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Michael Krieger On The Rebirth Of Barter

Tyler Durden's picture


Via Michael Krieger of 'A Lightning War For Liberty' blog,

Justice in the hands of the powerful is merely a governing system like any other. Why call it justice? Let us rather call it injustice, but of a sly effective order, based entirely on cruel knowledge of the resistance of the weak, their capacity for pain, humiliation and misery.
- Georges Bernanos


Outwardly we have a Constitutional government. We have operating within our government and political system, another body representing another form of government, a bureaucratic elite which believes our Constitution is outmoded.
- Senator William Jenner
(1908-1985) U.S. Senator (IN-R)


The Final Act of the Uruguay Round, marking the conclusion of the most ambitious trade negotiation of our century, will give birth – in Morocco – to the World Trade Organization, the third pillar of the New World Order, along with the United Nations and the International Monetary Fund.
- Government of Morocco
April, 1994   Source: New York Times, full page ad by the government of Morocco


The Rebirth of Barter
One of the most important articles I have read this week comes from Forbes contributor Gordon Chang.  In it he states that China is preparing to avoid U.S. sanctions on Iran by paying for oil with gold.  Not only that but he also mentions that China has already been bartering with Iran to get a hold of petroleum.  He states:

So how can Beijing keep both Iran’s ayatollahs and President Obama happy at the same time?  Simple, the Chinese can avoid the U.S. sanctions through barter.  China has already been trading its produce for Iran’s petroleum, but there is only so much gai lan and bok choy the Iranians can eat.  That’s why Iran is also accepting, among other goods, Chinese washing machines, refrigerators, toys, clothes, cosmetics, and toiletries.


The barter trade works, but Iran needs cash too.  As it is being cut off from the global financial system, the next best thing is gold.  So we should not be surprised that in late February the Iranian central bank said it would accept that metal as payment for oil.   Last year, China imported $21.7 billion in Iranian oil and exported $14.8 billion in goods and services.  As the NDAA goes into effect, look for Beijing to ship gold to Iran to make up the difference.

Thus, the leadership in America in its infinite stupidity has actually accelerated the demise of the U.S. dollar as the world’s reserve currency.  After its “kinetic action” in Libya succeeded in toppling the regime there, Washington’s geopolitical hubris grew and it has attempted to muscle Iran into a corner.  Instead, all it has done is alienated our “allies” that need Iranian oil to survive and in the process quickened a move away from the dollar to settle certain transactions.  Read Gordon’s article here.

In a similar move on a more micro level, the government of Spain in a similar desperation has banned the use of cash transactions above 2,500 euros (read this great article here on it).  How do you think citizens are going to respond to this?  People are already in the streets.  They are not pleased with what is going on.  Then the government is going to tell them they can’t use cash amongst themselves so that the authorities can track every single thing they do and bleed them with taxes until they are slaves on a banker plantation.  Everything is going to go black market and to a barter system.  It will happen country by country as governments get increasingly desperate and the authoritarian clamp down continues.  It will happen on an increasing level until all of these house of cards bureaucratic states fail and something new is reborn.  In case you haven’t seen it yet, this one town in Greece is already leading the way. This story outlines what will be a mega trend globally over the next decade.


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Fri, 04/27/2012 - 17:48 | 2381221 Tsunami Wave
Tsunami Wave's picture

But people in government may believe barter is bad because you avoid paying taxes, and you don't use cash for anything.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 17:55 | 2381228 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

I thought cash was the terrorist currency of choice. Didn't the FBI tell us so? all I know is that it is a huge waste of my time to stand behind someone in Starbucks who needs 3 minutes to pay for his mocha latte with a debit card. Just another form of taxation paid in the value of my time.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:30 | 2381259 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Max Keiser said that Mike Krieger told him about the Buy Silver - Crash JPM Movement that was started here, on Zero Hedge, so I thought I would take the liberty to post the blog of the person who started the Buy Silver Movement on Mike's post, here on Zero Hedge.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:53 | 2381346 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Even for oil, I dont see China giving up its gold - at least not yet.

Unless they get it immediately back in the form of payment for something else - a phantom transaction.

What, China ships its gold to Iran, so that the US can later invaid and take it along with the oil?

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:03 | 2381367 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

It's all a question of price. They keep the gold in hand until enough barrels are offered to make it worthwhile. As much value as their is to be gained from holding wealth through a dollar collapse, they still have to have sufficient energy to keep their society from collapsing along with it.

It's a very fine line. One which we all walk.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:24 | 2381393 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

Banning transactions above $2500EU ?


They are really pushing those digit cards.


Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:53 | 2381398 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture




Paying the Imperial Tax to Caesar, from Mark 13

13 Later they sent some of the Pharisees and Herodians to Jesus to catch him in his words. 14 They came to him and said, “Teacher, we know that you are a man of integrity. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right to pay the imperial tax[b] to Caesar or not? 15 Should we pay or shouldn’t we?”

But Jesus knew their hypocrisy. “Why are you trying to trap me?” he asked. “Bring me a denarius and let me look at it.”16 They brought the coin, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

“Caesar’s,” they replied.

17 Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.”

And they were amazed at him.

From the Book of Revelation, verses 16-17, the last book in The Bible, thought to be written by the apostle John.

It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

What's in your wallet?

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 20:03 | 2381439 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Revelations, the original ZH post.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 20:43 | 2381502 CIABS
CIABS's picture

Hey Mike, how about "born" rather than "reborn"?  I don't see much that I would like to see reborn when the time comes.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 21:44 | 2381583 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Classic: "Who run Bartertown?"...

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 23:17 | 2381697 forexskin
forexskin's picture

Everything is going to go black market and to a barter system.  It will happen country by country as governments get increasingly desperate and the authoritarian clamp down continues.  It will happen on an increasing level until all of these house of cards bureaucratic states fail and something new is reborn.

when the corrupt fall, a little push to move things along a bit more quickly - barter helps starve them. they can print and tax to take our productivity, but only if they can see it, like when we use their currency

this is, and has been historically, just one of many effective responses to tyrrany - good news.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 00:50 | 2381762 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Forex, the reality probably is that the "dream scenario" for th ePTB is a small, wild, bartering community doing their thing while hundreds of millions get stamped.

Northern Europe, the home of Mobile Everything is clearly going CAshless. Norway, recently Sweden. In India, coinage is fast going all aluminium and tin.... bigger and bigger denomination banknotes....

Same story everywhere.... The fact that they can even dream of corralling a country of INdia's size and diversity should be a tell. GST/VAT/Unique ID number, Cell phones for everyone.

You will really HAVE to disconnect to disconnect.

Unless a big ole CME comes and puts electronics in it's place.


My Music on le Tube

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 07:51 | 2381958 buckethead
buckethead's picture

Scary truth.


Another point which I have yet to see presented is how so many Europeans demand greater social services/pensions/mass transit... get them and don't like the tax tally at the end of the day.

Things and stuff are neato until the bill comes.


simplistic, I know, but still very relevant.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 10:48 | 2382169 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

They want someone else to pay the bill, preferable in some other country or even the future generations.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 20:26 | 2381471 donsluck
donsluck's picture

Who cares? This is ZH, we are not concerned with your sole (sp?). Just another irrelevant Christian fundamentalist.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 21:45 | 2381584 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



This damned soul cares.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 22:48 | 2381667 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

I'm with the replicant.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 22:54 | 2381673's picture

we are not concerned with your sole


What a heel.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 01:29 | 2381795 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

"You gotta pay the troll toll, if you want inside this boys hole!"

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 08:48 | 2382010 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

You gotta pay the troll toll to get in.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 10:38 | 2382156 Midas
Midas's picture

My avatar does not appreciate you getting the lyrics wrong.  There is no rape scene.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 01:44 | 2381806 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

my gold coin has a dead indian on it; guess its mine now.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 04:46 | 2381882 Cast Iron Skillet
Cast Iron Skillet's picture

I have one of those, too. How do you know he's dead? ... I always figured I'd meet him someday ...

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 11:50 | 2382269 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

What's in my wallet?  Cash.  

It's not the time for those of us who know what's coming to start trading washing machines for gasoline.   It's time for us to use cash only, and shop at independent owner operated businesses ONLY.   Leave the rest to the business owners.   This is our underground today.   Sure, I've got metals and if you want to buy your buddies pistol for 1/2 an oz of gold that's cool.  It's just not necessary and I'd rather keep my gold.

I spent a week on the big island of Hawaii last month and saw at least 100 places with this sign out front "cash only".   When I see that, I'm there.   When Hawaiian's start experiencing the wrath of the Tax Collector that's when they should resort to torches.  And when we all sit on a jury of people who are fighting back against the machine we ignore the judge's "instructions" and say "not guilty"!!  That IS our power, and it's the ONLY power we have left...and when they take that power away, which they will, then we know what's next.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:34 | 2381404 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I agree Plad, but if this is going to happen, my guess is that the BRICS States are lining up future trade deals by using payments other than dollars.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 20:56 | 2381520 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

American hegemony rests on four powers of empire:

  1. Control of energy
  2. Control of currency
  3. Control of food & labor
  4. Control of military


Poor countries found out if they band together they don't need Uncle Sam after all.


Energy: Iran and Russia

Food: Brazil

Labor: China & India

Military: Russia


Only thing they are lacking is the common currency. With internet and computers, they can easily create their own exchanges.


Fri, 04/27/2012 - 21:20 | 2381538 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

Good. Its time for it to end.

i'm an isolationist more every day.

leave them to it and let them fuck camels and wank over jerusalem.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 05:32 | 2381899 mc_LDN
mc_LDN's picture

Well its really 2.

1 - Currency

2 - Military Full Spectrum Dominance - this covers resources such as energy, food and water

So the BRICS are knocking out Pillar 1.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 08:27 | 2381981 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Caucasus, bitches.  The next big thing will be in the Caucasus.  Everyone with a big military has a stake there: Europe, China, Russia, U.S.  The other thing to watch for is the growing Chinese naval presence / influence in the western Pacific and the IO.

Don't let your children enlist.


Excellent Oil Transport map (pdf), can be magnified:


Sat, 04/28/2012 - 13:12 | 2382371 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Don't let your children enlist.

worth repeating.  don't encourage anyone to volunteer to kill other people, and their children - while being filled with poisons used on those other people, and used by the pharma corps(e) to test pysche drugs and the insane inventions of  biowarfare on.

why on earth would anyone let this happen, and especially to their own?

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 12:17 | 2382300 ironsky
ironsky's picture

What do those counytries have in common for me? I wouldn't be caught dead in any one of them. However that doesn't invalidate your point. Many people have been caught prematurely dead in all of them. 

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:44 | 2381412 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

"Even for oil, I dont see China giving up its gold - at least not yet."

China should just trade Iran nukes for oil. Then Iran has 'em and this whole Israeli proxy war bullshit is a moot point and we don't get in another expensive war based on a bunch of lies.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 21:01 | 2381526 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Why would China give Iran nukes when comrad Russia is already doing that?

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 21:48 | 2381550 i-dog
i-dog's picture

One can never have too many nukes. Just ask the Axis of Evil powers -- the US and Israel....

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 07:53 | 2381964 Badabing
Badabing's picture

I'm looking for reson

what do you have to trade?



Sat, 04/28/2012 - 10:50 | 2382174 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Don't forget Western Europe....

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 21:18 | 2381554 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

Interesting. Sounds like Russia may be at the very least providing them with materials and equipment for reactors. Not sure that's news. Gotta' wonder if the CIA/Mossad had a hand in that plane going down.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 22:02 | 2381615 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Already done.  Wake up.  China to Pakistan to N. Korea to Iran.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 00:28 | 2381749 Agent P
Agent P's picture

Reminds me of the time I flew from Minneapolis to Seattle via Atlanta.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 08:03 | 2381973 DutchR
DutchR's picture

Actually it was  the US that gave nuclear technology to Pakistan.

Abdul Qadeer Khan was working in The Netherlands (at Urenco) and gathered information on nuclear technology to build a Islamic bomb.

The Dutch had him under surveillance but where asked ordered (by US) to let him go to Pakistan so they (cia) could have better knowledge of the Pakistani nuclear smuggling operations, right [rolleyes].

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 23:03 | 2381664 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



What, China ships its gold to Iran, so that the US can later invaid and take it along with the oil?

US will not invade Iran.

China and Russia have drawn the line at Iran.  US invades Iran, it'll start WWIII, and US will lose (and they know it).

Cutting Iran off from US dollars is all this bankrupt government can do, and like the author says, Russia and China thumb their noses at America, using their currencies to buy Iranian oil, using gold, trading products for petroleum, etc.

No, Iran does not need US dollars, not when Russia can supply all the military stuff Iran needs, and China can supply anything else Iran needs.  

That's the point.  Iran doesn't need anything from America anymore, and it doesn't need US dollars either.

And no, Iran isn't afraid of US military action either, not when Russia and China are firmly on their side and have warned America do not invade Iran or they will destroy America.

Iran might retaliate by boycotting euros, demanding payment in yuan or gold.   This would put Europe in a real bind, unable to buy Iranian oil, as well as enhancing the status of the yuan in international trade.

There is no way a debtor nation like America can keep calling the shots around the world.   The US dollar is getting so weak now, a major geopolitical event could collapse it overnight. 

Russia and China working together are capable of such an event, and both would love to see the dollar collapse.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 07:39 | 2381956 Marco
Marco's picture

China can't handle collapse of the dollar ... to allow the dollar to collapse would mean they would have to significantly increase their internal consumption or face an economic collapse.

The billionaires in the diet don't want their peons to get uppity, they like them starving and eager ... of course they don't really want to get paid in devaluing dollars either, but for the moment that's still what they are going for. They imagine themselves in between a rock and a hard place (with the obvious solution, sharing a bit of the wealth, not even entering their thoughts).

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 10:08 | 2382104 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

China can't handle the collapse of the dollar and can't handle not having the dollar collapse. Their actions reveal which option they're betting on.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 00:07 | 2381739 GlenD
GlenD's picture

Russia might have something to say about that, they have already massed troops on Irans northern border. Not to mention the Chinese general that has promised nucleur retaliation if Iran is attacked.

But idiots think US is unbeatable. They don't realize the cake walk into Iraq was nothing but a show for the sheeple. Gadaffi wrote in his will that he was offered asylum which he refused. Did Hussen refuse? Was it really Hussein they hanged? Truth can be stranger than fiction.

Iran has 3.8 million in their army that have experienced the taste of US domination. 

China has the industrial might to win a conventional war against any nation of earth.

US air force has an ageing fleet of jet fighters, its oldest in history. Its carrier fleet were surprized recently by a surfacing of Chinese submarine inside its fleet, totally undetected. Its replacement of 30 yo nucleur missles delayed because unskilled engineers. US can't even build bridges without importing chinese workers!

The US will be real sorry for starting WW3. They cannot win a convential war so it will end-up nucleur.





Sat, 04/28/2012 - 00:32 | 2381752 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"the cake walk into Iraq was nothing but a show for the sheeple."

Not true. The neocons have fallen right out of favour in the Central Planning Committees™ since they fucked up in Iraq.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 02:14 | 2381818 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Not true. Romney is completely cacooned by neo-conz.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 07:34 | 2381832 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Not true. The neocons in the CNP are doing everything they can to diminish Romney and get Santorum back into the race. Check out their mouthpiece sites.

The fact is that the neocons are out of favour and the left hand of the cabal will be continuing with Obomber. Romney is a weak-as-piss Obomber-wannabee tool.

Hillary is the only neocon in the mix at the moment!

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 08:46 | 2382005 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

What about the story of Jeb Bush and the brokered convention?

That, would be something. Yet another Burning Bush Atop Capitoline Hill.

Plus the cake walk in Iraq was totaly engineered. No way that many battle hardned troops just gave up.

Most of the "fighting" has been with militia, not military. 

I'm sure many liked to believe the story of the Iraqui Republican Guards coming knees knocking at the might of the US army bearing down on them. Too funny.



Sat, 04/28/2012 - 12:20 | 2382301 ironsky
ironsky's picture

Want to provide some detail on that engineered cakewalk?

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 14:09 | 2382442 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

I especially enjoyed the part of the cake walk that involved the use of a fuel-air weapon that made the Brits think we had used a nuke.  They were furious at not being notified -- it blinded one of their spy satellites. 

The Marines had to wait a while before going through the hole that was opened in the Iraqi lines, to make sure that the air would be breathable.  Pussies.  Real men breathe pure carbon dioxide and ask for more!

This, by the way, was the point at which all the military geniuses on CNN were saying that we would lose at least 5000 troops in the invasion.  We lost 38. 

And the frosting on that cake must have been 73 Easting -- the largest armored battle since WWII.

Right, ORI.  Too damn easy.  We'll make sure the next one looks harder.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 10:13 | 2382112 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

"Hillary is the only neocon in the mix at the moment"

and the most dangerous

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 13:25 | 2382384 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

but in truth, she's been a patient player for decades now, moving the chess pieces carefully, including the big dumb ego of her husband, creeping stealthily towards Power. . .

she's learned well from all her mentors, and is passing on the knowledge to her daughter. . . who married Orthodox, mmHmm. . .

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 01:16 | 2381783 Hangfire
Hangfire's picture

Not sure what the 3.8 million man army is going to do against cruise missiles, maybe shoot their AK's straight up and cross their fingers.  Still not getting the invasion part of this whole thing.   

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 10:52 | 2382180 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

A cruise missile can't invade and occupy a country and secure its oilfields

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 07:52 | 2381961 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

What, China ships its gold to Iran, so that the US can later invaid and take it along with the oil?

Well spotted. Funny tought indeed.

And China is not alone in the boat. Others might be led to exchange their gold for Iranian oil.

US citizens might also conclude that Iran had called it on them by loading up on gold like that.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 21:38 | 2382957 AnAnomalous
AnAnomalous's picture


And China is not alone in the boat. Others might be led to exchange their gold for Iranian oil.

Astuteness is your hallmark, Chinese comrade of mine!

As all know, China is not alone in boat, for surely --- but soon, China will in control boat, not letting others dictate to great Chinese state and Communist Party who is to not allowing resources to flow to natural home.

Great China shall rule over all!



Sat, 04/28/2012 - 05:05 | 2381889 VonManstein
VonManstein's picture

dont see DXY touching 81 next week

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 22:01 | 2381614 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

well honey i only take bitcoin

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 04:13 | 2381866 rotagen
rotagen's picture

Starbucks is the epitome of stupid, strip mall cattle-brained americanism.  And they're a zionist israeli company to boot. They'll never get a penny of my money.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 11:03 | 2382198 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

So it was you whose debit card was rejected!

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 17:54 | 2381233 SilverDoctors
SilverDoctors's picture

Barter is popping up all over Europe.  Won't be long before we see the same here in the US. 
Looks like Blythe Masters is preparing to barter with her clients' silver....JP Morgan just adjusted their entire customer silver book into dealer holdings yesterday....5 million ounces in a single pop!

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:07 | 2381260 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



I once tried bartering for sex but she told me I came up short of her asking price.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:00 | 2381363 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

"I once tried bartering for sex but she told me I came up short"  Does that make you Not So Big Ching-aso?

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 22:40 | 2381653 ihedgemyhedges
ihedgemyhedges's picture

How long u been married?????????????????????????

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 22:51 | 2381671 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



Marriage has been great for my sex life.   When it happens on that one special day of the year.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 04:19 | 2381870 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Yeah, whether you want it or not...

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 08:39 | 2382002 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture


Sat, 04/28/2012 - 10:15 | 2382117 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

did you get a loan extension?

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 23:44 | 2381498 Jorgen
Jorgen's picture

Barter is not such an old idea after all. It was an essential part of Soviet Bloc's Comecon (Council for Mutual Economic Assistance).

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:09 | 2381274 CH1
CH1's picture

But people in government may believe....

I guess I'll just say it: Who the fuck cares what they believe?


Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:04 | 2381369 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Well, it matters if they have guns, or some other form of force to wield over you. But I get what you're saying.

Fuck 'em, and their law!

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:40 | 2381333 Red Heeler
Red Heeler's picture

There will be two economies: the official system and the barter system. Everyone will participate in both - the official system to maintain the appearance of legitimacy and the barter system to conduct as much daily business as is practicable.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:55 | 2381357 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

All the underdogs-- independent sob's, christians, free-booters, non-muslims, patriots will be operating the black market.

They will not take the mark.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 21:03 | 2381530 i-dog
i-dog's picture

That sounds exactly like my two sets of books.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 21:46 | 2381586 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



Just two?

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 00:39 | 2381757 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Only two that the accountant knows about....

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:31 | 2381397 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

The IRS has already put forth the tax on barter rules and if you think that when they are desperate enough for money that they won't crack down on all forms of exchanges(ie. flea markets, Craigslist, etc.)?,,id=187920,00.html

Get real people. .Gov wants a cut...

Abolish the IRS. Move to a Fairtax or whatever can replace it except this monstrous over-reach of TPTB into your pocket. There is no 'free market' and hasn't been for longer than anyone here has been alive...

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:36 | 2381405 rgbensonaz
rgbensonaz's picture

SCREW the I.R.S!

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:48 | 2381419 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

The Irrational Revenue Seekers? B-b-b-but you blaspheme! /sarc

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 21:54 | 2381601 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



Indomitable Ravenous Succubi

Intermittent Revenue Suckers

Inevitably Remitted Stash

I Really Steal


Fri, 04/27/2012 - 23:09 | 2381689 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Inane Rapacious Scum 

Illegitimate Ransom Squad


Sat, 04/28/2012 - 09:11 | 2382028 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

LMAO.. one person went through and voted down on all the IRS negative comments.. ohh how funny.. Have a fan do we??

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 00:07 | 2381740 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

The problem for the IRS and the government in general is that once the numbers are low enough, enforcement becomes a money-losing proposition and works against the interest of even the most tax-craven bureaucrat. I don't see how they can, with their customary efficiency and financial managment, prosecute anything below a half-million and still profit. Their best bet is straight intimidation which is low overhead and captures all the easy marks.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 06:07 | 2381913 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

IRS can kiss my ass.

Cash value for barter "FAIR MARKET VALUE" can't exist.

if it has a cash value there was no barter. The very NOTION of cash value is an evaluation of involved cash exchanges for something that's not cash. By definition barter breaks that.

The IRS isn't even legal as far as I'm concerned.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 10:18 | 2382119 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

labor swapping can be outside the rules

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 07:20 | 2381944 ZeroPoint
ZeroPoint's picture

It won't be so easy. How do you tax a man who trades a pair of work boots for 10 pounds of potatoes?


Sat, 04/28/2012 - 10:33 | 2382147 sethstorm
sethstorm's picture

The government would just tax both for the higher sum of the two as valued in taxable USD.  In this case, the commodity price for potatoes versus the replacement cost would be compared, and thus a figure given to tax. 

Do not underestimate the US government when it comes to doing the impossible.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:47 | 2381402 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Edit gone bad...

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 09:26 | 2382052 franzpick
franzpick's picture

And here is a recent example of the draconian, swift and vicious moves that any government will make when its people, suffering 18% inflation, attempt to dump the currency by pricing things in gold (houses for one):

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 17:50 | 2381223 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

Cash will be outlawed before long at this rate.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:45 | 2381328 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Rate has nothing to do with it. Outlawing cash (that is forcing debit card and CC use) will become the norm under a police state. In fact that would be one of the early signs. Call it the mark of Cain if you want.

People that comment here seem to think the government will be setting up FEMA camps in secrecy and then forcing everyone out of their homes in the middle of the night. No no my comrades! It will be nothing so obvious as that. First they'll damage our ability to function outside their control, in all the ways they can, including purchasing basic necessities. Then they'll cook up all sorts of "reasons" why cash is illegal, and why food is scarce, and why you cannot have a garden, and why the water in your town is unfit to drink. Taking away our ability to manage in the world. And through this they will slowly break our minds, or break enough of us. And the "broken" ones will then seek shelter from the "broken" world (which really isn't) and ask for camps to be created as a humanitarian act, where the food will be had and the water will be drinkable.

And the broken ones will go into the camps with a light heart, grateful, and singing hymns.

We all get the idea, right? Can't you see it? I sure can.

There are monsters. You need to know the nature of humans to see them. But there are monsters.


Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:52 | 2381351 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Absolutely. At each stage of the game, when the Nazis ran a false flag, The People demanded action. Hitler responded by taking away more freedoms. When they complained, he simply said "You asked me to fix it."

In the New Age of serfdom, you will ask for your chains.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:06 | 2381371 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

First they'd have to "kill" the internet... Otherwise there'd still be too many UN-SHEEPLE who wouldn't play along...

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:42 | 2381413 rgbensonaz
rgbensonaz's picture

They don't have to kill it...rather they will simply censor it.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 21:05 | 2381534 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Americans gave up liberty for a clicker and HD TV.   Each tim ethey turn on the TV they submit to their overlords and enpower them.  Serfs.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 21:06 | 2381536 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

they don't have censorhip in America.

They have trashorship.....they put out so many trash media  and advertisement out there that people end up watching stupid youtube movies instead of anythign significant that will impact their decision making.


No need to censor article on political corruption when dumbasses are busy watching sports or dacing with the stars. Focus is on the celebrities not the real man in power.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 23:20 | 2381703 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Yep. Just drop the signal to noise ratio below the level of most people's sensibility to it. They'll get lost and confused, and start adding more noise themselves.
The wisdom of the age of information lies in filtering it out to find the golden nuggets. But self-reinforcing communities do form around this goal (ZH as the obvious example here, although the same exists for many different interests) and this threatens the system, as truth tends to prevail. This is why I believe they'll be forced to censor as well.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: dialectics is the sharpening stone of the mind. 

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:56 | 2381425 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

They won't kill it. They'll just monitor any financial transaction online via Paypal, your bank, Amazon, Ebay, etc. and hit you with a tax and penalty if you don't file on it. They already do it via Paypal over certain amounts per year. Amazon too. They are not going to leave any stone unturned for your transactions. And see the barter link above. You think they are going to overlook your income via a 'free' site like Craigslist? You think you can sell at a farmer's market and use an iPhone for non-cash transactions(Paypal, SquareUp, etc.)? Not likely for long. Where there's a 'bill', there's a 'pay'. 

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 20:06 | 2381447 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Oof!   Amazon and Paypal ALREADY report our transactions to the tax collectors?   Got a link where we can go read about that?

I know some states want to enforce some sort of "Amazon tax" for example, and would need an enforcement mechanism.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 20:43 | 2381500 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture


If the States ever succeed in enforcing their tax rates on top of Federal rates AND Amazon and Paypal margins, online is going to get crushed in my opinion. 

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 20:16 | 2381459 css1971
css1971's picture

What if you simply couldn't find anything they didn't want you to find?

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 20:28 | 2381475 Decolat
Decolat's picture

Last I looked, the majority of the internet is already oriented towards the ignorant and complacent. The wise minority will be dealt with accordingly.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 21:29 | 2381570 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

the majority of "internet usage" is working as intended, it won't take but a few more whistles for the herd dogs to direct the traffic into more compliance. . .

those who don't want to play will begin to self-censor as the penalties for deviant behaviours get more advertising - this is how cultures are managed, they're "policed" from within by those who believe in their own righteousness, or privilege, or whatever naming one wants to apply.

this has been working for centuries now, "authority" tells the special ones how special they are, whole wars are fought on behalf of fictive "nationstates" that are invented and destroyed at will, yet the conned-testants feel that special "patriotic" inner glow, rinse, repeat, history. 

look at the TSA, police forces, military, etc. - uni-formed & armed, fed their special secrets (and pharma) to justify their power over. . . this is the same game played out forever. . .

as for barter, the more prescient have long standing, trusted networks already in place, while the rest still keep their pixel fiat in banks and use their plastic monitoring cards all over the place, completely un-concerned.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 07:57 | 2381968 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

those who don't want to play will begin to self-censor as the penalties for deviant behaviours get more advertising - this is how cultures are managed, they're "policed" from within by those who believe in their own righteousness, or privilege, or whatever naming one wants to apply.

US citizens strive for conformity and uniformity.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 12:57 | 2382348 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

those that identify with their tag will indeed carry on with their existences, tagged.

as I'm sure is true in China, not every human living in amrka claims their label, nor supports the overlords and their Agenda.

but the truth is, the overwhelming majority do, as is true with most humans who believe in national boundaries and "cultures."

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:55 | 2381428 css1971
css1971's picture

There are monsters. You need to know the nature of humans to see them. But there are monsters.

I have a theory that the monsters depicted in horror movies & stories represent the most pressing fears about the people in society. Vampires, werewolves, zombies and so on.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 20:08 | 2381445 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

"No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast." - William Shakespeare ~ Richard III

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 21:03 | 2381529 samsara
samsara's picture

Dead on Cougar. cannot have a garden....

Like this?

Rural kids, parents angry about Labor Dept. rule banning farm chores


Fri, 04/27/2012 - 21:45 | 2381585 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Good point; bad example.  The proposed Labor Dep't. rules, since withdrawn, would not have banned "farm chores."  Tucker Carlson, at Daily Caller, is taking advantage of the fact that most people don't know much about farm life anymore to muddy the waters to carry some political water.

Because of their past history as primarily family businesses, farms are exempted from child labor and overtime laws, and most safety rules.  When I was a kid on the farm, we did all kinds of things kids have no business doing.  A lot of us got killed or maimed, too.

The Labor Dep't. rules were clumsy and not very well-thought out.  They were trying to put some level of regulation on an area where common sense has not historically prevailed.  Plus a lot of kids are not working on "family" farms; they're working what should be adult jobs, for employers.  They're working for less than minimum wage, with no overtime or safety protection.  And they get killed at a staggering rate.  About four times the standard level of work-related death and injury.  So there's a less-than-malevolent intent here; less so that Tucker Carlson wants you to think.

There are other situations where THEY are trying to keep you from having a garden.  Many municipalities require homeowners to plant non-native grass in their front yard, using tons of chemicals and water to keep them alive.  At the same time, they ban native plants that grow by themselves, or vegetables, from yards except under very specific and limiting conditions.  There's your creeping totalitarianism for you.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 09:02 | 2382020 prole
prole's picture

There's  your fed right there

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 21:53 | 2381598 Milestones
Milestones's picture

I'm sorry but you have set up a senerio that that is making the government folks 10 feet tall and all the people as dwarfs. And all these cops etc are all brain surgeons. Most of them will jump ship ASAP if they see even 5-10 % of the population has had it. The macho ones will go down first.

The problem will be in getting the people to respond in the first place. Any show of resistance and the SHTF.      Milestones 

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 04:34 | 2381877 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

'Most of them will jump ship ASAP if they see even 5-10 % of the population has had it.' - and when in histiory has that ever happened?

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 08:24 | 2381991 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

The former british colony- America.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 19:51 | 2382843 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

America is very much still owend by Britain , is just nobody looks into the corporation 

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 22:13 | 2381630 mkkby
mkkby's picture

That's a pretty daft scenario.  You are the one who is evil to dream that up.

Here's what the fema camps are for.  Eventually the US will "go Greece", i.e. unable to borrow.  When the welfare checks can no longer be paid, 40 million inner city zombies start to starve and riot.  In order to feed and water millions of unproductive, worthless and violent humans you need camps.

The bankers don't want productive people sitting around in camps.  They want them working and paying their taxes and debt.  You really need to think logically once in a while.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 05:56 | 2381905 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

FEMA camp in this scenario is tax-camp. The tax is as close to 100% as possible. Take all "income" split into 2 portions: if you lose portion A you die, portion B you are very unhappy - unless you think you're unable to get it without causing the loss of portion A. You will therefore in the FEMA tax-camp keep portion A (food, shelter, heat) and give up portion B (all your productive work). This "camp" will require you work to "function", you will be assured, and of course non-compliance is terrorism subject to immediate execution.

Hey, the scenario can be varied in a number of ways but I'm just suggesting you consider that one and think about how plausible it is.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 03:18 | 2381841 unicorn
unicorn's picture

about the water subject in your post:

a film called water makes money. they desperately tried to stop the film...

how they poison the water with chlorinate, to avoid to maintain the supply system and meantime make it undrinkable.but there you see, people can stand up and fight. yes, we can.

and a friend of mine just came back from greece, where huge communities organize themselves with own money or no money at all, going back to a system, where the big ones have nothing more to say.

yes, we can. ;)

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 10:24 | 2382123 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

if they try to take my garden, I will fight to the death

good to see you Cougar


Fri, 04/27/2012 - 21:18 | 2381556 jumbo maverick
jumbo maverick's picture

They have to outlaw poker before they can outlaw cash. They will never be able to outlaw poker. If you play you understand.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 07:21 | 2381947 ZeroPoint
ZeroPoint's picture

I used to think that, but then how would the goverment make money from the drug trade?


Fri, 04/27/2012 - 17:53 | 2381229 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Helps explain why a paperback book by Ted Roselius (Black Market Operations) can't be found for under $60.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:10 | 2381278 CH1
CH1's picture

Guess it's time for someone to start selling it... on the black market. :)

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:27 | 2381311 Tenshin Headache
Tenshin Headache's picture

That plus it's been out of print for ages (used copies are from 1979)

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 09:46 | 2382078 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Yes, but PDF version can be found for free at:

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 17:54 | 2381231 urbanelf
urbanelf's picture

Does this mean all money will eventually exist on a central bank hard drive?

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:11 | 2381283 CH1
CH1's picture

Does this mean all money will eventually exist on a central bank hard drive?

That would make the central bankers very happy.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 20:59 | 2381523 samsara
samsara's picture

That would make me happy 

They can keep all the virtual 1s & 0s

We keep the food, and other real assets.

I will 'barter' with them,  A potato for a eagle or a leaf.


Fri, 04/27/2012 - 17:55 | 2381234 Scotch-n-Soda
Scotch-n-Soda's picture

We use the Barter System at my house.  My wife gives me nasty kinky sex, and I do whatever the fuck she wants for it.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:08 | 2381272 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

+1..  yup.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 01:49 | 2381810 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

government already taxed you via marriage license fees and any sales tax paid for your wedding.


also barter participants don't get to take you to court later and demand alimony and child support for years for the services rendered prior.


she got you good.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:11 | 2381281 Rainman
Rainman's picture

I feel ya, and they never want anything cheap like a new toaster

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:38 | 2381329 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

What's your address? I'd like to barter with your wife.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:02 | 2381366 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

My wife likes to talk to me during sex.

Last night she called me from the hotel.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:06 | 2381373 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

No respect, I tell ya!

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 19:02 | 2382798 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Who junks all the participants in a good running joke-a-rama??? Fucking feminist fuck-tards... either that or the guy's wife and her friends really are members of ZH and are stalking us jokesters...

I miss Rodney Dangerfield!!

"My wife, she gives good headache".

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 10:26 | 2382130 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

and I wouldn't complain but The Four Seasons? - shit 

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 10:37 | 2382153 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

-1 on my post.  I see the wife is now on Zero Hedge.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 20:00 | 2381435 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Finally a man here knows how it should work! :-)

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 20:27 | 2381473 Kayman
Kayman's picture

And how does she pay the neighbors ?

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 17:56 | 2381238 SILVERGEDDON

I'll trade lead for gold, no problem. Lead for silver, too. Lead for paper? Nope.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:05 | 2381263 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

Not even toilet paper?

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:29 | 2381314 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

When you've used up all your fiat to wipe your butt, and then you run out of toilet paper for the purpose, you can use a gold bar. Wash it off, good as new.

Of course you could also simply have used a stick. But then the joke loses something in the current context.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:41 | 2381335 Peterpaul
Peterpaul's picture

When it comes down to it, I'll trade for your gold with the iron price.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 17:59 | 2381246 Jason T
Jason T's picture

Hitler batered.. thinking on the lines of international trade when the monetary powers don't want to do business with you anymore.  Tis why the wars are fought.  

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 17:59 | 2381249 R_Soles
R_Soles's picture

I live in Toronto and we have a number of crooked cocksucking politicians that spend taxpayers money and don'yt give a shit so I stopped giving a total shit too. We exchange baby sitting, among other things, for oil changes, tire rotations, brake jobs and so on. Order stuff on the web to avoid provincial taxes and pay cash when that doesn't wotk. Of course none of this shows up in GDP calcs as nothing is recorded, thus GDP numbers in my view are as accurate as the gov't defined inflation numbers where they don'y count food or energy in this fuckin country and try and tell me it is 1 fucking percent!t

I stopped working full time because 50% of what I made was going to the cocksuckers in gov who LIE constantly and w/out shame. I am not palying their fucking game anymore. Good luck to all.

So....there's that

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:02 | 2381256 prains
prains's picture

trade you the oilers for the leafs....errr wait a minute on second thought how bout the flames

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:57 | 2381431 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Just FYI, Volts burst into flames not Leafs. We have a Leaf and solar,both subsidized by stupid f'ing government and couldn't happier. Yes it's a pathetic way for tax slaves to try and get some of our money back and I wouldn't be surprised if someone showed me the energy used to create those 2 items exceeded the savings of energy we will realize. Sorry but taking the subsidy was just too tempting.


Sat, 04/28/2012 - 12:01 | 2382282 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

Just wait until you have to replace the batteries the day after the warranty expires.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:03 | 2381261 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Isn't it the end of the NWO when a canuck declares his govt corrupt and resorts to barter?

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