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MF Global Client Theft Estimate Doubled To $1.5 Billion?

Tyler Durden's picture


Even as we hear rumblings that the MF fire is spreading, and the associated auditor of the now infamous former Primary Dealer is about to get in serious hot water, the bankrupt company itself continues to dig itself an ever deeper grave. Because according to a just filed motion by the MF Global liquidating trustee, it seems that the gross criminal activity by the company may have been orders of magnitude bigger than anyone has expected. To wit: "As a result of the apparent segregation violations and the suspension of clearing privileges, more than 150,000 customer accounts essentially were frozen on October 31, 2011, of which more than 50,000 accounts were regulated commodities customer accounts. The CME estimates that MFGI’s current segregated funds requirement is approximately $5.45 billion. Moreover, the total amount of MFGI customer segregated funds on deposit at the CME is approximately $2.5 billion, and the clearing-level segregated collateral is approximately $1.5 billion or approximately 60 percent of the MFGI customer segregated funds on deposit at the CME." Doing some quick inverse addition and we get a (w)hole of $5.45 less $2.5 less $1.5 or $1.45 billion. In other words, the theft by MF Global was not stealing hunderds of millions form its customers: it has stolen a whopping $1.5 billion! For those confused, this is not a rogue loss of $1.5 billion, something which was enough to send UBS' Kweku to prison. This is outright theft resulting from illegally commingled accounts. Our only question is will $1.5 billion in theft be enough for the first real perp walk of an Obama-friendly Wall Street executive?

And here is Reuters with a revised lowball. Remember this number was supposed to be zero earlier today. 

MF Global had a $633 million
shortfall in its customer segregated funds as of Nov. 1, according to an
estimate the CME Group provided to the U.S. futures regulator.


That amounted to an 11.6 percent deficiency.


In the letter dated Nov. 2, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission
said the CME has identified futures commission merchants (FCMs) willing
to accept transfer of MF Global customer segregated account positions of
retail and institutional customers.


The futures regulator also
said that CME anticipates that MF Global customer segregated account
positions will be transferred to two or more of five identified clearing


MF Global, which filed for bankruptcy protection on
Monday, is the biggest U.S. casualty of Europe's debt crisis, and the
seventh-largest bankruptcy by assets in U.S. history.

When all is said and done, the shortfall will be well over a billion.

h/t Doug


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Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:14 | 1838412 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Michael Clayton is in Corzine's kitchen as we read this.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:16 | 1838420 gangland
gangland's picture


more like barry's shug knight...aka..otherwise known as joe yamookaah biden

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:20 | 1838445 Western
Western's picture

This whole situation makes me sick to my stomach, and I'm sure as fuck glad I'm not a current/former/ever MF customer. Just trying to empathize with the victims.


I often fantasize about shooting people like John Corzine in the head. I've never killed anybody, but I probably wouldn't be haunted if I just up and did him in right this minute.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:23 | 1838459 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

Corzine would have made a great treasury secretary

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:43 | 1838563 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Corzine needs to go to prison and be someone's azz slave just because he is Corzine. I hate the guy. Typical sanctimonious rich democrat.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:50 | 1838738 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Biggest POS on planet Earth.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:59 | 1838862 ZeroHour
ZeroHour's picture

I don't know DoChen, the earth is pretty big and he's competing with quite a few POS's from Washington, NY, etc.

A top ten list can't be created because you can't squeeze several hundred in there.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 18:21 | 1838933 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Aw, common, everything's fine.  What's $1.5 billion between friends?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 18:35 | 1838973 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture

1.5 billion public lashing  for the the theft .. would be a nice start

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 18:37 | 1838977 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

Only rogue traders get the perp walk.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 18:51 | 1839041 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Plus USGov will cover this. I mean USTaxpayers will cover this. Man....Bamie's got your back Dudes. Don't sweat it.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 18:58 | 1839064 Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

Troll, flawlessly logical and beautiful in its simplicity: Just because he is Corzine.

Two thumbs up. Way up.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:29 | 1839337 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

You're right - he's almost as bad as the typical sanctimonious rich republican. 

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 13:41 | 1842339 inca
inca's picture
Jim Stone visits Occupy LA

Since I was displaced by the recent disaster, and live in Southern California, Occupy Los Angeles ended up being an obvious destination.
I went to Occupy LA with an agenda of uncovering infiltrators into the movement who seek to undermine it, and get the real word out - it is a foregone conclusion that the mainstream media would lie about everything.

I had enormous success with both things,

To start;

The "official" representation for Occupy Los Angeles may have been usurped and appears to be intentionally not getting the word out about what the movement actually stands for. I was invited to join the media team but refused after seeing the media tent, which despite having several Macintosh computers and at least 10 windows based laptops as well as innumerable cameras and a full time broadband connection, had failed to output ANY video in three weeks (as of Oct 24) other than a three minute clip from a flip camcorder. This was discussed during a media meeting which I attended on October 24.

Many media outlets have stated Occupy Los Angeles has no direction. But after being on site for four days, I can clearly state that there is a strong direction and strong demands are being made, demands which get usurped by the powers that be who are on scene and claim to be part of the movement. One pass through that camp will reveal a powerful resolve and message; a message which has been stifled, and I have proof of that here in photos. The demands are:

1. An end to the banker bailouts and an end to centralized PRIVATE banking (Federal Reserve). This is very closely followed by an end to all forms of corporate welfare and "buying" of electoral candidates by corporations.

2. An end to insider trading and favored status being given to investment firms like Goldman Sachs.

3. Media accountability - the movement is well aware of the fact that it is a few families of a particular (small) religious group that owns the media, which during elections especially, and at all other times publishes only information which serves a handful of "elite". They want candidates to represent themselves without the boost provided by media bias, from a fixed money pool drawn from public funds.

4. From this, they hope to accomplish their fourth objective - an honest government that does not go around killing innocent people in foreign nations every time the will of the "elite" banking cabal is not served to it's extreme desire while robbing the people of their taxes and future to fund elite cronies in their financial scams. They do not want world government, this movement clearly sees the value in maintaining national soverignty. They want the old America back.

5. They want an end to the police state, over excessive law enforcement, government snooping in the electronic arena, de-criminalization of victimless activities, such as adding onto a home without a permit, running a generator without a permit, growing food without a permit, as well as the legalization of hemp. They would like to see the end of America's absolutely monstrous prison system which is mostly full of people who never actually did anything other than violate a law or ordinance which bans an activity that never involved anyone other than the individual performing the action. They believe prison should be for theives, rapists and murderers, and that it is impossible to deserve arrest for inaction, or action which involved no one else.

6. They want accountability for ALL corporations producing genetically modified foods, and focus especially on Monsanto. They want labeling of genetically modified foods to be MANDATORY, and an end to genetic modification altogether

There are also many affinity groups, such as animal rights, gay rights, women's rights, openly communist or socialist groups and trade unions, who have little to no representation (single tents) placed in prominent locations, the remaining 95 percent of the movement stands for what is listed above. The site politics/CIA, infighting, ect will be discussed farther down the page. Overall the movement is composed of excellent people who seem to be defeating the odds.

more here

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:44 | 1838565 dlmaniac
dlmaniac's picture

"Hmmm... How do I blame it on Bush, Republicans, Tea Party and so forth? Come on my prompter, show me a clue."

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 18:28 | 1838951 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Not a peep from CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS or any of the lamestream media except for the financial news outlets. Solyndra has been swept under the rug already. So has fast and furious. Obowow's media lackeys are pathetic and choose to sink with the ship rather than report the news

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 19:06 | 1839094 Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

To wit: Mum's the word from former neighbor and just as liberal Democrat, the reprobate Jim Cramer.

But then again, Cramer had nothing to say when his "best buddy and pal" Eliott Spitzer went down ( in both the literal and figurative sense ).

The media fawns may circle the wagons of silence round Corzine, but I do believe he I'll be the one who will be sacrificed upon the scales of justice by his ( former) political the Executive Branch. FBI involvement makes this essentially a foregone conclusion.

There will be a perp walk. And it will be a duesy.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:17 | 1839643 Fox Moulder
Fox Moulder's picture

He still might.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 23:08 | 1839773 bbbilly1326
bbbilly1326's picture

"Corzine would have made a great treasury secretary"


whaddya mean "would have" ..........FIRE GEITHNER




Congress will understand that everyone makes a mistake now and then......a la Turbo Timmy -- he worked out OK right ?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:23 | 1838464 Deadpool
Deadpool's picture

no Freudian confessions, please. There are thought police around, dontchaknow.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:56 | 1838854 CClarity
CClarity's picture

This "Emperor story" just posted in FT on Corzine.  British clever and worth a read.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 19:20 | 1839133 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

That there is the funniest shit I've read in months! Thanks for posting1

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 18:51 | 1839034 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

America is run by the mob and if you are in the family you do not go to jail , anyway do you really think TPTB give a shit about the people that lost money, they can do WHATEVER they want and nobody is going to stop them so shut up and get back to work so they can spend your tax money and carry on living the life of kings whilst you take a big bite of there shit sandwhich

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 04:23 | 1840004 fajensen
fajensen's picture

If it is rich people's money then "they" do care: Bernie Madoff went to jail. 

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:29 | 1838499 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Hard for me to sympathize with these people sometimes.  I wouldn't pay someone to think for me, which is basically what you're doing when you pay a fiduciary or money manager.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:37 | 1838539 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

OPM is a helliuva drug.

Other People's Money is a hell of a drug


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:18 | 1838697 Strider52
Strider52's picture

Doesn't "Corzine" sound like a drug name?

 When is a diet pill worth $130 a bottle? When it works. Introducing Corzine, the FAST weight-loss pill! Side-effects include:

  • Dry mouth, dry skin, dry arteries, dry brain
  • Urinary retention /pissing blood
  • Blurred vision / total blindness
  • Constipation, in some cases causing "full of shit" syndrome
  • Sedation (can interfere with driving or operating machinery, or standing, walking, breathing)
  • Sleep disruption (while thinking of jail)
  • Weight gain (laff)
  • Headache, evolving into massive strokes
  • Nausea, beyond dry heaves
  • Gastrointestinal disturbance/diarrhea/non-stop shitting
  • Abdominal pain (similar to a knife in the intestinal area)
  • Inability to achieve an erection (ever again)
  • Inability to achieve an orgasm (men and women)
  • Loss of libido
  • Agitation
  • Anxiety
  • Early Retirement
  • Instant Death 
Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:36 | 1838761 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Jena below posted a version of Corzine the drug, too.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:39 | 1838548 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Yes and no.  This is a major big deal but post Obama there are no laws.  Yeah it sucked pre-Obama but at least we sort of pretended there were laws.

The system is totally corrupt but when people put money in a brokerage account like this - it is supposed to be separate with a custodian never to be touched or stolen.  Corzine and the whole exec teams should get 30 years in prison.   The "mistake" will be magically fixed. 

Elections have consequences.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:19 | 1838700 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

There is no such thing as fiduciary responsibility any more.

The fact that these kinds of things are not bringing in the guys with guns and badges is becoming a criminal act in and of itself.

Washington ... if you can't find somebody to go to jail over this then maybe we need to start investigating Washington.

A rope is too good for'em.

And to think my little peon workers get arrested because they don't have proof of insurance.


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 19:36 | 1839181 fattail
fattail's picture

There is no fiduciary responsiblilty to not steal from your customers segregated accounts. 

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:51 | 1838590 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Ok Western. Please go & get some help before returning here...honest to god

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:00 | 1838635 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

Greetings! I'm just back from vaction. I have most of my net worth with MF global...whats this? you're glad you're not a customer; why has something bad happened?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:04 | 1838647 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Yeh, you posted again...asstroll

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:09 | 1838665 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:30 | 1838734 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Fckg Douchebag. No you cretin no exposure & take cretin as a compliment not an insult. Did you give yourself a green or what? Listen up & listen good - a lot of people take positions in attempt to hedge themselves against outright debasement or perhaps cover themselves in positions taken out a while ago. Is it funny that they could be victims of the latest scam? Do I hear no? Ok. So these people could have been smarter & looked at counterparty risks etc, but is this a reason to laugh at them Psychocunt?  


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:33 | 1838742 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

I often fantasize about shooting people like John Corzine in the head.


After 25 years of Military service I can't even begin to calculate the number of people to which I am directly and/or indirectly involved with the termination of their life. Adding one more would be of no consequence to my current mental condition. I would happily volunteer to be John Corzine's executioner. I would not even wear an executioners head covering if his execution was made a public affair. 

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:37 | 1838766 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Have you offered up your services LJS? Amercia could use a new leader? 

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 18:21 | 1838934 russki standart
russki standart's picture

Western, I understand how you feel but killing is a very bad idea. Better to send them to prison, penniless and disgraced, bunking with butt blaster  bubba. 

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 18:34 | 1838968 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Absolutely. It is better to see them rot (caught or not) than let them feel a martyr. The interent record of these folks, including Paul "The face of Enron" Krugman is never going to go away. Let them stew in it.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:00 | 1838636 NewThor
NewThor's picture

If Cozine makes it to a country with a no Extradition policy.

I think that's a strong signal 2012 is less than 2 months away.....


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:10 | 1838669 Messianic
Messianic's picture

I thought his nickname was "the villages"

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:16 | 1838421 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

They will fix it, just an accounting error, that whole debit and credit thing is very tricky, just ask any college freshman

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:19 | 1838438 Poule Mouillee
Poule Mouillee's picture

Are you thinking that a good German accountant could potentially find 55Billion on the other side of the ledger somewhere?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:21 | 1838453 eurogold
eurogold's picture

Only if he works for Price Waterhouse + Coopers !

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:24 | 1838717 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

It was hidden under the wiener schnitzel he left on the ledger book.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:19 | 1838442 101 years and c...
101 years and counting's picture

not to worry.  the treasury has the clients' backs.  americans will reimburse them for the theft by MF and then let the entire executive team go.  some middle manager going down and going to be raped repeatedly in prison though.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:21 | 1838448 Raskolnikoff
Raskolnikoff's picture

as simple as making a wrong input on turbo tax software.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:25 | 1838475 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Someone in accounting forgot to carry the 1.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:27 | 1838483 realitybiter
realitybiter's picture

of course they will fix it.  No financial loss, no crime.  No crime, no criminals.

12.1 million pays for a lot of campaign donations.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:09 | 1838667 Mike2756
Mike2756's picture

You mean he bought a pardon? Say it ain't so!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:32 | 1838494 GenX Investor
GenX Investor's picture

Yes, an accounting "glitch" the German government had borrowed and has yet to give back.

Wait a minute, let me just Dr Cash and Cr Shareholders Equty... there all fixed, nothing to see here...

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:21 | 1838704 RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

Actually the entry will be:           Dr                                                                    Cr

                                          Accounts Receivable-US Treasury $1.5 billion          Investor Accounts $1.5 billion

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:32 | 1838512 fyrebird
fyrebird's picture

Glitch. Everyone knew about it, it was nothing important.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:53 | 1838601 sunnydays
sunnydays's picture

Why the F - did Judge Glenn Martin give them 8 million to stay in business for 2 more weeks?!  So they can shred documents!


The MFs need to go to jail immedately!

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 04:44 | 1840014 fajensen
fajensen's picture

It is a global trend - they did the same when IT-factory (DK) went bust due to massive fraud by key employees: The board got full acces to all the records to do with what they like.

Problem is, the man hiring and supporting Stein Bagger (the main fraud) when questions were raised was the head of the board, Asger Jensby, a person who have a history of problems keeping his personal economy away from the that of the business. Jensby got 40 days for tax fraud.  

The serious fraud office (bagmandspolitiet) basically excluded Jensby from any investigation and even let him handle the potential evidence. 

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:21 | 1838710 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

It's not theft when you're doing "God's Work".

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:35 | 1838755 Goldtoothchimp09
Goldtoothchimp09's picture

EVERY MF employee aware that funds were being commingled -- and didn't tip off the regulators -- is a COWARDLY CRIMINAL - EVERY DAMN ONE!!

Doesn't matter if they weren't a manager or exec - they are all registered reps and they all know better.  Fucking COWARDLY SCUM !!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 18:26 | 1838948 nasa
nasa's picture

Expect to see a couple of Indian nationals in the next "high profile" perp (sacrifical lamb) walk as the boys at the SEC high-five each other for a job well done.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:14 | 1838413 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Owwww the ass raping, owww. I am sorry for the clients that are sitting out there in WTF land right now.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:17 | 1838427 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

'I am sorry for the clients that are sitting out there in WTF land right now.'


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:20 | 1838443 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

You say this based on what? Are they folks who "deserve" to be robbed?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:24 | 1838465 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Certainly not deserving. I'm just wondering who these 'folks' are. Savvy investors no question.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:29 | 1838495 Firing Pin
Firing Pin's picture

I'm one of their clients; I use a futures account for my business (a family owned business); we tried to wire $ out of MF last week and were given the slow-roll on doing the wire. So now we are trapped there. We work 14 hour days and are honest people. I'm not there gambling like some big hitter. You might have scrap metal dealers who need to hedge copper. Or confection producers who need to hedge the price of chocolate. Or trucking companies who need to hedge fuel costs, etc.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:45 | 1838571 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

damn that is fucked up. good luck. makes you wonder how systemic this fraud is.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:55 | 1838611 Arius
Arius's picture

well, Corzine was Goldman CEO, US Senator, Governor of NJ how much can someone accomplish in his lifetime ...these are the pillars of the society ... i can understand Bernie Maddoff stealing but someone like Corzine ?  you dont know anymore what and whom to trust ?  really i mean it ...

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:12 | 1838673 Sheriff Douchen...
Sheriff Douchenik from AZ's picture

You forgot to mention Democrat also.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:40 | 1838780 grey7beard
grey7beard's picture

>> You forgot to mention Democrat

So you're implying a Republican would never do this?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 19:58 | 1839245 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

@ Firing Pin


It's hard working honest people like you that are prime grade-a meat for the vampire squids out there. You've got to wise up. If you see the name Goldman Sachs anywhere within a 50 mile radius of the Firm you are thinking about doing business with, I think you should run as fast as you can in the other direction. It's like the scorpion and the frog. The scorpion just couldn't help himself. He's a scorpion.


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:22 | 1839660 Firing Pin
Firing Pin's picture

Careless Whisper, you can't go anywhere...the whole system is corrupt. Where can you bank? Bank of America? Chase? Where can you have a trading account? Almost every brokerage and futures firm is associated with, populated by, or run by an ex GS, JPM, etc., either on the board of directors, or somewhere in the firm. I tried to eject out of MF the week before they went wire was never processed. You're right about the scorpion.  The greedy bankers can't help themselves. I think MF was blown up on purpose so other big-boy banks could divy up the leftovers for pennies on the dollar.  Knowing that Corzine was in "in-the-know" circles, I find it highly unlikely that he would have made such a ham-fisted trade as going all-in on European debt.  Even a 23 year old broker could see that this was a bad "investment."  Speaking of the MF execs, where are they? Has anyone seen them on t.v.? Are they being given time to hide their assets before the perp walk?  WTF?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:23 | 1839661 Firing Pin
Firing Pin's picture

Careless Whisper, you can't go anywhere...the whole system is corrupt. Where can you bank? Bank of America? Chase? Where can you have a trading account? Almost every brokerage and futures firm is associated with, populated by, or run by an ex GS, JPM, etc., either on the board of directors, or somewhere in the firm. I tried to eject out of MF the week before they went wire was never processed. You're right about the scorpion.  The greedy bankers can't help themselves. I think MF was blown up on purpose so other big-boy banks could divy up the leftovers for pennies on the dollar.  Knowing that Corzine was in "in-the-know" circles, I find it highly unlikely that he would have made such a ham-fisted trade as going all-in on European debt.  Even a 23 year old broker could see that this was a bad "investment."  Speaking of the MF execs, where are they? Has anyone seen them on t.v.? Are they being given time to hide their assets before the perp walk?  WTF?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:44 | 1838799 11b40
11b40's picture

Give it a rest and wake up to the fact that it makes no difference which party they send most of their bribe money to.  Crooks are crooks, but the party game keeps us divided while they continue to loot.  It simply is not helpful.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 19:11 | 1839107 Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

You also forgot to mention future convicted felon.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:12 | 1838678 Mactheknife
Mactheknife's picture are so far behind I don't see you ever catching up. Just sayin.  Goldman not stealing from their own clients?  Really? Senators and Governors "pillars of the society"? Really? You do realize that this is not 1950?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 18:51 | 1839038 riley martini
riley martini's picture

I caught the Goldman soucks comment also . My taxes go up every year while my property value goes down . I pay to a county that was defrauded by Goldmans' ABACUS fraud . Instutional investors =Muni gov ,pensions ,charities, school districs ect .

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:23 | 1838719 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

That's exactly the point some have been trying to convey here at Zerohedge for some time now. Why is this such a surprise to everyone?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:50 | 1838584 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture



You have to understand most of these posting anymore wouldn't have 10 bucks to place in an account in the first place.


Sorry to hear you are impacted.


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:12 | 1838674 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Do you only the funds in cash or also your options?
Aren't personal? They just keep them, don't own them.

Maybe try to lookup the main shareholders and sue them?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 19:50 | 1839221 fattail
fattail's picture

Feel for you, Pin.  Maybe there will be a transfer from the Fed's balance sheet to yours.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:29 | 1838498 realitybiter
realitybiter's picture

I have a MF account.  Was Lind-Waldock.  It has been mayhem since Friday.  Liquidation trades only.  Money is frozen, you cannot transfer.  The MF employees have no idea what is going on.


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:37 | 1838540 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

That's unfortunate. Good luck.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:47 | 1838577 Firing Pin
Firing Pin's picture

BTW, there is no SIPC coverage for futures accounts...because client funds are supposed to be segregated from the firm's if the firm goes under your money is supposed to be there and you can transfer out or eventually get it. Obviously this isn't the case at MF Global.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:02 | 1838641 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Understood. I am glad you were kind enough to enlighten me, my apology if my commentary was callous.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:20 | 1838706 Firing Pin
Firing Pin's picture

Appreciate the sentiments. Have a good day.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:38 | 1838772 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture



So far I have seen two victims here re MF Global.  I really wish ALL of you the best of luck.

Jon Corzine: Biggest POS on planet Earth!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:35 | 1838757 Dadburnitpa
Dadburnitpa's picture

Corzine is worth $300 million.  Why not comingle his personal funds with those accounts that were stolen.  That would begin to repay some of those who he robbed.  In a real hard time, ass pounding prison, the money won't do him much good anyway.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:38 | 1838777 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Excellent idea!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:43 | 1838770 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 That is just wrong! I feel for you.  Reminds me of the 401-k's sell off, and the Mutual Fund debacle.

   Tylers a little help?  Update. We all know this crap has been happening from 07, and it sucks. I have always managed my money.



         cALL ME A WHINER!   That is some people being screwed over.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 18:13 | 1838916 pelican
pelican's picture

I would drive over to Corzine's house and start cleaning it out.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:25 | 1838473 TIMMAYYY
TIMMAYYY's picture

weve known about this for a year...fuck them if they dont read...

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:40 | 1838524 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Do you believe in God,
Mr. Le Chiffre?


I believe in
a reasonable rate of return.

I want no risk in the portfolio.



Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:35 | 1838527 SpeakerFTD
SpeakerFTD's picture

Really?  You've known MF was stealing for a year?   No.  

And on behalf of all former MF clients, go fuck yourself, you smug piece of shit.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:48 | 1838578 jcaz
jcaz's picture

LOL-  Timmayyyy... You can't spell or use proper grammar, but you were on top of MF before Corzine even started trading?

You're God-like....  Or just another internet tool, seeking the attention that Mommy and Daddy never gave....

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:53 | 1838598 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

everybody be doing God's like work on the tubes dontcha know boss!


Most of these clowns couldn't find a/the future if you shoved it in their eye.

skullfucking dumbshits.


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:37 | 1838768 knukles
knukles's picture


A man who understands the proper use of the term "Skullfuck".  An action taken by Wall Street to it's client base.  Generally applied when one returns to re-rape the dead rotting empty useless corpse.  Without remorse, even the Joy of A Job Well Done.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:35 | 1838500 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Please let some of them be Sicilian, Columbian or Yakuza launderers.   Oh man, that would be the freaking sweetest if these jag bags owed "The Godmother" Griselda Blanco money.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:18 | 1839298 polizeros
polizeros's picture

I'm thinking this may be exactly what happened in some way. Money laundering for organized crime. Something went badly wrong.

Ask Allen Stanford what happened to him when something went badly wrong. No bail, put in general population in prison, had the shit beaten out of him by inmates, got addicted to painkillers and anti-depressants, now just apparently a broken shell of his former self.

I wonder, who did he piss off?

P.S. Antonio Maria Costa, head of the UN Office on Drugs and Crime, said $352 billion in drug money laundered by banks kept the financial system going during the peak of the 2008 financial crisis.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:24 | 1838450 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

I don't have much pity for them. They chose to continue playing the casino game. A fucking retard understands the house has been cheating to win for some time now. Most are nothing but gambling addicts. I have the same apathetic feeling for gamblers at the casino down the road who throw away their Social Security every month at the slot machines.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:29 | 1838496 reading
reading's picture

It wouldn't have mattered it their account was all cash.  They didn't lose the money in any casino gambling.  

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:36 | 1838534 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

It matters not. We know these people lie, cheat, and steal. I wouldn't trust someone like Corzine with a penny.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:37 | 1838542 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Once the cash hits their account, all you have are chips with their name on them, that in this case, turned out to be nonredeemable.

Due diligence?

(of course I tried to open up a forex acct at REFCO the day before they blew-up, so what do I know )

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:46 | 1838573 max2205
max2205's picture

Soon we will find out this is related to the GUNS FOR MONEY scandal. More like GUNS FOR COMMODITIES / PIG BONDS/ somebodys pocket/ CIA project. No one goes behind bars. Bet me

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:32 | 1838511 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I generally agree. I think of folks like my mother. She is disabled and infirm. You, the tax payer, are NOT having to pay for her care because my family and I did not take our inheritance and instead we pooled the money and created a trust fund for her so that no one of us would be burdened with her care. Should she get screwed? Now, I will admit, I have begged the person in control of her finances to pull her out of the market in 2007. They went to the broker, the broker said everything would be fine, and my mother took a 40% haircut.  

My point. I could be angry at my relatives for not taking my advice, but I am not a broker. They TRUSTED the advice of the little dick who does not get paid to tell them to put her in PMs and cash. It has never been spoken of that they made that decision and it had this result. And I won't bring it up because it does no good.  Not everyone has enough time to DOD. My relative tried and did the best she could. I only got a clue in 2005, myself, I was as lost as any of those folks we call sheep around here. 

BTW, my mother is brain injured (retarded).

These people trusted people who were supposed to be professionals. If they knew they were theives, of course they wouldn't give them the money. We can't all be experts at everything. We'd have to grow our own food, make our own medicine. Oh wait, there are people there cheating us and endangering us too.

It just isn't that easy.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:41 | 1838556 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 A Fantastic person you are.   We all respect and know that.  Let's focus on moving forward. Your Mother want's that!


      You are a good woman, share your skills. 

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:54 | 1838602 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

And I won't bring it up because it does no good.


Not bringing it up does no good. Saying something, might be painful, it might not..

But it will do some good.



Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:07 | 1838658 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Arrow up. I will consider it. I normally do speak my mind, but I don't want to hurt her, she has done a great deal for my mother that is good. 

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:12 | 1838676 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

bring it up; i've been talking for 3 years about gold and silver and my family have finally bought some this year...albeit relatively insignificant could start along the lines of, "what if there isn't a recovery, what if it gets worse - you at least want to hedge for that"

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 19:14 | 1839114 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

I think a ZeroHedge contributor slot should be opened up for you.  If you'd list where the little dick put your mom's trust fund money, many here could, uh, critique it.  Sorry about your mom. 

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 00:23 | 1839878 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

If I had direct access to the info I'd show it now. I know generally she was in PM related stocks, energy, and, wait for it, banks. My uncle designed her portfolio before he died. Old school logic, not a bad guy. But it was the broker who said leave it as it is, it will come back.

I think there are a lot of folks out there who have been told this is the right thing to do: smart, patriotic (investing in your country), salt of the earth. When I blew the warning call, my relative went into action. Afterwards she was angry at me for scaring her and putting her to all that trouble (meanwhile my mother had already lost 10%). I was in the dog house for a while. Then the bottom fell out. That was a time I would be grateful to be wrong. But the thing of it was, I am forever the girl, the young niece. Never mind I have a Ph.D. and I am in my 40s. I sent her a ton of articles from mainstream sources. In her position, her choice was the experienced "broker" or her niece. What is she supposed to do? How do you tell her to listen to me and make that make sense? She is not nuts, just wrong. And now we are scrambling worse, but that is another story. For now, my mother is okay.

That is why I can't, just can't, be one dimensionally angry at "the sheep." The Bankers are the ones fleecing. If they had a good business model, something of real value to sell, then there would be no need of all this Ponzi scamming. We'd happily invest, they would happily help take care of my mother. Win-win. It is not to be. This is the real tragedy.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 05:16 | 1840031 fajensen
fajensen's picture

It is very hard to convince people. Once they commit to something, they will rather keep sending the checks to that nigerian prince than admit that they were conned and face the pain of the loss. 

The bankers *have to loot* to maintain "growth" and governments *have to let them* because the looting is the only viable business model to them because globalisation is pushing wages and prices - whereupon taxes are collected - towards zero, while the government grows in scope and power needing ever more funding.

The model is broken and as with any religion things will only change when we run out of people willing to die for their faith. We will need to see a Russia-style default in the western economies before this mess can begin to clear.

Kill the body (the finance industry) and the head (the government enablers) will die. The risk is that whatever replace them will be much worse. 

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:55 | 1838607 giddy
giddy's picture

Very sad situation... brokers = disintermediation + disinformation expertise    

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:05 | 1838650 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Anyone up for a cuddle?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:51 | 1838591 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Way to have a clue about what's going on, Dollar-  do you even know what a clearing firm does?  


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:03 | 1838631 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

It's obvious that people here don't realize how easy it is to fudge shit and get away with it. There are billions worth of commingled money out there in the economy and it's buying shit that it should not be buying. Hell, it should get it's own monetary classification, call it MC. Anytime you deposit your money anywhere you should keep that in mind. Don't listen to me though... I'm just an idiot... Everyone can junk me and make themselves feel better.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:14 | 1838682 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

No junk from me. I just disagree. Happens in a community.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:17 | 1838692 jcaz
jcaz's picture

"....billions worth of commingled money..."

WTF IS that jibberish?  My 8 yr old refers to his allowance as "worth money".

Thanks for clearing up that you're an idiot, tho- we were having so much trouble determining it ourselves......

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:32 | 1838729 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Ever here of this?

EDIT: Never mind, I see you now. There are so many satirists here I can't keep track of them... Haha...

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:12 | 1839627 Jena
Jena's picture

I agree completely.  There are plenty of people who think they're doing all the best possible things, yet getting screwed one way or another.  It's easy to sit here and believe that we are forewarned and have the answers and are prepared for all the contingencies that are coming our way.  

No doubt some of us reading these words will be caught short in WTF land despite our own best efforts.  Here's to all of us.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 00:01 | 1839856 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

The last dregs of wine in my glass will serve me well. A toast. We will ALL be caught short some kind of way. That is why we need community.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:15 | 1838415 The4thStooge
The4thStooge's picture

Off with their motherfuckin heads!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:17 | 1838432 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

General Strike today -

Bank Transfer, Nov 5 -

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:52 | 1838593 XitSam
XitSam's picture

The General Strike is today?  I would never have known if you hadn't mentioned it.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:59 | 1838626 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

It wasn't on Jersey Shore?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 18:13 | 1838920 XitSam
XitSam's picture

That's a TV show, right?  I don't have a TV. Yes, really.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:00 | 1838632 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

Unfortunately in Oakland, the "masses" are going to occupy in front of any business or *school* that's open in Oakland today. Way to go, guys! Hope that $100/day Soros is paying you will cover the ER co-pay once the OPD goes medieval on your patchouli-soaked asses.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:10 | 1838663 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

I recommend knowing what you're talking about before opening you mouth, lest you come off as an ignorant couch jockey internet tough guy.

I wonder if you can make a case for your ardent support of the public school system?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:56 | 1838852 11b40
11b40's picture

Shouldn't you be doing your homework?  Your dad will be home soon, and he's gonna be pissed if you are still messing with his computer.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 00:03 | 1839857 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

It is possible what they are doing will be useless and ineffectual, by why be that angry at them?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:16 | 1838416 Deadpool
Deadpool's picture

can Bernie (Ebbers & Madoff) and Corzine get adjoining cells? Or maybe a fiery cavern with Ken Lay....

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:34 | 1838747 yabyum
yabyum's picture

Why are you people crying for jail time? The Gulf Stream is on final approach to Paraguay.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:44 | 1838801 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1

Would not surprise me a bit.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:48 | 1838822 yabyum
yabyum's picture

DoChen, the C5 cargo plane with the loot is in the air:) That gold stuff is damn heavy!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:15 | 1838417 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

The CEO definitely must go to jail.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:16 | 1838425 Hansel
Hansel's picture

Along with everyone who went along with it.

OT:  Does anyone have a link to the transcript for today's Fed press conference?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:33 | 1838520 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

Hans, link at bottom. or click the click here

 The hawkish Fed  board members, who opposed the 'operation twist' vote last month, stayed on their perches this time around, and just the lonesome dove, Chicago Fed President Charles Evans dissented, complaining that the Fed did not do more to stimulate the economy.

Last month, as you recall, there were three dissenters, the most since the early 1990s.


Nomura U.S. economist Jeff Greenberg said the Evans dissent was interesting in that it may be sending a message on timing:

"If the Committee were really considering easing further at the December meeting, but considered November inappropriate since they announced initiatives after the previous two meetings, then Evans would have withheld his dissent. We can deduce from his decision to dissent that easing is not coming in December, barring a significant change in the outlook," Greenberg wrote.

Courtesy of CRT Capital's senior Treasury strategist Ian Lyngen, a copy of the latest Fed statement, along with the changes made, click here.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:52 | 1838597 Hansel
Hansel's picture

I'm looking for the press conference transcript, not the Fed statement.  Thanks though.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:17 | 1838435 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

In China, he would be executed, in Japan he would commit Harakiri

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:24 | 1838471 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

That's Old Japan. There aren't any dead Tepco executives lying around... they learned from US managers well.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:27 | 1838489 Deadpool
Deadpool's picture

they all evacuated to Guam.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:02 | 1838640 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

Have you been to Guam? That's punishment. Hafa day!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:36 | 1838531 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Actually, there was some serious shame / bursting into tears / resignations in the upper echelons.


No suicides yet because the issue hasn't been resolved.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:57 | 1838622 fuu
fuu's picture

Wasn't Masataka Shimizu hospitalized for a bit before he resigned this spring?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:20 | 1838701 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

He was, but I take that as a sort of Victorian thing... you know, 125 years ago, when you were stressed out you went to a "hospital" in Cape Cod, Saratoga Springs, someplace with clean air, etc.

He wasn't hospitalized for radiation exposure, that's for certain.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:08 | 1839464 fuu
fuu's picture

Or for a gaping wound in his abdomen and a head attached by a thin strip of flesh.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:30 | 1838501 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

In America, he moves to the next company and gets a RAISE.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:35 | 1838528 Manthong
Manthong's picture

If anything, this is resume' enhancement for a job like US Treasury Secretary.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 17:26 | 1838723 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

Let's hope that obibble gets him the job. It will be a well deserved defeat.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:24 | 1838468 caerus
caerus's picture

nah...he'll be made secretary of the treasury...looks like he's got the stealing from the people part pretty much down

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 16:37 | 1838536 Manthong
Manthong's picture

If I had read the very next post, I wouldn't have espressed the same sentiment. : )

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