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New Fiscal Compact, Or More Of The Same For Europe?

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Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:13 | 2019761 Irish66
Irish66's picture

pot meet kettle

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:47 | 2019861 FinHits
FinHits's picture

Japan, USA, UK are some sort of black cauldrons in the deficit/GDP metrics, I believe.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:51 | 2019883 walküre
walküre's picture

Before Japan got obliterated with 2 nukes and forced to swallow the banker's debt pill, they were a proud nation...

Now they're a miserable perverted bunch with 200% debt/GDP and drowning their pains in Sake by the gallons.


Thu, 12/29/2011 - 15:43 | 2020075 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

"The beatings will continue until morale improves."

Which coincidentally, might've been coined by a Japanese Navy Commander in WWII.


Thu, 12/29/2011 - 16:13 | 2020176 walküre
walküre's picture

So what? The sentiment of that phrase has been used for EONS.

Ask the Brits when they were officially done paying their WW2 war loans back to the bankers.

The sovereigns are all under the death grip of the bankers. Just how and where did these bankers amass such wealth to be in that position?

Surely it was farming, right?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 16:19 | 2020187 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

Sometimes I’m really confused, US has about 14T GDP that means it’s vibrant and producing nation. When I go to US the only American product I can buy is turkey kolbasa or some other shit like that. All stores are stuffed with Chinese or Indian, or Thai, or Taiwanese, or whoever products. I know US is good at manufacturing armaments for it’s own use and some side sales to all those little tyrants all over the world. Even if you look at Apple, it’s products are coming from Asia. So my question is what that GDP number means? You’re charging so much for medicare and Medicaid, have so much markups on outside products just supplying packaging, your financial services are scheming the world to deliver so much or where the fuck this GDP number is coming from? Maybe food stamps are included in it? Or unemployment payments?

Does anybody knows? You guys are driving German, Japanese cars or some times American make which anyway is made in 80% in Asia. Is that Hollywood production so big, or Lady Gaga delivers 1T to GDP. Sorry, I don’t understand.   

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 16:31 | 2020233 walküre
walküre's picture

As long as the corporate headquarter is located within the US of A, their revenue is part of GDP.

The "D" as in Domestic is misleading. Multinational corporations are not domestic.

Apple, HP, IBM, Walmart, Coca Cola, Pfizer and so on are American companies with headquarters in the US and taxed on sales in the US. Their production and their customers are all over the planet but that's besides the point.

Not sure what you're really trying to say.. the GDP numbers in this day and age are in my opinion bull shit.

Remember, the numbers benefit governments to exercise more leverage and of course the bankers that are more than willing to give it to them.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 16:41 | 2020275 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

What I meant is what you said "Remember, the numbers benefit governments to exercise more leverage and of course the bankers that are more than willing to give it to them" and percentages of debt to GDP is total bullshit! Cannot be measure of ability to borrow and repay loans.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 22:18 | 2020805 malek
malek's picture

YES, yes, and yes (all government payouts are included in GDP). You have answered your question yourself.

What do you think where most of the profit from every sold Apple gadget is going to?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 16:21 | 2020199 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Prior to each European resort BS Fest, we hear they only have weeks or days.

Then the shells are moved around with a new facility, mechanism, swap or twist, and the dire predictions start over.


Thu, 12/29/2011 - 23:28 | 2020937 ThrivingAdmistC...
ThrivingAdmistCollapse's picture

All true, but because most of their debt is owned by their own people, I don't think that Japan will suffer a full scale economic collapse before we do.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:56 | 2019904 tim73
tim73's picture

The US Bureau of Engraving and Printing should print one Elvis dollar...  50 000 000 000 000. That should solve the problem.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 18:41 | 2020546 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

New problem...

Making change

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 15:38 | 2020065 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

More like "pot meet bong." I'm mean by the time Europe "gets around" to...whatever...someone will have already written "the stoners guide to QE."

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:19 | 2019777 Misean
Misean's picture

NEW AND IMPROVED! Mo' better Flexible rules with socialized costs and privatized profits!

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 15:50 | 2020096 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Well, it's not like society can function without flexible standards!

Personally, I'm eagerly awaiting when they start easing the ones on measurement of size and mass. I'd say the number of inches in a foot is a good place to start. Why twelve? Myself, I'm partial to eleven, as it's like ten, but less boring, as it's prime!

It also has lots of super-secret powers, according to the numerologist who shaves my cat.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:56 | 2019792 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



This type of "discipline" never works.  You can try to dissuade children from bad actions, but one should never try to protect children from bad results.  We are built to learn from our failures. 

A good clue how this will turn out...

...as we note today's lost-in-the-storm headlines from Greece that they are dropping their capital gains tax increases

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:26 | 2019803 The Reich
The Reich's picture







They actually exceeded 3% all the time.

Like the PIIGS.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:27 | 2019804 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Tired of the endless Euro-lunacy soap opera?  Here is refreshing blast of Fresh Air (Oct 2011). 

The ECB's elusive 2 trillion-euro bailout fund - Farage


Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:34 | 2019822 Irish66
Irish66's picture

economic prison,   thank you

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:29 | 2019810 machineh
machineh's picture

Keep in mind that most governments use cash-basis budgeting.

On an accrual basis, their deficits are considerably larger. 

That's what is meant by the term 'structural deficit.' Hint: Demographics (retirees to workers ratio) are only going to worsen deficits in developed economies.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:35 | 2019817 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

Financial repression indeed. TPTB have to beat gold down as best they can before the new year. The central bankers do not want charts showing gold up 40% for the year when they aren't giving you dick in terms of %yield on bonds. They'll be screaming one day, though, once their pretty little paper derivatives market gets zeroed and the only thing of any remaining value is the precious.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:36 | 2019829 kito
kito's picture

Derivatives going to zero doesn't destroy the currency. In fact it clears out all of the imaginary money leaving cold hard cash as king. You are seeing the last of the gold and silver glory days.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:47 | 2019859 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Could be, and of course if that doesnt work they can just declare its illegal for anyone but world banks to hold PM coins. And really, what would anyone do about it?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 15:04 | 2019912 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

huh? I never said the currency would collapse if derivatives bombed. I said the fun and games for the bankers (aka. rape and pillage of the populace) would come to a sudden end. Banks would once again be used as a check clearing houses and speculators would return to blue-collar work sweeping floors as a degree/skill set in financial 'trickery' would find no practical use in the new economy.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 15:13 | 2019962 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I think theyre already there, what are they really doing except dealing themselves hands from a stacked deck in a rigged casino? Theyre raping and pillaging who, a bunch of bankrupt people?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 22:30 | 2020005 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

they will squeeze every last drop of blood from the stone which is the middle-class. They won't stop even when 99.999% of the population is totally broke, next they will move to run-up the price everything J6P needs with the little amount of fiat he can muster, then they pass laws ensuring the vacuum of financial rape stays in place and finally put in a Police State to stamp out any resistance should the populace find the nerve to fight back against their masters plight.

Interesting world we live in when the above is exactly what is unfolding present day

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 23:10 | 2020902 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Derivatives going to zero doesn't destroy the currency. In fact it clears out all of the imaginary money leaving cold hard cash as king.

No, not cold hard cash as king, more like cold hard reality as king, in the form of bright red balance sheets.

Derivatives are a (fake) way of turning those bright red balance sheets black.  Derivatives all unwind, bright red returns.

And yes, a quadrillion of unwinding derivatives might just all net out to zero, having no effect on currency values since it doesn't change the money supply.

But it sure would return the financial world to bright red insolvent bankrupt reality.

You are seeing the last of the gold and silver glory days.

...until the US dollar crashes into worthlessness ...or slowly slips into worthlessness. 

Why do you dollar bugs refuse to acknowledge the steadily sinking value of the dollar, which has lost 1/3 of it's value just since '08?

I agree, gold and silver aren't getting more valuable. 

The dollar is losing value ...which you and your ilk refuse to acknowledge.


Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:47 | 2019860 Voodoo-economist
Voodoo-economist's picture

A derivative crash would mean one hell of leverage reduction which contradicts strong PMs imho

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 15:42 | 2020073 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Oooooo. Hey! The Baby's back! Tell us you were you were "la femme flagrante" when you took that picture of yourself!

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:41 | 2019819 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

OT: I'm loving watching the SPX cling to the 200DMA. Oil is recovering all of its losses for the day as well.  Cannot let anything reach fair value until after the new year.

Also I found the 10Y rate chart rather humorus http://www.multpl.com/interest-rate/

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:33 | 2019821 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Love the title - this time we're serious. Honest!

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:40 | 2019840 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

even the technocrats can see that 12 outa 17 = supermajority

print 'til she blows, BiCheZ!


Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:43 | 2019845 chaartist
chaartist's picture

Amazing speech of Ryanair chief to european politicians http://dotsub.com/view/aa4dd960-8c1d-40a8-b772-512b4f98b80d

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:43 | 2019847 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

There needs to be a financial Onion.  They need only print the facts.  ZH does it and reality sets in.  But if the Onion explains it in their inimicable way, perhaps all the 18 year olds that don't vote can prevent their only future career choice being the army.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 15:54 | 2020110 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Why reinvent the WSJ?

Surely, I'm not the only one who reads it in a sarcastic voice?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:49 | 2019853 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

SANCTION the broke countries that cant meet their payments, yes of course. I guess that means cutting off their food and energy supplies, or something.

Anyway, its obvious elite bankers win, peasants suck paddy water. As usual.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:47 | 2019862 walküre
walküre's picture

Why is the media paying any attention this week to bond auctions and sales? This is the slowest week of the year. Unless the tone changes, I don't see any different headlines for 2012 than we've seen for most of 2011. Debt, debt, debt.. Greece is fading away, Italy is front and center stage and the next candidates are lining up.

Tired of it yet?

The bankers control the media. The bankers are using the media to hold the nations hostage. They get bailed out each and every time. If they don't get bailed out, they finance wars to get their message across.

Isn't it time for REAL CHANGE?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:51 | 2019880 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Its like they all actually believe we're out of all this trouble, because its a different date? A different year? 'OH, well see now its 2012, so its all good'...Insanity.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 15:46 | 2020083 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Now you know why the CIA answers only to it's Director. Can I get a "hooray for the CIA!" from anyone here? Anyone? Hellloooo...anyone?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:49 | 2019871 tim73
tim73's picture

Compared to 11 percent of GDP budget deficit USA Eurozone nations are penny pinching, prudent savers. Plus all future liabilities, mere 500 percent of GDP or about 450 000 dollars per US household. 

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:55 | 2019900 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Europe is like Alcoholics Anonymous trying to cure its members by starting a liquor store. It believes it can ween its members off the booze called debt by using new drinks called LTRO and EFSF.  It's all bullshit but it's the best they can do. The level of growth in the Eurozone is so poor that they can barely tread water let alone swim. As a result the sharks called debt default  and speculators are circling.

The only way to get out of this before they totally kill the future, is to actually find out who the true owners of the debt are, haircut the  debt according to each groups ability to cope with a writedown and hand over state assets to gutted pension funds so as to protect the citizenry in their old age and so as to take the pressure off the national budgets.

If governments do not shrink to make way for private initiative then we will see the continuing devouring of each nation's GDP until we end up in some sort of Soviet command economy. And we all now how well that went.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 15:11 | 2019950 tim73
tim73's picture

Where this magical growth is supposedly going to come anyway? Most eurozone nations are at the top-20 countries in terms of GDP, living standards, health care, social services etc. There is simply no more room for growth.

Those "magical" BRIC and other 3rd world nation fabulous growth figures come from the fact, they started from Dilbert's "Elbonia" level mud huts and shanty towns. That kind of fast growth westerners experienced already in the 1950/60's. Their yearly numbers will also go down eventually, just like it did for us gradually, starting from 70's.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 15:32 | 2020031 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



+1 for Scott (this comic finally works)

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 15:25 | 2020010 rocketgas
rocketgas's picture

This time we a making pot smoking double illegal

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