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The Nationalizations Begin: Argentina Takes Over Oil And Gas Producer YPF

Tyler Durden's picture



Update: TRADING HALT: YPF (NYSE)-NEWS DISSEMINATION. Translation: YPF shareholders - you have been Corzined. The money has vaporized. Jon Corzine has been appointed to the newly formed Argentina based Board of Dictators. Have a nice day

There are those who naively believe that any time the tables turn against a government, that government will quietly sit in the corner and play by the rules as its power erodes to zero. Probably the best example of just this is Executive Order 6102 when FDR, in a country that supposedly honors contract laws, issued Executive Order 6102, which effectively nationalized all private gold, no questions asked. And while we may not be there just yet, we are getting close, as demonstrated by the most recent developments in Argentina, where president Cristina Kirchner asked Congress to "expropriate" oil and gas producer YPF (which is majority owned by Repsol YPF) thereby "allowing the government to share ownership of the company with oil-producing provinces, a spokeswoman for Ms. Kirchner said Monday." What is the pretext for this move formerly associated almost exclusively with lawless, "communist" third world banana republics? Why "hydrocarbon self-sufficiency" of course. How soon until any and every government follows suit in a world in which excess liquidity sloshing around makes expropriation of vital energy producing assets a key prerogative? And how long until the resultant (accelerating) collapse in faith of the monetary system, leads government to declare "monetary self-sufficiency" and confiscate everything that is not nailed down. In exchange for worthless pieces of paper of course. Just to make it "fair". And just to return the favor, the market just sent Argentina CDS up by 60 bps, to just shy of 1000 bps. You know, because it's only "fair."

More on this sad development from the WSJ:

The mismatch in Argentina between rapidly growing energy consumption and languishing oil production after a decade of accelerated economic growth appears to be spurring the country's increasingly aggressive stance on YPF. Consumption of oil and gas increased 38% and 25%, respectively, from 2003 to 2010, but oil and gas production decreased 12% and 2.3% in that period, according to Barclays Capital.


Argentina has had to rely increasingly on costly imports. The energy trade balance swung from a surplus of about $2 billion in 2010 to a deficit of about $3 billion in 2011. Making matters worse, Argentina is increasingly strapped for dollars to pay for energy imports, as it has been coping with a wave of capital flight.


Mrs. Kirchner blames years of declining oil and gas output on companies that she says haven't invested enough. Following her cue, provincial governments in recent weeks have rescinded more than a dozen of YPF's production concessions and unleashed a wave of vitriol against the company.


But critics and industry officials say government policies such as high taxes, price caps on home energy rates and unpredictable rule changes like a suspension of tax breaks on production spending have discouraged investment.

Needless to say, it is all YPF's fault it is being nationalized. As for will determine the value of equitable compensation?

The bill calls for YPF's shareholders to be compensated at a value to be determined by a federal tribunal.

Not just a tribunal, but a tribunal which promises to deliver a fair and equitable transfer of monetary equivalents to those saying goodbye to their real assets.

Incidentally, nationalization always and without fail, lead to a collapse in efficiency, productivity and output. We can't wait to see as more and more commodity producers are "expropriated" only to see their outputs plunge, in the process sending the price of whatever commodities are currently in circulation and/or warehoused through the roof, thus leaving the expropriators far worse off than if they done nothing.

Finally, here are the Repsol YPF shareholders who will be less than delighted with this harbinger of what is to come.

All we can say about the big Spanish bank holders: nothing like being kicked when you are down.


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Mon, 04/16/2012 - 12:53 | 2348902 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

The time to decide is upon us all, fascism or socialism? I know which the US will go with full tilt.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 12:56 | 2348907 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I don't want either , thank you.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 12:58 | 2348916 surf0766
surf0766's picture

nor communism !!

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:26 | 2349003 redpill
redpill's picture

Argentina is a mildly-amusing sideshow.


The real story is Europe, and what is about to tear it into tiny little pieces.  This isn't a black swan, it's the KRAKEN.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:35 | 2349040 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

so this piece implies everyone of you going and handing your gold in. Make sure you obey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:45 | 2349071 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



What are you wearing to the Resource Wars?


Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:47 | 2349074 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

all your hydrocarbons are belong to us...

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:52 | 2349092 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

I'd prefer nationalizing US oil to ME paying for this depression.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:59 | 2349113 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Well the first thing you know old Jed's a millionaire...

the kinfolk said "Jed, move away from there"...

they said, Argentina is the place you oughtta be...

So they loaded up the truck and they moved to Buenos Airee......

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:43 | 2349261 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture


But man, marxist warrior, street ganglady KK showed her hand eh?

All in all though, much as the white world might want to get their knickers in a twist of un-safe havens for their multi-nationals, they are the original rape artists. They deserve it. I say nationalize it all.

Let each nation figure out it's own wants and needs. And don't say that people cannot runt he plants. Perhaps Plant and machinery is fair exchange, piad for. But not this ownership strangle-hold and major profit repatriation overseas that most oilcos have practised.

Look at BP and NIgeria. Look at BP and anywhere. Exxon Valdez comes to mind.

Burma Shell. 

They deserve it.

But is this the balck swan for Spain/Santandar? if Santandar is involved, watch out below.



Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:40 | 2349463 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

"They Deserve it".

Why don't you Hindis bitch about the Mughuls?  I mean come on, they invaded, raped, pillaged and enslaved you a couple of hundred years before the portugese and the british.

I don't think they get brought up as much because they're moslem.  And we all know that moslems play by a different set of rules.  More, shall we say, traditional rules.

Or how about those Aryans?  They invaded way before that, and brought you that wonderful caste system after they raped, pillaged and enslaved.  No complaints there either, huh?

Europe and America have simply made the mistake of trying to improve the station of others.  If they had picked up on the old Roman methods of annihilations, enslavement and colonialism in the ancient sense we wouldn't have this incessant pissing and moaning.

goddamn age of enlightenment hippies.  Socialist do gooders will be the death of us all.

So now, for bringing medicines, electricty, clean water, copious amounts of food and that funny thing called equal human suffrage and rights to the world, we get demonized.

When Old Uncle Sam finally hears enough, says Fuck It and ties on a mean drunk, you'll have a reason to complain.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:46 | 2349500 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

C'mon LF, that was then, this is now. 

This rape is current. You represent the anonymous face of the white man's "bringing goodness and civilization" to the barbarians of the east, heathen, un-cultured.

It has been singularly and in every aspect been proven, beyond a shadow of doubt that white nation's intervention in any other nation's affairs has ended badly for the other nation.

It's been a pretty continuous rape for well nigh 600 years now from the Eurozone LF, so just face it. It's all good, but we can deal with what is now, NOW.

Uncle Sam.....hmmm.....I went to school in Troy New York, the home of Uncle Sam... too funny. I think Uncle Sam needs to look inside his own striped pants nad see that all si well and peaceful, and leave the world to do like-wise.


Mon, 04/16/2012 - 16:35 | 2349695 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture


China is about to nationalize all the western high tech assembly plants.

It will be a fair exchange, as China will pay with T-bonds and euro-bonds it wants to dump anyway.

Timing, timing....

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 00:16 | 2350534 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Hardly anyone obeys the Prime Directive these days...

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 16:48 | 2349748 Reptil
Reptil's picture

YPF was a state consortium to begin with. PUBLIC PROPERTY.

It was given away by the Argentinian elite, so they could bathe in luxury (for a while).
at 0:58:05 in (but it's worth watching as a whole, since this will be the future of the USA - until the popular revolt in Argentina - I'm not so sure about that in the USA)

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:55 | 2349100 blu
blu's picture

No kidding, whodathunkit?

Shit just got real, baby.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:58 | 2349109 CH1
CH1's picture

All your oil are belong to us!

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:11 | 2349340 dwayne elizando
dwayne elizando's picture

I was hoping to wear Blythes silver shorts......on my head!

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:28 | 2349212 EBR MOD 0
EBR MOD 0's picture

Sure, show up at my door..the hung over easter bunny has a sure you dress in appropriate casual attire.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:03 | 2349125 Arnold Ziffel
Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:33 | 2349227 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!! Oh, was I too soon?

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:34 | 2349434 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Fitting, since Argentina is where many former Nazis landed

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 16:35 | 2349690 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Argentina is a valuable cautionary tale.  They've tried socialism, fascism and nationalism with little positive affect.  Many say the USA will follow Japan's sorry path.  No such luck.  We will soon be Argentinians.  Get out your pots and pans, everybody!!!!

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:08 | 2349140 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

I agree with all of you, Bakunin Anarchy or Enlightened Despot are the best choices we have now.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 12:58 | 2348919 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

If you are in the U.S. or Europe, that decision has already been made.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:02 | 2348933 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

They may think they have made their decision, but we will see how this all plays out.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:12 | 2348961 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

we will indeed.  long black markets and local thugs.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:20 | 2348984 Manthong
Manthong's picture

How soon before "We are all Argentinians, now"?

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 16:35 | 2349701 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

We're over 50% now.  Call it when you are ready.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:21 | 2348986 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

did everyone get their tax returns in on time in the old currency because its almost on like donkey kong

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:58 | 2349104 salvadordaly
Mon, 04/16/2012 - 16:26 | 2349224 i-dog
i-dog's picture

You can be sure it is coordinated ... Ordo ab Chao.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:07 | 2348950 t_kAyk
t_kAyk's picture

Speaking of...

"In language that might have been lifted straight from the Nazi lexicon, these establishments will be known as ‘closed-hospitality’ centers.

The incarcerates will be undocumented – meaning unwanted – refugees flooding in from North Africa, particularly the once prosperous and richest country in the Maghreb belt, namely Libya.

Most of the Mediterranean countries are in the thick of the refugee tide, but Greece is so far the only country that plans to compulsorily pen them up.

The first ‘reception center’ is scheduled to open at a former army base near Athens in the next few weeks."

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:21 | 2349177 CPL
CPL's picture

I've been reading about that, the reeducation camps are built by Israeli contractors.


Oh sweet irony.  Let us not forgot the past to avoid repeating it.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:58 | 2349273 smiler03
smiler03's picture

So you think illegal immigrants are directly comparable to prisoners of war?

"Currently it can be safely estimated that there are 1 million illegal immigrants “in transit” from Turkey to Europe and many of them will end up in Greece and allocate themselves in the newly founded ghettos in the centre of Athens, in the port of Patras or in various locations in the countryside, thus adding up to the 2.5 million illegal aliens already present in Greece."

This in a country with a population of just over 11 million.

Meanwhile in the US..................

"On any given day, more than 32,000 people who are not American citizens are held in detention in a patchwork of county jails, privately run prisons and federal facilities while the government decides whether to deport them. In the year ending Sept. 30, 2008, more than 407,000 people spent time in custody, according to Immigration and Customs Enforcement."


Mon, 04/16/2012 - 16:07 | 2349578 Matt
Matt's picture

re: how to escape the concentration camp.

Tad out of date, assumes things like "due process". Love the reference to "Flaming Faggot Guises".

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:29 | 2349012 RafterManFMJ
Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:11 | 2349153 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You'll have both and you'll like it (after a stint in a re-education camp).

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 12:58 | 2348911 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture


How soon until any and every government follows suit in a world in which excess liquidity sloshing around makes expropriation of vital energy producing assets a key prerogative? And how long until the resultant (accelerating) collapse in faith of the monetary system, leads government to declare "monetary self-sufficiency" and confiscate everything that is not nailed down. In exchange for worthless pieces of paper of course. Just to make it "fair".

One answer for both Gene and the above question....

"....and poof, it's gone!"

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:24 | 2348997 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

While confiscating everything and handing out the worthless pieces of paper I suspect they will collect much lead until the burden causes them to keel over.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:02 | 2348931 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

can we try how they do it in Bhutan for a few years because it can't be any worse than what we've got now.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:08 | 2349317 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Happiness Index, FTW!

But they've been compromised too. Sadly by India, who is helping them de-velop a true british style demoncrazy!


Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:31 | 2349419 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

appreciate the posts/insights ori...hapiness something not encouraged in the west as there's no way to tax or profit from it yet.  radical idea that hapiness thingy

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:41 | 2349466 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Thanks GH and yes, can't tax it, won't allow it seems to be the dominant theme west-side, eh?


Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:04 | 2348938 navy62802
navy62802's picture

There are those who still think they are holding the pass against a revolution that may be coming up the road. But they are gazing in the wrong direction. The revolution is behind them. It went by in the Night of Depression, singing songs to freedom.

- Garet Garrett, The Revolution Was (1938)

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:14 | 2348969 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Fascism, Socialism, Communism ?  There is not a RCH (Red Cunt Hair) of difference ?    Monedas  2012   You can throw Trotsky-ism in there too !  This not the 1930s when the "perceived differences" were to kill for !

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:22 | 2348990 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

That's because everyone is still working in the wrong idea-space.


The issue isn't which of the above - it's "state-ism".  Once the state devours all, it kind of doesn't matter what they call themselves.

I do NOT welcome our new statist overlords.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:56 | 2349103 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Right !  A real alternative would be a limited government democracy ! Like ours used to be....and evolve towards more freedom....not less !   Monedas  2012   Comedy Jihad Shit Happens

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:20 | 2349175 machineh
machineh's picture



Two for the price of one (and more than you can ever afford). 

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 19:19 | 2350051 Reptil
Reptil's picture

euhm, let's call it by the old nomer ok?

Mussolini quote: 'Fascism should ... be called corporatism'
Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:43 | 2348981 cossack55
cossack55's picture

And this is diff from the EO Barry signed last friday in re Nat Gas..............?


Supporting Safe and Responsible Development of Unconventional Domestic Natural Gas Resources

Signed 13 Apr 12

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:02 | 2349117 solgundy
solgundy's picture

the US currently has fascism.............


Fascism ( /?fæ??z?m/) is a radical authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2] Fascists seek rejuvenation of their nation based on commitment to an organic national community where its individuals are united together as one people in national identity by suprapersonal connections of ancestry, culture, and blood through a totalitarian single-party state that seeks the mass mobilization of a nation through discipline, indoctrination, physical education, and eugenics.[3][4] Fascism seeks to purify the nation of foreign influences that are deemed to be causing degeneration of the nation or of not fitting into the national culture.[5]

Fascism promotes political violence and war, as forms of direct action that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality.[3][6] Fascists commonly utilize paramilitary organizations for violence against opponents or to overthrow a political system.[7] Fascism opposes multiple ideologies: conservatism, liberalism, and two major forms of socialismcommunism and social democracy.[8] Fascism claims to represent a synthesis of cohesive ideas previously divided between traditional political ideologies.[9] To achieve its goals, the fascist state purges forces, ideas, people, and systems deemed to be the cause of decadence and degeneration.[10]

The fascist party is a vanguard party designed to initiate a revolution from above and to organize the nation upon fascist principles.[11] The fascist party and state is led by a supreme leader who exercises a dictatorship over the party, the government and other state institutions.[12] Fascism rejects liberal democracy based upon majority rule and the parliamentary system but fascists deny that they are against democracy as a whole.[13] Fascism condemns liberal democracy for basing government legitimacy on quantity rather than quality, and for causing quarreling partisan politics.[14] Fascists claim that their ideology is a trans-class movement, advocating resolution to domestic class conflict within a nation to secure national solidarity.[15] It claims that its goal of social nationalization of society emancipates the nation's proletariat, and promotes the assimilation of all classes into proletarian national culture.[15] While fascism opposes domestic class conflict, fascism believes that bourgeois-proletarian conflict primarily exists in national conflict between proletarian nations versus bourgeois nations; fascism declares support for the victory of proletarian nations.[16]

Fascists advocate a state-directed, regulated economy that is dedicated to the nation; the use and primacy of regulated private property and private enterprise contingent upon service to the nation, the use of state enterprise where private enterprise is failing or is inefficient, and autarky. It supports criminalization of strikes by employees and lockouts by employers because it deems these acts as prejudicial to the national community.[17]

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:27 | 2349207 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

You can add Chile, the coup d'etat by the CIA (September 11, 1973) and the installation of Gerneral Augusto Pinochet to the list. All bought to by "The Chicago School of Ecomonics" Milton Friedman.

In the years leading up to the coup, U.S. trainers, many from the CIA, had whipped the Chilean military into an anti-Communist frenzy, persuading them that socialists were de facto Russian spies, a force alien to Chilean society-a homegrown "enemy within". In fact, it was the military that had become the true domestic enemy, ready to turn its weapons on the population it was sworn to protect.

Roughly 13,500 civilians were arrested, loaded onto trucks and imprisoned. Thousands ended up in the two main football stadiums in Santiago, the Chile Stadium and the huge National Stadium. Soldiers prowled the bleachers with hooded collaborators who pointed out "subversives"; the ones who were selected were hauled off to locker rooms and skyboxes transformed into makeshift torture chambers.

More than 3,200 people were disappeared or executed, at least 80,000 were imprisoned and 200,000 fled the country.

The proposals in the final document bore a striking resemblance to those found it Milton Friedman's Capitalism and Freedom: privatization, deregulation, and cut to social spending (Austerity)-the free-market trinity.

Sound familar? Chilling is the September 11th date. And where did Chile's military learn the torture techniques? You guessed it. From the CIA and The School of The America's.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:40 | 2349250 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

One thing is missing: IMF and its global pillage since BW. All in the name of the unwitting US taxpayer.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:16 | 2349369 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

A simpler definition is;

Fascism=corporate control of government.

Communism+government control of corporatism.

Everything else is pretty much the same for the serfs.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:23 | 2349397 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Well said. Or like Davila, a Colombian ,put it : what is the
difference of being ruled by a small group of shareholders
or a politburo ?

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:01 | 2349118 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

"fascism or socialism?"

It's called peronism which is both.

We don`t cry for you Argentina.

The truth is, we never loved you.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:13 | 2349354 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

I think they never loved you either, man.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:26 | 2349408 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Kind of like a jilted lover ? ;-)

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:14 | 2349355 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

I think they never loved you either, man.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:03 | 2349127 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Read this this morning. Looks like shit is moving faster than expected.

Downstream Demand Destruction for Oil THURSDAY, APRIL 12, 2012 12:53 PM ne of the most pronounced trends in the Western world since the onset of the global financial crisis has been the plummeting demand for petroleum and the subsequent losses for the refinery industry, which has been squeezed by a combination of declining credit availability, higher prices for input crude and lower demand/prices for refined products (over-capacity). This ever-deepening trend was discussed on TAE earlier in Petroplus - The Tip of an Iceberg.

What we are witnessing within the refinery industry and the petroleum industry in general is a situation in which higher prices, mainly fueled by leveraged speculation, geopolitical tensions and rising demand in the East, are burning themselves out by destroying demand in a positive feedback spiral. Here is a portion of the conclusion reached in the post linked above:

As is the case with most analyses by official institutions such as the IEA, we can safely assume that the effects of credit contraction on refinery utilization are being under-estimated. Refineries forced to scale back or go off-line in the short to medium-term will negatively impact crude oil demand, and we should see this add to the pressure currently weighing on crude oil prices. Lower prices will then feed back into the marginal financial pressures facing the oil industry.

For those who think that oil prices can only go up, up and away from here on out, I am still waiting to hear how plummeting demand for crude oil from refineries, which are now dropping off like flies, will contribute in the short-term. Some may argue that the developing economies of the East will single-handedly keep prices elevated, but they are ignoring a) the speculative premium built in to oil prices and b) the fact that these emerging economies do not exist in a bubble that is isolated from the effects of demand destruction in the West, i.e. a decoupled global economy.

Demand for oil is certainly still rising in the emerging economies at a rate faster than demand is falling in the West, but the question is how long before the latter burns out the former. In our hopelessly inter-connected global economy, there is little doubt in my mind that it will happen, just like higher oil prices will burn themselves out by feeding back into downstream demand destruction in the refinery industry and businesses/households. Anyway, here is the latest on the Iceberg that has had its way with Western refineries, courtesy of the Financial Times:

Energy: Refined out of existence


Sunoco petrol stations are a fixture of the US eastern seaboard, their blue-and-yellow awnings touting the brand's status as official fuel of Nascar racing. But after July, none of the petrol they sell will actually be made by Sunoco.


The 126-year-old company's decision to quit the refining business is the latest sign of the tumult in downstream fuel markets that is accompanying a global shift in oil use. As consumption flags in developed economies and grows in emerging markets, refineries are dying from Japan to Pennsylvania, the Sunoco home state where oil wells drilled in the 1850s begat the petroleum age.


The upheaval highlights the challenges facing policy makers as rising petrol prices endanger growth in the world's biggest economy. Washington has floated largely predictable responses: drill more, punish speculators, work harder towards energy self-sufficiency. But global trading on markets for petrol, diesel and heating oil highlight the persistent fact of America's energy interdependence.


Half the refining capacity on the populous US east coast is set to disappear. Sunoco has pulled the plug on two refineries already and warns that another in Philadelphia will close in July if no buyer steps forward. ConocoPhillips is trying to sell a refinery in Pennsylvania, idle since last year. On May 1, it will spin off its refining business. More than 3m barrels of daily refinery capacity have closed in western countries, since the financial crisis, says the International Energy Agency, the west's oil watchdog. Emerging economies have meanwhile added 4.2m b/d in capacity, with another 1.8m b/d coming this year. "It's really a tale of two markets," says Toril Bosoni, IEA senior oil analyst. "You have very contrasting pictures for economic growth and demand, and refining is reflecting what's going on elsewhere."


A good vantage point is Marcus Hook, a borough of 2,400 people squeezed into Pennsylvania's industrial south-east corner. J.N. Pew, founder of the Sun Oil Company, built a refinery there in 1901 to process crude borne by ships from the legendary Texas gusher known as Spindletop. It was one of many refineries to line the wide Delaware river. "If you were a child who grew up in this region, the refineries have been part of [its] fabric ... from the first moments of awareness," says Patrick Meehan, a Republican congressman who represents the area. Among his memories: "The smell."


Late last year, Sunoco put the Marcus Hook plant on the auction block and stopped feeding it crude after losing nearly $1bn in the past three years at its east coast refineries. The problems began at the docks. Marcus Hook relied on foreign oil delivered by tanker including 34.6m barrels from Nigeria, 5m from Norway, 3.3m from Angola and 3m from Azerbaijan last year, government records show.


Low in sulphur and yielding lots of high-value products such as petrol, this was some of the most expensive oil on the planet. Nigeria's Qua Iboe, a representative variety, averaged $114 a barrel in 2011. For several weeks, a barrel of Qua Iboe cost more than a barrel of reformulated gasoline blendstock, ensuring negative margins for refineries such as Marcus Hook. West Texas Intermediate crude, similar in quality, averaged just $95 last year. Texas oil production rose 25 per cent to top half a billion barrels for the first time since 1998. But Marcus Hook could not buy it, as no pipelines link it with Texas.


"You've got crude oil in this country. It's just a question of getting it to where the refineries are," says Denis Stephano, labour union president at ConocoPhillips's mothballed Pennsylvania refinery. In his union hall, Mr Stephano points to a map of the US's piecemeal pipeline system, which hangs next to a placard reading "Save refineries, save lives!"


In Washington, the signature energy battle of the past year has been over the Keystone XL pipeline, which a company wants to build to connect Alberta's oil sands with Texas. This would be likely to raise depressed Canadian prices but would do little to save refineries such as Marcus Hook. Most Canadian oil is too heavy to be processed there.


Crude oil prices soared back above $100 a barrel last year as the revolution in Libya halted production. The gains for crude outpaced the rise in petrol prices, which began to rally in earnest only after news of the latest refinery closures in the US and Europe. Petroplus, Europe's largest independent refiner, filed for insolvency in January and has been lining up buyers for five plants.


Keeping a lid on refined fuel prices has been weak consumption. US petrol demand has fallen steadily since 2007 as cars became more fuel-efficient, fuel marketers blended more corn-based ethanol into their product and high unemployment kept highway travel light. This wedged refineries between high input costs and a poor appetite for their fuel. "The downstream industry is the flywheel in the oil system," says Kevin Lindemer, an oil industry consultant. "Right now we're seeing big changes on both sides of the flywheel."


The US story is echoed throughout the west. Oil demand in Europe contracted by 320,000 b/d last year, the IEA says. Emerging-world demand more than offset these falls, led by countries that Barclays has nicknamed "Bics" – Brazil, India, China and Saudi Arabia. In the past five years their oil demand has grown by 5.1m b/d, while demand everywhere else has declined by 1.4m b/d, says Paul Horsnell, head of commodities research at the UK-based bank.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:18 | 2349174 citta vritti
citta vritti's picture

gully - many thanks. 

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:24 | 2349193 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

citta vritti

Reading that is confusing.

Really how does a refinery lose a BILLION dollars when prices are at an alltime high?

I suspect something very fishy is happening and someone needs to connect the dots.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 17:26 | 2349845 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Price in gold for your answer.

The dollar bubble is causing malinvestment.  It's really very simple.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:29 | 2349214 theprofromdover
theprofromdover's picture

I guess Marcus Hook didn't see the future coming down the road to meet them. Either that or they didn't care and looked for govt bail-out when the time came.

What part of 'evolve or die' doesn't their management understand. I think they owe their communities an answer.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:37 | 2349240 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


Somebody counted on a pipeline.

Funny that the quote is from a Labor Union guy.


"You've got crude oil in this country. It's just a question of getting it to where the refineries are," says Denis Stephano, labour union president at ConocoPhillips's mothballed Pennsylvania refinery. In his union hall, Mr Stephano points to a map of the US's piecemeal pipeline system, which hangs next to a placard reading "Save refineries, save lives!"

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:05 | 2349137 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

The Nazis and Facists were socialists, even if Stalin claimed otherwise.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:22 | 2349180 citta vritti
citta vritti's picture

yes - nazi = national socialist

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:11 | 2349151 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

These Globalist's aren't even hideing it anymore.  They're all moving in unisome.

Executive Order: Feds To Take Control of Domestic Natural Gas Production

EPA Set To Move Within One Week

While Americans focused their attention on the Colombian controversy involving U.S. Secret Service agents, prostitutes and excessive drinking, President Obama quietly signed his latest Presidential Executive Order.

The Supporting Safe and Responsible Development of Unconventional Domestic Natural Gas Resources Executive Order seeks to create what amounts to a Presidential super committee that will oversee the regulation and development of the ‘unconventional’ natural gas industry for the purpose of ensuring a long-term natural gas supply for the United States, as well as to do so in a safe and environmentally responsible manner.

Excerpts (Read the complete E.O.):

While natural gas production is carried out by private firms, and States are the primary regulators of onshore oil and gas activities, the Federal Government has an important role to play by regulating oil and gas activities on public and Indian trust lands, encouraging greater use of natural gas in transportation, supporting research and development aimed at improving the safety of natural gas development and transportation activities, and setting sensible, cost-effective public health and environmental standards to implement Federal law and augment State safeguards.

Because efforts to promote safe, responsible, and efficient development of unconventional domestic natural gas resources are underway at a number of executive departments and agencies (agencies), close interagency coordination is important for effective implementation of these programs and activities.  To formalize and promote ongoing interagency coordination, this order establishes a high-level, interagency working group that will facilitate coordinated Administration policy efforts to support safe and responsible unconventional domestic natural gas development.

The target of the legislation is what many believe is the unrestricted and out-of-control drilling practices of hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, a process which blasts water, sand and chemicals underground to stimulate the release of natural gas. Fracking has led to health concerns from environmentalists and others for its potential to pollute the air and contaminate drinking water. Some theories also suggest that fracturing may raise the likelihood of earthquakes in areas like the central United States, an argument that many scientists agree is plausible.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 16:47 | 2349752 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Let me fix something for you.

"The target of the legislation is what many believe is the unrestricted and out-of-control drilling and marketing practices of largely independent natural gas companies."

Once we get these companies all aggregated and regulated, the market will be orderly, just like oil.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:35 | 2349235 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


And what timing

April 16, 2012 Obama throws U.K.’s Cameron under the bus over Falklands

Only a month after lavishly praising U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron, President Barack Obama ditched him at a press conference in Colombia.

Obama’s turnabout came April 15 when he was asked about Argentina’s demand for control of the Falkland Islands, which are home to roughly 3,000 British citizens. The islands are located in the South Atlantic some 300 miles from Argentina.

“Our position on this is that we are going to remain neutral… this is not something that we typically intervene in,” Obama replied to the question.

Obama also mislabeled the islands as “The Maldives,” partly because Argentina’s government says the Falkland Islands should be called the “Malvinas” islands.

In fact, the Maldive Islands are in the Indian ocean, not in the South Atlantic. They are some 8,200 miles from the Falklands.

Obama’s neutral stance contrasts with his fulsome praise for Cameron and the U.K. during Cameron’s state visit March 14.

“For decades, our troops have stood together on the battlefield… So, David, thank you, as always, for being such an outstanding ally, partner and friend,” Obama declared.

“As I said this morning, because of our efforts, our alliance is as strong as it has ever been,” he added.

The islands have been populated by British citizens since 1833. In April 1982, an Argentinian invasion force occupied the islands, but was ejected by a British fleet that sailed 7,800 miles from the U.K.

The Falklands are now increasingly valuable because the surrounding seabed is expected to contain oil and natural-gas reserves.

In March, Argentinian foreign minister Hector Timerman slammed the U.K.’s plans for oil exploration. Without approval from Argentina, any drilling would be illegal and would prompt civil and criminal charges, he declared.

“The South Atlantic’s oil and gas are property of the Argentine people,” he claimed.

However, Obama’s familiarity with the three-decade-old dispute is unclear.

Neither Cameron nor Obama acknowledged discussing the Argentinian claim during the March state visit.

Also, Obama said the United States “typically” does not intervene in the territorial dispute.

However, the U.S. provided critical aid to the 1982 British naval campaign that defeated the Argentinian invasion force. The aid, approved by President Ronald Reagan, included spy-satellite data and advanced heat-seeking missiles that were used to shoot down Argentina’s anti-ship bombers.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 16:31 | 2349680 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

Hey fuck the corporate shitbags. Nationalize when it suits the new crime boss of the syndicate, when it suits thme. No mere person of rights will get shit, as usual.

No fucking honor among thieves anymore.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 17:00 | 2349789 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

It looks like Argentina is going to go through another implosion that they went through back in 2000. 

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 12:55 | 2348903 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Shit it seems that Obama signs a new executive order every weekend.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:01 | 2348928 EBR MOD 0
EBR MOD 0's picture

Nah he doesn't do that while on vacation...We can only hope he works maybe 8 to 5...

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 12:56 | 2348905 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Nationalizing oil, bucking the U.S. led war against drug legalization.

Sounds like South America needs to be liberated.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:15 | 2348971 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Sounds to me the ones to be "liberated" are far from South America. Say, in the northern hemisphere.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:17 | 2348978 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

can their Presidents shoot residents without trial yet?

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:34 | 2349035 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

No, it seems  trials and the right to defense for people are off up there in the north.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 12:56 | 2348906 Appleseed
Appleseed's picture

silver wheaton down 4+% today, do you think this is the reason?

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 12:58 | 2348909 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

That's what is always so funny about the physical gold holders. The government will do whatever it needs to survive, I wouldn't be surprised to see another outlawing of US citizens to own gold and a mandatory price that they have to sell it to the government at.  You better not just be burying it in your backyard, better spread it across multiple countries or something because you never know which one will take ownership.  Only survival investment that makes sense is guns and ammo, the rest you can accumulate by wisely using your investment

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:22 | 2348991 youngman
youngman's picture

With guns and ammo...and I have to to use can HARVEST the rest

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:42 | 2349254 fightthepower
fightthepower's picture

How many gunfights do you expect to win, asshole?  Other people have guns, are war veterans’, and train.  The real question is, why kind of psychopath wants to go around robbing his neighbors? 

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:42 | 2349255 fightthepower
fightthepower's picture

What a dick. 

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:51 | 2349514 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

careful man, you'll end up on his ear necklace /sarc off.

These tacticool ninja assholes make me chuckle.  They'll barge into some poor slob's house lookiing to bag all the canned wax beans and catch the business end of some old Iver Johnson single shot right in the teeth.  SAAPI plates be damned.

It's about networks and community.  Gats are good, I yell about them all the time,  but you need more friends than gats.  And water.  You need water too, to share with your friends.

best of luck.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 17:29 | 2349851 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Better have omniscience or you are going to catch a sniper's bullet real fast.

Better to just follow the non-aggression principle.  That is the path of least violence/threat of violence and most freedom.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 12:58 | 2348910 jjsilver
jjsilver's picture

Executive orders under color of law violate the constitution.


"An unconstitutional act is not a law; it confers no rights; it imposes no duties; it affords no protection; it creates no office; it is in legal contemplation, as inoperative as though it had never been passed."
[Norton v. Shelby County, 118 US 425 (1885)]

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:34 | 2349233 blu
blu's picture

What Constitution?

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 16:32 | 2349683 IAmNotMark
IAmNotMark's picture

The one in some Washington DC museum.  The president used to swear TO uphold and defend it.  Now, he swears AT upholding and defending it.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:01 | 2348912 moskov
moskov's picture

A real punishment for the suckers who believe the wealth of speculations

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 12:58 | 2348913 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

So anyway about those silver miners

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 12:57 | 2348915 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

More to come,  Brazil and China are already socialist states (and they are supposed to lead the world's recovery).  America is a facist state along with europe.  Now let's see, are there any examples of how a facist state has responded to socialism before... ...oh crap.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 12:59 | 2348917 battle axe
battle axe's picture

So YPF is not producing enough, so they get nationalized, this will be great for foreign investment, idiots. 

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:01 | 2349123 Sancho Ponzi
Sancho Ponzi's picture

This may serve as a clue:


'In November last year, YPF, which was privatised in 1993, announced a major find of 1bn barrels of shale oil.'


Mon, 04/16/2012 - 12:58 | 2348920 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Corrupt politicians bullying and stealing from corrupt multi-national corporations, if humanity is lucky enough these two will kill each other off fighting over whatever assets are left.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:18 | 2348976 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Hey Global, you reed too much corporative press.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:01 | 2348922 Financial_Guard...
Financial_Guardian_Angel's picture

Eva Peron is smiling in her grave somewhere...


Don't cry for me Argentina (oil), the truth is I will never leave you...

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:03 | 2348926 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture


"The Nationalizations Begin: Argentina Takes Over Oil And Gas Producer"

Yes the 'genius' of this plan is bankrupt politicians desire others peoples profitable enterprises/assets and so literally steal it (this is the entire basis of socialism, Marxism, indeed Govt itself)

The brilliant bit is whatever politicians/Govt touch/manage turns to crap ...give it a few years and productivity and efficiency will tank, commercial management will turn into a tragic political football, the profit will disappear and before you know it what was once a profit bearing growing enterprise is stagnating, bankrupt and ruined (see trains, buses, healthcare, education, housing, etc)

some peoples eyes are bigger than their tummy


Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:05 | 2348941 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

"desire other peoples profitable enterprises/assets and so literally steal it"...most of those profitable enterprises/assets were stolen in the first place with the complicity of government, the cycle continues.  The solution is in your ZH name.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:10 | 2348953 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Well, yes, if you ignore all the other cycles of theft (facilitated by the government) that have already occured.  For someone who claims that moniker, you better do a little more homework.  Now take that foot out of your mouth.  long black markets and local thugs.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:09 | 2348955 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Not sure I'm clever enough to decipher your heavy intellectualism but it seems you've lead me to full enlightenment: Private = Good, Government = Bad.

Wisdom for the ages, Thanks.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:25 | 2348998 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Well, bad is good and good is bad as the King ran a private government. To what US citizens opposed a republic, that is a public government.

But hey, never stop US citizenism.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:37 | 2349044 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous said:

Well, bad is good and good is bad as the King ran a private government. To what US citizens opposed a republic, that is a public government.

But hey, never stop US citizenism.

You sure seem to place a lot of faith and confidence in US citizenism.

One wonders why...


Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:04 | 2349133 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

I merely observe.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:14 | 2349165 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You mad.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:34 | 2349431 akak
akak's picture

No, you merely troll.

That is, when you are not shitting on the side of a Chinese road.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:52 | 2349524 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

I wish AA would tell us what he "observed" when the chins blew away that MI6 Brit and started the manhunt for that ostentatious son gone bad of that big wig party boss.

Didn't see too much of him last week, did we?

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 16:23 | 2349651 akak
akak's picture

Didn't see too much of him last week, did we?

So many non-Chinese online forums to troll, so little time ....

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:04 | 2349288 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

"whatever politicians/Govt touch/manage turns to crap ...give it a few years and productivity and efficiency will tank"

I don't agree.

The market already works to eliminate profit everywhere. (E.g. the theoretical equillibrium in economics is an "evenly rotating economy" where there is no possible opportunity to improve and no profit to be had.)

Without market disciplines, what the government touches will turn into crap - becoming an engine of wealth destruction - within mere days.


Mon, 04/16/2012 - 16:37 | 2349713 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

I'm not sure about that. Profits should exist, as the indicator that you are delivering what customers actually want.

Unless you are operating in the...shall we say... non-Von Mises world of "economics."

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 18:20 | 2349953 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Dr Acula  -  profits (surplus productivity) have been made for thousands of years, otherwise we'd still be in a cave chumping beatroot

I don't know where you get your "theoretical equillibrium in economics" but i'm presuming some academics backside!

where we don't make a profit is in Govt and monopoly enterprises both of which ultimately go bankrupt once they run out of profitable people to suck off

we at least agree Govt is an engine of wealth destruction

sooner we bin that rotten institution the better (and sooner the green shoots of recovery/profitability)

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 12:59 | 2348927 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

After having expropriated a bunch of petroleum companies, didn't Mr. Chavez suddenly become...sick?

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:59 | 2349107 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

more specifically, he became putsched

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 12:59 | 2348929 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

The real question to be asking is:

"How much longer until oil exporters no longer accept other nations' fiat confetti as payment?"

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:41 | 2349058 MunX
MunX's picture

They get more than fiat confetti, they get F-16's. We get oil priced in USD's, they get Raytheon products.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:50 | 2349084 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



We get oil priced in USD's, they a smaller and smaller percentage of their population get Raytheon products to live well.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:54 | 2349093 MunX
MunX's picture

I don't see the difference.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:46 | 2349263 blu
blu's picture

I can easily see a day coming when the "governments" of most of these developing nations consist of little more than mobilized armies that run all over the place confiscating things to exchange for more weapons. Until they eventually kill everyone and exchange everything, and go silent. Just massive cemeteries where entire countries used to be.

Imperialism of another sort. Malthusian imperialism, in fact. A cult of death for profit at the end of the world. If I can see it then everyone else can.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:53 | 2349529 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

You looking for a rig, a rig big enough to haul that tanker?

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:01 | 2348935 Catullus
Catullus's picture

They nationalize the assets only to privatize them later by "selling" the assets. What a joke.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:04 | 2348940 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

They nationalize the assets only to privatize them later by "selling" the assets to their rich friends

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:05 | 2348943 Catullus
Catullus's picture

The Russian oligarch model

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:20 | 2348985 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

You know nothing.

Too bad.

Your brains have been washed up.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 16:29 | 2349666 akak
akak's picture

Says the kneejerk statist defender of an increasingly out-of-control, quasi-fascist regime.

You disgust me, as does every spineless, submissive pro-authoritarian Quisling like you.  You are not a human being, you are a lemming.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:07 | 2348945 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

they'll be next to worthless after politicians have 'managed' the business for a few years 

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:11 | 2348959 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Kinda like GM?

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 17:38 | 2349873 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Kind of like Gazprom. 

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:02 | 2348937 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

The simple fact of the matter is that government, of some form, is necessary and that government needs financed.  Throughout history, many governments have operated revenue-generating industries to supplement tax income (one need think only of the relationship, through the years, between the English Crown and the British East India Company).

Oil, gas, and coal are obvious and natural industries for government to operate to generate revenue (since oil and gas are under the ground of the "people" and not easily accounted for in any standard property law).  If the choice is between taxation and government operating a revenue-generating industry crucial to everyone, I would prefer that government operate an industry.  Of course, with modern mobocracy-fascist debtor nations, this is unlikely to sate the state's voracious appetite for resources.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:08 | 2348951 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

"The simple fact of the matter is that government, of some form, is necessary.."

Ok, what is Govt good at?

You have 3,000 years of history and 300 countries to find something, anything, this rotten to the core institution can actually manage ...go on, find something

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:32 | 2349023 ronin12
ronin12's picture

The roads LOL.



Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:11 | 2349152 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

SLV naked shorts.


Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:37 | 2349041 crawldaddy
crawldaddy's picture

is your ass currently sitting in a chair in a safe environment, Is the air you breathing toxic? is the food you eating poison?  I love hearing a bunch of fat whiney pansy asses cry about, but what has it done for me.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:47 | 2349076 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


is your ass currently sitting in a chair in a safe environment, Is the air you breathing toxic? is the food you eating poison?

You just keep believing that. The government exists to protect your interests. The USDA is run by Monsanto, but it's for the good of everyone. Hillary Clinton gave her personal OK for food from Japan, so there's no need to run it past a geiger counter. She's looking out for you.


Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:19 | 2349167 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

What a bunch of bullshit.

Isn't it enough to simply say that he is wrong? Instead we need to be informed of at least two new conspiracy theories. No wonder people laugh at your comments.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:56 | 2349540 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

so, you don't believe in conspiracy theories?  Contrails from the HAARP will see to you, naysayer.  /sarc off

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:26 | 2349198 machineh
machineh's picture

So government invented the chair?

Oh wait, you're right -- the ELECTRIC CHAIR. Bwa ha ha ,.,

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:49 | 2349083 Chump
Chump's picture

Well, if this post is indicative we can cross "education" off the list of "Things Government Does Well."

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:06 | 2349132 trembo slice
trembo slice's picture

Yes.  Good thing the government keeps the atmosphere in check.  Otherwise it would just leave the Earth and we'd all be fucked.  Thank God the FDA exist to help me decide whether or not food is edible.  Are you shitting me? 

I love hearing a bunch of pro-statists, simple-minded peons acting like government, not water, is the key to sustaining complex organisms on this planet.  If it weren't for government, the water would have evaporated by now too...

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:03 | 2349308 crawldaddy
crawldaddy's picture

no just poisoned worse than it already is genius.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:37 | 2349450 akak
akak's picture

Governments have been throughout history by FAR the worst polluters --- from the Roman mercury mines of Almaden in Spain to the US Army and Air Force's numerous and vast toxic dumps on military bases around the world.

Killing the inane arguments of brainwashed statists: like shooting fish in a barrel!

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:59 | 2349554 trembo slice
trembo slice's picture

Damn!  Who knew socio-economic and environmental issues were so easy to resolve.  Just place anything and everything under governmental jurisdiction and they wave their magic wand over that shit and it's all good.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:15 | 2349163 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

I eat healthy and am safe DESPITE government and its corrupt thuggish aparatchiks

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 20:44 | 2350194 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


Is the air you breathing toxic? is the food you eating poison?

why yes, it is actually, thank you for asking.

GMO Toxicity: Bt Toxin Kills Human Kidney Cells


“Why in the World are They Spraying?” is an investigative documentary into one of the many agendas associated with chemtrail/geoengineering programs, “weather control”.


Controversy Should Not Stop Us From Developing Memory-Erasing Drugs, Neuroethicist Argues


of course, if you live in a parallel reality called DeNial, I'm sure you and yours are healthy, wealthy, and wise. . . eternal sunshine, spotless mind. . .

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 13:59 | 2349114 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Didn't I hear this question about Rome in "The Life of Brian" ?

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 14:07 | 2349141 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

There you go, ZG is another idiot troll.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 15:07 | 2349319 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>what is Govt good at?

Governments are better than the free market at providing security services.

Especially when they're securing people in ovens.


Mon, 04/16/2012 - 16:18 | 2349617 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

Well, at its most fundamental level, the purpose of government is to resolve disputes between individuals or groups over property and person.  It is preferable to have government as opposed to tribal vendettas.  Like it or not, government is a necessary evil of civilization.  The alternative is barbarism.

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