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The "Net Worthless" Recovery Hits Peak Marxism

Tyler Durden's picture


Back in June 2011, Zero Hedge first pointed out something very troubling: the labor share of national income had dropped to an all time low, just shy of 58%. This is quite an important number as none other than the Fed noted few years previously that "The allocation of national income between workers and the owners of capital is considered one of the more remarkably stable relationships in the  U.S. economy. As a general rule of thumb, economists often cite labor’s share of income to be about two-thirds of national income—although the exact figure is sensitive to the specific data used to calculate the ratio. Over time, this ratio has shown no clear tendency to rise or fall." Yet like pretty much every other relationship in the new normal, this rule of thumb got yanked out of the socket, and the 66% rapidly became 58%. This troubling shift away from the mean prompted David Rosenberg to say that "extremes like this, unfortunately, never seem to lead us to a very stable place." Which is why we are happy to note that as of last quarter, the labor share of income has finally seen an uptick, and while certainly not back at its old normal, has finally started to tick up, which leads us to ask: have we passed the moment of peak Marxism of this particular period in US history?

And while we wish we could say the answer is yes, which would be predicated by more income, and thus, wealth finally shifting back in favor of laborers instead of owners of capital, or those who solely benefit from Fed policy over the past 4 years, the answer is that on an absolute basis there has been no improvement in terms of actual disposable income. The following chart from Bank of America showing the Net Worthless-ness of us consumers says it all.

And from BofA:

The recovery in the stock market has been partly offset by the continuing drop in home prices. In the standard life cycle model of the consumer, households attempt to build their net worth to cover there future spending needs, particularly for retirement. During the asset price boom, the ratio of net worth to income surged, setting up the baby boom generation for its looming retirement. The crisis pushed the clock back to the mid 1990s. The recovery in net worth in the last three years has barely outstripped income growth, leaving the ratio deeply depressed.

In other words, while those of a relativistic bent may assume that in order to preserve the game theory equilibrium so stretched out of place by recent policies  benefiting solely the capital gatherers more wealth is finally being ceded to laborers, the truth is that on an absolute basis the Fed's policies to benefit just one class of people is starting to fade. In other words: 99%ers rejoice - your lot in life is not any better, but at least the 1%ers are starting to sweat a little more. If even purely metaphorically.


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Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:38 | 2334831 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Hey.... we turned the corner!!

Party like it's 1981!

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:45 | 2334850 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

adjust it for inflation and party like its fuking over, BiCheZ!

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:51 | 2334863 V in PA
V in PA's picture

Man! Just look at that dead cat bounce. It almost looks like he's gonna make it.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:06 | 2334923 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

The 1% might be realizing that they will have to keep some people employed to have their darling (dead) society function.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:29 | 2335012 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

Ahem.  "it looks like someone just shot its dog" would be a better turn of phrase, don't you think? Or how about "that bitch is just reloading, ready to poop all over the carpet again while you're out disposing of the previous turds"? 

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:42 | 2334840 Silver Bully
Silver Bully's picture

more like 1995, according to the chart.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:45 | 2334851 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

In response to the Peak Marxism quip....I was obliquely refering to 1981 when St. Ronnie took up the call and defended us from Marxism....

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:42 | 2334841 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Free economy was more fun

Obamaconomy is more fun

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:48 | 2334864 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

With that logic playing Russian Roulette is fun.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 00:38 | 2336884 lenitivelea
lenitivelea's picture

It is if you loaded the gun. 

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:49 | 2334865 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture


tyler might consider a "name this economy" contest

a word or short phrase to describe conditions in yer hood or elzewhere

maybe after we're all loaded from "fair share's" someday...

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:07 | 2334927 WhyDoesItHurtWh...
WhyDoesItHurtWhen iPee's picture



green shoots are now "dandelion lawns" economy.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:59 | 2335722 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Instead of gas for my mower, I'm buying fencing today and letting the goats have at it.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:47 | 2334856 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture
You can live well if you're rich and you can live well if you're poor, but if you're poor, it's much cheaper. -Andrew Tobias
Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:54 | 2334859 MunX
MunX's picture

I get a much different story from that chart. That chart shows me the "trickles". Basically it proves to me that huge stimuli in a Keynesian model doesn't "trickle down" like they should. It also proves to me why this system fails just like pure communism fails. It's not the system, it's the people living in the system.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:59 | 2334904 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Luckily you don't have to worry about that MunX seeing that you reside in a fascist state not a Marxist one.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:04 | 2334919 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

No its that trickle-down economics is a complete failure.

The upper 20% win. 

Bottom 80% is basically living a soft landing for their living standards.

Funny that the Yank narrative of you to can be steve jobs is what policy is based on, so that the 20% can continue to win.

Crony capitalism = trickle-down economics. That should be the narrative.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:11 | 2334943 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Trickle-up poverty.

2009's millionaire and employer is todays unemployment and food stamp check recipient.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:14 | 2334961 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Beyond a failure.... it was legalized looting in the name of "Greed is Good"...

My fuck, there are still shills from the Cato Institute saying that cutting taxes for the "job creators" is the way to go...How much more data do they need to that lie to rest??

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:47 | 2335077 TMT
TMT's picture

So raising taxes on the job creators is the way to go?  Sure it would make the OWS losers happy, but it wouldn't do shit for the economy.

Try again.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:55 | 2335110 MunX
MunX's picture

Sorry TMT but what we are talking about has nothing to do with taxes.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:23 | 2335241 TMT
TMT's picture

I was responding to Flak who was discussing taxes.  I think you are confused.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:28 | 2335279 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

And I think you are misguided.....

Do you really think that lowering tax rates created jobs?

When has it been demonstrated to work?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:34 | 2335324 TMT
TMT's picture

Lower marginal tax rates alone doesn't create jobs.  Lower tax rates coupled with smaller government and less regulation creates jobs.  Coupled with doing away with the Fed and smartly regulating the banking industry would result in real economic growth.

Who do you think creates jobs?  Welfare receipients?  Bums?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:45 | 2335389 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Sounds nice.... Can you provide evidence that regulations have hurt job creation?I mean real evidence, not hand waving ideology or anectodal evidence.

So why is it that Germany with essentially no natural resources, high taxes, powerful labor unions is a manufacturing powerhouse that has run current account surpluses for years, has a modest budget deficit? Moreover, why do studies now show that Germany has *higher* upward mobility than the US?

One last question, given the strong correlation between oil use and economic growth, do you think that *growth* relies on more than what you listed?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:05 | 2335475 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

Come on give tmt a break he knows how to fix it. He saw it on FOX news.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:17 | 2335522 TMT
TMT's picture

Who ever mentioned Fox news?  Let me guess - you're still in your PJs, popping pimples in your mommy's basement waiting for the next OWS rally?

I don't claim to have all the answers but surely the failed parasites at OWS are clueless.

I'm simply a RP fan who believes in limited government.

Try harder next time.  Call me Dick Cheney or something else intelligent.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:12 | 2335501 TMT
TMT's picture

Have you ever run a small business?  If yes, you wouldn't ask such a dumb question.  Who the hell do you think pays for all the bullshit regulations?  Or are you a Krugman broken-windown theorist?  Sure, the regulations cost businesses money but they also "create jobs" ... bullshit.  Wise up.

As for Germany, come back in about a year once the EU experiment totally unwinds and tell me they're a powerhouse.

Yes, growth relies on energy as well.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:46 | 2335660 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

As I suspected, nothing of substance...

Umm... I never implied that bad regs were not a pain in ass, but a job killer... C'mon you will have to do better than that... 

Hey, if you had mentioned the screwed up Health Insurance system you might have gotten a bit of traction...

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:57 | 2335710 TMT
TMT's picture

Substance is working in the real world and running a business.  From your reply, I safely assume you've never done so.  My company recently had to obtain a dust permit in order to clear some land of weeds (about a day of work).  The dust permit cost $13,000.  What did we get for it?  Nothing.  It was merely a tax or a fee.

At the same time we need to hire an analyst.  Do you think after paying for 5 dust permits this year we could have filled that position?

That's the real world Flak.  Get out of your tent and enter the fucking real world and you'll see with your own eyes how government regulation kills businesses.

Health care ... it's fucked up.  Let me guess, you want single payer.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 16:02 | 2335737 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

All you have to offer is hearsay...

Wow, sounds like business is good $65,000 in fees and it is only April....


Wed, 04/11/2012 - 16:36 | 2335848 TMT
TMT's picture

Try to keep up.  I said 5 permits this year.

Call it hearsay.  Why don't you tell me from your own experience how wonderful regulation is and how it creates jobs.

You're a troll.  Go back to your tent.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 18:49 | 2336233 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Where did I say that it created jobs? Really, quit with the bullshit.

Now as far as I can tell, the EPA has put a lot of Respitory Therapists out of work.  You may be on to something...


Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:36 | 2335340 TMT
TMT's picture

BTW I'm a flat tax guy with no deductions.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:09 | 2335177 donsluck
donsluck's picture

Which jobs are they creating?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:27 | 2335265 TMT
TMT's picture

Two examples.  I have a good friend who is a GC who just hired four people last month.  Decent wages with benefits.  One of my associates owns a landscaping company who hired two people last week.  Both make a lot of money and are most likely part of the 1%.  Does that make them evil?

Who the fuck do you think creates jobs in this country?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:33 | 2335314 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You really only want to believe what you want to believe...

The 1% is a red herring,.... 

Try focusing on the 0.1% for a start.... You know the kleptocrats that export the jobs and the Hedgies that add no value....

PS He must have a helluva Landscaping company if his *net* profits at ~1/4 million bucks...Good for him...

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:41 | 2335366 TMT
TMT's picture

Not too hard to pull in $250k when you're doing commercial install jobs that run over $600k.

I think that's part of the problem - the OWS crowd thinks someone who makes $250k is flying around on private jets and going to Paris for lunch.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:47 | 2335394 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

A function of the soundbite universe we live in... 1% is easy to say, 0.1% is not...

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:24 | 2335557 TMT
TMT's picture

Or it's a function of you hating those who have more than you.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:10 | 2335489 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

You don't have a clue what the OWS crowd thinks.  You'd have to talk to them if you wanted to learn something about that.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:22 | 2335548 TMT
TMT's picture

Blow me.  I have zero desire to talk to a bunch of incoherint parasites who can't formulate a sentence.  I've watched countless interviews with these folk and read their web postings.  Their "end the fed" talk is right on.  But by and large they're a collection of useless idiots who want handouts.

Sorry to offend you but I call them like I see them.  Hitch your wagon to a more credible group.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:34 | 2335601 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I sense a lot of misdirected anger.... you might want to try some therapy lest that anger turn into cancer....

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:48 | 2335670 TMT
TMT's picture

My anger is directed with precision.  I despise those who want to take the fruits of my labor - like many of the OWS gimme gimme fuckers who won't get off their ass and work for an honest days pay.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:38 | 2335623 Free2Speak
Free2Speak's picture

I have gone down and talked to them and TMT is right.  Many of them (not all) are Marxists. And they don't understand who the 1% are.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:52 | 2335688 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

   I have gone down and talked to them and TMT is right.  Many of them (not all) are Marxists.

How can he be right?  That's not what he said. 

Do you want us all to pretend that "Marxist" means "hates people who are successful"?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:18 | 2334964 MunX
MunX's picture

I couldn't agree more. However, for me it's not as important knowing that "trickle down" economics is a complete failure, but why it is a failure. I believe the answer is an imbalance in the nature of humanity, which manifests itself during every paradigm shift. Unfortunentally, during these shifts, humanity usually tries to change the system instead of changing himself/herself. At this point what system is left to try?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:23 | 2334991 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

We had ideologues like Milton Freidman telling us that excessive greed was acceptable and markets self-regulated... Enough people took advantage of the situation that we completely lost our values and moral compass....

The final nail in the coffin was the use of financialization to induce an unsustainable consumer binge that effectively bought off the lower classes long enough so that if/when they woke up to the pillaging, it would not matter...

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:36 | 2335032 MunX
MunX's picture

The only question is where will humanity go from here?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:41 | 2335050 ffart
ffart's picture

Eating from a garbage can and living under a bridge, most likely

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 18:37 | 2336202 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

Flak that final nail you speak of was bought and paid for by central bankers and other crony capitalist. Opportunist and purposeful misdiagnosis, i.e. blaming capitalism when cronyism is to blame, is a tell. What system do you think is better and has it even been tried before?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 18:57 | 2336255 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

It was not a conspiracy, Alan G. really did believe things self-regulated...  For the most the PTB just looked out for themselves oblivious of the social consequences and costs...

A combination of greed and incompetance is indistigushable from a conspiracy....

People don't like what I have to say... The theory, which is very simple, is that Management, Labor and Govt. must co-exist and be in balance (similar to the US constitution).  The so-called German model of social democracy. When any group gets uppity, the other 2 restore the balance. It has the feature of having demonstrated that it works...

The naive ones here that think you can have some kind of minanarchist advanced technical society with corporations unchecked are delusional....

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 19:28 | 2336340 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

Let losers loose and go broke. Prosecute corrupt politicians and their cronys. Lock them up and throw away the key. Sieze their assets and refund the money to the people they fleeced. If that was the system we had right now, half the SP would be replaced with new and better companies within 5 years. The other half would straighten up.

Re:Greenspan, his choice of spouse tells you all you need to know about his so called belief system. Not enough booze in the world to explain that pairing.

What ever happend to losers just going bankrupt? Now the losers run to govt and get a bailout and the rest of us are left to argue over bullshit irrelevancies such as which team, blue or red, sucks the most. The loser politicians sponsor the bailouts. They were voted into office by loser citizens. This is the original loser sin. Red and blue team politicians suck with ever increasing degrees of suckitude. What we are seeing just a continuation of a long system of graft and corruption.

The anti-capitalist types are using this situation to claim this is a product of capitalism. Our economy today is not a natural result of winners and losers. Uncle Sam has its finger on the scale, boot up the ass, and hand in the wallet. Picking "winners" and forcing losses against its non-supporters. 

I responded to you in particular because I noticed you are criticizing capitalism but you didn't really let us know what system you thought was better. Thoughts?


Wed, 04/11/2012 - 20:17 | 2336477 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I'm sorry that you misunderstood me....

I am no enemy of capitalism but I do believe that the "Free Market" does have its limitations and that corporate power allowed to run amok is not a good thing...

Uncle Sam is a victim of captured regulation and I am tired of people exploiting the tragedy of the commons for their own gain...


Thu, 04/12/2012 - 03:25 | 2337012 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. — Benjamin Franklin

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:00 | 2334862 Mercury
Mercury's picture

No way.

To paraphrase Marx, this is "false hope."

There is still much, much more that the government wishes to control and many, many more people to transform into dependants.

Monetary collapse may short-circut the whole system first but central planning is still in first gear here.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:59 | 2334871 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Tyler, can you please post a chart of hedgeless_horseman's wealth index (HHWI) for the nation?

HHWI = Real Net Worth / Average Hours Worked Per Week

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:16 | 2334967 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

If the numerator is zero, then the value of your HHWI is zero. No need to complicate the presentation with charts and diagrams.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:50 | 2334875 Hansel
Hansel's picture

Wouldn't peak Marxism be at the apex of labor share of national income, and the trough peak capitalism/rent-seeking?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:09 | 2334938 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

"Peak Marxism" would *technically* occur when the greatest number of people understand what Marx wrote.

Check out the movie "They Live!" for an excellent representation of traditional Marxist philosophy.  The baddies in that film are the capitalists, Roddy's a prole, and "the church" is Marx and his pals.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:09 | 2335485 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I figure it was in 1903, and three thousand, two hundred and seventy six wouldn't be much of a peak....would it?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:36 | 2335614 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

I'm sure the number grew for a long time--may even be growing today. 

Just because we US'ians have generally rejected education doesn't mean the rest of the literate world has.  There are places where the essence of liberal thought is still understood.

I personally think our problems are ultimately biological, but refusal to investigate the subject is guaranteed to increase the pain as we thrash around.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:52 | 2334884 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Too many parasites on the backs and in the guts of us mules; parasites I tell you.

When the ticks, fleas, and tapeworms are that fat and happy you may have trouble plowing that field or riding off to battle, dear Lords and Ladies.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:54 | 2334885 blueridgeviews
blueridgeviews's picture

I remember being afraid of the Russians in the 1980's.  I never thought 25 years later I'd be most afraid of my own Gov't/people. We are in a sad state with no light at the end of the tunnel.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:57 | 2334902 V in PA
V in PA's picture

Ohh there's a light. It's the train.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:58 | 2334905 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Well... maybe your problem was that back in the 80's we had nothing to fear from the Soviets (who were doomed anyway for a variety of reasons) and that the people who convinced you otherwise were the mentors of the leaders you so rightly fear now???

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:15 | 2334963 blu
blu's picture

I seem recall that George Orwell covered that topic in one of his books.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:32 | 2335312 marathonman
marathonman's picture

The US will fail like the Soviets did 25 years ago for many of the same reasons. 

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 12:55 | 2334893 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Not even close to peak Marxism if Obama is going to be reelected.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:00 | 2334906 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

If you think Obama is a Marxist you have not been following very closely....

A real Marxist would have lined up the bankers against a wall and had them shot after a show trial....

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:03 | 2334917 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



A real Marxist would have lined up the bankers against a wall and had them shot after a show trial....

At least one person gets it.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 16:01 | 2335734 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Bullshit! Or were the Bolsheviks not real communists?

Their revolution was just another bankster coup.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:11 | 2334949 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

That's more like a "real communist." 

Marxism is the philosophy that describes the game--once you start trying to put that agenda into place, you become a communist.  Kinda like the difference between a physicist and an engineer.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:15 | 2334955 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Stalin was a Marxist, but to be truthful, his bankers were all in NYC and London, not up against any wall.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:27 | 2334968 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

.... and Marx was a Vaudevillian.

Edit: Tough crowd today... Ever notice what Harpo spelt backwards is?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:07 | 2335163 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Green SPX days make the residents grumpy.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:15 | 2334966 AmericanFUPAcabra
AmericanFUPAcabra's picture

re: flakmiester -Fourth post on a 30minute old thread. Not to mention the obligatory "first post bitchez" you try and get in every thread. Get a fucking job and stop filling up the comment pages with the same trite you spew on every topic no matter the topic. We all know your work for Uncle sam

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:18 | 2334973 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Lunch break... whatsa matter are you jealous?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:51 | 2335086 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

@Flakmoron: "If you think Obama is a Marxist you have not been following very closely....A real Marxist would have lined up the bankers against a wall and had them shot after a show trial...."

Existence of a central bank is a fundamental tenet of Marxism.


Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:56 | 2335118 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Maybe you did not read the fine print?

Do you understand the difference between a State owned and controlled Central bank and a privately owned Central bank that controls the State?

You certainly do not write like you are aware of the difference....

And easy on the gratuitous Ad homs, it only makes you look like a frustrated fool...

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 16:28 | 2335823 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Q.Fine print..

A. Fine print of what?

Q. Do I understand the difference between... et cetera.

A. Sure.

Q. Easy on the gratuitous Ad homs, it only makes you look like a frustrated fool...

A. What ad hominem? By the way who said I'm not a frustrated fool? I made no claim one way or the other. Anyway your original statement is wrong, but sadly it's an obvious wrong, if you have ever actually read Marx's tenets. So I don't think you have. A central bank is a key element to domination of a people.

So I'm not sure what drove your original comment, that Marx "would have shot them all," or something. I'm not sure I understand why you said that, it makes no sense, it does not fit with Marx, and it is directly contradictory with his stated Manifesto.

By the way, I'm not sure that calling  you a boob or whatever is an ad hominem. I don't really know you, so technically I can't "Ad Hom" you. But I think what you said is pretty silly at best, and really dumb at worst. But I will say this, I am sorry for insulting you. I promise it won't  happen again.

-Frustrated Fool

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 17:05 | 2335940 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

No, calling me Flakmoron is...

Actually, for shits and giggles I took a Marxist Philosophy course about 30 years ago as an elective.... Something about knowing thy enemy appealled to me at the time... Never forgot about that goddamm term paper about Alienation...The course turned out to be a crashing bore but it was mildly instructive...

And yes, it was somewhat tongue in cheek, but therein lies the essential truthfulness of the statement...Check out what the Chinese did recently to some crooked bankers...

And I said Marxist, not Marx.... get your story straight...

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 21:52 | 2336647 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Q. And I said Marxist, not Marx.... get your story straight...

A. What story?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:09 | 2335178 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

     Existence of a central bank is a fundamental tenet of Marxism.

Nope, wrong.  Maybe you should read some Marx?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 16:08 | 2335751 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Read Marx? LOL

Instead of wasting time reading books that aren't even LOGICALLY COHERENT, read Eugen Böhm von Bawerk's critiques of Marx instead. They're free, after all. (not to mention, coherent)

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 16:56 | 2335919 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Your suggestion perfectly demonstrates the root of the problem. You want something for nothing.

Skip the movie, read the review, and then brag about how much better you understand it than everyone around you.  If you hang in the right crowd, everyone around you will play along--they never saw the movie either.

Cliffnotes nation, baybee!

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 21:57 | 2336663 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Well let's google "tenets of Marxism."

Ah, there we have it, "Centralisation of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly."

Did I read it wrong?

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 10:30 | 2337725 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

You may be reading it right, but not understanding what it means. "Marxism" is a descriptive philosophy--it's not an economic *agenda.*

Centralization of credit in the banks of the state is a phase of late-period capitalism, which we're in RIGHT NOW, which is also commonly called "fascism," where the oligarchs who control the capital have captured the political process. 

This is the period during which the oligarchs overstep their bounds and generate sufficient anger amongst the proles to revolt.

It's also possible the webpage you linked to was written by someone else who doesn't quite have the distinction between "Marxism" and "Communism" straight.

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 10:10 | 2341428 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

So I read it right, but I don't understand what it means? Ok, what does it mean? Anyways the idea of Marxism not being an economic well...? Marx's tenet, which says (paraphrasing) "We must have a central bank" looks like an economic / financial implementation plan to me. Or "agenda" as you say.

So let me get this straight. Marx wrote the words I quoted, or he didn't?

"Phase of late period capitalism?" No, central banking has nothing to do with capitalism. It's Marxist idea. :)

Anyways I think what you are saying is a pretty Katie Couric - type tactic (i.e. a tactic of the Establishment) where they take their own agenda (central banking, and concomitant bailouts) and blame it on "too much free markets" or whatever. Hilarious. Capitalists responsible for the plague that is central banking. Very funny.


Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:04 | 2335154 rotagen
rotagen's picture

A real Marxist would have lined up the bankers against a wall and had them shot after a show trial....


Hey I think I like this Marx guy !!

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:14 | 2335496 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

No, a real Communist would have show trials and executions. The Marxist pretends all that can be avoided by simply going with the flow.  When the flow figures out that they are going to support everybody who doesn't feel like working, then the killings commence to get them back into the flow.  I should know, Uncle Joe killed to keep them in line. Uncle Leon was more hands off.


Looks like Soros has sent in the Media Matters 'A' Team instead of those feckless fucks who just whine.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:01 | 2334913 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

It is worth looking at Kaldor/Pasinetti and taking the Share of GDP accruing to Labour and adding the Share representing Consumer Credit in GDP to see if that explains Consumption. Since the Credit Share is "loaned" by the Capitalists it represents the bridge because much of what the Capitalists have acquired has been removed to tax havens such as Delaware and Cayman through Hedge Funds such as LTCM run out of CT, but incorporated in Delaware and based in Cayman - as were SPEs for Enron - all 362 of them.

The fact that Capital's share of GDP is not taxable adds to the problem since it too is using Bank Leverage to reduce taxable income yet funding itself through Offshore entities. The City of London is ideal for US operators to park funds in Jersey, Cayman, Bahamas, Gibraltar and use back-to-back loans for tax reduction strategies

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:03 | 2334916 RoadKill
RoadKill's picture

Actually you get a much more powerful investment thesis if you look at the inverse of this.

We all know that corporate profit margins are at all time highs and that corporate profits as a % of GDP are also at all time highs.  Currently corporate profits account for more then 8% of GDP, vs a 60 year average of closer to 6% and off recession lows of around 5%.

Analysts take these record levels - project margins will continue to rise over the next 5 years and that corporate profits will continue to grow faster then GDP (which will also magically go back to normal levels).  Then they place a historical multiple on those forward projections to come up with stock price predictions.

If stocks deserved a 13x-15x forward multiple when real GDP growth was 3%+, and corporate profits as a % of GDP went from 5% to 8% (meaning corporate profits grew 4x-5x faster then GDP) - What multiple do they deserve when real GDP growth is 1%-2% and corporate profits as a % of GDP decline from 8% back towards 6%?

Ohh - but AAPL and the market is CHEAP!!!




Actually I am BTFD.  Using today's dip to buy more TZA!

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:05 | 2334920 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Is Peak Marxism over at this period of time in America ?

You tell me after reading this......


Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:09 | 2334936 dcb
dcb's picture

don't like figures like this because it MAKES it seem as if incomes are going up, but when that extremes at the high end add income to an overall drop it means nothing

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:09 | 2334937 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

The FED monetized $30 trillion, and all I got for it is this lousy 'Net Worthless' T-shirt?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:10 | 2334941 MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

"The recovery in the stock market has been partly offset by the continuing drop in home prices."


However, the price of stocks is based upon a fraud perputrated on the public by the banking cartel and there are many fewer who benifit.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:12 | 2334946 blu
blu's picture

You ruined your thesis as soon as you called it "peak Marxism". That was poorly played.

It is "peak Corporatism" that got us to this point. The croney Fascist/Corporatist state is alive and well, thank you, and never been better off than now. Exporting jobs, raping the middle class, arming the police state, concentrating money. Concentrating power.

I don't think a minor uptick in labor participation counts for shit. 30 years of eroding fortunes are not reversed in a quarter. There is nothing to rejoice over. The 1% are not sweating in any fashion, if anything they are gathering their forces (armed metaphorically or otherwise) to wage an extended war against the entire rest of the species.

They might even win. For a while. But I think in the end they will end up mired in the same bloody history as the rest of us.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:32 | 2335023 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

While Marx makes for a great boogeyman and distraction for the frightened and confused, Mussolini goes unmentioned despite a plethora of potential side-by-side comparisons.

Too bad really.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:49 | 2335082 blu
blu's picture

I'm am firmly of the opinion that the omission is in no way accidental. A lot of the writers here are clearly mired neck-deep in the Corporatist mindset, either by long association or by confirmation bias. Either way, I notice a lot of "socialism is destroying American" when it is obvious to any child that the corporate take-over of the regulatory and governance structures of the nation has shaken our cherished democracy to it's foundations and quite probably destroyed true capitalism in this country for a hundred years.

It is becoming tiresome, this re-hash of the Cold War rhetoric that in hind-sight meant nothing then and from where we stand now even less than nothing,  rather is a perilous boat anchor dragging down any sort of real discussion of the problem.

The enemy is political Fascism and it's natural link to crony finances. Period. If we do not get our heads wrapped around this then we are finished as a nation.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:59 | 2335128 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Wow... it is so nice to read something written by someone that gets it...

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:01 | 2335132 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

I have often thought that if a rational Fascist dictatorship were to exist, then it would choose the American system. -- Noam Chomsky

Corporations can only do good. Hush now.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:26 | 2335256 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Yep.... That "Better living through Chemistry" and Pink Slime meme

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 18:31 | 2336182 GernB
GernB's picture

What on earth would make you think that socialilsm does not lead to a power structure that is suceptible to corruption in exactly the way you describe. The real problem is the broken midset that "we" get to impose our solutions to any problem on the serfs who aren't as smart as us and cannot be trusted to take care of themselves. It cannot be implemented without breaking down protections of the individual from the will of a public that only has sympathy for people when it is not inconvient to the goal of "fixing" things. Once individuals are no longer protected and the power to control them had been vested in a central authority, all you need is big money from corporations to perver the system and you have what we have now.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:21 | 2335225 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

The banks and the 1% are the ones who got "Peak Marxism". The rest of us got "Peak Capitalism" mixed with "Rising Fascism". So yes, Obomba is absolutely a peak Marxist...for his constituency.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 16:28 | 2335822 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture


Thank you for writing this.

The whole left (Lenin, Marx) v Right (Rand, Friedman) is such a trite and innaccurate argument when it comes to the US today......that is perpetuated by both MSM and really misinformed people. 

I know that ZH and the conservi-cons like to hammer this down and bang down on lefty. 

But lefty ain't your problem.  Methinks if Marx ran for president, he wouldn't be bankrolled by TBTF banks like Goldman Sachs like Obummer, Mittens, and Bush are.  Rand might of, but only after she fucked the entire board of directors.

And that's how the 1% want it.  Because the minute you identify what this system is, a version of Neo Feudal meets Quasi Fascism.........then the trigger hairs of the populace point towards the (evil portion) 1%. 

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:11 | 2334947 non_anon
non_anon's picture

time for Lenin-aide

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:18 | 2334950 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

And that chart showing the % of national income going to Labor doesn't account for the distribution within the Labor category. The "1%ers" account for an awfully large portion of the 58% total, basically leaving everybody else with "jack shit".

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:13 | 2334954 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

Seems confusing.  How does a CEO that is paid in stock options factor in to the income analysis?  In tech companies workers make their fortunes on stock options so they are both labor and owners.  Executives would fall into the same boat.  I wonder how the analysis corrects for that so the laborers stock is counted as income

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:19 | 2334975 surf0766
surf0766's picture

party like its' 1813

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:26 | 2334996 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Globalist Bankster terrorists declare all out war against the top .5%

JP Morgue Key player in Delta refinery bid.

Blythe Masters purchases the US with the FED's (citizens) money.

Somebody call the police. Arrest them. Throw them into prison. Hurry before they use the DHS to kill us.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:32 | 2335022 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Neither Fascism nor Communism, only US citizenism.

And peak has not yet occurred.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:53 | 2335423 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture


Wed, 04/11/2012 - 13:43 | 2335057 alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

Not really. It's just that the recent trillions of Bernanke funny money (that I'm sure are somehow included in the GDP) are owned by "capital owners". That's anyways how the austrian school describes inflation; the new money gets into the connected people's hands, then eventually in the lower echelons and as it does, loses value.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:04 | 2335146 TMT
TMT's picture

I love the technical aspects of ZH, but again these boards are infected with OWS losers who without fail constantly blame the 1% for every fucking ill in this country.

Get out of your smelly tent in Zucotti park and think for a second.  I 100% agree that TPTB pull all the strings in the US.  And, yes, TPTB are obviously part of the 1%.  But also part of that 1% are common people who work hard and make a lot of money - but in no way have access to politicians, help frame public policy to their advantage, game the system, etc.  We need more of these people.  But if some of you had your way you would execute these people (apparently just to make yourself feel better about your position in life).

Try being a little more astute and less infantile.



Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:14 | 2335201 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

If you 1%'ers who got where you are through hard work would spend a bit more time learning what's gone wrong, you'd be able to help fix things, instead of calling the folks who are on your side names.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:18 | 2335220 TMT
TMT's picture

First, I'm not a 1%-er.  Second, I do know what's wrong with our system.  What leads you to believe I don't?  Third, people that deride those who are successful are not on my side, in fact they are part of the problem because they cloud the issue by conflating those who are successful with those who are corrupt.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:57 | 2335446 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

"Second, I do know what's wrong with our system.  What leads you to believe I don't? " Bullshit. Instead of commenting on your dislikes of ZH and OWS let us hear your explaination of whats wrong with the system.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:30 | 2335582 TMT
TMT's picture

I love ZH, I just hate the OWS parasites who hate everyone who is successful.

What's wrong with our system?  Corruption.  The fix - limited government, states rights, end the fed, sensible banking regluations (GS), no bailouts, flat tax with no deductions, term limits ... basically the platform of RP.

What's your fix?  Sit in a tent, don't shower, beat a drum, scream for handouts?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:59 | 2335725 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

   The fix - limited government, states rights, end the fed, sensible banking regluations (GS), no bailouts, flat tax with no deductions, term limits .

If you spend your time focusing on the FIX, you've got a far better shot at seeing some of it during your lifetime than if you just bitch about smelly hippies in a park. 

I assure you, there will NEVER be a time when everyone on the planet behaves the way you think they should, and if you keep bitching about those folks, you're squandering the resources you actually have which could accomplish something positive.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 16:43 | 2335877 TMT
TMT's picture

Wake up dunderdog.  Part of the fix is exposing those who preach "change" when in fact all they want is free shit.  Part of the fix is doing away with the parasites.  I accomplish many positive things with my resources, but I refuse to let my hard earned resources be pissed away on useless uneducated parasites.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 17:01 | 2335929 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Neener neener!

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 17:17 | 2335981 TMT
TMT's picture

Go back to your tent and braid your boyfriend's hair.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 17:35 | 2336023 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

I agree with your agenda, interestingly.  EVERY SINGLE THING that you listed as part of a "fix" are changes I'd generally support (except for term limits, which I'm totally indifferent about).

If I'm an OWS'er, so are you.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 17:52 | 2336084 TMT
TMT's picture

Fair enough.  Thanks for the heated exchange.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:33 | 2335321 forrestdweller
forrestdweller's picture

tptb are pulling hte strings, but with the best intentions. people can be greedy and immoral and having al long term vision for their country at the samen time.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:53 | 2335415 itstippy
itstippy's picture

The movement is "Occupy Wall Street" - not "Destroy The 1%".  The message gets intentionally blurred by the media.  OWS folks aren't angry at successful business owners who provide jobs and opportunities in their communities.  They're angry at WALL STREET.

The OWS crowd is very diverse.  It's not just a bunch of jobless, face-painting, tent-dwelling, bongo-playing dreamers.  It's entirely possible to be simultaneously a tax-hating Tea Party sympathizer, a croney-capitalism hating OWS sympathizer, and financially well off.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:33 | 2335596 TMT
TMT's picture

I only disagree witht your first sentence.  I post a sensible gripe I have with the OWS posters on here - how they conflate the good 1% with the bad 1% and I get down voted.  Then I've seen many posts on here saying "eat the rich" and they are 10-1 up votes.

Sorry, but most of the OWS crowd simply hates anyone who is successful.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:47 | 2335665 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

   Sorry, but most of the OWS crowd simply hates anyone who is successful.

You keep repeating this, but where's your basis for this claim?  You've spent awhile talking to the folks you're lumping together?

Maybe you're getting junked not because you have some given opinion, but because you're just pissing on other folks wiithout any explanation or context.

Let's see what happens if we use a different example of your posts:

Ron Paul supporters simply hate women, blacks, and hispanics.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 16:49 | 2335901 TMT
TMT's picture

Without explanation or context?  How fucking slow are you?  I've explained and contextualized my argument in many posts here.  Can you read or do you just emote?

How about I turn the tables - why don't you prove to all of us that OWS admires those who are successful, that they actually want to contribute to society, that they don't want anything for free (job, health care, etc.).  Show me.

I have no clue what the last part of your post means.  I think the Zucotti air infected your congnitive abilities.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 17:02 | 2335933 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

I bow my head in shame for taking so much time out of my day to feed a troll.  Sigh.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 17:24 | 2335997 TMT
TMT's picture

Translation - I have no substantive way to answer you.

Back to your tent littly boy.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 16:36 | 2335849 itstippy
itstippy's picture

The mainstream news media use 30-second video clips to cover complex issues.  Any longer and their audience switches channels to Kissing The Kardashians.  

Tea Party is defined by video clips of goofballs wearing longcoats and three-corner hats, ringing bells and reading proclamations from parchment scrolls.  OWS is defined by video clips of tent cities populated by unemployed alternative-lifestyle goofballs wearing tie-dye and facepaint, beating drums and chanting naive slogans.

It's very frustrating.  These are both legitimate movements with serious economic messages, but they're portrayed as fringe loonies deserving ridicule.  It's part of the whole Manipulation Of Perception Economics (MOPE) crap coming from Washington and Wall Street.  It's also part of the Divide And Conquer strategy of TPTB.  TPTB own the mainstream news media and they use it to their advantage.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 17:07 | 2335947 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

     These are both legitimate movements with serious economic messages, but they're portrayed as fringe loonies deserving ridicule.

Ridicule is what the audience seems to prefer.  Thinking about stuff is hard.  Yelling catcalls is easy. 

It's basically like we're in the back of the bus with a dead driver, and the passengers who want to change the direction can't get their hands on the wheel because of all the fistfights in the aisle.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:52 | 2335417 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

No body gives a fuck what YOU think of ZH so don't bother commenting unless you have something to say.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:36 | 2335606 TMT
TMT's picture

Another intelligent post from the guy in a tent.  Have you posted anyting of substance today?

Again, I love ZH, but hate the parasitic OWS posters like you.  You failed in this life, fine.  But don't take it out on those who succeeded.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:31 | 2335296 forrestdweller
forrestdweller's picture

is speculating with other people's money or with freshly printed lollars considered labor?

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 14:54 | 2335426 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

TMT you obviously have never been to an Occupy event as this is a totally peaceful movement. As I tried to advise at the Occupy London Stock Exchange, buying PHyziCaL SILVER 999 Coins is the way we should move forward in terms of sound money as the banner stateing 'End Fiat Currency' needed to be addresed. This is a wonderful movement that will bring about positive change as all religious faiths have shown support. ALL RELIGIOUS FAITHS! THAT IS POWERFUL! MORE POWERFUL THAN THE POWERS THAT BE! TPTB no that The People United Will Never Be Defeated! Cause and effect, Karma, call it what you will, try as hard as you like, you can't evict an idea!

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:42 | 2335643 TMT
TMT's picture

I have never been to an OWS event.  I agree with ending fiat currency.  But don't be so quick to hold up the OWS-ers on a pedestal - the group is filled with a bunch of under-achieving malcontents.  You should start a splinter group that can better articulate your positions.  Again, I agree with some of the OWS positions, but they will never gain critical mass because the cause is dilluted with parasites loooking for free shit.

Just my opinion.  Thanks for the exchange.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 15:20 | 2335535 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Marxism... sure... I'd call it Friedmanism, but hey, that's me...

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 18:35 | 2336158 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Perhaps a tad too subtle for the crowd today... but a few of us noticed the connection....

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 18:15 | 2336145 reTARD
reTARD's picture

There’s a great deal to be said for compulsion, provided it’s democratically planned. The common good must always come first, whether we like it or not.

Something’s got to be done about the masses. They’ve got to be led. They don’t know what’s good for them. What I mean is, I can’t understand why people of culture and position like us understand the great ideal of collectivism so well and are willing to sacrifice our personal advantages, while the working man who has everything to gain from it remains so stupidly indifferent. I can’t understand why the workers in this country have so little sympathy with collectivism.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 19:18 | 2336314 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

   I can’t understand why the workers in this country have so little sympathy with collectivism.

Because the wealthiest business-owners run the collectives, and the workers just get shafted for participating in them.  They're called "corporations," and they exist to aggregate dollars in fewer and fewer hands.

People don't need to be led, though.  Things get bleak enough, the scales tip, and the guys who were running the most efficient collectives get murdered and their assets seized and redistributed. 

Then we start the whole game over again with a different set of players.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 20:59 | 2336541 reTARD
reTARD's picture

The Italicized comments are actually quotes from The Fountainhead.

You right in the sense that as in Atlas Shrugged, crony businessmen teamed up with crony, power-hungry politicians into the merger of corporate and state powers. In other words, what we have had here in America for decades, perhaps many more, is fascism (to varying degrees). Never was it a truly free market.

What do you think government is? Not only is government a monopoly on force (coercion, “legalized” extortion of money via taxation and inflation of money supply) and violence (invade and bomb people "lawfully"), it is also the biggest and most powerful collective. Government is what the mafia wishes it could be; bigger and “legal.” Is it not government which creates corporations by the laws it writes? And governments like corporations only concentrate power and protect its politicians and owners from actual responsibility and liability.

Thu, 04/12/2012 - 10:42 | 2337777 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

It's not like I didn't realize you were plaigiarizing.

Did you have any point?  I read the books.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 20:03 | 2336449 dxj
dxj's picture

Try adding in "Personal Current Transfer Receipts" to labor income before applying the numerator. The trend remains net/net flat as before. Perhaps this will cause you come to an entirely different conclucsion about the application of Marxism.

Wed, 04/11/2012 - 21:00 | 2336553 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Is Media-Driven "Pseudo-Reality" the Future of U.S. Politics?

... "Politically, we may be moving more and more toward a world where our beliefs are shaped not by what is really true, but instead by the pseudo-realities created by talk shows and political pundits," says Dietram A. Scheufele, the John E. Ross Professor of Life Sciences Communication at UW-Madison and an expert in public opinion research.

... "Most citizens observe the political theater in Washington indirectly through the lens of mass media. And our findings show that misinformation about what politicians say or do can become fact in voters' minds if it is just repeated often enough in news media."

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!