The Mediterranean Winter?

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Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:44 | 1833481 kato
kato's picture

Good point!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:55 | 1833551 idea_hamster
idea_hamster's picture

C'mon poppy, the rest of us can bend the will of our citizens, why can't you?

You misspelled "ignore."

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:01 | 1833580 Toolshed
Toolshed's picture

That is just waaay too funny! But sadly, waaay too true.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:17 | 1833607 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

There will be no public referendum vote in Greece on this issue.

To allow such a dog and pony show to occur in the 'cradle' of democracy would be considered an affront to the vested interests of the global banking community. Expect every (and I mean every) string to be pulled to stop this idea from happening.

Expect some Sudden Infant Death Syndrome on this issue.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:37 | 1833753 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

Actually, the people hate their politicians as much as they hate WS.  That's why you'll be seeing the swamp getting drained from both sides of the aisle for the next few elections.  Also, the difference between ths US and other societies is that we can work within our constitutional system and avoid the impulse to promote anarchy and chaos, which only devolves into dictatorial forms of government that will strip all liberties from our grip.  What we need(ed) was enough Americans to FINALLY wake up to the corrupted reality in front of us (and in DC)....and be willing to actively do something about it.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:46 | 1833482 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

The "our system" of democracy has morphed over time.

Lets take it back a notch.

Lets the banks default, let the sovereigns default, then lets begin to heal anew.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:03 | 1833595 john39
john39's picture

democracy just a show for the sheeple at this point.  you want real change, get ready to fight for it... neither political party will deliver it.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:32 | 1833734 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Once they get extreme, "democracy" and "capitalism" are incompatible.  We passed that point awhile back.

"Democracy" means permitting the people to decide how to structure society.  "Capitalism" means money is only spent/invested in search of return. 

If "the people" decide to ignore the profit bit and spend money on things that are not profitable, capitalism gets all gummed up and doesn't work smoothly.  If "the capitalists" decide only to spend/invest money in search of return, citizens revolt and civil society collapses.

Oh, well.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:26 | 1834075 chdwlch1
chdwlch1's picture

Agreed...the following metaphor seems poignant to me...

THE  EAGLE

And, no there is no wonder the bald eagle has such a significant symbolism to our country.  What hope! The eagle has the longest life-span among birds. It can live up to 70 years, but in order to reach this age, the eagle must make a hard decision.  In its’ 40’s, the eagle’s long and flexible talons lose their ability to grab the prey which serves as its’ food source. It’s long and sharp beak becomes bent.  Its’ old-aged and heavy wings, due to their thick feathers, become stuck to its’ chest and make it difficult to fly. At this point in its’ life, the eagle is left with only two options: die or go through the painful process of change which lasts 150 days.  The process requires that the eagle fly to a mountain top and sit on its’ nest where it then knocks its’ beak against a rock until it completely plucks it out. After plucking out its’ own beak, the eagle waits patiently for a new beak to replace the old.  It will use its’ new beak to pluck out its’ own talons. When its’ new talons grow back, the eagle starts plucking out its’ old-aged feathers. And after five months of healing and recovering, the eagle takes its’ famous flight of rebirth and lives for another 30 years!  Why is change needed?  Many times, in order to survive, we have to start the process of change. Sometimes it’s necessary to get rid of old memories, habits, institutions, and other past traditions.  Only when freed from past burdens can we take advantage of the present and build a better future. 

During a rainstorm, most birds head for shelter; the eagle is the only bird that, in order to avoid the storm, chooses to fly above the clouds...

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:45 | 1833485 Ancona
Ancona's picture

They don't want the people to decide because they will decide to stop getting ripped off by the fucking bankers and they know it.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:46 | 1833500 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

The people 'voted' on Bank of America by removing their money....that kind of 'democracy' they definitely do not like.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:48 | 1833512 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

And may it never return.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:47 | 1833502 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

Amen brother.

And that is why we pray each new politician will keep his promises, only to be sorely disappointed.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:29 | 1833722 knukles
knukles's picture

edit:

And that is why we pay each new politician to keep his private promises so we will not be disappointed.

Kelptocracy rule #1

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:46 | 1833492 FLUSA.com
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Club Dread

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:47 | 1833493 GeneMarchbanks
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'I just wonder if that  system is worth saving.'

No it isn't. The lifeblood is neither money nor credit, it's fraud.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:47 | 1833497 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Peace in the face of tyranny is cowardice.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:22 | 1833684 hyperbole2000
hyperbole2000's picture

One must follow "The Way" to achieve balance and harmony. When the government does not follow "The Way", one must resist the wrong way to achieve balance and harmony.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:49 | 1833519 unionbroker
unionbroker's picture

to bump up the market for half a day some people will sell their souls

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:49 | 1833520 maxw3st
maxw3st's picture

It would appear that Capi-Communism is working better than the Capi-Fascism we have in the US. Were I Greek I would have to be looking seriously at the above proposed solution. Can the Euro and deal with the Chinese directly. That way the Greek people could benefit from any forced asset sales rather than the ECB making those proceeds disappear into some shadowy hole.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:52 | 1833538 FLUSA.com
FLUSA.com's picture

very true.....

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:50 | 1833522 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

System will fail all by itself, give it enough time! In the mean time prepare! As to your short, leave it there for a few more days!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:51 | 1833530 Financial_Guard...
Financial_Guardian_Angel's picture

Can't let good ol'd G-Pap decide himself to pull the plug on society--he didn't ask permission. TPTB aren't ready...yet.

Wait for it...wait for it...it's coming

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armageddon

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:51 | 1833533 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

The people will quickly "decide" that the debt is a fraud, as it should be.  That would be bad for the banks.  Same old, same old.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:58 | 1833539 sitenine
sitenine's picture

It seems that more and more we are likely to "save" our system. I just wonder if that  system is worth saving.  In meantime I need to figure out what to do with my short since for better or worse I'm part of that system and not doing much to change it.

Let me see if I can help you through your quandary...

1) This system can not and should not be saved.

2) of course it is not worth saving.  Debt is a miserable proxy for real prosperity.

3) The only thing you can do to help change it is to abandon it.

Conclusion: sell your shorts before you defecate in them.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:58 | 1833545 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Tyler, you've been reading these comments long enough to know that the bark on the trees means nothing when a government swung axe can destroy the tree.

What you still haven't embraced yet is the axe can't be manufactured or shipped without oil.

Oil is the endpoint to all this, and everything else.  Greece burns 400,000 barrels/day and produces 0.  At Brent prices, that is 5 friggin percent of GDP drained out every year.

Take a moment and look into how NGLs have been lumped into crude barrel for barrel to conceal what is happening to "oil" production.  NGLs have about 55% of the energy content of crude.  They can't go to a refinery to make gasoline.

I'll leave the civilization destroying extrapolation to your own deductions once you see what is happening to the quantities coming out of the ground.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:53 | 1833546 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

GPap is just using advanced negotiating techniques. Democratic Jiu jitsu if you will.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:10 | 1833547 Mercury
Mercury's picture

But look how the market popped when the Greek referendum idea was scuttled.

Just think of the bitchin' rally we're gonna get when the Greek government declares martial law...

And if that "fixes" things -even just for a bit- there will be pressure and cheerleading to similarly thwart the pernicious effects of such "extreme circumstances" elsewhere in Europe.

Talk about a macro-catalyst for 2012! 

Get 'yer market on!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:54 | 1833548 Segestan
Segestan's picture

It seems the author just needs to understand ... the US is a Republic, Not a democracy. Representives are the foundation of freedom not mob rule led by anarchist/socialist/communist/labor unions... etc. Don't like it....Get honest representation, thats why you get a vote.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:14 | 1833636 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

You're an ass troll, and you do get my vote.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:16 | 1833649 Segestan
Segestan's picture

and you're a POS ... and you get my vote... Winner!!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:06 | 1833961 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

This is a lot like saying, "football isn't a game, it's a SPORT."

Brilliant. 

"Anarchist unions."

Moron.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:56 | 1833556 1835jackson
1835jackson's picture

And replace that system with what? It has always been mankinds desire to enslave one another. The current system is simply a reflection of this. I agree with the points made in the article above- the system is a sham, fraud...heck a joke at best.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:56 | 1833557 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

"I just wonder if that  system is worth saving.  In meantime I need to figure out what to do with my short since for better or worse I'm part of that system and not doing much to change it."

our system as inhabited by plutocratic totalitarian banksters is not worth saving....destroying the plutocratic elite will redeem the system....if you want to change the system, pay off every last dime of debt.

the system is one of debt slavery....every war, policy, government program, propaganda, AND CURRENCY, etc is designed to enslave governments and people to debt...the only beneficiaries of this system are banksters....

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:56 | 1833558 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

Who's going to buy the close today? We should have a strong overnight meltup.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:57 | 1833563 smlaz
smlaz's picture

Honest representation.  That's a lark...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:57 | 1833565 midgetrannyporn
midgetrannyporn's picture

"Our" system??

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:58 | 1833566 Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

G-vingt-et-un...isn't that a radio station in Belgium?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:58 | 1833572 Lux Fiat
Lux Fiat's picture

If this was OpEx week, I would think that this is one of the more effective hijinks that crop up occassionally. 

Don't know if the story about the possible scuttling of the Greek referendum is for real.  However, it strikesme that this could be the type of misinformation that can get thrown out there is someone wants a better selling pice.  G-Pap's demeanor doesn' seem to fit that of someone who was just kidding about the referendum, although he is seeking a political edge (what politician wouldn't?).

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 14:59 | 1833573 Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

Hubris bitchez!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:02 | 1833582 wang (not verified)
wang's picture

three or five days from now there'll be a report that ZH will either announce, break or piece togehter and many will say that was so obvious if only we saw that.

 

Gpap is slime so the question is unless he had a come to Jesus moment what was behind his sudden switch to populism

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:02 | 1833587 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

No successful revolution ever ended peacefully nor will this one. It all takes time but justice and vindication will come over those who sought to exercise control over the masses.  The masses will always be stronger, just need to get them off the sofa and into the streets. 

 

Representatives have failed us time and time again. There is no longer a reason to vote. Exit Bush-insert Obama, Exit Pelosi-insert Boehner and on and on. Two sides of the same coin. Voting does not work because both parties are corrupt at their core and neither will do anything about it. The only reason Eric Holder is still employed as AG is that Darrell Issa is just as dirty and they hold that over his head. This runs all thru government. Bankers steal because the government allows them to steal.  

System as it stands is not worth saving. Time to tear it down and start over again. 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:07 | 1833602 Village Smithy
Village Smithy's picture

I still hold out hope that the Greek people will have their referendum. At this point I think it is still very much in play.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:14 | 1833638 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

TPTB just have to cut oil to Greece if the Greeks revolt, problem solved.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:26 | 1833692 epwpixieq-1
epwpixieq-1's picture

I tend to agree with the statement about the democratic process, but have one fundamental disagreement. The question is that the people, who now are victimized, are the one who have lived lavishly for the last 20 - 30 years, due to their government getting more and more loans, and dispersing them as salaries. It seems that no one is asking the simple question "IS WHAT I AM GETTING AS COMPENSATION WORTH THE WORK THAT I DO?". And that is the biggest problem in the capitalist society that is supposed to be taken care by the market. And this tends to be truism but only if that market is FREE.

The Greeks on average have been compensated very well for not much useful work, or to put it in more generic way, for having very inefficient economy, it is the same situation as it is in the bank industry, huge amount of mismanagement. Hopefully no one will say that the Greeks are doing "The God's work" and they have right to be given that money.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:27 | 1833705 AvenoSativo
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For the record,

Globe and Mail reported (Nov. 01, 2011 9:48AM EDT):

"Bank of Canada Governor Mark Carney said the Greek government is right to seek broad democratic support on whether it should accept the financial-rescue plan on offer from its partners in the euro area, so he respects Prime Minister George Papandreou’s plan to hold a referendum."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/carney-says-gr...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:07 | 1833968 Village Smithy
Village Smithy's picture

It is no wonder that Mr. Carney gave up his mega-dollar salary at Goldman Sachs. He must have felt so out of place there. He has principles and an understanding of ethics and morals.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:29 | 1833708 JR
JR's picture

There’s one thing wrong with the term capi-communism: Communism is not capitalism. It is a cancerous, devastating philosophy that has never worked where it has been tried because it violates the characteristics of mankind’s desire to improve himself; to work for individual achievement for himself, his family and his country.

Communism provides the mechanism whereby the State absolutely destroys individual enterprise; it always has and it always will because individual enterprise isn’t allowed. There is no voting in China; the State makes every decision. 

The question that remains: Is China developing an economy which is based on individual free enterprise? It’s doubtful because every single authority of the State has been retained from the days of Mao’s Revolution. If they’ve given up anything I don’t know what it is.  China still has totalitarian control. Kissinger gave China, not capitalism, but a partnership in the financial tyranny that was happening in New York and London at the time.  China is no more capitalistic than Goldman Sachs and the rest of the TBTFs. It’s not capitalism!  Where is capitalism defined as the ownership of the means of production and the government?

It was a subversion act to allow China to join the World Trade Organization, resulting in a massive offshoring of America’s means of production. That act allowed China and participating international bankers and multinational corporations to engage in Lenin’s one step forward, two steps back concept - a concept that pretends we are going along with you, but when you aren’t looking we go back one step, and then another…

The United States has lost an average of 50,000 manufacturing jobs per month since China joined the World Trade Organization in 2001.

According to the U.S. Commerce Department, U.S. multinational corporations added 2.4 million new jobs overseas during the first decade of this century, at the same time cutting a total of 2.9 million jobs within the United States.

Ten years ago, the U.S. economy was three times as large as the Chinese economy.  At the turn of the century the United States accounted for well over 20 per cent of global GDP, China  significantly less than 10 per cent.  Since that time our share of global GDP has been steadily declining while China’s share  has been steadily rising…

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:12 | 1834313 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Where is capitalism defined as the ownership of the means of production and the government?

It's not an issue of definition.  No point in being hung up on word-games.  It's an issue of obvious and unavoidable outcome.

If you want "capitalism," you have to sacrifice a good bit of its competition--such as democracy. 

There's no way to keep the government out of the markets if you don't want the markets to completely swamp all the functions of government.

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