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National Defense Authorization Act Debate In Progress, Vote Imminent

Tyler Durden's picture


Much has been said about the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), a bill which, as many are aware, permits the indefinite detention of Americans suspected of terrorist affiliations. As a reminder from the AP, "Congress is pressing ahead with a massive $662 billion defense bill that requires military custody for terrorism suspects linked to al-Qaida, including those captured within the U.S., with lawmakers hoping their last-minute revisions will mollify President Barack Obama and eliminate a veto threat. Leaders of the House and Senate Armed Services Committees announced late Monday that they had reached agreement on the policy-setting legislation that had gotten caught up in an escalating fight on whether to treat suspected terrorists as prisoners of war or criminals in the civilian justice system. Responding to personal appeals from Obama and his national security team, the lawmakers added language on national security waivers and other changes that they hoped would ensure administration support for the overall bill. “I assured the president that we were working on additional assurances, that the concerns were not accurate,” Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin, D-Mich., who spoke to Obama last week, told reporters at a news conference. “That we’d do everything we could to make sure they were allayed, and met.” White House officials said Tuesday they were reviewing the bill. It was unclear whether they would hold firm on the veto threat." Unfortunately, the usurpation of America by the Big Brother state (more here) is no surprise to anyone, and this is merely the latest milestone. Regardless, those who wish to watch the moot debate on the topic as our elected individuals sell yet another remaining individual liberty to the corporate octopus, as well as the vote on the act due at 3:30 PM Eastern, can do so here (and read more on it here).


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Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:34 | 1979900 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

Who needs a six amendment when you got DWTS

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:38 | 1979921 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

Everyone needs to figure out an exit plan for this country. When it really starts to go, it will go fast. This is just the beginning.

The last place in the world you'll want to be is in a country when 300 million people who don't have a clue, go feral.


RIP Amerika.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:44 | 1979963 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Was just able to get onto the WIlkow Majority program on Sirius.  They were talking Democrat this and Pelosi that.  I was ableto get on the program to discuss this bill being debated right now in the house.  The show quickly wentto commercial.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:45 | 1979971 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

If anyone is looking for me, I'll be in boxcar 56ARZ7, being transported to Detention Camp 3-B in North Dakota.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:49 | 1979998 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I'll be in 3-C ND.  Do you think I will be able to take my guitar?  I call top bunk bitchez. 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:58 | 1980058 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

This will no doubt pass. It has already been done all thats lef tis the bread and circus, then vote, then law.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:10 | 1980124 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

It's the enforcement that would concern me.  With cops like this asshole - - I would assume they will be plenty of enforcement.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:25 | 1980148 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



"I assured the president that we were working on additional assurances, that the concerns were not accurate,” Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin, D-Mich.

Montgomery County's sheriff's department got it's weapons-capable drone early.  Why would any American be concerned?

[Sheriff] Gage said he has no immediate plans to outfit his drone with weapons, and he also ruled out using the chopper for catching speeders.


"We're not going to use it for that," he said.


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:32 | 1980220 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

No, no, no.  These aren't gas chambers - we just need you to take a shower.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:42 | 1980264 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

there never were any gas chambers either...........just another story for the telling......

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:50 | 1980322 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



the spin is on full blast, every day.. everywhere.. and inescapable!

The Jews will be arresting all of you for telling the truth! You terrorists! They will be coming for you first!

The 2 largest contributors to the lobby in Washington DC are..

Wall Street.. Financial, Insurance and the like..


Jewish causes..

Guess who owns / runs Wall Street!

Yep! The Jews! Do I need to post the list?

And if say.. the Catholic Church was to fuck up and hire a bunch of idiots that made Churches un-safe! You would hear about it!

But when the JEWS fuck up Wall Street, nope we are just anti-semites for telling the truth!

My describing their actions makes me an anti-semite.. its funny because I like the 400,000 Jews who were protesting the Zionist One World Freaks in Israel. So I am just confused? Or is the biggest most well funded spin machine in the history of mankind on full blast?

You be the Judge!


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:00 | 1980378 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I'm as alarmed as anyone about this, but a) people need to do research on Habeus Corpus and recent SCOTUS decisions (even with a very much pro-Bush Supreme Court - I'm just telling it like it is, so don't get all political on me, as I hate both parties equally), and b) realize that Congress can pass whatever legislation it wished, but their act of doing so doesn't mean that it won't face an Executive Branch veto, or that if said veto is not forthcoming, the judicial branch won't strike it down (see the cases on Habeus Corpus challenges to indefinite detainer I cited below).

Having said all this, I fully endorse voting the scummy ass of any CONgressSCUM who votes for this abomination and affront to core American rights (as a floor, the least to be expected, as in "how dare you even pretend to try and strip away fundamental, constitutional rights of your EMPLOYERS & CONSTITUENTS, SCUMBAGS) so far out of office that they will need to move their own ass to a foreign jurisdiction.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 18:50 | 1980843 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Vote of No Confidence

I agree.

I wonder what the govr figurehead will be like for the new govr of the US?  I mean it will be a Goldman Sachs guy right just like they did in Italy and just like they're infesting the US govt already anyway...HEY Corzine will be the next leader that would make perfect sense.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 19:49 | 1981056 FatFingered
FatFingered's picture

I know where I will be.  My nearby super secure, brand new, somehow currently occupied, FEMA camp that I visited when I found out where it was.  As I pulled in I was immediately followed by a GEO Corp. security a-hole.  I drove in and parked.  The guard pulled up behind me and I backed out and around him and sped out.  He followed me out.

Also, local Sheriff are already practicing on undocumented, non- criminals.  Fema is upstairs from the County and you are whisked from County imprisonment to Federal in minutes.  The round-up machine seems to be gearing up to begin with political dissidents.  Otherwise why lie about the fact that they are only deporting immigrants with felons?  And why spend this money now?  This is happening in a State that has already fully implemented the draconian Real ID, which combines all available databases(local and federal) and makes them readily available to local police upon running your auto tags, which can be done hundreds at a time with new high-tech (letter recognition) tag readers attached to patrol cars.  I know this because I have seen it happening.


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 19:42 | 1981025 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Yes, but it takes a monumental fight through the court system to protect a right you should not have to protect.

And how will anyone know you need to be in court if you have been "indefinitely detained"?

In the years it will take to sort this out in the legal system and get our rights back many will be trampled.  And by that time they will have thought of a new gambit to violate our rights all over again.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 21:00 | 1981382 pods
pods's picture

I suggest you rent Rendition and watch the little documentary at the end.  

It is coming here, if not already.


Thu, 12/15/2011 - 01:17 | 1982198 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Since when has permission been needed to exercise a RIGHT??               Milestones

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:01 | 1980390 assembler
assembler's picture

You're just confused.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:05 | 1980423 SMG
SMG's picture

Luciferian Illuminati not Jewish people.  And more specifically the ruling families of the Illuminati.  The blame must be correctly placed when the magic entertainment box doest show the dancing or singing program any more, and the kids are saying they're hungry, but the magic food card doesn't work anymore.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:14 | 1980468 CH1
CH1's picture

They're just trolls trying to divert attention from the subject at hand. Antisemitism does that pretty well.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:20 | 1980494 kito
kito's picture

jw--maybe you should be clear about which jews you dont like so that we dont confuse you for a rambling anti semite. perhaps you should label them....power-jews, or ruler-jews, or banker-jews. 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:06 | 1980428 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

When's Glenn Beck doing his show on FEMA Camps again? O, that's right.....

Eat shit Glenn

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 18:07 | 1980692 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Eat shit Glenn.

ah yes, he does just that, daily.

unfortunately, he's bulimic. . .

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:27 | 1980521 glokk26L
glokk26L's picture

Don't you remember The Dirty Dozen?  You may get the guitar, but doubt any strings unless you volunteer for the suicide mission.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:53 | 1980025 centerline
centerline's picture

Not a detentional camp.  It is a Re-education center.

Don't want to piss off the overlords so soon.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:12 | 1980130 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Will there be free U.N. provided biscuits & hot chocolate?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:22 | 1980180 data_monkey
data_monkey's picture

Just water and whatever rodents you can capture I'm afraid. That's all they'll be able to afford.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:03 | 1980403 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture


This bill (National Defense Authorization Act) is a declaration of war against the people of America by their own government. All U.S citizens will immediately have the right to take up arms to reclaim their country if this law passes. None will be terrorists. All will be freedom fighters, fighting for a just society against an odious government, legal and financial system. If this law passes, America will no longer be a country governed by the rule of law, as it undermines the very basis of law itself, as a structure for maintaining civilization. When law is usurped for the purpose of tyranny, all bets are off.

The rule of law will die in America, if this law passes as it is. Full scale civil war, will only be a matter of time. Abduction, torture and murder is the cursed trinity at the heart of all odious systems of government. The passing of this bill will qualify the American government as a fully odious regime, with no remaining basis in morality. All of humanity and every American citizen, will be fully justified in opposing the U.S government and it’s enforcers, to bring about it’s downfall.

Every senator who votes this into law, is in reality committing the crime of treason against the nation and citizens of America and a heinous crime against all humanity, for which they can and should be tried and sentenced to life-imprisonment or death. Because together with torture and murder, this law puts in place the final element of the legal framework for the genocide of American citizens. “Legalized” Abduction, torture and murder, means that Satanic government is here. Therefore genocide is not far behind. No human being is obliged to obey the laws, of any odious regime.

WITH THE PASSING OF THIS LAW THE U.S GOVERNMENT HEREBY FORFEITS ALL AUTHORITY OVER THE CITIZENS AND STATES OF AMERICA. The passing of this law, will be looked back on as the day when the citizens and states of America became legally and morally free to fully oppose and ignore the authority of the government of the United States of America. Unless the ability to abduct American citizens is removed from this bill, the day that this bill is signed into law, will be the day when the rule of law ends in the United States.

Obama, you have been warned. When genuine (as opposed to odious) government is restored you will be tried in a court of law, along with the Senators who supported it, if this bill is allowed to pass, as it is. For it -along with the laws put in place by recent U.S governments – is treasonous and genocidal. Therefore, for all law makers who have supported abduction, torture and murder (thus creating the conditions for genocide) the day is not far away, when the sentence for your actions, will be life imprisonment or death.

You will not escape the restoration and elevation, of the legal basis of society, that is coming. In fact, your convictions and sentencing, will be the much needed proof, that civilization is restored. So don’t fool yourself that you will be walking away. The same applies to the previous administrations also. All odious rulers, Obama, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Clintons and satanic politicians and bankers everywhere – your day in court is coming. You think you are protected by your corruption of the law, when in fact you are creating the conditions for it’s improvement that will leave you with no defense for your actions.

All odious politicians, bankers, bureaucrats, agents and executives will be sentenced and punished accordingly, when the time comes. You have been warned. Do not push the world over the edge.
Do not destroy the integrity & authority of the rule of law, if you want any chance of a reprieve.
The conditions of the French revolution are being re-created. You know what happened there !



Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:08 | 1980439 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men/women,
living together in society,
they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."

-Frederic Bastiat, (1801-1850)

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:17 | 1980481 CH1
CH1's picture

I can't disagree with you, but what % of the neutered populace will actually lift a finger against their oppressors?

After all, EVERY corp and media outlet will provide reasons to believe.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:33 | 1980550's picture

"Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war let it begin here." -- Capt. John Parker

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:50 | 1980014 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Hey wheres you 'tarded son? Not commenting on the 'Santa Rally' he was so hyped up on last week? Why does he keep buying into sure thing rallys only to get burned each time?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:52 | 1980023 kito
kito's picture

robo is busy working his predictions for events that happened yesterday...........

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:32 | 1980219 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

I miss Harry Wanger

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:00 | 1980053 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I wonder if the latest Canada-US border deal where US LEAs are able to operate in Canada (under the supervision of the RCMP) is just so they can hunt down stragglers and those trying to flee?  In any case the CAD is done along with the USD, so anyone trying to run north is only going to be greeted by equally dire circumstance.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:21 | 1980169 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

i went to the social secuity office with my with wife today - she had to file for medicare [1st time/last time?] only - there were approx. 50 seats in the waiting room - outside was a migrant worker bus - inside there were 40 of the 50 seats occupied by mexicans

 *now, that's what i call homeland security?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:21 | 1980179 James-Morrison
James-Morrison's picture

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they detain you, then you rot in a regional FEMA camp.


Of course, if all Americas are detained, life in America wouldn't be that different than what it is like now.  The chains and fences would be just more visible.  

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:35 | 1980556's picture

Actor George Takei, who played "Sulu" in the classic TV series Star Trek, talks about his childhood experience in the "freest country in the world's" concentration camps during Banksters' War II.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:56 | 1980359 Westcoastliberal
Westcoastliberal's picture

We've never had this kind of bone-headed move before by CON-gress.  While I lean to the side that says our "elected representatives" are just doing the bidding of their masters (read: illuminati, mil/indust complex, etc), a nagging part of my brain is telling me that maybe they know of some imminent threat that would actually bring the "battle" here inside America and they're trying to get in front of that before it occurs.

Remember the arrest of Spc Millay, the MP stationed in AK?  Rumor had it that he made calls to family/friends to warn them TSHTF was about to occur and that's why the arrested him and charged him with espionage.  Apparently the NSA intercepted his calls and reported it to the FBI, who showed up to arrest him but the Air Force wouldn't let them take him.  This was around 11/5 or so, then the story went cold as a stone; no follow-ups.

I'm not the smartest one here but anyone else have any similar ponderings?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:39 | 1980576's picture

Government has always stolen more money and killed more people than private individuals ever could.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 18:39 | 1980803 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

If/when you think it's time to exercise that contingency - where is going to be any better?  The crap we're seeing, IMHO, is a clamping down in anticipation of global uprisings, riots, and revolution.  I agree, when it goes, it will go quickly - but I think it will go quickly everywhere.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:41 | 1979942 HedgeAccordingly
HedgeAccordingly's picture

ES looking to make new lows.. test of 1200 coming up

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:46 | 1979979 LibertyIn2010
LibertyIn2010's picture

Truly a sad day in our nation's history when the politicians who are bought and paid for by the global banks, Wall Street and the various multi-national corporations that make up the military-industrial complex are about to pass a law that potentially makes it a crime to express your dissatisfaction at the corruption and terror waged by the various groups mentioned above. 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:51 | 1980018 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

It signals the very end when the govt turns on the people as 'terrorists'.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:54 | 1980032 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Just spoke with my Congressman's office and he stated that the language pertainingto American citizens was taken out and that all posturing against this were using talking points and nohingmore.  LaTourette-Syndrom will be voting yes.  Cocktard, fuckstick, anal douche, bastard hole. cunt.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:20 | 1980493 CH1
CH1's picture

They lie, they know they lie, and they don't care.

But... the sheep line up and endorse these pieces of shit every election.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:35 | 1979905 redpill
redpill's picture

RIP Bill of Rights

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:08 | 1980111 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Kill this abomination before it does the same to all of us!!!

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:45 | 1980295 prains
prains's picture

Time to write a Bill of Fights

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:28 | 1980525 MobBarley
MobBarley's picture

Fight Club.


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:25 | 1980511 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

Vote from the rooftops.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:39 | 1979913 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

If the CONgress doesn't carve out a hard exception for American Citizens on U.S. soil - I'll actually go one step further, radical adherent to a government restrained by a Constitutional Framework form of government asdvocate that I am, and declare U.S. Citizens anywhere who have not been declared 'enemy combatants of the U.S. as declared by a United States Court of Compentent Jurisdiciton (aka Due Process, as once one is deemed an enemy combantant, they've already been tried and convicted), this will be a watershed moment in the literal subversion of the Constitution by the U.S. Government, and the burning of the Sixth Amendment.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:40 | 1979931 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

"...and the burning of the Sixth Amendment."

May it RIP alongside the Fourth Amendment which has been dead for quite some time now.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:43 | 1979947 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Not to mention the Fourteenth Amendment, which I failed to mention specifically above, which is the foundation for RIGHT (Constitutional Rights, as in NOT privileges - such as the issuance and suspension of driver licenses) to Due Process.


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:15 | 1980149 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

I think you might be a little confused about the actual wording of the 14th Amendment, and the TRUE intentions behind its language. The 14th Amendment was not created to protect your God-given Rights; rather, it was created to transform God-given rights into government-granted Privileges. Let's check the language. The 14 Amendment begins thusly:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

OK fine. Now look at the next sentence:

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States..."

No mention of rights there. Only "privileges and immunities" are protected. There is a VERY clear legal distinction between the word "Right" and the word "Privilege". Anybody with the vaguest knowledge of legal language knows this. We must conclude that the 14th Amendment was written this way on purpose.

To review: first, create a new status class (citizen) and define which people are in that class . Second, declare that citizens shall enjoy certain privileges that the States cannot abridge. Third (which is implied by the language, or rather, the lack of certain language), annul the God-given rights by leaving those rights unmentioned-- and therefore, unprotected-- to anybody who falls into the "14th Amendment citizen" classification.

Neat trick, eh?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:42 | 1980224 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

14th Amendment Amendment XIV Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


I suppose that Chief Justice Draconian could construct a majority opinion whereby he/she declares that the federal government can deprive you of all of these things (and more), even though individual states can not, while going on to minimize "due process of law" to the point of meaningless, although I'd then defer back to the Sixth Amendment if I had the privilege of doing so.

Sixth Amendment Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.


And here again, Chief Justice Draconian would argue that a) this only is triggered where states, and not the federal government, charge one with a criminal offense (???), b) is moot unless one is charged with a criminal offense officially, despite being detained indefinitely on unspecified or vaguely specified grounds (in which case, screw it; just have government detain but never charge anyone) - but what about HABEUS CORPUS?

I suppose if Habeus Corpus is allowed to be destroyed as a key cornerstone of the constitution as it pertains to matters involving governmental allegations of criminal conduct against the detained, whether official charges have been technically filed or not, then it's pretty much over -

Detainee Policy | Brennan Center for Justice

Al-Marri v. Wright, 487 F. 3d 160 (2007)

Boumediene v. Bush 553 U.S. 723 (2008)


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:52 | 1980334 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

The 14th Amendment rendered the Bill of Rights obsolete. There is no longer any class of Americans who qualify for protection under the Bill of Rights-- all are now classified as 14th Amendment Citizens who the Federal Government has granted privileges in place of God-given rights.

As for Due Process of Law, well, secret military tribunals handle that one nicely.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:05 | 1980388 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

You need to read the two cases I linked.

No snark.


I hate to resort to Wiki, but I do believe its section on this is accurate, and don't have time at this precise moment to find alternate discourse of a summary of these cases (plus Hamden v. Rumsfeld), so here it is:

Boumediene v. Bush


Boumediene v. Bush, 553 U.S. 723 (2008), was a writ of habeas corpus submission made in a civilian court of the United States on behalf of Lakhdar Boumediene, a naturalized citizen of Bosnia and Herzegovina, held in military detention by the United States at the Guantanamo Bay detention camps in Cuba.[1][2][3] Guantanamo Bay is not formally part of the United States, and under the terms of the 1903 lease between the United States and Cuba, Cuba retained ultimate sovereignty over the territory, while the United States exercises complete jurisdiction and control.[4] The case was consolidated with habeas petition Al Odah v. United States and challenged the legality of Boumediene's detention at the United States Naval Station military base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba as well as the constitutionality of the Military Commissions Act (MCA) of 2006. Oral arguments on the combined case were heard by the Supreme Court on December 5, 2007.

On June 12, 2008, Justice Kennedy delivered the opinion for the 5-4 majority holding that the prisoners had a right to the habeas corpus under the United States Constitution and that the MCA was an unconstitutional suspension of that right. The Court applied the Insular Cases, by the fact that the United States, by virtue of its complete jurisdiction and control, maintains "de facto" sovereignty over this territory, while Cuba retained ultimate sovereignty over the territory, to hold that the aliens detained as enemy combatants on that territory were entitled to the writ of habeas corpus protected in Article I, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution. The lower court expressly indicated that no constitutional rights (not merely the right to habeas) extend to the Guantanamo detainees rejecting petitioners' arguments. This Court's case precedent recognized that fundamental rights afforded by the Constitution extend to Guantanamo.[5][6] Along with Rasul v. Bush, Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, and Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, this is a major case in the Court's controversial detainee jurisprudence.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 18:07 | 1980677 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

As for those cases you cited, well, according to the way our current legal system "works", the interpretation of the law is certainly a matter of judicial opinion, rendered by "learned judges" who are our betters in these matters, is it not? And yet some judges don't interpret the law the same way as others.

How about this viewpoint instead: the law is exactly what the law is. I don't need a judge to tell me what the 14th Amendment says; it is written in plain language, with words that have clear legal definitions, and I can see exactly what words are there and which ones aren't there.

Go back and read what I wrote-- what is wrong with my logic, or my reading of the text?

My final argument is this. If the 14th Amendment is supposed to protect our Rights, why has it obviously done a lousy job doing so? Look at what has changed since the 14th Amendment was written. We now require Social Security numbers to work; driver's licenses to drive; we can't own a car without State registration papers, we can't opt-out of scams like Social Security, we are subject to involuntary servitude (aka income taxes), we are subjects of the Federal Reserve System, our legal tender is worthless and we have no other recourse for a legal medium of exchange, we are subject to all kinds of restrictions on our freedoms like the TSA, the Patriot Act, etc etc etc.

So, ignoring words, and examining reality, which of us is right?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 19:47 | 1980718 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture


--- "As for those cases you cited, well, according to the way our current legal system "works", the interpretation of the law is certainly a matter of judicial opinion, rendered by "learned judges" who are our betters in these matters, is it not? And yet some judges don't interpret the law the same way as others."

Those cases that I cited above are not subject to varying opinions of different judges.

They're now the official law of the land, with the issues and questions they've presented, having gone before the Supreme Court of The United States of America, ruled on/decided as outlined, and are now stare decisis whose precedent all courts comprising the U.S. judicial system are bound by.

Can the Supreme Court reverse one of its prior decisions, as is speculated it may do re Miranda? Yes. It can happen, but is rare. Very rare.

But no court other than the Supreme Court can not abide by a SCOTUS ruling, period.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 19:37 | 1981014 Archduke
Archduke's picture

and posse comitatus

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 18:46 | 1980828 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

The 14th Amend. prohibits STATES from enacting laws that conflict with due process, etc. - it has nothing to do with laws the Feds. enact.  The issue here is that this law is in direct conflict with the Constitution itself.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:24 | 1980185 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

'change', we can hope on?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:47 | 1979983 pods
pods's picture

To be honest, citizens merely have Civil Rights, and only at the pleasure of their ruling government.  So if they take away some "rights," maybe it will wake up some more people as to what the exact situation is?


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:57 | 1980022 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

As unconstitutional and deeply disturbing as the idefinite internment of Japanese-ancestry AMERICAN CITIZENS on U.S. Soil without the right for judicial review was during WWII, this is that episode on steroids, as, and unless I'm unaware of any major legislative matters regarding this now proposed legislation, it's a literal blank check to do to any American in any numbers what was done to Japanese Americans, for any period of time.

*My grammar is terrible today. Apologies. I should have written Court of Competent Jurisdiction above.


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:05 | 1980091 pods
pods's picture

Correct, but many conclude that we are not functioning under the organic constitution anymore anyways.

Trafficant even read it into the record.

That is where my comments are coming from.  

And it is the only thing that puts together the pieces of all the infringements of our rights up until now.  Licensing and rules for guns, permits to peaceably assemble, etc.  If you have to get a permit, it is a privilege.

The 14th amendment created a public trust, and by joining that trust you abide by the rules of the trust.  Most joined at birth, and by using the currency of the trust, you are a party.

That is why you have to contract when entering a court of "law."  If you do not contract to their rules, they cannot try you in their court.



Wed, 12/14/2011 - 18:15 | 1980723 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Exactly. The 14th Amendment defines a class of people who are granted certain privileges by the Federal Government, which protects the privileges from being abridged by the states.

Unless you specifically opt out of that class of persons, you have traded Privileges for Rights, and are subject to the subsequent law written for that class of persons..

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 01:54 | 1982273 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Just my two cents. " We the people---do ordain and establish this constitution for the United States of America." Note: We the people, are the SOVERIGNS of this nation--The OWNERS of this country. WE founded it, settled it long before any constitution existed.. WE are not 14th Amendment citizens; and as such do not take orders from our employee's. WE OWN THIS COUNTRY AND IT IS ABOUT TIME WE START ACTING LIKE OWNERS RATHER THAN ITS SERF"S!!        Milestones

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:54 | 1980341 salthouse
salthouse's picture

and the Fifth Ammendment ......

Second is on life support

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:37 | 1979915 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

The unemployed are terrorists. Send them to the camps. /sarc

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:38 | 1979918 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Long Get out of Jail Free Cards. 

Check that: long compromising photos and other implements of black mail.  :D

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:38 | 1979919 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Any member that votes for that POS is a POS.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:38 | 1979920 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

It will pass. Have to have it in place for when the economy collapses...

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:53 | 1980029 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yep theyre all lawyers, its just how they think. They can imprison, kill, torture, whoever they want as long as they passed a law for it. 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 21:34 | 1981507 subello
subello's picture

Bro I had a discussion with my girl on this. Every time congress passes legislation I try to figure out the motivation behind it. What I imagine this would be highly effective for is exactly what you said. Economy collapses, bank run happens but people are denied access to their money, people start rioting nationwide, local police will be overwhelmed but the military wont. Personally this looks like a strategic move for something that is coming.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:40 | 1979925 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

The Nazification of America continues...

...maybe they'll detain me for suggesting that Corzine needs to be detained.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:39 | 1979926 FubarNation
FubarNation's picture

If these treasonous fucks pass this bill may they all rot in hell.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:39 | 1979927 Edmon Plume
Edmon Plume's picture

It's either "for the children"(tm), or "for our own good"(tm), right?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:39 | 1979929 My Taint
My Taint's picture

How many Tylers can they arrest at once?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:43 | 1979956 john39
john39's picture

most posters on this site probably have dossiers somewhere...  ever hear of the hundred flowers campaign?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:47 | 1979986 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I can't waitto read mine after this dust settles.  I think my internet porn viewing habits will even astound myself.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:10 | 1980123 john39
john39's picture

hundred flowers campaign was something that chairman mao came up in the early 1950's...  ask all the intellectuals to produce constructive criticism of the government (let one hundred flowers bloom), then later round them all up for being counter revolutionaries...

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:16 | 1980150 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I realize that I've been accused of paranoia (I actually haven't, at least not openly or out loud), but does anyone doubt that it's at least a possibility, if not a likelihood, that Google, with all of its 'free services' such as Google Voice, Google Docs, and a variety of 'competitors' to Google, are all U.S. data aggregation services?

Google execs in high ranking places in U.S. Government, and a revolving door of Google (and other tech company) hiring of former U.S. legislators and regulators, bitchez.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:18 | 1980160 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Wouldn't exclude it as a possibility.  Fuck em.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:52 | 1980329 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

google received funding from DARPA.  so did facebook.  im guessing they weren't "charitable donations"

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:23 | 1980502 Westcoastliberal
Westcoastliberal's picture

Google = NSA/NSA = Google

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:29 | 1980528 Confused
Confused's picture

I think we would be crazy not to assume such behavior.


Paranoia or not. They know everything about its users.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 18:04 | 1980675 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

google search "illuminati" typed in reverse.


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 18:54 | 1980856 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Once any organization achieves that kink of level of direct involvement with the flow of information you know they get a visit from TPTB with an offer they can't refuse.  Google, Facebook, ect. weren't started as means to monitor the population, but they surely became participants whether they wanted to or not.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 22:19 | 1981669 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

So you're making the audacious claim that a company like AT&T or Verizon would just hand over data on their tens of millions of users' phone calls, text and surfing queries to the government without so much as a warrant signed by a judge?

You are a conspiracytheoristparanoid!!!!!!!!!!

Just kidding. That already happened.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 19:00 | 1980883 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

If you think that's bad, just wait until you see governments outsourcing their IT infrastructure to Google.

It's already happening.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 20:42 | 1981302 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Google boys are members *cough* of the Bilderberg club, and are fond of "foundations" - can't get much more embedded than that.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:58 | 1980057 s2man
s2man's picture

Yeah.  I hang out here, and bought food storage online.  They've got my number.  At least I always pay cash for the a-, nevermind.

I've got to go bury some more stuff...

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:30 | 1980202 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Damn, never heard of that before now.

He who fails to learn from history...

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 19:03 | 1980899 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

All they have to do today to replicate Mao's trick is to start a blog, then sit back and watch the posts. :-)

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:00 | 1980382 falak pema
falak pema's picture

all those who assert they are Durdens, like hard gherkins.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:39 | 1979930 transaccountin
transaccountin's picture

Sieg Heil!

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:45 | 1980606's picture

Even the SS didn't make a habit of saying "Ve vant to grope your genitalia."

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:40 | 1979937 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

America, it was nice to know ya.............

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:41 | 1979945 pods
pods's picture

Well, I would like to think that somehow liberty will be defended by our servant government, but I am a realist.

These cocksuckers would never do any such thing though.

Even if this does not pass, there aren't any checks and balances to prevent any of this crap.

It is not like the government has a good track record for obeying codified law anyways.

This is all fodder for the Hannity Sheep to rejoice that the guns will only be turned on the brown people who are sitting on top of our oil.


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:48 | 1979994 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

The biggest sheeple around are the 'Great Americans' who tune into Hannity religiously, mostly breathless undersexed housewives judging by 90% of the calls...throw in the Becktards and the Limbaugh dorks and its quite a group of brain dead idiots all convinced that 'their political guy' will make it all good.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:09 | 1980116 pods
pods's picture

It truly is scary. I try to see how long I can stand listening to his show on the ride home.  Usually I last about 2-3 minutes.  

It is kinda fun.  Try it sometime!



Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:47 | 1980310 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Disagree, listen to the NPR programmed fucktard liberal crowd for the biggest sheeple class. 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:02 | 1980396 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Exactly.  Soft voiced, reasonable people and puppies and rainbows. Violence isn't the answer. COEXIST. All horse shit.   

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:40 | 1980581 Confused
Confused's picture

Violence isn't the answer and coexistence is all horse shit?


You sound like someone I'd love to ignore. Beginning now.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:49 | 1980622's picture

I am instinctively nonviolent but I won't bury my head in the sand either. How many of us would be willing to stand and watch as thugs drag our neighbors away? I don't think I could do that.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 19:29 | 1980987 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Sure you will if you think they are coming for you next..

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
? Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 19:06 | 1980908 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Meanwhile, every solution they come up with is based upon the violence of governing, sp they are unknowingly betrayed by their own incoherent ignorance.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 18:09 | 1980699 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

I stopped listening when it became apparent they were purposely failing to mention Ron Paul when referring to GOP/Debates/Any fucking thing, etc.  Not sure if they've changed, but the shitcanning of the opera host for protesting war was a gamechanger, too.

Kumbayah, bitchez.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 20:03 | 1981109 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

You are all begging for indefinite detention.  Is there a "report your neighbor as a terrorist" internet site yet?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 23:37 | 1981978 pods
Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:45 | 1979954 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

Just an off the wall thought here. Even if those that suggest the fed is done printing would be right, the fed will certainly print to sustain the war effort should the ME go haywire. If that is to pass, is there another/better hedge than gold ?  Rare earths or oil related or something that might not get taxed or outlawed the way gold might ? Anyone did some home work and have a favorite sector they are looking at leading into War induced printing ?



Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:44 | 1979962 King Dong
King Dong's picture

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the communists
and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me -
and by then there was no one left to speak out for me.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:54 | 1980037 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

How that could be voted down is beyond me.


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:56 | 1980647 kito
kito's picture

how spas could be voted down is beyond me.....

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 19:08 | 1980913 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Too many "bad words?"

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:54 | 1980634's picture

The government has a special talent for making even enlightened people attack those who are somehow different or alien.

First they proposed the Tobin Tax but I went along with it because I thought that the good hearted government was just trying to smack down the evil speculators...


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 18:04 | 1980678 WoodMizer
WoodMizer's picture

The future version will be:

First they came for the gold;

Then they came for the guns.

That was when the people came for them.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:46 | 1979975 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

Anyone catch Obummer's speech at Ft. Bragg today. "It's easier to start a war than to end one ..." Speaking from personal experience.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:55 | 1980642's picture

Obama just keeps droning on. Predator droning, that is.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 19:08 | 1980916 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Must be why he keeps going for double or nothing.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:49 | 1980002 sheeped up
sheeped up's picture

Thanks John McCain your a true Amerikan Hero!!  JFC...

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:49 | 1980003 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

This is an act of treason that is being carried out by members of very own government: white house, senate, and house of representatives. They are in fact engaging war against US CITIZENS-- terrorist is not defined by any country nor type of belief and is therefore carte blanche for the US government to do WHATEVER they want to the citizens they are supposed to work for.

Impeach, arrest, and bring these criminals to justice!

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:50 | 1980012 loveyajimbo
loveyajimbo's picture

Dang!  I better stop posting about wanting people to beat up Lloyd Blankfein and his evil sister jamie Dimon... might end up naked at Guantanamo...


How come lloyd is not there already?  He is a worse terrorist that Osama anytime in terms of damaging our country...

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 19:09 | 1980920 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Too late, your IP has been logged.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:58 | 1980020 f16hoser
f16hoser's picture

Looks like Hitler giving a speech!


Coincidence? I think not!


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:52 | 1980024 jomama
jomama's picture

anyone else feeling like Sisyphus? 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:14 | 1980139 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

does it burn when you pee?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:58 | 1980369 falak pema
falak pema's picture

you've just stolen Camus's myth. Good for you, its free.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:52 | 1980026 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

There is no way this should stand as constitutional. The only thing you can conclude is that AL-Q has infiltrated into the US as ordinary citzens and the government is afraid of them and rightly so or that this law is going to be used against law abiding citizens who the government simply disagrees with. The problem is that it can be both and who trusts the government of any country to decide the difference.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 19:10 | 1980922 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Buddy, it's just one "goddamned piece of paper" to nullify another.

Get used to it.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:53 | 1980030 kito
kito's picture

funny how dems and repubs can get along great and find common ground when it comes to stripping americans of their basic constitutional rights..........................

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:01 | 1980070 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Therein lies the false left/right world.  The only time the left and right, on capital hill take opposing sides, is on wedge issues like abortion, gays, and religion.  When it involves continueing the serfhood of Americans, they are on the same team.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:08 | 1980108 kito
kito's picture

sooo true.....divide and conquer.........playbook from congress.....

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:10 | 1980122 SofaPapa
SofaPapa's picture

For anyone who thinks that their representative is different than the rest, use this bill as a good litmus test.  Any member of our government who votes in favor of this bill clearly feels zero connection to the rights that were supposed to be what our country is about.  This bill is a slap in the face to the people and a big kiss to unchecked government.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 19:12 | 1980931 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

More likely they feel very connected to some friendly black-mailer who likes to hand out hookers, blow or boys.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:56 | 1980045 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

            Evidently there is absolutely NO CRIME on the face of the earth that Washington DC isn’t fully engaged in 24/7

whether it’s shredding our Consitution and replacing it with martial law -FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON OTHER THEN TO GAIN UNLAWFUL POWER OVER CITIZENS

Breaking interntaional law by gun running high powered weapons to Mexican drug cartel


Illegal wars for profit – running non stop

murder & assassinations is business as usual……..

and even though our representatives earn over $250K in taxpayer funds PLUS LUXURY HEALTH CARE PLUS WILDLY BIG PENSIONS EVEN AFTER A SHORT TERM, PLUS THE MONEY MAKE ON INSIDER TRADING – they still don’t believe it’s enough compensation to actually bother to read the bills they are passing – like 2000 page Obamacare bill………and then just rubber stamping a bill like the NDAA that establishes martial law as the new law of the land indefinietly and for NO reason…………….

so what do we do? perhaps Ron Paul can lead us in the necessary REVOLUTION that is going to have to happen to remove these criminals from Washington and restore our Constitution……..

WE NEED THE REVOLUTION TO BEGIN RIGHT NOW……….State by State –we must withdraw from the criminal law of the Federal Government—they are all fraudulent criminals and no one -least of all our military should recognize them as anything but TRAITORS TO AMERICA which is exactly what they are..





Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:38 | 1980251 chubbar
chubbar's picture

Everyone should visit and support this site it's one possible way to thwart these assholes!

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 19:13 | 1980935 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Aren't you forgetting that it's been deemed a terrorist organization?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:56 | 1980049 transaccountin
transaccountin's picture

Makes me ill to watch this; especially the jackals actually arguing for this. If you dont think that this isnt a bigger threat to our country than any other thing you must be crazy. This is exactly how Hitler got into power; clerks gave it to him.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:57 | 1980051 Guinny_Ire
Guinny_Ire's picture

I often think to Dr. Zhivago where we see the capitalist who's pursuing Julie Christie that we last see in the film in the uniform of a Communist officer. Might be time to get on the Govt payroll. I'm just sayin'.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 15:58 | 1980052 itchy166
itchy166's picture

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."  Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.

America home of the "free".

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:05 | 1980090 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

would you all please keep the noise down, traitors are at work..........

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:20 | 1980174 pods
pods's picture

Well played sir, well played!


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:06 | 1980098 Captnkirk
Captnkirk's picture

just called my congressman the office has said that the house version does not contain that same clause any one know if that's true or where i can find a copy looked thrua couple of sites no luck yet


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:09 | 1980107 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Well, read the George Washington article from today on Zerohedge right up there on the top of the page.

Oh and then for a joke, call back your congresscritter, and ask him if he can verify that he actually READ the bill....I bet $1,000 he didnt.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 17:04 | 1980414 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Seems the congresscritters are exempt from all the shit they why read it? It doesn't apply to THEM.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:44 | 1980286 chubbar
chubbar's picture

I called my representative (Guinta, NH) and spoke with one of the aides. He had the new language from the reconciliation committee right in front of him. They renumbered the offending paragraphs to 1021 & 1022 then added some bold lettering that stated that this language in no way altered existing law as it pertains to detaining/incarcerating U.S. citizens.

I personally think that this statement initially comes across as a fix but in thinking about it I believe there must exist some other statue/law/Presidential order that allows for this type detention because otherwise they could have made a less ambiguous statement.


Wed, 12/14/2011 - 18:08 | 1980696 Sedaeng
Sedaeng's picture

I can not locate the "newest" revisions to S.1867.  The 'govtrack' link to the pdf file on their site shows the 'file does not exist' when clicked on. (at least at 1600 -6GMT)

This appears to be the only version online at this time and 1021 & 1022 are still referencing the previous wording as it was passed by the Senate.

Sec. 1021 -Limitation on availability of funds for placing Maritime Prepositioning Ship squadrons on reduced operating status.
Sec. 1022 -Modification of conditions on status of retired aircraft carrier ex-John F. Kennedy.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:08 | 1980109 fuu
fuu's picture

It's a bit odd to watch ourselves be led into the abyss.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!