This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Mike Krieger On The "Useful Idiots"
From Mike Krieger
Useful Idiots
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
- Mahatma Gandhi
There isn’t a cohesive message coming from the protestors other than the system is rigged in favor of the top .01%. Those who think they are in control are losing their grip. They see their power and wealth slipping away. They’ve had their way for decades and will not willingly submit to a change in the existing social order. Last night Jim Cramer voiced the concerns of the .01% by saying the Occupy Wall Street protests were worrisome. They are worrisome to the moneyed interests. They are a reason for hope to the 99.9%. We are approaching our moment of truth. There is something terribly wrong with this country. A new American Revolution has begun. It is time to stop being afraid and take this country back. What happens next? The choice is ours.
- Jim Quinn (Read this http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-what-country-needs-now-hope)
But the banking elites that led these frauds have been able to do so with impunity from prosecution. Take on federal agency, the Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS). During the S&L debacle, the OTS made well over 10,000 criminal referrals and made the removal of control frauds from the industry and their prosecution its top two priorities. The agency's support and the provision of 1000 FBI agents to investigate the cases led to the felony conviction of over 1,000 S&L frauds. The bulk of those convictions came from the "Top 100" list that OTS and the FBI created to prioritize the investigation of the worst failed S&Ls. In the ongoing crisis -- which caused losses 40 times larger than the S&L debacle, the OTS made zero criminal referrals, the FBI (as recently as FY 2007) assigned only 120 agents nationally to respond to the well over one million cases of mortgage fraud that occurred annually, and the OTS' non-effort produced no convictions of any S&L control frauds. OTS' sister agencies, the Fed and the OCC, have the same record of not even attempting to identify and prosecute the frauds. The FDIC was better, but still only a shadow of what it was in fighting fraud in the early 1990s. If control frauds can operate with impunity from criminal prosecutions, then the perverse Gresham's dynamic is maximized and market forces will increasingly drive honest banks and firms from the marketplace.
- Bill Black
The Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street are Two Sides of the Same Coin
I am extremely disappointed by the way most people are belittling the Occupy Wall Street protests, which I firmly believe is an extraordinarily important moment in American history that will be seen as the moment when rebellion arrived on the streets of America. Despite my frustrations regarding how pretty much every commentator out there is trying to spin it negatively, this simple fact convinces me without a shadow of a doubt that this is the real deal and we are merely in the second stage of transformative change that Gandhi describes in the quote at the top. We are in the ridicule phase. That is good since like anything else, a transformative rebellion manifests as part of a cyclical process just like anything else.
One thing that I think people are really missing is how similar Occupy Wall Street is to the early stages of Tea Party protests. Do you remember how the fake liberals dismissed that as a bunch of uneducated, racists wearing George Washington costumes? Many claimed it was “astro turf” and would die out. I recall the very day that I saw Rick Santellii on CNBC call for a new “tea party” in America. The moment that event got posted on youtube I sent it out to the entire trading floor at Bernstein saying it was the beginning of something big. People looked at me as if I was insane (as usual) and said that it was an irrelevant comment and nothing meaningful could come out of it. Fast forward a few years, here we are and not only did the Tea Party not peter out but it has become one of the most vibrant and influential political movements in America today. Those that dismissed the Tea Party most forcefully in the early days were from what I would call the “fake liberal” camp and the mainstream media (MSM). This is unsurprising because they simply did not understand it (the MSM aren’t paid to understand anything their job to help maintain the status quo and minimize and trivialize revolt). What the Tea Party represented was a rebellion within the Republican Party which had long ago sold itself out to the 0.1% financial elite class, the military industrial complex and large multi-national corporations that pay no taxes.
So now the Occupy Wall Street protests have begun and the EXACT same thing is happening. Yet this time most of the ridicule and contempt is spewing from what I would call “fake conservatives.” The MSM of course is playing their traditional role as is to be expected. Fortunately for me, I hold no attachment to any fake political party in America and I never have. I stand for a free and fair market system for the economy, for a fierce defense of Constitutional rights in all circumstances NO MATTER WHAT threat we supposedly face, and a cessation of the brutal violence and war we perpetrate abroad. As a result of this non-partisan stance I have an excellent group of friends and contacts across the entire ideological spectrum. From this standpoint, I think I can see things for what they really are and what I am here to say is that Occupy Wall Street represents in part a rebellion within the Democratic Party (ie, the other side of the tea party coin). This is why most of the attacks are coming from the “right” side of the fake political divide. Just like the fake liberals couldn’t understand the tea party, the fake right can’t understand Occupy Wall Street. This is alright. It is all part of the process. Next they will fight us. Just like Gandhi said.
Useful Idiots
Most of the time you hear the term “useful idiots” it is used in a totally pejorative sense. I think this is wrong. A “useful idiot” is actually not really an idiot, rather it is someone who is ignorant and therefore can be manipulated by those that are not ignorant to do as they desire. I mean who reading this was not a “useful idiot” at some point? I know I was. For most of my career on Wall Street that is exactly what I was. I worked in finance but had no idea how the system actually worked. As a result of my ignorance I was very susceptible to much of the propaganda that was blasted in my ear overtly and subliminally for much of my life. While I have always been cynical and never fell for the garbage either political party spewed, I was ignorant about how the world works and as such I could have been a danger to myself and others. Fortunately, I finally did dig further into the matrix, took the red pill and started writing about what I learned. Eventually I decided to leave Wall Street and pursue a different path.
Ok, so is there a point to all this rambling? Of course. The point is that just because there are a lot of “useful idiots” at the Occupy Wall Street protests (just as there were at the Tea Party Protests) that doesn’t mean we should dismiss what is happening or belittle their frustrations. They are merely ships without anchors floating around aimlessly in a sea of ignorance. Rather that mock them right into the hands of bad guys that want to recreate feudalism like Michael Moore, George Soros and Warren Buffett we should educate them.
Michael Moore and Other Carpetbaggers
Let me be clear about one thing. There are plenty of disconcerting things that have emerged in the Occupy Wall Street Protests. The main threat is the clear attempt of disingenuous elites to co-opt the movement and steer the “useful idiots” right into the concentration camps. You think George Soros is an idiot? You don’t think he knows exactly what he is doing when he voices his support? He is trying to co-opt it and own it. He didn’t start anything. He is a carpetbagger of the highest order.
One of the more disturbing things I have seen is this video of Michael Moore at the protests. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l97SuV6DThQ&feature=player_embedded After watching it I was so disturbed I sent the following out to my smaller email list:
It’s great to watch all these guys that never understood the real issues and clearly still don’t attempt to co-opt the message of the Occupy Wall Street Protests for their own agendas. For those of us that have been fighting this in the trenches for years, this is the greatest risk to the movement. That some radical self-serving interests take the message over. I don’t think it will succeed but that is what has happened in history and we must be vigilant. Watch this quick video of this dangerous man, Michael Moore. When asked about ending the Federal Reserve there is a really awkward moment and then he blurts out “END CAPITALISM.” End Capitalism Michael? Where is there capitalism. How about end crony capitalism?
My conclusion on this spectacle is the following. Either 1) He STILL hasn’t bothered to understand how things work and is just looking to be some sort of revolution rock star to stroke his own ego and childish solutions or 2) He is a crony capitalist himself and after having made millions via “capitalism” has decided like Warren Buffett, Soros and all the others he is content to shut down the opportunity to make money for others. End capitalism? Hmmmm, yep and go the planned neo-feudalism in which he is well positioned.
Whether it is 1 or 2 doesn’t matter. It is one of them and that makes him someone not to be trusted and with zero credibility in the movement and one that cannot offer real solutions. WATCH this video. This man is dangerous and must be exposed and discredited.
The key point I am trying to make here is whenever someone worth tens of millions of dollars pushes a agenda based on “end capitalism” turn and run the other way. Run as far and as fast as you can. Remember what feudalism really is. Is was a system designed by the last guys to rape and pillage who then decided to shut down the random raping and pillaging once they had secured their castles. Michael Moore, George Soros, Warren Buffett and all the others have their castles and they don’t give a crap about you. Furthermore, did you see what Tiny Timmy Geithner just said? From Bloomberg: *GEITHNER: `YOU SHOULD BE DEMANDING BETTER RESULTS' FROM GOV'T. Don’t make me laugh. Here is the biggest insider crook on earth trying to tell us what we should want. Truly a disgusting character.
So…next time you see someone marching with an “end capitalism sign” stop that person and educate them. Explain to them why there is no capitalism, only crony capitalism and explain the financial system to them. That way we can drop the idiot part of the term and they can just become useful.
Some Good Signs
The moment I knew the Occupy Wall Street protests were the real deal was when I saw the large group around Union Square (two blocks from where I used to live) with many, many “End the Fed” signs. I don’t know much but I know Manhattan and I have never seen signs like that on the street there. So in conclusion please watch this video from a OWS protestor. People get it. This is real. Nice work kid. Enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFz1VVXsWRU&feature=player_embedded
Peace and Wisdom,
Mike
»
- 26337 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Why anyone lets Soros walk around the planet like cancer is beyond me. Why??
Simple, it's all perfectly legal.
You want to get an idea why? Go view a comparative example that's totally relevant today. Shit, the parallels are mirror like. Ken Burns "Prohibition" is airing now on PBS and explains the layering of power and manipulation attached to passage of the 18th ammendment prohibiting the distribution of alcohol. What you'll find is many of the power plays were carried by the very people who were not concerned with the social ramifications releated to alcohol consumption but instead, the players simply wanted to either lever up politically, control financial outcomes, create alternatives or as did happen, manipulate Americans into supporting entry into WWI.
He is looking for another economic system--a way out. He also funds alternative economic research. He knows very well that the system that allowed him to become one of the wealthiest men is doomed---Kondratiev reached wrong conclusion.
i know someone who went down there, and trust me, she's not being funded by fuckin Soros.
No, she's one of the braindead idiots that don't even know who is using them.
That would be over 95% of the "protesters". It's always the same in every "revolution".
You see the thing about what America was was that both "the Rich" and "the Poor" were transient in their memberships. Its not the same people over time occupying those classes. That is the beauty of capitalism and the motive for Soros, Buffet , and the likes of the Kennedys to destroy capitalism,, then they will remain the rich elite. Just as the is in Socialist countries.
IC and how many poor Rockerfellers are there? Or Kennedy's? Foresee many poor Soros? or Gates? What time frame are you thinking of - millenia?
Instead of being an idiot and a socialist tool why don't you look up the statistics. Clearly 50% of you own examples gained their wealth this generation. !
I know you won't let the facts get in your way!
The U.S. Treasury released a study in November 2007 that examined income mobility in the U.S. from 1996 to 2005. Using data from individual tax returns, the study documented the movement of households along the distribution of real income over the 10-year period. As shown in Figure 1A, the study found that nearly 58 percent of the households that were in the lowest income quintile (the lowest 20 percent) in 1996 moved to a higher income quintile by 2005. Similarly, nearly 50 percent of the households in the second-lowest quintile in 1996 moved to a higher income quintile by 2005. Even a significant number of households in the third- and fourth-lowest income quintiles in 1996 moved to a higher quintile in 2005.
The Treasury study also documented falls in household income between 1996 and 2005. This is most interesting when considering the richest households. As shown in Figure 1B, more than 57 percent of the richest 1 percent of households in 1996 fell out of that category by 2005. Similarly, more than 45 percent of the households that ranked in the top 5 percent of income in 1996 fell out of that category by 2005.
Thus it is clear that over time, a significant number of households move to higher positions along the income distribution, and a significant number move to lower positions along the income distribution. Common reference to “classes” of people (e.g., the lowest 20 percent or the richest 10 percent) is quite misleading because income classes do not contain the same households and people over time.
No, I am funding it. I sent them some money and food. So did my brother and sister and kids.
To do the same , go to
http://nycga.cc/donate/They have a total of 46,000. I don't think Soros was needed to get there.
I've always said, these protests are all about the funding. Lulz.
I guess you've always been a doucebag.
Lets just all keep on labeling and dividing ourselves without any regard as to who the real enemy is, and maybe one day when someone charismatic enough can unite us, we will all look passed our differences, and collectively push for one common goal.
It will be wonderful until we all gradually forget why we united in the first place and the wolves will once again divide our flocks and feast on our brethren. Rinse, wash, repeat. I'm tired of this shit.
I swear to christ the only thing keeping me from fucking hanging myself is the knowledge i would just be reincarnated into the same pointless life cycle. There is no individual escape from this nightmare, we all need to start seeing things from the other perspective and realize we all want the same thing.
I don't even have the energy to make a strong point anymore. Hopefully someone out there gets what i'm trying to say.
LOL yea I agree. I keep seeing that monk on fire in my head....WTF at least he made a real statement and hopefully didnt get reincarnated into a banker or something.
Since the markets look to be on standby mode till the big NFP event tonight, i'll chime in right here with some sloppy philosophy.
It all boils down to the question of whether there is a better world beyond this one. Well you can think of this life as some kind of probationary period where you're given a chance to prove yourself; a rite of passage, so to speak. And if you flung it? You're welcome to come back and try again. We're open 24/7/365/#DIV0.
But what if all those selfish assholes were right, and that you only live once, so there won't be all those nasty consequences later on? What if religions were, indeed, nothing more than mere mental control devices?
Unfortunately, those who can provide us with definitive answers are dead (obviously). So it's good to think about but don't get obsessed over it. The answer will come to everyone one day. The only downside to be wrong on religion is, you'll be fondly remembered by those you helped. So it's a sure-win trade don't you think?
Pardon my poor attempt at injecting humour into a solemn topic, but i do hate to see well-mannered people so disheartened.
The media TELLS us 'These Wall St protestors are uninformed useful idiots', but Ive seen plenty of them making speeches and are very knowledgable and focused like a laser on whats going on and what they seek to accomplish.
So dont fall into the media trap which is trying to make everything think that everyone there protesting on Wall St are empty brained useful idiots. Propaganda.
Thank you sheepdog.
I've also seen video of a guy yelling for "jews, go back to Israel".
I'll let you decide for yourself if he's a useful idiot.
If the Jews went back to Israel, most all of our govt and Wall St would be gone...so its an intriguing point he's made.
Funny, but most Jews din't come from Israel.
Yea well most of the 'jews' arent 'jews' at all either, they just call themselves that. Makes a great shield, then whenever your caught doing crimes you can say its 'anti-semitic' and 'remember the holocaust' so they can get away with anything. Wall St and DC politicians are 'true Jews' who strictly obey the Torah? I guess when theyre not molesting children, hookers, and snorting coke all nite and robbing everyone blind...yea sure.
"if you got hate in yer heart let it out white power!" D. Chapelle
good....good....let the hate simmer....let it build and take over...excellent padwan sheep....let it grow and consume you....hate is good...repeat after me...hate is good...
now focus not only on the jews but the mic's, spic's, spooks, gooks etc. etc......let it fester baby....lol
Has nothing to do with hate orangedrink... It has to do with recognition. Observation is the only form of truth we have.. When we use observation to feed our critical thinking, often times we are considered hateful by those that do not want us to believe our lying eyes..
I was watching something with my girlfriend last night.. One girl said to a guy that she wouldn't go out with him because he's not Jewish and then snickered.. I turned to her and said that was racist.. but we just don't' see it that way.. you wanna know why I said; because we have be conditioned to accept them as the eternal victim.. They are smart, i'll give em that.. But not all of us are fooled..
There's nothing racist about wanting to date within your own ethnic or religious group.
Throughout history, the power elite have played the useful idiots time after time.
Everytime TSHTF and the mobs rise up, the power elite have been able to avoid their own destruction most of the time by providing the "useful idiots" with someone else to take the blame.
When the real enemy is to powerful to destroy, the sheeple will be happy to find a substitute enemy with whom to vent their anger and rage.
Be careful what you wish for. You certainly have got no clue. From someone who praises Steve Jobs, your comment is certainly stupid to say the least.
I wonder who theyll try to blame this time? Their problem is people are pretty knowledgable about things today due to the internet, not at all like it was 200 years ago or even 20 years ago. Pandoras box cant stuff that bitch back in once its out.
About a month ago Zerohedge had an article discussing how the elites old 'problem reaction solution' is now out the window, too many people are too informed.
Even if they are informed, and they know who the REAL enemy is, they will settle for something else.
Mass scale Cognitive Dissonance.
Things will not get better. One way or another there will be war. Be it between countries, or civil wars in most if not all countries.
There is a struggle for power. We know about the economical powers and their political puppets. The other major player in the powerstruggle is the same old. And so far, it has eluded the spotlight: the Vatican.
Oh, you are too optimistic. What percentage of the population reads ZH or something like it? What percentage watches American Idol or something like it and gets excited about the outcome of either? Probably 100:1 in favor of the lattter.
You're right, but remember a useful idiot isn't related to that persons level of intellegence. Instead it relates to someone being guided to promote something on belhalf of anothers cause. It's being "Co-Opted" to satisfy anothers agenda. For example, you can be a "Useful Idiot" if you work for a company that sells a crappy product, but because you depend on the pay check to feed your family, you'll tell all your customers it's the best product ever. Even when in your heart you know it's crap and the competition is proven to offer better. You'll choose (based on the desire to be socially accepted) to buy-in to the propaganda and therefore, you'll convince yourself accordingly that you're doing the right thing.
The Koch Bros feed the frack-nots who are their useful idiots talking down using domestic natty gas....meanwhile they get to arbitrage the artificially depressed resourse price selling to the R-O-W $10 ex-US price. $6 buck spread, natty gas sucks, don't drill for it.....When they own enough resources at the repressed value and the jig is up, all environmental issues will be solved and it will become close to mother's milk.
"Ive seen plenty of them making speeches and are very knowledgable and focused"
Yeah! and without a Teleprompter !!!
You don't need to be very knowledgeable or focused to determine that the ruling class is screwing the average - just a little bit awake. God bless the protesters!
I think the people that are actually still playing the rigged paper game here at ZH know exactly where the strings are, or at least have a strong idea.
Most of the people here have already withdrawn from this farce of an economy and have decided to take their wealth off the table ( in whatever form they feel the safest with atm be it FRN's ( however briefly ) or PM's etc etc ).
The fact is on one level or another you HAVE to pick what part of the game youre going to play and play it. There is no choice.
Re: The Bill Black comment;
As a process of rent seeking, there are limits on how much the financial community can extract from the larger economy and not kill the golden goose. So it behooves those at the very top of the structure to limit access. By allowing the cleaning out of the lower level rentiers in the savings and loan industry, the upper levels in regular banking were preserving their monopoly. The problem now is that this safety valve doesn't exist and if there were prosecutions of those in the banking and financial sector, it would be difficult to ringfence the upper levels from their soldiers, who know where the bodies are buried. So now it becomes a choice of allowing some creative destruction in the banking sector, or killing that Golden goose. It will be quite interesting to watch the wars break out to decide who survives and who is sacrificed.
Thats just what we have now, the pirate ship can no longer be sustained, theyve pillaged every smaller craft to the point there are none left, no pirate is going to volunteer himself to walk the plank to help the others out, so soon theyll start cutting each others throats. Should make for interesting viewing.
The Money Center Banks are like lawn grubs. A healthy lawn will support 2 or 3 grubs per square foot. If you get an infestation with larger numbers, like 10 or 12 per square foot, they will kill off the host lawn. Our financial system is infested with Money Center Banks that are destroying it.
Very interesting POV of the S&L crisis. I have never thought of it like that.
Much appreciated.
pods
The goose will be weakened until the oppressor is terminated.
Maybe it's an even bigger game, shifting all the shit possible onto government.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/how-financial-oligarchy-replaces-democracy
This guy paid by Soros, too?
These parasites are the same side of the coin as Obama.
They can't speak in entire sentences, either.
Have any of you ever been to Burning Man? Despite all the knee-jerk reactions many will no doubt have at the mere mention, there is something very important that happens there every year: 50,000 people live without money, government, or rules (except for 'don't be a dick') for 2 - 6 weeks.
After experiencing this just one time, it makes you realize that most 'systems' we have in the 'real world' are nothing but bullshit. There are alternate ways to have a society function. Seeing it, experiencing it, makes you really believe in these alternate ways, and make you want to destroy the legacy institutions that currently exist.
For every person that actually goes to Burning Man, they have a whole group of friends who couldn't make it for whatever reason, but are still in the same mindset. There are probably over a million people who have first or second hand knowedge about this experience, and they all have internet access.
Just sayin. It's a new world. And it doesn't fit in the old box anymore.
is there free pussy there, tho?
Not for fucktard wankers like you Trav.
Thanks for letting everyone see you are a sad fuck who can't get any without paying for it.
LOL. Hell, yeah there is.
Hippie, organic loving, world peace hippy pussy is free and easily available.
The best pussy is rainbow people, followed by the act up and PETA in my opinion, although food not bombs is coming on strong. You go dumpster diving with those girls and cook a meal for the homeless undwr a bridge you will get laid. I love food not bombs girls best of all.
Join some of those groups. The pussy is free and oh so young, even a middle aged white guy can score.
It helps to be slightly sincere. I would rather cook a meal for homeless crackheads then send one more bomb to afghanistan. I am serious. You will get a lot of hippie pussy. It is damn good too. Exuberant and impulsive and wild!
Besides. I love a good protest. They have often let me be in the vanguard. I have never once had a charge of disorderly conduct stick. I never resist arrest. I bail them out when necessary. Posting a bond is cheap and earns you brownie points and adoring eyes.
PleasAir. Kaptin Knonstruct.
I won't be a dick, if you won't be a pussy.
Too late for you
Live and let live, but if I'm not mistaken the Burning Man group works at jobs the rest of the year in order to buy supplies to bring to the fiesta...and then they return to said jobs. Temporary barter is not impressive.
I lived on a commune for 3 months way back in HS as an Open Study project. You want to realize what a system of bullshit 'communism' is? Try living that lifestyle for real, man. After HS, I joined the USAF and became a Crew Chief on a B-52. ha ha ha...Rolling Thunder, I guess subconsciously I had turned my back on communism.
what a rack of shit article. Like the only alternative to capitalism is feudalism. What anti-intellectual hogwash. Get a brain krieger.
Yea Krieger stop sending us the results of your 3 martini lunch napkin scribblings...its pure crap.
Capitalism? Are you describing our current system as capitalism. I am tired of hearing the blue pill attack on the ills of capitalism when it hasn’t existed in this country for 100 years. The alternative to our current socialism is more socialism, I can hardly wait.
Here is the biggest insider crook on earth trying to tell us what we should want. Truly a disgusting character.
WITHOUT A DOUBT....TRULY THE ANTI-CHRIST..
Ok , let us accept that Michael Moore, Susan Sarandon, Stiglitz and so on... are Carpetbaggers.
If so, is there any, reasonable, explanation why they are so warmly welcome among the protesters?
We can see, and I like it, protestors firmly standing against the police but have you seen them trying to firmly avoid the "carpet-baggering?
If they are doing it and I didn´t see it I´m truly eager to change my actual view of this movement because as I have already wrote, at the beggining I was hoped about it
Cause the protesters are actually, giving everyone a voice. Moveon.org is not allowed to take over the protest, but the whole point of the protest is that it is inclusive. All points of view are welcome and respected. Those area that can get consensus are pursued. Which is why the big message is 'end the fed', not 'lets teach only creationism' or 'republicans suck'.
It's a post-party movement.
Are you sure that a former Clinton economic advisor and former World Bank chief economist really wants to end the FED
What about END BIG BROTHER?
Thanks for your answer, but allow me to say that "consensus" is usually not driven by "common sense"
Just joking...or not
Here's a menage a trois featuring Ron Paul and Nalph Nader with Kucinich sharing some foreplay:
http://www.opednews.com/populum/linkframe.php?linkid=138999
We are the 99% is ok, but really cloudy. Their war cry should be simple and to the point. I think it should simply be "Separation of Business and State" simple, memorable. Makes sense to everyone, and I believe it's what they want. We Want "Separation of Business and State!"
Exactly. The (original) Constitution clearly establishes a goverment that has no more authority to interfere in economic matters than it has to interfere in religious matters.
We all know that billions of people need to necesarily go away. This group is close...only days on end without a formal list of demands pushes them closer to the front of the line. They are victims of the wrong education, stimulated by the lack of work experience, responsibility, and risk. There is the former or the latter; you carry the water or you don't. You either grow up to produce more than you consume, or you do not. Don't feed me shades of gray or colors. You may retire and continue your existence if you have saved enough money. Educators receive a % of every person that makes it. Doctors receive a % for every person that stays healthy, and on and on. Simple, really.
In some European countries, doctors make more for each person that is healthy. Not in the US. In US, they make X whether person is healthy or not (some HMO) minus Y if they actually treat them. So it is better for them to just pretend they are healthy. Or they make >x if they actually treat them whether they are sick or not (some insurance Medicaid). Educators get paid X regardless of outcome. X+ if they get advanced degrees or more seniority regardless of effect on outcome. Outside of ruling class, people who can retire are government employees (many) and successful self empoyed (few) or those who grew old under earlier less exploitive ruling classes.
Your pretty funny. So your are against the education unions?
I dunno, both is kinda stupid and inefficient - and the "shade of grey" inbetween is called a balanced budget...... so, you may not want to act with a balanced budget, but i prefer it... for...... some "reason".
I guess you are among those who also think that "the more one works, the better one is" (which is to say, the higher expenses one has, the better, regardless of the profits..... or alternatively, the more one produces, the better, regardless of demand and sustainability)... am i guessing right?
For the past few years, media figures and pundits have been hinting of the potential for unrest in the US. Lately, they have cheering the protests around the world, suggesting there ought to or will be rioting in the US, and generally glamorizing mob behavior. Left wing radicals have been warning of riots and unrest every summer for the past few years. This has been carefully cultivated over time. Working people with hope for the future don't protest. Prosperity is intentionally being destroyed in order to make people desperate. It seems to me that this will lead to mob violence and police brutality. There are many stakeholders who would benefit from such an outcome.
Generally rational, but:
Well, no. TPz were accused of being "Astroturf;" here we have the Real (fake) thing going on.
[Ed. More than 300 TP "events" with zero arrests. TP folks needed to pull permits for their events, no permits needed for #OWS. TP events left the place cleaner than when they left; jury is still out but ... . Boston Mayor Menino is putting in "potapotties" and providing electricity at city expense. Reports on Wall Street and Boston are that there are no "protests" going on until the crack of noon. -- otherwise, EXACTLY the same.]
Good commentary on "useful idiots", most especially because the #OWS++ crowds haven't any coherent messages vs. TPz who clung to their "Founding Documents" and could generally state a coherent explanation as to why they are around and what they believe.
One could agree, presumably after all of that college education at those prices there might be someone who could understand. But apparently, no mocking is needed, they are in the hands of the interests along your lines. And the usual suspects now (unsurprisingly) are revealing themselves.
I never could understand the initial message of "anarchists" demanding more government handouts, nor high school graduates who couldn't do the math of "student loans" that can not be discharged in BK.
I've heard several times to day that Steve Jobs dropped out of college because he a) didn't know what he'd want to be doing but b) he didn't want to waste his folks' lifetime savings.
- Ned
You have some VERY well informed and knowledgable people participating - as well as the off message freakshow types that the media has focused on. But the former are getting more coverage lately.
Yesterday you had many people who were working ON Wall Street joining the protests AGAINST Wall Street. The uninformed will be thinking this is nuts but it's not. If you've worked on Wall Street you KNOW the mindwset and mentality. I've SEEN clerks screwdd out of $2000 bonuses so EVP's can keep their multi-million dollar ones. I've SEEN the minsdset where they package crap ans sell it to 'some schmuck' laughing about the fool while buying CDS's betting that the same security they just sold - rateed AAA - will default. A good friend in Securities Law says 'All I do is make rich people richer, people who can't spend it as fast as they make it." He bemoans the fact that 'NOBODY has gone to jail - I don't understand it....' Of course he fails to see his own complicity.....the deals he structures are carefully constructed to make sure they avoid legal liability.
I was skeptical a week ago - I was at Zucotti Park on Friday. Good intentions but too many diverse and unfocused messages. But it's gelling. This has served as a catalyst to focus the deserved outrage that the '99%' have for the '1%'. The 1% get richer at the expense of the 99% - When someone says they won't feel 'secure' until they have $1 billion in the bank - the wealthy are totally out of touch (real comment from one with hundreds of millions).
The 99% want ACCOUNTABILITY and Equal treatment under the law. If conservatives demand personal accountability from a poor person on welfare why shouldn't we demand it from an executive who collected hundreds of millions in pay and bonuses while his comapny LOST billions?
Capitalism means risk and reward. If you take a risk and it works out well, you're rewarded. If you LOSE money why are you asking for taxpayer bail outs? You can't keep profits (espedcially if fraudulently opbtained) while dumping off losses on governemnt (the taxpayer). If you or I - anyone int he 99% go bankrupt nobody bails us out. If we break the law, commit fraud, steal, we go to jail.
If someone protesting this hypocritical difference in treatment steps off the sidewalk they get arrested - while a guy like Mozilla pays $50 million in fines and KEEPS $500 million - when he KNEW what his company was doing was wrong ands put it down in writing?!?!?
Many of those marrching may not have the facts at hand but they damn well know what's happened is wrong. A hell of a lot of those close to and even in the '1%' know it too.
Hey numbnutz if the government wasn't involved as it shouldnt be in capatalism, then there would be no bail out. You take a socialistic event i.e. government bailouts, and say look at how unfair capatilism is. I always knew that a person had to be unable to reason to be a socialist, thanks for the proof.
Sorry, but these aren't the same as the Tea party, not even f***ing CLOSE, numb nutz. The Tea Party are middle aged professionals with jobs and families. These are your beatnik white college aged crowd who are being orchestrated by the AFL-CIO (not speculation, it's proven at this point) who are wanting to be given forgiveness for ALL debt, FREE education etc etc etc. Tell me HOW IN THE F*** that is the same as the Tea PArty who wants gov;t to get the F*** OUT OF THE ECONOMY, OUT OF OUR LIVES, and let people do their own thing. The Tea Party doesn't WANTto be GIEVN ANYTHING DUMB F*** !! It's not even f***ing close. I'm FINE with TRYING to educate these people but they are brainwashed dumb asses. I AGREE with them that Walll Sreet and central banks are a gargantuan chunk of what's wrong with this country. The TEA PARTY thought so FIRST, but unlike these dumb asses, the Tea PArty KNOWS THIS. These beatniks don't even know why in the fuck they are there !! "I'm here for gay marriage, I'm here for global frauding, I'm here for legalizing pot". great. WTF does that have to do with Wall Street ?!?!
Know what this is? Wall Street donated more to Obamugabe than other other candidate in US history. So now we have this movement that was clearly organized in advance with orchestration with the AFL-CIO, etc. I'm sure they planned this for weeks. Instead of having Obamugabe take the fall for his failed economic policies, he pays some of his useful college idiots who won't ever have a job but will have decades worth of student loan debt to come out and protest the evil Wall Street guys. It';s a perfect diversionary tactic. Then, when the media coddles and aids these fools along while ignoring their trulty deplorable behavior (show me the last time HUNDREDS of Tea Party protestors were arrested, shit head), he once again looks like the "community organizer" that he is.
I mean seriously, this is TYPICAL COMMUNITY ORGANIZING in all its glory. This WAS PLANNED MONTHS AGO WITH WALL STREET!
For what purpose? Whats the end game? The media is largely blowing it off and downplaying it, so whats the big 'op' here with setting up these protests?
In order for it to blow up into violence, so that then they can bring it all down once and for all on us? Other than that being planned, I see no other real purpose.
The media will be on board once the violence starts. It is good for ratings. They are like the hyenas at the lions kill. Sheep dogs ought to be familiar with such things.
be careful what you are programmed to program, here, H.china_ski
you act as if non-violence were against the 'law', or something, dude
what is there to get violent about re: #OWS?
"in the streets" and "violent mobs" do not hafta have anything in common
violence is not called for in this, or do you know better?
Re-electing Obama. See my earlier response. I gave details of his strategy.
For what purpose? it gives Obamugabe his boogey man that almost everyone hates. it gives him a chance to be the Community Organizer in Chief and let people forget his shit economic plans that add hundreds of billions of dollars of debt to our bottom lines in THREE DAYS !! It's all diversionary and let's the Annointed to step into the only role he really understands. COmmunity Agitation! He has a target to attack. That's all he's built for! He can't lead! All he knows is how to attack and destroy. is it any wonder things have hit the crapper so fast?
For the record, I HATED Bush's policies. I was against Iraq primarily for financial reasons, I was ALWAYS opposedto his spending way back when he passed the Farm Bill in the first few years of his first term! I'm not a partisan hack. I stand on principle no matter who's in office.
Hmmmm, that's the most convuluted, bat-shit craziest thing I've ever heard. You could get a whiplash trying to wrap your head around that theory.
Krieger, you're clueless.
Occupy Wall Street is benign right now, but it is jest getting started. The people financing this little venture are the really big, really evil radical Leftists like George Soros. He has made billions by shorting entire economies and then fomenting and financing their collapse via community organizers (mob incitement) just like Occupy Wall Street. It's the ultimate insider trading scheme. Hey, didn't Soros just get busted for Insider Trading? ...nevermind.
If you'll notice, the Unions and "Organizing for America" have jumped in with the "stoned hippies with art degrees and massive student loan debt", so they have really nasty elements have been added to the pot. We have seen over 800 arrests so far. I think we will see fires and rioting in more than one major US city within 60 days. Check out this SEIU organizer and his plans for Wall Street...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnakdRdh7Es
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKqHL8eJZO8
The problem here is that no one knows how and where they want to land this bird before we clip it's wings. Globally, there are too many people that depend on the system, despite its corruption, to simply collapse it and see what happens, you moron! This type of Revolution is a tool of the worst Evil there is, it has been tried over and over and it always ends in massive bloodshed.
Look, go read the truth about the French Revolution, where dissidents were executed simply to lower the unemployment rate, and Napoleon took power before it was all over.
The only time that a revolution as been good for the average Joe was the American Revolution. Instead of hotheaded radicals at the helm shouting "down with the system!". Our Founders educated themselves and penned an unprecedented means of governance that kept the power in the hands of the people, and out of the hands of the dirt-bag politicians and the bankers They did 10 years worth of work, BEFORE they took up arms. Hello!!!?
Never run from something that is broken, run to something better. This is cursing the building you live in, and so you decide to have a demolition team implode it with everyone still inside.
The only people that benefit from a collapse are the very .01% Uber-Rich that these imbeciles claim to be so angry with. They're actually HELPING the dirt-bag bankers!!! They are ignorant "Useful Idiots", they got that name for a reason, learn you history Krieger!!!
SD-1: I've been wondering that same thing, e.g.:
One purpose that is becoming clear: "Road Trip!"
Other than that, we'll see. Heard Soros has admitted to "sympathy" and apparently has ponied up $5MM (I'll dig up a second source).
End game? Check with the NC Governor's recent "joke" as a starter.
- Ned
Should we be expecting Connie Francis?
Hmm, just letting someone know you are pissed off about having zero opportunities other than maybe working part time at a fast food restaraunt?
but, maybe Batman, they could have a secret life of fulfilling their societal responsibilities while not suckling on the mammaries of the "productive" "Middle Class" (OK, after suckling on their parents for 18+ years) who actually pay the actual taxes that actually pay for 2/3 of the current budget.
Don't cha' know.
Pissed off??? since when is that an unusual situation in life?? ????
Like, duuuude, someone owes someone else a fuck'n living for evah?
- Ned
"Wall Street donated more to Obamugabe than other other candidate in US history"
Is that adjusted for hyperinflation?
To perpetuate their blood-sucking system, what they need is more and more debt serfs everyday. If you're not in debt, then you're not useful.
They need more debt serfs, while killing the economy totaly. Where are they going to work?
They will have billions more "userful" ones in BRIC.
I was fooled too.
I saw that organized labor was involved, a communist manifesto from Van Jones, and just about wrote them off.
Fortunately I realized that no one speaks for the group. they are not all greenie hippie socialists, and many are open minded and looking for education and solutions.
An open mindedness and willingness to debate in good faith and form consensus when possible is what may give america a second century.
Our founding fathers were right in their abhorrence of political parties. We need to get rid of the labels we use to identify ourslves and others and engage in productive debate without trying to form wedge issues or score points.
Long live the protests.
Alex Jones belongs to Genesis Corp, a subsidiary of ABC.
the thing that bothers me is all of the guy fawkes masks.. i get it, i saw the movie.. but i also know the history, and it was a jesuit plot to crush the reformation in england.. if you look at the true history of revolutions, you see the jesuits always on both sides of conflict, working the hegelian dialectic. yes, useful idiots.. but for whom.. and for what goals..
it seems like the crowd would be satisfied if all 99% got uniforms..
if you look at a revolution only from the side of the oppressors, you miss the point. one always has to mindful of the dialectic..
I think if you replace Jesuit with Illuminati (Rothschild, Rockefeller etc) you would be more correct. You should know that given you have Horus as your avatar.
Also I wonder what will be the final Synthesis of our current situation. Global Scientific Dictatorship is the plan right? No thanks, make mine freedom.
the jesuits created the 'illuminati' or 'illuminated freemasonry' as a protestant front for the counter-reformation.. if you want to watch a really good lecture on the topic, check this out (and the one before it in the series):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKn8U1XwTxI
That isn't correct, sorry no offense. Top of the pyramid are the heads of the illuminati ruling families. They have infiltrated the catholic church partly using the Jesuits. Of course the heads of those ruling families deserve the blame for the hell on earth this world is about to become.
well, it is all a continuation of babylon, from when nimrod and samiramus first declared themselves gods.. the vatican is a continuation of that priesthood.. but it is all the same dream, the whole world under one rule.. but the pope is currently the one who holds the title, 'god on earth': for more, see this clip through part 10; from nimrod and babylon through the establishment of the mystery schools.. of which the 'illuminati' are the direct descendants..
"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth."
Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, "Cities Petrus Bertanous".
"The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God. and the vicar of God."
Ferraris Ecclesiastical dictionary
"The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth...by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth."
Quoted in the New York Catechism.
"All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope."
On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17
"...the Pope is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power." Lucius Ferraris, in "Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica",
Volume V, article on "Papa, Article II", titled "Concerning the extent of Papal dignity, authority, or dominion and infallibility", #1, 5, 13-15, 18, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition.
oops, here is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbIxish9vqM&feature=related
Again this isn't entirely correct, sorry.
But how does Neil Armstrong factor into all this?
Don't bother trying to dissect the historical event. The mask has been recontexualized at this point (it is a meme) to refer to the movie and the principle of anonymity that Anonymous promotes. Which is that if the source of an argument is unknown, then you have to actually address the issue instead of automagically condemning the source, their motives, their family history, race, religion, etc, etc. Our brains categorize people and assign them into little boxes based on our own experience whether we like it or not. Wearing the mask or communicating anonymously helps prevent that process. All of us at ZH should know that - we are all anonymouse here, too, for the same reason.
the meme refers to the movie.. and the movie refers to an idea, that the masses below are empowered, and do not have to submit to the corrupt at the top.
but the point is this, if you imagine the sequel to V, what kind of society would they have? go back to a bill of rights type of situation??? and what kind of society is the anonymous movement geared to achieve? free market capitalism? more freedom???
no, this is just more of the same forced choices, it is more of the same dialectic framework, left or right, thesis or antithesis, chose. but it is a false choice. this goes to the spirit of the article.
i hate the corruption. i hate the polarization of society. but i also hate collectivism, which is where this is heading.. or so i fear.
The purpose of the mask is to eliminate accountability for when the sheep (useful idiots) get slaughtered in the counter revolution. And the faux elite revolutionaries come forward to pick up a share of the spoils of chaos. Except chaos never works out the way the revolutionaries want. 1st Law of Thermodynamics and closed loop system principles apply here: It is easier to maintain control than it is to gain/regain control.
I have spent the past two yeas tellling people almost this same thing.there weren't occupy wall street people, but that in fact the aims of the "progressives"and tea party folks aren't that far apart, but that they have different solutions. Better to have these two different groups working towards a solution, than the status quo, which is paid to ignore any real solution to problems by the top 1%. I send out that e-mail of michael moore and larry king from cnn. they have the same "problems", just different solutions. The elites of either party refuse to recognize our problems, because then they would have to address it.
the fact that we have two wars and no anti war party, we have no party that stands against the ever greater intrusions on our constitutional liberties (against patriot act, domestic spy, et), we have no party agsinst the corrosive influence of big business on government. , full audit of the federal reserve and all of it's programs, shows how the elites coontrol the adgenda of both parties towards their own ends. Wake up folks, for the most part the elites that run both parties are the same people except for fringe folks like the koch brothers. they donate to both parties, etc. they play golf together,
Since these simple statements are supported by the vast majority of americans it is crucial that these two camps be kept apart by the elites and divided so they can't obtain a crucial voting block.
Look I have problems with Ron Paul, and some of his things in my view are extreme. But he fits the crucial bill with the above 4 critical items. So, I shall become a declared republican to vote for him in the primary.
good post mike!!!
Don't you think that the very best aspect of this is that it is individual, random, unrefined, varied, diverse, angry and demanding changes so compelling that they can't be summed up in a sound byte or a 30 minute puke-u-mentary on tv? Why the label of left or right when it goes so far beyond that, and everyone knows this? Coopting would be fair if someone is advertising themselves. But it doesn't seem to be that way. The point may be that there is no way to describe the reasons because they are too diverse. There is a one word definition that may apply, and it has been used as a solution in our nation one time before. It is 1775 and the new year is at hand.
Geithner told Obama he runs things, not Obama. That is the problem.
So is subversive propaganda. Mike Moore takes a part, but he is nothing more than a leaning lefty. I'm more worried about Soros, Buffet, and the Kichs....who use subversive propaganda to channel the anger of the masses to things that don't fix their advantages over us.
The riots will begin soon, just watch.
There should be riots. The average American has been getting screwed for decades.
Oh, yeah, that Michael Moore sure does SCARE ME.
OH NOEZ!!! A populist blowhard fatguy!
HE'S A THREAT TO ALL THE WORLD!
blunderdog......you are giving Moore too much credit....fat is an UNDERSTATEMENT....THAT GUY IS MORBIDLY OBESE!!!
SHIT FIRE, LOOK AT HIS HEAD...HE IS BEAKER FROM THE MUPPETS....NO NECK...JUST A TEST TUBE TURNED UPSIDE DOWN....
the guy technically is morbidly obese...fat is being nice..:)
Shoot, you're right, I get him mixed up with Alex Jones, that populist blowhard fat guy.
Well, either way, he's not any scarier just 'cause he's a populist blowhard morbidly-obese guy.
I see why you are blunderdog. You couldn't target Goldman Sachs instead of Michael Moore? Does Michael Moore get a FED line of credit? Does Michael Moore get to screw around with the futurs markets to drive up the price of gas and almost everything else? Does Michael Moore have tens of thousands of employees getting half a million dollar+ bonuses from manipulating markets and selling worthless crap to naive people? The biggest threat to the world is the stupidity and ease of manipulating idiots like you.
sarchasm, obviously
A touch light, apparently.
"It is 1775 and the new year is at hand"
I'd actually say it is JUST before that, around 1769 to 1770, when the "Red Coats" began firing on their own citizens, mostly young and grunt workers who worked in textile mils, rope factories, and ivory turners that were acting in civil disobedience as a result the high taxes on their shitty pay (and no control over the Mass Bay colony's currency).*
That was the red flag event that kicked off the revolution. What will be for us? Greece default? Mass layoffs of 1m+? NYPD firing on unarmed protestors? Assassinations? Who knows?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_massacre
*Of course all we hear about is the sailor Crispus Attacks, the black guy who stole a British soldier's coat.
We are in need of an "event" to galvanize the protesters. Wonder if this might be real or contrived. I like the comment that the protesters hate Wall Street, want more government regulation, but don't realize Wall Street is the government and will write the regulations to suite themselves. And if this goes too far the government will unleash local law enforcement in the first annual Punch a Neo-Hippy Day.
My research advisor back in the 80s said that the only reason he went to 60s protests was to get laid. And if he didn't go to the protests but got the day off he got laid. Is there a lot of pheremone activity at these gatherings?
The occupy Wall Street protesters seem like a bunch of clueless idiots but I am beginning to sympathize with them on one level.
They may be forced into this protest because there is nothing else out there for them. They were taught crap in schools, they have no job prospect and there will soon be no social wellfare state to care for them. Anytime you have a large population of young people who are unemployed and have nothing better to do, it will spawn trouble. Pretty soon their troubles will become our troubles unless we can figure out a solution. I respect Cain's comment about these protesters who are unemployed holding themselves responsible for their troubles, but I don't think these protesters can comprehend the wisdom of his words. His words are empowering because he means that they can shape their own lives, but these folks have been taught to feel helpless. They've been brought up to be irresponsible and they will kick, scream, and riot to try to get what they need.
They need a vocation to occupy them and to keep them fed, clothed and living in a descent shelter. The trouble is twofold - 1. they don't know how to work and 2. we don't have the jobs in this country to employ them even if they knew how to do some sort of work.
The solution is going to be very difficult.
As far as mike more...I WAS THINING THE SAME...WHAT DOES HE HAVE TO DO WITH THIS SHIT ANYWAY?? wolf in sheeps clothing....
The Tea party will not join in with this group. They cannot play hackey sack very well, and most of them do not smoke dope.
And there's a lot of selling going on there as well.
And we all know who controls that trade. This is a CIA operation.
TPTB can be judged to have INTENTIONALLY Killed The Goose; America...
If you have not tumbled to the fact that They of TPTB intend your Imminent Demise you will go as gently into that good night as They have engineered....
Cognitive Dissonance is more like Cognitive Dysfunction; the inability to reconcile and assimilate events and recognize intent. Most Americans are unable to assimilate that they are slated for destruction. The facts are plain. Even the morons at Wharton and Harvard touch on "don't let your deal go down" as foundational curriculum. It is impossible for anyone with a business-tuned brain to accept that what was done to America was "a series of unfortunate events" or merely accidental bad planning.
25% of America is not working. Many of the working are not employed in any field related to their degree. Many advanced degree holders are unable to find any work in their, often technical, fields of training. American business has shown no need for this 25%, (more likely 35%) of the workforce eligible population, and actually has no need for the higher-trained who are not employed currently in their field...
TPTB have Looted The Nation. You can see the useful idiots/minion who vote and hold sway to serve TPTB at every level throughout our society. (If it were not so, could things have gotten this progressedly into ruin?)
John Dewey and other educational stalwarts did their best to deny cognition skills to public educated populace, so there are few who can reconcile what has occured.
Not really anything can do to fix this problem. States would need to recall legislators and take control through emergency means, and we all know that TPTB have their lackeys in place to continue to wreck the Nation...
Hope you and yours tumbled to what is about to manifest and are out of the line of fire and prepared to live with some means of self-sufficiency.
You are confusing TPTB of today with TPTB of 100 years from today. Today's PTB want the hustle and bustle we had before Peak Oil. They love to see the crowded streets and shops. The freeways at rush hour. The Malls. They wax nostalgic when they think about the way we were.
It's their successors 100 years hence who can live without the madding crowds. Get the earth's population down somewhere between 1 and 2 billion. That'll be Eden for them
+++
Point out these facts and most people's eyes glaze over, or change the subject. But, a few do get it. So, keep pointing out the facts and hope you can build a base of support for what is coming down the pike: OWS, Arab Spring, Flash Mobs and Swarm Violence. Astute readers, see link below to understand a part of the plan, The Black Awakening. Read, but more important do your own research and check out the facts.
http://seerfax.wordpress.com/2010/11/04/secrets-of-the-black-awakening/
Order from Chaos, Ordo ab Chaos, and chaos increases.
I would say the Occupy Wall Street movement is actually entering the third phase of Ghandi's little poem, the Tea Party never made it past the second. Unless someone can point to where hundreds of them were kettled by police, pepper sprayed, and beaten? They are doing a phenomenal job, kudos to anyone out there in the street fighting for the rest of us 99ers.
So the guy with the most broken bones is the winner?
I think Mike is romanticizing these folks as seekers of truth. But this seems to be (at a minimum) your roving annual GATT meeting protest mob - not that there's anything wrong with GATT protests.
These folks are prepared, networked, committed, funded, organized, and heavily ideologized. The smart ones among them are probably Nader voters (again, not that there's anything wrong with that - they could likely hold an intelligent conversation with a ZHer). The dumbos in the majority seem to be your generic Democrat Party youth vote. If Barney Frank showed up (or Chris Dodd) they'd cheer themselves hoarse.
That's the main difference between them and us. These folks want easy credit, benefits, entitlements, and all the fine things redistribution brings. We want a level playing field and an end to crony-rigging.
The promise was made that a communitarian/collectivist opposition to the Tea Party would be formed. It is here. Once this mob is physically unleashed on Tea Party protestors (or any other enemy of the Dems), the Mikes of the world will understand that this bunch is already under the control of "educators."
Mr. Obama has seen disappointment in his Wall Street fundraising last quarter. His Wall Street paymasters, if they get rattled enough by the Van Jones Theatre Company, will find BHO all the money he needs should he promise to desist with the "occupying."
Believe me, no "occupier" will say no to Obama, once the word comes down.
Famous Obma quote (said to banksters): "Rembember, I am the only thing standing between you and the pitchforks."
Seems relevant here.
The question is - why is he standing between them and the pitchforks - they hate him anyway. I think he's positioning himself out of the way. He's not stupid.
What should i think about this article? The first half was just great.... and then he demolishes the great mental platform he built in the first half, by going for the old, boring and just hopelessly mentally lazy road of "No, this isn't X, because it doesn't behave like i want it to. Oh, and by the way: "true X" has never ever been implemented, so you see, my ideology is INVINCIBLE BY DEFINITION... i'm an ideological retard fanboy."
The above isn't specific to capitalism. You have the same kind of lazy thinking among communism proponents, socialism proponents, individualism proponents, collectivism proponents..... actually, in pretty much every ideology: Theory true by definition, practice fail. And anyways, if you need to subscribe to ANY camp just to reason if a statement is true or not, then you're incapable of doing just that anyways.
And as for hijacking something? Uh, i dunno.... it looks to me like the common consensus for being at the protests, is simply disliking what the banks do. What does that have to do with any ideology? When it comes to banks, you can have "true-capitalism"-freaks, "true-communism"-freaks and "true-socialism" freaks all aboard, because they all hate it. So, why do you spent half the space of the article pushing capitalism? Are you perhaps one of those trying to hijack something?
Can i rate this article 5 and 1 simultaneusly someway?
There is a diverse dynamic of groups making up these protests, I think the group that is intent on restoration of the American constitution is the only one worth a nickel on my drum, and this of course being one of the groups not funded by old crusty george.
Michael Moore is exactly right. Capitalism is elitism and is designed to concenterate wealth in the top percentile of the population. The only possible road to real change is the complete abolishment of corporations.
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all." J.M. Keynes
1 Star engineering:
Our cogs of type X behave evil, therefore all ways how X could be manufactured and used are evil.
Ugh? You know, i could apply the same braindead argumentation logic, to every kind of economy, that ever existed, because all that ever existed sucked!
Your argument to "fix everything" by just abolishing all corporations, is about as intelligent, as other peoples argument to fix everything by just abolish any kind of gov.
By now, i feel similiar about capitalists and communists, as i feel about the left and right..... both batshit retarded, and both being focussed more on what label one stamps on something, than how that something works.
May i offer you some "rynako" stamps? They fix everything you stick them to. Why? Because i say so. Only 1oz gold per box of 100!
Your argument to "fix everything" by just abolishing all corporations, is about as intelligent, as other peoples argument to fix everything by just abolish any kind of gov.
Intelligence has nothing to do with it.
A sentence that starts "to fix everything" is foundationally wrong. You can't correct the sentence by changing what comes after--the real failure starts with the premise that somehow things can be fixed.
You can't "fix everything" because nothing is "broken."
Umm, i don't know, i consider "disfunction" something that is "broken" - and there's a lot of disfunction in civilization for everyone. But maybe you're using different definitions.
Anyways, i don't yet see the usefulness of your post, besides of pointing out that expecting something to "fix everything" is an impossible to meet demand... that may be so, but it is..... umm, irrelevant to my overall argument in my above post?
What i argued was that the popular idea, of fixing something, by just banning an entire category of things.... just because they are the visible symptoms.... is about as clever as shooting the messenger. What matters isn't what "label" something has, but HOW it works. I.e. banning corporations doesn't prevent at all that something else with similiar undeseired properties arises, yet isn't called "corporation".
Or even shorter: That moron is fighting words and classifications, not what they relate to. Evil corporation-word, badbadbad! Evil gov-word, badbadbad! If i wouldn't know better, i'd think civilization is a lunatic asylum - or wait, i don't know better.
Hrm. Having a tough time getting words around the point...
What I'm saying is: if you object to oversimplification of discussion about how to "fix" stuff, you're already behind the 8-ball. If you want to change things, IGNORE the previous concepts that you'd now like to classify as problem or obstacle.
So instead of thinking for a second about whether it would be better or worse to "ban corporations," pretend there is no such thing as a corporation and decide how you think things should be in their absence.
Once you can visualize how life could be structured in a different society, you can very easily see how you take steps to get there.
"Socialism is the extraordinary belief that the best of men for the best of motives will somehow be slaves for the benefit of leeches."
You really need to broaden your perspective. It's not 1959, you know.
The problem with socialism isn't the slavery bit--we're all just fine with slavery, thank you very much--there's plenty of slavery in a capitalist system too.
The flaw with socialism is the notion that somehow government is going to do a better job of distributing goods/resources than the individuals can when left to their own devices. At best, citizens have very marginal influence over government policy.
Incidentally: quoting people without citations is plaigiarism. Try to come up with an idea of your own once in awhile.
you're good. 100% ^
it's not broken. it just needs some gas. :- )
America would be lucky if the end result of the occupiers is feudalsim. The backers of this "movement" have totalitarianism on their mind. They want to enslave America and punish her for her sins against citizens of the world and Mother Gaia.
Who are the leaders of this movement? Look no further than the our Protester-in-Chief. The man who taught the faithful in the ways of Saul Alinsky. This is a Marxist movement wrapped in sheeple's clothing. This "movement" has Rules for Radicals written all over it.
Rule #12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it and polarize it.
Guess what Obama's target is, and has been from the very beginning -- Evil Wall Street Bankers
Join this movement at the peril of your freedom. You think you're a slave to "the system" now? You havent' seen anything like living under Marxism. Ask a Russian immigrant. Ask a Chinese immigrant. Ask a Cuban immigrant.
Those countries are good examples of marxism only if you believe the US is a good example of the free market.
But the US is becoming more like those countries all the time. Ironically, communist China has been becoming more like the US since 1978 and they've been on one long upswing. Looks like increasing freedom works and diminishing freedom doesn't.
Oh, I get it. They all got Marxism wrong :)
But you're different. Your not like the other ones.
BTW, is Bam different too?
Capitalism is water under the bridge.
Peak Oil is washing away the bridge's towers and cable anchors as we speak.
I'm sick of the term, "crony-capitalism." That implies that it's still some form of capitalism. It surely is not. Corporatism is more appropriate, but doesn't sound nearly bad enough. We need a new term. How about douchism?
I think in this specific case, you can be mentally lazy, and just call every economic model that was ever implemented, a crapocracy.
And some implementations of capitalism - "crony-capitalism" included, are among the vast universe of crapocracy. All your bases are belong to crap.
There's a perfectly good term for the joining of government and (some) business: fascism.
We have had fascists-in-chief from both the D and the R column. We need to have 60+ Senators and 218+ Reps who will throw out the bath water, realizing the baby is floating face down.
Barring that, tax holiday. Until 2026.
Please, please, I emplore you, someone help these kids. I know there are a lot of influential people on here. Hell, most of you have probably walked by these protesters and laughed, then go to your computers and posted hallow comments on here echoing the same thing these kids are out there physically voicing. Mike is right, this is a defining moment. It either gets usurped or someone can walk down a couple of blocks and take up a bull horn. Ghandi was not just one man, he had the backing of a nation.
BTW, I would, but I live very far away and am poor.
Gandhi walked for hundreds of miles in a diaper.
True dat, but he had the help of his people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Satyagraha
.
The problem with these protests is as the author pointed out. They are being co-opted to serve the old left-right political agendas. Just as the Tea Party serves the rights political agenda of 'back to Reagan', the OWS group will serve the left's political agenda of statism. When I listen to right wing talk radio they are incapable or comprehending that there is something wrong with a completely unregulated and government abetted bloated financial-corporatist economy. On the left they are unable to comprehend that big government and overregulation can be part of the problem. On both sides they just don't get it.
I am forced to conclude that the interests that are backing both sides of this are only using it to divide us further for their purposes. Until somehow the sides can think outside of the idealogical boxes that are defined for them by their loudest voices, their biggest celebrities, and know-nothing media, this will continue to be a fractured and in the end impotent movement. Sadly I think it will take another election cycle and maybe even a collapse to clear people's heads of their ideological cobwebs. I hope to be wrong.
That dude said nothing I can disagree with.
Something deep in my gut says this has communist party written all over it, I don't usually go against my gut (especially when that douche walks by and says it's a borderless thing, fucking sovreignty to tears is what pigmen are all about):
https://mayfirst.org/
http://occupywallst.org/
With the Alinsky recipe, community organizing, causing chaos and angst is part of the plan.
Have to agree with red pill about the opposing sides. Sad thing is, getting stuff for free is easier to understand than liberty and we know which way these things go.
Stay free my friends, mainly by sleeping with lots of beautiful women and guns on piles of gold.
JPM makes largest donation ever made to NYPD
http://www.emoneydaily.com/j-p-morgan-chase-co-nysejpm-makes-4-6m-donation-to-nypd/69818864/
I'll concede that the protesters are "usefully ignorant", but Mr. Krieger is a useful idiot for missing the point: What REPLACES the "system" once these glorious revolutionaries "bring it all down"? The Tea Party has a blueprint that worked to perfection until Christmas Eve 1913, i.e. Tea Partiers were looking to RETURN to a system based on reason and Nature's Law. The Wall Street Ignoramuses are being led to the slaughter just as the "courageous youths" of Egypt were (all they did was usher in a military coup). So tell me Mr. Krieger, how can you be anything other than a useful idiot if you support an idiotic uprising that will only lead to chaos and then tyranny?
You might wanna lookup Otpor! and CANVAS before getting aroused by this "movement"... http://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2011/07/19/engdahl-the-revolution-business/
Sometimes people laugh at you because you ARE an idiot. Just say'in.
Rush nails it, at usual. Link below.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2011/10/06/the_regime_concocted_occupy_wall_street_to_target_mitt_romney