The New Youth Normal - Your Parents' Basement
Recent times have been particularly hard on young adults. As we look around the world at Europe and the Middle-East, it is all too often the youth that are leading the social unrest as they again and again are the hardest hit by the global deleveraging (and admittedly most socially connected). The US is not insulated from this (though perhaps more Xanax-subdued) as youth unemployment is around 20% (with 16-19 year-olds around 25%). As Pew Research Center notes though, that fully 55% of those aged 18-24 (and 4% of 25-34 year olds) say young adults are having the toughest time in today's economy. The day-to-day realities of economic hard times are somewhat shocking for a country supposedly so far up the developed spectrum as roughly a quarter of adults aged 18 to 34 (24%) say that, due to economic conditions, they have moved back in with their parents in recent years after living on their own. In the 25 to 29 age range a shocking 34% have moved back home with mom and pop (hardly likely to help with the huge shadow housing inventory overhang we discussed yesterday) Finding a job, saving for the future, paying for college, and buying a home are seen as dramatically harder for today's young adults compared to their parent's generation while Facebook saves the day as staying in touch with friends/family is the only stand out aspect of life that is 'easier' for today's youth. As these increasingly disenfranchised young adults make some of life's biggest transitions (or not as the case seems to be), we wonder just how long it will be before Al-Jazeera is reporting on the Yankee-Spring and showing video of young hoody-wearing Americans throwing their 'Vans' at 80 inch plasma TVs; or maybe the BLS will decide to redefine basement-dwelling (or rioting) as a full-time job.
24% of 18-34 year-olds have moved back in with their parents. Somewhat notably, doesn't everyone get a job to 'pay the bills'? Also notable is the 22% who have delayed procreation - that's hardly going to help as Boomers 'drop off' leaving lower demographics behind...
BLS-provided (propagandized) Youth Unemployment Rates (Seasonally Adjusted).
Thank goodness we have Facebook or there would be nothing better than our parent's generation
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I am typing this from my dog's house
Better hope he paid the electric bill...
he ate it along with my tax bill, University degree and my bernanke poster.
I hope he at least left you with your Farrah poster...
I ate that one...
Parents' basements, with 5 friends in a shoebox apartment, on the streets and in tents in the woods, or:
Livin' In A Van Down By The RiverWhat used to be comedy for entertainment is now increasingly reality for a huge subset of people who have skills and would work productive jobs if they could find one.
And that's not funny at all. It's tragic.
The Money Masters have the pagan gods of money and power that they worship. In their means they deploy to obtain more money and power, they consider such things as necessary for the process.The economy back in the late 80's was not great, at all. But I had a $7/hour job, lived with two friends and had no problem with bills. My only bills were 1/3 of $350/month rent, 1/3 of the phone line, 1/3 of the electric, catastrophic health insurance and insurance for my POS car. No cell phone, no internet, no netfilx account, no iphone, no computer, no other money gobbling monthly services. I don't doubt things are different, but I'd like to know what has changed since then. How much would it cost to live the same lifestyle I did 25 years ago?
BTW-What's with that "taken a job just to pay the bills" category? Isn't that the idea?
I think it's more like when college grads, some with masters in actually useful areas, take waitressing jobs so that they can live a subsistence lifestyle, which also means that the longer this goes on, the less useful their degree becomes to what could have been a potential employer requiring such a degree.
my kids can move back in as long as they bring girls home for dad...tho, 29 is a bit old
I'm sure that post got you on some kind of list.
i think 18 is legal in every US state
"Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?"
ROTFL!!!
@ TruthInSunshie...
Living in a shoebox? You were lucky! Original Four Yorkshire Men Sketch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eDaSvRO9xA&feature=related
living with your parents IS NORMAL for rest of the world....and they don't even have homes but small apartments with public transit.
You do it because housing is expensive.
You do it because childcare is expensive and your grandparents can take of kids for free at home
You do it because dining out is expensive and grandma is an excellent cook.
You do it because nursing homes are expensive and your stay at home wife can take care of your parents/in laws.
Dumbass Americans are going to get what they deserve....lower standard of living. Thanks for selling out the middle class.
+5000
So you think our lifestyle was some permanent fixture? That we could just walk the economic tightrope in perpetuity and ignore basic resource constraints? I'll posit that regardless of how diligent we should have been, our fate was the same...
In my day our parents didn't even have a basement. In my day we'd live in a lean-to out in back of the garage, AND WE LIKED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In my day our parents didn't even have a lean-to. We had to live in a large flowerpot and we were delirious.
Job now pays $8/hour. Rent for a run down 2 bedroom apt is $1400/mo where I live. The health insurance probably costs 5 times more. Gas costs 3 times more. Food costs 2 times more. If you're trying to go to college, that's 5 times more.
that's pretty expensive for rent but rent is definitely not $350/month total now that house prices are about 3x what they were back then.
I'm a fan of all the parents that kick their kids off into college and expect them to make it through with a part time job because back when they were young, they did it, so you should too. Forgetting the part that a year of school was $500 and now it's $40,000 from a legitimate institution that can guarantee a job in this climate.
No degree from any institution can "guarantee" a job in his climate.
Yes, a molecular biology Ph.D. getting a degree from MIT with decent grades is going to probably land a job quite easily, but there are A LOT of newly minted Harvard MBAs and Yale JD's who are actually having trouble finding employment.
Many large New York and Chicago law firms basically put a hiring freeze on for new associates, and aren't even doing campus interviews now.
I have a client with a son who graduated last year with a law degree from the University of Virginia, which isn't Yale Law, but it's in the top 10, and he has only been able to find internship work so far, and he had fairly good grades.
Too many lawyers
Great question(s). I agree with your approach. If you cut out all the extra stuff that you're *expected* to have, life does get a bit cheaper. Kids returning home from college *should* be able to cut:
Still, the point of the article is well taken. It is a true that in some cultures (Italy, for example) it is very common for men to live at home into their 30s (60 Minutes ran a story on that about 10 years ago), but in American culture, we're expected to be out on our own (and working) by at least our early 20s.
The problem nowadays is that even if you get out of college, and you're in your early 20s, you basically have to go work at the local mall's T-Mobile kiosk . Which is fine...if you dont have your monthly bills + $60k-$80k in student debt that you also need to pay off.
Does it have indoor plumbing?
Yes. Along with granite counter tops and a pool table paid for by a 2006 HELOC loan. Who cares if Rover had no income, thats his god given right as an American to have those things.
come to California and you will see illegal aliens driving Caddillac SUVs living rent free in a home where they put in a brand new LUXURY swimming pool because their ghetto $150k home was valued at $400,000.
thank government and bankers for allowing stupids to prosper.
Hah!
Economy in basement, people in basements, dollar debased, so now everything in deebasement.
This would in part explain the rise of libertarian populism among naive spotty youths. Socially inadept, zit-faced and unemployed youths are spending an increasing amount of time surfing the internet from their parents’ houses. This tragically and inevitably introduces impressionable youths to libertarian conspiracy sites, right-wing extremist blogs and other fringe material, which naturally appeals to their sense of dissociation with civilized society. We need to reach out to these disengaged youths and encourage them to integrate into society like respectable adults, or else they will continue to rot away on these hateful blogs.
That's some good shit there, bro. A little over the top, even for you, but I laughed.
Yeah, it took me a long time to get him but you know what...his shit keeps getting better and better. I actually cried a little...
It's a little disheartening that he gets so many thumbs down on here, people don't seem to get him. He's pretty funny.
It comes from a society that doesnt want to question. It always ruins the fun.
And most prefer not to re-listen to these things for then they will know the gig is up.
My first response was to vote him down but I changed it to up (yes you can do that! Amazing!) because I get it now that he's in default /sarc mode.
MDB +1 Zit faced LOL
I hear Foxconn is hiring....
Yeah and they have dormitories to stay in and nets around the buildings in case the kids accidentally fall out the window. (thats why mom and dads basement is safe)
OH NO! THERE ARE NO BASEMENTS IN FLORIDA!!!! AAAHHH!!!
you can thank Steve Jobs and all the apple fanboys for FoxConn
btw, they actually do have jobs in Silicon Valley...
Damn stright! We need these young kids to goose step with the rest of society. We must crush all creativity and free thought. They must be assimilated into the collective. Resistance is futile.
stop wasting away on hateful blogs MDB...............lol, but yeah in all seriousness that was a funny one, i see your still at the top of your game...
MDB, I raise your bonus a little with each post.
Bravo, Braaavooo Sir!
Presumably the best way to intergrate these misfits into society would be a government job and extending them more credit cards?
Or bring back the draft... (cough, cough)
young people would prefer the draft...
draft = free international travel and not living with your parents + free college education aftwards + veteran status for life with extra points when getting a government job
today's draft = 5 years of corporate shit entry jobs to pay back student loans while "high" income doesn't qualify you for any government benefits + career burnout in your twenties + high taxes to pay for veterans in government jobs with generous pension
plus now educated women are getting "drafted" too.
Then they can owe the souls to the government store.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2tWwHOXMhI
Million Dollar Bonus, gave you an up vote for funniest post on ZH so far today. Keep it up, your stuff is better than seinfeld.
By God, sir! You hit the nail on the head!
One thing that caught my eye was "took a job just to pay the bills"... WTF is that, anyway? Do young people feel like they have the luxury to be picky about jobs? Are there really young people out there thinking, "Yeh, this job will pay the bills, but I dunno... Maybe I'll wait for something else to happen... awww, fuck, I got bills to pay, so I suppose I have to take it, though I really don't want to..."
Hammy, is that you?
I agree, someone needs to stop these kids from learning civics.
Can some of the young viewers of ZH comment on this article?
All the g-damn subsidies are pushing everything up! A few years ago my school had the nerver to charge $1500/m for a crappy dorm.
just because they have non-profit status by IRS doesn't mean they don't care about money.
All organizations want to grow the human resource pyramid and acquire financial assets to control.
Colleges are turning education into branded service for consumers where they are basically buying status that come with credentials.
They even have marketing departments now.
Hey there! I'm 23, 18 months outa college. Been reading ZH for about 2 years yet never have commented!.
This is a problem entirely true; though I would have imagined the numbers to be higher. I live at home despite not having to. Id rather build up my bullion base. The post college education I see has a huge problem. throngs of my friends couldn't get a job and are going back to ___ school (law, B, social work etc).
I think the huge problem is the allocation of resources. For my parents generation; being a lawyer, I-banker, doctor etc was the percieved SEXY occupations. They were successful etc, lots of my generation wishes to emulate the choices of their parents. there should however be a massive bear market in these types of services (save doctors, we will likely need more of those). Accordingly; not only are we over educating ourselves because of a poor economy: My generation has chosen to educate itself on matters for which there may not be a market in 20 years.
I want to yell in their collective faces "so you are basically postponing the pain and making it that much worse".
I consider this disposition and compare it to our current political debt etc... people putting off the pain despite the knowledge it will be worse later... Is it a human disposition?
I am (of course) prone to the bias of my university, I make no claims this is totally representative; simply what I have seen.
TLDR; being an engineer isn't sexy. Everyone wants to be a lawyer. Shit tons of unpaid paraleagls in 3 years, if I could short their wages;;; I would
Re: sexy occupations going forward.. Thats why I dropped out of pharmacy school. A robot can do that job.
Law school: Now THERE's a way to get rich.
You mean OWNING a Law School, right?
I think the very idea of a 'profession' and a 'job' is evaporating as we speak. Full speed ahead to pluralism and generalism, black market and 'grey market' etc.
I wish I were a publisher...that needs printing.
Listen up chief, law school has made me a debt slave!! DO NOT DO IT. I was lucky enough to get out while the economy was still ok, and get some decent experience, and I am gainfullyt employed. That being said, I have too much debt to just walk away Recent grads though, NO WAY.
The profession of law is f*cked. Firsts off, advanced AI is creating software that lets one attorney do the work of 50. Secondly, what is left is being outsourced to India.
This is how bad it is: one of my friends is a somwhat senior attorney at a large DC firm. He wanted to hire a clerk to file papers and deliver things. He was bobarded with unemployed attorneys. This is a job paying 40k (same pay I got for it in 1999, before law school!!) and is marketed towards recent college grads. His recruiting office sent him an admitted attorney, with good grades from a good school. This attorney BEGGED for the job, she couldn;t even get work doing doc review (mindless mouse clicking).
Garunteed fedgov money for loans made too many schools and too many lawyers.
Excuse me, I must puke now.
Wow. If the lawyer job market in DC is bad. Not to mention - a lot of people hate being attorneys. Some of the contract, trust and tax stuff is not that bad. The litigation and other stuff pretty much requires that you are or become a really nasty shit. The ones who make the big money are PI attorneys aka slip and fall lawyers. I know one who went to a fourth tier school and 15-20 years in they are cleaning up.
Being a dentist is another unpleasant job. You are essentially a masonist doing cement jobs inside of toilets because unless you floss really well - our mouths are filled with food residue. Yuck. My dentist had nerve damage from women's perfume. I guess patients came in all perfumed up and it was in his face for 15 + years. Weird.
lawyers = people are are basically useless (liberal arts who suck at STEM) but wanted the lifestyle and status with their English degree.
they deserve the misery they get except few in public service.
women wear perfume to dentist visits because they know that dentists make more money as small business owners than hospitalist generalist doctors. There is another profession protected by unions and credentialing.
I'm a lawyer... I can hunt, fish, garden, build computers and other electronics, assemble and disassemble firearms, do general construction and home repair/maintenance, change the oil in my own vehicles!, cook, clean, and play multiple musical instruments...
of course, in your defense, I got business degrees instead of libtard degrees... so maybe I'm weird.
I would say a damn good wrestler too! :)
With you on everything except music. Cello in 4th grade, didn't end well.
pods
I've actually dabbled in that too... I hope to get a few fights in before I'm too old.
I also got an MBA, and I have gotten every penny out of my investment. Just like MachoMan, I can do many things, and I find my education is useful for many other areas. I went to school to learn a trade, and I approached it that way (How, why, etc). Many of my peers saw it as a never ending stream of tests that needed to be taken in order to get the keys to a corporate office with a 6 figure salary waiting behind the door. At the end of the 6 years, most of them couldn't do basic stuff. Many Marketing majors didn't even know the 4 Ps of marketing. I see some of the posts on top from resent college grads, and I can see the grammar is atrocious. The way you write is how you present yourself in the business world (emails, resumes, even Facebook is been checked).
What real value did you get out of your education when you can't write? a nice piece of paper?
Twiggles
Tons of my friends -- not --> thongs of my friends (capital letter after ever period and wrong word).
Sorry friend, but I am doing you a favor. It would be easier not to say anything.
I typed that on my phone taking a dumb. comon now.
http://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ix=sea&ie=UTF-8&ion=1#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&site=webhp&source=hp&q=throng&pbx=1&oq=&aq=&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&fp=c3fe1decc135fe9e&ix=sea&ion=1&ix=sea&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=c3fe1decc135fe9e&biw=1040&bih=892&ix=sea&ion=1
.
@ xela2200. I'm not a fan of grammar Nazis but your post is begging for it.
No comma required after MBA, MachoMan, things, trade.
Misspelt recent as "resent".
"Facebook is been checked" I don't even understand what you are trying to say here.
"a nice piece of paper", "a" should be capitalised.
I'm quite happy if I have made mistakes here but I'm not the one claiming to be perfect.
Regards :O)
I was not making that claim either. I do allow others and myself some latitude because the medium that we are using is informal in nature. I am not a grammar Nazi either. However, twigles was conveying his experiences as a college graduate and what they mean in the current job market. The point that I was making is that I expect more from a college grad from his writing which, in this case, included run-on sentences, misspelling, incomplete thoughts and incorrect use of words (thongs instead of tons).
Did you actually read my post or just went on the white knight crusade out of some quixotic sense?
Let the kid fight his own battle. You already sheltered his generation enough.
:-0)
You are a walking contradiction....you chastise someone for improper grammatical structure and minor spelling errors and then when called on your own shit you 'allow others and yourself some latitude'?
Even your current post contains grammatical errors, btw.
I knew a guy who was always bitching about how he couldn't get a job with h is MBA. The other thing he liked to bitch about was capitalism. He hated capitalists, and capitalism, and was always badmouthing conservatives. I tried to talk to him once to get him to see the light, you know, "ya think there's a reason nobody wants to hire you?" Poor guy - last I checked he had some human service job in retail or something like that...
Funny you refer to dentist as doing masonry, because every time I do tile patchwork and repairs, I refer to it as dentisry work; all that cutting out the bad before putting in to good.
Make my day. Oh ya, 43 with seven years college. MBA in Finance '09. Said f it to this job market as I make a better ROI with my hands.
Living in mom's attic too. Don't laugh, got two kids to look out for and this is the best for them. I too have committed to looking out for Moms when she gets too old to care for herself. Tis like the depression days. Multi-gen households.
http:midwest-mosaic.blogspot.com
Sucks for you, I understand, but I thank all the fucking gods in the multiverse that something's reducing the number of lawyers working hard to make life more complex and unpleasant for the untrained.
my law degree is paid off, thank you Wachovia. No, I didn't borrow from them, I SHORTED THEM TO 0
That fuckin bank bought my firm then they went sunny side up. Wachovia always seemed to buy at the top. They were a bunch of crooks. Now they are Well Fargo's problem. I would have shorted them if I was allowed, but I couldn't so I shorted Merrill instead.
I went to open a commercial checking account with them, and they still make you feel like you are buying an used car.
Grammar nazi continued: you really must, stop, using commas, where they, are not required.
alright smiler, stop it now, be, nice.
.
@ TWIGGLES --
I'm about 2.3 times your age, and you're right -- being an engineer isn't sexy. I haven't been out of work yet, though. And that's been -- at least a little sexy. Sort of... :-)
Here's some Free Advice: for the world that is coming (fast) -- the closer you can get to basics the better. Consider farming, and selling organic food locally. Think of it as a moonlighting job. Are you software? Find an engineering job that lets you work remotely.
Hypnotize your friends and tell them to become farmers, miners. I wonder if a group of such people could pool their resources and start a machine shop? Hmmm....
Look for ways you can help your local community to better feed itself (with real food), keep itself warm, get its own water, etc. The growth industries of the future.
Learn how to store food: canning, curing, drying, root cellars, etc. Then, teach.
Good advice. I was speaking more to what my idiot friends think. The economic turmoil that comes from the debt unwind will provide economic opportunity for those willing to do anything.
My dad owns real estate and I grew up shoveling shit (litterally). I have no such delusions that going "up" in the world means pushing paper.
I find this meantality behind professions interesting and causes me pause; it is so similar to the ideas behind grahm and dodd investing. Perhaps the pendulum of excessive optimism in theses fields will revert back; at the excact moment my fellow 23 year olds graduate with another piece of paper... I plan to be shoveling shit; or have a shit shovelling buisiness or better yet! monopoly.
I'm 22 here, just out of college.
Of the kids in my graduating class, it's still looked down as "taboo" to move in with your parents after college (ar at the very least uncool, which might be worse in today's post-Facebook world). But the kids out of my University who don't have steady jobs are extremely out of touch with personal finance. It's almost like personal finance doesn't mean anything to them because it's more important that they show to the world (and to whatever girl they're trying to bang) that they live independently, in a cool apartment, and drive cool cars, and have lots of stuff.
I have a pretty good job, and I make it an effort to save money, save retirement, pay off credit cards, and so-on, but there are definitely people in my graduating class who don't have jobs or have low-paying jobs who are out-of-touch with their finances. For example, they want to live in the "coolest" neighborhoods, and buy cars because, as everyone is aware, you "can't survive in the city without a car" (his words not mine). Almost as if not owning a car or not living with your parents makes you less of a person? Or at the very least, is admitting that you couldn't get a good job that pays you enough money? Furthermore, they don't exactly keep a lot of cash lying around for an emergency. I can't confrim this because I haven't seen their bank account balances, but these are the people who, 3 days before pay day, will say "I can't go to the bar because I don't have money", or say things like "I always save for emergencies, I have one months rent and bills in cash just in case I lost my job". Let's be honest here, one month of cash reserves is nowhere near enough to survive if you lose your job.
Many of them tend to be pampered green house plants and I would be willing to bet no small amount of money that they're being bankrolld by their parents. I understand that they grew up in "better times" where money and credit was cheaper, and everyone and their kid had a $1500 Macbook Pro for college, and now they're trying to maintain that lifestyle, but that's supremely stupid.
Just as another example, a whole shit-ton of people from my class went on "post-graduation trips" to Europe or Asia or wherever in celebration of graduation. Which when you think about it is absolutely absurd. How can someone, out of college, even if they have a job (for sure, they aren't getting paid yet), afford to drop $1500-$2000 on a trip to Europe? It's absolutely mind-boggling. Again, being cool and having Facebook photos of themselves getting sloshed in a German bar (and for the love of God, these people go to Germany and don't drink the beer) is more important than, for example, not having $2000 in credit card debt, which I think everyone on ZH at least knows is a killer.
You should stop worrying what your peers think. To be honest, the traditional idea of finance is going to be a moot point soon, and you should focus on skills, mental preparation, community relationships, and sustainable lifestyle choices, etc. in order to survive the coming times. If you know of Dmitry Orlov, think back to the 'gift' economy – what you can do and offer are more valuable than credits in a time when the commercial economy ceases to function.
they look down on you because you are not playing the stupid game of getting into the debt trap misery. you are not wanting to be average with the dumb masses but attempting to be better than them.
nothing like telling people who used to look down on you that with all the money you saved, you paid for a house in cash with no mortgage bondage.
good things take looooooong time....but it is sweet once you achieve it.
In the "good old days" (for me, the '80s), you took a low-paying, shit entry level job that might involve typing, answering phones, or fetching coffee for the higher ups ... Not a secretarial job ... This was college grad stuff in NYC ... You did this for six months to a year, and if you displayed some aptitude and personality, a higher-up would help you make next move.
30+ years later, I'm getting college grads who want to write my marketing or strategic plans and can't be bothered to type, answer phones, and not even fetch coffee even if a pre-paid latte is in it for them. They wonder why we won't hire them.
But you are very right ... In addition to having no humility whatsoever on the career front, they expect to be able to afford a place
Iike mine and have a lifestyle like mine even though they have little to no experience and earning power. My first apartment in NYC was a shitty walk-up on one of the avenues, and the only reason I did not have a roommate was that I had a low rent. As for going to the bar, that was in part social and in part a survival tactic ... Buy cheap drinks and get free happy hour food.
So stick with what you are doing, because following the example of the lower 98% in your age group is, as always, a losing strategy. We had people like that in my days, and they ended up going back to a cheap apartment back in podunkville ... Main difference between then and now is that in addition to having no humility, they also have few values, little pride, and no shame.