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The New Retirement Normal: The Average American Must Work For Two Extra Years After Death

Tyler Durden's picture


While Italy is bickering over just how inhumane it is to raise the retirement age by 2 years in a 15 year span (which works out to a whopping 48 days per year) and will likely lead to mass riots and bloodshed in Rome before the idea is ultimately scrapped, things in America's own back yard, the country that now that the EFSF is finished will have no choice but to come to Europe's rescue via the IMF, are looking horrendous to quite horrendous. In fact when it comes to retirement, 80 is, we are sad to say, the new 65, at least according to Wells Fargo. And with average life expectancy in the US peaking at 78.1, it means that the typical American will have to work for an additional 2 years after death to pay for not only not having any retirement savings (thank you Bernanke ZIRP and VIX>30 stock market), but to make sure Europeans have theirs. You think we jest? Nope.

From Bloomberg:

Eighty is the new 65,” Joseph Ready, executive vice president of Wells Fargo Institutional Retirement & Trust, said in an interview at Bloomberg headquarters in New York before the survey was released today. “It’s a real sea change.”


About 76 percent of respondents said it’s more important to reach a specific dollar amount before retiring, compared with 20 percent who said it’s more important to retire at a given age, regardless of savings, according to the survey of adults with household incomes or assets from about $25,000 to $100,000.


About 74 percent expect to work in retirement, according to the survey, with about 39 percent working because they’ll need to and 35 percent because they want to. And 25 percent of those surveyed said they expect they’ll need to work until at least age 80 because they don’t have sufficient savings.


“People are starting to move toward understanding the different levers of what they’re going to have to do to make it in retirement,” Ready said.


About 68 percent of those surveyed said they’re not confident the stock market is a good place to invest their retirement savings. About 45 percent of respondents said if they were given $5,000 they would buy a certificate of deposit, and 50 percent said they’d invest it in stocks or mutual funds.

It's still not too late to jump on the board the Ponzient Express:

“Even though there’s a lack of confidence, I don’t know that they see there’s a good alternative,” to investing in stocks, said Laurie Nordquist, executive vice president of Wells Fargo Institutional Retirement & Trust.

Obviously prepare to work for at least 20 or so years after death if one wishes to go long Netflix and short GMCR.

As for the math: oops.

Survey respondents had saved a median of $25,000 towards retirement and estimated they’d need a median of $350,000 to support themselves in retirement. About 42 percent expect to receive a pension or already receive one.


“The numbers don’t add up,” Nordquist said. “The gap is probably larger than what they self identified.”


Those surveyed expect to withdraw about 18 percent on average from their savings each year in retirement.


“We would recommend typically 4 percent or less, in terms of withdrawals,” Nordquist said.


About 57 percent of respondents said they’re confident they’ll have saved enough for retirement.


“You used to just save blindly, but I think the blinders are coming off,” Ready said.

And the key one blinder being that if America agrees to fund the IMF's bailout of Europe, which make no mistake is coming any day now, not only will future generations of Americans be China's debt slaves in perpetuity or at least until China makes the fatal mistake it can do whatever insanity it wishes just because its currency has "reserve" status and MMT said so, but the existing one will have to find a way to work efficiently in a rather zombified condition, or else get bitten by Robert Pattinson and live forever, if with a slight bias toward SPF 100,000,000 tanning lotion.


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Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:37 | 1889366 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

Tyler ?


PS... Don't Sweat It Too Much, We will have a NEW FIATS in about 2 yrs.


Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:37 | 1889382 wanklord
wanklord's picture

What’s all the uproar?
It seems that most of Americans never bothered themselves to learn living within their means, save some money, plan for the future, get a decent education and avoid credit at all.

The blame must be placed specifically on the so-called Baby Boomers, a failed generation who really enjoyed the prosperity of the 50s and 60s; instead, they focused all of their deprived intellect in experimenting with all types of drugs and having very promiscuous sexual lives. These people have done nothing for this country and now they are so scared of potentially not being able to collect their government entitlements (paradoxically, they are the majority).

Therefore, America as a broken society is now paying the consequences of its own greed, lack of common sense and stupidity.

Someone said that Americans are just a bunch of stupid animals easy to manipulate and subdue. The sooner the US economy collapses the better, so the ignorant populace will finally learn NOT to live beyond their means – and stop blaming the government, since they don’t give a crap about people’s grievances.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:46 | 1889417 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

I think its only a few Bad APPLES that caused 99% of this Crisis Shit Goin Down ...

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 22:15 | 1890008 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

I've never had a pension, always managed to avoid it and so I find myself with money in gold, no employers contributions and no restrictions on when I can access my money.

Nothing in life is free, that I have always known, so when anyone tells me my employer  will pay -for free- I just head for the door, and more so if the catch is not immediately apparent. It has become clear for more than a decade now how this ends. I keep my gold and everyone else loses their pension. So who got what for free?

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 08:04 | 1890686 GoldBricker
GoldBricker's picture

Bad Apples, eh?

So if we just get 'the right people' in there, things will get better, right?

Buy this book ($12 from Economics in One Lesson, by Hazlitt. It was written in the 1940s, when people said the same thing (debunked by Hazlitt). When did we ever get the right people in political and bureaucratic offices?

The problem is the incentives in the system. Politicians bankrupt countries because that is how you get elected. Try running for anything on a fiscal responsibility platform, promising handouts to nobody; you'll find it a short and unpleasant experience.

The root problem is credit-based money and all that it implies; all else follows from that. One thing it implies is interest (usury), the evils of which were understood by ancient Hebrews (jubilees), early Christians, ancient Greeks (see Aristotle's Politics), continuing today with Moslems.

Debt with interest is a one-way ratchet -- it has to end the way that it's ending now. The only question will be how much damage is done before the inevitable is accepted.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:13 | 1889538 Joeman34
Joeman34's picture

"Someone said that Americans..."

You say it by cutting/pasting into every one of your lame-ass posts, jackass.  You can throw stones all you want, but sooner or later you're going to break a pane in your own glass house.  This is not a country-specific problem.  The enture world is overleveraged.  Your use of infantile rhetoric to separate yourself for the global malaise once again illustrates your ignorance. 

Again, please go away.  You offer no insight or usefulness to these threads.  As far as I'm concerned, you're on mute from now on...


Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:14 | 1889545 nyse
nyse's picture


Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:21 | 1889576 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

his entire post has been copied and pasted in numerous threads...  troll alert.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:24 | 1889583 Joeman34
Joeman34's picture

Yup, just press the mute button and junk him everytime...

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:28 | 1889592 Hard1
Hard1's picture

Afterlife credit slaves you zombie bitchez!

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 21:18 | 1889875 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

"troll alert."



Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:01 | 1889692 Gohn Galt
Gohn Galt's picture

This is everyone's problem.  If we could lock up the Leader's I am sure that people who are reasonable,  and does not need to be better or less than another person, we could do it.  If you want to be self sufficient on all counts in the current system you need invisibility and payoff money.  Our people need protection from governments, empowerment and the right to self govern, pre-approve liabilities.  Without government or other parasite intervention it is simple to set up a group and make them self sufficient.  I envision a lot of smaller communities worldwide so that everyone can be involved, care and create communities around the needs of that community. 

Big government is always a problem, even for dictators, remember the Rome's year of the four emperors.  Taking those positions in Greece and Italy seams like an inevitable death sentence.  It's always been difficult for me to understand why anybody would blindly trust any government.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:32 | 1889767 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Also. The current Head of the IRS is a felon according to the tax code. And Al Capone in his later years was actually a teatotaler.

You can not possibly make this stuff up.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 21:41 | 1889923 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

I like where you're going with this.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:09 | 1889718 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>This is not a country-specific problem.  The enture world is overleveraged.

So you agree that what he said about Americans is true?


Thu, 11/17/2011 - 21:01 | 1889839 Gohn Galt
Gohn Galt's picture

Dr. Acula, I not sure if that question was for me.  However, I love the idea of America.  My father was certain that I would be able to be self sustainable, be able to learn on my own, protect myself.  Like the rugged individualist able to go out and create everything I need from scratch if necessary. 

I think that most American's and people around the world have been deceived and betrayed.  Most Americans like the hollywood lifestyle that is on television, it is fleeting.  I have had to sacrifice and mold my body and mind with my will or my fathers guiding fist.  The US has been vetting out people of old American values since I was born and now has put them on the domestic terrorist list.  The hardest part about this life is fighting for the right over and over again.  In my opinion, this heritage is the right of every American and should be for all people. 



Thu, 11/17/2011 - 22:19 | 1890021 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

What makes you think that America is in any way special in this regard?

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 10:18 | 1891010 Gohn Galt
Gohn Galt's picture

Who knows.  America is my birthplace, but I can't cook and eat breakfast without risking fines and possible imprisonment from FDA their buddy agencies.  Being on this board might be argued felonious under the new laws.  US citizens are required to file with the IRS every year, if you do not live in the US this still applies.  In order to cut the cord you have to petition a Federal Judge, if you get released (buy your freedom) you have to pay fines, paid all debts in full and prepay taxes for .  The process takes 1 - 2 years + and has been known to be a multi million dollar endeavor.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 10:40 | 1891082 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

'America is my birthplace, but I can't cook and eat breakfast without risking fines and possible imprisonment from FDA their buddy agencies. '- That's about right, but it isn't an American phenomenon either, there are many places now where you don't even need leave your home to get fined...

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 02:27 | 1890520 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

There is often - I dare say even usually, real, intelligent discourse on this list (unlike other financial 'news' sites that will remain nameless), but alas, the Lord Wanker lives up to his name most (every) time and adds not a whit - tired old re-cycled ideas that don't particularly connect to what we are talking about.

One question I will throw out there, because I don't like the 'give-it-ups' , is whether there is any possibility of finding someone left in Congress willing to haul Uncle Ben up and suggest (cough) to  him that the taxpayers are not keen on bailing out Europe. If enough light can get shone on this dark Fed game, the fed-up taxpayers just might start hanging ropes on the Wall Street lightposts...and adding weights to keep the ropes from flopping around...

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:22 | 1889554 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture



Yup..  super easy to subdue.  So much so that we tread wherever we choose..

Its Not like we don't have tons of bases, boots on the ground, flag on the moon, probes on Mars, or satellites outside the solar system..

You're just fucking stupid.. every time you post..


Thu, 11/17/2011 - 21:45 | 1889935 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

Agreed. I might be pissed about shit in my country right now, but I'd rather be here than anywhere else. This is where I was born. This is where I was raised. This is where my family has been for generations.

I'm not going anywhere and this is equally as much MY country as it is that fuck face's and THAT pisses me off.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 22:21 | 1890024 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

You need to get out more. It will give you a different perspective on the world...

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 22:46 | 1890068 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

Ah okay.

Guy on internet website comments on my internet website comment:

You need to get out more. It will give you a different perspective on the world...

Now I get it.

Fuck off.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 23:34 | 1890129 Lower Class Elite
Lower Class Elite's picture

I'm pretty sure he wrote that while sitting in his room (in his Mom's basement) eating Cheeto's, wearing only his tighty whiteys and his favorite Yngvie Malmstein concert tee shirt.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 03:07 | 1890544 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

So you're pretty sure eh? - Er no, it was written from an office in a house where I have lived for more than ten years which is half way round the world from where I was born.

and he/she and you really should get out more, you will understand why tossers like this have a very insular and over rated opinion of themselves...and being 'pretty sure' without any knowledge whatsoever just makes your opinion utter fucking drivel.

Get a life, I thoroughly recommend it.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 19:03 | 1892846 Lower Class Elite
Lower Class Elite's picture

Wow!  A real office?  With a desk and bookcases and shit?  That sounds ultra-badass.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 02:39 | 1890530 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

Hey tekhneek, let me say the same thing in a completely different way: I agree with you 100% that this is my country, and I ain't going anywhere. I did 6 years and change in the Infantry once, left honorably, and have lived (off the grid) in the country for 40 years now. When I get really pissed about this stuff - too much time watching the trading screen and reading ZH on the other monitor, I take a reasonably short drive to my local airport and fire up my Piper Cub - it's an antique, like me.- and go fly low and slow over the hills and Pacific Coast of northern California. It does sooth the mind - and provides a different perspective and a reminder of just how beautiful this country can be.

This does not change the fact that Corazine is a rotten fuck that should be in jail, or any of the rest of the crud going down at the moment; but it does allow one to breath and enjoy life.

Maybe that's what Harlyquin (sp?) meant....

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 03:57 | 1890565 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Well nobody, I thank you for a great attempt at diplomacy but I am referring to the simple fact that most Americans never leave the State they were born in, and when you do, and especially if you travel abroad for any length of time then you will very quickly realise that the crud you are spoon-fed from birth by your patriotic media is in many ways bullshit.

And none more so than that most frequently espoused on these pages that Americans have some special or god given right or entitlement to freedom or that by some strange miracle the politicians that wrote your Constitution were in any way more virtuous than the snakes and vipers that you have currently in power. They were not.

Your Constitution was written by slavers and smugglers in an attempt to protect themselves from a British noose. It has nothing whatsoever to do with freedom as you are now discovering to your cost. That's why it is so easy for these people in the same positions of power to steal from you. Any suggestion that you have any particular rights to freedom just demonstrates a naivety seen rarely outside the US. If people like this 'got out more' they would see this...

But jolly nice try all the same...

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:10 | 1891187 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

Who cares what Harlequin meant. Everybody's a loser on the internet to a person like that.

Thank you for your service NFP. I'm jealous of the plane! I'm taking the classes but I'm not quite there yet.

It does help to get out and turn off the computer for awhile. Go out in the garden, take a week off, whatever and I do frequently. I was non-existent on ZH for about a week or two earlier this month. Just had it with the news and the market. Cashed out and felt better.

Still got my FAZ though :)

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 03:04 | 1890548 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

hey tekhneek,

It still doesn't change the fact that you need to get out more...

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:04 | 1891161 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

I've been a technology consultant for a decade and some change... it allows me to travel and travel frequently for extended periods of time...

I've been to Bulgaria, Russia, the Czech Republic, Bolivia, Colombia, Mexico, Argentina, Canada, Alaska, Michigan, Texas, Carolinas, California and the list fuckign goes on. Not all of those are work related obviously, but the $ ain't bad so whatever.

Again, I was just expressing how much; even though I've traveled the world, I still love to be in MY country.

As I said already: Get bent. I didn't ask for your unwarranted opinion of my personal life as I'm just sooo jealous of yours. With all due respect man: fuck off.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 15:13 | 1891699 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Obviously you wouldn't have written this looong list of countries unless you were trying to impress me so I will reply. It doesn't.

Far too many places in far too short a time and the fact that the list just 'fuckin' goes on' means that you're a bit part business traveller with a heavy schedule. A 'round robin' trip to a load of different countries means that you see airports and hotels, maybe a few girly bars and restaurants and little else. It's good that you've travelled the world and that you still love to be in YOUR country but personally I fail to see why you keep fucking whining about it and especially on these pages if you don't want anyone to comment on it. If you don't want an unwarranrted opinion then don't post; easy.

Like I said, you need to get out more and when you do you might just look at what you're complaining about in a different light, but well done for travelling so far and so fast, if nothing else it wins you a middle finger and if that isn't enough you can have an index as well, if only for knowing what parts of my life you're so jealous about; Tosser.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 22:22 | 1890025 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

You don't really believe you've got a flag on the moon do you?

Transformers 2 was probably more factually accurate than that old chestnut...

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:27 | 1889591 richard in norway
richard in norway's picture

god i wish i was  a baby boomer, it sounds like i really missed out

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:15 | 1889724 Rainman
Rainman's picture are now in Viet Nam

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:51 | 1889818 wisefool
wisefool's picture

You will call it by its proper name. "french indo china", you stupid tax paying american.


Thu, 11/17/2011 - 22:52 | 1890074 wisefool
wisefool's picture

I despise people who junk on this board who do not comment with the rationale. Also, when mr. timmay went to europe this summer, they made him call vietnam by its proper name "French Indo China" and they also told him he is a lousy central banker because he broke the one rule of central fractional reserve banking ......

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:29 | 1889599 gerriek
gerriek's picture

Although my birth date also categorizes me as a baby boomer I agree with what you say. The post WW2 generation had it too easy and has become the 'entitlement generation'. It reminds me of the saying: "Blessed are the young, for they shall inherit the debt. It is understandable that the younger generation is protesting in the streets.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 07:39 | 1890715 AbandonShip
AbandonShip's picture

I want to punch my dad and father-in-law every time they say "just need to work 2 more years" they are owed something.  Their houses and cars are paid off, six figue salaries and they STILL WANT MORE?!?! WTF?  The social safety net is too big.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:58 | 1889687 CBTeas
CBTeas's picture

looks like someone overdosed on bitter pills today.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:02 | 1889698 dwayne elizando
dwayne elizando's picture

Dude you must not have gotten that memo. Food stamps and unemployment benefits for everyone. Courtesy of China. Early retirement for all!

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:12 | 1889722 zen0
zen0's picture

If you actually count up the Xrs and Millenials, they outnumber the Boomers in the US by 96 million.

Put up or shut up, dudes. Get your act together and quit the bitching.

Weren't Xrs called slackers? Maybe they are the problem with getting a movement going.

Never heard of such a generation of whiners.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 21:02 | 1889813 Incubus
Incubus's picture

I'm part of Gen Y.


as in Y don't boomers go and shove their entitlements up their asses.  I'm not going to pay debts that they racked up when they had the run of the place.  The boomers encouraged such a reckless economy with their lifestyles lived off of illusory credit and living off of the backs of the lower classes and third world.

Now the ride's coming to an end, and they expect the rest of us to just say, "Aw, shucks! I guess we gotta 'cuz we hafto!" And carry them along in their retirement?  


As far as I'm concerned, let it all fall to pieces. 

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 21:56 | 1889957 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Divide and conquer.

generational division

racial division

class division

ad nauseum

There are a small group of people perpetuating this crime against society and we bicker and argue over 'oo killed 'oo.

We know who fucked all this up and it is time they face the consequences of their actions.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 22:08 | 1889989 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture


Thu, 11/17/2011 - 22:26 | 1890031 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

There are a small group of people perpetuating this crime against society and we bicker and argue over 'oo killed 'oo.

Er no, you're actually arguing over who's paying for who...

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 23:42 | 1890192 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

Incubus, you have no idea what "generation" I belong to, but I feel compelled to suggest a few words of (sincerely) friendly advice.

If you could fast-forward a decade or two or three...

You'll most likely understand that you and your peers are no different than 90% of your audience here, and age means nothing.

Human Nature has not changed, will not change, and the personality is generally set in stone by age six +/-.

Rather than shout at and implicate those who were born between XXXX and YYYY, concentrate on the Outliers -- they haven't changed either.

It's normal (for all of us) to want to clamp down on a convenient explanation, a neatly packaged enemy -- but that's more convenience than truth.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 01:23 | 1890423 Boner Jamz 03
Boner Jamz 03's picture

Exactly. Fuck those guys. I don't buy stupid bullshit and I haven't used the things I own as an Apple Subsidy Fund. I have made the right decisions and I'll be goddamned if I pay for a bunch of coddled, self-important pussies to enjoy the twilight of their vacation-lives. I drive a VW, not a Benz, because that's what I can fucking afford. Boomers all thought they had (have) the god-given right to live like gods. Well, okay, it's not my place to tell you what you can buy, but don't expect me to feel sorry for you when you lose your 750k house at age 70. Your fault, bros. Your fucking fault. Like so many boomers have said their whole lives, it's not my responsibility.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:41 | 1889794 centerline
centerline's picture

So sad that so much truth is so mixed up with so much stupidity.  Mr. Wanker - you just lumped yourself in with the same ignorant masses.  Congrats.  It takes something special to pull that off!

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:44 | 1889798 European American
European American's picture

Is a wanklord like lord of the wankers?



Thu, 11/17/2011 - 22:26 | 1890033 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture


Fri, 11/18/2011 - 11:04 | 1889811 4horse
4horse's picture

I say, Good Show, Ol'Boy, posting so much agitprop while at the same time just wanking away under such lordosis as has you grovelling on-all-fours as bottomboy to, who knows, but, a hush-hush sort of business, as long as you do

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 21:08 | 1889846 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Today, HR people have to deal with pregnancies, illnesses, family leave, and sexual harassment.  In ten years they'll have to deal with coronaries, senility, incontinence, extreme senescence, deafness, and nap times. 

(Sounds like pre-school)

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 21:15 | 1889865 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Hope & Change.  We have a bunch of morons who watch TV and are manipulated sheep.  TV is for morons who enable the facist leadership.  Oh and by the way - F Baby Boomers - particularly the ones who voted for the Muslim.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 21:21 | 1889879 JR
JR's picture

Not to be bragging on the boomers, but it was the youths and the hyphenated-voters who elected Barack Obama.

Young voters preferred Obama over John McCain by 68 percent to 30 percent — the highest share of the youth vote obtained by any candidate since exit polls began reporting results by age in 1976, according to CIRCLE, a non-partisan organization that promotes research on the political engagement of Americans between ages 15 and 25.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 21:34 | 1889899 btechtrader
btechtrader's picture

Who cares who they voted for. You think the results would be different with McCain? They would be EXACTLY the same. Voting is IRRELEVANT in this bought and paid for 1 party system.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 22:03 | 1889976 4horse
4horse's picture

divide et regere . . .


don't go for the bait, now here smeared everywhere, and, in unknown numbers, still #1 and #2, cooly calculating just who's pissedoff enough to shiton who, and then viewing all the many peons,pistons&pissants going at it while behind-the-scene, obscene, laughing

all feces theses, filthy, like running-for-government, their very own cesspool, so thoroughly polluted and disgusting that finally no even fairly-decent individual would ever think of doing it 


                                    . . . never wrestle with a pig

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 21:42 | 1889927 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

My response to Wanklord - Shut the Fuck UP!

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 22:47 | 1890069 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

A few years ago you were complaining the boomers were working too hard, holding onto all the good jobs too long, not retiring and letting your generation have a chance.

Now it is time to throw Granny under the bus. Take away her savings, her pension, everything she saved and worked for and give it to Goldman Sachs.

Piss off you little twerp. Old people are a lot smarter, and a lot meaner than you imagine. They all vote and they all vote together.

In other words, once again you are toast for reasons your tiny brain can't even imagine.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 23:25 | 1890148 Lower Class Elite
Lower Class Elite's picture

Good points.  On the other hand, my penis still works without any pharmaceutical enhancements, and you'll almost certainly die before me.  Suck on that, you narcissistic pampered fucking geezer bitches.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 07:50 | 1890719 AbandonShip
AbandonShip's picture

Boomers have been gaming the system for decades.  This shit should be declared unconstitutional.  In India they have a constitutional "intergenerational equity" clause which basically means one generation cannot run up the debt and dump it on the following generations. That's what we need.  Boomers created this mess, Boomers better clean it up. (and we're now in the 4th quarter so hurry the f--k up!)

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 22:52 | 1890075 Michael
Michael's picture

Look on the bright side. 90% of the baby boomers will be dead in 20 years.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 23:06 | 1890109 nmewn
nmewn's picture

And completey deranged, web surfing idiots believing in everything that crosses their corneas, will comprise 100% of those who will take our place.

Good luck with that ;-)

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:39 | 1889391 jdelano
jdelano's picture

Personally I take exception to one part of this post--I killed it shorting gmcr....

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:41 | 1889398 mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

Speaking of sweating, does anyone know where Corzine is?  Anyone know his address?  We should pass it along to all the "occupy" protesters around the country who get turfed from their turf and need a place to crash.  I'm sure he's got some nice digs in the Caribbean somewhere, and for sure Hawaii......

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:42 | 1889405 john39
john39's picture

bunker in patagonia.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:54 | 1889456 magpie
magpie's picture

WH guest wing ?

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:27 | 1889590 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Treasury Secretary prep school.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:55 | 1889458 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Nevis.  Next door to that guy that absconded in the 80s.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:19 | 1889734 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture let me help...Bernie Cornfeld (sp?)....

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 22:45 | 1890067 4horse
4horse's picture

+ Jacob Alexander inter alia

. . . who, 2006, was charged in the US with multiple counts of conspiracy, fraud, money laundering and making false filings, though easily fleeing the country to Namibia where he has long since been fighting. . . butterflies. unicorns. Rainbows, for his own pottagold and/or 72 virgins 

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:34 | 1889370 Poetic injustice
Poetic injustice's picture

And don't forget Medicare financial problems. You will have to survive to 80 without much of medicine.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:34 | 1889371 i love cholas
i love cholas's picture

I'll pay my tax bill with Devil Dollars

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:35 | 1889374 rambler6421
rambler6421's picture

Americans would be healthier if they actually decided to take care of themselves and ate right.  Easier said than done though.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:38 | 1889384 Poetic injustice
Poetic injustice's picture

Healthy eating will kill fitness industry (I think it should die, of course), creating more unemployment.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:53 | 1889439 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

If you knew what you were talking about it might be cool but you obviously don't...

I've been in the fitness industry for 30 years now... Wanna know something"? Statistics have NEVER changed in 30 years...

Bottom line?

- About a third of the people don't give a rats ass about health or fitness and wouldn't lift a finger if you put a gun to their head

- About a third are dutiful enough that it's become a part of their life

- About a third meander in back and forth

It never changes & has more to do with the psychology of humans & has nothing to do with healthy eating (as there is really no such thing as healthy eating anyway with most foods processed [unless you can give me an accurate breakdown of the chemical analysis of the fruit granola bar you're eating or the salad bar you just bellied up to thinking you were eating healthy])...

Frankly... the real pros in the business stopped a long time ago trying to reach out to the people who they know, historically, would not ever listen (a phenomenon not unlike the people who have their faith in Republicans, Democrats, & Central Bankers that everyone on this blog rightfully complains about)... The metaphorical "goldbugs" in this scenario (people who try to attend to their healt & physical fitness needs), NEED NO HELP... They're self motivated...

The Battleground is for the rest...

I hope that lays that argument to rest... (because it's a statistic that has existed for 30 years, or as long as I've been in the industry)...




Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:59 | 1889477 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Food is food, Mochelle lover.

Eat your own peas.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:32 | 1889607 emunah73
emunah73's picture

If you want to choose healthy lifestyle you don't need any "fitness industry". Just pair of good shoes and some weights is enough to keep you fit. As far as eating healthy - I don't consider granola bars healthy - I choose to eat food that has under 5 ingredients (ideally one), fruit and vegetables. I find it hard to understand that people think it's harder than stuffing yourself with junk food. It's not a rocket science.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:53 | 1889675 GenXer
GenXer's picture

The Fitness Industry can roll over and die. It is an artificial environment that is created for people with too much time and money (easy debt money) on their hands.

People have lost contact with their food supply. Sedentary desk jobs and an abundance of processed, nutritionally poor food, have led to an unfit and unhealthy generation of people.

The more enlightened amongst these people realise that this situation is not sustainable for their health and longevity so they join a gym (Only about 16% of the population belongs to a gym) and they make healthier choices from the abundance of crap choices that inundate them each day.

In a future situation where people are no longer sitting on the asses doing jobs in the equity, real estate or banking industry we will see a shift. As supply chains start to breakdown people will be forced to start providing some of the essentials of life for themselves.

Providing the basics of heating, food, water and shelter is actually hard work, no need to blast the guns in the gym after that sort of work. As people eat more food that is grown and produced both locally and by themselves they will move away from the processed crap that has made the nation a population of sick prescription drug takers.

Also food will be scarce so over indulging won't be an issue. These conditions will lead to a fitter and healthier person physiologically and will also kill off the fitness industry. Food shortages and rationing in WWII in the UK actually lead to the decade where general population health was at its peak.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 21:16 | 1889836 Incubus
Incubus's picture

What of the burgeoning evolutionary branch of homojunkfoodian-morlocks?  We interbreed with them?


I srsly think we'd have some kind of evolutionary divergence over thousands of years of post-industrial civilization--if we monitored for it.  No way the human species can be evolutionarily as one group when a majority of the [post]industrial world consumes garbage food and tend to their bloated waistlines.


Most people act like it's some kind of magic formula to being "healthy."  They think they're "sick" because they have to be sick.  Most of the health problems of the [post]industrial world resides in dietary habits.  We didn't survive for millions of years by eating high fructose corn syrup and modified e.coli sweetener and the tons of other shit in processed foods of modern society. 

But I'd imagine telling a person to change their eating habits is akin to telling someone to quit smoking--they know what they're doing, but they'll do it anyway.  (credit to the guy below me who said it first)


I'm sure if they can procreate with enough capacity,  these junk food eaters may become progressively--over generations--more capable of handling their diets. But really, if you look at it, how long have we been removed from an unprocessed food lifestyle?  Not even a century, at that.  We're just not biologically equipped to eat this kind of shit we're shoving down our throats.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 23:22 | 1890153 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

A voice of reason - thank you

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:50 | 1889443 toady
toady's picture

Fitness industry? Thats nothing!

What about the healthcare industry that sucks down 17% of US GDP every year? If everybody lost 10 pounds none of the healthcare CEOs would get new yachts next year!

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:58 | 1889471 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

That's probably somewhat true, but obviously somewhat unquantifiable (unless put to the test - which it would never be)...

Let's put it another way... People have known the cancer risk of cigarettes for years now... What of it?


A fitness lifestyle ain't like getting yourself into the habit of showering once a day or shitting in a toilet people... Get that through your heads and you'll start learning more about human nature than you probably care to know...


Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:38 | 1889621 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

"People have known the cancer risk of cigarettes for years now... What of it?"

Are you fucking joking?  I see people smoking so rarely nowadays that I, well, see'em.  Try watching any movie from the 40's...EVERYONE fucking smokes.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:27 | 1889756 Rainman
Rainman's picture

 been to Vegas lately ?? It's full of non-smokers. Teetotalers too.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:21 | 1889741 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

After Jim Fix died while running, I rethought this whole physical fitness deal....

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:58 | 1889830 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Same thing for Grace Kelly's brother in Philly in the 60's.  Super dude was only in his early 40s, as I recall. I only remember it because my Philly grandfather was snickering about it as he indulged in a tall one of Ballantine beer, a Phillies cigar, a shot of Schenley's and a dip of Beech Nut simultaneously. Old son of a gun died in his sleep in his 80s. Helluva guy !

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 21:27 | 1889888 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Jim Fixx had genetic issues and had been a heavy smoker.  Physical fitness has a lot of positive attributes like not letting your muscles turn to shit and also as a way to reduce stress. I am not advocating being a gym rat but there is nothing wrong with physical fitness.

Sure beats being brainwashed in front of a TV or gambling in Vegas with other "degenerate gamblers."

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:39 | 1889377 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Mick Jagger has it made, baby!


And Keith Richards, holy shiite!

Oh, Amerikans have to work after death.  Darn.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:51 | 1889450 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Hmm...I thought u were an American troll.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:01 | 1889485 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Am.  It's just that those 2 died 40 yrs ago, but still give concerts.

And nobody noticed.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:09 | 1889526 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Gary Busey also has it made.  He's just an enraged zombie at this point.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:39 | 1889626 11b40
11b40's picture

Only in your dreams will you live as much as those 2 have.....and don't forget, Jagger had a few years at the London School Of Economics before leaving to do sex, drugs and Rock & Roll full time. 

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:22 | 1889744 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Theres a lot to be said for a proper state of mind and your bodys physical health.

I'm goin the Keith Richards route too...he's like a swami or sumpin ;-)

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 21:39 | 1889918 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The Rolling Stones have not done anything new since Keith and Mick had their builder drown band founder Brian Jones.  

On a positive note - Black Sabbath are reuniting for an album and a tour.

Fri, 11/18/2011 - 14:34 | 1891815 11b40
11b40's picture

Oh Freddie, Freddie, Freddie.  You are such a comedian.

I guess you don't care for the SOME GIRLS album.  If you don't usnderstand the importance of that work, don't bother talking Rock w/me.  It might jus Start Me Up.

Black Sabbath...what a library of seminal work they will leave for us.  I do hope you enjoy their tour, though.  Tell Ozzie I said high.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:36 | 1889378 Poetic injustice
Poetic injustice's picture

Oh, and I want to see employer who will employ 80 year old firefighter or construction worker.
Or police/other physical worker.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:43 | 1889408 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Oh, and I want to see employer who will employ 80 year old firefighter or construction worker.
Or police/other physical worker.

As long as they're black or female, they're in like Flint.

If only I'd been born an African-American lesbian Jew with Tourette's and low-grade narcopepsy, man, I'd have it made.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:05 | 1889507 Bullionaire
Bullionaire's picture

I suspect you are, and are just market making.




Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:23 | 1889750 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture you are inferring that I am malingering????

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 21:27 | 1889890 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

If only I'd been born an African-American lesbian Jew with Tourette's and low-grade narcopepsy, man, I'd have it made.

What would change, though?  You'd still piss and moan all the time about how good those other folks have it.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:58 | 1889472 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Raising the retirement age busts the budget.  Here's why.  Workers experiencing health problems, or getting injured, and going on workers copmp, medical leave, extended health benefits due to mishaps etc. increases dramatically after age 65.  A "worker" collects more on medical compensation than that same person retired.  It's simple, more you save in Social Security the more you lose in other compensations.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:14 | 1889546 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

Why are we bothering talking about the retirement age in some mistical far off time, this shits getting real now, in 2 years about 80% of the population will be dead anyway .

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:36 | 1889379 q1w2reader
q1w2reader's picture

The commute from hell will be hellish


boom boom

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:41 | 1889402 Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

It can't be any worse than San Diego to LA!

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:45 | 1889416 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Yes, it's much better.  Less Spanglish speakers.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:22 | 1889743 Grinder74
Grinder74's picture

Fewer.  Or is your grammar is good as the smartest president ever?

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:36 | 1889380 magpie
magpie's picture

I'm sure vampire boy has enough Transylvanian consols to see him through eternity

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:40 | 1889393 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

My son Robot has a huge crush on Robert Pattinson.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:40 | 1889385 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

Survey respondents had saved a median of $25,000 towards retirement and estimated they’d need a median of $350,000 to support themselves in retirement.

When was this survey taken? In 1952?

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:45 | 1889419 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

Average life expectancy after retirement is about 5 years. The sell side automatic withdraw retirement savings plan pitchmen get you dreaming of champagne breakfast in the Caymens so you keep the dumb money flowing into the rigged frontrun market. Of course, this is so the people in the know can get out of Dodge before the coming $h!tstorm.


Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:51 | 1889448 Sabibaby
Sabibaby's picture

If I would've known I'd be working in the afterlife I would have quit working a long time ago...

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:33 | 1889769 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

Did you catch this bit:

About 45 percent of respondents said if they were given $5,000 they would buy a certificate of deposit, and 50 percent said they’d invest it in stocks or mutual funds.

They missed the fact that 95% of respondents were still fucking idiots who'd be shanked in the markets anyway. Can I hope that the remaining 5% said they'd stash the 5K in gold or silver?


Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:40 | 1889386 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Fortunately for me, in my 60s now, I saw this coming as far back as '91 when I discovered the Markets were rigged. Unlike so many of my contemporaries, I never suffered the illusion of "being retired". It was simply another myth put forth by the oligarchy. Can you say......vanishing pensions?

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:08 | 1889518 Bullionaire
Bullionaire's picture

Bingo.  I converted all my "savings" to PMs beginning in '06, and I was WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY behind the curve.


Good luck.



Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:42 | 1889637 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

very reasoned it out and acted accordingly.............

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:39 | 1889387 integrale
integrale's picture

We need to lower the life expectency of the 99% so retirement isn't an issue

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:08 | 1889521 Bullionaire
Bullionaire's picture

In progress.





Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:46 | 1889654 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

its called obama care....already being wired in as we speak...


as they say in brooklyn..............forgettaboutit



Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:51 | 1889819 centerline
centerline's picture

Don't even need that.  The ponzi already fried the retirement funds.  Just has to work it's way through global cash flow from accounting fraud to the ultimate realization that retirement, overall, is cooked.  Good luck to the elderly trying to get back into the workforce.  The competition is going to be fierce and the jobs you are used to will be gone.




Thu, 11/17/2011 - 22:00 | 1889965 integrale
integrale's picture

As long as our kids grow up thinking pizza is a vegetable, life expectency will fall.  Unfortunately, diabetes and heart disease are expensive to treat. Maybe we could also teach them to run with scissors. Much cheaper.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:39 | 1889388 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Francis Sawyer clearly SPAMMING here, but if you've had enough with markets for today and are on to your bread & circuses:


Denver Broncos vs. New York Jets (tonight)

Sorry for the spam :-(

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:30 | 1889764 nmewn
nmewn's picture


I'm rootin for the quaterback wearing the superman underwear...I mean really...who wants to live till their 80

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:39 | 1889389 Saro
Saro's picture

About 45 percent of respondents said if they were given $5,000 they would buy a certificate of deposit, and 50 percent said they’d invest it in stocks or mutual funds.

And the remaining 5 percent said they would just spend the $5k on hookers and blow, because at 80, do you really care that much?

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:09 | 1889527 Bullionaire
Bullionaire's picture



That, or pre-1965 silver dimes.





Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:40 | 1889392 razorthin
razorthin's picture

Fuk that.  When I'm dead I'm outa here.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:40 | 1889397 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

The Devil is always in the details.  In the US, women live about eight years longer than men.  So, the average woman will enjoy six years of retirement, while the average male..., WTF?

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:42 | 1889403 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Because married men WANT to die after they retire. I waited tables in Boca, I know.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:11 | 1889720 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture


Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:48 | 1889433 giddy
giddy's picture

Wow... just figuring that out... kudo's to your wife... takes real skill to keep 'em in the dark so long... 

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:41 | 1889399 bebopgun
bebopgun's picture

No problem--when you hit 80 just use a credit card. Won't matter at that point what balance you die with.


Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:22 | 1889579 Joeman34
Joeman34's picture

This is actually an interesting point you raise.  The great leveraging is a recent phenomenon.  What will happen when elderly people leveraged to the hilt begin to die?  No previous generation has been leveraged to the degree people are today, so I don’t believe there’s a historical example…

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:39 | 1889623 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

Government bailout for the lenders, paid by You. (Isn't that clearly the trend now?)

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:41 | 1889400 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Funny as hell!  To make the math work, however, the deceased taxpayer would need to remove himself from SS payments, Food Stamps, Unemployment Insurance, Medicaid & Medicare.

So this is what they want, your WHOLE paycheck, yeah. Fuck them.


SEE? Anybody with a spreadsheet can see for themselves that everybody else is LYING TO THEM.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:41 | 1889401 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

Great picture, I needed a laugh at the end of the day. The postmodern vampire has come so far. What a difference a century makes:

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:42 | 1889404 nasa
nasa's picture

I didn't know Serfs could retire. 

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:43 | 1889407 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

DAMN! How am I going to deal with my Silver when it will be deadly to me after I'm dead? Wait..... I think this Vampire thing has some problems.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:47 | 1889425 mynhair
mynhair's picture

You're a werewolf?

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:57 | 1889466 Sabibaby
Sabibaby's picture

Sad to say, many of the readers here at Zerohedge would never survive a vampire or werewolf apocalypse. We'd be seeing people shoot silver bullets at vampires but even more entertaining would be watching them try to drive a stake through a werewolf’s heart...

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:04 | 1889500 mynhair
mynhair's picture

But we all know to go for the head with Zombies.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:33 | 1889765 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Silver works against all sorts of unholy fiends-vampires, werewolves, bacteria, fungi, intestinal parasites, lawyers, bankers, gangrene, politicians, the NSA, keepers of the Evil Eye, etc.  Just depends on which tradition you follow.  Anyone remember Blade or Dungeons and Dragons?

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:47 | 1889808 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

We'd be trying to recover all that silver.  Sorry - didn't mean to get in your way!

OOps!  I thought you were dead!

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:26 | 1889753 Grinder74
Grinder74's picture

Ever see the documentary True Blood?  Silver is lethal to vampires.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:44 | 1889411 toady
toady's picture

Work to 80? People over 45 that get laid off cannot get a job, let alone work one!

And what about all the recent college grads? 70 to 80 year olds still in the work force over them?

It'a all statistical masterbation anyways... It's all over but the crying now...

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:48 | 1889431 mynhair
mynhair's picture

People over 45 can hardly get laid.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:51 | 1889447 giddy
giddy's picture

...particularly p u s s y's

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 19:00 | 1889479 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I can assure you 45 can get laid!

I can report back from my travels to Upper Hedonism that it is possible to overdose on sex.

Be careful my friends.

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 20:46 | 1889803 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Is 'travels to upper hedonism' the new euphemism for hiring ladyboys in Pattaya? Major Thumbs Up!!!

Thu, 11/17/2011 - 18:57 | 1889467 toady
toady's picture

Amen brother!

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