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NATO Member Turkey Says Syrian Jet Take Down Is A Hostile Act
Update 2: CLINTON: SYRIAN DOWNING OF TURKISH JET 'BRAZEN, UNACCEPTABLE. Just as we expected.
Update: All 28 NATO Allies will meet Tuesday following Turkey's request under article 4 of the Washington Treaty
And so the escalation-cum-provocation-cum false flag is complete. There was a time when shooting down a foreign jet over one's territory was considered self-defense. But not when the one doing the defending is perpetual media bogeyman Syria, which "unnamed sources say" kills hundreds, nay thousands of its own people daily, usually in round, soundbitey numbers. Of course, the other side to the story is irrelevant: the Western-led media is never known to fabricate stories that suit the status quo's power and military industrial complex interests. All that is relevant is for the west, aka NATO, aka Hillary Clinton to get an angle to push for provocation. She just got it. As we suspected on Friday, there was much more than met the eye with the Syrian take down of a Turkey F-4 jet. Remember what we said on Friday: "The only question remains whether Syria's act was offensive or defensive. Naturally, its version is one of self-defense. Turkey obviously will claim it was in its right to be wherever the plane may be, and will say this was an act of provocation. Then NATO, read Hillary Clinton, will promptly step in, and make this a case in which Turkey was in its right and that Syria committed an act of aggression. From there, things will just escalate, and can potentially deteriorate to a far more troubling scale, because as we reminded earlier, Syria has recently become a major symbol for NATO vs the Russia-China axis." And sure enough, just out from CNN: "Turkey declares jet shoot-down a 'hostile' act."
More:
Turkey officially considers the shooting down of one of its military fighter jets by Syria to be a hostile act, the Turkish Foreign Ministry said Sunday.
Turkey delivered the message in a diplomatic note to the Syrian consulate in Istanbul, calling the incident "a hostile movement," ministry spokesman Selcuk Unal told CNN.
Turkish search-and-rescue teams found the wreckage of the fighter jet in the Mediterranean Sea on Sunday, about 1,300 meters (4,260 feet) underwater, he said.
They have not reached the wreck yet, he added. There was no word about survivors of the two-man crew.
The incident raises the temperature between the two regional powers significantly.
Syria gave no warning before shooting down the F-4 Phantom jet which strayed into its territory, Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said Sunday in an appearance filled with tough talk against Syria.
He accused Syria of spreading "disinformation" about the incident.
"They have created the impression that Syria felt like it was an act of aggression and they shot it down. ... from our perspective that's not the case," Davutoglu told reporters.
The plane in the Friday incident was unarmed, not sending hostile signals, and identifiable as Turkish, he said.
"You have to first send a caution, a warning," he said in the first detailed Turkish statement on the international incident. "If the warning doesn't work, you scramble your planes, you send a stronger signal, you force the plane to land. There wasn't enough time to do any of that in the time that our plane was in Syrian airspace."
"We have to question how it is that an unarmed, solo flight got this response from the Syrians," he said.
He said the fighter jet was in international airspace when it was fired upon.
It had strayed into Syrian territory in a "short, unintentional violation," but was notified by the Turkish side that it had crossed the line, and returned to international airspace, Davutoglu said.
Next steps:
1. NATO issues formal complaint, with open-ended demands.
2. Russia, then China, respond in kind.
3. Geopolitical risk goes offerless.
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Nah, since Kennedy/Dim-ocrats rearrangement of our immigration system we make sure to give equal immigration opportunity to barbarian folks who hate us, and make it damned hard for people like us, who like us, work hard, are well educated.
GoldPenguin is wrong. Iraq under Saddam was a sanctuary for Christians. Uncle Allah took care of that (all praise to the Prophet) and the Christians left in Iraq who weren't killed once we killed their protector (Saddam) fled, to among other places, Syria.
Syria is until this day a Sanctuary for Christians and Assad protects them. All praise to the prophet, soon the cutting edge of the Sword of world Islam (US/HATO Military) will slay the Protector of Christians- Assad, and the Christians of Syria can be cut down in their thousands.
Allah Be Praised!
Plenty of Jews in Iran who don't want to leave. Plenty of Sephardic Jews who are "second-class" in Israel.
And europe is XY % "christian" as well. Don't go counting your christians.
Good try - about 2% at most. Like other Islamic countries, non-Muslims eventually disappear. This whole slaughter (like the one Assad's daddy pulled in Homs years ago) is all about keeping the minority Allewites in power.
Nonsense. Just all around garbage.
Thanks for your reasoned, rational and in-depth reply. I took that figure from a refugee who escaped Assad's daddy's dictatorship. (He was learning English.) Wiki says 10% but who knows since Syria is a close society. Which is another mystery - why in the hell would anyone espousing libertarian, republican or liberal principles support a dirtbag like Assad who runs a religious dictatorship?
30% is what I took from some dude too, so it seems you don't really know either.
I got ten percent Christian population in Syria.
SMB is a sophist. Highly Skilled liar. I give it to you sir, your lies are compelling and clever. And by your condemnation and by your quickness to condemn a man who provides sanctuary to Christians I can tell you yourself are no Christian.
Tonight, you will taste man flesh.
I grant you you will win, you will slay Assad the great protector of Christians, and you will bomb, shoot, nuke and otherwise destroy thousands of Christians. Extermination of Christian civilization.
It's like it's pre-ordained, the Christian US Sheople and military, will eagerly obey their master, though it entails slaying their own Christian brothers.
Shalom SMB, you win again, your team always wins.
No need to get into the numbers, let's just say the majority of Syrians support Assad. Or you know what? Maybe they don't, maybe it's close, but the majority doesn't want war. That we can say for sure.
With us or against us. I love it, you're a rare breed.
just another paid troll in a long line of paid trolls
OK, let's assume that the "majority" of Syrians support the minority religious authoritarian government,. Again, I ask, why make such a thug your hero? I daresay you are right. The majority of Syrians don't want war. But I'd bet that the bigger majority are tired of a religious, familial dynasty that rules via secret police and force. Again, you never answered the question - why (as a supposed fan of repubolican and libertarian principles) rush to make excuses for such a thug?
'
I repudiate you at the second word of your comment. "Let's" entails "let us"
There is no "us." You have enslaved my country and soon you will command my (supposedly) Christian military to slaughter my Christian Brothers in Syria, for your own pleasure and to slake your insatiable lust for Christian blood.
You are an open liar, though a skilled sophist, your words fall as elephant droppings on the ears of anyone not an indoctrinated Sheople (most of ZH by the red arrows against you thank God)
I can only hope and pray that the Russians don't roll over this time like they did when you did this last time in Serbia. Dear Russia: Please don't break my heart again. Shut this fucker up forever.
One thing the Assad Government is not is religious. Many hundreds of thousands of Chrsitians have lived in Syria for many, may years completely free with their beliefs.
This seems like a pretty unbiased breakdown.
As long as we're exploring the rhetorical, why in the hell would anyone espousing libertarian, republican or liberal principles support a dirtbag like Netanyahu who runs a religious dictatorship? Or Romney who would like to?
smb, ignorance may be a bliss but there's no excuse for stupidity.
Christians make up 11-12% of the Syrian population. There are indications that their numbers have actually risen after Iraqi Christians made it to Syria over the last 10 years.
Also, Assad's daddy committed slaughter in the city of Hama not Homs.
Thank you for this correction. I knew he'd killed 15-20 thousand but since I mistakenly named the wrong city I guess he gets a pass. And thanks for the info that Christians are growing and thriving under Assad (LOL). Glad to know Syria is also an ecumenical state where no one religion has advantages (LOL).
Imbecile this is not a conversation, you are simply openly lying and displaying clever sophistry, however it is transparent. you don't "know" about any killing besides the Palestinians you personally have killed (probably many) and the US sailors you killed in years past.
No one here is laughing with you LOL. You receive nothing but red arrows LOL as a display that all here are simply bored with your sophistry, lies, and cheerleading (actually commanding your slaves-us) us into a war we don't want to conduct, against Christians who share our religion.
But I do acknowledge you are going to win. You always win. I am just complaining.
Once you have exterminated all the Christians in Syria, who is next?
Muslims killing muslims.
doesnt get any better
for a predator its the useful idiot killing the dangerous idiot. Doesn't get any better when you are of vampire breed. Your avatar is perfect.
Cortez you are such an idiot I can't believe you figured out how to turn on a computer.
Syria is going to be Christians killing Christians.
The Christians doing the killing will be the US military and HATO allies, the Christians doing the dying will be the thousands of Syrian Christians who until we kill them shortly had lived in perfect safety protected by Assad.
If you join the military now, there is still time, you will be able to drench your sword with Christian blood.
Allah will reward you in the afterlife.
(technically killing Christians makes Moslems joyful, but the orders are coming from Tel Aviv, that is why SMB is here to keep our chatting within megaphone prescribed guidelines)
I CAN think of a few things better than anybody killing anybody.
Ya, like boobcritic.com. Forget your petty differences and embrace the similarities as humans. Most enjoy wine, women and song... Helping others helps yourself.
Edit: Who is the nutter who down arrowed GH? Really?
My guess is Monedas...
Yes, who needs the 1st Am.
Please excuse the source, as its the first one I found that included two puppets. One from each side.
http://www.beersteak.com/politics/barrack-hussein-obama-bows-to-saudi-ki...
Remember, the enemy of the peoples only affiliation is to each other. ALL of us are pawns easily manipulated into rallying behind an idea/ideology/flag.
Turkey is a peaceful, prosperous place where commerce and tourism thrive.
That's about to radically change.
The PKK have been getting killed pretty regularly for decades, in Turkey. So peaceful. And the women, half the population, are treated like shit. That 's the type of peace they have there.
What do you know about Turkey ? Most probably nothing.
Women rights made lots of progress in Turkey, but it did not reach most of the Kurdish part of the population in Anatolia.This is were the PKK is active and t home.
Istambul or Izmir is quite the opposite of that. These are modern buzzling, in big parts westernized cities. Turkey is Europe, not Africa nor Middle East. Turkey is an associated member of the EU and its expected that they will have full membership in a few years, for the reason, that the EU needs the dynamic economical development in Turkey which is stimulating also growth in the rest of the EU.
Turkey is about as much Europe as Mexico is North America.
Key word you're missing, 'in'.
Turkey (with help from the perfidious Venice) exterminated Byzantium and the Eastern Roman Empire. They damn near did the same to Western Europe. They still have the same playbook, and they have never taken a loss in a home-game
(BTW they play for keeps)
The Heavy response may well indicate that this ill fated over flight was not the first ?
In any event the incedent certainly lets us know that the Bear aint taking no shit today, and I have liitle doubt that even Uncle Scam will take note :)
Perhaps The Bear considers it to be a good place to test some of its newest asymmetrical weapons? Latest technology small, fast, accurate, relatively cheap missiles against the West's capital weapons of the last war. That include aircraft carriers too. There may be a market for these devices.
Long Brent, dollar and gold. Short common sense.
Hillary knows freedom fries go best with oil
Frontrunning monday -
-War
-talian bank bailout
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/23/us-montepaschi-bonds-idUSBRE85...
-Schaeuble tells Greece "Nein" - says "Nein" to eurobonds
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/24/us-eurozone-germany-schaeuble-...
Should be a fun monday.
When it comes to the markets, the only thing more rare than a fun Monday is a fun Friday. This sucker is locked down tight on algopilot.
Someday though.
tempest in a teapot
Exactly. The last thing Turkey wants is a fight with Syria - she's overrun with refugees as it is. It was an accidental border incursion but the ZH crowd must transform it into a nefarious plot. They KNOW it was a drone sent by the US. They KNOW it was unmanned yet both nations spend a day looking for pilots. It's NEVER happened when in actuality skimming a border sea area is common. THey know it was on a mission to get shot down so NATO troops could invade. When nothing happens (as was the case with numerous other predictions) things will settle down.
Right, because NATO (minus the usa) has sooo many extra resources itching for a fight, no budget issues at all, and Syria has all that oil. Oh, wait. The rest of NATO besides the US is a bad joke militarily, badly equipped, and paid for by near bankrupt governments flailing with impossible pension promises, lazy populations that couldn't even bother to make a next generations, and central planning nuttery in the form of the euro. Rar'in for a fight I tell ya. With obmummer leading the charge.
You took the blue pill and you love it. We got it already. Is that steak juicy and delicious?
The $100 GPS receiver in my car can tell if I'm on the north or south side of the street. And a military aircraft doesn't know where it is within 20 miles? Wow!
It is far better to use your brain.
I have used GPS once. Accurate enough to keep an 18 wheeler on the interstate in a snow storm white out. Literally driving to keep that dot between the lines.
Check this out this is a video of the moment the jets were shot down by Syrian people on the beach, you can here the anti aircraft fire and then you can here the people cheering. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=194800367315950
I didnt mean they were shot down by the people on the beach but the video is provided by Syrian civilians on the beach
What exactly does a "hostile signal" look like? Flying in enemy airspace seems like a hostile signal to me. Allowing weapons to filter through Turkey into Syria seems like a hostile signal.
Excepting of course US drones over numerous countries,
Their death from other peoples skies is purely 'peacefull'.
and effective. you see drones have no arms - so it's not an armed conflict. There is no debate with any other government branch and simply proceeds by a secret list is some dark hallway
o
WATCH THIS VIDEO IT WAS SELF DEFENSE!!!!!!!!! https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=194800367315950
Men half naked on a beach hearing gun shoots, yep it must of been self defense.
They were on the beach so it was clearly in Syrian airspace the were anti aircraft guns not missiles it was close. If Iranian jets flew onto the beaches of Miami and we shot them down they would claim that as self defense
Iran over Miami is not quite the same as Turkey over Syria. Turkey and Syria share a long border and the incident was at sea where the borders cross. Discounting the nutty conspiracy theories presented here as the gospel truth, what reason would Turkey have for going after Syria? After all, until the uprising, Assad was a best buddy.
Defense against what?
Oh maybe you missed it they were jet fighters
Meanwhile...
Turkish warplanes bomb PKK hideouts in northern Iraqhttp://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-warplanes-bomb-pkk-hideouts-in-...
Excerpt:
The military said on its website today that warplanes bombed nine shelters and caves - mostly in the Mt. Qandil area, where the main PKKbase is located on the Iraqi-Iranian border. It said the raids began Friday.
Shit! ... Just apply the Castle Doctrine and end this charade.
Brilliant! +100
"Castle Doctrine indeed!"
If Hillary's for it, I'm against it (unless it is involves sex with women).
Is that you Bill? You've been kind of quiet lately. Hey Hillary wants to know where the red button is. NO, not that red button (blushes) the one that controls the missiles. NO, not those missiles. Oh, will you ever grow up. Just forget it....
Well, guess she and Bill do have something in common, sex with women ....
Lets see, we can be really stupid and piss off Russia and China at the same time by siding with Turkey, or we can show a little intellegence and tell Turkey "So sad, Too bad, we are not supporting you on this one." But of course we will side with stupid.
Who is this "we"? Clit Clinton, the Obomber, the Cameroon? Who?
Do an Internet search on "False Flag".
Yeah, cause the whole world knows Russia and China are valiantly fighting hard for peace, individual liberty and human rights. And wasn't Turkey a hero last week for standing up to Israel?
IMO, Egypt looks like the false flag. Now with Muslim Brotherhood in their government. This may be the tipping point.
No-fly zone, bitchez.
It appears to be a no-fly zone for Turkish Drones.
Russia better send in some high-tech stuff, I think the A-team is about to be sent on the ice.
SMB when are you sending in US/HATO aircraft? At least tease us with some inside information, be fucking useful besides your boilerplate Hasbarah dialogue
Remember when that massacre thing happened and it turned out to be bullshit? Oh, people still died and all, but it was the rebels who did it (with CIA-provided weapons). What you are looking at is epic amounts of bullshit going on. This should be interesting.
Oh, you must be talking about Venezuela, or Guatemala, or Mexico, or Columbia, or ........
And the americunts still wonder why everyone hates them.
Dude, please tell "everyone" that we are just following orders.
The US is now a military and economic possession of Israel. We should be reefered to as FYRUSA. Or "Israeli Occupied American Hemisphere Territories"
Did your mother have any kids that lived?
Shut up and get me another eggroll
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw_fHzGqVBg
cant make out the plane though, and the weapons seem small arms
I can't believe anything thrown out these days. What is true - what is not? Israel and the U.S. want a war with Syria SO BAD. Just another step along the path of totalitarianism. Of course, Iran is next. More dead people. Mostly all of them (on both sides) are innocent victims. Ours for "signing the dotted line" and theirs for being a citizen of the wrong country. The people at the top should be the ones "duking it out." Their lust for blood has no bounds. Let's see some of theirs. (How about Nutty-yahoo and Hillary in a cage fight.)
Whatever DID happen over there, Israel and the U.S. were behind it.
Mostly all of them (on both sides) are innocent victims.
Nah, a lot of them have read the Koran, or heard it recited. Going along with that shit marks you as no longer innocent. It is that bad. Just awful inhuman bad nonsense.
wow, you really are fucking retarded.
Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius!
Nice quote.
Just another example of "I'm right - you're wrong."
I believe in Mud Hens....if you do not...you must die.
Beziers, 1209, Arnaud Amaury, legate of Pope Innocent III. Started the Cathar Crusade. So not 'just a phrase', it was truly enacted with 10000-20000 victims massacred in just Beziers, response to purported casus belli, killing of previous papal Legate by the Occitans (all deemed heretics) in 1204.
"Kill em all. Let God choose his own."
Ahh, but the Cathari hedged their bets.
well it ended as zero hedge, 'cos they all ended up dead, the last at Montsegur, like Custer-pied, baked in the bonfire.
Well.....I read the Bible. So in their view, I'm the evil one.
Do you really want to get in a discussion on "The Right Path"? The only way to figure if you chose the right one is to die. There is NO man alive today who can tell me that "his" is the only way to everlasting life. I pretty much tell anyone who forces that shit in my face to fuck off. You're close.
Stephen Roberts:
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”"Whatever DID happen over there, Israel and the U.S. were behind it."
I'm sure you meant: "Whatever DID happen over there, the owners of Israel and the U.S. namely the global banking mafia were behind it just as they were behind, and funded both sides of, every war since and including Napoleon."
Alberta DOES rock. I was fortunate enough to live there for a few years. "The Canadian Rockies" - absolutely stunning.
Yes sir. If you're interested in my take on it, a few months back I wrote an article on my blog and at the bottom of it, just on a whim, I included some links to a few pictures that basically represented "memories from my youth". It turns out they were quite popular so I've got a hunch you'd really enjoy them. So without wanting to be accused of pimping my own blog, I offer this link to you only, lol. Just scroll down to the end of the article and above the comments:
http://albertarocks-ta-discussions.blogspot.ca/2012/04/i-dreamed-about-b...
Ironically, an American lady who some of us have gotten to know and love as DivineLove who lives in Carmel, Cali. just finished a motorcycle journey a week ago that included the Icefields Parkway (Banff to Jasper). She was so impressed with the sheer beauty of Alberta that she could hardly put it into words. Just as a matter of passing interest, I take it you're not a native Albertan? An American? By the way, you seem like a nice person so I don't really think you're Dick Cheney, lol. And let's make no mistake here, there's a reason they call him "Dick". His real first name is Harvey.
Nice pics, along with the vid. Texan by birth. Trying to get my happy-ass out of this oven to northern Idaho. Will I ever? Doubt it.
My avatar could be one of thousands. Henry Kissinger was first (biggest asshole in the world). Tricky Dick, Bush (Sr. Jr.), Hillary, Bill, etc............................................................... So many assholes. So many bullets.
I like the way you think my friend. All those you named are on my list as well. If you ever make it up to Idaho let me know. You can come up and visit. I have a good friend who goes by the name of TrueRangeBallistic. You might run into him on other sites like Pretzel's. He's from Idaho and a #1 good guy. Stay safe and hope I'll run into you again.
Pretzel's forum: http://www.deepwaveanalytics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=2
So evident to anyone who has looked into these things in depth, but my oh my, how we like our simple little labels.
Empires in decline tend to lose their ability to pick fights wisely. other than that, they are stunted by the amount of camp followers they gathered in the "good times", and absolutely no one will cut back from their spot at the through.
Hello WW3.
The only sane way to find out the truth is to put Hilary Clinton in a jet and fly it over Syrian Airspace.
So by some convenient and timely miracle "the Turkish search-and-rescue teams were able to find wreckage of the fighter jet in the Mediterranean Sea damned near a mile down, even though it was blown to smithereens, no piece bigger than an engine, within 36 hours of the shoot-down." I suppose it isn't all that ironic that the rescue-team just happened to be right there 'johnny on the spot' where the remains were to be found, because god only knows that Turkish search-and-rescue squadron are world renown as being the world's fastest and keenest at finding lost remains deep in an ocean. No doubt they already have the black box in their possession and have completely analyzed its data including the cockpit voice recorder that clearly reveals the pilot as saying "We're just out on a friendly sight-seeing tour somewhere near Syrian air space and we're waving a friendly hello to our Syrian friends below. "Hello our Syrian friends. That's a beautiful camel you have there. What the fuck? They just shot a missile at us for no reason."
Meanwhile, it only took 73 fucking years to find the Titanic. So there you go Hilary you war mongering bitch. You've got the plastic ball... now you run with it girl.
Is the Gulf of Tonkin in Syrian waters?
Please stay tuned for 're-education' regarding the Vietnam War:
“We can lose longer than you can win” ~ Ho Chi Minh
Help me out here. How can you shoot down a jet fighter with small arms fire unless it lets you?
syria has had it with one or more NAT0 signatories arming and supplying its people for revolution and bringing in mercenaries who are under outside-the-nation command
L0L >--> just like last year in libya; the moQ was a friend of russia, syria and also italy when it was still on the bunga-cord; after he lost his comsats outa libya, Qadaffy broadcast his messages to 'stand up to NAT0 and come to your senses' via damascusTV
russia and china abstained in the vote to "allow NAT0 to implement a no-fly zone to protect innocent civilians from Qadaffy"; they held their noses over libya as the french (& US) flip-flops went in and got the brotherhood up to speed and the NAT0 rocket jockeys dropped pinpoint munitions on the enemies of the revolution, almost all of whom happened to be civilians and many of whom were children who were dusted off while going night-night in the room next to daddy's
one of the first collateral 'mistakes' of the near-countless bonbing missions to protect civilians was painting the walls of the retreat with the blood of the sleeping clerics who had gathered to discuss wtf was happening here when they were mistakenly targeted and surgically splattered even as the apology was being written one must suppose
this is "law" in the NW0 as preached by those who use the councils of international buggery the make families and clergypersons who have voices not under their propaganda filters into paint while they are sleeping
NAT0 will not get to protect civilans in their fave no-fly ways in syria; russia and china will not hold their noses and look the orher way here and we've known this for at least a year
no oil; no water; just turf and a russian 'base' near the surf, and the asad goobermint
now this article stresses bilary and NAT0 but imo we need to focus on Turkey, here
the 'message' is to the turks and it is from the rooskies and it sez: NAT0? if NAT0 doesn't hit the fuking brakes in syria, turkey is syria! we can fuk with NAT0 'buffers' too! you mofos either back down and let us get to the peace table, dialogues, and elections in syria, or you are gonna be repainting your children's bedrooms. now run along and see what bilary thinks about that, ok? and change yer pants!
From the cabal's POV, you would much rather have Turkey bully Syria rather than Greece, Cyprus or Israel...which they will end up doing anyway.
hey, magpi_! NAT0 (france) is trying to take down the asad or assad regime, not turkey
NAT0 wants a regime change; turkey doesn't give a fuk, they have their own problems, one might assume
syria, russia, china and the UN have set up a peace table w/ kofiAnan; this process is designed to have the parties talk and try to design an election in syria; so the syrian voters can choose the goobermint. again
NAT0 want to do it militarily, b/c as/s/ad is a criminal and they are the good cops, doncha just know...
this is about the goobermint of syria, which, we may recall, had a pretty loose border with iraq way back in '03... the stateDept has a fair memory, perhaps... ?
and syria and russia (imo) are telling NAT0 if they don't start heading to kofi's table for THIS process, they are gonna escalate and THEY are gonna escalate into turkey
syria is gonna fuk with the turkish goobermint and see how the fuk they like counting the fuking bodies over on the NAT0 side for a while, hello? anybody home?
syria is not kidding; they have nothing to loose and russia and bilary are on their third sambuca already...
i think NAT0 hasta back down a bit and get to the peace table, but you know how stubborn those military shitheads are about their strangelove territorials and tutorials; i think it is the rooskies' turn to get stubborn and maybe BK the EU/NAT0 over syria-turkey b/c it can't pay for libya yet [if anyone dares notice, that emperor hasn't been ad-dressed yet]
in slewienomic terms: for a small increment of additional cost, syria/russia can give the EU a big migraine which may be quite expensively debilitating, overall...
i don't think angela will mind waiting till she sees what these same shitheads she is trying to come to terms with try to get her to do next so they can play moGames in syria's pectoral-electoral processes
again, turkey needs to clean their drawers here; they may sense a random culling coming their way if bilary decides [with 3 fuking carriers off iran] bring it BicheZ, panetta wants a new theatre to escalate into, himself...
poor turkey! it's the wrong time of year for the prez0 to issue a reprieve...
we can sing along together with another chorus of the ~~~<bosphorous-phosphorous Blues>~~~
NAT0 (france) is trying to take down the asad or assad regime, not turkey
Thats how it was when Sarkozy, the CIA agent was French President. It was Sarko who declared war on Libia and Syria but not France. The French completely disagreed with Sarkos neo colonial war policy.
But this is a thing of the past. Sarkozys and his party construct was washed away by the French voters in May and June 2012.
Now France is against the war in Syria and Im sure they are going to remove their assistance. Its now only a UK/US war in Syria. In my opinion neither the French, nor Germans, nor Italians, nor Spaniards will be actively fighting in Syria.
i totally agree that (a large?) part of the vote against sarko was b/c he wuz psycho on the foreign policy; why tf would a normal french-person buy into that kinda insane fuking aggression?
all during the campaigns, election, and aftermath, i have waited for someone to bring this up on zH
so, thanks! L0L!!!
all humor aside, i don't think the flip-flops around arming &supplying the "rebels" in syria have gone non-french since the election and a new mouth from which the nappyEmperor taunteth chancellorM in new ways...??? Hahaha!
none of these debtors-in-possession fought in libya, either actively; they use proxy-mercenary on the ground and hotel-billeted rocket jockeys handle the precision awacs battle-field control is my point
thanks for the laughs...
if NAT0 doesn't stop, turkey is gonna pay, not france or spain
how long have you had this problem?
As much as i like the big picture and grand conspiracy theories..i see this going like their strikes in Iraq or even closer, their Cypriot invasion.
not to disagree, i just see the first step = "they" arming, supplying and encouraging dissidents not to cease-fire. ever. not to get to the table to see about working this out under int'l auspices without violence, if possible, for a change
they are working this out, or they aren't? TBD?
turkey is gonna do the fighting if they don't back down and get to the peace table; assad and rooosha have no choice strategically but to splash turkey if NAT0 doesn't behave, here
NAT0 has to cease operations inside syria long enuf to get cover to leave, basically, after winning some political protections for their clientele...
assad? ok, slewie...
there!
or not...
magpi_: if by "conspiracy theory" you mean french/us/nato flipflops arming mBro in egypt, libya. and sryia, perhaps you have your category confused with facts
i am not proposing any theory beyond theorizing that turkey has a big fuking bull's eye here
everything eles is factual; the peace table, the russian, chinese, ands syrian positions around it, the arms and whence they are flowing, and the dead people and the UN "inquiries"; what happened in libya and why: the UN passed the resolution with china and russia abstaining
there is no conspiracy; this is simply the most efficient way to present these facts of recent history; i present neither NAT0 nor the EU nor the US nor the UN as conspiracies
NAT0 and the mBro took out the moQ under legal cover of UN resolution (law); i am simply trying to tell people what they are seeing without the spin; here they are seeing NAT0 being threatened w/ retaliation against turkey imo, b/c NAT0 doesn't have the legal right to assad's airspace. yet
get it?
and your agenda?
My agenda ? I only like being at the edge of things as a conspiracy theorist/ cyber bully/ privateer. If it means prying a bit..but i know when to keep my beak shut. There might be some who believe i might be on some errand of personal revenge...though its obvious that i slide into complete indifference quite easily. That being said, there are plenty of troubles closer to home for me.
that my point
hurried NAT0 summit = nice goldilocksCrisisTM touch for angela to get her arm dislocated over financing the EU, eh?
must.protect.turkey...?
Tuesday ?
Enough fake and real bank runs to cover up by waging war for distraction ?
The truly depressing part of this story is its utter predictability. Still more evidence that the "species flaw" that leads to human extinction will be our inability to learn from the past. Militarism has never worked. It's always the first thing we try. Here we are.
We DO have the ability to learn from the past. IF you are taught the truth of the past.
But Orwell's memory hole is in fact real.
Your statement can only be accurate if one subscribes to truth.
Amish turn their backs on humanity and wag their fingers .... while benefiting from the protection of the US military ? If you withdraw from the world .... it's hypocritical to gloat of your isolation while receiving the protection of others ! Monedas 1929 Comedy Jihad Stuff A Glove In It
Your getting junked for being retarded. Who are YOU to say who owes what - ya EFFING hippocrit!!! Mind yourself!
Pay no attention. He got jilted by an Amish girl in his teen years and never got over it.
Okay, I get it....you are from the FDA, and have just gotten on the wrong website. After all, only FDA-stasis attack the Amish!
Your posts are really NOT funny, clever, or meritorious. I hope you know that.
If you are reading this (and I know you read ZeroHedge) Hillary,run...!!!
Theres gun fire all around you,quick jump in the chopper.
You piece of mouldy shit bitch.
Turkey is still flying F-4 Phantoms? Amazing they could keep a 50 year old plane in the air.
From http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avf4_3.html#m3
In 1995, the Turkish government signed an agreement with IAI of Israel to update about 54 of Turkey's F-4Es. The update program included structural strengthening and an avionics improvement package similar to the Israeli Phantom 2000 configuration, but with some changes as per Turkish requirements, leading to the designation of "Phantom 2020". As with Israeli Phantom 2000s, Turkish Phantom 2020s have the ability to carry the big Popeye ASM, as that weapon is being acquired by the Turks.
There were some political delays in implementing the update program, but the first Phantom 2020 flew in 1999. In that same year, the THK issued a requirement for updating their RF-4Es as well. The THK hopes to keep their Phantoms in service until at least 2015.
They didn't.
It "strayed" into Syrian airspace, did it? All those tens of millions for a plane and it doesen't include a $100 GPS. Who's the supplier?
All life .... vegetable and animal .... is always engaged in territorial competition .... that's just what's for dinner .... get over it ! Monedas 1929 Comedy Jihad War Is The Stuff Of Life
Peace is when the good guys .... the more democratic, the more free market .... have enough power to deter serious agression ! Every minor heathen squabble is not cost efficient to be suppressed ! Monedas 1929 Comedy Jihad There Are No Innocent Syrians
Maybe they thought the jet had a banker in it.
I wish someone (usa) would fly some of those ChemtrailTanker Jets into
Syrian airspace....
Low and fast....
As of now, it's been said that shooting took place on international waters. We get several aerial intrusions (in Turkey) every year but I don't remember any shooting attempts on Greek or Israeli or whichever jets.
Now I wonder how come it is not hostile. Sometimes truth could be as plain as it just is.
A year or so back, Turkey stated that it would fire on Unauthorised incursions of its airspace, at the time this was aimed squarely at Israel, but clearly they dont have much room for complaint on this one, as it only mirrors their own stated policy on aerial incursions :)
I have a great deal of time for Erdogan, and Turkey, but on this Syria issue I'm finding it hard to see the Turkish logic ? I have a suspicion that the Turkish position is being influenced by events 90 years ago in the Arab Revolt, and maybe the idea of regaining territory that has been traditionally Turkish, and which the Founder was unable to retain ?
A great diversion from the Euro fiscal crisis. World leaders deserve an award for trying.
Globalist can now fixate their media army on this diversion from the fiscal/unemployment crisis.
Does this mean Trickle Down is finally going to reach me?
Alot of the late F4s for the US were electronic countermeasures aircraft... Also known as Wild Weasels. I believe we flew them in the first Gulf war. If this was ECM, find the missile radar, it makes alot more sense.
In brief, the task of a Wild Weasel aircraft is to bait enemy anti-aircraft defenses into targeting it with their radars, whereupon the radar waves are traced back to their source allowing the Weasel or its teammates to precisely target it for destruction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Weasel
As of this morning it has been determined that the Turkish plane was in international airspace, the Syrians cannot justify the killing of that jet and it's crew. Time for Assad to go no matter the consequences. If the Russians and Chinese do not like it they can kiss my hairy man parts.
First, have Obama step down for killing innocent children with his drone attacks.
Then have Bush & Obama fairly tried for their war crimes.
After that, we can take up the discussion of the hubris of making demands that leaders of OTHER nations "depart".
"As of this morning it has been determined that the Turkish plane was in international airspace"
According to who?
Are you aware that legislation passed in Congress just lately gives the military the legal right to use propaganda (even misleading stories) in the American press?
NATO to meet Tuesday after Syria downed Turkish jet in international airspace... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/nato-to-meet-tuesday-after-syria-downed-turkish-jet-in-international-airspace/article4366551/
Syria downed Turkish jet in international airspace... http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-24/syria-downed-turkish-jet-in-international-arispace/4089442
Turkish jet 'downed by Syria in international airspace'... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18568412
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CGcQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guardian.co.uk%2Fworld%2F2012%2Fjun%2F24%2Fturkey-plane-shot-down-syria%3Fnewsfeed%3Dtrue&ei=JMHnT4SsLuTW2gXe383ZCQ&usg=AFQjCNHavkzuPqSlv6HlN-lpME8WbDFcJw&sig2=VjFVlGcEPXtqFWd3nDW4NA
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CG0QFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.globalpost.com%2Fdispatch%2Fnews%2Fregions%2Fmiddle-east%2Fsyria%2F120624%2Fsyria-turkey-air-force-phantom-spy-plane-istanbul-international-airspace&ei=JMHnT4SsLuTW2gXe383ZCQ&usg=AFQjCNHMSmKmg4_hHx2XjPpuDhzhKnziqw&sig2=yBErJOdVxrd2lP-8CFK7pA
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=11&ved=0CG8QFjAK&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-2163910%2FGlobal-uproar-reveal-Turkish-jet-blasted-Syrians-shot-international-airspace.html&ei=JMHnT4SsLuTW2gXe383ZCQ&usg=AFQjCNHiRWE4nXZcloxlcEXcV8YKtXj3pw&sig2=tn8aoRLtWQN-gkgHVQHy8A
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=11&ved=0CG8QFjAK&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-2163910%2FGlobal-uproar-reveal-Turkish-jet-blasted-Syrians-shot-international-airspace.html&ei=JMHnT4SsLuTW2gXe383ZCQ&usg=AFQjCNHiRWE4nXZcloxlcEXcV8YKtXj3pw&sig2=tn8aoRLtWQN-gkgHVQHy8A
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=20&ved=0CF8QFjAJOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arabianbusiness.com%2Fturkey-says-jet-shot-down-in-international-airspace-463206.html&ei=L8LnT7n9O-KC2wXpu5naCQ&usg=AFQjCNGCcHae_wt1DFKLNJxZgYGCY4KqgQ&sig2=JVEKqe7B1zzXq2heJfC6pA
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=25&ved=0CFEQFjAEOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fm.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld-middle-east-18568412&ei=XMLnT4D-LYbL2QXY54jcCQ&usg=AFQjCNE9Myf5c34mK6CaA-0iqVf-ihdDPw&sig2=yHWfd6V8Zd3aUhUgCIqE9w
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
MOST of the net and MOST of reputable reporting is saying the jet was in international airspace, and frankly it just does not matter anyway because Syria had no business shooting at other nation's planes unless they were on a bombing run over Damascus because THIS was going to be the result. Assad is an ugly dictator and he has the murder of thousands of innocent civilians on his hands to answer for, and you pussies with the red arrows can stay comfortably at home while he is surgically taken out one way or the other, but he will go no matter what!
Actually, this public decision is only the tip of the iceberg. According to our information several international meetings were organized during the past week to coordinate the disinformation campaign. The first two were technical meetings, held in Doha (Qatar); the third was a political meeting and took place in Riyad (Saudi Arabia).
The first meeting assembled PSYOP officers, embedded in the satellite TV channels of Al-Arabiya, Al-Jazeera, BBC, CNN, Fox, France 24, Future TV and MTV. It is known that since 1998, the officers of the US Army Psychological Operations Unit (PSYOP) have been incorporated in CNN. Since then this practice has been extended by NATO to other strategic media as well.
They fabricated false information in advance, on the basis of a “story-telling” script devised by Ben Rhodes’s team at the White House. A procedure of reciprocal validation was installed, with EACH MEDIA quoting the lies of the other media to render them plausible for TV spectators. The participants also decided not only to requisition the TV channels of the CIA for Syria and Lebanon (Barada, Future TV, MTV, Orient News, Syria Chaab, Syria Alghad) but also about 40 religious Wahhabi TV channels to call for confessional massacres to the cry of “Christians to Beyrouth, Alawites into the grave!.”
. . .
Read the FULL at Land Destroyer:
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/06/urgent-expose-nato-dirty-trick...
+1. Awesome info. What I wonder is why did Syria shoot it down at all? Assad knows NATO is on his ass and destroying his country in pursuit of a casus belli. And remember:
A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still -Ogden Nash
Very important question, and I am really happy that there are people out there wanting to talk about what is really going on here, most posters at ZH seem to be NAZI anti everything with no thinking involved.
Assad inherited Syria. His father inherited Syria. Assad lived in America for many years, ivy league education, and if you ask me gay as a box of birds. I don't have great gaydar but he sets off all my bells and whistles in that matter.
Syria has nothing, it is pure desert, no oil, no ports to speak of, it's only claim to fame is that it occupies Lebanon, it has strategic value because of that and nothing more. It is supported by Iran, but is opposed by all of it's neighbors, Iraq/USA, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and of course Turkey. Even Jordan has nothing to do with the Assad dictatorship. In short the only ally is Iran and to a lesser degree Russia.
The Arab world has gotten to the point that they accept Israel and the Jews as they are, they do not like it but they accept that nothing they can do will change the fact that Jews are home for good. Along comes Iran which is Islamic but not Arab, they have fueled all of the middle east conflict since the shah fell. They have armed Hezbollah, they support Syria in it's occupation of Lebanon, they paid for weapons far beyond what tribal Lebanese could afford, and they keep Gaza a mess with weapons and money.
Syria in all this is nothing, Assad is following orders from Teheran. He is a gofer, nothing more.
All middle eastern conflict is centered on Iran. It always was and always will be. The whole middle east has NOTHING to offer the world but oil, maybe you like a certain goat steak recipe? Maybe you like really expensive rugs?
Iran is the shit disturbing nation of all shit disturbing nations. China is a close second, North Korea would like to be but they are such a joke nobody takes then seriously. Putin is pissed off he is not first in this but then Russia as a whole does not hate America as much as Putin wants them to. Oil is going to flow, Iran can't do Jack Shit about it. Nuclear weapons are bad, if they have to exist let them only exist in the hands of serious adults who will never use them. They should be limited to those that already have them, as called for in the NNPT. That means anyone seeking nuclear weapons makes itself a legitimate target just by enriching uranium.
We need to get rid of all nuclear weapons, but how can the holders of nuclear weapons justify dismantling their arsenals when shit stinking holes like Iran insist upon building them to destroy civilians?
Right, Syria is not a resource-rich country, but Iran is!
Syria is one of the key bets for the Anglo-Saxon forces to conquer Iran! Following up the fall of Libya, Iran is one of the very few countries left that is not in the orbit of the central banksters, and it's the richest one in natural resources among the handful left.
"As we have consistently analysed on Global Research, the conflict between the US-led powers and Iran has wider ramifications. It is part and parcel of Washington’s bid to engineer the social and political upheavals across the Arab World in order to redraw the region in its strategic interests. It is no coincidence that fresh from NATO’s conquest of and regime change in Libya, the focus has quickly shifted to Syria – a key regional ally of Iran. As Michel Chossudovsky has pointed out “the road to Tehran goes through to Damascus”. Regime change in Syria would serve to isolate Iran. Subjugating Iran and returning it to Western tutelage is the prize that Washington and its allies have been seeking for the past 33 years ever since their client the Shah, Mohammad Rez? Pahlavi, was deposed by the Islamic Revolution in 1979."
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=28675
Plans were signed to extend the Arab Gas Pipeline (Mashreq Gas Project) from Syria into Turkey (consequently to Europe).
Quite a lot of action has taken place along these pipelines in the past few years.
It's very hard to anticipate what will transpire at the NATO meeting on Tuesday, but a deeper understanding of the "politics" behind the pipeline extension project may very well provide a clearer indication whether war will break out or not.
Come what may, the poisonous mix of recession and war drums beating does not bode well.
What a shame.
At this rate they could cancel the Olympics in London already.
Yes please
Not exactly a group of inpartial Jane's analysts on this site! Turkey claims providence over part of Cyprus which is only about 100 miles from Syria and therefore Turkey's territorial water claims go well south. There are major disputes over this region over subsea gas fields, and I am fairly certain Turkey has sent recon flights down this corridor in the past.
Either this plane was flying a recon mission with long-range side mounted cameras trying to pick up activity, maybe even russian at tartus but would seem to be pushing the limits, or it was flying a wild weasel mission to probe air defenses, also seems highly unlikely. We operated this same plane in this same missions up to the mid 90's so it is not that unlikely that the Turks have these capabilities.
Maybe an accident, in that no one in a political position was given a chance to authorize or stop the launch, but the reality is the plane was probably trying to see something the Syrians didn't want seen clearly.
In the end, whether the Russians like it or not, a sectarian group with 10% of a population will have trouble keeping a fascist system in place in an iphone-twitter-facebook world. The real story is that the US is willing to support majorities even when they may not be our traditional preference. Seems a powerful weapon for our side - hope it works out as a win-win in the decades to come in places such as Egypt, etc.
Turkey is one of the countries that can give Syria a run for their money in the cruelty and injustice department ! Playing "Millenium Catch Up" with the West isn't always pretty ! Monedas 1929 Comedy Jihad Turn Over Their Sodden Butts With Our Internet Plowshares .... If They Get Cheeky .... Death By Droning
"Seems a powerful weapon for our side"
Who exactly is "our" side? The warmongering banker pets in DC?
You seem to think that these "revolutions" are all grassroots and organic. That is extremely naive. Every so-called "revolution" from Myanmar to Syria has been coordinated, orchestrated, funded, and fomented by Western groups such as the NED, with a little help from their mechanics, the CIA, MI6, and MOSSAD, not to mention all of the globalist think tanks in existence. Regime change does NOT happen without the Hidden Hand guiding its every step.
I suggest reading F. William Engdahl if you are not familiar with these concepts.
Land Destroyer: A New Front: Myanmar’s Role in the Geopolitics of Empire
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/06/new-front-myanmars-role-in-geo...
great find...thanks for that. I read book recently (title...? duh) how Burma, being sanwiched betweeen Inda & China, is competed over by the two [hint: big edge to China] and my takeaway was basically China simply colonizing the shit out of [Mynamar]... counting on latter being their bridge to Indian Ocean. I can't say one way or other what's "right"; ain't no diff from Europeans & New World, but also not surprised the West kicks back
Landdestroyer....that is either Cartalucci or Chossudovsky. I get them mixed up sometimes. Both very good writers, though. Thanks for the link!