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Market Collapses
Update: Just out from Reuters which could be causing the plunge: No Plans for Financial Assistance for Italy From EFSF
The ES just fell off a cliff. For now there is no news: some speculation attributes the move to news that the supercommittee has been a catastrophic failure and no decision will be reached, but we knew that. Another reason is attributed to Fed member Sandra Pianalto stating that Europe is heading for a recession but that is not news either. Most likely just a case of HFT stop as technicals get hit as the EURUSD slides and selling begets selling. Yes, it is a "broken market" for a reason. Watch for the blame HFT crowd to come out in force in a few minutes on the financial comedy basic cable stations.
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I've become a ZH junikie.
I literally get pissed at Tylers when they don't post for several hours. I want to get on the phone and call them, to tell them to get off their lazy asses and find me some news...
That's when I laugh at myself and go find something to do outdoors.
CRAZY.
Clift = > 3%
Well, I sure wish our currency was tied to Gold, how nice would it be to have your gasoline price go from $3.60 to $3.00 then back to $3.60, all while your at work. LMAO. "Breaking News: Americas currency (w a leverage ratio of 100:1) fluctuated more than 3.33% today"
It wouldn't do that under a Bretton Woods II.
In other news: Escaped mental patient named Bill claims to have vehicle that burns paper as fuel.
Could be the iran missle site has had an explosion or some similiar cirumstance that just happened has caused this rally downward?
get out your note books Patty Edwards on CNBC has some stocks that are gona "POP"
aaaaaand....... Its gone
Dammit, sold my 122 SPY puts yesterday since it was so range bound.
It looks like gold and the euro are, once again, one and the same. It makes me wonder what gold will do when the euro disappears. Will gold be free??
heemmm... trick question? hope so...
the Global Reserve Currency is of course the Global Common Denominator
The paper gold you are watching will also disappear. The real metal is and will continue to be quite different.
They just took 5% of stocks below the 50-day MA so now 40% of stocks are trading above that.
The market is simply extremely overbought after the latest desperate pump so some severe dumps are to be expected.
Heard large macro fund sold on break of 1220 on asset allocation trade- into what?
ha ha HA NO MARKET FOR YOU!
Need ES to take out 1200 to make my life complete, whole and full of purpose once again. Ohhhh PPT, where art thou?
Could someone explain why the EFSF is needed if the ECB has been buying Italian bonds itself? Why doesn't the ECB do this for Greece, Spain, Portugal, etc? Is the ECB limited for some reason?
are you serious? I'll bite
the EFSF is meant to be used (since inception) for small countries and big banks
the ECB is not forbidden from buying Sovereign Bonds in the Secundary Market, it's simply a matter of German Anxiety about how much
sometimes, a little of a thing is good and more of the thing is bad
the term was "Moderation" - that is until Greenspan used it...
Yes, I'm serious. Thanks for your explanation. So it's not really a legal issue, it's a public policy issue.
yes, legally the "BundesBank Principle" states that the ECB can do whatever is needed to achieve the mandate, completely free from any political pressure
which is Price Stability (note that the FED has a dual mandate, the ECB has only one)
but of course monetization in the name of Price Stability is somehow like a firefighter using dynamite to tear down rows of houses in order to save the city from a huge fire, it's somehow difficult to achieve public love and admiration with this method
damn this board ...
ECB can only buy gov-bonds on secondary market. If shit blows up and Italy or anyone else can't sell their bonds in primary market then the country goes BK. That's why they need EFSF levered up to the moon to buy up bonds then sell off to ECB at face value to basically take over entire government bond market, theoretically speaking anyway.
Umm, is there some specific meaning to market "collapse" in finance circles that I am not privy too? In my lexicon "collapse" means falls into a heap with no movement, close to death. Apparently "collapse" means rates go up and Europe lasts only another 5-10 years of monetizing. What did that guy say, oh yeah wake me up when something real happens.. zzzz....
Damn- silver's dropping almost as fast as JPM stock.
heh heh
Market? We have a market? Maybe the overlords have determined that there is nothing left to rape and pillage, so they are taking their toys and going home.
Yes, it is a "broken market" for a reason.
The above statement is dripping with irony. It firstly assumes that the market as it was previously was first of all a market and not a controlled parody of a market and second that it was not already broken.
Maybe breaking the market will actually make it a market. If so, the bids and asks will move to what people are willing to to pay for the stocks and not what some middleman (men) conspire the prices to be. Remove the MMs, the Specialist firms and the HFT computers and then we will see what the REAL and naked market is, not the crony faux market that currently exists.
Try IPO'ing the pieces of crap that have recently come out in a real market!
If the market became "real" then the banks would have to fall back on capital formation of value adding busineses and not crap laddering schemes of fraud companies...
... imagine that?!? and they would be forced to create real jobs to survive.
see! they wait until the european markets close!
forcing germany's hand?
why does gold sell off harder than stocks every time stocks start to tumble?
i thought gold was a 'safe haven' play
First, its paper gold
Second, its paper gold
Third, paper gold went too much too fast (again) because there is too much leveraged speculation.
Fourth, nothing goes up or down in a straight line
Fifth, having a planning horizon longer than a crack addled spider's attention span is helpful when playing with metals.
sixth, you are not stacking for a quick profit
it's insurance
yeah, they're selling their paper gold positions to cover their margin calls
Don't know what kind of market economy you people live in, but I can go down the bank and buy physical gold at a fixed percentage markup to the so-called "paper-only" spot rate (changing every minute or so). All this stuff about the two not being connected at least doesn't wash in terms of building a position in it right now.
How can the paper price be irrelevant when you would have got 3% less gold if you'd bought it yesterday relative to today? Face it, it does matter.
is anything other than "paper" being sold off?
i still see lots of "we buy gold" storefronts and premiums are still high on physical.
Bear raid. Buy the dip, the banksters are.
Everything risk off.
All the chatter from politicians today unnerves the players
like i said yesterday....its nasdaq flash crash time bitchez
here we go, part II coming up
I'd be excited - if some BS spin won't push it right back up tomorrow.
Upcoming rumor: Monti Merkozy had a three way on the phone today and concluded their lives were FABULOUS. Market bounce is imminent.
EFS to Italy ......no wedding soup for you
They don't know what wedding soup is over there.
If you are busting a move based upon Reuters reports you are already done.
All of this was decided last month.
Didn't you get the memo?
This is all just a reason for Super Mario to "save the day."
'Evil pure and simple by way of the 8th dimension."
My take:
news out of "super-committee" has Repubs proposing tax increases for those making 174,500 and above. How? By getting rid of charitable deductions and mortgage interest. Why 174,500? Because rank-and-file Congressman make 174,000. WTF.
http://vegasxau.blogspot.com
Gold is for trinkets, nothing more. It doesn't rust, just like my 25lb box of 5" galvanized screws, so it does have a trace of non-corrosive value. Silver has many more industrial usage, which could easily be replaced by other metals. The fact that a large sum (in today's nominal value) can be stored in a box proves these metals have extra ordinary value is quite hilarious. A smaller box of diamonds is 100x the value of gold. Sell your PM's and start a small business that produces income every month. Constant income versus holding a metal that can be price manipulated. These are not Roman times; price engineering can and will go on forever.
Yup. The PM scam is the biggest "pump and dump" scheme ever realized on gullible doomers in the history of the world, like Bitcoin on the nerd community.
Ya Tammy,thats why Central Banks hold Gold,because it is "tradition".
They said brains,TAMMY NOT TRAINS.
That's funny because the Romans did engineer prices by reducing the amount of that silly archaic white industrial metal in their currency, slowly and methodically so as to gain a continually swelling advantage over all nations that used the currency to exchange real goods. The operators of the engineering were the Roman Armies, strategically placed to as to "encourage continued compliance" in the pricing of goods in the Roman currency. You devalue the currency at the tip of the spear, you control prices.
Ron Paul asks Ben Bernanke, "why not diamonds?" Diamonds are indivisible, their quality is variable, arbitrary, and unchangeable, and in modern times they can be synthesized.
You mention "nominal value", now mention the denomination and whether or not that denomination is fixed. Gold is not yet priced in human heads, but I'm sure, at one point in history, it was denominated by those as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve#Officially_reported_gold_holdings
Pretty dumb, then, that central banks hold a combined 28,398.9 tons of it in vaults. What a bunch of idiots! Waste of space, right?
"Silver has many more industrial usage, which could easily be replaced by other metals."
No, it doesn't. Many applications where it is used industrially is because it the best electrical conductor. It cannot easily be replaced by other metals. And it's anti-bacterial properties, used in clothing and water filters is another application lacking suitable substitutes. Additionally, it is far scarcer above-ground than gold, and given that the silver market is much smaller, it is a good candidate for one of the first markets to expose the fact that there is far more paper than real stuff. So no, I don't agree that price engineering can go on forever.
well soon know if this range break was true...will the PPT come in and save the day? i think not
Maybe the market drop is the PPT selling, because it already owned 100%.
NTAP premarket hurt. One of the few areas that's still supposed to be working is data storage.
But lack of follow-through from ECB to print-n-bail is the elephant in the room
SSRI...Just hit the .618 @ 13.65ish from late april high of the 35 area...nibble nibble nibble!!!
Go "OWL's"!!!
take that field-post down,... yea baby
does the 8th dimension send out memos?
does the 8th dimension send out memos?
It´s typical bear market activity. Nothing unusual. You´ve seen this umpteen times during this now 11-years old bear market and will continue to see it until the bear reverts to bull in maybe 10-15 years. The market has already collapsed by 50% twice during the last decade and such collapses will most likely increase in frequency in the coming years.
to me, a typical bear market doesn't involve what's going on these days!
It's amazing that all the chatter about Europe.... This country has unified national protests taking place in all the major cities in this country. The country doesn't want to admit that this is a source "FEAR" in the markets today. All I hear is Europe, Europe and more Europe.
We ought to start talking about America, America, and more America.
The contagion is spreading and it's on our doorstep today !
When US yields start to rise, we'll know that the time has come.
There is no visible need for bond yields to rise. The world is totally drowning in overproduction, overcapacity. It´s in a stupendous tsunami of productivity increases that will continue to rise for decades to come. There are endless armies of dirt cheap labor. The deflationary forces are extremely strong. Given these conditions the stock market is an overissued and overpriced joke. Commodities prices are ludicrous. Goldman Sachs will most likely go belly up with its hopeless warehousing business.
A shot from the grassy knoll.
Did we just break out of the WSJ's 'super bullish' triangle - to the downside?
Yep. (I called for it yesterday, here.)
Did we just break out of the WSJ's 'super bullish' triangle - to the downside?
I had hoped they would not stoop to QE3. Feeling closer now.
Must have been the HFT momoTwitterbollox... Broken is the word for it, happy when the HFTs ramp the market up, but when the HFT:STOP starts coming TPTB don't like it...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/desperate-hft-algos-scour-twitter-momo-fee...
DavidC
The manipulators have to shake the weak hands out in gold and silver without looking TOO OBVIOUS,so they are letting the markets be markets today and not ramping it up ......yet,3:00 comes soon .
will the FED and the the BOJ intervene to save the euro?
stay tooned for bullshit news @ 11!
Bottom line is that PM holders are the weakest hands on Wall St.
If you notice nobody is "dumping" U.S. Treasuries today, or most retail stocks for that matter.
it's true, partly because it's such a tiny market... and the paper market fucks with the price in way that it shouldn't.
not dumping treasuries is only because the contagion on the surface is in europe - but you know as well that is only for the present moment.
But Robo, what about your contrarian calls on NFLX, ANF, TZOO, and other stocks?
Also you wait and see what will happen to USTs in the next 1-3 years.. you'll get "blowtorched", "slaughtered", or whatever other phrases you like to use. It's only a matter of months, not years anymore.
You know better, Robo. It's like saying that money markets are in weak hands...many on the street use the paper gold as a place to store cash, get gains that are not correlated to the equities. Treasuries, too, are not correlated. It's simply risk-off. PAPER gold is a source of funds at the outset of a decline, as managers offset losses they are taking with gains in their gold. Treasuries are bot on days like today in anticipation of further stock declines. I use ZROZ as the hedge in the T market. And yes, I expect there will be more pain in equities as Europe unravels, and more gains in the Treasury market...for now. And btw, PHYSICAL gold is in the strongest hands of all.
bottom line is you're the weakest hand because you're the one most emotionally attached to the "market." every whipsaw elicits a reaction from you about some gyration in the market as if it has never happened before.
robottrader: for those who think history began yesterday.
I'll vote for long squeeze going into options expiration.
The Plunge Protection Team is on the job, levitating the stock market, keeping it from dropping. Nothing to see here. Move along. Of course, as soon as elites have their new world currency ready for release, things will change rapidly. They will let the markets collapse, and then destroy the dollar, the euro, the yen, and the pound, thereby destroying all paper wealth so that the sheeple will beg for the elites' new currency. The elites will ultimately seize all physical assets that have any debt tied to them.
James Bullard - Federal Reserve Bank of St.Louis President, just said that we shouldn't worry about whats going on in europe and go to Disneyland.
And they bickered as Rome burned because they no longer had credit to buy a violin............
Goldman's forecats from a year ago:
"Goldman Sachs is bullish on the U.S. economy for 2011, and forecasts U.S. stocks will see their third straight year of gains.
The investment banking powerhouse sees the S&P 500 gaining nearly 25 percent to a level of 1450 in the next 12 months, fueled by strong corporate profits, easy monetary policies and an improving U.S. economy. "
http://www.cnbc.com/id/40530212/Goldman_Sachs_2011_Forecast_Stocks_Gold_...
Adviserz, bitchez!
Faz is rockin!!
Mr. Wonderful´s Third Law of Economics:
When a world is totally drowning in overproduction, overcapacity, endless armies of dirt cheap labor and ludicrously overpriced equities and commodities it will have a sizeable net export surplus - with other planets.
is zh saying from the post they are supporting hft trading because yesterday was a classic example of why it shouldn't exist. bought in the am ran all the way up entire day only to see off in the last 1/2 hour cause all those buying were the same people selling later.
There´s nothing wrong with those trading algos - per se. We´re in a stupendous technological bubble on all fronts and of course it´s in trading as well. They´ll probably crash the S&P 500 by 300 points one day but it´ll be for perfectly technical and logical reasons. Markets resemble warfare in that they tend to draw the most amounts in the most hopeless positions and then surround and destroy them.
When the market really collapses, sometime very soon, it will be too late to access your bank cash. Have a stash put away safely now.
and what cash remains in the account should not, under any circumstances, be in a money market.
Drop seemed to coincide perfectly with report Fed's Pianalto said fiscal action was needed and not much Fed can do. I.E. Don't look to us for bailout & Congress better get their act together
The FED is leveraged 60-1 and thus can´t really do much apart from selling its assets AKA contracting the money supply.
Contract the money supply? You mean they'll buy back treasuries with their gold and other assets? Don't think so.
erased duplicate
Looks like Tidefighter and TammyWanger are tag teaming today.
FuckTards.
It's a dismal day, unless you're a central bank opposed to the ECB. The European tradition of backstabbing and intrigue continues. For the rest of us, there is always hope that the windows of Heaven would open up. So far, the septic tank of Hell has backed up into everyone's kitchen sink.
http://georgesblogforum.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/the-daily-climb-2/
regardless of what will or will not happen, aren't you at least hoping for a collapse? i can't imagine why you wouldn't welcome any change my friend. this bullshit multi-tiered awful joke of an economy we have has to end. No we won't start eating eachother, no it won't be like all of those crummy apocalypse movies that have been coming out for the last 5 years, and no the world will not end. There may be some birthing pains but we can do a lot better than what we have now. Reset button engage, for the love of joseph smith. Root for the good guys (us)!
Free money is already here. JP Morgan Chase GIVES you $125 to open an account with them. It is free money, and shows how worthless our currency truly is.
Read:
http://www.amazon.com/Simple-Wealth-Mr-Andrew-Costello/dp/1463523017/ref
Acording to my broker Goldman Sachs has been selling gold contracts to the Annunaki for years and when they arrive here next year they´ll mop up the rest at $2 million per ounce.
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Short crude oil. The world is swiming in oil as everything else. Its elevated price is just a scam. The probability of war is zero. Uncle Sam can´t go to war against Iran because both its flanks are insecure. The left flank goes to the Straits of Hormuz and if that is closed this means crude price $300 and Stalingrad for US forces in Iraq and other US vassal states in the gulf. As for the right flank that supply line goes through Pakistan. It´s shaky enough as it is.
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