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Market Snapshot as Europe Implodes

Tyler Durden's picture


Despite some better-than-expected macro data overnight (admittedly marginal), investors continue to retreat from any European exposure as sovereign stress leads to financial stress and drags non-financials into an austerity-driven slowdown. The snaps wider in credit markets are very reminiscent of crises past when being hedged at any cost was more important than any short-term trade opportunity.

It appears we are entering an endgame of sorts and with the vitriol from Merkel (isn't considering possibility of Euro Breakup), Draghi (don't 'expect' bond purchases forever), Schaeuble (Tobin Tax is warranted, aid is conditional, and Euro 'joint liability' won't fix crisis) growing louder and more strained and where decisions are being forced on a broad swathe of desperate politicians and bankers by a market-driven maelstrom.

Both equity and credit markets are bearing the brunt but credit seems the most aggressively beaten down (beta adjusted):

Main +12 to 177bps

XOver +44 to 738bps (handily wider than a closed HY now for over a week)

SovX +13 to 322bps

SENFIN +20 to 266bps

SUBFIN +33 to 476bps

Main Ex-FINLs +10 to 155bps

Germany +5 to 83.5bps

France +14 to 184bps

PIIGS (average) +18 to 1002bps


GDP-weighted European sovereign risk is breaking to new wides at 260bps (as Greek 10Y spreads among others make new Euro-era wides):


As we have noted in the past, short-sale bans don't work - French and Spanish banks on the list are now notably negative:


European equity indices are a sea of red:

And ES is hurting overnight (retracing more than 50% of the recent swing low-to-high):

Chart gallery courtesy of Bloomberg


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Mon, 09/05/2011 - 08:55 | 1633844 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

Rumors flying about downgrade for Italy coming.

Notice Greece is barely in the news as now it is written off. Italy or Spain (which tries to go unnoticed) next for major economic collapse.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:42 | 1634080 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

If Italy or Spain goes, there's no stopping the train to hell.  Even Ben can't print that much money. 

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:20 | 1634208 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

" If "?


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 11:26 | 1634540 eisley79
eisley79's picture

they can print any amount of money they want, the issue is when does printing money no longer "work", and at what point does the house of cards collapse and all the printed money trigger hyper inflation

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:02 | 1634190 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Bunga Bunga!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 14:40 | 1635302 Tom_333
Tom_333's picture

Halleluja brother. Made serious money today.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 08:55 | 1633848 trampstamp
trampstamp's picture

Buy Mortimor buy

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 08:56 | 1633849 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

The meltdown continues, pass the popcorn please.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 08:56 | 1633852 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Brace for impact Bitchez!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:57 | 1634434 fx
fx's picture

ZH has become a weird place where gazillions of obscure people seem to have gathered for the sole reason to enjoy their  own (and others') gloom-and-doom-posts Which, while sometimes amusing and eloquent for most part lack knowledge, facts and are more and more pure pieces of heavily biased crap. Worthwile financial news and insights are by now far and few between, the quality of this page is descending in lock-step with the S&P, BofA's stock price and the credibility of the poltitical and economic elites. A few more weeks and I am done with this website - unfortunately.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 11:16 | 1634515 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Thanks for coming out. Why read the comments section, then?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 12:12 | 1634696 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

In over a year here, I can't remember any insigtful posts with your name attached. In fact, I don't find your name memorable at all.

Therefore, the exit is that way ====>

p.s. What's there to discuss anymore? The path is clear and the die is cast.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 12:48 | 1634815 edotabin
edotabin's picture

When my fiance asks me what I am doing, I answer that I am reading "destruction porn"  It is true there is a growing amount of this topic out there to fill the void between the crap of the MSM, the way the world really works and what we have been told.

The only thing is that this "destruction porn" happens to be spot on.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 08:56 | 1633853 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

It's hard to tell, for me, ever since I started rocking a new pair of frames everything has goldish or silverish tinge. I'll just assume we're swimming in a sea of red...

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 08:58 | 1633857 rajat_bhatia
rajat_bhatia's picture

So I'm pretty certain my gold wont be much help in the coming apocalypse

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 08:59 | 1633865 Nate H
Nate H's picture

Im pretty certain you are right, unless you have lots of friends who have militia skills.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:59 | 1634179 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

They don't call them Soldiers of Fortune when they're working for anything but Gold.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 08:59 | 1633868 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

Try farmers markets...can usually get chickens and goats for gold/silver.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:00 | 1633870 freethinker4now
freethinker4now's picture

Why is that? You can use it to hit thieves over the head as the try to steal your last crust

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:06 | 1633898 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Time to rebalanced your precious metals portfolio, less gold and silver, more brass and lead.  Stock up on food, it's still cheap and easy to obtain.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:27 | 1633966 coded language
coded language's picture

Have no fear. The bad guys are not going to win. We haven't even begun to fight back yet. Just by buying gold and silver you are freeing yourself of the system. Stay away from the corpoate players in the fix as much as you can. Buy organic, grow a garden, build your communtiy of friends and learn some new skills. Don't turn yourself over to the negativity. Stay strong. Stay positive and be a leader for those just waking up. They have snuck up on us and have a head start. People are waking up more than ever now. There will be some fierce and ugly battles, but in the in end the good and the truth will prevail. They will not succeed.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 11:18 | 1634519 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Amen. Dont forget to practice your new skills, all. Talk is cheap & won't save your bacon!



Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:20 | 1633970 Arthur Two Shed...
Arthur Two Sheds Jackson's picture

Maybe you could sell that morphine you said you'd kill your family with.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:03 | 1634203 snowball777
snowball777's picture

You're right, is no substitute for a functioning brain, troll.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 08:58 | 1633860 mickey boy
mickey boy's picture

this year's high in spread today between 3M euribor and 3m OIS pointing to further escalation in eu banking sector. (funding need anyone?)

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 08:58 | 1633863 freethinker4now
freethinker4now's picture

BRING IT ON.  Got an earful from a buddy for constantly going on about the coming Collapse. "People are talking about you, why don't you shut up about it" Look I said, it's coming and I'm only trying to warn you. He still didn't want to hear. So now I'm done with helping people. BRING ON THE PAIN x

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:03 | 1633885 Nate H
Nate H's picture

As a social observer I am curious as to the real driver of your comment (and there are tens of thousands that feel like you, or more).

Are you rooting for collapse primarily because

1)It brings successful people down and therefore raises your relative standing since you were an underachiever in the capitalist regime?

2)Because you want to be 'right', even at cost of no longer living with cell phones, internet, and imported food?

3)Because you think the world will be a better place somehow post collapse, (provided we dont kill all the animals for bush meat and clear cut forests for heat?)



As I have often said on this site, be careful what ye wish for - there are some gigantor non-linear effects that will occur if the Euro disintegrates - you might not 'enjoy the pain' as much as you might think...schadenfreude is a bitch.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:11 | 1633911 LoneStarHog
LoneStarHog's picture

Hey, chief, how the hell do you cure an illness without taking your MEDICINE?  All this CRAP about people WISHING for a collapse is BULLSHIT.  People want to CURE our problems and make the Country strong for future generations.  Many of us understand the PAIN that is necessary.  We are prepared to endure PAIN, but far less than other unprepared/sleeping Americans.  We are merely attempting to warn people of what they hear in the media and to prepare to SAVE themselves and their families from EXCESSIVE pain. Capiche?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:20 | 1633972 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

The threat of pain to come from the downfall of the corrupt status quo is offset by the pain that is already being heaped on those not culpable for the current fiasco.

What we need is new winners and losers based upon historic precedence ... bankruptcy and moral hazard.  Those who took credit and reaped rewards get to now face all the blame and ... of course ... losses.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:05 | 1634216 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

Nate H @ 9:03

What about the fellow's actual words? He's trying to warn people about what's coming so they can protect themselves.

So as a social observer, I'm curious about the actual drivers of your comment.

1. psywar troll for the DOD

2. deep denier who cannot fathom what might well be approaching

3. other

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:35 | 1634347 Nate H
Nate H's picture

3. Other


Mainly as someone who has studied social systems and recognized the overshoot symptoms of our own, and was rooting for its quick demise and rebirth, but after delving deeper discovered this was naive -  this complex system won't work well (or at all) in reverse and there is a real, non-zero chance of entire grids and supply chains going down - (i.e. forever) if a major currency fails (Japan we might get away with, but not Euro).  And, to a lesser extent, seen explosion of opinions in blogosphere, mostly by people that have part of the story correct, and get dopamine surges by ranting as Rome burns, but ultimately the rants are empty ego-satisfiers and help nothing in building a sustainable, meaningful future.

as to 1) and 2), I think despite what many think, big (organized) government may soon become our greatest hope. As to 2), no - I am very aware of what some of the trajectories in next few years could be - (though it would be impossible for anyone to know them all, or which one is most likely).

Though I recognize the risks, my gut pattern recognition (based on reading history) is that things will be better than most fear/imagine.  But still a nasty bottleneck around the corner. Though energy is the driver, I am not worried about resource shortages, etc in near future - I am quite worried about human behavior...


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:16 | 1634267 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture


I too share the same thoughts and often say to myself "Bring it on already.  Let's get this depression rolling."

But it is not as you suggest, to be "right" or to shove it in anothers' face.

I have worked hard my whole life and really have gotten no where.  I cannot retire with anything substantial and will not have a windfall at 60 to keep me afloat another 25 years.  I kept values about money and greed in check and did not go crazy borrowing like many others.  I made some small investments, some worked, some didn't.  The point is:  I am frustrated by being taken advantage of by the greed that encompasses this country and what Wall Street stands for.  The corruption is pervasive.  So, if someone doesn't want to acknowledge what is coming, I say "bring it on".  Nobody gave a shit about me when they were borrowing to finance their lifestyles, so I don't give a shit about them when this ponzi crumbles and leaves many, if not most, of those pigs in shock.



Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:10 | 1633914 LoneStarHog
LoneStarHog's picture

Duplicate...MFDS system!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:14 | 1633937 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

4) other: the longer it goes on the worse it will be.  It IS coming so lets get it out the way, sitting around waiting sucks.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:20 | 1633971 freethinker4now
freethinker4now's picture

1) To your first point. Not successful people who becam welthy through hard work. Hence why I am personally trying to tell my firends to prepare. The ones who I don't believe deserve it, I don't tell.

2) "no longer living with cell phones, internet, and imported food". I personally don't see an apocolypse coming. I do see a major change in how we as a society run our economies and our world i ngeneral.

3) Everything comes in cycles and thats where we are now. Coming to an end in this current cycle. The world will continue, the sun will come up in the morning. Life will go on but in a different form. We are living through one of the greatest times in human history, embrace it.

4) Other, yes that too. NA naa I was right. You should have listened. Best of luck to you in the years ahead.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:30 | 1634013 Nate H
Nate H's picture

if we could somehow purge our system of (huge) inequality, environmental degradation, and various social ills and get back to a meaningful cultural carrot other than GDP, and do so smoothly then I too would be rooting along with you. I have studied this for enough though that the financial/currency mechanism is too intertwined in our daily lives and a true break there might just break everything due to loss of exchange ability in a world where import substitution policies are suppressed.  OECD nations are NOT prepared for a major currency to fail. Immediate response would be martial, and they aren't prepared for supply/medicine/supply chains etc. (e.g. little to no antibiotics are produced in USA, 35% of our nitrogen imports come from one carribean island, etc.) 


I think the system is messed up and we should be constructing a better paradigm, but not be so smug that the end of this one naturally gets us to a better one - i.e. the chronology is backwards

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 11:02 | 1634461 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

curious, which island?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:06 | 1635427 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

The U.S. went from being the world’s largest exporter of nitrogen fertilizer in the 1980s to becoming the largest importer in the 1990s. Domestic production of nitrogen fertilizer declined during the 1990s as the price of domestic natural gas (the primary source of nitrogen) increased because of demand for natural gas in the U.S. expanding faster than production. Imports of nitrogen—mainly from Trinidad and Tobago, Canada, and Russia, all with lower natural gas prices—quickly filled the gap.

rather near. . . Venezuela, hmm.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:26 | 1635906 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

thanks CA...another sobering statistic from the article:

"Today the U.S. imports over half of the nitrogen and 80 percent of the potash fertilizer used on its farms."

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 11:48 | 1634606 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

WARNING: Is Nate H a Marxist?

Who is We? Are you honestly supposing that big government is the answer? That it can somehow magic away inequality and social ills? That it can establish meaningful culture? I hope you are not proposing a We, as in the government.

Because that sounds like a Totalitarian State there, buddy. Everything under the State. I want no part of social engineering, and would rather socialist scientists stop taking my earnings to then meddle in my & my neighbors affairs. The system is so unstable precisely because of Central Planners' manipulation on top of manipulation, eating away at the links of hidden complexity which makes our way of life possible. Read Leonard Read's "I, Pencil." please.

If the government were to scale back, America would bounce back. But the rent-seeking Academic, Corporate & Government Planners are busy building the kind of State which would fictitiously "cure" the inequality, environment, and society, while actually draining the wealth of the productive. One may observe the world, but using force to "ensure" some particular outcome across broad society will do more harm than good. The US Treasury is empty. Big (organized) government spent it all.

I want to be free. If it takes collapsing the present Authoritarian State to win Liberty, so be it. I know that the parasites enmeshed throughout the government will not go easily. Other peoples' money is an acquired taste.

Forgive me if i have mischaracterized your argument, but be aware I oppose Marxist "Big (organized) Government" in all its forms. Many here also do. Perhaps that is why some wish for the collapse. Or perhaps not. I have no business guessing what others think, nor forcing them to think my way.

Yours in freedom,




Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:21 | 1634284 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

4)Other: He may actually care for his fellow "man" and wants them to be prepared for the coming doom!


Well, at least that is the category that I fall within......

And BTW, for your social observer categories 1)I am quite successful and highly educated 2)I do not want to be right because I understand the impact it will have on the most important people in my life (my family) 3)I think the world is quite lovely like it is b/c most everyone alive today has a fairly high standard of living and actually "have it good"...

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:23 | 1634296 Ethics Gradient
Ethics Gradient's picture

The collapse can achieve anything and everything - although it rather depends who you talk to.

It will bring about the end/new begining for socialism. It will ruin/reinvigorate the arts. It will rid the world of plutocrats (either that or make them stronger). It will bring starvation or plenty of high quality local food etc, etc.

In all likelihood, it would do all of the above. It would rather depend on where you live. The theme that runs through all Collapsophiles is a belief in greater self determination.

This entire website is devoted to assist in bringing about an enormous crash. It's banned in some companies because of the effect they feel it could have on their staff. But surely that's like a turkey voting for Christmas....but then I imagine TDs phys holdings would be enough to buy a small country post crash.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:35 | 1634350 Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

"As a social observer I am curious as to the real driver of your comment (and there are tens of thousands that feel like you, or more).

Are you rooting for collapse primarily because..."

Observer notices large boulder peal off from rock face and begin to plummet to campsite below.

Observer yells to campers:

"Look Out! A large rock is going to hit you! Run!"

Nate H then replies:

"As a social observer I am curious as to the real driver of your comment. Why are you rooting for that rock to hit that campsite?..."

Nate H. doesn't realize they are not rooting, they are observing and everyone else is blind.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:05 | 1633895 LoneStarHog
LoneStarHog's picture

When the collapse comes, they will line-up to SOCIALIZE your preparations.  Be sure that you are more than willing to share your supply of LEAD.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:05 | 1634219 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Another one who thinks the entire world will behave as he would.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 11:05 | 1634474 Waffen
Waffen's picture

I will gladly exchange some of my preps for:







(I may even exchange one of my Duck eggs for an Ipad, I've always wanted one).

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:07 | 1633899 Awakened Sheeple
Awakened Sheeple's picture

Nothing you can really do to open some people's minds up. I've warned family and friends but you can't prepare for them. Hopefully things don't get as bad as most people predict. :/

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:22 | 1633982 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

I was talking with a prepper friend last night about it.  Neither of us want a collapse (it would really suck big time), but if it comes food and water are our main concerns (if you need medical help you would be screwed).  The longer TPTB can kick the can, the more time we have to prepare.  I like shopping at the grocery store, raising (or trying to raise) your own food is tough, hard work.  I would never "cheer on" the collapse of the system, because there will be a great deal of death and destruction as a result.  I do understand your frustration with trying to "wake" people up to the real concerns out there, but most people won't (or can't) contemplate the future you are trying to describe to them.  Take the time to watch this video from analyticalsurvival (very good source of information on prepping) regarding "warning" people.  I think it will help:

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:27 | 1634001 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."

John Kenneth Galbraith

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:31 | 1634018 RSloane
RSloane's picture


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:56 | 1634153 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Most people "get it" or they don't.  There aren't many cattle that are willing to jump off the moving truck on the way to the slaughterhouse.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:06 | 1634221 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Except Keynes, he was a proud flip-flopper.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 11:07 | 1634489 gwar5
gwar5's picture

I like it!

Snidely, you got a whole lotta good quotes. Keep em coming.


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 12:44 | 1634803 Conax
Conax's picture

Very good. Another grab for my quotes file.. This place is a goldmine.


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:30 | 1634014 DogSlime
DogSlime's picture

I get that all the time.  They don't want to hear.  Even when I show them the figures which pretty much prove that a financial disaster is inevitable, they don't want to hear.  They say I'm "a bit paranoid".

I convinced one of my friends to buy some gold.  All the others have declined - "too risky".  They have their money in ISA accounts and bonds.  In some cases, in BANK bonds!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:36 | 1634040 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Tell them one time... When you are both sober and, preferably, alone...

Let them have lots of time to consider what you have said. Do not return to the subject, ever. If you continue to harp on the subject, any subject, you accomplish nothing except possibly losing some friends.

Never forget: People's fear of change is almost as great as their fear of death.

If you manage to change one persons mind you should consider that a great accomplishment!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:32 | 1634026 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

It was you, you fucker, you caused it!

You're a witch, knowing when things are going to happen.

No...not knowing, causing I think.

Yeah, you fuckin' caused it, you did.

You bastard!  Well we are see to it that you don't cause anything else, ever.

Get the rope, boys!

(coming soon to a backyard near you.)

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:45 | 1634090 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Football is starting, the World Series will be coming soon, and hockey too.  Jersey Shore and American Idol, Dancing with the Stars......don't bother the masses will their impending economic collapse.  They're too busy watching tube.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:09 | 1634238 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Football reminds me of the Romans, the World Series is too boring to contemplate, hockey makes me want to punch things, as does Jersey Shore...American Idol and Dancing with the Stars remind me that more people believe they are talented than actually are.

Mostly, TV makes think that maybe eugenics has gotten a bad rap.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:27 | 1634307 EHM
EHM's picture

No UFC reminds me of the Romans. Bloodsport is always popular towards the end.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:27 | 1634308 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

whoaa there now DB, lets not put football in the same category as world series, hockey, jersey shore, AI, Dancing, etc....well, at least college football.

why college football? b/c it is alot of 'kds' that are doing something they love and they only get 'paid' a small amount of money to do it......only a few will make it to the pros so the majority are doing it b/c of love of the game....

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 11:04 | 1634471 gwar5
gwar5's picture

I try to do he same thing and get the same sort of responses. The only time they listen is when the market goes down, gas goes up, or EU riots are televised and they wonder what's going on.


I'll never stop though. I don't want them to be wiped out and have to move in with me when the SHTF!





Mon, 09/05/2011 - 08:59 | 1633864 meatball
meatball's picture

Can't they all just print more money to make the problems go away?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:04 | 1633889 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Can't they all just print more money to make the problems go away?.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:09 | 1633909 Mike2756
Mike2756's picture

I heard praying works.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:23 | 1633986 LoneStarHog
LoneStarHog's picture

How did that work with the lions?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:28 | 1634003 Mike2756
Mike2756's picture

The lions prayed harder!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:11 | 1634247 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Billy Sims and Barry Sanders, hallowed be their names.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:12 | 1633925 fwchiro
fwchiro's picture

Yes and all that yellow metal will be useless...if fact I will take yours if you are still keeping some of the barbarous relic

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:27 | 1633994 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

"Can't they all just print more money to make the problems go away?"

The "Zimbabwe Solution"?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:01 | 1633874 WoodMizer
WoodMizer's picture

Please keep posts short and on topic.  As a recent member of the ZH community I emplore other new members to respect ZH by, supporting claims with evidence, and avoiding wild speculation.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:05 | 1633897 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Who died and left you in charge?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:09 | 1633903 WoodMizer
WoodMizer's picture

I am just sick of reading hunderds of posts filled with crystal ball projections that give no supporting evidence.

Don't let ZH turn into HuffPo

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:18 | 1633957 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

You are a recent arrival. Zero Hedge is what it is...

If Tyler Durden wants to change the site it's up to him/her to do so...

We do not need anyone coming to this site and deciding, unilaterally, to alter the site or it's content...

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:23 | 1633985 freethinker4now
freethinker4now's picture

WoodMizer must love the EU. OOOoo we're just one big single minded happy entity...DO NOT THINK OR EXPRESS ANY FORM I feel so warm inside

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:33 | 1634028 WoodMizer
WoodMizer's picture

Personal baseless jabs do little to further dabate.  I am an anarcho-capitalist.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:31 | 1634016 WoodMizer
WoodMizer's picture

I respect your position; freedom of speech is what makes ZH my home page.  I hope Tyler continues to keep ZH as free as possible.

I think some of the more speculative and off topic arguments, should be explored on the message boards.


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:44 | 1634086 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

We don't care what you think about how ZH is organized and managed...and, by continuing to push your agenda you will convince us that you are a troll.

Is that really what you want us to think of you?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:18 | 1634276 NumNutt
NumNutt's picture

Sure thing King Turd of Crap Island, now shut the fuck up and get in line with the rest of us. Welcome to fight club.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:28 | 1634312 EHM
EHM's picture

In that case fuck off.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:57 | 1634439 gwar5
gwar5's picture

When you start your own prissy website, please let us know, so we can block it.


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:27 | 1634002 HyperLazy
HyperLazy's picture

I have a crystal ball; its usually foggy, misty and cloudy but suddenly I can see a tall dark silhouette in your future!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:34 | 1634032 RSloane
RSloane's picture

There is nothing out there, including ZH, that could into the steaming pile of emo goo that is the Huff Post. Well, maybe talkingpointsmemo but that comes with their name.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:38 | 1634051 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

Well, I don't want to burst your bubble, but ZH has a cult following among some of the fringe elements of our society.  There are some who have no clue what the posts are about, but find solace in being amongst their peers and encouraging one another about such things as survival preparation, buying only PHYSICAL PM's, and last but not least "I think the shit has really hit the fan this time".  It does not seem to bother any of them that the "end" has happened almost every day for several years.  This time is really the big one.  Until tomorrow that is.

Having said that there are plenty of money managers, hedgies, day traders, macro economists, philosophers, etc., and those here to learn more about the inner workings of high finance.  For whatever reason the PM collectors have the loudest voices and comment the most.  You will certainly not change ZH, but it is a great site and plenty of the commenters are some of the brightest people you will ever come across.  If you stick around you will see reading the comments sections is like separating chaff from wheat.  Think of it as a bar with a lot of people talking over one another. After awhile you will recognize names that you want to pay attention to.

Welcome, now back to the corner and shut your goddamn mouth!  If its your first night, you have to fight, bitch.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:51 | 1634416 Hulk
Hulk's picture

No counter party risk Bitchez! Ain't it a beautiful thing !!!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:53 | 1634414 gwar5
gwar5's picture

So, don't read the ones w/o suppporting evidence, that way you won't get sick. Changing your own boorish behavior is easier than asking strangers to change theirs. I'd give you supporting evidence for that but then you'd just question the link -- so put your middle finger to good use and google it yourself, take your pick. 





Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:11 | 1633920 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Can you kindly request to TPTB to come to clean, be honest and stop spinning so we won't have to try and put the pieces together ourselves? Thanks in advance.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:16 | 1633939 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

The evidence comes after the crime. ZH is all about frontrunning the crime and more at finding the clues of the comming crime than the proof of the crime.

You'll learn my little padawan :)


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:40 | 1634064 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Think of ZH as a collection of "Precogs" coming together to visualize economic pre-crimes. 

Posting whatever pops into their heads, to be chewed up and mostly spit out by the others.  The Cliff notes welcome is that a collapse is coming, banksters and politicians are criminals,  gold is good, black swans are not rare they are everyday events and prepare to get your ego bloodied at this intellectual fight club.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:56 | 1634149 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Pretty good take on whats going on here... I am adding one...

We are here watching a slow motion train wreck, in real time, together. We have made a collective decision that the current world economy is doomed to failure by excessive credit creation and excessive fiat creation. We are gathered in a theatre where talking, drinking, smoking are allowed... News continously pops up on the screen and, when it does, many of us comment on the 'new' news and try to fit it into the puzzle of 'older' news that has been confirmed over time.

Feel free to add/alter/junk...

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:58 | 1634166 DefiantSurf
DefiantSurf's picture

The first rule of fight club is we don't talk about fight club


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:12 | 1634252 snowball777
snowball777's picture


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:04 | 1634211 Mesquite
Mesquite's picture


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:45 | 1634388 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Implore, bitchezzz!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:01 | 1633877 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Europe is finally toast - or a least a lovely buttered croissant. And how did our friends in Asia do overnight? Panic yet? Here in the good old USA it's all snooze, snookie, and Bud Light. Until tomorrow when, one hopes, maybe a trickle of blood in the streets, at least?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:16 | 1633944 HyperLazy
HyperLazy's picture

All of asia is in the red, except for Pakistan, Indonesia and Sri Lanka. South Korea took the biggest hit; all their indices down ~ %4.5.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:28 | 1633951 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture





I already found this Paki company called: IED INTERNATIONAL.

I don't really know what they produce, but they seem to be making a hell of a profit these days and turnover doubles EVERY YEAR!! IT'S LIKE THE NEW APPLE!!


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:37 | 1634048 HyperLazy
HyperLazy's picture

HAHA - gawd, that kinda humour will land us in all in hell smoking infernal fiat cigars!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:43 | 1634084 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

If I didn't have all my "mad money" tied up in the Zimbabwe Paper and Ink Co., I would surely invest in IED International (ticker symbol: BOOM).

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:36 | 1635761 NumNutt
NumNutt's picture


 EU Stoxx50 2107.27 2107.27 2173.50 2091.40 -113.45 -5.11

And Germany looks worse.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:02 | 1633882 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

This is not implosion. I define an implosion as an at least 10% down day.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:16 | 1633943 LoneStarHog
LoneStarHog's picture

What do you call something that collapses 10% over several days, a DOWNTREND?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:19 | 1633962 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:19 | 1633964 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

yes, unless there's a small UPTREND of 0,1% during at least 1 minute. Than we call it a SOFT PATCH.


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:45 | 1634091 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Transitory?  or HFT Micro Trend?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:51 | 1634128 Mister Ponzi
Mister Ponzi's picture

Take a look at the German 10 year bond yield. Last Wednesday at 2.22%, Thursday at 2.15%, Friday at 2.01%, currently at 1.87%. Epic flight to quality...

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:00 | 1634186 Fuh Querada
Fuh Querada's picture

I fear the quality might not be as high as expected.......for one thing they are denominated in EUR.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:12 | 1634249 Mister Ponzi
Mister Ponzi's picture

Wenn they pay back in new Deutschmarks the quality may be even higher than currently assessed. You never know...

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:21 | 1633978 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

It's just socialisme at work. THE SYSTEM WORKS!!


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:07 | 1633892 doggings
doggings's picture

Got an earful from a buddy for constantly going on about the coming Collapse. "People are talking about you, why don't you shut up about it" Look I said, it's coming and I'm only trying to warn you. He still didn't want to hear. So now I'm done with helping people. BRING ON THE PAIN x

people just dont want to hear, or believe it

try quoting Ayn Rand, 

"you can hide from reality, but you cannot hide from the consequences of reality"

then tell him not to bother coming round yours when it's too late, and walk away.

this is Darwinian natural selection at work, those with inferior reasoning abilities are not going to make it.  

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:12 | 1633924 Awakened Sheeple
Awakened Sheeple's picture

I've never understood why advocating social darwinism is considered taboo.

To quote T.D.


"Lets evolve. Let the chips fall where they may."

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:22 | 1634294 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Perhaps because you're unaware that you're one of the chips?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:40 | 1634065 cwilli01
cwilli01's picture

Just Make sure you're reading and considering more than just ZH.

Tyler's been spewing gloom and doom since at least June, 2009, and we know how the market has moved in that time.


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:56 | 1634150 Awakened Sheeple
Awakened Sheeple's picture

Oh I've done quite well since the '09 lows, not just in PMs. Whover says you can't time the market in this environment is full of shit. Who knows, maybe we'll have a fresh banking/collapse every two years. :)


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:10 | 1633918 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

4 trading days this week and ALL of them will be NEGATIVE! It does not matter what politicians will say...and not do...what Benster will say...and cannot do....first there has to be a lot of fear...a lot thereof, scared shittles politicians, even more scared shittles 401Ksters...etc! S&P below 1000 and then, then we might get something! QE2 didn't do shit for the job market, it's official, it's public and this is the main problem, "how can we get the bancheros more money without the street mob starting a riot?"!?!?!?

Next week, quo vadis!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:17 | 1633955 DefiantSurf
DefiantSurf's picture

I'm sorry Joe, Woodmizer says you cannot post predictions without supporting links

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:59 | 1634175 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

I "predict" bunches of sarcastic comments directed at Woodmizer.  My proof?  Your comment, for one!  :>D

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:18 | 1633963 Mike2756
Mike2756's picture

Nope, they have a plan, as soon as the prez gets back frow screwing around. Permanent unemployment until you retire, india has shown us the way.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:13 | 1633927 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

First ABN Amro says they are a zombie bank....

Than Deutche banks says the same...

talke about boosting confidence in the markets :)

We all know when banks tell this to us themselves that the problems are X1000!


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:14 | 1633929 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Saturday I bought all the silver dollars that were for sale at the local farmers/flea mkt. Almost 200 and mostly Peace Dollars. No Chinese copies...Silver just became a little more scarce in these parts...

Like the US Gov, I have not audited my silver for a couple of years... but I am not interested in selling so it doesn't matter at this time...

Here is a funny video about GLD, which was a recent topic here...

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:16 | 1633942 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture

Hows Iceland getting along these days?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:23 | 1633987 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Their citizens lost 40% of their wealth.

The jobmarket is death and everybody lives from the land.


Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:37 | 1634047 RSloane
RSloane's picture

I sense a possible trend.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:51 | 1634409 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Yeah, new trend is cod fish, potatoes and cabbage... and an occasional mutton stew.

Healthy but boring...

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:39 | 1634058 DefiantSurf
DefiantSurf's picture

sounds more sustainable than unbacked fiat

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:42 | 1634375 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Presisdent of Icleland said this Sunday (h/t Drudge) that EU and IMF tried to bully Iceland into making taxpayers pay to bailout the Landesbanki collapse and losses.  They rejected it. they are doing much better than Greece, and don't have the sovereign debt hanging over their heads. 



Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:32 | 1635543 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

hosting their annual music festival in October, with

Airwaves newsThe latest updates from the festival 9/5/2011 : You Are In Control - Creatives In The Digital World

You Are In Control is an international conference that will be coinciding with Iceland Airwaves this year. The conference takes place October 10-12 in Reykjavik.

Industry professionals will present and discuss various current topics on matters such as collaborative creativity, cross-platforming, engagement marketing, open source and copyright. Speakers this year include Iain Forsyth & Jane Pollard (UK) who have been shaping the future of digital and creative marketing.

DIY folks.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:34 | 1634031 eurusdog
eurusdog's picture

I don't know, I woke up this morning and the world hadn't ended yet? Hmm

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:43 | 1634083 cwilli01
cwilli01's picture

Seriously. There's a wicked case of groupthink going on here.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:48 | 1634104 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

It's called "math".  The numbers are bad, and getting worse by the day.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:02 | 1634192 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

One doesn't have to engage in groupthink to KNOW that when a Formula-One racing car is heading towards a wall that the driver is NOT gonna have a good day!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 10:40 | 1634368 marcusfenix
marcusfenix's picture

maybe not, but we are off to a good start...

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:51 | 1634125 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

Winner … Warren Buffet – loser … my Aunt Jane

Winner … Political elite – loser … marginalized/disenfranchised

Winner … banks – loser … the rule of law

Winner … Wall Street – loser … Main Street

Winner … speculators – loser … investors

Winner … spenders – loser … savers

Winner … bailed out – loser … American Tax payers

Winner … large corporations – loser … small business

Winner … executive corporate employees – loser … shareholders

Winner … criminals – loser … everybody else

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 09:58 | 1634170 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

i like you!

are you hot?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:43 | 1635791 NumNutt
NumNutt's picture

Like a 50 inch flat screen TV in a LA riot!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!