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Munk Debates Live: "Has The European Experiment Failed?" - Niall Ferguson And Others Dissect Today's Most Critical Issue
Today's most exciting piece of financial analysis and debate has been conveniently saved until early evening, when courtesy of BNN's "Munk Debates" we will get a great discussion on the number one topic of the times: whether the European experiment has failed. Arguing for the argument will be famed historian Niall Ferguson as well as Josef Joffe, while the contra side will be defended by Daniel Cohn-Bendit and Peter Mandelson. Courtesy of BNN: "In the sweep of human history, the European Union stands out as one of humankind's most ambitious endeavors. It encompasses half a billion people, twenty-seven member states, twenty-three languages and an economy valued at over $15 trillion. Modern Europe's stunning achievements aside, its sovereign debt crisis has shaken the world's largest political and economic union to its core. Can the federal institutions and shared values of Europeans meet the challenges of debt crisis that are as much political as economic? Or, are Europe's current woes indicative of a series of deep structural faults that will doom the European Union to breakup and failure?"
h/t cate_long
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YOu destroy a currency by printing it. If the EU printed nearly the same amount as the Fed, there would be no issues in Greece at all.
Similar to the gold standard; what is wrong with the Euro is what is right with it. We are seeing that unfold right now.
KING EURO
King Bidgood's in the bath tub and he won't come out! There is only one solution: Gold, gentlemen. And silver (but you can't carry a lot of it with you).
http://comparegoldprices.com
Socialism + Fiat Currency = Failure 100% of the time guaranteed.
Yet the insanity continues unabated....................
In the United States, we have "Are you Smarter than a Fifth Grader?" "River Monsters" is also quite informative.
Our great Empire is dying.
http://www.planbeconomics.com/2012/05/25/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-roman-british-and-american-empires/
The Frenchie makes me sick for being ... so French
Munk Debates Live: "Has The European Experiment Failed?"
For the love of freaken Pete and all that is wholly......the answer is.......YES!
Turn out the lights. Padlock the door. Go home.....it's OVER!!!!
Tune in next week for the follow-up debate, “Causes For the Failure of the American Experiment”.
FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING *IS* THE CRISIS!
Exactly. How dense do you have to be to not see it has failed. To ask the question is to pretend the emporor does not have clothes.
The maggots already are crawling out of the corpse and still the MSM wonders if CPR is possible.
no better way to create income inequality than statism- in any of its forms.
I would STRONGLY urge you to view Chalmer's presentation. It's about an hour lang and is so prophetic in it's content it is scary. Milestones
insanity cannot be stopped
you make it sound like a problem...
Govts can't be Socialistic without fiat currency. That's the experiment that failed.
Michael,
It's corporatism or as some might call it: crony capitalism or socialism/communism. Big fail.
Big win for big government, big globalist central banks and any big religion/s that would deliver ignorant votes to the status quo.
George Orwell was a visionary. He only got the date wrong in 'Ninety Eighty Four'. You want to see a picture of humankind under its present trajectory: think of a boot smashed down on the face of humankind.
The filthy two-faced lying back-stabbing psychopaths of the Trilateral Commission want you to be a debt slave or dead.
See the boy or girl in prison for pittance whilst the likes of Jon Corzine and Dominic Strauss Kahn enjoy every protection from their pals in high places whilst raping and stealing from anyone they like.
JP Morgue and Goldman Sacks are agents of this corporate psychopathy which chooses people like Mandelson to put a smiley face on their plots, and schmooze the unknowing, unwary ordinary person, trader, business.
Michael,
I don't know what your definition of socialism is, but you should lead an "anti socialist" party. Wait a second...
Yes, its that simple. Why do so many (including a lot of Zhedgers)not get it?????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMcNY8yTvx0
Ferrari 599 GTO fatal crash with TaxiChinese national Ma Chi sped through a Singapore stop light in his $1.4 million Ferrari 599 GTO crashes into a taxi killing the driver and Japanese passenger in Singapore. Wife asks who is the surviving female passenger.
What's with all the dash cams "over there"?
It seems that in some places the insurance fraud is so bad (staged slam on brakes or jump in front of slow or stopped car) folks are putting dash cameras in for protective evidence.
Might apply in this case.
Google "dash camera insurance scam" or similar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZJjDLnZ5ZA
OMG! That's what happens when you give newly rich peasant an expensive Ferrari. RIP the folks in that taxi. I hope the driver of Ferrari burns in hell.
Being the custodian of the world's reserve currency, the Fed helped export the destructive worldwide economic boom period. That easy, or "hot" money, flooded the world, helping to induce countries and people borrow more and more when they really had no business doing so. The money was malinvested.
Now we're living with the consequences of those malinvestments, which is a very painful thing.
Trying to hide them and cover them up only encourages even more malinvestment and discourages the liquidition of those that should be liquidated.
We're throwing good money after bad.
We're also encouraging the EU to follow our destructive example.
I thought this nonsense started in Europe and was exported here via the Royal Institute of International Affairs' connection to the Council on Foreign Relations, otherwise I agree with what you said.
There have been several attempts to unify europe starting even in roman times.
There will be several more attempts I predict
Increasing integration is probably inevitable in the long run
Hail Caesar!
HAIL CAESAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IIAdHEwiAy8
While you may be right in the looong run, events do not proceed in a straight line. We are at what could be the end of this epic attempt. I think it is generally the right idea, but it has been implemented with too many flaws and corrupted beyond its raison d'etre.
I agree.
This retrenchment as Soros calls it will be epic. It will move beyond mere economic retrenchment and change the character of societies.
Our modern age of innocence may be over. I believe a rougher, harsher, but more realistic cycle is coming
Soros: first the British Pound, now the Euro.
you're talking about the EU? or the NW0?
which of these processes is trumps?
and which one will continue? the one that isn't flawed and corrupted? is one more generally the right idea than the other?
which of these speakers is non-NW0?
propaganda-wise, maybe some of the feeling about the EU can be transferred so the next NW0 ass-fuk won't corrupt the nouveau raison d'etre
cycles may be useful for some things; how events proceed may help; but don't let the propagandists put you to sleep about what events the NW0 is introducing into your processes, and mine, and ours
this "debate" is not real to me; but then again, i didn't watch the fuktards, either; the EU is a front for the banksters and their pols and the MIC; so yes, it is corrupt, and so are the more powerful interests working thru it who will now get what they want here
in this sense, there is no epic attempt ending; germany is about to get conquered financially is all, and these guys are part of a super trolling effort to make sure that the few people in germany who understand the dangers can not and will not amount to anything, politically. again
they are being preemptively discounted here; opinion will do that, ya know? what's the use? monk frames the debate; everyone is NW0
aren't you?
Personally i dont think it will matter who frames the debate. I dont think there is any way to control the ending of one era and the start of a new, even if it takes a hundred years and is recognized only in hindsight
nope! my ideas won't matter at all to you
if you think some 'era' is ending, and something new is beginning, perhaps that is is a religious belief of some kind or an academic viewpoint?
again what is ending?
if you just want to state your belief sytem, that is fine
apparently you know what you are talking about; and soros agrees with you; however, i am talking about present-day banking and political power and germany's decision, very soon about wtf is gonna happen, not epic entrenchments, ages of innocence or characters of society; i am talking about germany getting "handled" by the banks to help with their debt pyramid maintenance
that is also exactly what i mean by framing the debate; you guys can go on about what you think is happening in terms of hegel as far as i'm concerned, or islam. different glasses over the eyes dept.
but do you care about this? does it matter to you what happens in your world during 2012? you may be very high up in the ivory towerism of education; fine; you go to your church; i am not orthodox in your world, and your opinions (yes, these are opinions) do not matter in mine; they serve no function; they are, simply, useless to me in my work
that an era is ending is a belief, not a fact
gSachs is a fact
the squid doesn't give a damn what you believe as long as you don't interfere with it; that's my point; take all the time you need; toss off another century; be my guest
Wow lots of high fallutin words for someone that has probably never met an employee of GS. Just another idiotic conspiratorialist.
Ive spent the last 2 decades working with high ranking members of all these banks. Ive met with a Rothchild and still have all my fingers. And if their was an Illuminati Id be one.
All of you need to take off the tin foil hat and realize this is an epic cacophony of incompetance that is causing all of this NOT some grand 500 year conspiracy. Governments simply went to far with what was a good solution for the 1930s and hit the Keynsian endpoint. At the end of this we will simply realize government and central planning are the problem. We will deregulate and decentralize and we will all ne better for it.
If course their will be alot of pain first.
If a union is desirable, let the free market do it. Let the people of Europe do what is best for themselves. Lower regulations and free up trade and the people will integrate (or not) organically.
Is this asshole ever going to stop talking and let this shit begin?
EDIT: This is terrible. The only one who'se coherent is Ferguson.
EDIT again: Ok, this is getting good.
Err, Napoleon?
Err, Bunny?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg&feature=player_detailpage
"Peace in Europe was about Nato" Haha. Nato is the next experiment to fail.
Nato lost it's raison d'etre in '88, after the Warsaw Block got dismantled. Ever since it's solemn purpose was being a screen for pushing the expansionist policies of the west.
No wonder it's acronym is translated as North-Atlantic Terrorist Organization...
You can't make to War when you're broke and never bothered to buy weapons. Guess who they're going to turn to for help.
I'll skate board through this!!!
http://vimeo.com/10555652
Mandelson is a two-faced slimy bastard of a man. We British f****** hate the tw**
Reagan proved that deficits don't matter.
Do we have to go over this again every time?
When everyone prints nobody can get in trouble
What he said was "Deficits don't matter in MY administration"
When debt regularly grows slower than the economy grows, such levels of debt growth, i.e. deficits, can be sustainable. Duh. Nothing retarded about that.
In fact if the government consistently grows slower than the economy grows, and government deficit growth is always kept slower than economic growth, not only the debt, but also the government, can eventually become vanishingly small, an amount that could be paid off in a snap. It isn't idiotic to point this out.
The idiotic thing was to let deficit growth and governement growth outstrip economic growth. Such deficits matter enormously, because they grow to become so big as to never be payable (at least in real terms).
you forget that public debt is ONLY one side of the coin. WHat Reaganomics begat was the PRivate debt monster of RISK economy, outsourced to boot!. Now we are in funny money land beyond redemption, as totally opaque and unregulated, and the public debt is just the socialisation of the private spiggot gone mad!
Step 1 revenue equals public spending Step 2 increase debt Step 3 revenue covers some spending and interest Step 4 increase debt Step 5 revenue covers only defense and retirement and interest(usa) Step 6 increase debt Step 7 revenue covers only retirement and interest (see japan) Step 8 increase debt Step 9 revenue only covers interest Step 10 ENDGAME It's math - Everyone prints, everyone fails.
and so the propaganda machine rolls on
ParadeMagazine this sunday?
how many nations? 27!!!
and people? half a billion? wowee!
failed? failed? who can shoot this libertyValence?
look at the people paying attention! how intelligent and well-everything they appear to the camera and thus, to you
a debate! what is best? what is reasonable? what is fair?
what will people decide the germans should do? watch the political cover being shaped for angela & TPTB; debates about the EU?
tyler is postulating an "event" and then a "cave" by the ECB and germany; i'm in! i'll stick w/ mrD here, myself; so i see this as prelim to the "event" and the "cave"
interestingly, i look atop the page and see a zH piece by PhoenixCap with this intro: Put another way, those Greek bondholders who DIDN’T go for the Second Bailout, just got their money back at 100 cents on the Dollar (compared to those who DID go for...
again, i'll stick w/ tyler; he is the top pilot for these waters, imo, and what he is saying seems cogent2
The crumbling of Europe is nothing more than a continuation of the demise of socialist/communist ideology. China was first, the USSR followed, and now the European experiment with socialism-lite is hitting the wall.
TROLL ALERT, BiCheZ!
i give you "Bacon":
- member for: 1 year, 32 weeks
- post (in toto, Toto!):
05/25/2012 - 19:48 2464047 Bacon The crumbling of Europe is 10/18/2010 - 21:30 660059 Bacon archivedSome people should stop at 2......just stating the obvious.
i think he's a reagan/thacher guy, not that there's anything wrong with that...
he mighta just been in prison, or making a film or something...
maybe he's into this guy?
Francis Bacon {1561–1626} (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)welcome back, Bacon!
The problem Bacon is that the US bought into the same system. The Great Society, Medicare/Medicaid, Commrade O Great New Hope.
We are broke too. We are just as far along the great Keynsian Endpoint as Europe as a whole. California and Illinois are our Spain and Italy. We are lucky not to have a Greece or Portugal.
We do however have a better more freedom loving more entreprenuerial base from which to recover after we hit the zero poimt. Even if Facebook is only worth $10 a share, what has Europe created that equals AAPL, Google and FB in the last 10 years?
Asia is a different matter. They are surprisingly innovative and hardworking.
Dominoes comes to mind here.
Peter Mandelson, smooth and duplicitous as his hero Keynes, is known in Britain as Lord of Everything, with all the titles gifted to him by his New Labour and his EU masters - those friends of Russian oligarchs who robbed their own nation, as the modern political class do now by privatising gains and socialising losses for their Big Brother government new fascists, and their globalist central bank cartel old feudalists.
Stop the looting. Start the prosecuting.
Kinda reminds me of Harry Reid. Might be his effete mannerisms.
j...
Mandelson is the lipstick on a pig; a very smooth operator. Don't be fooled by his effete manner. He is the closest pal of Russian oligarchs, and the Rothschilds, and Gaddafi Inc., much like Tony Blair, now employed by JP Morgue, but claiming to be a 'socialist'. Liars, Blair and Mandelson; typical of the new elite in big government and biggest banks; the Trilateral Commission pets.
Our Armed Forces are sent on endless war, being lied to by these fraudsters who care nothing for the common person.
Keynesian's theory/hypothesis equates to pure [inflation] expansionism. Let's juxtapose this theory to Astrophysics's via general relativity of a 'Monetary [Earth the Fiat-Frontier] Cosmos'? Inflation has a finite boundary in which exponential expansion of money can replicate itself to infinity as the monetary [CB's et.el.] universe has for millenniums *{[we are just an existential extension][~15 bl yrs/ experiment?], thus eventually collapsing back upon itself for lack of energy/ mass? Diminishing 'time' **[C-x] where Keynesian's [Einstein's?] gravitational boundaries create a failed cosmological constant,... or as Hubble theorized - the Universe would expand to the point where time [money creation] would move faster than the speed of light - it would virtually be a monetary universal expansion that we would find ourselves not knowing the future nor the past, but rather in a time-warp of parallel [monetary quagmire?] universes [sound familiar?]? Why,... because emphirical multi-dimensional data would be quasi non-existent [worthless energy lacking mass w/o time factor] fiscal phenomenon reorganization, as innately simplistic - that of a casimir [effect] deflected financial paradox that our monetary organic/ carbon cell-system consumes our fiat atmosphere in which we presently negotiable in vain!
Summary: Keynesian logic is but a crutch holding up a corpse,...
jmo
Ps. btw just musing ???
Yes, earl, we are just musing here.
Meanwhile, starve the beast. Only keep enough money in a bank to pay regular bills that cannot be paid in cash. Withdraw all else.
Best wishes to you and yours. We shall prevail. This is our land and way.
Correction: Jewish oligarchs that robbed the Russian nation. Most recently, one of them bought himself a UEFA Champions League trophy with that loot money
The European economic union makes sense, but the monetary union does not. The Brits and the Swiss knew this from the git go.
Eh? Is that like the native Americans said they were custodians of the land and no one could own it, but were swindled out of their world by the lies of money changers?
My dear, we are not in Kansas anymore. This hateful new world order promoted by the paid shills of the Trilateral Commission seek to enslave thee and me.
Local community, land, gold, silver...this is our only protection.
Don't forget the Swedes! King Olaf rides at dawn!
Say hello to a rising US Dollar folks. Thank the Euro for that one.
http://bullandbearmash.com/index/usd/daily/
Thanks OG. I like that site.
Ferguson is such a smug and pompous tool.
They all are.
Alright~ I'm sitting here watching, "CNBS" and " Michelle Ca'doucho Cabrera" is taking China apart. ( She is hosting Kuklows show)
China might be a train wreck, BUT THEY HAVE $3 Trillion in F/X reserves! China has roughly 1.4 Trillion $ in treasuries alone.
This election year "blame game" crap is a joke! If china unloaded that paper, a roll of "ASS WIPES" would be worth a round trip ticket on " AMR" /sarc! Come on CNBS Idiots! You were pump/dumping every piece of crap "SHILL GAME" there was a month ago!
Lay off the { FacePlant} CNBS!
Yen Cross.
Think of Sun Tzu, Charlemagne and George Washington. Never intervene when your enemy is making a mistake. Let them get on with it ;-)
Europe is tearing itself apart again in its time honoured way.
Well Spoken. +1
Yen,
Your people and mine will always be friends; sometimes critical friends, like family. This is our nature. Politicians come and go. Banks come and go. We the people go on, and on and on...
+1 to you too :-D
Today's most critical issue is whether GROWTH has failed. I think it did about August 15, 1971.
Perpetual growth is impossible (...infinite growth on a finite planet with finite resources...) and the financial system of the 'west' is utterly unsustainable (nothing to do with D or R, with lib or con, or with Keynes or Austria). The system itself is unsustainable and its now worse than it was in late 2008.
The purpose and history of the EU is brutally simple: to stand opposed to the Anglo Saxon menace France and Germany needed a united front. During the first half of the twentieth century it was the Anglo Saxon powers that exploited to maximum profit and power the division between these two Great Powers. Clearly in this context the EU is currently a complete failure...the irony being of course "it was on their perceived cusp of victory" courtesy of the collapse of 2008. Having said that up until this point it has been an extraordinary success. Leaving aside hubris however (there's enough of that to go around for everyone these days is there not?) the loss of the EU being a force for growth and stability and in fact being a force for the exact opposite makes "the problem" far too obvious does it not? Not that the USA is any "shining city on the hill" here either of course. "In Europe there is cleavage...in America fissures." I vote for cleavage!
Tsk. Your grasp of European history is weak, and your hatred of the U.S. is evident.
Germany and France fought more wars than any other continental nation. They still do. See the gap between Hollande and Merkozy.
It was a very bad day for the U.S. when European financiers regained the land they coveted with the founding of the Federal Reserve Board in 1913.
tis true "i like a fair fight" as well. by all means let us debate "my grasp of European History." Shall we start with the invasion of Normandy and "the machinations of the Trilateral Commission behind it all"?
It's so funny when people say, 'Anglo-Saxon', implying there's some evil conspiracy to rule the world. The only conspiracy is a chance following of a doctrine of common sense, efficiency, democracy and meritocracy in the anglophone nations and their derivatives. Banking aside (which is a huge mess of unchallenged vested interests), which was only tolerated by both political parties, on both sides of the Atlantic, because it bank rolled the stupid addiction to welfare; I'll take Anglo-Saxon work ethic, rule of law - juries!!, and future prospects any day thanks.
Hasn't this whole sorry European mess just proven that once again, Socialism, big-government central planning and Europe are all failed ideas.
little things little minds ; go revise the consequences of 1° exorbitant privilege 2° Vietnam War n great society 3° Petrodollar hegemony and "our money your problem" 4° Thatcherism Big bang + Reaganomics deregulation 5° NWO and military hegemony 6° ZIRP/CHina Outsourcing/ GL St repeal + global banking synthetic pump 7° GWB War on WMD Irak + Terror bashing in ME 8° 2008 collapse and Tarp+QE+LTRO aftermath imposed by banksta cabal.
If you have any sincere knowledge and appreciation of the time line thread above you would not be so glib about "Who us Anglos in CIty/WS???!!! What did we do? It's all Greece's fault", type denial and blatantly imperialist and false logic.
This is all about anglo saxon capitalism collapse; a derailment of a strategy, planned, prepared over thirty years to create a US-ANglo financial hegemony based on RISK asset post industrial clap trap, pumped up and now gone down the shute, in dire overblown disarray going down the roller coaster without a brake. And I won't add to the addition the scam with Oil monopoly legacy of Brit shenanigans since 1918 + US shenanigans since 1945+ which have ruined that region to an extent which could be stamped and delivered as genocidal power play.
So go sing Rule Britannia/Us liberty and SIegfried line villainy for all you will. Your Brit elite is sucking the toe of Pax Americana Uncle Sam and you know it, since 1979 with voracious appetite. Tailor tinker sailor spy, it all ends up in WHite hall corridors of power, the white man's burden now soooo alarmingly bloated in City sin, you could float a whole navy of Oligarchs on it like on the Titanic, and down the Thames to the Olympic games. Good luck with your aircraft of graft carrying plutocrats.
The Anglo Saxon's are consuming (trade deficit) while most everyone else (including the Euro area in aggregate) is producing ... you can call it smart, I'll call it devious ... a result of work ethic I think we can both agree it is not.
a loaf of bread for a days wages, coming to a town or city near you soon USA. Wake up. Turn your dollars into food while you can. Feed the squirrels in the back yard over winter, might make a delicious Christmas meal come December to remember.
Lord Haw Haw, I presume.
I vividly remember the "euro experiment" , as I was in Australia for the 1999-2000 "Millenium Partying". That was the same year the Aussies started their "GST". We all laughed about the euro { experiment} at a party in Cairns. It's funny how a decade, is what a century used to be.
If the NWO kleptocrats wanted to pull off their totalitarian global takeover they should have done it in 2008 when they had a betting chance. Now too many people have come out of their comas and have created too much opposition. The only chance they have at this point is either WW3 or a false flag event at a level we have not seen yet. Prepare yourself because they haven't spent 80+ years preparing just to let the serfs win...
The new world order promoted by the Trilateral Commission and all the national politicians in the West which it employs are running scared because their globalist central bank cartel is blowing up their plots. That's why the likes of Peter Mandelson and Krugman are working so very hard to herd the 'believers' among their pretty paid media and academic pets.
See bank runs for evidence that the common person is not as stupid as the bank, political, media elites and Trilateral Commission would like.
Why have the Kroog-man and Mendelssohn when we have you instead!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4tDYMayp6Dk
a match made in heaven if you ask me!
I hate that fuckin tune
'disabled' 'vet',
You are shameless in your fake name and ruthless manner, cowardly pet.
Well said tahoe.
The one thing they didn't do though, was ask people like me if this NWO bollocks was alright and fair by us.
They are going to have to ask us plebs at some point, and my guess is that it will be a very violent answer. It will be if the cunts knock at my door anyhoo.
Someone is arguing for a Federal government. Arrest them.
I have a curious question for the forum? How would Greece "Monetize" their initial exit from the E/U, from a liquidity standpoint?
Would they issue IOU's, Force electronic transactions, stamp euro notes as Drachmas, Ect... Any thoughts?
Hard to say but it would sure be entertaining to watch!
Gold backed Drachmas are out of the question I presume?
Greek gold was hypothecated; gone, like the client funds of MF Global. Interesting that Germany refused to put up its gold as collateral about a year ago when the IMF con artists and baliffs still had some sway.
Yen,
Greece will go bust, and die. There will be no credible IOU from the ECB which already showed its hand by keeping its money and foisting losses on local law bond holders. Greece will return to its former local currency while its political elite enjoy every privilege of euro and EUSSR largesse.
Current European Tax Rates
United Kingdom
Income Tax: 50%
VAT: 17.5% TOTAL: 67.5%
France
Income Tax: 40%
VAT: 19.6% TOTAL: 59.6%
Greece
Income Tax: 40%
VAT: 25% TOTAL: 65%
Spain
Income Tax: 45%
VAT: 16% TOTAL: 61%
Portugal
Income Tax: 42%
VAT: 20% TOTAL: 62%
.....and Progressives in the states want to raise taxes.
I love how the VATs all started out small in all of the above countries, and kept creeping up and up - and will continue to creep up and up.
Fucking assoholic political lying cunts......
By contrast, the flat tax countries all have surpluses, none of the problems that the above countries do, and have no issues with bailouts, bullshit, or lying central bankers.
Ronnie Lane's slim chance- Done this one before/Flags and Banners
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsJdtQaIbhY&feature=relmfu
.
"Last night I was woken by my cry
Had a dream just as plain as you and I
Saw the morning sun on a woodland in the spring
Still hear the echo crashing through the trees
Oh when I saw you down I fell upon my knees
You and I we were wearing Southern Grey
I called to you but I used another name
I beat the ground and I cried out in your pain
Through a scarlet door I watched you slipping away
And your brother's helpless prayers were all in vain
Last night I was woken by my cry.."
I joined too late to watch the entire debate. Does anyone have a recording of the livestream and could post it for us who missed it?
Sorry, no joy.
http://www.munkdebates.com/Debate-Videos
This is for premium members only. Could someone please post a link accessible for the ordinary people?
This was likely more entertaining than the movie I am going to go watch, but it shows how disfunctional Europe is. They have to allow banks to go broke. They need to guarantee deposits and wipe out capital in a FDIC like receivership with deposits being transferred over to healthier banks. They cannot save the entirety of a 50 Trillion dollar Eurozone banking community on the backs of the young. There are 5-10 T in losses here that are not being recognized and the young will not have the future economic ability to buy real estate. The Europeans are looking at America and saying if the americans can socialize bank loses and get away with it so can we. The Irish look to have done it successfully...therefore so can we. The med countries have alot in common with Egypt and the young will not stand for total poverty when fully educated. Get control of the banks. Capitalism, globalism, free trade make sense. But if a bank makes a bad investment they need to pay the price. What the ???? does a bank in Scandanavia need a multi Trillion balance sheet for, etc., etc.?????
I agree but...
News flash: "They" are the banks.
...the banks buy Greek, Spanish, Italian, French, German,.....bonds, so the politicians can spend more money than they tax. Of course each central bank assumes these bonds are as good as gold, so they leverage these bonds 10 - 30 times with loans. Pretty soon the ponzi-shit gets really big. When default hits, rather mortgage, commercial or sovereign, the shit hits the fan.
Summary of the debate, those against "feel" the Euro is the right thing AKA truthiness, those for have looked at the numbers AKA truth. The bit I laughed hardest at was Peter Mandelson arguing that there are so many millions of people in the EU that it has to be a good thing, all I could think of is asking him what happens when they all starve like in Greece? Usually politicians say things that are so vague as to be pretty meaningless, so we have no idea whether they understand what is happening, I think this debate shows that they are completely clueless, we, the people, are alone in this, don't think for a moment the government of whatever country you are in will help save you, at best they will be on TV telling us reality is not reality, at worst they will get in the way of our survival, prepare accordingly.
The debate results!
Europe has failed:
Yes No
55% 45%
This was the vote of the Canadian audience at the conclusion of the debate.
Actually it was little changed from the opinion of the audience taken before the debate.
The null hypothesis is that the debate has failed.
Many people are clueless as to what is actually happening in Canada because the MSM has had its lips sealed. This video is not Greece or Spain or a country in the Arab Spring, Syria, Yemen or The OWS movement here in America... This is Montreal Canada. Austerity has hit the nerve on a global basis and Canada is just getting warmed up. Where is Leo Kolivakis when we need him for the inside scoop happening in Montreal? I would love some insight if you are out there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQwUc79VGmM&feature=player_embedded
has no one ever seen a shakedown? a guy comes to your store and tells you he is an insurance saleman selling fire insurance. you tell him you don't need fire insurance. he tells you everyone who has not bought fire insurance from him had a fire within days of his visit. you buy fire insurance.
merkel is going to buy fire insurance because europe will burn if she doesn't. print! baby! print!.
Merkel has a very short time frame, and wants to serve her masters. She will agree to print, then swan off with her money, and to hell with Germany or Europe.
This is the behaviour of all the modern career politicians in the West. Bet on it.
Arrogant self serving humans can not debate. Both sides sucked, but the con side had no rationale with their "yes we can"!
There will be no Greek exit from the E.U. They may temporarily use a different currency, but that's the maximum extent of things. The decades of planning will not be cast aside so easily by the plutocracy, the European aristocracy, whatever you wish to call them. The European Union is literally their life's work. Them and their parent's who passed this great work onto them, the sons of the ancient European Aristocratic families.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is no European Crisis other than what has been engineered by the central planners. This is not a meteor about to land on Europe, but an artificial crisis in an artificial system created by man and controlled by man. Therefore, it can be manipulated by powerful men to achieve their goals.
Their goal is a closer economic union amongst European states. Their goal is the eventual destruction of national sovereignty for each individual Europen state. This "crisis" has been engineered to achieve that goal. As George Soros and so many before him have said, in a crisis you can do things that would otherwise be impossible. You can pull the USA PATRIOT Act out of the drawer and start spying on all Americans, for a recent example. "Crisis" is good for the plutocracy, it only makes them stronger.
http://www.iii.co.uk/news-opinion/reuters/news/36496
They're meeting again in June to discuss, not the breakup of the E.U., but further and more tightly binding its member states together. Euro bonds WILL happen.
"Senior EU and U.S. officials said Hollande raised the topic of euro area bonds - bonds jointly underwritten by all euro zone member states - during G8 talks at the weekend and would again push it when EU leaders meet in Brussels on May 23."
"Proposals are expected to include boosting the paid-in capital of the European Investment Bank and plans for 'project bonds' underwritten by the EU budget to finance infrastructure."
"The aim is to agree ideas that can be formally signed off at the next summit on June 28-29."
Psyman,
Yep.. That's their profitable game. Different faces, same agenda: keep the power and money with the elite freaks, and pay politicians to provide bread and circuses for the masses.
It was a very bad day for the USA when the Federal Reserve Board of old european bankster class regained the land they coveted in 1913.
But humans are sociable by nature, and I think that even the central banksters and their political pets are terrified of the monster they made: unregulated otc derivatives.
Even Frankenstein wanted to be loved, be part of a family instead of a freak. The Bernanke and his ilk need to show some respect for law if they are to be saved from the mess they created.
Stop the looting. Start the prosecuting.
And finally,
Beware world. Peter Mandelson is a fraud, a close pal of Russian oligarchs, and Gaddafi Inc.; a very well paid pet of the EU experiment and those globalist central banks who fund it. He's much like the Keynes he admires in every way; personal and professional.
Excellent :))
your good,... really, really good! thanks
Correction: Jewish oligarchs that robbed the Russian nation
Greece is neither cause nor consequence, it is an excuse to further pump value which is skimmed off for pension, insurance and hedge funds.
Our need for interest / dividend based incomes or supplemental incomes is the cause The products are uncontrolled, now necessary to generate interest and dividend income. Greece, Spain etc are the sucked out remains..