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Mohamed El-Erian: US Economic Conditions Are "Terrifying", Recession Chances Are 50%
Something tells us that Mohamed El-Erian is aware of the bulls' last bastion of "growth" and "decoupling"- the dip in Initial Claims below 400K. Even so, his appearance on Bloomberg TV was full of sound and fury, and some quite memorable soundbites, starting with this one: "Let me tell ou what I find most terrifying: we’re having this discussion about a risk of recession at a time when unemployment is already too high, at a time when a quarter of homeowners are underwater on their mortgages, at a time when the fiscal deficit is 9%, a time when interest rates are at zero. These are all conditions coming out of a recession, not going into a recession." The Newport Beach dweller is spot on: the situation is getting worse by the day, and the only option left is to do more of what has already failed so many times, and which only makes non-dilutable transitory monetary equivalents that much more attractive (with the mandatory liquidation which may bring them to triple digits first of course).
Transcript from Bloomberg TV
On the U.S. going into a double-dip recession:
"I am worried. We've had two bits of unfavorable news in the last 24 hours. One you reported this morning, which is that we have less economic momentum than we thought we had - 2% growth as opposed to 2.5%. The second is that yesterday we had no policy momentum. We're worried about the concept of stall speed, that 2% growth may not be enough for an economy that still has to de-lever. We put the chance of a recession at one-third to one half, which is really high given initial conditions."
On policy makers in Washington, D.C.:
"[Policy makers] are totally off the track. It's not a failure to agree on medium-term fiscal reforms, it's also a failure to give air cover for other things that need to be done -- in housing, in the labor markets, in credit. We have no policy momentum. Let me tell you what I find most terrifying: we’re having this discussion about a risk of recession at a time when unemployment is already too high, at a time when a quarter of homeowners are underwater on their mortgages, at a time when the fiscal deficit is 9%, a time when interest rates are at zero."
On what factors could be driving a double-dip recession:
"This is a fragile economy. It doesn't mean we don't have strength, we certainly do - the corporate sectors are as strong as we have ever seen it in terms of balance sheets. We have incredible entrepreneurial spirit. But we're facing all these structural headwinds, and the big concern is the possibility of us being tipped over by Europe. Things in Europe, as you mentioned a few minutes ago, are getting worse, not better."
On solutions in the U.S.:
"Unlike Europe, the U.S. doesn't face an engineering problem - it faces a political problem. The solution is not an engineering nightmare. You can actually put it on paper and get it done. But it's been a political nightmare. What we'd like to see is the political class to come together and agree on the steps that need to be taken."
"As you have heard us say over and over again, Bill Gross has been saying it, I've been saying it, other PIMCO colleagues have been saying it -- it's structural in nature. We need medium term structural reforms to increase the growth potential and job creation potential of this economy. We can do it. This is different from Europe. Europe has both a political problem and an engineering problem. Our problems are small relative to Europe, but if we wait they will become larger."
On the S&P's statement that US rating is unaffected by the supercommittee:
"That is what S&P is telling us. We have to remember that S&P still has us on negative outlook which means unless things improve over the next three years, there could well be another downgrade. The ratings agencies in general are in a very tough position. We talked about at PIMCO's investment committee yesterday. They've been beaten up a lot, both for what they have done and for mistakes that disrupted the markets for a while. It is hard to be a ratings agency today. You have to read these comments in that context. They are under fire."
On Joseph Stiglitz's comments that austerity measures make the crisis worse:
"I think [Stiglitz] is right, in the sense that the muddled middle, where Europe has been, is no longer sustainable. The crisis that started in the outer periphery, Greece, not only has shifted to the inner periphery and the outer core, Spain and Italy, but it has also impacted France which is the inner core."
"Europe needs to make a choice if it wants to save the euro, and it should save the euro. There's only two choices: one is a full fiscal union, a political decision with a very large bill. The other [choice] is a smaller, less-than-perfect euro zone, which has political implications but has a smaller bill. That is a political decision that Germany must take. The quicker it takes it, the more likely it will be able to save the euro."
On the options that could save Europe:
"There are no easy options. That's why the process is paralyzed. Wherever the policy makers look, they see tremendous costs and tremendous disruptions. The tendency has been to do too little, too late. There is no costless way forward at this point, and that is a problem that all of us have to internalize and understand, that there are no easy solutions."
On Europe being the single biggest threat to the U.S. economy:
"Left to our own, we would muddle along with the risk of stall speed, but one thing we cannot cope with is the major shock from one of the largest economic areas of the world, Europe. Already we're seeing investors stepped back from markets because of the anxiety. The more that happens, the more dysfunctional these markets become."
On whether the Fed should implement QE3:
"I smiled when one of your guests said earlier that the Fed has been the only adult in Washington. That is true. It has been the only institution willing to take steps. As you pointed out, because the Fed has taken these steps, it has taken pressure off of the rest of Washington to do its part…Other agencies haven't stepped up to the plate. It is time for other agencies to step up. The effectiveness of the Fed is declining, unfortunately, day in and day out."
On what the Fed should do:
"Chairman Bernanke has made it clear and he's repeating it three times, saying that when they look at these unconventional policies, they recognize the benefits but there are costs and risks. What we call collateral damage, unintended consequences."
"[Bernanke] recognizes that that equation, that balance, is shifting from potential benefits to costs and risks. Looking forward, if they were to do QE3, they may get some benefits, but I suspect there would also be quite a bit of collateral damage and distortions put into the system that would take us years to overcome."
"[Collateral damage would be] pressure on the currency. What you will see is pressure on the functioning of markets, you will see people stepping back, because more and more non-commercial forces will be determining market outcomes. We will also see questions about the credibility of the Fed and the political autonomy of the Fed."
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Is the other 50% chance of armageddon?
And a 50% chance of just being plain old shitty and awful.
50% chance of Death by starvation, 50% of drowning in worthless FRNs. Hell, on a long enough timeline...
Gross and El Erian are socialists, period.
El-Erian states as one of his scary things being that "a quarter of homeowners are underwater". The true measure of if a home is underwater, which is if the homeowner needs to bring money to the table at closing or not, brings underwater homes to 50% of all mortgages. A 6% Realtor fee and other selling fees MUST be considered when measuring if a home is underwater.
Since TPTB love euphamisms so much, why don't we just refer to underwater houses as "land-based submarines"? Voila', problem solved.
well, I still have a job, so it can't be an apocalypse yet, right? lol
Fuck fiscal restraint; this sucker could go down anyway, so let's get as much dollars migrated to these pockets as possible before the lights go out
The more money that is printed, the more malinvestments are created, and the more pain the collapse will bring. It would be best to stop the malinvestments and stop the cheap money right now so there's not as big of a hole to climb out of.
Politicians don't solve non-problems, and like Trav said I still have a job, so there's no problem. They'd much rather line their and their criminal accomplices own pockets and expand the defence budget, again lining more pockets. Lets face it, unless Ron Paul gets voted into office or there is another crisis the deficit will continue to be >> 0.
Yes. And El Erian is hopelessly behind the curve and speaks in muddled metaphors and says nothing.
"US problems are only political..."
Oh, so US corporations don't pay taxes and don't invest their largest cash holdings, generated by outsourcing and offshoring and bailouts and FED RES $ via their internal and or associated "banks" and from stock and bond issuances i.e. debt and from cutting 25 million US jobs and pushing the remaining employees to work twice as hard... US corporations don't invest all this "hard earned" money in the US - for "political" reasons...?
El Erian, go home to Newport Beach and play with your billionaire friends. You're wasting everyone's time.
And turn off Bloomberg, Tyler.
"US problems are only political..."
I think Eureka knows what the above quote means, but I will spell it out for those who don't; It means that if the United States of America were to raise taxes on the wealthy, the United States of America's fiscal problem would be non-existent. We have plenty of money to fix our problems, and plenty of selfishness based greed and coruption to block that fix. The rich have forgotten that they are rich because of the labor of the poor. They need to grow up and give something back for a few years to get us through the crisis. Instead, the rich have been demanding lower and lower taxes over the last twenty years because their greed has clouded their vision as to what it takes to run a socially healthy and thus wealthy society.
As far as the supercommitte goes, a dollar in cuts for every dollar in tax increases would be a pretty good deal, and it is the intransigence on part of the part of the people blocking the tax increases that will destroy this country.
One of the difficulties inherent to written communication is the difficulty of determining the tone of the writer, and thus the true intent of what he's trying to say. Help a brother out here, Terco...were you being sarcastic? Or are you just incredibly stupid? Thanks so mucho!!
Calling someone you disagree with "stupid" does not reflect critial thinking, nor does it further the debate.
Just incredibly stupid!! Thanks for asking!!!
OH, so you were SERIOUS about that whole "Tax your way to prosperity!" bullshit that I mistook for sarcasm. Well, Daddy always said arguing with a fool was a waste of time, so you just have yourself a nice Thanksgiving, Turco. Perhaps you can pray that the poor starving North Koreans and Somalians will raise taxes soon, and thus end their decades of agony. And the Greeks & Italians, as well! Problem solved!
(contented sigh) Taxes. Is there ANYthing they can't do?
AMEN ElTerco, I have been saying this for 30 years. I have been saying this since I was a rich man under the Raygun regime and had to pay nothing year after year on more than $165k income living in one of the finer spec homes on a brilliant hill overlooking the Sonoma valley. It was wrong then and even more wrong now. I know that does not sound like so much now but it really was a lot then. Investing was easy then, you had a trust fund with a hundred million or so and family money of much more and accountants did it all for you, you could park it in bonds and have a safe return that would only double your money about every 9 years. No transaction fees, no taxes whatever.
It is now so much harder for the poor billionaires, they actually have to get off the fucking yacht once in a while and check in because now they have to risk something to keep up with inflation, if they do not they could find themselves out of caviar in a matter of just a few generations.
It really was sweet back then, big manse on a mountain looking down on all the fucking workers in Santa Rosa, plenty of coke and booze, wreck a car get another. Cops look the other way when a rich man is involved, they shrug and let the insurance people take care of it because they know if they arrest a rich man they will be looking for work the next day. Swimming pool heated in January for a party, 6 friends to ride along to your villa for a couple weeks in March in Jamaica. Go to the mall and not have to deal with poor people because every store recognizes you and what amounts to a personal shopper comes to tend your needs. Macy's was best at that. Neiman Marcus for lunch in the city with Mom, models would bring dresses to her while we had cocktails upstairs in the atrium overlooking Union Square. Of course, we had a card and there is no such thing as a limit on an NM card, if you have one you can afford anything they sell. In fact we had a shoebox filled with cards, some of my favorites were for the casinos in Nevada, man what a good time Nevada is when you have the buckage. Probably sucks for the people who live there though.
You know you are wealthy when you look down on Marin County as a bedroom community. You know you are wealthy when you understand that there are two kinds of people in America, those with liquid funds and those without. That the whole system is set up to make sure YOUR freedom is like a holy relic to which everyone prays, and who cares how they get along, it is enough to know that somehow they do. And nobody in your ruling class will ever mention the constitution, they do not have to because they are already as free as any human ever will be, and to mention it is to remind your servants they are not. Good help is hard to get at minimum wage you know.
I know because I have been there, I have met and rubbed elbows with TPTB. Recognized as an equal. Prospected as a match for debutants, but only by wannabe types because the real elites knew I do not play on that team. And then came the crash. Divorce. Of course after all those years I left with nothing but my clothes and the pink slip to my car, part of why gay marriage is held back in spite of popular support and rule of law, rich men do not want their lovers getting half of anything, bad enough their beard wives smoke them in court. But, I did walk out of it all because trips to the flower mart in the city to pick up a few hundred dollars worth of blooming glory so you can have a spectacular dinner party, or a boozy game of tennis on the tennis court/helicopter pad are wonderful, everyone should enjoy it, and believe it or not this nation is rich enough everyone could enjoy it, but how much fun would it be to have ultra wealth and power when everyone has it? Half the fun is making the 99% suffer to work for you.
I saw it then for what it was, a manipulating evil. It would have been OK if everyone who worked got in on it, but I have seen life at exactly the other end of the glass. I have also been utterly homeless and broke. Ever gone into a bar dead broke and acted like you belonged there so you could pick up a pack of smokes nobody in particular was watching? Ever lived in a national forest for two years because you had no other place to go? I have.
Now I am coming to the end of my life and I wonder why people allow themselves to be so fucked. It is not communism to have a minimum allowable poverty level and a maximum allowable wealth. But even if it were I would say nobody ever should be hungry, or homeless because of lack of education or work. If someone does not want to work then OK, but nobody should be cut out of life when they are willing to work. And the rich? No matter what system is ruling us, no matter what ISM you abide by there will always be those that have more than others and even the one with the most, they will always be the rich even if that is $100,000 rather than 70 billion. This is why I do not understand republicans, what is it they want? To be rich? Divide the wealth perfectly evenly and we would ALL be rich, by world standards we would still be the wealthiest place in the world and because it is shared we would solve so many problems. Not the least of which would be all the damned bitching from the right and the left.
Okay. I get it. El Erian is saying MAYBE THE SKY MIGHT FALL. This is the same guy who was predicting the immanent rise in Treasury rates because the Fed was doing QE 1 and 2. It turned out that rates fell and teh sky did not fall then.
Oh by the way on last check, the sky is not falling.
BRING ANOTHER BOGEY MAN PLEASE, This one is not very scary.
No, the sky isnt falling. But the economy IS fucked.
Nah, we only have a political problem, the pols are not doing enough to satisfy the big banks and funds. Once the pols toe the line our problem is fixed we don't have any problems like Europes unsustainable debt, nope.. 15 trillion tis' but a flesh wound..
by fucked do you mean that we are having a discovery process where a lot of people are finding out that what they thought was a productive job really wasn't?
Gonna be a lotta that goin around...
Lol!
never listen to his bs. He loves fed printing money. first look you might say it is because PIMCO got it ass kicked by underweight in treasuries and they want to prove that are not big idiots as they are. but deep inside, el erian and especially gross are socialists for sure if not left extremists.
Correct they want and expect QE3 just like gold bugs do....
"TURN THOSE MACHINES BACK ON!"
Trading Places (@ 2:17)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gekaEzqj5g
Sorry to disagree, but Socialism is right wing, reflecting higher government control. It goes, from left to right, anarchy, libertarianism, democracy, republicanism, socialism, fascism - reflecting government control over individual action.
"ratso"...Even I'm tough, as long as the light's are on!...Light's go out,
I find it hard to sleep...I just know that "BOGEY MAN" is coming.
Just hope you're not too proud, to stand in the food line with the rest of us 99%'s.
El Erian is saying "Our parent company, Allianz, is going to be on the ropes if the US doesn't weaken the dollar and throw liquidity at Europe." He's just using roundabout language. Everybody talks their book all the time. There are no neutral speakers.
Has anyone seen my son? He was supposed to be home after school to help me do some chores.
Mom, he skipped school today. He's watching Netflix in your basement closet.
where is Dr Paul Krugman's mommy? we already have his dad on here - Million Dollar Dumbass. he hasn't said much since he called for a turnaround in BAC at $6.08 lol
You may not have noticed but HamyWangr is back. MDB is off his lithium and has assumed his alter ego.
I think he said he was going to RiteAid to get his mommy some titanium Gillette razor blades....
Somewhat OT: Sorry to butt in, but does this bother anyone?
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-22/jpmorgan-said-to-near-deal-f...
Seems to me that account holders are taking it up the ass again while the banks continue to get rich... Someone tell me I'm wrong.
Naw. It's all good, site9. JPM is once again stepping up to help a fallen comrade, and will pick-up the slack to aid the markets--at a steep cost to its own bottom line, I'm sure. Thank God for the JPMorgans and their ilk!
I think that it was the "oracle of kypseli" that floated the notion a few days ago that US will sink Europe and buy their assets on the cheap
again
This is going to get sooooo ugly so fast.
I'm waiting for the US civil servant pensions to implode from a lack of MF Global being there to manage the theft properly.
Yes, you are wrong. I'm sure any "deal" involving JPM, MF Global, and LME has to do with God's work.
sarc off
No, it's not at all bothersome
It's fucking terrifying!
The whole fucking system has broken down.
This is a blatant conflict of interest, unstopped, unmitigated legally sanctioned theft.
Whatever they are, they are expert at talking their book - and influential.
Just common sence dictates that the chances of anything happening at any time are 50/50. Attorneys will also tell you that no matter what, chances of winning or loosing in court are 50/50. (First year of law school.)
With everything happening arround us chances of depression are more than 50/50.
As far as recession (non-technical) we are in one.
We love and respect you Mr. El-Erian, but be honest with us.
Between El-Erian and Taleb assing around with the pseudo-messianic concepts in finance, I'm pretty sure that it was a 50/50 chance that either one or the other would be discussing this.
That is not how it works :) They have a zero percent chance of talking about it until someone does, then they all do. It's like a pile of rice. :P
Does that mean my thanksgiving turkey has a 50% chance of surviving?
Kind of makes me feel like shopping - err - for something other than high gain frequency pulse modulating digital jammers and 12 gauge reload primers!
Owwwww dat's a really scary. kids.
Terrifying. Fucking terrifying. Caught at the end of a dead alley way with no way out being pursued by a 1000 zombies wanting to fist you while they feast terrifying?
Followed by a pride of really fucking hungry lions terrifying?
Actual battle conditions terrifying?
Shit your pants and throw up all over yourself terrifying?
With a 50% chance of a recession terrifying?
Whatthefuckintheworld is wrong with you people?
This is why a manager underpreforms benchmarks and peers.
That's fucking terrifying.
Loosing all your AUM, no fucking bonus pool to retain your best people, get fucking bent over badgered and harassed at clients and consultants at meetings terrified?
Get fired terrifying?
Terminal cancer terrifying?
Fucking stroke, heart attack terrifying?
With a 50% chance of fucking drizzles.
Jesus Christ on a fucking lolipop stick terrifying.
Jesus Christ on a fucking lolipop stick terrifying
Damn! I laughed afternoon coffee outta my nose!
I am no longer terrified of shitting my pants and throwing up all over myself. I have faced this fear and am stronger for it.
I simply shat a bit, over it now
Translation.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjQZNAfxaTw
Mo didin't get the memo?
Old St. Bernankio is on his way with a his sleigh, and everything's going to be fine this Christmas.
And look everyone! It's being pulled by gleaming green & white fiat!
You know Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln & Hamilton
Jackson, Grant, Franklin & McKinley
Cleveland, Madison & Chase, also...
...but do you recall?
The most famous fiat of all...
Woodrow Wilson the inflationary Fiat!
What he meant to say is that there's a 100% chance of a dollar collapse in 2012.
-John
http://johnu78.blogspot.com/2011/11/wikiup-shelter-tour.html
I was going to say depression, but I think you're more precise.
Never trust any financial advisor from Newport Beach.
Plenty of them there but most are focused on entertainment, etc...
.
Paid troll - blocking in effect.
Is that a veiled shot at Roth Capital and their endless stream of China Fraudcaps?
Terrifying = 50%? We can easily deduce that this is yet another jerkoff opining!
Terrifying = 98% min! Ergo SP500 to 850 and below = Terrifying. 50/50 is simply gambling black or red odds and has zero to do with Terrifying and zero to do with current market conditions.
So....without further ado.....the FUCK YOU du jour goes out to: Mohamed El-Erian!
Sheer idiocy!
And let's frame today's markets down a fraction of one percent as a good thing since the longer there is delusional unrealistic movement, there is going to be a much worse purge.
Tyler, thanks for posting this: El-Erian is getting better in his media appearances, and his book "When Markets Collide" is just as good as "The Big Short." Too bad he and Bill have absolutely no clout in DC.
They need a new partner. Maybe a something-Stein, something-Berg, you know. An Israel type. Then things would be Golden.
I just hope the nuke lands on me so I won't have to deal with the aftermath trying to restart the human race
I plan on fucking the human race back back to pre-collapse levels! Bring on the bitches!
Noah of the deluge.
Another 50% that Obama needs to deploy its civilian national security force to keep order and enslave the population to dig up the national gold reserves in the Andes mountains.
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=BE#/watch?v=AdF5TQIv1fU
So this is El-Erian's way of telling the Fed that he needs them to print more money, so his firm can continue to front-run the process. That way he can still get his son the GI Joe with the king-fu grip for Christmas. Sluts.....the whole lot of them.
Preferential treatment for Cantor Fitzgerald, why not Pimco?
Correct.
Double FUCK YOU El-Erian.
Armageddon out of here
I like the map that has all countries, regions and oceans labeled as "PIMCO" -- and we all thought the euro was the anti-christ's vehicle! </sarc>
I was thinking the same :)
Hey, RTM: you were first. Where's the gloating?
"at a time when the fiscal deficit is 9%"
huh?
9% of GDP.
Ahh that almost makes sense. Thanks!
per day...
Unless..... Neah, everything will be fine, 9% it will be.....
Newt Gingrich surges ahead. We are well and truly %$#&ed.
Well, since none of the clowns are believable enough to distract attention from Dr. Paul, time to roll out the nerdy policy-wonks.
Besides, he's a lady's man, not a lady-boy's man, so it really sets him apart from the field.
Ron Paul is owning this hard. Romney was not going to compete in Iowa and simply "give" it to his VP choice, hometown girl bachman. do a google search on Iowa primaries.
The problem is, Romney hired bachman for the last 30 years to make sure he paid less effective INCOME taxes (as a billionaire, with a trust fund at birth) than the typical working single Mom, like bachmans mommy. Does anybody seriously think with people losing their homes, the deficits out of control, that people are going to put in a president like Romney? Buffet acting as evil Mr. Scrooge is garenteeing his choice (Obama) gets in office.
You can not make this stuff up folks. Ron Paul 2012 or intrade goes limit up on Obama 2012 shares. I am screwed cause this is my lever up to get some money to buy gold.
In spite of being a lifelong (now former) democrat, I will vote for one republican in 2012, one I consider not republican but libertarian and American first, because as bad as the GOP is - and I would never vandalize my country with a republican vote - I am in spite of myself planning to write in Ron Paul even if he has dropped out of the race by then. The only way I would not write his name in is if he died before I got my ballot in which case I plan not to vote because every single one of the people running for the White House is either a fascist, a clown, a moron, or all of the above and Obama is the worst of the lot. And when the vote is cast I plan to march down to the registrars office and deregister as a voter in protest of the sheer futility and mockery voting has become.
Yo, dead people have won elections before, just saying. :>D
boiltherich :
your sentiment is typical of Dem disillusionment with GS's takeover of the donkey party. They own the Congress. So do like Rip VAn Winkle, go to sleep for twenty years; preferably on an island like ICeland, and wait for it all to blow over. By then the US will either be totally fascist or totally democratic. This crisis, having destroyed the middle kingdom, will only leave the edges to provide for the hobbit plebes and the Mordor plutocrats.
The word you are looking for is "SAVED".:)
The man with the most corrupt buddies wins!
That's what the Iranians are saying. +1
TeamDepends
Newt Gingrich surges ahead. We are well and truly %$#&ed.
We most assuredly are, as that is an AUTOMATIC Obama WIN.
As bad as Newt is, I would take him over the poser we have now.
I will NEVER vote for that Bottom Dweller! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newt
That would be like having Larry Kudlow as the Financial advisor to " Bill Clinton" ( 3rd term) , Putin style , via Hillary! Grid Effin Locked!
Gingrich sees a secular society as a "nightmare" and a "mortal threat to our civilization."
Funny how most of the GOP is irrationally afraid of Sharia Law being implemented in the US, but wouldn't blink twice to enact the Christian variety.
Hell some of them believed that God sent them on the presidential path. Didn't realize divine right of kings was en vogue nowadays.
Some think the US was formed as a Christian nation according to the founding fathers Christian beliefs.
These candidates are fucking delusional. Newt, the "historian" should know better. Jefferson wrote is own fucking Bible (he took out all the supernatural aspects) for Christ's sake!
Santorum concluded, “Our founders understood liberty is not what you want to do, but what you ought to do. That’s what liberty really is about.”
“How can you have judgment if you have no faith? How can I trust you with power if you don’t pray?”
Newt
Fuck, I need to move to one of those Nordic countries.
go pagan and read this on the original clash of civilizations, when a pagan warrior used to grill the Newts of his age on bar b q :
http://www.falakpema.com/buythebook.html
very relevant to our age. Remember the Templar in Norway? This is perfect antidote.
Then as now.
We went full pagan about two hours ago. The police standoff is going well.
I think you may have Newt confused with someone else.
In a 2009 News With Views article, Who Is the Real Newt Gingrich, Devvy writes: "I ask you - who gave us the Mexican peso plunder of $52 billion, the Brady Bill, GATT, NAFTA and on and on and on? Dole, Gingrich, Herger, Clinton, Gephardt, Bonior, Feinstein, Bush - the list goes on. In August of 1993, Henry Kissinger, kingpin of this global kingdom, stated in an article he wrote for the Los Angeles Times Syndicate: 'NAFTA represents the single most creative step towards a New World Order since the end of the Cold War.'"
Regarding what you say of Gingrich’s nightmare of secular views, Devvy continues:
Gingrich's activities outside Congress are equally distressing. Alvin Toffler is a New Ag (New World Order) guru and dear friend of Newt... Alvin Toffler's book, Creating A New Civilization: The Politics of the Third Wave, is a bizarre, revolutionary view and blueprint for the 2lst century. Gingrich WROTE the forward for this book - it's frightening and you should read both editions. These books became best sellers in Communist China because they mirror Mao.
On page 433 of Toffler, we read: "The founding fathers as the architects of the political system which served so well, this system of government you (founding fathers) fashioned, including the very principles on which you based it, is increasingly OBSOLETE and hence increasingly if inadvertently, OPPRESSIVE and DANGEROUS to our welfare. It must be RADICALLY changed and a NEW SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT INVENTED....
Referring back to the 1980 version of this book by Toffler and praised by Gingrich, I quote from page 227: "...the nuclear family can no longer serve as the ideal model for society.: The explanation then given for a solution is "more exotic possibilities" for the future family, i.e. "Homosexual marriages, communes, elderly people sharing expenses sex and families with several husbands and one wife."
Don't take my word for it, order Gingrich's voting record and read Toffler's book - both versions. –Devvy
http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd450.htm
More and more, Gingrich seems to fit what he has always been described as: the stupid's man's version of what a wise man would be like.
". . . and families with several husbands and one wife."
phew, that has to be the first time I've ever seen this idea even mentioned, let alone committed to print. hilarious.
and Newt's a tool of epic varietal.
Don't leave. We have to stay and fight these bastards for future generations. Newt is globalist prick!
BRIIINNNGGG ITTT. Let's have us a collapse!
Tipped over by Europe? Bullshit! We have a bigger problem and it is called Barack Obama.
As useless as he is, it's kind of hard to pin the blame on a puppet.
You think? Well lets start with the 5 Trillion that was added to the debt, the mess in the middle east, the end of drilling for oil in the US, the fuckin mess he has made on leading by-partisan efforts in Congress, the ruination of this banking sytem and allowing those same criminals to run the country... just for starters!! ok?? So, I blame him 150% for the mess we are in.
My memory is not so good but I seem to remember massive deficits, a mess in the ME, a broken Congress and criminal bankers running the country long before Obama arrived on the scene.
You're angry then that he hasn't fixed all these things, I take it.
Let them eat iPads
You're angry then that he hasn't fixed all these things, I take it.
Yep, we are, ANGRY that instead of trying to make them better, HE's made it 3x's worse.
And,has shown very little if any ways of trying to change it.
On the contrary, HE's added to it.(After TARP,when things stabilized), the entire house of cards should have been allowed to fail, as Capitalism init's real form is done.
HE knew exactly what he was doing, and HE is allowing it to continue.We would have been out of this mess, and about 10Trillion less in debt.
Pissed?.
Uh, yeah.
Your anger is warranted but very foolish, misdirected and childish!
what part of "Obama is a figurehead puppet" don't you grok??
aim higher.
Obama is a fucking crook like the rest of them. No different, in fact leader, figure head or not, of the crooks. What part of this don't ytou get?
Barry O has been calculating his every move and stroke of the pen according to how it will affect reelection possibilities. Just ask a gay man because we were the very first sector of his party to get thrown under the bus. If it were up to him don't ask don't tell would still be the law in the military. And he has the justice department enforcing DOMA like he was a Taliban mullah. That is just one example. But the way he sees the process it is better to lose 10-20 percent of his gay voters who will just stay home than to energize three times that many on the fringe far right who so rabidly hate gay people.
But Gingrich is the worst of the GOP lot in some ways, he is no more christian than I am and we all know it, at least Michelle B seems to actually old some of those xtian beliefs she espouses. Gingrich is just a money/power hungry hypocrite, spewing what the fanatical GOP base demands to hear and they do not much care if the belief is sincere as long as you tow the line and spew it. He might not have invented the politics of gridlock but he took it to new heights. He most of all among everyone on the right has put his own fortunes and the fortunes of his party before the good of the nation.
I have heard Mr. Huntsman speak and he strikes me as a very reasonable man, fair minded and genuinely putting America first. And Romney is not a bad guy really, just has no charisma at all, and one gets the sense that he has no opinion on anything other than what his apparatchiks tell him the polls are indicating this week. I can't for the life of me guess why he wants to be president, and anyway he is a Mormon, I will never vote for someone that claims to be a Mormon. Let them sit on their board of directors with their magic underpants but not be in charge of the nation which would rue the day a Mormon got real power.
Who signed the first bailout? Who signed TARP/TALF again? Who signed the first checks for unfunded wars.
I see we have another idiot who still beleives the voting and the two party system really works. Hey moron, both parties are funded by the same globalists. If voting lead to change it will be made illegal.
Are we going back to Lincoln, the romans, or before?
You and I know this battle is much older than that Machoman. Look at the bright side, times of great peril are often times of great opportunity.
Yeah... however, opportunity in this case is not an evenly distributed metric... basically, inertia in the previous life will carry forward into the next... in a deleveraging environment, those who were able to squirrel away enough liquid and semi stable assets will be able to amass huge amounts of real property, et al, for pennies on the previous dollar.... along with the political power that necessarily tags along. In an inflationary environment, those who are closest to the spigot will benefit the most, i.e. those who have/had the most inertia in the previous life (leading eventually to a conversion from the ether into real assets).
So, yes, there will be opportunity, but this opportunity is also largely a function of the wealth gap... so, if you're not part of the club already, you might be getting an awkward pink slip.
Practically speaking though, for the plebs, it will offer quite a bit of opportunity to become part of the lower, upper class or upper middle class... or, for the prudent of those already in these classes (the ones without mcmansions), to keep their positions/fortify them.
Also, if recent history is any indicator, any act of financial prudence will be met with swift and broad sweeping retaliatory measures... thus putting leggings on any "opportunities" for those not in the club. Ex. what happens to money sitting in the bank with rampant inflation; retail investing; startup businesses; et al.
Hey there MFL, about that 5 trillion, ME mess, blah blah blah:
You're entitled to your own sound bites, but not your own set of facts. Perhaps some understanding of history before opening the pie hole next time?
Although well-meaning, you are incorrect sir. The actions of our government are controlled by outside forces none of which are benevolent. Worldwide collapse is coming our way by design. It is called "problem, reaction, solution. Economic terrorism is coming to America orchestrated in by the biggest false flag in history on 9/11/01. Meanwhile you are wasting time by blaming the puppets, hence playing right into the globalist's hands.
Wellll.......Barry IS a puppet, to be sure. But it must be admitted he's a *spectacular*, world-class, fuckup puppet - the kind that makes (either) Bush look competent. Hell, Barry makes Inspector fuckin' CLOUSEAU look good. He' s Jimmy Carter's long-hoped-for wet dream. ("Thanks to this dipshit, I *can't* go down as the worst ever!")
I'd say that warrants SOME blame, wouldn't you? Like an Iraqi/Egyptian/Syrian/Iranian/"Palestinian" soldier: profound fuckups, all. Spray 'n' Pray and Run Away, that's them. But the guy who's the SINGLE WORST one of all...the guy who shoots himself in the ass while 'attacking backwards to confuse the enemy'; the guy who drops the live grenade down his pants for safekeeping; the guy who schedules a coffee break for the entire countries air defense system at the same time....Yeah, that guy you can blame. I can't help but form a mental picture of the day Barry reports to Presidential Valhalla, expecting to bump Washington from the head table and to have his ass kissed forever. ("Nobel prize winner comin' through! Stand aside, whitey!") Then they all line up to horsewhip his sorry punk ass, one by one - even Carter, even Nixon - and he limps over to the broom closet to get the bucket for his new job for all eternity. Barry Soetoro: Presidential pissboy. ("Wait for the shake, asshole.") And what the hell, it ain't like he isn't prepared for that kind of work: he's bowed and scraped to every single (non-jewish) world leader he's ever met. Rumor has it he's planning "kneeling" and "prostrating himself" for his next term. Puppet goan' make us all PROUD!!
His reward for this will be what it ought: An eternity of shining shoes, and freshening the drinks of the *real* presidents, and sleeping on the back porch, and shoveling out the stables & outhouses, and fishing meager tips out of his engraved pissbucket. This thought brings me comfort, and makes me smile. Hopefully that comfort will see me through the dark and probably bloody days ahead. Well, that and the gold/guns/ammo and food.
Barack Obama is puppet. He replaced a puppet who replaced a puppet.... Get the picture? The world is run by the international banksters and the world's mega-corporations. Don't fall for the false left-right paradigm.
What kind of morality does it take to be a "puppet"? Someone who can be bought is part of the problem. He's is no puppet, he's a crook.
Pimpco. STFU. Is anyone else tired of this guy?
But he speaks so well. I think the entire cast of Squawk Box wets themselves when he's on.
I wanted to see BQ break water when he was on the phone.
Is it just me that hears a little Elmer Fudd?
Holy shit!
That's the voice I been hearing!
Seriously!
Many thanks.
I thought I was nuts.
Cwisis, bitchez!
Count me in - talks out of both sides of his mouth.
He's got 2?
Yep - he put the PIMP in Pimpco.
El-Erian for President....of Egypt. Situation there may be more terrifying
Two asians questioning an arab about what the chances are for an economic contraction in America.
The American Dream... being realized by Asians and Arabs worldwide.
Haha, nice observation indeed.
where's the pause button?
Ken Langone was on ComedyNBC today. Just before his piece ended, he was asked if the 2012 election would bring any change to the economic environment. He said that any change in the WH would change the business environment for the better. And I emphasize the word ANY :)
No danger there! The last time there was any change in the WH, they assassinated him.
Pretty much company men since then.
bac has been literally nickled and dimed to death in the last few months and fast approaching the $4 handle - all system lock-down
i wonder what el-erian real job is - seeing his face is always on the msm's A-List [poor pimco and allianz]
Saul. Shut The Fuck Up! No one wants the bullshit you are selling. You clutter up what is a perfectly brilliant internet site designed by Tyler and maintained by Fight Club. Go Fuck Yourself.
go away, asshole.
Tyler ! Where's your bazooka ?
Tyler, please remove the bug in the comment system, which prevents to click the up or down arrow, when the post starts in ITALICS. Thank you.
@saul: go and sell ur shit to the cnbc watchers.
You can still red arrow someone by hovering your cursor above the green arrow and sliding slowly down, the green up arrow will get larger and then you move down till it is small again and keep going till the red gets bigger, you will still be over the bottom of the green but it will be a red down arrow you give when you click. I just did it, it works.
I have some free advice also. Buy and hold only physical gold and silver with your incremental fiat federal reserve notes. Anything, and I mean "anything" written on paper is worth the paper it is written on. Thank you and please don't visit my website because I don't have one.
US gasoline demand dropping, total miles driven dropping.
The Fed's conspiratorial window-dressing about demand are debunking fast.
Colorado Springs, huge military town, both major malls closing.
Depression chance 100% confirmed.
Are the tourist shops in Manitou still open?
I suppose they are, I dont go up there its full of witches.
That and hippies.
Do you have a link for this news? All I can find is the ownership of the Citadel changing hands.
Ownership changing hands, yea back to the bank. I was reading about it in Sundays Gazette.
the name of the company is not pimco. its pimpco.....pimpin ain't easy.......
Similar here in Phoenix, I think.
My brother runs an auto parts recycling biz, basically sources used parts for rebuilders. This is at the very, very bottom of the economic food chain, when you can't afford to repair your car with parts from NAPA a whoever -- ie fixing a $800 used car with $10 used parts.
Normally his business is counter-cyclical, economy goes bad, people start skimping on parts and come to him.
His business was hammered to within a few weeks of shutting down after the '08 collapse, but slowly came back to about 1/3 of its previous level.
He saw things start tanking in August, and had to max out credit cards to cover October, he's toast. He networks with another supplier that offers a 10% discount if outstanding invoices are paid within the first 10 days of the month, and they always get preferential payment over anyone else in the ecosystem -- called them up, and they're toast too. For this to happen quite literally means there is no money available, and out here not having a functional car is an employment death sentence. I would imagine this means there's no cash for food, either.
Things are about to get very, very bad.
I sought seek and I found. Thanks for the info. This kind of data is real not like the crap you get from the establishment corporate whore media.
Another point to consider is that unemployment numbers were rising a lot faster as small businesses across the country were laying off employees, as business shrank the owners and their families could run them without employees and had to in order to keep the businesses viable. A lot of people (not here of course) see falling unemployment numbers as one of the "green shoots" of a stronger economy, that QE is finally starting to get traction. I say that businesses have only burned through the low hanging fruit on the employment tree and that as small businesses close permanently it does not so much affect the unemployment data because the small business owners and their families don't qualify for unemployment.
Here in this county I see every day small businesses folding up for good. They hung on and battled it out but finally just did not make ends meet. In this economy the model of small businesses is just not working any longer.
yes, and all the while, cars simply getting bigger and not really more fuel efficient
The political class needs to come together...Gemany has to decide wheter to save the Euro or not... Where is this guys brown shirt?
CNBS reporters love to say "Mohamed" to show they're hip.
I like to say El-A-Rab.
don't be a racist, be more subtle; call him El-a-rub. that fixes it. Now he can erase debt.