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Meltdown Part 2: "A Global Financial Tsunami"

Tyler Durden's picture


Two days ago we posted the first episode in the must watch four part "Meltdown" series from Al Jazeera looking at the key events that brought the world to the edge 3 years ago. With the final quarter of the year upon us, and with massive redemption requests hitting deeply underwater hedge funds, not to mention with a macro and micro economic global financial environment that is the worst it has been since the fall of 2008, we once again stand on the verge of yet another Great Financial Crisis. And although our politicians and leaders refuse to learn from the past, we are confident our readers are far more intelligent. Which is why here is the next part in the Meltdown Series: "A Great Financial Tsunami." Because while insanity may be doing the same thing over and over expeting a different result, sheer idiocy is constantly refusing to learn from the past, and expecting a present which "is different this time."

From Al Jazeera:

In the second episode of Meltdown, we look at how the financial tsunami swept the world. We hear about a renegade executive who nearly destroyed the global financial system and the US treasury secretary who bailed out his friends.


Henry 'Hank' Paulson, the former CEO of Goldman Sachs and later an economic advisor to the US government; refused to bail out global financial services firm - the Lehman Brothers. Paulson said it was not the role of government to save private businesses.


Lehman's failure had repercussions around the world. Millions of people lost their life savings. Pension plans were decimated.


Christine Lagarde, the French finance minister at the time and a close friend of Paulson's, publicly described Paulson's decision on Lehman "horrendous".


Markets from London and Paris to Shanghai fell. An epidemic of fear caused the world's major banks to stop lending, ending the year in protests and industrial action.


Click here to watch the first part of this series, The men who crashed the world.

Meltdown Part 2: A Global Financial Tsunami


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Sat, 10/01/2011 - 09:04 | 1728600 papaswamp
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Redemtions needed to be in yesterday yes? Wonder what the final tally is.


On a side note BoA still having issues with their on-line banking, though it is functioning better.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 09:40 | 1728660 russki standart
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Most of us would have been  better off if the bankster criminals were allowed to be financially destroyed, lehmanned into the garbage pit of history. The subsequent TARP and  bailouts have resulted in a sovereign debt crisis, whilst the original criminals made off with trillions.  Yes, initially it would have been a horror story, but what is coming now is far worse.  Get ready to be part of history as  the crashes of 2011 and 2012 will supercede the early 1930´s.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 09:55 | 1728692 IAmNotMark
IAmNotMark's picture

Oh man!  I didn't want to be part of history!  I've been enjoying my quite and peaceful life!

I do agree with you.  I think that any day now the morning headlines will be will much more severe.

Another part of history for 2011 is OccupyWallStreet.  The article in Wikipedia is worth reading. 

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:14 | 1728735 spiral_eyes
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More cognitive dissonance:

The Economist: "Be afraid (unless we print a hell of a lot more money, then everything will be alright)" 

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:22 | 1728756 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

Who reads that Liberaltarian rag anyway?

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:29 | 1728778 RSloane
RSloane's picture


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:45 | 1728813 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

They believe in the free markets...until Wall St needs a bailout and the wealthy need more money "to keep the economy going." I can't believe anyone would read that bullshit. I would add Neo-Cons to Liberals to the answer of who reads The Economist.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:50 | 1728825 Going Loco
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I used to read the Economist until I realised they are unerringly wrong on every conclusion they ever reach. At the time i stopped reading it I did not appreciate the value of a contrary indicator, and by the time i had gained such an appreciation the blogs had arrived and I stopped reading print altogether.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 11:05 | 1728854 Bobbyrib
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Their conclusions almost always lead to government intervention (at least the few articles I read). ZH easily replaces the Economist as having facts not everyone knows, while usually having a better opinion on it as well.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 12:11 | 1728996 Nobody special
Nobody special's picture

I would like to see a version of this that includes the unspoken $16T bailout.  This downplays the actions taken and it plays up the credibility of 'leaders.'  The collusion at the highest level isn't well detailed, but even without it the series is exceptional.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 17:16 | 1729543 AldousHuxley
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 "Fuck the Fed" protest in Boston Fed by OccupyBoston TODAY!


Never could have imagined, but it is happening.



Sat, 10/01/2011 - 12:33 | 1729024 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

I'm calling Bullshit on this movie and ZeroHedge for promoting it.  In my opinion it is a propaganda piece and I wouldn't be surprised if ZH is engaged in a paid promotion, cross promotion, or other type of scheme. Or maybe it was a couple of box seats for the World Series, who knows.

I'm not going to waste my time disecting the entire part 2. Just a few points.

First, (and it was so obvious), during the introduction of the movie we are told "Only now are the key players being held to account." Oh really? I missed the part about the indictments and the handcuffs.

I don't think the word Fraud was mentioned once in part two of this thing. We do get to see a clip of Congresswoman Marcy Kaptor telling foreclosure defendants to "resist the sheriff".  A few minutes later... cut to riots in Europe.

No mention of the infamous 3 page bank bailout proposal by Secretary Paulson, which contained this gem:

Sec. 8. Review.

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

The piece of garbage (my opinion) spends about 8 minutes trashing Iceland for not allowing the foreign Banks to perform another financial coup d'etat. No mention that Iceland's unemployment rate dropped from a high of 9.3% about two years ago to its current 6.7%. The thing ends with something about China's economy collapsing because they engage in "brutal capitalism" where factories are allowed to go bankrupt and close down. Of course the main theme being, we musn't ever let that happen to a big global bank.

As for the title, Meltdown... pffft. There was no meltdown, there was a robbery and a coup d'etat as Max Keiser described it a few years ago:

As for the title of part two, with its focus on some of the European sovereign debt, I would go with Full Tilt Poker European Style.


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:04 | 1729081 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

If you don't hack out the roots, the weed will come back.

Paper fiat money buys EVERYTHING.  When there's a player in the game who can print money, that player ends up with all the property.

As always, the destruction of peoples' lives is and will be blamed on the willing pigs who feed at the trough.  But after you butcher them, if the trough is still there, another swarm of them will compete to take their places.  The booboisie will revel in bloodlust as the current round of pigs are dismembered, while allowing their future to be owned by the same master.

Paper money steals the underlying value out of an entire economy, by destroying property rights in currency.  Beyond this, everything else is heat and noise.

Damned straight, it's propaganda.  A big Red Herring, smacked across the face.

End the Fed, restore constitutional money.  Or BE OWNED. Forever.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 16:03 | 1729402 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

@careless whisper, not able to devote full attention to piece, but it sure seems that way. Propaganda. Andrew Ross Sorkin is king of propoganda machine. Come on Al Jezeera, you can do better than this. We need movie from Matt Taiibi

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 19:11 | 1729800 Rakshas
Rakshas's picture

Actually AJ just rehashing CBC Doczone fluff; I wondered why so much Cdn content specially wtf finance minister Fuckerty would have to say that would be of much relevance to the rest of the world..... putz  

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 14:13 | 1729194 mendigo
mendigo's picture

Excellent points.
How ironic that al jazeera is supportive of the status quo.
The mistake was not the allowing Lehman to fail but the ensuing reversal which negate the potential positive affects of the former.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 15:33 | 1729309 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

EXACTLY! The problem with this piece it is tries to wrap up very long and complicated story all neat and tidy. They want to make the ignorant general public think that everything has been uncovered, and here are ALL of the players and ALL of the plays that made the "world crash possible This is an evil, insidious deception. They should have called this "The Scapegoats Part Duh".

Al Jezeera is still just running cover for the legions of other devils that are still yanking levers, filling their pockets, and passing it on to their elitist progeny while the rest of the World burns.

People like Christine Legarde of the French Finance ministry (now head of the of the IMF... hmm that's wierd), playing stupid about the surprise of shared risk in the global banking system? They are truying to condition us to believe that bailouts are the economic panacea. In reality is that it only delays the inevitable, because the bill just keeps growing. The abyss is still there and we are still edging closer to it. Now, thanks to these clowns the fall is going to be harder as well.

Al Jezeera is our new Global Propaganda Ministry, enjoy

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 16:05 | 1729406 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

In the second episode of Meltdown, we look at how the financial tsunami swept the world. We hear about a renegade executive who nearly destroyed the global financial system and the US treasury secretary who bailed out his friends.

Henry 'Hank' Paulson, the former CEO of Goldman Sachs and later an economic advisor to the US government; refused to bail out global financial services firm - the Lehman Brothers. Paulson said it was not the role of government to save private businesses.

In a world chock full of global financial terrorists I can think of no one more deserving of a PGM than this guy. 

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 16:29 | 1729447 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

@mendigo,  @ whstklwr,  @ Hugh_Jorgan

Some people believe that Al Jazeera is controlled and financed by the British government through MI6. I haven't done any research on the subject. I have no idea if that is true. More and more people seem to have a healthy skepticism of the news, movies, tv shows, etc. so that's bad news for the propagandists; and since the Rothchilds bought the Weather Chanel last year, well....

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 23:40 | 1730144 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

hand in glove with the military "owning the weather" and commercial "weather modification" nationwide, among other delightful toys they play with.

nothing's "real" - disney dystopia. . .

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 02:41 | 1730313 rocker
rocker's picture

Everyone Needs to Remimber as posted on ZH:  "The Collapse Is Coming...And Goldman Rules The World"

Reference past post:

We are all beholden to GS and Lord Blankfein really believes he is God. 

Doesn't anybody question why during the Greece protest they had Goldman Sachs on Banners directing much of their problems on GS.

Please: When the Fuck can we keep focused on who is doing what to who.

Surely, Lloyd Blankfein's 100 million dollar bonus was NOT earned after he was bailed out by Hank Paulson and Neel Kashkari, both prior GS employees.

Where is Neel Kashkari now.  Guess: The Bond King Pimco.  The circus continues.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 17:19 | 1729540 Element
Element's picture

I haven't viewed part 1, but got half way through Part 2 (and turned it off) and came to similar conclusions.

There are so many of these 'doco's', as a sort of financial fig-leaf for public theft on a mega-global scale and they all deliberately soft-soap and pander to what was really done by these unforgiveable schemeing master-bastards.

I don't like what I'm seeing Tyler, it's reinforcing the "we saved the world" bullshit themes of GS and Co (as in 'co'-dependents). All that is missing is Ben as TIME "Man of the Year", and a shitty worthless nobel peace prize.


And I just luvs how they use the muzik from the movie "Fog of War" to add to the pseudo-financial and pseudo-intellectual pseudo-concern for the rest of the world ... and the usual confusion themes (i.e. whocouldanode ... it all like  ... just happened dude ...).

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 20:37 | 1729892 Grimbert
Grimbert's picture

I subscribed for a while pre-internet until the following conversation:


Me: I just read (past tense) 'X' in the Economist. It was interesting.

Acquaintance: Hmm I used to be a student too...

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 12:17 | 1729006 RSloane
RSloane's picture

I would add neocons as well. Good point.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:08 | 1729089 cdskiller
cdskiller's picture

What planet do you live on, brother? You think liberals believe in bailouts and giving the wealthy more money? No politician who supported the bailouts is actually a liberal. They are corrupt corporatists, masquerading as liberals. Actual liberals have no representatives in Washington, outside of a few who are dismissed as radicals, and that has been the case for my entire life. Don't call Obama or Clinton liberals, please.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:17 | 1729104 akak
akak's picture

While you're at it, please don't call fascist, corporatist scumbags like Bush, Cheney, Romney or Perry "conservatives" either.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 14:01 | 1729171 Hacksaw
Hacksaw's picture


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 15:58 | 1729394 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Like conservatives didn't get them elected? Own your mistakes.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 18:53 | 1729767 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

It's a safe bet conservatives didn't elect the current Buttfuck-in-Chief. You and your compadres can own that, but we all get to own the clusterfuck.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 19:08 | 1729798 snowball777
snowball777's picture

But the people YOU elected CREATED the clusterfuck!


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 21:15 | 1729948 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

YOU have no idea if I voted or voted for. Irrespective of who wins elections, tacit acceptance by the public of decades of malfeasance on the part of their elected officials of any stripe in exchange for a whiff of the public trough is the clusterfuck, not the irrelevant divisive mirage of differing political philosophies.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 21:42 | 1729980 saiybat
saiybat's picture

It doesn't matter who you elect or don't elect. Politicians don't give a fuck about you. So keep voting for whoever makes you feel the best because you are giving your consent to get fucked. Politicians are parasites and career politicians are the lowliest scum ever shat out of a womb. Career politicians aren't competent enough to get a real job so they make their job fucking everybody or at the least inconveniencing people. They're all a joke on their little reality show. They need to be laughed at so they'll go away, not worshipped or hated depending on which way the wind blows.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 22:22 | 1730039 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

I can trace this CF all the way back to 1913. Do you really want to play a 100 year old blame game or can we just agree that all Americans are being screwed by everybody at the top?

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 23:45 | 1730150 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I'll agree if you also acknowledge that amrkns are screwing everyone else, globally.

it's a top down thing, and amrka is NOT even near the bottom of the screw pile.


Sun, 10/02/2011 - 10:01 | 1730627 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

But the people YOU elected CREATED the clusterfuck!

Once again the Berkeley jester shows its ignorance. If you can't see the Democrats in your own district filling their pockets, you need to get your head out more.

It's obvious why Wall St money flew to the Obama campaign (I wouldn't be surprised if TARP money didn't end up getting rerouted to the greatest campaign warchest in history - so large it was "inauditable"). When you look at the unrest, only Obama could stem the tide of public agitation. It was a brilliant plan - for about three years. Occupy Wall Street shows that the power of cash is experiencing a shortened half-life.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 16:57 | 1729499 saiybat
saiybat's picture

There's only one Party. Democrats and Republicans are both progressive fascists with different rhetoric. They disagree on shit that doesn't matter.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 17:15 | 1729539 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

They disagree ONLY on shit that doesn't matter.  Fixed it.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 18:02 | 1729647 saiybat
saiybat's picture

They disagree only on shit that makes the most farcical spectacle for the circus.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 15:57 | 1729392 snowball777
snowball777's picture

In October of 2008, the Senate passed the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act, which created the TARP program. The legislation passed 74-25. Barbara Boxer voted in favor of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act.

(she did vote against Gramm-Leach-Bliley though, to her credit)

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 20:46 | 1729903 Grimbert
Grimbert's picture

A word only means what you want it to. In the 80s in the UK the Conservatives were liberal, and the Labour party was conservative. 

Since Labour came to power in 97 they and the Conservative / Liberal coalition since 2010 have been fascist. Or at least corporatist. 



Sat, 10/01/2011 - 18:03 | 1729650 SheHunter
SheHunter's picture

wake up.  the you versus me labels of democrat/republican; conservative/liberal; gay/straight; left-wing/right-wing; etc, etc ad infinitum are used for one purpose and one purpose only: to assure division between the peoples because there is strength in unity and in numbers.  Regardless of labels you and I have much more IN common than NOT in common.  I believe we agree we are being gutted by big brother government and industry.



Sun, 10/02/2011 - 00:51 | 1730228 FlyPaper
FlyPaper's picture

Not so sure about the "industry" part because it lumps everyone together; and not all industry acts in a manner repulsive to the majority of Americans...  Other than that?   Bingo.  

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 11:37 | 1728855 centerline
centerline's picture

Just a suggestion... don't read anything written by a witchdoctor (I mean economist... same thing). If you don't think this is correct, start looking into how we teach, train and utilize most modern economists. It is not a science. It is closer to a religion... a system of beliefs justified and reinforced by bad statistics.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 11:53 | 1728959 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

From wiki:

"The following day the group Anonymous released a video in which they threatened the New York Police Department with the an ultimatum: We, as it is our duty to uphold the freedoms of the people will constitute a declaration of war against the NYPD if the brutality does not stop.

If we hear of brutality in the next 36 hours then we will take you down from the internet as you have taken the protesters voices from the airwaves. The 36 hours passed without incident."

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 20:51 | 1729911 Grimbert
Grimbert's picture

link or it never happened.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 13:48 | 1730962 In Fed We Trust
In Fed We Trust's picture

I here by annouce that Tyler Durden is NO MOoRE.

He has been kid napped and is being held captive Asssannge.

His voice replaced with ........?

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:08 | 1728720 Shocker
Shocker's picture

The ones that created will find a solution then blame the little guy.

Kinda like the mortgages, Blame the guy that was taking out a mortgage 3 times bigger than he can afford. But the banks, oh they had no clue.



Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:21 | 1728755 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

huge .

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 11:15 | 1728880 CapitalistRock
CapitalistRock's picture

If you took out a mortgage that is 3 times bigger than you can afford, then you are to be blamed. No more explanation required.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 11:19 | 1728891 Shocker
Shocker's picture

You are correct, but then don't cry ( the banks ) When they dont get paid. Thats the point. They gave crazy loans, knowing they will never be repaid.

Pretty simple, the Bank didn't have to give loans, they knew never were going to get repaid. They did because there was a bigger game plan in place. If you can't see that, well i'm sorry

And you just confirmed my point. Don't take the blame, blame the little guy


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:03 | 1729079 RSloane
RSloane's picture

There's enough blame apportionment to go around. Its never as clear as one side or the other.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 14:36 | 1729232 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

sometimes I wake up in a cold sweat, dreaming that the world is being engulfed in a huge tsunami of blame.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 15:39 | 1729360 RSloane
RSloane's picture

Dream no more. This is election season. Just be sure to avoid getting poked in the eye with all the finger pointing and knuckle jabbing.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 16:25 | 1729439 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

I guess a tsunami of closed gas stations would be worse.

I live in So Cal. Will you tell me who to vote for, as I have no intention of listening to radio or television until it's over.

2012 >sigh< I wouldn't mind a military junta.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 16:25 | 1729440 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@RSloane, you are completely correct.  LOTS of blame to go around.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:08 | 1729088 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

But. At the end of the game, the bank ends up with the property.

Having done nothing to earn it except to create the currency to buy it with.

And if the bank is lucky, it gets bailed out, besides everything else.  If not, it still ...

ends up with the property.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 16:39 | 1729460 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

Cheap Loans after 9/11 were actually US Government Policy,

blaming the Banks alone for all the mess is just plain ignorant of the facts.

after the dotcom bust and 9/11 Greenspan put interest Rates to Zero and Freddy Mac and Fanny May were created by the US Government and the FED with a Home for every American promise in Mind and for a few years it actually worked and no-one complained during the Goldilock Years. Along came Bush and started 2 wars, each costing trillions and that was the start of the end for the US of A. The crime is that now, you have Zero Interest Rate Policy (ZIRP) yet again, forecast by the FED to last many years ....

Americans thought they were save with low Rates forever, and believed that every American would have a home...

after all, this was America, the land of the free

where every American could Dream, every American would own a home, with 2 cars and 2.5 Kids

until George Bush, Dick Cheney and the Neo-cons came along and killed the American Dream,

and then sold it for a 15 trillion Dollar Nightmare...


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 17:23 | 1729556 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

The issue seems more like a disconnect of responsibility all around, both little guys and the banks.  With hungry Sachsians breathing down their necks to securitize and sell off loans, the banks had zero reason to care if the loans would ever be paid - they only owned them for a few seconds at a time.  What's funny is that they then bought some back as CDOs - like the left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing.  They knew they were selling crap into the market - no reason to care.  Did they think that then buying the same sort of crap back from the same market would be OK?  Ohhh, but it was rated AAA!  Total circle jerk.

And since this all began in the US, I'd suppose that to quell some of the blowback the fed jumped in when TSHTF and helped some of the overseas suckers that bought in too.

Else our purported allies would have raised much more hue and cry, even though by then, they were doing the same stuff, following our lead.

Pretty sordid all around.  About the only blameless are people who weren't on either side of any of those trades -- already paid off their homes, no debt, or renting.  And not chasing "safe yeild" in their retirement fund with "Set and Forget" (Tm) idiotic "investing" in those flawed instruments, because hey, they were "safe".

As if, you could make money without risk.  If it's too good to be true, well, it is.  The more and better traders out there, the more the risk/reward ratio is a constant.  Does no one get that?


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 18:42 | 1729739 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I once knew a guy who was near the forefront of making AAA rated stuff from junk bonds.  Last I heard, they are still looking for him...  He sold the stuff to Europe...

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 01:30 | 1730251 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Very good.

Now toss in some sub rosa machinations of the Hubbert claque in the military. A couple of wars with oil rich countries in the Middle East. A couple of threats to other oil rich nations. And the fact that 2005 was the peak year for oil production (Winston Smith is probably massaging that number as we speak).

Yep, a toasty toddy to sit around the Holiday fire and yammer about in a couple of months. :o)

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 12:26 | 1729017 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

were you aware of the fact that a lot of people were "targeted" to take out mortgages ?    unscrupulous mortgages brokers actually went into predominantly black churches & lured unsuspecting & naive people into getting houses, a dream for most to own a nice new home.    yes, dear CAPITALISTROCK, many were the targets of the mortgage business; just as many young people were targets of the student loan industry.    

All i know is that when i was a young person in the late 1960's NO BANK IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD HAVE LOAND ME UNLIMITED CREDIT FOR ANYTHING !      i'm calling it like it is, risky lending policies, the banks get what they deserve.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:02 | 1729077 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Both borrower and lender are equally at fault

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:16 | 1729101 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Both borrower and lender are equally at fault

Widen your focus a little bit.  The bank holds title to the property in exchange for a few hours work (to make sure the borrower is 'worthy', ha!) and when the borrower defaults, the bank keeps the property, and the borrowers are still on the hook for the entire amount of the debt, except with the government as debt collection agency this time (untold trillions of 'public debt').

Very few of us saw the bubblescam and refrained from buying into the housing market.  And we were universally treated with contempt in the media and culture for calling it out for what it was.  Most people were like fish in an aquarium -- you want to buy a place to live, this is what you do, everyone else is doing it.  Some of us ate hamburger while our neighbors ate steak.  Try explaining that to someone who has no concept of what money is.  All you get for your effort is derision.  There  is no satisfaction in seeing them fail.  Paper money destroys lives.  My only hope is that this time people will wake up to that underlying truth and reject it forever.  I know, it's a forlorn hope.


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 16:11 | 1729420 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

When we bought house in 2005 lender told us to borrow more money becuase house worth more money in 2006. Then she told us we can use money for what we want, use for remodel, or buy new car. Really? we said, how do you know house worth more in 2006?

Because house value don't ever go down, she said.

We had to fight with lender abut it. She put in paper work, and we make her take it out.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 20:03 | 1729865 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Insider Tip: people with criminal records can't even work at McDonald's but they sure can sell real estate.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 04:49 | 1730399 L_Estasi_dell_Oro
L_Estasi_dell_Oro's picture

In a certain way she might have been right.


The value of the house might not really change. The PRICE however is a different story..



Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:46 | 1729149 Archduke
Archduke's picture

no. yes,  the borrower was guilty of uninformed hope and opportunistic greed, but he did not have a legal obligation to be financially responsible.

bankers, realtors, financial advisors, mortgage specialists on the other hand did have a legal responsibility with respect to the law, due dilligence,

federal lending standards and proctection against fraud.  as "professionals" the legal onus was on them to protect the buyer despite his optimisim.


these are not equal faults.  the hopelessly optimisric consumer's liability ends at him losing his house.  that's it.


the "professional"'s failure is liable for disbarment, delicensing, delisting, indictment, fines, lawsuits, reparation, and prison.


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 14:06 | 1729182 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

no. yes, the borrower was guilty of uninformed hope and opportunistic greed, but he did not have a legal obligation to be financially responsible.

bankers, realtors, financial advisors, mortgage specialists on the other hand did have a legal responsibility with respect to the law, due dilligence,


Legality is only one facet of that issue.

Structurally, the borrower has no incidence in the doing.

That is division of labour. Bankers, realtors, financial advisors, mortgage specialists are paid what they are paid because they know better than the non specialized personal.

It is how division of labour works. After pushing for division of labour, demanding non specialists to perform better than specialists is insane as the aim of labour division is that specialized populations perform better than non specialized populations.

Unsurprisingly, in this US driven world, US citizens through capitalism have brought in consequences they do not want to put up with.

Borrowers (save in extreme cases) have no responsibility in what happened as a result of specialization due to division of labour.

I dont expect this to stay there. In this US world order, more and more, specialists are going to shift the burden of their mistakes on the non specialists. I expect cases like a physician mistaking a tumour for a fat cyst to lay the blame on the patient, encouraged by the crowd of common US citizens who will tell that is all the fault of the patient who should have known better.

It is much more than an episodic crisis. Actually, we are through a period of time where US citizenism is exposed for meaning what it means: that is nothing.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 17:28 | 1729561 Element
Element's picture

Oh fucking wake up ... you've heard of shadow banks and derivatives right? ... so trying to put the mere borrower in the same class as the these ubiquitous lender ponzi-crooks is about as fucked-up a set of values as one can get.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 17:36 | 1729586 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

I don't see it that way at all.

Bankers, by extending credit to people who should never have been offered loans in the first place, simply drove prices higher on housing. They willingly violated their own rules and guidelines for lending, and then went crying to the government to bail them out when the magnitude of their fraud caught up with them.

Easy money is the carrot of instant gratification that bankers dangle in front us. If people had to actually save to buy a house, housing prices would be a whole lot lower. Now, the problems are compounded because the government took that private debt onto their books, magnifying the effects of all that easy money and saddling the country with an even larger debt burden since all of this "easy money" was borrowed with interest.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 14:47 | 1729250 tumblemore
tumblemore's picture

Wall Street and their rentboy politicians defines fraud as capitalism...

but it ain't neccessarily so.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 16:05 | 1729408 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Sad but true

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 15:08 | 1729279 Kayman
Kayman's picture




"then you are to be blamed"  Not so...

The blame falls entirely on Greenspan and the Fed.  Irrational Exuberance was Rational Exuberance. 

A Fed that destoyed the purchasing power of the dollar, while inflatiing fixed assets can hardly call the victims of its scheme "irrational".

Seems you can't see the forest for the trees.


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 16:00 | 1729400 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Don't be harsh on CapRoc
It's the way of the world
"My candle burns at both ends;
It will not last the night;
But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends—
It gives a lovely light!"

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 18:40 | 1729734 FEARTHESHARK

What fucking horseshit.  How comfortable it must feel to just lay 100% of the blame at the feet of the little guy while completely absolving an entire industry (or even economy) whose sole purpose was to manufacture garbage loans and pawn them off on the gullible.  But hey, that's capitalism, right, and it "rocks" doesn't it?

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 19:21 | 1729818 Axenolith
Axenolith's picture

Most people COULD afford them as they were sold, and bought the line of fantasy that rising realestate prices would enable them to refi at a later date with a load of equity.  Expecting every working stiff to understand the nuances of financial bubbles, especially with todays education system set up to keep them woefully ignorant of the workings of same, is unrealistic.

Joe Schmuck has to have a place to live, near a decent job.  All the houses in the area are 20X an annual salary due to a flood of easy cheap credit pyramiding the realestate prices up.  WTH do you expect him to do?  The logical end result would be, the banks get slaughtered in the popping of the bubble, and Joe, and everyone elses "credit rating" gets crushed, but it doesn't matter because the houses drop back to 2-5X annual salary range and Joe can save for that, and rent is cheap in the meantime.

The new banks that arise would, for a time, be awefull damn careful of who they lend to.  But NOooooo, we have to buy the bullshit line that the original banks were TBTF, and now the realestate is essentially "locked up" because no one will release it at realistic market prices, not to mention the titles are all screwed 9 ways to sunday from the goofy MBS packaging standards... 

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 11:44 | 1728944 MarketWatchTerrorist
MarketWatchTerrorist's picture

Peasants are never "part of" history, but rather, victims of it.  The elites make decisions that move the world.  Your power and wealth are irrelevant compared to them.  Fiat money is the tangible incarnation of power, the ability to make ones will reality, and you have near zero of it so far as they are concerned.  The reason they can print infinite amounts of fiat currency is because their power is infinite.


Do not be so grandiose in your thinking.  We are like algae floating on the ocean, and the elite are Poseidon.  We go where they wish us to go.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 12:23 | 1729015 akak
akak's picture

So just give up and die already, asswipe.

The rest of us will continue to fight against the evil to which you are so cowardly and spinelessly resigned.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:16 | 1729100 Hapte
Hapte's picture

As things start heating up, all the blowhards and cowards really start coming out of the woodwork. Fuck them, cowards are hypocrites are pigs are the state are the banks are the enemy. Don't lose heart fight fans.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 20:16 | 1729880 Incubus
Incubus's picture

You call this heating up?




Oh man, you probably get all excited watching shit like golf, too.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 07:02 | 1730466 MarketWatchTerrorist
MarketWatchTerrorist's picture

I'm just bringing some people back to reality.  The reality that peaceful civil disobedience will not win this fight.


Wake me up when the shooting starts.  Until then it's just a bunch of spoiled upper middle class hipsters trying to relive the 60's with the addition of Guy Faux masks.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 14:51 | 1729257 tumblemore
tumblemore's picture

the important thing is to fuck them up in any way you can. for pride if for no other reason.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 20:40 | 1729895 Incubus
Incubus's picture

Who is "them?"


Do they have marks on "them?"


Do they wear suits?  Are they a certain color?  Do they driver a certain type of vehicle?  Do they live in a certain area?  Are they all complicit in criminal behavior--such as profiting on the misery of entire social classes?


Be careful of who you decide to lump in with "them";  I can assure you when you start down that path, there are going to be innocent people that will suffer.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 15:21 | 1729306 Kayman
Kayman's picture


their power is infinite."

Not so.  The Federal Reserve is a construction dependent on the Economy of the USA.  Move the Fed to an island in the Pacific and see what power of printing they would have.  Without the implicit backing of the U.S. economy the Fed would be dead.

As the U.S. economy continues slipping into the abyss, the Fed is loading up on Kryptonite.

You are watching the Last Hurrah of the Fed.  They can print like crazy, to try to fill the insolvency hole in the criminal banking and derivative cesspool, or they can attempt an orderly liquidation of the dead carcasses.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 16:09 | 1729416 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

implicit backing of the U.S. economy

explicit backing of the government gun through legal tender laws


Fixed it forya.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 07:06 | 1730467 MarketWatchTerrorist
MarketWatchTerrorist's picture

The economy runs on oil. The U.S. controls the oil trade via its awesome military power.


I would argue that the Federal Reserve and its fiat dollars are not backed by anything other than the strength of the United States military, which is actually a not insignificant thing to be backed by.


The power I speak of is not dollars.  You misunderstand me.  The fiat dollar is a tangible incarnation of power.  All power stems from the ability to inflict violence.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 12:21 | 1728971 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

If you want to learn about the revolution that started in Germany in the 60's with Protests against the Vietnam war and the Munich Opympics 1972 conflict and the struggle that continues world-wide against the new face of fascism: American imperialism supported by the western establishments, many of whom have a Nazi past, then see this film made by the Producer and scriptwriter Bernd Eichinger (PERFUME - STORY OF A MURDERER, DOWNFALL):

The Baader Meinhof Complex

Germany in the 1970s: Murderous bomb attacks, the threat of terrorism and the fear of the enemy inside are rocking the very foundations of the still fragile German democracy. The radicalized children of the Nazi generation led by Andreas Baader (Moritz Bleibtreu), Ulrike Meinhof (Martina Gedeck) and Gudrun Ensslin (Johanna Wokalek) are fighting a violent war against what they perceive as the new face of fascism: American imperialism supported by the German establishment, many of whom have a Nazi past. Their aim is to create a more human society but by employing inhuman means they not only spread terror and bloodshed, they also lose their own humanity. The man who understands them is also their hunter: the head of the German police force Horst Herold (Bruno Ganz). And while he succeeds in his relentless pursuit of the young terrorists, he knows hes only dealing with the tip of the iceberg.

Producer and scriptwriter Bernd Eichinger (PERFUME - STORY OF A MURDERER, DOWNFALL) brings Stefan Austs standard work on RAF terrorism, THE BAADER MEINHOF COMPLEX to the big screen for Constantin Film. Director Uli Edel (LAST EXIT TO BROOKLYN, ZOO) presents the dramatic events that shook the democratic foundations of the Federal Republic of Germany from 1967 to the German Autumn of 1977.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 12:14 | 1729001 AbelCatalyst
AbelCatalyst's picture

Well said Russki! +1

If we allowed the market to work as it should we would have been climbing out of the pit now rather than digging deeper. In the end, the pain will be worse... The Baby Boomers have never made the hard choice, the right choice, and now we are going to have to pick up the pieces and rebuild... Sad...

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 12:45 | 1729027 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

you blame the Baby Boomers ?

let me are probably 24-34, still living at home of the hard choices your Mom and Dad made

by having to support their useless son or daughter who expected a free ride ?

I guess you could always start playing college football or get some other fool to support and pay for you ?

wake up to the real world - don't blame others for your own crap !

get off your ass and stop complaining and blaming your Mom or Dad ...

fucking dickhead !

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:27 | 1729117 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

die off you fucking old dinosaur hippies

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 14:28 | 1729212 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Love and Peace

"And we will all go together when we go,
What a comforting fact that is to know.
Universal bereavement,
An inspiring achievement,
Yes, we all will go together when we go."

Tom Lehrer

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 15:29 | 1729339 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Ahhh.... get them fighting amongst themselves.  Madison Avenue, meet Wall Street.

sun tzu   if you can't find respect, you will learn respect, even if you never voice it.  Your masters are not the previous generation.... they are hiding in front of you.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 15:33 | 1729348 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

sun tzu, why don't you start a Riot somewhere,

get yourself some Armani t-shirts or some Nike gear from a burning shop before it's too late.

how else willl you maintain that ever illusive lifestyle you have never been accustomed to ?

don't even bother with a Retirement fund...

you won't need one.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 17:33 | 1729582 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Die off we will -- each of us adding maybe 1/4 to 1/2 million to the health care tab for a couple weeks or months more miserable life, as it's practically illegal to have the plug pulled - especially since one is adjudicated "not qualified to make critical decisions" with all the tubing up every orifice.  I'm on the tail end of that one myself, being at the young end of that curve and having hated the generational wealth transfer the entire time, and having to put up with there always being someone a little older and therefore wrongly assumed more qualified in every job I ever wanted.  That is, till I grew a pair and started my own business, largely escaping the hamster wheel you're too afraid to abandon yourself.

Instead of showing a pic of someone else's, why not grow your own, faggot?

My very-boomer parents made living wills, and had the plug pulled when it was time.  For that alone (and a ton of other reasons) I rate them heroes.  I bet you snivel till the end, and demand care you'll never pay for, yourself.

Obviously, you don't get the first karmic law -- what goes around comes around.  Enjoy your fate! (it's what you make)

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 07:14 | 1730473 MarketWatchTerrorist
MarketWatchTerrorist's picture

Die faster.  Young people need jobs, and you refuse to retire.  Look at Hillary Clinton, all of 70 years old, and still trying to rule the world.  She should have been retired 10 years ago.  Such is the trend with all of the Boomer Parasites - infinite vanity.  They refuse to pass the torch to the younger generations.  Of course, most of them can't retire even if they want to due to a life time of living beyond their means and expecting the government to take care of their problems for them.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 14:12 | 1731034 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Sure, Hilary is a disgusting bought-and-paid for Dinosaur.

So, let's get someone from your generation on the ticket.  You know, someone with a little depth, someone whose entire being isn't texting on an iPad ?

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 02:21 | 1731547 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

The greatest of all the myths that man has egotistically created about himself is the one that he actually cares about anyone or anything but himself.

Man will vote for tyrants to protect his home and hearth who then send his sons off to the killing fields of every continent to mow down every human unfortunate enough to fall in the cross hairs.

Now the worm is turning and the unslaughtered sons and daughters have come back home and can't abide watching the previous generations turn their country into a bigger shit hole than it already is.


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 15:54 | 1729387 AbelCatalyst
AbelCatalyst's picture

Not my crap - I'm fine and don't have issues... Your description was not even close... You must be a Boomer - did that hit a little too close to home? Your generation made an absolute mess out of just about everything and it is my generation that will have to pick up after you hippies, who have sacrificed so little, and lived off the success of the Greatest Generation. Interesting the comment about living off my parents when that is exactly what the Boomers did... Excellent! Nice work!!

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 16:08 | 1729414 Kayman
Kayman's picture


Incredulous- all this Madison Avenue/ Hollywood bullshit that you so happily regurgitate.

My parents, the "Greatest Generation" got to collect Social Security nearly entirely unfunded by them. And now, of course, the Boomers are now going to have to do without pensions, since the Lazy Generation of iPhones and iPads havn't got CLUE ONE what earning a living is all about.

The chasm between "iWant' and iNeed" will be interesting to see, as basics like food, clothing and shelter were never learned by the Boomers progeny.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 17:35 | 1729584 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

ah, AbelCatalyst why dont you go and invade Guantanamo Bay...

there must be some small poverty-striken country somewhere that is in need of an US invasion and just begging for untold collateral damage and civilian casualties, under the guise of liberation.

After all, big Brother is fighting in Iraq and big Sis in Afghanistan and most of the rest of America's XYZ are fighting some War by Terror-Drone via remote control high on crack.

No Questions asked - welcome to the Wikileak Dreams

of the X-Y-Zzzzzz Generation...

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 18:12 | 1729671 Element
Element's picture

Die Weiße Rose

I remember very clearly that it was YOU who repeatedly made a case for Europe to invade Libya ... only about 6 months ago ... and don't deny it you f-ing hypocrite ... as I can pull up the exact posts where you did it  ... if you want.

Do you think people don't notice shit like that?

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 05:21 | 1730405 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

Element, you are talking shit !

Lybia asked for free air-space, not to get invaded.

and yes, I made the case that Europe shoulfd do more to help the Lybian People free themselves from that madmen Gadaffi. They never asked to be invaded, as the US and UK did ilegally in Iraq and Afghanistan. There are no Jobs in the US so being a " career-soldier " and following rules blindly like Guantanamo Bay or the human rights violations of rendering and abductions and concentration-camp ,like prisons like Abu Ghraib is totally different to what is happening in Lybia, and if you can't see that, you are just fucked and beyond help.

so stop telling fucking lies...I made a case for Europe to do more to help the freedom movement in Lybia, because the People there openly asked for it while being shot down by Gaddaffi, and the US was doing nothing, because of Israel. The same happens in Bahrain where People ask for help.yet the US is doing nothing,not even to mention Palestine.

Fact is,the USA will invade a country if it is profitable for them and Israel, but they won't do shit if some People really need their help! The US soldiers are mostly there because this is the only safe Jobs they can get,to feed their Families, and Element, you fucking know it! If Dick Cheyney  saiz, light them up, or torture them ,you as a US soldier will light them up, and torture them, no Question asked and that makes you no better than a mercenary killer, or a terrorist.

ah yes Element, and if wikileaks or Bradley Manning exposes the US Military War-Crimes against Civilians being killed like dogs in the street via remote controll from helicopters, Reuters Reporters, Women ,Children :

The USA responds by shooting the messengers:

in this case Wikileaks and Bradley Manning who got Jail for exposing a US War-Crime !

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 09:28 | 1730549 Element
Element's picture

Firstly, hypocrite, it's not Lybia - it is Libya.

You're clearly quite the regional expert, eh?

As for, "Lybia asked for free air-space, not to get invaded." It is you who are talking complete shit. Libya never asked for "free airspace" at any point.

The people who initially asked for a no-fly-zone were mostly (and firstly) westerners, namely Kevin Rudd then some Brits, and the Frog President, and then the rest chimed in.  And eventually a rebelious fraction of Libyans saw the wisdom of it, after starting a stupid war that they could not win, to avoid their own justifiable bombardment, so demanded the UN and US/NATO impose a no-fly zone to save their undeserving arses.

Those who asked for it were a small minority of hard-core dissenters, from the Libyan population, who were determined to avoid any sort of peaceful compromise, to avoid a destructive and deadly civil war. These people were a very small fraction of the total Lybian population. They were hardly representative of the national will, nor a majority.

Those are the arseholes who militated for war - as a first resort, rather than as a last resort.

The killing, torture, destruction and reprisals are not over, and will not be for a long time, and the Gaddaffi clan Govt had the natural HUMAN RIGHT (read the UN HR Declaration, 1948 fool) to defend themselves against armed domestic of foreign aggression ... and they still have that Human Right to defend the state and people of Libya against aggressors. So enough of your "defending human rights" clown-talk.

I reiterate; you're a boring hypocrite and a confused war-mongering arsehole, who does a great impression of being dumb-as-dogshit.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 10:29 | 1732970 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

Element you have obviously lost the plot

Gaddaffi is a killer who should have been euthanized years ago

why should people put up with shit like that ?

defending murderers like that just shows how fucked up you are

so fuck off you dumb-ass clown :p

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 04:21 | 1740390 Element
Element's picture

"...defending murderers like that..."


You want to point out where I did that, eh?

May be tricky, as I didn't do anything like that, in any way.

i.e. when unable to win with reason and fact, just talk total horseshit and make shit up.

That seems to be your modus-operandi, you vacuous tool ... oh, ... and utter hypocrite.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 21:19 | 1729951 Incubus
Incubus's picture

I am unapologetic when it comes to ageism and faggotry.  Old people and faggots are the scourge of humanity.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 22:56 | 1730081 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

... said the guy who thinks he'll never grow old.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 04:22 | 1730361 Incubus
Incubus's picture

You think I'm going to willingly grow old and become a burden on other people?  I'll off myself before I die as some invalid on a gurney somewhere.


There's no pride in gettin' old, and I'm a prideful person.  I don't think I need to live to even mid-ages, either.  Persisting "life" is too much.  Decades of drudgery? Of "being"? Too much for me.

Even now, the days are too long. This getting old in conjunction with the banality of social construct:  lives of pretend-meaning.  There's a certain artificiality to all of it.  Feels like you're suffocating for decades and decades and whatever you could've been is being slowly choked out of you--and all that's really there is a skin bag that holds muscle and bone and veins in a neat package.  It all becomes a habitual reaction--nothing done willfully.  And there's nothing really behind the eyes...just a corpse that falls apart too slowly. Just cells that won't stop their functioning to release you from all of this.  Just an incessant wearing away of what used to be a soul, that's dragged along, minute by minute; day by day.


I've been dead for a long time, I think.   

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 05:36 | 1730425 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

Incubus sounds like you are exhausted

you should be happy to be alive so get your act together.

get out there and enjoy Life !


Sun, 10/02/2011 - 11:20 | 1730746 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Sounds to me like you've lost all hope for your soul or spirit or whatever you want to call that part of us that cannot be explained by chemistry or biology or physics. Self-awareness can be a bitch if you don't have enough life experience to give it some perspective. There is a lot of life to be lived before you become a sack of bones, if you have the desire to keep growing. I don't care to live long enough to be a burden on anyone, but I hope to enjoy life before I reach that point.

I believe that we have collectively entered a period of declining social mood, where optimism is dying and pessimism is on rise. It will be difficult, but I'll try to do the best I can on an individual level to rise above the fray on an emotional level. I think the world is losing hope, collectively, and as we lose hope, fear gains a foothold. Interesting times, indeed.

I don't have the answers, but the will to live was planted in our DNA, so might as well try to make the best of it and take some joy wherever you can find it. It starts by getting out of your own head.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 14:18 | 1731053 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Growing old is natural, growing up is an option.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:57 | 1729160 boom goes the d...
boom goes the dynamite's picture

yeah sure, baby boomers all think and act in harmony.  what kind of fucking idiot holds an entire generation accountable for anything? oh wait, a fucking idiot does that, nevermind.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:12 | 1729096 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture



What?  TARP and the bailouts led to a sovereign debt crisis?  WTF?  That's just factually incorrect.  And the world would NOT be better off if the entire financial system was allowed to implode in 2008/09.  Only in your libertarian ideological dream world....

As I write this, you've got 25 green arrows and no red ones, which clearly demonstrates the extreme level of groupthink and idiocy around here.  Such a shame....


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:33 | 1729110 akak
akak's picture

If you are so unhappy and uncomfortable here, TexasGunslinger, oops, I mean RedneckRepugnicant, oops, I mean WilliamtheBastard, oops, I mean LongJuanSilver, oops, I mean ..........., then I am sure that HuffingtonPost would be glad to have you back. 

(Well, I am in fact not sure they would be glad to have you back, but at least the square peg would be back in its square hole.  And say what one will about them, but at least the former trolls such as Mathman and JohnnyBravo had the final decency to exit this forum once fully discredited, instead of merely changing their handles and coming back again and again, like herpes, just as irritating as ever.)

And just for the record, you disingenuous piece of shit, the world WOULD be vastly better off (for everyone except the parastical bankster elite) if the financial collapse HAD been allowed to proceed, as market forces and reality demanded, back in 2008 --- as kicking the can down the road is NEVER a solution to ANYTHING.

You say "potAYto, and I say "potAHto".
You say "world financial system", and I say "centralized wealth confiscation racket and unsustainable, collapsing Ponzi scheme".

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 15:45 | 1729367 Kayman
Kayman's picture



You say "world financial system", and I say "centralized wealth confiscation racket and unsustainable, collapsing Ponzi scheme".

Thank you. And another troll bites the dust.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 16:34 | 1729454 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

akak and Kayman, taking out the trash.  Well done, green.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 21:24 | 1729956 Incubus
Incubus's picture

why hate on the trash? 

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:30 | 1729123 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Nice yellow-smiley Hiltler avatar.

The rest of whatever it is you write never gets read by me, so I can't comment.

But nice Hitler presence.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 18:48 | 1729757 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

How does this comment get 3 reds?  WTF?  GREEN from me!

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 14:59 | 1729268 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Agreed, but J6P was told that we needed to bailout the billionaires in order for them to "save" their peanut-sized 401k.  And then the masses re-elected nearly every traitor in Congress that voted for the theft.  And we still have the mainstrem press-titutes applauding it.  That marked the time this country became beyond hope. It is irreparably damaged.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 20:54 | 1729914 richard in norway
richard in norway's picture

i dont think i have ever seen anyone get 68 green arrows, there should be an award

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:01 | 1728707 FederalReserveB...
FederalReserveBankofTerror's picture

Increasing prices worked for Netflix! It should work for BofA as well!

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 16:36 | 1729458 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Thank FrankenDodd for that re the debit cards.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 17:42 | 1729599 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

And they speak of losing money because instead of 44c per transaction they're only getting half of that, and they consider themselves entitled to that 44c for clearing a transaction that costs perhaps .004c to do, with no human intervention at all required to do the vast majority of them, just a few microseconds and a few bits of storage in a machine someplace.  On your money, they are keeping and using while paying you no interest.  Talk about an entitlement mentality.

They're not losing money, they're just not able to steal as much as before.  Think we should send them some cheese to go with that whine?

Meanwhile, people who deal cash, like myself, pay for this through increased prices at every retailer, because these pricks are allowed to make contracts with retailers that insist the retailer not give me that 44 cents off, since I'm not invoking their services.  Talk about an insidious way to force people into their greedy system who try very hard not to take part in it.  In any reasonable interpretation of the law, that'd be abuse of monopoly and a few other things.

The ultimate entitlement mentality.  They don't lose money on this at even the lower rates, they simply don't rake in as much undeservedly.  But it does once again prove that the always attractive idea of "tax those other guys" never works.  It's always passed through to "us" one way or another.

So, sure, take away those tax breaks to the oil companies, boom, up goes the price of gasoline in the most regressive tax increase possible on the poor people for whom that's a big part of the cost of living, sure -- and the sheep will buy it because they don't understand how things work.  That's not the working point of attack, you guys.


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 18:40 | 1729735 smiler03
smiler03's picture

As a Brit I'm uninformed but fascinated by the US bank customer being ripped off by charges. Every bank in the UK offers free banking as far as I know, so long as it remains in credit. It seems to me then that there's a very effective cartel at work in US banking charges. Am I right? Just curious.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 00:12 | 1730184 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

it's been years since I banked in britain, but I remember the banks trying to institute a charge if you wanted to talk to an actual teller - hoping to keep most outside at the ATMs I guess - sounds like that little scam bit the dust, nice!

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 00:32 | 1730209 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

With all respect, DCFusor, just being the devils ambulance chaser for a moment, please list some solvent corporations that charge 4 mill (0.004) per unit or transaction where the public is involved..

If the government told the banks how much to charge the merchant and the banks didn't like it and didn't provide the service, where the fuck would the economy be? And banks have to eat it for fraud, some cards reimburse for theft.

I could get behind you on price controls. But I don't break plate glass windows. :o)

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:17 | 1728741 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"On a side note BoA still having issues with their on-line banking, though it is functioning better."

The on-line banking functions have never been unavailable.  This is routine maintenance, just like ZH.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:08 | 1729076 clymer
clymer's picture

not for nothing, but you could have included in your moniker a claim to repair something that at least contains a motor. This is the web after all, so the chances of you embellishing your field of expertise are better than average. My guess, based on the depth of your posts, is that you might have trouble repairing such implements as a garden rake, or walking stick.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 14:11 | 1729191 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Still, don't you hate it when the Dow is off over 600 points and you can't see your money because of maintenance?

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:22 | 1728757 chubbar
chubbar's picture

I thought this was a good interview with David Stockman by Chris Martenson. Perhaps some of you folks will like it as well.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 09:08 | 1728602 Earl of Chiswick
Earl of Chiswick's picture

Rogoff calls for $4T EFSF (from BBC earlier today)

audio 25 minutes (if you had any doubts that we are done, you won't after listening to this)


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 09:29 | 1728641 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Earl of Chiswick... I believe that Germany will bail on the Euro IF they believe that the Euro is doomed. Merkle is a former E German official, speaks Russian fluently, and has conducted a series of quiet meeting with Medvedev and Putin over the last few years. Almost no info from these talks has been released.

Germany has the manufacturing engineering expertise and skilled labor force, Russia has no end of commodities.

Anyone not familiar with Sir John Halford Mackinder should famalirize themselves with his work on 'The Heartland Theory'. Wiki it... 

Here is an interesting read on the subject but it does not include Russia...

"Germany Will Leave The Euro"

"The Eurozone crisis will end up with Germany quitting the common currency says economic commentator Philippa Malmgren of Principalis."

"A former economic advisor to George W. Bush during his presidential campaign, Malmgren recognises a German exit would be a radical move and would mean a sudden rise in its export prices. But she believes Germany’s industries are in a strong enough position to deal with high prices in the near future.

Leaving a currency union has happened many times before, she added, pointing to a report published by the Monetary Authority of Singapore in 2007 which analysed countries’ departures from monetary unions.

The report entitled 'Checking out: Exits from Currency Unions' analysed close to 70 distinct countries that left a currency union. It found that leavers tend to be larger, richer and more democratic and also tend to have higher inflation."

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:21 | 1728753 Earl of Chiswick
Earl of Chiswick's picture

her bio is interesting Physics PhD, fluent in Russian, lifelong political activism etc. 

I think in the final analysis emotion will give way to whatever is perceived to be the lesser of two evils as in whatever will be better for German business, which could mean a smaller EZ but not leaving it. What we are witnessing is economic warfare and to the winner the spoils go; read fiscal union dominated by Germany.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 11:47 | 1728950 MarketWatchTerrorist
MarketWatchTerrorist's picture

What does Israel think of Germany's bid for indpendence from their New World Order?  Do not be confused, Germany will only do what Israel tells them to do.  And the New World Order is Israel's brain child.  Ergo, Germany will never leave the NWO, even to its own decimation.


Germany has already learned, twice, what the penalty for defying the Jews is.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 15:56 | 1729389 Kayman
Kayman's picture


"Germany has already learned, twice, what the penalty for defying the Jews is."

Your superficial understanding of History overlooks the simple fact that had Hitler's megalomania not got the better of him, by starting a 2 front war by invading Russia, there likely would not have been any European Jews left.  Very clever, those Jews, whispering in Adolf's ear !

And German Jews fought alongside Herr Hitler in the trenches of WWI.

Go Jew-bait somewhere else.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 17:21 | 1729552 redcorona
redcorona's picture

Don't know if you have seen this but Jews have been plotting the genocides of non-Jews for awhile now.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 07:26 | 1730475 MarketWatchTerrorist
MarketWatchTerrorist's picture

Russia's forces were forward deployed in preparation for an assault on Germany.  That is why their losses were so heavy when Germany attacked - they were not deployed defensively, but offensively.


Germany's first lesson was in their crushing defeat in WW2 and their tens of millions of dead.  Their second lesson was in their permanent indebtedness to Israel, which continues to this day.  The German people have been so thoroughly broken via social engineering that they are mere puppets.  All of their posturing is laughable.  Germany has not been a sovereign nation since the end of WW2.  The U.S. and Israel make ALL of the important decisions with regards to Germany.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 14:49 | 1731125 Kayman
Kayman's picture

"Russia's forces were forward deployed in preparation for an assault on Germany.  That is why their losses were so heavy when Germany attacked - they were not deployed defensively, but offensively."

What fucking revisionist History are you reading ?  Stalin murdered most of the officer class in the 1930's.  He hid under his bed, drunk, for weeks on end, until he finally came to the realization that his brother in blood, Adolf, was in the Ukraine. He refused to believe Churchill or his own spies about Hitlers intentions. (Stalin)"evaluated the motives of others by the standards of (his) own paranoid criminality"-Montefiore.

Superior Nazi arms and deployment won the day, in the beginning.

 But  American planes (shuttled through Western Canada, Alaska, then Siberia) and trucks (by ship, then through Iran) combined with British convoy supplies, Russian tanks, planes, and rockets and never-ending Russian blood, defeated your pal the Nazi slug.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 12:06 | 1728988 GregGH
GregGH's picture

Thanks Earl for posting this

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:39 | 1729136 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

That Ken Rogoff sure has the reputation. Even the BBC interviewer referred to him as an "eminent" or" renowned economist". I keep thinking I should be impressed by him, kind of like the way I am impressed when I see extremely well-coiffed people driving Mercedes C-class convertibles.


...well he's just basically a self-promoting garden-variety Keynesian. Don't expect any profundity in this interview, just warm, over-milked Keynesian mash potatoes. Erstwhile impression confirmed.  I guess he knows a lot of people, so when you are in that position, you generally are not judged by what you actually have to say.

A waste of time, unless you are a sociologist interested in the Harvard mindset.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:40 | 1729137 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 15:19 | 1729308 tumblemore
tumblemore's picture

Interesting that it's gone up from 2 trillion to 4 trillion. Maybe a sign of increased panic.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 17:33 | 1729574 beatus12
beatus12's picture

utter rubbish, nothing is DONE, the global economy can

absorb even an overwhelming 6T of adjustments, albeit it

will be nasty, toughen up kiddo



Sat, 10/01/2011 - 09:06 | 1728603 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Nuts. But even these most insight-filled documantaries fail to point tot he man behind the curtain. Go to the root of the matter. If you keep slapping the sock-puppets....silly eh?

Well made and bold and all that....I've seen better stuff on youtube.

Strike at the root, name the real names, who will show up soon enough in this tsunami of "disclosure". In fact, my tin-foil antennae are tingling at all these skeletons tumbling, tumbling outta closets...


Tipping Points

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 09:16 | 1728622 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

I've seen better stuff on youtube.

C'mon dude - no spoilers!  Some of us aren't able to watch 42 minute videos in the span of 5 minutes.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 09:22 | 1728630 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Try this:

Ring of Power

All four hours of it. Then, perhaps, all shall be clear and no spoilers remain? 


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:07 | 1728718 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

It took about 15 minutes of watching it to get this nugget: "Half the world believes that 9/11 was a conspiracy carried out by Islamic Muslim extremists with financing from Muslim charities.  The other half believes it was a conspiracy carried out by Jewish Zionists with financing from Jewish charities."

Ori I didn't get to take the Pepsi Challenge on this one but am curious if some members of "the world" don't want to be put into one of these two buckets.

Here's to hoping you, me and Ben Netanyahu sit down one day over some bacon double cheeseburgers and share a few laughs.  Your crazy shit is enjoyable - keep it up, bro :-)

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 13:05 | 1729084 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Indeed VicVin.....lions (us) with sheep eh??? ;-)


Sat, 10/01/2011 - 10:13 | 1728725 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture




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