MS CDS Soars As Cramer Says "Morgan Stanley Is Fine"

Tyler Durden's picture

Minutes ago Jim Cramer, reverting to his traditional inverse bank psychic, whose track record needs just one word of reminder, and that is Bear Stearns, told everyone that Morgan Stanley is fine. It may well be. However, we doubt it, as does the market, which just sent out the firm's CDS up another 32bps to 528bps, the widest since 10/13/08 having only traded wider than this level from 9/16/08 to 10/13/08. Critically for those looking at CDS not being as bad as during the peak of the crisis and gaining comfort from that - CDS did not trade gently to those extremes - it gapped unmercifully wider with incredible day to day volatility. Furthermore, for those talking about how illiquid CDS are and easily manipulated, we remind them that it is bonds that cracked first (a much more broadly owned and traded set of instruments) and only very recently has CDS started to catch up to the wide/risky levels at which bonds trade.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Next stop 1400! I hope they choke on their own puke, but that's just me...

Imminent Crucible's picture

Would this be the same Jim Cramer that said "Your money is safe in Bear Stearns"?

A Cramer endorsement is now the kiss of death.

Don Birnam's picture

As an aside, the body language interplay between Melissa Lee and Craymo can be at times rather amusing. If the camera is too quick, a once-in-a-while scowl can be evident, as well as the "Anchor Booth Lean" away from Jimmy when he is seated next to her; particularly during one of his rambling, spittle-specked rants.

strannick's picture

Crammer's reverse alchemy working its wizardry once again, and his 'such and such is fine' pronouncements with table banging -ala Bear Stearns- rings in certain doom. The only comparably, uncannily accurate contra-indicator analysis, is from Nadler on gold.

Ask not for whom Crammer's gong show tolls Morgan Stanley, it tolls for thee

sgt_doom's picture

I heard Cramer's also bullish on Italian banks:

Morgan Stanley (MS), which owns the world’s largest retail brokerage, is being priced in the credit- default swaps market as less creditworthy than most U.S., U.K. and French banks and as risky as Italy’s biggest lenders.


Manthong's picture

Does that mean they are a take over candidate for JPM?

DeadFred's picture

One bank to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them

theXman's picture

With John Mack gone, Morgan Stanley will survive this time. He probably sensed that end was near and it was going to be even a bigger challenge than 2008, so he bailed out the sinking ship. 

FMR Bankster's picture

History shows a wharf rat can't scurry off a sinking ship faster than a CEO can get out of a collapsing company.

Quinvarius's picture

He probably got paid a lot to say that.  Sometimes he gives honest thought to what he says.  Other times he is obviously being paid to schill. 

maxmad's picture

Or he just says what the Elites want him too? 

Quinvarius's picture

Yeah.  He has to pay his dues sometimes.  The elite will cash out his credibility like a piggy bank.  Gain trust.  Spend trust.  Find more trust.  Spend that trust.  It is the cycle of Wall Street fraud.  Kind of like Bush spending his "political capital" to further ruin the nation until it was all gone.

DeadFred's picture

His charitable foundation likely just got a big donation. Maybe his private account as well.

Blorf's picture

Kodak is fine.  They are up 70% today!

maxmad's picture

Yep because I know alot of people who want outdated instant print Kodak cameras for Christmas!

DaveyJones's picture

"fine" is one of those meaningless words that can mean I just won the lottery or I'm about to commit suicide.

Spastica Rex's picture

Yeah, I feel fine most every day now.

DaveyJones's picture

It is also very close to the word fineD which we will all be soon so they can avoid the word TAX. See camera tickets and other things 

SwingForce's picture

Q: Could you be wrong?

A: Have I ever been right? It could happen.

Q: Past performance is not indicative of future results. 

A: Thank goodness for that.

He's an ugly cheerleader...


duckhook's picture

I have no idea about MS insolvency and neither does Mr Cramer.If MS really wants to dispell these should release details about how much and what sovereign debt they own   and detalied lists of their hedges with amounts ,making sure to list the counterparties.If they trully have  hedges with solid counterparties ,then they are ok and Mr Cramer is correct 

mfoste1's picture

I think I can help you with your dilemma regarding MS solvency......THEY WILL BE INSOLVENT WHEN GREECE DEFAULTS....hope this helped.

sgt_doom's picture

Thank you, mfoste1, thank you....

Outlaw Of The Wasteland's picture

the jew is in the "market".  As always.

theotheri's picture

Tyler Hedge Hog.  You fucking cunt.  How can you allow this racist crap on your site>>>>>>>???????!!!!!!

Have you no conscience you god damn ignorant fool?????

Stoploss's picture


Sizzurp's picture

He said Bear Stearns would be fine as well.........ooops.

oogs66's picture

the bond market is far less liquid :D  too funny!

RobotTrader's picture

MS stock acting terrible today.

No bounces at all.

doomandbloom's picture

How does one differentiate between 'investing' , 'speculating' and 'gambling'?

Investment banks are not just 'market makers' ( a term which implies that they are middlemen, which i believe at some point technology will do this job), their role is to invest and make money.

My question is...why do we have to make money? why do we need to work?

Debugas's picture

'investing' is when you buy stocks for long to let the company to upgrade its productive capacity (upgrade machinery or optimize activities etc)

'speculating' is when you trade on inside information you get from your buddies-insiders

'gambling' is when you trade without proper information whatsoever

doomandbloom's picture

Can one invest on a horse race?

There is enough information available about owners, previous races, capability, breed, etc

batterycharged's picture

"investing" is what most people THINK they are doing with their 401k .

"speculating" is what insiders are doing contrary to most people's 401K

and "gambling" is REALLY what most people are doing with their 401K.

sgt_doom's picture

In truth, it's all about ultra-leveraged speculation and financial manipulation, thanks to all those naked swaps, often referred to as "unregulated insurance" -- 'cause if they were regulated, it would illegal.  (Why does everything so obvious always have to be stated???)

And since they've peddled trillions (actually, hundreds of trillions) of dollars of worthless credit derivatives, which they use as a base to do ultra-leveraging including naked swaps attacks, then it really would be correct to describe it as simply rigged, insider financial manipulation.

Over three years without mark-to-market,......

bye, bye MS.....

Homerpalooza's picture

What was the vol on the MS CDS?

bankerboy's picture

why don't u look it up yourself...

Homerpalooza's picture

Good answer. I rest my case.

Gordon Marock's picture

I recall a famous line from 'Evil Dead II' where the protagonist, Ash, is reassuring himself that he is 'fine,' and a voice from the void replies 'You just cut off your girlfriend's head with a chainsaw. Does that sound 'fine' to you???'

Debugas's picture

if you want to do big money - listen to Jim Cramer and DO THE OPPOSIT of what he advises to do

buzzsaw99's picture

death knell for margin stanley?

oogs66's picture

i bet within a week, everyone is talking about MS's exposure to China being a problem, though ZH put it up first

The Big Ching-aso's picture

It was Cramer I believe that coined the term, The Greater Fool.     However if you consistently follow his advice you ultimately tend to become, The Greatest Fool. 

At least he's consistent.



GrinandBearit's picture

Asshat Cramer also told people not to sell Bear Stearns stock in March 2008.

I have faded him many times throughout the last 4 years and I've done very well.

OCTOPVS's picture

BankerBpy what bank do you work for that you access to all of that jazz....CDS on morgan would be a great way for big players to hedge against a big long position....remember CDS is cna be used as a form of insurance.

azzhatter's picture

jimmy "cunt" cramer makin' the big call. What a piece of shit this clown is

batterycharged's picture

You can just say Bear Sterns, or you can Google "jim cramer housing bottom". It's quite funny.

Anarchus's picture

In the financial crisis of 2011, Morgan Stanley isn't playing the role of Morgan Stanley in 2008, it's in a death-spiral competition with BofA for playing the role that Lehman played in 2008:  the major collapse that (almost) sank the other ships.

In 3Q 2007, Countrywide was poised to star in the role before BofA stepped in with its initial $2 bil. investment and then in 1Q 2008 Bear Stearns thought it had the lead nailed down until Jamie Dimon and JP Morgan stepped in at the last moment . . . . . . . . . then Lehman turned out to be friendless in mid-Sept 2008 and the tidal wave rolled in.

Keep your eye on MS and remember the USS Lehman Bros.  This October, I think MS is even more the coal mine canary than BofA.

MGA_1's picture

Too Big Too Fail - the fed will come to the rescue if necessary.

Hephasteus's picture

I guess the lesson here is don't fight the silver liberation army. You'll get knocked the fuck out.