Market Surges As Petulant Fed Dissenter Promises ZIRP To Last Longer Than Mid-2013

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Tue, 11/15/2011 - 10:47 | 1879052 HelluvaEngineer
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Only problem is that perpetual ZIRP is already priced in...

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 10:55 | 1879091 SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

ZIRP to 2013 is priced in. ZIRP to 2113 is not.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:39 | 1879254 trav7777
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new credit/money is not being requested.  Therefore, they have to print the coupon.  Simple math

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 12:32 | 1879389 Max Fischer
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And why is new money not being requested?

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi 

 

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 12:39 | 1879406 walküre
walküre's picture

They will give us at least a "lost decade" to 2018 and 50+ years of mortgage amortization.

Wanna see their tools, baby?

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 13:14 | 1879519 malek
malek's picture

Only 50+ years?
And you forgot they will make mortgage debt non-dischargeable in bankruptcy.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:05 | 1879095 GeneMarchbanks
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Yeah, but every so often they want to refresh our memory. For example, "hey are you a saver?" Yes,sir "well, just want to remind you we are still right behind you plugging away at your sphincter"

And so it goes... totally necessary if we're going to break that DOW 15.000 mark.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:06 | 1879136 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Warned about this yesterday. Evans and CNBC: a lethal combo for bears.  Sorry, the guy is deluded, but, hey, we can rename the Santa rally, the Evans rally.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 10:49 | 1879059 A Man without Q...
A Man without Qualities's picture

no recovery as far as the eye can see = bullish...

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 10:55 | 1879093 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

Bullish for FAZ

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:13 | 1879156 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

Amen! FAZ it up!

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:15 | 1879163 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

I'm FAZ'd to the gills at the moment.  Just waiting for that 8% gap down morning.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 10:50 | 1879063 Cdad
Cdad's picture

...sending WTI into a bid lifting tizzy, further lowering quality of life in the US.  The criminal syndicate at its finest.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 10:53 | 1879076 GeneMarchbanks
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Do not panic. Another roughly $10 up and it'll collapse. Of course the new recession/depression will arrive...

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:13 | 1879155 whatsinaname
whatsinaname's picture

WTI yes but not gasoline - markets pretending that prices at pump will not follow crude oil path. How long will this charade last ?

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:38 | 1879249 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Answer:  impossible to answer.  WTI is so far out over its skis right now, that it is hard to imagine that it can drag gasoline up that hill.  Contango coming into WTI suggests that the WTI surge is simply a market mechanical response to spread compression in WTI/Brent trade.

Furthermore, WTI is currently a crutch for the S&P...with the syndicate trying to keep that bloated trade working.

Odds favor both oil and gasoline retreating, but in the two local gasoline markets I experience, pricing has been inverse, providing zero annecdotal evidence of anything.

Sell them both.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:07 | 1879066 wang (not verified)
wang's picture

Monti out?  stay tuned

 

BBG reports Primo ministro in waiting in unshced meeting with  presidente

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:10 | 1879144 A Man without Q...
A Man without Qualities's picture

Some reports simply suggest they have gone for lunch...

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:22 | 1879188 wang (not verified)
wang's picture

I know but everything is choreographed and this was not scheduled and one would think that Monti might be a bit busy hustling   potential supporters, whatever the markets would totally implode if he were to throw in the towel

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 10:55 | 1879067 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

FUCK THE FED AND FUCK THE DESERTER AND FUCK ZIRP!

 

There is NO WAY this shithouse ain't gonna fold and NO FED MANIPULATION shall prevent the GREAT PURGE. ZIRP for FOREVER won't do shit.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:12 | 1879149 Potemkin Villag...
Potemkin Village Idiot's picture

Why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel...

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:24 | 1879196 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Didn't I?

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 10:51 | 1879070 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Riots will be occurring long before 2013 at this rate.  If people are only complaining that they cannot get a job, wait til they cannot afford food and food stamp programs are reduced.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 10:57 | 1879099 LawsofPhysics
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Maybe, but based on my experience doing business in Russia in the 90's I would predict that there will be two economies (one state-run and one underground), paper will be abundant (we will all be billionaires) but supply chain disruptions, bribes, corruption, and black markets will be in abundance.  Whether or not you can "afford" food, water, and energy will be irrelevant, availability will be the issue.  TPTB have no problems with genocide, know your history and hedge accordingly.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:06 | 1879119 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

We have long had the bribes and corruption here in the US.  The only thing that seperates us from the post cold ward Russians is the the supply chain disruptions. 

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:19 | 1879180 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

No shit, my point was that the bribes will get worse and become very public, almost like a policy.  The supply chain issues will be what pushes average Americans over the edge.  You are dealing with several generations who have never really walked into a store and experience bare shelves.  One of my Russian friends once told me that the state officials in Russia told him that the reason store shelves in Russia were sometimes bare was because the Russian people were much "richer" than Americans and could afford to buy the products in stores.  The state official also told him that the reason American stores were always packed with product was because most Americans were too poor to afford to purchase any of the products.

I wonder if the same propaganda will be used on Americans in the future when their shelves are bare?

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:39 | 1879251 optimator
optimator's picture

In those days they'd also say Americans were starving.  One Russian who came over here said, "They were right, most Americans I talk to are starving -- dieting!"

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:41 | 1879260 Potemkin Villag...
Potemkin Village Idiot's picture

Re: Hadrian - Roman Emperor

I consider it good policy that the prince did not neglect the theatre or the circus and arena, as he well knew that there are two things which the Roman applaud especially—the distribution of grain, and games.

The neglect of the important thing [grains] causes great harm, of the frivolous thing [entertainment] greater hatred—the crowd hungering more for games than for bread, because by the gift to the people [congiarium] only those who are authorized to receive the grain will be gratified, while by the games the whole population is pacified.

—Fronto, Prim. Hist., p. 249, ed., Barthold Georg Niebuhr.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:44 | 1879266 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

It is also interesting to look at Kosovo in the late 90's.  They had a social reversal.  The country mice became the winners, the city mice became the losers.  In Russia, Ukraine, etc., people went to their "datchi" (homes in the villages), and vegetable gardens to survive.  These Slavics already understood what hardship means, though.  Here in America "hardship" will be a new concept, and will not be received well.   There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 13:23 | 1879542 hannah
hannah's picture

russian had a black market system for decades....we dont. when the corporations fold, that supply will disappear and there arent any other sources.....you cant compare the russian collapse to the american one coming. they collapsed 1 day after the revolution. we dont have public transportation, black market food systems. we dont 'own' our homes and neither does the gov....so we will eventually be kicked out etc etc etc.....the usa will be much worse off after the collapse.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:04 | 1879123 GeezerGeek
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I'd rather see voters reject big government entirely next November, assuming things don't blow up before then. But will they? Obambi will promise to take care of everyone and blame the problems on those Rascal Republicans. Boehner will cry and say it's not his fault. Pelosi and Reed will lie through their teeth, saying the Democrats need to control both houses of Congress.

I'd rather see everyone just sit on their hands - do a John Galt, in a manner of speaking. Let's all refuse to spend any money on non-essentials (screw the retailers) and instead donate to charities. Let's all take our money out of banks and keep it at home for a month. Let's stop flying around the country for a month and watch the TSA employees molest each other. Let's stop using credit cards for a month. What would TPTB do if We the People decided not to participate for a month?

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:07 | 1879138 pods
pods's picture

Check on all.  I actually told my boss the next time I am going to get on an airplane it will be in a pine box with a "Fed Ex" sticker on it.

pods

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:17 | 1879174 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Unfortunately the only way to reject big government entirely next November is to not vote.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:20 | 1879184 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

The only way to reject government is not to pay taxes.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 14:08 | 1879635 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

Unfortunately, they reject you back by having you ass raped in prison.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:51 | 1879291 stewie
stewie's picture

You could also do everything in your power to support Ron Paul.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 14:14 | 1879658 mendigo
mendigo's picture

that's loser talk son

My thinking is that I will vote in every election and I will never again vote for any democrat or republican (or republican wannabe's).

 

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 10:52 | 1879074 SteveNYC
SteveNYC's picture

Evans is a dangerous dude. Can't somebody in DC remove this guy from the Fed? Oh, that's right. The Fed does not answer to the people nor their representatives.

How did that happen again?

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 10:59 | 1879108 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Can't somebody in DC remove this guy from the Fed?

 

And why would the fine folks in DC want to do that?   His message is their wet dream!

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:06 | 1879135 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Is there a way to remove DC? As in "remove from the United States"? DC and it's debt can become a separate nation. We the People can finally regain our freedom.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:14 | 1879159 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Fed operatives are deeply embedded in the US Treasury. Like...this is news ??

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-15/fed-employees-serve-treasury-in-assignments-deepening-crisis-forged-ties.html

 

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 10:53 | 1879078 Astute Investor
Astute Investor's picture

Evans should stop fucking around and just say that he expects the policy rate to stay low ad infinitum.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 10:53 | 1879080 Roy T
Roy T's picture

 

Also, at about 9:35 Bob Pisani reported that some German on a German Economic Board said that the ECB should be the lender of last resort or something like that.

 

 

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 10:58 | 1879103 Taterboy
Taterboy's picture

Bob Pisani-Living proof that everyone is somehow employable.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:17 | 1879169 Potemkin Villag...
Potemkin Village Idiot's picture

Bob Piss-on-me...

"Year end bonuses are saved... The crowd (on the trading floor) goes wild!"

 

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:07 | 1879117 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

Yep, I think it was Pasani misinterpreting comments from one (out of ~10+) German adviser to Merkel – implying according to Pasani that ECB should be a lender of last resort.

Commodities spiked up parabolic on Pasani’s ECB printing money hope.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:12 | 1879148 Mactheknife
Mactheknife's picture

>the ECB, has just said it will not monetize.

But, but, but....surely they jest. Yeah, the're just messin with us.  NOT!

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 10:53 | 1879081 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

When did we move from an enviroment where the Fed had a mandate, which was 99% carried out by tinkering with interest rates to one where is became acceptable for them to tinker with every corner of the economy at will?

I understand what the Fed did in 2008 was perhaps necessary. But NOW, they should shut up and go back to being seen and not heard (and audited often).

How is that a Fed governor who has no idea about how capital markets work and no clue how broken the transmission mechanism is, has the power to move markets?

All of this Macro tinkering is very counterproductive to any recovery (i know very debatable on the recovery part).

When did Fed Governors get their Superman capes?

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 10:55 | 1879088 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

When did Fed Governors get their Superman capes?

Answer:

January 20, 2009.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:10 | 1879104 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

you assume the tinkering is done to help the 99%.  wrong.  it's done to sustain the 1%--To prop up the institutions, and structures that keep their power absolute over the 99.

 

That is why the market will never collapse, like it should.  Like Winston Smith, you cannot defeat Big Central Bank:=Wallstreet  And in the end you will hold 2+ 2 =5.  Or that is to say you will hold the simultaneous beliefs that we live in prosperous economic times, as everything around us degenerates.

 

In newspeak, totalatarianism is capitalism plus plus (+privatizing of profits, +socializing risk)

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