Meltdown - The Conclusion: "After The Fall"

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Sun, 10/02/2011 - 18:09 | 1731513 Captain Benny
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Al Jazeera rocks ("courtesy of...").  Can't wait for them to cover the American Fall like they covered Arab Spring.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 18:43 | 1731590 mtomato2
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Nobody who uses Maxine Waters to support their argument "Rocks."

Everything else in these documentaries may be true.  But the one-sided presentation from the beginning spoils the whole 'bunch apples.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 18:57 | 1731624 Captain Benny
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I said Al Jazeera.  I don't give a hoot about Maxine Waters or one or two journalists supporting their arguments with her.  The network itself provides a more accurate (yes, still biased!) view of whats going on than the major American media outlets.  RT and Al Jazeera are about as good as you can get without being on the scene.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 21:31 | 1731978 dlmaniac
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It's funny that Christine "monetary policy should remain highly accommodative" Lagarde is constantly portrayed as a positive source of judgement in the video. Was this series made by IMF? It definitely has a tone of more big government regulation throughout the video.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 23:26 | 1732191 baten
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Exactly! this whole bullshit series puts the blame on "capitalism" and sees as the solution "more state intervention".

Not worth your time. 

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 00:00 | 1732252 DaBernank
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Whenever idiot lefty statists say "capitalism" I inform them what they mean is "crony capitalism" which is what they will get more of with greater state intervention.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 05:55 | 1732449 Harlequin001
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The whole thing smacks of apologist bankers. The reason the system is failing is a matter of solvency, that's simple mathematics, pure and simple. You cannot borrow profits to add to your capital.

That's not what this video says. Personally I find it simple and propagandist. Do I really need point out that a simple gold standard would see a swift end to these huge pools of cash sloshing about from one asset class to another, would see an end to the bailouts and the behavior that caused this? We need none of this regulation or these 'more-than-my-jobs-worth's' that go with it.

I'm stunned that the makers of this film, who incidentally did a pretty good job of presenting a poor argument would show anything other than the simple cause and solution to these problems...

If I didn't know better I'd say this film was produced by bankers for bankers to lay blame nowhere and to appease public anger...

Waste of time, unfortunately...

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 22:42 | 1735686 Transformer
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I agree!!

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 00:43 | 1732291 tyler
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"Bullshit series that puts the blame on capitalism."  Your either a liar for acting like you watched the whole series, or a knuckle dragging neo-con who wouldn't know what real capitalism is if it bitched slapped you in the face.  

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 02:12 | 1732359 baten
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Me sir, I am very proud of my Austrian economics understanding of the things, and - as you pointed out - it is true that I have no ideea what "true capitalism" would look like, since it was never tried anywere in the world.

However, I am sure that failure of the fascistic/interventionism/collusionsim system that we experience today has nothing to do with "failure of capitalism".

Punishing banksters for wrecking the economy is OK - but it wont solve things, unless you address the state interventions that made it possible in the first place. The solution cannot be "more regulations - more intervention" just as the solution for "huge debt" cannot be "more debt".

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 01:00 | 1732315 Christophe2
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@dlmaniac: That wasn't all.  Did you notice how the movie lauded the BS answer given by a 'top economist' to the queen's question of "why did nobody notice it coming?".  Supposedly, it's because a system with 6 billion people is "too complex to understand".  Hello?  The financial destruction (like our wars) was all orchestrated and painstakingly implemented by the secret societies / satanists / banksters / politicians / etc. 

=> certainly, if you spend your life focused on figuring out how to take advantage of people (and propagate that over centuries), it's fairly easy to achieve what they have 'achieved'.

 

It was also telling how the movie didn't mention how Iceland basically refused to pay (most of) their BS debts to the bankster establishment and henceforth are the only country in Europe that is doing relatively well at the moment - a rather important detail, considering how Canada, like the rest of the world, is about to be cannibalized and wrecked to pay BS debts incurred by their own criminal banksters.

 

It's easy to make a seemingly 'hard hitting' series on a shocking topic like our global economic collapse.  However, the strength and value of it is easy to determine from the conclusions they reach: here we see conclusions and details that are totally safe for TPTB, ones that amazingly enough indicate that no one is to blame!

 

I've been happy to see decent coverage of Occupy Wall St on ZH recently, but highlighting this series is lame and a waste of time, IMO.  It is basically a mainstream (CBC) puff piece.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 02:51 | 1732381 centralbanknews
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I wonder if they all remember the 80's debt crisis - the third world debt crisis - I saw this documentary the other day, and it's like if you updated the fashion and changed some of the names it would be difficult to tell the difference!

http://www.financedocumentaries.com/2011/09/prisoners-of-debt-inside-global-banking.html

To the brink and back and beyond...

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 04:21 | 1732431 Ponzified Plebe
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I also thought that Lagarde's positive treatment was odd, however, Al Jazeera's treatment of the events leading to the ongoing economic collapse had more texture and truth to it than anything we ever see in the major US news outlets. I realize that there are many bullshit calls on this documentary because of their lionization of some of the highest rated personae non grata amongst ZHers but the reviews here have been reactionary and lacking the substance that this noob has so greatly benefitted from with respect to the ZH community. Allow a bit of contrary opinion here:

1) The fact of the matter is that libertarian ideals are largely unrepresented in today's liberal democracies and modern capitalist societies. However Al Jazeera has managed to communicate that the economic collapse of market economies are still only just moving past stage 1.

2) They managed to capture rather compellingly the plight of the common man across the globe in a way that few news org's have the sack to do.

3) The fact that they showed corporate hostage taking in a positive light (in pt. 3 as they examined issues arising in France and Canada) lends some legitimacy to the quality (not perfection) of the documentary series. Maybe we should start thinking about similar ideas with respect to consumers holding their bankers hostage until we can see the reinstatement of Glass-Stegal, and a return to a un-debauched currency.

With respect to Lagarde, I wonder, given the way she is so summarily put back into place whenever she steps outside the party lines of the global central banks, what her private opinions are on the current crises. Even if she holds contrary opinions privately, anyone who advances as far as she has cannot rock the boat, leading me to the conviction that even the most decent individuals that comprise TPTB could never, never upset the status quo. Hell, Strauss-Kahn is described as sympathetic to a degree, even on the record on a major global news outlet, to the masses defrauded by corporate largess. Makes me wonder who the fuck is behind them pulling the strings.

The positive analysis notwithstanding, this documentary series is fundamentally propping up false solutions to the problems they expose. State solutions are precisely what has  given rise the issues we find ourselves in today. I realize there is a lot of fear of truly free markets these days, however just because we haven't ever seen  libertarian socio-political norms doesn't mean they are any more dangerous than the quasi-free markets and liberal democracies we see today. This is the glaring weakness of this documentary series, Al J should have dealt more in the parlance of liberty and solutions that maximize freedom, or any other news org with the sack to report on these matters.

I could  give a flying fuck about the negative feedback I get here, but the fact is there are enough thoughtlessly negative reviews here to gag a maggot. I'll give all due respect to a hater who takes the time to formulate a defensible position than the mindless dismissals that can't separate the wheat from the chaff. There's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater here, and I'd frankly have a coronary if I saw a similar piece in the American media today.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 19:10 | 1731651 LetThemEatRand
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Not that I'm defending her, but perhaps your reflexive revulsion of Maxine Waters and all she represents should be re-examined in light of the fact that she is on the right side of this issue.  

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 19:42 | 1731730 r00t61
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What if she's on the right side for all the wrong reasons?  E.g., maybe she's only talking this way because she thinks it'll get her more votes or whatever.  As soon as it becomes convenient to start singing a different song, she'll sing it.  I mean, she's a career pol, having "served" - and I use that word loosely - since 1993.  The bank that her husband worked at got $12M in TARP money as a result of her interventions, which led to a House Ethics inquiry - though, it is ironic and amusing to think of Congresscritters "investigating" each other for corruption.  Her Opensecrets page shows that the majority of her campaign contributions over her career have come from real estate, unions, and lawyers.  I guess those bankers haven't felt any need to bribe her thus far.  If JPM gives her $1M next election cycle (it's got all this money to throw around, seeing how much money they just gave to the NYPD), who wants to take bets that she backtracks on her anti-banker stance?

 

 

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 20:06 | 1731790 LetThemEatRand
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All valid points.  Our system practically guarantees that all of our national representatives become crooks (most start out that way, but many evolve into it), which is why I almost never defend any of them even if I agree with what they have to say in some instance or other.    I guess the issue that motivated my comment goes more to the fact that Waters tends to evoke a special hatred among many, while many far less hated representatives are openly aligned with the NWO.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 21:16 | 1731945 Sabibaby
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These are good videos but 10 months old???? Really? Things are moving so much faster. I don't understand why it took me 10 months to find these videos. This way past current. The video has Straus Kahn pre NY rape!

 

To confusing Tyler, keep it current. I know it must be tough but this behind the times... Good info but still. Am I supposed to take these jokers seriously or not? or is that why you posted this?

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 01:03 | 1732178 Spirit Of Truth
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I applaud ZH for posting this documentary now.  I watched it from beginning to end and I think this is most timely.  The anti-bankster protests have finally kicked off in America (and I'm suspicious as to why now) just as what I believe could be "Black October" is beginning:

http://thespiritoftruth.blogspot.com/2011/10/meltdown.html

I personally think the benefits of "economic authoritarianism" are now too outweighed by the costs.  Therefore, great change is in store for the world economic system.  I don't know if you all have noticed, but dominant economic theories in modern times are about as misled and wrong as could be, and this is one of the primary reasons we are in the mess we are in.  Time for correction.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 23:38 | 1732208 rocker
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Think about this, the MSM has the sheeple harnessed to believe that all is well.

Yes, it is very well repeating until the correction is over.

And justice is satisfied against the crooks who profited from their frauds and lies to pension funds and society as a whole.

Nobody of value has gone to jail yet. How many from GS itself belong in Jail.

I can think of more than I can count on one hand.

And for current. Occupy Wall Street is a Current Event.  It is only beginning.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 05:24 | 1732444 Ay Caramba
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On the other hand, weren't the charges against Strauss-Kahn deemed as fabricated?  I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that he was taken down because the powers that be deemed him too dangerous.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 19:46 | 1731748 firerx
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Even Liars like "Mad Max" tell the truth sometimes. :P

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 20:10 | 1731810 gangland
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excerpting suskind's new book here http://falsepolitics.wordpress.com/ until i cant, watching this AJ series and reading suskind is interestingly divergent in POVs.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 21:03 | 1731915 BlackholeDivestment
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sKpzmojjfU Maxine Waters is a corrupt dipshit.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 00:04 | 1732255 iNull
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Maxine Waters, Maxine Waters...Wait a minute. It's all starting to come back to me now. Is this the same Maxine Waters who sat on the special House Subcommittee for Financial Services? Is this the Same Rep Waters who joined in with Barney Frank, castigating and eviscerating the head of the Congressional GAO for his investigation into malfeasance at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as far back as 2005? Is this the same Maxine Waters or have I got this brainless cunt mixed up with some other brainless cunt?

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 02:55 | 1732384 seek
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Exactly. I used to think that Al Jazeera was a great source of news independent of the MSM here in the US. Then two things came to light that make them very suspect: one, wikileaks revealed connections between the CIA and Al Jazeera Director General Wadah Khanfa that just lead to his resignation, and two, during the Libyan "uprising" not long ago, Al Jazeera was one of the ones caught sending out falsified news and faked video.

They're an asset, just not to the truth. These reports are advocating answers that aren't in our best interests. AJ has lost the trust they'd earned in the past, presumably because someone decided to cash in some of the credibility capital they'd built up in the past to manipulate public opinion now.

Once again, TPTB are getting desperate, because they're making mistakes and moving so far and so fast that fairly ordinary folks can spot the lies.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 20:47 | 1731888 GhostfaceCracka
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Al Jazeera? Russia Today is where it's at.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:27 | 1733001 StockInsanity
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After watching this series and the fourth video particularly...its no wonder that DSK potentially got framed and kicked out of his position at the IMF.....one way to stop him from talking credibly

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 18:05 | 1731518 Ahmeexnal
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So Canada belongs to Al Jazeera?

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 18:27 | 1731560 Rakshas
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Not yet,  The series first aired on CBC as part of the Doczone offerings but not many folks watch CBC so I reckon they sent it to AJ to get more views.....

Sucks that you have to go to AJ or RT to get more accurate propaganda on your own back yard..... does anyone need the first amendment anymore?? Its not like they're actually using it..... 'cept Youtube and John Stewart

 

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 18:44 | 1731592 mtomato2
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And Dude, let us not forget.  LET US NOT FORGET... The Onion.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 18:32 | 1731572 knukles
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One of my Way Too Far Right of Attilla the Hun is an Understatement Somewhat Misguided Golf Amigos said that if we don't stop 'em in Af-Pak, next thing we'll know is that they'll be running the US Health Care System.
So ah, by extension that's reasonable, I'd guess.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 20:53 | 1731898 john39
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we would be far better off that way than the vampires currently running our "health care" system...

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 18:09 | 1731524 equity_momo
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Bravo ZH for bringing this series to your readership.

The previous installments have challenged some personal long held beliefs . The last 3 years has been a constant questionning of those beliefs - like tectonic plates shifting i am a different and (hopefully)wiser person.

I shall now go and watch this last episode. Good evening.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 18:55 | 1731619 Ahmeexnal
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This series is propaganda.
Half truths, half lies.
So now the sheeple are to believe people like Lagarde, kings and queens of Europe, Sarkozy, and others are heroes fighting for the poor masses.
Lies I tell you.
They are just trying to fool you. After all, they want to keep their heads attached to their bodies.
But they will fail.
The hit mob squads will find them all.
And off their heads will fall.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 19:02 | 1731629 Captain Benny
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Agreed.  It did seem quite biased at making a few select people look good on camera.  Its not like any PR stunt will save the dicks and bitches of the western banking world.

Lagarde deserves the sames cruel justice as her international cohorts: death by hanging for crimes against humanity.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 19:36 | 1731697 Hugh_Jorgan
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I don't know about lies, but half-truths and omissions abound. The key is to learn what you can from the series but understand that this is incomplete and many more people share blame. This includes those Americans that have collectively sleep-walked through the past 100 years of our civic life. Those of us who prided themselves on their success in "working the system". Those who failed to teach our kids that self reliance and personal responsibility are vital pillars of our civil society. Those, like myself, who ignored the "no free lunch rule" as we slurped up cheap electronics made with slave labor, McMansions, 36mo BMW leases, and all the other meaningless crap that once passed for substance. This time our lesson will be especially hard-learned.

I won't espouse mob rule or street justice, though. This will only usher in Napoleon or Hitler. Unhinging civil society for cheap vengeance without a plan is literally collective suicide.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 19:51 | 1731760 Ag Star
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You don't know history do you? That is not how Hitler or Napoleon came to power.  Don't quit your day job--if you have one.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 23:23 | 1732186 TaxSlave
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And it looks like diversionary crap like this is intended to sweep us right back into another episode.

Redefine the terminology (like crapping all over capitalism, then 'rethinking capitalism'), then you can present people with a Sophie's choice, two untenable alternatives, and it doesn't matter which one they pick.  Either way, they're just screwed.

All the heat and noise is intended to draw attention away from the fact that there is a player in the game that can print money.  And that money buys power, and influences everything.

So go ahead and demonstrate on wall street, call for a French Revolution type bloodletting.  You'll just be trading a Hitler for a Stalin, or a McCain for an Obama.  Just remember, when the people behind the curtain are done with one useful idiot, they will gladly toss him off the balcony into the murderous crowd below while their henchmen lead the cheers and violence.  There are legions more willing to be the next 'leader'.  And it will be different next time, won't it?  Just like Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football.

If you don't cut off the free money, you're shooting at the wrong target.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 22:14 | 1732009 LetThemEatRand
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AhmeexnalI don't agree with everything you post, but I agree with everything you just said.  But having said that, propaganda that half educates is better than nothing.  This piece could help move people in the right direction.  Maybe you did, but I didn't figure this shit out all at once.  It took a long time for me to figure out that most of what I learned my whole life is a big fucking lie.    Baby steps, baby.  

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 18:13 | 1731532 DoChenRollingBearing
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I've been planning for the crisis since the 1980s.  Someday, maybe like a broken clock, I will be right.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 18:31 | 1731570 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

more right than you know, bro

+1

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 18:35 | 1731581 DoChenRollingBearing
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+ 1 back at ya.

Since the 1980s...  Does Jimmy Carter count?  LOL...

Really since the 1970s, but I did not have the means of buying gold until the 1980s.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 18:31 | 1731571 Campagnolo
Campagnolo's picture

why from 1980?, the 80's weren't this bad, even the 90's we were ok to fix things....to me the point of no return is after 9/11/2001

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 18:56 | 1731623 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Just lil ol paranoid me!  My mindset...

Your implied point that things are harder to resolve NOW vs. then, is spot-on, so have a green one me!

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 19:51 | 1731759 Chuck Walla
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No, it was the 90s when Bawney Fwank, Bill the boy president clinton and Dodd decided afawdable howsing meant banks being forced to make loans to people they knew could never pay it back. Then people like FNMA CEO Frank Raines and his side kick, another Clinton appointee, Jamie "the wall" Gorelic, got huge bonuses for bringing  in volume. Nobody cared about the credit quality.  Raines was later made to disgorge some of the fraudulently obtained bonus cash.  So the banks and Wall St. invented the CDO to make money on the crap that was the sub-prime loan scam.  Really?  Bank regulators had no problem with no document loans?  Or did someone order them to have no problem?

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 21:11 | 1731856 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"why from [the 1980's]?"

The 80's were the first obvious sign of "irrational exuberance" in the West and the first sign that the old manufacturing paradigm was transformng into purely service and consumer economies in the developed world.

By New Year 1990, it was obvious [to me] that a new paradigm was needed in the developed world to cater for decreased productive employment (which was shifting to the emerging manufacturing economies of South-East Asia and Central Asia) and increasingly purely service economies (where everybody was becoming a hairdresser, personal trainer, musician, or waiter/waitress).

The fundamental problem -- that has not been addressed at all since the 1980's -- is that a new means of creating wealth is needed in the West to pay for the goods imported from the developing manufacturing economies. It is an irreversible trend (first demonstrated by the transfer of manufacturing from old Europe to the New World in the 19th Century) that must be dealt with by some other means than simply burying one's head in the sand and hoping it will go away (ie. by running up increasingly unpayable debt).

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 20:56 | 1731902 john39
john39's picture

since the events of 911 were actually part of an elaborate ritual with symbolism drawn from pre-historical times, you can be sure that this goes back a lot further than 1980.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 02:24 | 1732365 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Deep Ritual Symbolism indeed. I think I found something interesting... the most popular Bush Photo on the day, just loaded...

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/10/01/potent-911-symbolism/

ORI

 

 

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 00:08 | 1732261 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

It was the 70s early 80s when the survivalists and Mad Max bunch first got going. It wouldn't surprise me if someone got into the whole survivalist thing back then.

The right wing paranoia faded quickly under Reagan. Then the left went apeshit.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 18:40 | 1731584 tim73
tim73's picture

So you got an underground bunker full of used tuna cans and stacks of Knight Rider on Beta cassettes? Hope you taped Baywatch too...David Hasselhoff is essential for surviving nuclear winter.

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