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Mohamed El-Erian: US Economic Conditions Are "Terrifying", Recession Chances Are 50%

Tyler Durden's picture


Something tells us that Mohamed El-Erian is aware of the bulls' last bastion of "growth" and "decoupling"- the dip in Initial Claims below 400K. Even so, his appearance on Bloomberg TV was full of sound and fury, and some quite memorable soundbites, starting with this one: "Let me tell ou what I find most terrifying: we’re having this discussion about a risk of recession at a time when unemployment is already too high, at a time when a quarter of homeowners are underwater on their mortgages, at a time when the fiscal deficit is 9%, a time when interest rates are at zero. These are all conditions coming out of a recession, not going into a recession." The Newport Beach dweller is spot on: the situation is getting worse by the day, and the only option left is to do more of what has already failed so many times, and which only makes non-dilutable transitory monetary equivalents that much more attractive (with the mandatory liquidation which may bring them to triple digits first of course).

Transcript from Bloomberg TV

On the U.S. going into a double-dip recession:

"I am worried. We've had two bits of unfavorable news in the last 24 hours. One you reported this morning, which is that we have less economic momentum than we thought we had - 2% growth as opposed to 2.5%.  The second is that yesterday we had no policy momentum. We're worried about the concept of stall speed, that 2% growth may not be enough for an economy that still has to de-lever. We put the chance of a recession at one-third to one half, which is really high given initial conditions."

On policy makers in Washington, D.C.:

"[Policy makers] are totally off the track. It's not a failure to agree on medium-term fiscal reforms, it's also a failure to give air cover for other things that need to be done -- in housing, in the labor markets, in credit. We have no policy momentum. Let me tell you what I find most terrifying: we’re having this discussion about a risk of recession at a time when unemployment is already too high, at a time when a quarter of homeowners are underwater on their mortgages, at a time when the fiscal deficit is 9%, a time when interest rates are at zero."

On what factors could be driving a double-dip recession: 

"This is a fragile economy. It doesn't mean we don't have strength, we certainly do - the corporate sectors are as strong as we have ever seen it in terms of balance sheets. We have incredible entrepreneurial spirit. But we're facing all these structural headwinds, and the big concern is the possibility of us being tipped over by Europe. Things in Europe, as you mentioned a few minutes ago, are getting worse, not better."

On solutions in the U.S.:

"Unlike Europe, the U.S. doesn't face an engineering problem - it faces a political problem. The solution is not an engineering nightmare. You can actually put it on paper and get it done. But it's been a political nightmare. What we'd like to see is the political class to come together and agree on the steps that need to be taken."

"As you have heard us say over and over again, Bill Gross has been saying it, I've been saying it, other PIMCO colleagues have been saying it -- it's structural in nature. We need medium term structural reforms to increase the growth potential and job creation potential of this economy. We can do it. This is different from Europe. Europe has both a political problem and an engineering problem. Our problems are small relative to Europe, but if we wait they will become larger."

On the S&P's statement that US rating is unaffected by the supercommittee:

"That is what S&P is telling us. We have to remember that S&P still has us on negative outlook which means unless things improve over the next three years, there could well be another downgrade. The ratings agencies in general are in a very tough position. We talked about at PIMCO's investment committee yesterday. They've been beaten up a lot, both for what they have done and for mistakes that disrupted the markets for a while. It is hard to be a ratings agency today. You have to read these comments in that context. They are under fire."

On Joseph Stiglitz's comments that austerity measures make the crisis worse:

"I think [Stiglitz] is right, in the sense that the muddled middle, where Europe has been, is no longer sustainable. The crisis that started in the outer periphery, Greece, not only has shifted to the inner periphery and the outer core, Spain and Italy, but it has also impacted France which is the inner core."

"Europe needs to make a choice if it wants to save the euro, and it should save the euro. There's only two choices: one is a full fiscal union, a political decision with a very large bill. The other [choice] is a smaller, less-than-perfect euro zone, which has political implications but has a smaller bill. That is a political decision that Germany must take. The quicker it takes it, the more likely it will be able to save the euro."

On the options that could save Europe:

"There are no easy options. That's why the process is paralyzed. Wherever the policy makers look, they see tremendous costs and tremendous disruptions. The tendency has been to do too little, too late. There is no costless way forward at this point, and that is a problem that all of us have to internalize and understand, that there are no easy solutions."

On Europe being the single biggest threat to the U.S. economy:

"Left to our own, we would muddle along with the risk of stall speed, but one thing we cannot cope with is the major shock from one of the largest economic areas of the world, Europe. Already we're seeing investors stepped back from markets because of the anxiety. The more that happens, the more dysfunctional these markets become."

On whether the Fed should implement QE3:

"I smiled when one of your guests said earlier that the Fed has been the only adult in Washington. That is true. It has been the only institution willing to take steps. As you pointed out, because the Fed has taken these steps, it has taken pressure off of the rest of Washington to do its part…Other agencies haven't stepped up to the plate. It is time for other agencies to step up. The effectiveness of the Fed is declining, unfortunately, day in and day out."

On what the Fed should do:

"Chairman Bernanke has made it clear and he's repeating it three times, saying that when they look at these unconventional policies, they recognize the benefits but there are costs and risks. What we call collateral damage, unintended consequences."

"[Bernanke] recognizes that that equation, that balance, is shifting from potential benefits to costs and risks. Looking forward, if they were to do QE3, they may get some benefits, but I suspect there would also be quite a bit of collateral damage and distortions put into the system that would take us years to overcome."

"[Collateral damage would be] pressure on the currency. What you will see is pressure on the functioning of markets, you will see people stepping back, because more and more non-commercial forces will be determining market outcomes. We will also see questions about the credibility of the Fed and the political autonomy of the Fed."


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Tue, 11/22/2011 - 15:50 | 1903763 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

Is the other 50% chance of armageddon?

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 15:52 | 1903767 CPL
CPL's picture

And a 50% chance of just being plain old shitty and awful.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 15:58 | 1903793 Captain Kink
Captain Kink's picture

50% chance of Death by starvation, 50% of drowning in worthless FRNs.  Hell, on a long enough timeline...

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:01 | 1903805 i root for that...
i root for that fat jersey governor's picture

Gross and El Erian are socialists, period.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:12 | 1903855 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

El-Erian states as one of his scary things being that "a quarter of homeowners are underwater". The true measure of if a home is underwater, which is if the homeowner needs to bring money to the table at closing or not, brings underwater homes to 50% of all mortgages. A 6% Realtor fee and other selling fees MUST be considered when measuring if a home is underwater.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:19 | 1903891 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Since TPTB love euphamisms so much, why don't we just refer to underwater houses as "land-based submarines"? Voila', problem solved.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 18:30 | 1904483 trav7777
trav7777's picture

well, I still have a job, so it can't be an apocalypse yet, right?  lol

Fuck fiscal restraint; this sucker could go down anyway, so let's get as much dollars migrated to these pockets as possible before the lights go out

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 18:51 | 1904546 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

The more money that is printed, the more malinvestments are created, and the more pain the collapse will bring. It would be best to stop the malinvestments and stop the cheap money right now so there's not as big of a hole to climb out of. 

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 19:12 | 1904601 Fedophile
Fedophile's picture

Politicians don't solve non-problems, and like Trav said I still have a job, so there's no problem. They'd much rather line their and their criminal accomplices own pockets and expand the defence budget, again lining more pockets. Lets face it, unless Ron Paul gets voted into office or there is another crisis the deficit will continue to be >> 0. 

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 20:29 | 1904793 eureka
eureka's picture

Yes. And El Erian is hopelessly behind the curve and speaks in muddled metaphors and says nothing.

"US problems are only political..."

Oh, so US corporations don't pay taxes and don't invest their largest cash holdings, generated by outsourcing and offshoring and bailouts and FED RES $ via their internal and or associated "banks" and from stock and bond issuances i.e. debt and from cutting 25 million US jobs and pushing the remaining employees to work twice as hard... US corporations don't invest all this "hard earned" money in the US - for "political" reasons...?

El Erian, go home to Newport Beach and play with your billionaire friends. You're wasting everyone's time.

And turn off Bloomberg, Tyler.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 21:07 | 1904867 ElTerco
ElTerco's picture

"US problems are only political..."

I think Eureka knows what the above quote means, but I will spell it out for those who don't; It means that if the United States of America were to raise taxes on the wealthy, the United States of America's fiscal problem would be non-existent.  We have plenty of money to fix our problems, and plenty of selfishness based greed and coruption to block that fix.  The rich have forgotten that they are rich because of the labor of the poor.  They need to grow up and give something back for a few years to get us through the crisis.  Instead, the rich have been demanding lower and lower taxes over the last twenty years because their greed has clouded their vision as to what it takes to run a socially healthy and thus wealthy society.

As far as the supercommitte goes, a dollar in cuts for every dollar in tax increases would be a pretty good deal, and it is the intransigence on part of the part of the people blocking the tax increases that will destroy this country.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 21:25 | 1904950 vato poco
vato poco's picture

One of the difficulties inherent to written communication is the difficulty of determining the tone of the writer, and thus the true intent of what he's trying to say. Help a brother out here, Terco...were you being sarcastic? Or are you just incredibly stupid? Thanks so mucho!!

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 22:04 | 1905081 donsluck
donsluck's picture

Calling someone you disagree with "stupid" does not reflect critial thinking, nor does it further the debate.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 22:10 | 1905093 ElTerco
ElTerco's picture

Just incredibly stupid!!  Thanks for asking!!!

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 15:27 | 1907848 vato poco
vato poco's picture

OH, so you were SERIOUS about that whole "Tax your way to prosperity!" bullshit that I mistook for sarcasm. Well, Daddy always said arguing with a fool was a waste of time, so you just have yourself a nice Thanksgiving, Turco. Perhaps you can pray that the poor starving North Koreans and Somalians will raise taxes soon, and thus end their decades of agony. And the Greeks & Italians, as well! Problem solved!

(contented sigh) Taxes. Is there ANYthing they can't do?

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 01:55 | 1905771 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

AMEN ElTerco, I have been saying this for 30 years.  I have been saying this since I was a rich man under the Raygun regime and had to pay nothing year after year on more than $165k income living in one of the finer spec homes on a brilliant hill overlooking the Sonoma valley.  It was wrong then and even more wrong now.  I know that does not sound like so much now but it really was a lot then.  Investing was easy then, you had a trust fund with a hundred million or so and family money of much more and accountants did it all for you, you could park it in bonds and have a safe return that would only double your money about every 9 years.  No transaction fees, no taxes whatever. 

It is now so much harder for the poor billionaires, they actually have to get off the fucking yacht once in a while and check in because now they have to risk something to keep up with inflation, if they do not they could find themselves out of caviar in a matter of just a few generations. 

It really was sweet back then, big manse on a mountain looking down on all the fucking workers in Santa Rosa, plenty of coke and booze, wreck a car get another.  Cops look the other way when a rich man is involved, they shrug and let the insurance people take care of it because they know if they arrest a rich man they will be looking for work the next day.  Swimming pool heated in January for a party, 6 friends to ride along to your villa for a couple weeks in March in Jamaica.  Go to the mall and not have to deal with poor people because every store recognizes you and what amounts to a personal shopper comes to tend your needs.  Macy's was best at that.  Neiman Marcus for lunch in the city with Mom, models would bring dresses to her while we had cocktails upstairs in the atrium overlooking Union Square.  Of course, we had a card and there is no such thing as a limit on an NM card, if you have one you can afford anything they sell.  In fact we had a shoebox filled with cards, some of my favorites were for the casinos in Nevada, man what a good time Nevada is when you have the buckage.  Probably sucks for the people who live there though.

You know you are wealthy when you look down on Marin County as a bedroom community.  You know you are wealthy when you understand that there are two kinds of people in America, those with liquid funds and those without.  That the whole system is set up to make sure YOUR freedom is like a holy relic to which everyone prays, and who cares how they get along, it is enough to know that somehow they do.  And nobody in your ruling class will ever mention the constitution, they do not have to because they are already as free as any human ever will be, and to mention it is to remind your servants they are not.  Good help is hard to get at minimum wage you know. 

I know because I have been there, I have met and rubbed elbows with TPTB.  Recognized as an equal.  Prospected as a match for debutants, but only by wannabe types because the real elites knew I do not play on that team.  And then came the crash.  Divorce.  Of course after all those years I left with nothing but my clothes and the pink slip to my car, part of why gay marriage is held back in spite of popular support and rule of law, rich men do not want their lovers getting half of anything, bad enough their beard wives smoke them in court.  But, I did walk out of it all because trips to the flower mart in the city to pick up a few hundred dollars worth of blooming glory so you can have a spectacular dinner party, or a boozy game of tennis on the tennis court/helicopter pad are wonderful, everyone should enjoy it, and believe it or not this nation is rich enough everyone could enjoy it, but how much fun would it be to have ultra wealth and power when everyone has it?  Half the fun is making the 99% suffer to work for you. 

I saw it then for what it was, a manipulating evil.  It would have been OK if everyone who worked got in on it, but I have seen life at exactly the other end of the glass.  I have also been utterly homeless and broke.  Ever gone into a bar dead broke and acted like you belonged there so you could pick up a pack of smokes nobody in particular was watching?  Ever lived in a national forest for two years because you had no other place to go?  I have. 

Now I am coming to the end of my life and I wonder why people allow themselves to be so fucked.  It is not communism to have a minimum allowable poverty level and a maximum allowable wealth.  But even if it were I would say nobody ever should be hungry, or homeless because of lack of education or work.  If someone does not want to work then OK, but nobody should be cut out of life when they are willing to work.  And the rich?  No matter what system is ruling us, no matter what ISM you abide by there will always be those that have more than others and even the one with the most, they will always be the rich even if that is $100,000 rather than 70 billion.  This is why I do not understand republicans, what is it they want?  To be rich?  Divide the wealth perfectly evenly and we would ALL be rich, by world standards we would still be the wealthiest place in the world and because it is shared we would solve so many problems.  Not the least of which would be all the damned bitching from the right and the left. 

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:22 | 1903906 ratso
ratso's picture

Okay. I get it.  El Erian is saying MAYBE THE SKY MIGHT FALL.  This is the same guy who was predicting the immanent rise in Treasury rates because the Fed was doing QE 1 and 2.  It turned out that rates fell and teh sky did not fall then. 

Oh by the way on last check, the sky is not falling. 

BRING ANOTHER BOGEY MAN PLEASE,  This one is not very scary.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:53 | 1904080 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

No, the sky isnt falling. But the economy IS fucked.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:14 | 1904166 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Nah, we only have a political problem, the pols are not doing enough to satisfy the big banks and funds.  Once the pols toe the line our problem is fixed we don't have any problems like Europes unsustainable debt, nope..   15 trillion tis' but a flesh wound..

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 18:31 | 1904492 trav7777
trav7777's picture

by fucked do you mean that we are having a discovery process where a lot of people are finding out that what they thought was a productive job really wasn't?

Gonna be a lotta that goin around...

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 18:34 | 1904500 CPL
CPL's picture


Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:54 | 1904084 i root for that...
i root for that fat jersey governor's picture

never listen to his bs. He loves fed printing money. first look you might say it is because PIMCO got it ass kicked by underweight in treasuries and they want to prove that are not big idiots as they are. but deep inside, el erian and especially gross are socialists for sure if not left extremists.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:45 | 1904320 RaymondKHessel
RaymondKHessel's picture

Correct they want and expect QE3 just like gold bugs do....

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 18:30 | 1904485 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture


Trading Places (@ 2:17)


Tue, 11/22/2011 - 22:09 | 1905104 donsluck
donsluck's picture

Sorry to disagree, but Socialism is right wing, reflecting higher government control. It goes, from left to right, anarchy, libertarianism, democracy, republicanism, socialism, fascism - reflecting government control over individual action.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 19:47 | 1904681 luna_man
luna_man's picture


"ratso"...Even I'm tough, as long as the light's are on!...Light's go out,

I find it hard to sleep...I just know that "BOGEY MAN" is coming.


Just hope you're not too proud, to stand in the food line with the rest of us 99%'s.


Tue, 11/22/2011 - 19:58 | 1904714 Ropingdown
Ropingdown's picture

El Erian is saying "Our parent company, Allianz, is going to be on the ropes if the US doesn't weaken the dollar and throw liquidity at Europe."  He's just using roundabout language.  Everybody talks their book all the time.  There are no neutral speakers.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:32 | 1903962 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

Has anyone seen my son? He was supposed to be home after school to help me do some chores.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:41 | 1904022 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

Mom, he skipped school today.  He's watching Netflix in your basement closet.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:14 | 1904160 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

where is Dr Paul Krugman's mommy?  we already have his dad on here - Million Dollar Dumbass.  he hasn't said much since he called for a turnaround in BAC at $6.08 lol

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 19:21 | 1904623 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

You may not have noticed but HamyWangr is back.  MDB is off his lithium and has assumed his alter ego.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 18:39 | 1904514 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

I think he said he was going to RiteAid to get his mommy some titanium Gillette razor blades....

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:15 | 1903870 sitenine
sitenine's picture

Somewhat OT: Sorry to butt in, but does this bother anyone?

Seems to me that account holders are taking it up the ass again while the banks continue to get rich... Someone tell me I'm wrong.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:25 | 1903928 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Naw. It's all good, site9. JPM is once again stepping up to help a fallen comrade, and will pick-up the slack to aid the markets--at a steep cost to its own bottom line, I'm sure. Thank God for the JPMorgans and their ilk!

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:21 | 1904202 Doña K
Doña K's picture

I think that it was the "oracle of kypseli" that floated the notion a few days ago that US will sink Europe and buy their assets on the cheap

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 19:24 | 1904632 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture


Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:27 | 1903932 CPL
CPL's picture

This is going to get sooooo ugly so fast.


I'm waiting for the US civil servant pensions to implode from a lack of MF Global being there to manage the theft properly.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:28 | 1903945 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

Yes, you are wrong. I'm sure any "deal" involving JPM, MF Global, and LME has to do with God's work.

sarc off

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:17 | 1904182 knukles
knukles's picture

No, it's not at all bothersome

It's fucking terrifying!

The whole fucking system has broken down.
This is a blatant conflict of interest, unstopped, unmitigated legally sanctioned theft.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:39 | 1904010 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Whatever they are, they are expert at talking their book - and influential.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:07 | 1903821 Doña K
Doña K's picture

Just common sence dictates that the chances of anything happening at any time are 50/50. Attorneys will also tell you that no matter what, chances of winning or loosing in court are 50/50. (First year of law school.)

With everything happening arround us chances of depression are more than 50/50.

As far as recession (non-technical) we are in one.

We love and respect you Mr. El-Erian, but be honest with us.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:17 | 1903881 CPL
CPL's picture

Between El-Erian and Taleb assing around with the pseudo-messianic concepts in finance, I'm pretty sure that it was a 50/50 chance that either one or the other would be discussing this.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:47 | 1904328 The Fonz
The Fonz's picture

That is not how it works :) They have a zero percent chance of talking about it until someone does, then they all do.  It's like a pile of rice.  :P

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:47 | 1904330 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

Does that mean my thanksgiving turkey has a 50% chance of surviving?


Kind of makes me feel like shopping - err - for something other than high gain frequency pulse modulating digital jammers and 12 gauge reload primers!

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:06 | 1903806 knukles
knukles's picture

Owwwww dat's a really scary. kids.

Terrifying.  Fucking terrifying.  Caught at the end of a dead alley way with no way out being pursued by a 1000 zombies wanting to fist you while they feast terrifying?
Followed by a pride of really fucking hungry lions terrifying?
Actual battle conditions terrifying?
Shit your pants and throw up all over yourself terrifying?

With a 50% chance of a recession terrifying?
Whatthefuckintheworld is wrong with you people?
This is why a manager underpreforms benchmarks and peers.

That's fucking terrifying.
Loosing all your AUM, no fucking bonus pool to retain your best people, get fucking bent over badgered and harassed at clients and consultants at meetings terrified?
Get fired terrifying?
Terminal cancer terrifying?

Fucking stroke, heart attack terrifying?

With a 50% chance of fucking drizzles.

Jesus Christ on a fucking lolipop stick terrifying.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:08 | 1903831 Captain Kink
Captain Kink's picture

Jesus Christ on a fucking lolipop stick terrifying

Damn!  I laughed afternoon coffee outta my nose!

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:20 | 1903899 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

I am no longer terrified of shitting my pants and throwing up all over myself.  I have faced this fear and am stronger for it.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:16 | 1904178 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

I simply shat a bit, over it now

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:36 | 1904281 Rakshas
Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:09 | 1903813 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Mo didin't get the memo?

Old St. Bernankio is on his way with a his sleigh, and everything's going to be fine this Christmas.

And look everyone! It's being pulled by gleaming green & white fiat!


You know Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln & Hamilton

Jackson, Grant, Franklin & McKinley

Cleveland, Madison & Chase, also...

...but do you recall?

The most famous fiat of all...

Woodrow Wilson the inflationary Fiat!

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:08 | 1903836 johnu78
johnu78's picture

What he meant to say is that there's a 100% chance of a dollar collapse in 2012.



Tue, 11/22/2011 - 15:56 | 1903785 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I was going to say depression, but I think you're more precise.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 15:59 | 1903797 macholatte
macholatte's picture


Never trust any financial advisor from Newport Beach.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 18:32 | 1904496 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

Plenty of them there but most are focused on entertainment, etc...

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 22:03 | 1909161 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture



Paid troll - blocking in effect.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 21:01 | 1904889 JSchroe
JSchroe's picture

Is that a veiled shot at Roth Capital and their endless stream of China Fraudcaps? 

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:46 | 1903827 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Terrifying = 50%? We can easily deduce that this is yet another jerkoff opining!

Terrifying = 98% min! Ergo SP500 to 850 and below = Terrifying.  50/50 is simply gambling black or red odds and has zero to do with Terrifying and zero to do with current market conditions.

So....without further ado.....the FUCK YOU du jour goes out to: Mohamed El-Erian!


Sheer idiocy!


And let's frame today's markets down a fraction of one percent as a good thing since the longer there is delusional unrealistic movement, there is going to be a much worse purge.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:10 | 1903848 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Tyler, thanks for posting this: El-Erian is getting better in his media appearances, and his book "When Markets Collide" is just as good as "The Big Short."  Too bad he and Bill have absolutely no clout in DC.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 18:57 | 1904563 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

They need a new partner. Maybe a something-Stein, something-Berg, you know. An Israel type. Then things would be Golden.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:12 | 1903853 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

I just hope the nuke lands on me so I won't have to deal with the aftermath trying to restart the human race

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:37 | 1904001 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

I plan on fucking the human race back back to pre-collapse levels! Bring on the bitches!

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:37 | 1904288 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Noah of the deluge.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:16 | 1903875 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Another 50% that Obama needs to deploy its civilian national security force to keep order and enslave the population to dig up the national gold reserves in the Andes mountains.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 18:05 | 1904406 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

So this is El-Erian's way of telling the Fed that he needs them to print more money, so his firm can continue to front-run the process.  That way he can still get his son the GI Joe with the king-fu grip for Christmas.  Sluts.....the whole lot of them.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 19:02 | 1904577 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

Preferential treatment for Cantor Fitzgerald, why not Pimco?

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 20:22 | 1904774 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture



Double FUCK YOU El-Erian.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 23:33 | 1905435 green888
green888's picture

Armageddon out of here

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 15:53 | 1903766 idea_hamster
idea_hamster's picture

I like the map that has all countries, regions and oceans labeled as "PIMCO" -- and we all thought the euro was the anti-christ's vehicle! </sarc>

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:17 | 1903879 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I was thinking the same :)

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 15:52 | 1903768 entropos
entropos's picture

Hey, RTM: you were first. Where's the gloating?


Tue, 11/22/2011 - 15:53 | 1903775 fuu
fuu's picture

"at a time when the fiscal deficit is 9%"


Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:04 | 1903815 ronin12
ronin12's picture

9% of GDP.


Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:37 | 1903996 fuu
fuu's picture

Ahh that almost makes sense. Thanks!

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:06 | 1903822 Diet Coke and F...
Diet Coke and Floozies's picture

per day...

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:18 | 1903886 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Unless..... Neah, everything will be fine, 9% it will be.....

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 15:53 | 1903776 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Newt Gingrich surges ahead.  We are well and truly %$#&ed.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:00 | 1903801 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Well, since none of the clowns are believable enough to distract attention from Dr. Paul, time to roll out the nerdy policy-wonks.

Besides, he's a lady's man, not a lady-boy's man, so it really sets him apart from the field.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:35 | 1904276 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Ron Paul is owning this hard. Romney was not going to compete in Iowa and simply "give" it to his VP choice, hometown girl bachman. do a google search on Iowa primaries.

The problem is, Romney hired bachman for the last 30 years to make sure he paid less effective INCOME taxes (as a billionaire, with a trust fund at birth) than the typical working single Mom, like bachmans mommy. Does anybody seriously think with people losing their homes, the deficits out of control, that people are going to put in a president like Romney? Buffet acting as evil Mr. Scrooge is garenteeing his choice (Obama) gets in office.

You can not make this stuff up folks. Ron Paul 2012 or intrade goes limit up on Obama 2012 shares. I am screwed cause this is my lever up to get some money to buy gold.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 20:11 | 1904742 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

In spite of being a lifelong (now former) democrat, I will vote for one republican in 2012, one I consider not republican but libertarian and American first, because as bad as the GOP is - and I would never vandalize my country with a republican vote -  I am in spite of myself planning to write in Ron Paul even if he has dropped out of the race by then.  The only way I would not write his name in is if he died before I got my ballot in which case I plan not to vote because every single one of the people running for the White House is either a fascist, a clown, a moron, or all of the above and Obama is the worst of the lot.  And when the vote is cast I plan to march down to the registrars office and deregister as a voter in protest of the sheer futility and mockery voting has become.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 22:27 | 1905167 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Yo, dead people have won elections before, just saying. :>D

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 07:38 | 1906025 falak pema
falak pema's picture

boiltherich :

your sentiment is typical of Dem disillusionment with GS's takeover of the donkey party. They own the Congress. So do like Rip VAn Winkle, go to sleep for twenty years; preferably on an island like ICeland, and wait for it all to blow over. By then the US will either be totally fascist or totally democratic. This crisis, having destroyed the middle kingdom, will only leave the edges to provide for the hobbit plebes and the Mordor plutocrats. 

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:00 | 1903802 Peter K
Peter K's picture

The word you are looking for is "SAVED".:)

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:07 | 1903825 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

The man with the most corrupt buddies wins!

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:48 | 1904337 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 That's what the Iranians are saying. +1

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:03 | 1904123 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Newt Gingrich surges ahead. We are well and truly %$#&ed.


We most assuredly are, as that is an AUTOMATIC Obama WIN.

As bad as Newt is, I would take him over the poser we have now.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 18:07 | 1904410 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I will NEVER vote for that Bottom Dweller!

  That would be like having Larry Kudlow as the Financial advisor to " Bill Clinton" ( 3rd term) , Putin style , via Hillary!   Grid Effin Locked!

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:15 | 1904168 TheAkashicRecord
TheAkashicRecord's picture


Gingrich sees a secular society as a "nightmare" and a "mortal threat to our civilization." 

Funny how most of the GOP is irrationally afraid of Sharia Law being implemented in the US, but wouldn't blink twice to enact the Christian variety.  

Hell some of them believed that God sent them on the presidential path.  Didn't realize divine right of kings was en vogue nowadays.  

Some think the US was formed as a Christian nation according to the founding fathers Christian beliefs.  

These candidates are fucking delusional.  Newt, the "historian" should know better.  Jefferson wrote is own fucking Bible (he took out all the supernatural aspects) for Christ's sake!  

Santorum concluded, “Our founders understood liberty is not what you want to do, but what you ought to do. That’s what liberty really is about.”

“How can you have judgment if you have no faith? How can I trust you with power if you don’t pray?”



Fuck, I need to move to one of those Nordic countries.  


Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:24 | 1904220 falak pema
falak pema's picture

go pagan and read this on the original clash of civilizations, when a pagan warrior used to grill the Newts of his age on bar b q :

very relevant to our age. Remember the Templar in Norway? This is perfect antidote.

Then as now.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:34 | 1904271 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

We went full pagan about two hours ago.  The police standoff is going well.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 19:36 | 1904660 JR
JR's picture

I think you may have Newt confused with someone else.

In a 2009 News With Views article, Who Is the Real Newt Gingrich, Devvy writes: "I ask you - who gave us the Mexican peso plunder of $52 billion, the Brady Bill, GATT, NAFTA and on and on and on? Dole, Gingrich, Herger, Clinton, Gephardt, Bonior, Feinstein, Bush - the list goes on. In August of 1993, Henry Kissinger, kingpin of this global kingdom, stated in an article he wrote for the Los Angeles Times Syndicate: 'NAFTA represents the single most creative step towards a New World Order since the end of the Cold War.'"

Regarding what you say of Gingrich’s nightmare of secular views, Devvy continues:

Gingrich's activities outside Congress are equally distressing. Alvin Toffler is a New Ag (New World Order)  guru and dear friend of Newt... Alvin Toffler's book, Creating A New Civilization: The Politics of the Third Wave, is a bizarre, revolutionary view and blueprint for the 2lst century. Gingrich WROTE the forward for this book - it's frightening and you should read both editions. These books became best sellers in Communist China because they mirror Mao.

On page 433 of Toffler, we read: "The founding fathers as the architects of the political system which served so well, this system of government you (founding fathers) fashioned, including the very principles on which you based it, is increasingly OBSOLETE and hence increasingly if inadvertently, OPPRESSIVE and DANGEROUS to our welfare. It must be RADICALLY changed and a NEW SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT INVENTED.... 

Referring back to the 1980 version of this book by Toffler and praised by Gingrich, I quote from page 227: "...the nuclear family can no longer serve as the ideal model for society.: The explanation then given for a solution is "more exotic possibilities" for the future family, i.e. "Homosexual marriages, communes, elderly people sharing expenses sex and families with several husbands and one wife."

Don't take my word for it, order Gingrich's voting record and read Toffler's book - both versions.  –Devvy

More and more, Gingrich seems to fit what he has always been described as: the stupid's man's version of what a wise man would be like.


Tue, 11/22/2011 - 23:59 | 1905512 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

". . . and families with several husbands and one wife."

phew, that has to be the first time I've ever seen this idea even mentioned, let alone committed to print.  hilarious.

and Newt's a tool of epic varietal.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 22:02 | 1905067 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Don't leave.  We have to stay and fight these bastards for future generations.  Newt is globalist prick!

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 15:54 | 1903778 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

BRIIINNNGGG ITTT. Let's have us a collapse!

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 15:55 | 1903782 MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

Tipped over by Europe?  Bullshit!  We have a bigger problem and it is called Barack Obama.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 15:56 | 1903787 Let them eat iPads
Let them eat iPads's picture

As useless as he is, it's kind of hard to pin the blame on a puppet.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:01 | 1903804 MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

You think?  Well lets start with the 5 Trillion that was added to the debt, the mess in the middle east, the end of drilling for oil in the US, the fuckin mess he has made on leading by-partisan efforts in Congress, the ruination of this banking sytem and allowing those same criminals to run the country... just for starters!! ok??  So, I blame him 150% for the mess we are in.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:13 | 1903858 Let them eat iPads
Let them eat iPads's picture

My memory is not so good but I seem to remember massive deficits, a mess in the ME, a broken Congress and criminal bankers running the country long before Obama arrived on the scene.

You're angry then that he hasn't fixed all these things, I take it.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:21 | 1904206 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Let them eat iPads

You're angry then that he hasn't fixed all these things, I take it.

Yep, we are, ANGRY that instead of trying to make them better, HE's made it 3x's worse.

And,has shown very little if any ways of trying to change it.

On the contrary, HE's added to it.(After TARP,when things stabilized), the entire house of cards should have been allowed to fail, as Capitalism init's  real form is done.

HE knew exactly what he was doing, and HE is allowing it to continue.We would have been out of this mess, and about 10Trillion less in debt.


Uh, yeah.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 22:00 | 1905057 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Your anger is warranted but very foolish, misdirected and childish!

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 00:02 | 1905523 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

what part of "Obama is a figurehead puppet" don't you grok??

aim higher.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 00:49 | 1905651 DeadFinks
DeadFinks's picture

Obama is a fucking crook like the rest of them. No different, in fact leader, figure head or not, of the crooks.  What part of this don't ytou get?

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 10:09 | 1906458 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Barry O has been calculating his every move and stroke of the pen according to how it will affect reelection possibilities.  Just ask a gay man because we were the very first sector of his party to get thrown under the bus.  If it were up to him don't ask don't tell would still be the law in the military.  And he has the justice department enforcing DOMA like he was a Taliban mullah.  That is just one example.  But the way he sees the process it is better to lose 10-20 percent of his gay voters who will just stay home than to energize three times that many on the fringe far right who so rabidly hate gay people. 

But Gingrich is the worst of the GOP lot in some ways, he is no more christian than I am and we all know it, at least Michelle B seems to actually old some of those xtian beliefs she espouses.  Gingrich is just a money/power hungry hypocrite, spewing what the fanatical GOP base demands to hear and they do not much care if the belief is sincere as long as you tow the line and spew it.  He might not have invented the politics of gridlock but he took it to new heights.  He most of all among everyone on the right has put his own fortunes and the fortunes of his party before the good of the nation. 

I have heard Mr. Huntsman speak and he strikes me as a very reasonable man, fair minded and genuinely putting America first.  And Romney is not a bad guy really, just has no charisma at all, and one gets the sense that he has no opinion on anything other than what his apparatchiks tell him the polls are indicating this week.  I can't for the life of me guess why he wants to be president, and anyway he is a Mormon, I will never vote for someone that claims to be a Mormon.  Let them sit on their board of directors with their magic underpants but not be in charge of the nation which would rue the day a Mormon got real power. 

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:19 | 1903893 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Who signed the first bailout?  Who signed TARP/TALF again?  Who signed the first checks for unfunded wars.

I see we have another idiot who still beleives the voting and the two party system really works.  Hey moron, both parties are funded by the same globalists.  If voting lead to change it will be made illegal.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:34 | 1904273 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Are we going back to Lincoln, the romans, or before?

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 18:09 | 1904417 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

You and I know this battle is much older than that Machoman.  Look at the bright side, times of great peril are often times of great opportunity.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 10:57 | 1906622 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Yeah...  however, opportunity in this case is not an evenly distributed metric...  basically, inertia in the previous life will carry forward into the next...  in a deleveraging environment, those who were able to squirrel away enough liquid and semi stable assets will be able to amass huge amounts of real property, et al, for pennies on the previous dollar....  along with the political power that necessarily tags along.  In an inflationary environment, those who are closest to the spigot will benefit the most, i.e. those who have/had the most inertia in the previous life (leading eventually to a conversion from the ether into real assets).

So, yes, there will be opportunity, but this opportunity is also largely a function of the wealth gap...  so, if you're not part of the club already, you might be getting an awkward pink slip.

Practically speaking though, for the plebs, it will offer quite a bit of opportunity to become part of the lower, upper class or upper middle class...  or, for the prudent of those already in these classes (the ones without mcmansions), to keep their positions/fortify them.

Also, if recent history is any indicator, any act of financial prudence will be met with swift and broad sweeping retaliatory measures...  thus putting leggings on any "opportunities" for those not in the club.  Ex. what happens to money sitting in the bank with rampant inflation; retail investing; startup businesses; et al.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 19:41 | 1904661 prodigious_idea
prodigious_idea's picture

Hey there MFL, about that 5 trillion, ME mess, blah blah blah:

You're entitled to your own sound bites, but not your own set of facts.  Perhaps some understanding of history before opening the pie hole next time?

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 21:57 | 1905046 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Although well-meaning, you are incorrect sir.  The actions of our government are controlled by outside forces none of which are benevolent.  Worldwide collapse is coming our way by design.  It is called "problem, reaction, solution.  Economic terrorism is coming to America orchestrated in by the biggest false flag in history on 9/11/01.  Meanwhile you are wasting time by blaming the puppets, hence playing right into the globalist's hands.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 22:06 | 1905091 vato poco
vato poco's picture

Wellll.......Barry IS a puppet, to be sure. But it must be admitted he's a *spectacular*, world-class, fuckup puppet - the kind that makes (either) Bush look competent. Hell, Barry makes Inspector fuckin' CLOUSEAU look good. He' s Jimmy Carter's long-hoped-for wet dream. ("Thanks to this dipshit, I *can't* go down as the worst ever!")

I'd say that warrants SOME blame, wouldn't you? Like an Iraqi/Egyptian/Syrian/Iranian/"Palestinian" soldier: profound fuckups, all. Spray 'n' Pray and Run Away, that's them. But the guy who's the SINGLE WORST one of all...the guy who shoots himself in the ass while 'attacking backwards to confuse the enemy'; the guy who drops the live grenade down his pants for safekeeping; the guy who schedules a coffee break for the entire countries air defense system at the same time....Yeah, that guy you can blame. I can't help but form a mental picture of the day Barry reports to Presidential Valhalla, expecting to bump Washington from the head table and to have his ass kissed forever. ("Nobel prize winner comin' through! Stand aside, whitey!") Then they all line up to horsewhip his sorry punk ass, one by one - even Carter, even Nixon - and he limps over to the broom closet to get the bucket for his new job for all eternity. Barry Soetoro: Presidential pissboy. ("Wait for the shake, asshole.") And what the hell, it ain't like he isn't prepared for that kind of work: he's bowed and scraped to every single (non-jewish) world leader he's ever met. Rumor has it he's planning  "kneeling" and "prostrating himself" for his next term. Puppet goan' make us all PROUD!!

His reward for this will be what it ought: An eternity of shining shoes, and freshening the drinks of the *real* presidents, and sleeping on the back porch, and shoveling out the stables & outhouses, and fishing meager tips out of his engraved pissbucket. This thought brings me comfort, and makes me smile. Hopefully that comfort will see me through the dark and probably bloody days ahead. Well, that and the gold/guns/ammo and food.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 21:51 | 1905025 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Barack Obama is puppet.  He replaced a puppet who replaced a puppet....  Get the picture?  The world is run by the international banksters and the world's mega-corporations.  Don't fall for the false left-right paradigm.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 01:00 | 1905680 DeadFinks
DeadFinks's picture

What kind of morality does it take to be a "puppet"?  Someone who can be bought is part of the problem.  He's is no puppet, he's a crook.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 15:55 | 1903784 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

Pimpco.  STFU.  Is anyone else tired of this guy?

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 15:57 | 1903792 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

But he speaks so well. I think the entire cast of Squawk Box wets themselves when he's on.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:09 | 1903841 knukles
knukles's picture

I wanted to see BQ break water when he was on the phone.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:34 | 1903974 infinity8
infinity8's picture

Is it just me that hears a little Elmer Fudd?

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:20 | 1904195 knukles
knukles's picture

Holy shit! 
That's the voice I been hearing!
Many thanks. 
I thought I was nuts. 

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 21:52 | 1905030 infinity8
infinity8's picture

Cwisis, bitchez!

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:07 | 1903826 treemagnet
treemagnet's picture

Count me in - talks out of both sides of his mouth.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:10 | 1903843 knukles
knukles's picture

He's got 2?

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:10 | 1903847 NuYawkFrankie
NuYawkFrankie's picture

Yep - he put the PIMP in Pimpco.


Tue, 11/22/2011 - 15:56 | 1903788 SDRII
SDRII's picture

El-Erian for President....of Egypt. Situation there may be more terrifying

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:03 | 1903809 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Two asians questioning an arab about what the chances are for an economic contraction in America.

The American Dream... being realized by Asians and Arabs worldwide.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 18:42 | 1904520 PolishHammer
PolishHammer's picture

Haha, nice observation indeed.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 15:56 | 1903790 sabra1
sabra1's picture

where's the pause button?

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 15:59 | 1903800 Peter K
Peter K's picture

Ken Langone was on ComedyNBC today.  Just before his piece ended, he was asked if the 2012 election would bring any change to the economic environment. He said that any change in the WH would change the business environment for the better. And I emphasize the word ANY :)

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:03 | 1903808 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

No danger there! The last time there was any change in the WH, they assassinated him.

Pretty much company men since then.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:03 | 1903803 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

bac has been literally nickled and dimed to death in the last few months and fast approaching the $4 handle - all system lock-down

i wonder what el-erian real job is - seeing his face is always on the msm's  A-List [poor pimco and allianz]

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:04 | 1903812 imsaul0968
imsaul0968's picture

For those of you who invest in an IRA or for long term goals, theres a better approach than buy,hold,hope. Stocks follow the economy so analyzing the economy, specifically the factors that are "leading indicators" and having exposure to equities only when the economy is headed in the right direction and avoiding equities in favor of safe haven baskets is a much more logical approach. And missing the major drawdowns is the only way to help ensure meeting your goals.  If you are interested in investing in a portfolio that tactically invests in equity and safe haven baskets via ETF's automatically, please email me at:

and I'll add you to the weekly market commentary & portfolio update distribution list.  Its free to add you and you can follow along our model and our views.  We have been RISK-OFF since 6/30 so have missed all this wicked volatility. Currently invested in short duration treasury baskets as flight to safety drives interest in our debt. 

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:29 | 1903934 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

Saul.  Shut The Fuck Up!  No one wants the bullshit you are selling.  You clutter up what is a perfectly brilliant internet site designed by Tyler and maintained by Fight Club.   Go Fuck Yourself.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:32 | 1903961 jomama
jomama's picture

go away, asshole.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:45 | 1904042 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Tyler ! Where's your bazooka ?

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 20:12 | 1904744 anyways
anyways's picture

Tyler, please remove the bug in the comment system, which prevents to click the up or down arrow, when the post starts in ITALICS. Thank you.

@saul: go and sell ur shit to the cnbc watchers.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 10:30 | 1906543 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

You can still red arrow someone by hovering your cursor above the green arrow and sliding slowly down, the green up arrow will get larger and then you move down till it is small again and keep going till the red gets bigger, you will still be over the bottom of the green but it will be a red down arrow you give when you click.  I just did it, it works. 

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 21:46 | 1905008 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

I have some free advice also.  Buy and hold only physical gold and silver with your incremental fiat federal reserve notes.  Anything, and I mean "anything" written on paper is worth the paper it is written on.  Thank you and please don't visit my website because I don't have one.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:05 | 1903816 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

US gasoline demand dropping, total miles driven dropping. 

The Fed's conspiratorial window-dressing about demand are debunking fast. 


Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:18 | 1903888 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Colorado Springs, huge military town, both major malls closing. 

Depression chance 100% confirmed.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:25 | 1903924 fuu
fuu's picture

Are the tourist shops in Manitou still open?

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:55 | 1904087 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I suppose they are, I dont go up there its full of witches.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 19:14 | 1904608 fuu
fuu's picture

That and hippies.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:45 | 1904036 Animal Cracker
Animal Cracker's picture

Do you have a link for this news?  All I can find is the ownership of the Citadel changing hands.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:55 | 1904090 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Ownership changing hands, yea back to the bank. I was reading about it in Sundays Gazette.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 18:10 | 1904426 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

the name of the company is not pimco. its pimpco.....pimpin ain't easy.......

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 19:45 | 1904678 seek
seek's picture

Similar here in Phoenix, I think.

My brother runs an auto parts recycling biz, basically sources used parts for rebuilders. This is at the very, very bottom of the economic food chain, when you can't afford to repair your car with parts from NAPA a whoever -- ie fixing a $800 used car with $10 used parts.

Normally his business is counter-cyclical, economy goes bad, people start skimping on parts and come to him.

His business was hammered to within a few weeks of shutting down after the '08 collapse, but slowly came back to about 1/3 of its previous level.

He saw things start tanking in August, and had to max out credit cards to cover October, he's toast. He networks with another supplier that offers a 10% discount if outstanding invoices are paid within the first 10 days of the month, and they always get preferential payment over anyone else in the ecosystem -- called them up, and they're toast too. For this to happen quite literally means there is no money available, and out here not having a functional car is an employment death sentence. I would imagine this means there's no cash for food, either.

Things are about to get very, very bad.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 21:42 | 1905002 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

I sought seek and I found.  Thanks for the info.  This kind of data is real not like the crap you get from the establishment corporate whore media.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 10:40 | 1906565 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Another point to consider is that unemployment numbers were rising a lot faster as small businesses across the country were laying off employees, as business shrank the owners and their families could run them without employees and had to in order to keep the businesses viable.  A lot of people (not here of course) see falling unemployment numbers as one of the "green shoots" of a stronger economy, that QE is finally starting to get traction.  I say that businesses have only burned through the low hanging fruit on the employment tree and that as small businesses close permanently it does not so much affect the unemployment data because the small business owners and their families don't qualify for unemployment. 

Here in this county I see every day small businesses folding up for good.  They hung on and battled it out but finally just did not make ends meet.  In this economy the model of small businesses is just not working any longer.

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 17:42 | 1904312 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

yes, and all the while, cars simply getting bigger and not really more fuel efficient


Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:08 | 1903832 The Swedish Chef
The Swedish Chef's picture

The political class needs to come together...Gemany has to decide wheter to save the Euro or not... Where is this guys brown shirt?

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:08 | 1903835 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

CNBS reporters love to say "Mohamed" to show they're hip. 

Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:12 | 1903852 knukles
knukles's picture

I like to say El-A-Rab.  


Tue, 11/22/2011 - 16:30 | 1903951 falak pema
falak pema's picture

don't be a racist, be more subtle; call him El-a-rub. that fixes it. Now he can erase debt.

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