http://change-in-trend.blogspot.com/2012/04/wednesday-3-april-2012.html
Skynet 2.0
Completely OT, I apologize in advance to the contributors:
It has been brought to my attention that the real person who posts as Stax (nobody really) has been identified by those who may know said individual in the real world. That being said I feel compelled to offer the following:
1. This is a free speech environment and much of what is said is just for laughs. I have no bone to pick with fat people, funny is funny and we are supposed to be anonymous here for christ sakes. Get over it.
2. You probably have no idea what this place is about so reserve your judgement until you 'get it' or go somewhere else (MSM) with your small mind.
3. If you equate all the contributors to the site as whatever the least of us is (there are people who post to intentionally discredit the site with racist garbage, propaganda, highly politicized crap, etc.) you do not 'get it'.'
4. There is no censorship here and 'we' are not scared away because jackasses occasionally come around mouthing off. Think of this a city bus or better yet a bar filled with colorful actors.
5. If you cannot think for yourself you are in the wrong place. If you invest you will either a) overcome bias or b) lose your ass if you take any advice here without research and forming your own opinion.
I apologize again to the collectif but career type stuff could be at risk due to small minded individuals with BS agendas.
I realize this is FC but would rather not have to ditch my moniker over curious minds. Blast me, but I had to do it.
Free speech is of utmost importance. Whoever get insulted, just suck it up.
Guess my desktop ain't outwitting the HAL 9000 Wall St uses...
Tyler, I believe you missed on the real depiction of the "Man."
The Man should be depicted as a vortex with Goldman and the government at the center point, ala the depiction of a black hole.
god--a bunch of faggots that can't get over their James Cameron Terminator roleplaying fantasies.
Embrace the machines, assholes.
On last blip to generate ZH brain food....
Many have now woken up to see the cancer within. Destroying a wealth system is the MO in elected US Democratic public servant roles. Objective: Complete the agenda goals, and you will be paid handsomely thru debased fiat currency. We promise to exchange your FRN above the peasants .20/ dollar rate.
Capitalism Hits the Fan - Richard Wolff
I hope the Wall Street Urinal will do investigative work in near future. Murdoch still has a few cards up his sleeve. As much as I hate that motherfucker, you will see the snake eating its own eggs. Those poor [look, listen and report] parasites will find their ego has been passed into government controlled undergarments. .. The Media shock factor will be comical.
They see what they are told to see. Until they wake up, all the PHDs in the world will still fail them.
swapping the pattern of trading from days to minutes, and price makers from human beings to copper wafers...and investing for trading? seems rational if no-one has any value left to preserve...a natural corrollary of a market that would otherwise go nowhere.. 1,400 s&p points to go nowhere in a full year, or one that has more than2000 points worth of cumulative daily trading range in a given year (4-5 points a day)..if you arent trading you are, hopefully, in gold.
genesis of skynet
http://youtu.be/4DQsG3TKQ0I
Algos can be beat if you have a calculator with a square root function. That's how I do it anyways.
pictures too dark.
Computers inevitably will become more efficient at any tasks that humans currently do.
Relax and enjoy the ride - we live in interesting times.
And as someone posted earlier: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_singularity
"We will soon create intelligences greater than our own. When this happens, human history will have reached a kind of singularity, an intellectual transition as impenetrable as the knotted space-time at the center of a black hole, and the world will pass far beyond our understanding. This singularity, I believe, already haunts a number of science-fiction writers. It makes realistic extrapolation to an interstellar future impossible. To write a story set more than a century hence, one needs a nuclear war in between ... so that the world remains intelligible."
Just your common or garden extrapolation of an exponential trend out to absurdity. The real world has physical limits which prevent these ridiculous extrapolations from happening.
Or put another way. There is a reason in the 14 billion year history of the universe that the entire place has not been colonised by super intelligent machines and instead this little planet has been by meat and two veg based life, with all it's failings.
If you're living in a super-intelligent society, chances are that there's very little that "needs" to be "done."
Any existing super-civilization has probably wandered off into their own virtual/proxy fantasy realities and have left the maintenance tasks of this physical world to the automatons.
We'd do it too if we could: we want to--but we don't realize our own false assumptions on reality is what holds us back. Much of us spend most of the time trying to shut out or escape from the reality that life is what it is. Television, Radio, Advertising--the whole damn social construct--are all designed as 'reality escape tools.' Look at how many people just booze themselves off into a stupor because IRL sucks. Why? Because of our own predjudices and assumptions.
For some reason, we cannot do as we feel, no--we have to "constrain" our behavior for interaction in the physical reality; but add some modifier to any scenario--drugs, virtual simulation, sports, cinema, et cetera--and our inhibitions are magically removed. It's all psychological and I think the human species would do with a good goddamned shrink.
The problem with the world is that too many people want to take their ficticious beliefs and force them onto the world as some objectivity: if people just lightened the fuck up and behaved as they do when they don't feel societal obligations on them, society would be much better off as whole. Imagine how minds could be freed up to innovate and advance technology and civilization if they weren't preoccupied with bullshit society roleplaying with fiat dollars and subjective stratification systems.
http://capital3x.com/think-tank/decisive-moves-another-trap-or-a-real-one/
C3X goes short yen pairs as they now take the other side of the trade as opposite to long in March
The SEC and CFTC are both a joke as far as policing the markets. You have JP Morgan shorting 3 months of world silver production right now and they even have the nerve to dump huge sell orders at the same time almost daily in the gold and silver markets. The CFTC know full well this is illegal market manipulation yet despite having it called to their attention they do nothing. JP Morgan continues to rake in billions from small investors. Think somebody's getting paid off?