The New Retirement Normal: The Average American Must Work For Two Extra Years After Death

Tyler Durden's picture

While Italy is bickering over just how inhumane it is to raise the retirement age by 2 years in a 15 year span (which works out to a whopping 48 days per year) and will likely lead to mass riots and bloodshed in Rome before the idea is ultimately scrapped, things in America's own back yard, the country that now that the EFSF is finished will have no choice but to come to Europe's rescue via the IMF, are looking horrendous to quite horrendous. In fact when it comes to retirement, 80 is, we are sad to say, the new 65, at least according to Wells Fargo. And with average life expectancy in the US peaking at 78.1, it means that the typical American will have to work for an additional 2 years after death to pay for not only not having any retirement savings (thank you Bernanke ZIRP and VIX>30 stock market), but to make sure Europeans have theirs. You think we jest? Nope.

From Bloomberg:

Eighty is the new 65,” Joseph Ready, executive vice president of Wells Fargo Institutional Retirement & Trust, said in an interview at Bloomberg headquarters in New York before the survey was released today. “It’s a real sea change.”


About 76 percent of respondents said it’s more important to reach a specific dollar amount before retiring, compared with 20 percent who said it’s more important to retire at a given age, regardless of savings, according to the survey of adults with household incomes or assets from about $25,000 to $100,000.


About 74 percent expect to work in retirement, according to the survey, with about 39 percent working because they’ll need to and 35 percent because they want to. And 25 percent of those surveyed said they expect they’ll need to work until at least age 80 because they don’t have sufficient savings.


“People are starting to move toward understanding the different levers of what they’re going to have to do to make it in retirement,” Ready said.


About 68 percent of those surveyed said they’re not confident the stock market is a good place to invest their retirement savings. About 45 percent of respondents said if they were given $5,000 they would buy a certificate of deposit, and 50 percent said they’d invest it in stocks or mutual funds.

It's still not too late to jump on the board the Ponzient Express:

“Even though there’s a lack of confidence, I don’t know that they see there’s a good alternative,” to investing in stocks, said Laurie Nordquist, executive vice president of Wells Fargo Institutional Retirement & Trust.

Obviously prepare to work for at least 20 or so years after death if one wishes to go long Netflix and short GMCR.

As for the math: oops.

Survey respondents had saved a median of $25,000 towards retirement and estimated they’d need a median of $350,000 to support themselves in retirement. About 42 percent expect to receive a pension or already receive one.


“The numbers don’t add up,” Nordquist said. “The gap is probably larger than what they self identified.”


Those surveyed expect to withdraw about 18 percent on average from their savings each year in retirement.


“We would recommend typically 4 percent or less, in terms of withdrawals,” Nordquist said.


About 57 percent of respondents said they’re confident they’ll have saved enough for retirement.


“You used to just save blindly, but I think the blinders are coming off,” Ready said.

And the key one blinder being that if America agrees to fund the IMF's bailout of Europe, which make no mistake is coming any day now, not only will future generations of Americans be China's debt slaves in perpetuity or at least until China makes the fatal mistake it can do whatever insanity it wishes just because its currency has "reserve" status and MMT said so, but the existing one will have to find a way to work efficiently in a rather zombified condition, or else get bitten by Robert Pattinson and live forever, if with a slight bias toward SPF 100,000,000 tanning lotion.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
BaBaBouy's picture

Tyler ?


PS... Don't Sweat It Too Much, We will have a NEW FIATS in about 2 yrs.


wanklord's picture

What’s all the uproar?
It seems that most of Americans never bothered themselves to learn living within their means, save some money, plan for the future, get a decent education and avoid credit at all.

The blame must be placed specifically on the so-called Baby Boomers, a failed generation who really enjoyed the prosperity of the 50s and 60s; instead, they focused all of their deprived intellect in experimenting with all types of drugs and having very promiscuous sexual lives. These people have done nothing for this country and now they are so scared of potentially not being able to collect their government entitlements (paradoxically, they are the majority).

Therefore, America as a broken society is now paying the consequences of its own greed, lack of common sense and stupidity.

Someone said that Americans are just a bunch of stupid animals easy to manipulate and subdue. The sooner the US economy collapses the better, so the ignorant populace will finally learn NOT to live beyond their means – and stop blaming the government, since they don’t give a crap about people’s grievances.

BaBaBouy's picture

I think its only a few Bad APPLES that caused 99% of this Crisis Shit Goin Down ...

Harlequin001's picture

I've never had a pension, always managed to avoid it and so I find myself with money in gold, no employers contributions and no restrictions on when I can access my money.

Nothing in life is free, that I have always known, so when anyone tells me my employer  will pay -for free- I just head for the door, and more so if the catch is not immediately apparent. It has become clear for more than a decade now how this ends. I keep my gold and everyone else loses their pension. So who got what for free?

GoldBricker's picture

Bad Apples, eh?

So if we just get 'the right people' in there, things will get better, right?

Buy this book ($12 from Economics in One Lesson, by Hazlitt. It was written in the 1940s, when people said the same thing (debunked by Hazlitt). When did we ever get the right people in political and bureaucratic offices?

The problem is the incentives in the system. Politicians bankrupt countries because that is how you get elected. Try running for anything on a fiscal responsibility platform, promising handouts to nobody; you'll find it a short and unpleasant experience.

The root problem is credit-based money and all that it implies; all else follows from that. One thing it implies is interest (usury), the evils of which were understood by ancient Hebrews (jubilees), early Christians, ancient Greeks (see Aristotle's Politics), continuing today with Moslems.

Debt with interest is a one-way ratchet -- it has to end the way that it's ending now. The only question will be how much damage is done before the inevitable is accepted.

Joeman34's picture

"Someone said that Americans..."

You say it by cutting/pasting into every one of your lame-ass posts, jackass.  You can throw stones all you want, but sooner or later you're going to break a pane in your own glass house.  This is not a country-specific problem.  The enture world is overleveraged.  Your use of infantile rhetoric to separate yourself for the global malaise once again illustrates your ignorance. 

Again, please go away.  You offer no insight or usefulness to these threads.  As far as I'm concerned, you're on mute from now on...


MachoMan's picture

his entire post has been copied and pasted in numerous threads...  troll alert.

Joeman34's picture

Yup, just press the mute button and junk him everytime...

Hard1's picture

Afterlife credit slaves you zombie bitchez!

Gohn Galt's picture

This is everyone's problem.  If we could lock up the Leader's I am sure that people who are reasonable,  and does not need to be better or less than another person, we could do it.  If you want to be self sufficient on all counts in the current system you need invisibility and payoff money.  Our people need protection from governments, empowerment and the right to self govern, pre-approve liabilities.  Without government or other parasite intervention it is simple to set up a group and make them self sufficient.  I envision a lot of smaller communities worldwide so that everyone can be involved, care and create communities around the needs of that community. 

Big government is always a problem, even for dictators, remember the Rome's year of the four emperors.  Taking those positions in Greece and Italy seams like an inevitable death sentence.  It's always been difficult for me to understand why anybody would blindly trust any government.

wisefool's picture

Also. The current Head of the IRS is a felon according to the tax code. And Al Capone in his later years was actually a teatotaler.

You can not possibly make this stuff up.

tekhneek's picture

I like where you're going with this.

Dr. Acula's picture

>This is not a country-specific problem.  The enture world is overleveraged.

So you agree that what he said about Americans is true?


Gohn Galt's picture

Dr. Acula, I not sure if that question was for me.  However, I love the idea of America.  My father was certain that I would be able to be self sustainable, be able to learn on my own, protect myself.  Like the rugged individualist able to go out and create everything I need from scratch if necessary. 

I think that most American's and people around the world have been deceived and betrayed.  Most Americans like the hollywood lifestyle that is on television, it is fleeting.  I have had to sacrifice and mold my body and mind with my will or my fathers guiding fist.  The US has been vetting out people of old American values since I was born and now has put them on the domestic terrorist list.  The hardest part about this life is fighting for the right over and over again.  In my opinion, this heritage is the right of every American and should be for all people. 



Harlequin001's picture

What makes you think that America is in any way special in this regard?

Gohn Galt's picture

Who knows.  America is my birthplace, but I can't cook and eat breakfast without risking fines and possible imprisonment from FDA their buddy agencies.  Being on this board might be argued felonious under the new laws.  US citizens are required to file with the IRS every year, if you do not live in the US this still applies.  In order to cut the cord you have to petition a Federal Judge, if you get released (buy your freedom) you have to pay fines, paid all debts in full and prepay taxes for .  The process takes 1 - 2 years + and has been known to be a multi million dollar endeavor.

Harlequin001's picture

'America is my birthplace, but I can't cook and eat breakfast without risking fines and possible imprisonment from FDA their buddy agencies. '- That's about right, but it isn't an American phenomenon either, there are many places now where you don't even need leave your home to get fined...

Nobody For President's picture

There is often - I dare say even usually, real, intelligent discourse on this list (unlike other financial 'news' sites that will remain nameless), but alas, the Lord Wanker lives up to his name most (every) time and adds not a whit - tired old re-cycled ideas that don't particularly connect to what we are talking about.

One question I will throw out there, because I don't like the 'give-it-ups' , is whether there is any possibility of finding someone left in Congress willing to haul Uncle Ben up and suggest (cough) to  him that the taxpayers are not keen on bailing out Europe. If enough light can get shone on this dark Fed game, the fed-up taxpayers just might start hanging ropes on the Wall Street lightposts...and adding weights to keep the ropes from flopping around...

iDealMeat's picture



Yup..  super easy to subdue.  So much so that we tread wherever we choose..

Its Not like we don't have tons of bases, boots on the ground, flag on the moon, probes on Mars, or satellites outside the solar system..

You're just fucking stupid.. every time you post..


tekhneek's picture

Agreed. I might be pissed about shit in my country right now, but I'd rather be here than anywhere else. This is where I was born. This is where I was raised. This is where my family has been for generations.

I'm not going anywhere and this is equally as much MY country as it is that fuck face's and THAT pisses me off.

Harlequin001's picture

You need to get out more. It will give you a different perspective on the world...

tekhneek's picture

Ah okay.

Guy on internet website comments on my internet website comment:

You need to get out more. It will give you a different perspective on the world...

Now I get it.

Fuck off.

Lower Class Elite's picture

I'm pretty sure he wrote that while sitting in his room (in his Mom's basement) eating Cheeto's, wearing only his tighty whiteys and his favorite Yngvie Malmstein concert tee shirt.

Harlequin001's picture

So you're pretty sure eh? - Er no, it was written from an office in a house where I have lived for more than ten years which is half way round the world from where I was born.

and he/she and you really should get out more, you will understand why tossers like this have a very insular and over rated opinion of themselves...and being 'pretty sure' without any knowledge whatsoever just makes your opinion utter fucking drivel.

Get a life, I thoroughly recommend it.

Lower Class Elite's picture

Wow!  A real office?  With a desk and bookcases and shit?  That sounds ultra-badass.

Nobody For President's picture

Hey tekhneek, let me say the same thing in a completely different way: I agree with you 100% that this is my country, and I ain't going anywhere. I did 6 years and change in the Infantry once, left honorably, and have lived (off the grid) in the country for 40 years now. When I get really pissed about this stuff - too much time watching the trading screen and reading ZH on the other monitor, I take a reasonably short drive to my local airport and fire up my Piper Cub - it's an antique, like me.- and go fly low and slow over the hills and Pacific Coast of northern California. It does sooth the mind - and provides a different perspective and a reminder of just how beautiful this country can be.

This does not change the fact that Corazine is a rotten fuck that should be in jail, or any of the rest of the crud going down at the moment; but it does allow one to breath and enjoy life.

Maybe that's what Harlyquin (sp?) meant....

Harlequin001's picture

Well nobody, I thank you for a great attempt at diplomacy but I am referring to the simple fact that most Americans never leave the State they were born in, and when you do, and especially if you travel abroad for any length of time then you will very quickly realise that the crud you are spoon-fed from birth by your patriotic media is in many ways bullshit.

And none more so than that most frequently espoused on these pages that Americans have some special or god given right or entitlement to freedom or that by some strange miracle the politicians that wrote your Constitution were in any way more virtuous than the snakes and vipers that you have currently in power. They were not.

Your Constitution was written by slavers and smugglers in an attempt to protect themselves from a British noose. It has nothing whatsoever to do with freedom as you are now discovering to your cost. That's why it is so easy for these people in the same positions of power to steal from you. Any suggestion that you have any particular rights to freedom just demonstrates a naivety seen rarely outside the US. If people like this 'got out more' they would see this...

But jolly nice try all the same...

tekhneek's picture

Who cares what Harlequin meant. Everybody's a loser on the internet to a person like that.

Thank you for your service NFP. I'm jealous of the plane! I'm taking the classes but I'm not quite there yet.

It does help to get out and turn off the computer for awhile. Go out in the garden, take a week off, whatever and I do frequently. I was non-existent on ZH for about a week or two earlier this month. Just had it with the news and the market. Cashed out and felt better.

Still got my FAZ though :)

Harlequin001's picture

hey tekhneek,

It still doesn't change the fact that you need to get out more...

tekhneek's picture

I've been a technology consultant for a decade and some change... it allows me to travel and travel frequently for extended periods of time...

I've been to Bulgaria, Russia, the Czech Republic, Bolivia, Colombia, Mexico, Argentina, Canada, Alaska, Michigan, Texas, Carolinas, California and the list fuckign goes on. Not all of those are work related obviously, but the $ ain't bad so whatever.

Again, I was just expressing how much; even though I've traveled the world, I still love to be in MY country.

As I said already: Get bent. I didn't ask for your unwarranted opinion of my personal life as I'm just sooo jealous of yours. With all due respect man: fuck off.

Harlequin001's picture

Obviously you wouldn't have written this looong list of countries unless you were trying to impress me so I will reply. It doesn't.

Far too many places in far too short a time and the fact that the list just 'fuckin' goes on' means that you're a bit part business traveller with a heavy schedule. A 'round robin' trip to a load of different countries means that you see airports and hotels, maybe a few girly bars and restaurants and little else. It's good that you've travelled the world and that you still love to be in YOUR country but personally I fail to see why you keep fucking whining about it and especially on these pages if you don't want anyone to comment on it. If you don't want an unwarranrted opinion then don't post; easy.

Like I said, you need to get out more and when you do you might just look at what you're complaining about in a different light, but well done for travelling so far and so fast, if nothing else it wins you a middle finger and if that isn't enough you can have an index as well, if only for knowing what parts of my life you're so jealous about; Tosser.

Harlequin001's picture

You don't really believe you've got a flag on the moon do you?

Transformers 2 was probably more factually accurate than that old chestnut...

richard in norway's picture

god i wish i was  a baby boomer, it sounds like i really missed out

Rainman's picture are now in Viet Nam

wisefool's picture

You will call it by its proper name. "french indo china", you stupid tax paying american.


wisefool's picture

I despise people who junk on this board who do not comment with the rationale. Also, when mr. timmay went to europe this summer, they made him call vietnam by its proper name "French Indo China" and they also told him he is a lousy central banker because he broke the one rule of central fractional reserve banking ......

gerriek's picture

Although my birth date also categorizes me as a baby boomer I agree with what you say. The post WW2 generation had it too easy and has become the 'entitlement generation'. It reminds me of the saying: "Blessed are the young, for they shall inherit the debt. It is understandable that the younger generation is protesting in the streets.

AbandonShip's picture

I want to punch my dad and father-in-law every time they say "just need to work 2 more years" they are owed something.  Their houses and cars are paid off, six figue salaries and they STILL WANT MORE?!?! WTF?  The social safety net is too big.

CBTeas's picture

looks like someone overdosed on bitter pills today.

dwayne elizando's picture

Dude you must not have gotten that memo. Food stamps and unemployment benefits for everyone. Courtesy of China. Early retirement for all!

zen0's picture

If you actually count up the Xrs and Millenials, they outnumber the Boomers in the US by 96 million.

Put up or shut up, dudes. Get your act together and quit the bitching.

Weren't Xrs called slackers? Maybe they are the problem with getting a movement going.

Never heard of such a generation of whiners.

Incubus's picture

I'm part of Gen Y.


as in Y don't boomers go and shove their entitlements up their asses.  I'm not going to pay debts that they racked up when they had the run of the place.  The boomers encouraged such a reckless economy with their lifestyles lived off of illusory credit and living off of the backs of the lower classes and third world.

Now the ride's coming to an end, and they expect the rest of us to just say, "Aw, shucks! I guess we gotta 'cuz we hafto!" And carry them along in their retirement?  


As far as I'm concerned, let it all fall to pieces. 

Terminus C's picture

Divide and conquer.

generational division

racial division

class division

ad nauseum

There are a small group of people perpetuating this crime against society and we bicker and argue over 'oo killed 'oo.

We know who fucked all this up and it is time they face the consequences of their actions.

Harlequin001's picture

There are a small group of people perpetuating this crime against society and we bicker and argue over 'oo killed 'oo.

Er no, you're actually arguing over who's paying for who...

Cabreado's picture

Incubus, you have no idea what "generation" I belong to, but I feel compelled to suggest a few words of (sincerely) friendly advice.

If you could fast-forward a decade or two or three...

You'll most likely understand that you and your peers are no different than 90% of your audience here, and age means nothing.

Human Nature has not changed, will not change, and the personality is generally set in stone by age six +/-.

Rather than shout at and implicate those who were born between XXXX and YYYY, concentrate on the Outliers -- they haven't changed either.

It's normal (for all of us) to want to clamp down on a convenient explanation, a neatly packaged enemy -- but that's more convenience than truth.

Boner Jamz 03's picture

Exactly. Fuck those guys. I don't buy stupid bullshit and I haven't used the things I own as an Apple Subsidy Fund. I have made the right decisions and I'll be goddamned if I pay for a bunch of coddled, self-important pussies to enjoy the twilight of their vacation-lives. I drive a VW, not a Benz, because that's what I can fucking afford. Boomers all thought they had (have) the god-given right to live like gods. Well, okay, it's not my place to tell you what you can buy, but don't expect me to feel sorry for you when you lose your 750k house at age 70. Your fault, bros. Your fucking fault. Like so many boomers have said their whole lives, it's not my responsibility.

centerline's picture

So sad that so much truth is so mixed up with so much stupidity.  Mr. Wanker - you just lumped yourself in with the same ignorant masses.  Congrats.  It takes something special to pull that off!