This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

No Private Losses And EFSF x2

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Via Peter Tchir of TF Market Advisors,

I would like to start a mine, mine, mine, buy em, take em, mine, mine, mine, lift the offer, mine, mine, and get me some more desk at a bank

If I understand the concept correctly, I could buy sovereign debt and be "promised" that it will never default.  And if I'm a bank, I can fund that position at the ECB for almost free.  Why didn't they think of this before?

They were really doing much better when people weren't speaking.  The reality is that they cannot guarantee that private investors won't have losses.  They can come up with enough capital and programs that demonstrates a sovereign will never default, but they haven't done that, and in fact are further than ever.

So the FT is now saying that they may allow EFSF to continue to run after the ESM goes into effect with a fresh 500 billion.  Where do they plan on getting the first 440 billion, let alone the next 500 billion?  Who is going to raise that money?  Germany?  France?  I mentioned earlier that we had to pay attention to the statement that France could get two notches.  Is that another 150 billion for France?  Can the rating agencies let that go?  Doesn't anyone in power there see that France's willingness to throw money at the problem is making them part of the problem?  Someone at the rating agency, who got screamed at yesterday just threw his hands up in disgust, and said that these guys just don't get it!

Who is coming up with these ideas?  It makes no sense to me.  They need IMF, ECB, or Fed money.  Make believe stories about doubling something that is nonexistant isn't going to cut it.  Two times zero is still zero.   I think this is a very bad idea.  They don't have the cash, and guarantees won't cut it, and this may push France down to AA+ regardless of any treaty agreement.  Then EFSF is AA+.  ESM would have cash if the countries can raise it.

I really thought they were making progress, that they had a script that could work.  Now I think they have once again proven they don't understand credit, they don't understand credit market concerns, and that they are back to grasping at straws.

I didn't like the idea of IMF, ECB, and Fed money, but thought it was the direction they were heading and that it had a chance to drive the market higher.  This idea and the promise really just seems dumb to me.

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:10 | 1952261 hugovanderbubble
hugovanderbubble's picture

ITs all False

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:11 | 1952268 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

The Careless Whisper Afternoon Update And Threadjacking

 

Bigshot At U.S Trust Co. Manages $360 Billion Of Your Pensions: Don't Believe That The S&P 500 Is Down 19% For The Decade; We Figure It's Up 66%

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-06/no-lost-decade-for-s-p-500-a...

Admitted: Clinton Works For Rockefellers; Called "Expended Family" (see last 2 paragraphs)

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=47938

AG Holder Accused Of Violating "Kingpin Act" By Its Author

http://pjmedia.com/blog/gunwalker-justice-dept-violated-us-laws/?singlep...

Florida Loses 12,000 Construction Jobs In October

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/careers/ask-marcia/sfl-florida-cons...

Chinese Government; Rumor Spreaders On Internet Same As Drug Dealers (Drug Dealers Get Death Penalty In China)

http://digicha.com/index.php/2011/12/attack-creators-and-propagators-of-...

MUSIC VIDEO OF THE DAY: "It's A Liberty Walk" Miley Cyrus (Rock Mafia Remix)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovs0fpFgeqw

Liberty Nothing New To Miley Cyrus; VIDEO: "Liberty Walk" Performed Live Two Years Ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9crtkgo5vnY

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:15 | 1952291 Chris Jusset
Chris Jusset's picture

"they are back to grasping at straws."

The Eurozone is OUT OF MONEY ... they are BROKE ... so the only remedy they have remaining is grasping at straws.

 

How many more meetings will Merkel and Sarkozy have until they realize this?

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:20 | 1952326 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Many. Summits too.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:38 | 1952386 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

 

 

If a guaranteed repayment with a lot of something worth nothing on a massive loan is good, an even larger guaranteed repayment with even more of something worth nothing on an even more massive loan is better.

Give what's left of your sovereign infrastructure, sovereign rights and at least pledge what can't be given (inalienable rights) to the Money Masters, nouveau feudal serfs of the EU.

2+2=5

 

"Comrades!" he cried. "You do not imagine, I hope, that we pigs are doing this in a spirit of selfishness and privilege? Many of us actually dislike milk and apples. I dislike them myself. Our sole object in taking these things is to preserve our health. Milk and apples (this has been proved by Science, comrades) contain substances absolutely necessary to the well-being of a pig. We pigs are brainworkers. The whole management and organisation of this farm depend on us. Day and night we are watching over your welfare. It is for YOUR sake that we drink that milk and eat those apples. Do you know what would happen if we pigs failed in our duty? Jones would come back! Yes, Jones would come back! Surely, comrades," cried Squealer almost pleadingly, skipping from side to side and whisking his tail, "surely there is no one among you who wants to see Jones come back?"
Now if there was one thing that the animals were completely certain of, it was that they did not want Jones back. When it was put to them in this light, they had no more to say. The importance of keeping the pigs in good health was all too obvious. So it was agreed without further argument that the milk and the windfall apples (and also the main crop of apples when they ripened) should be reserved for the pigs alone.

They thought they were "pigs," but all along, they were just PIIGS+France+U.K. (with an official 1000% Debt to GDP ratio - unofficially much higher). The "pigs' above are members of the Red Shield Racket and their hand picked minions.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 17:05 | 1952610 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

EU and US financial sectors are now fully self-funded through global central banks (Fed in charge). They need not lend, they need not do business, only buy soveriegn debt with the money they are given

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:29 | 1952393 Hard1
Hard1's picture

European leaders are countig on some market players thinking that doubling the zero firepower of the ESFS will result in 2x0=20

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 22:52 | 1953515 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

I totally agree with you, they are broke (England is sure quiet aren't they).  But here's something to think about, why not default?  I think the US and the banks who issued and the insurance companies who insured the CDS's don't have the money.  And so the US essentially told them that if you default we won't honor it and so they are stuck.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:17 | 1952307 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Tax-exempt foundations need to be torn the fuck down.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:21 | 1952332 CPL
CPL's picture

For some reason I heard George Micheal reading news headlines....

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:13 | 1952281 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Yet we all take it seriously...

Meanwhile the collapse continues.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:12 | 1952277 yogibear
yogibear's picture

I'm seeeing Skittle pooping unicorns.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:16 | 1952284 SaMsKy
SaMsKy's picture

more revolution, then?

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:14 | 1952285 HellZero
HellZero's picture

i lend to you, you lend to me.... there... fixed

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:22 | 1952340 HellZero
HellZero's picture

in replying to my own post... i am getting very sick of being this cynical.

another interfering load of rubbish.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:24 | 1952354 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Try turning the dial on your give-a-fuck-o-meter to transitory.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:14 | 1952287 buzlightening
buzlightening's picture

Nother building anti climatic sell the news bentrod fomc 12/13. 

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:15 | 1952290 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

Re-Inflating Europe is NOT! Transitory! BITCHEZ!!

 

Looks like the collateral requirements being relaxed on the European side will cause a rush on the FED SWAP Window! at negative costs of lending!

and if it goes bad.. Europe can always Plead da FIZZZZIFF!

America can bailout da World and be stuck with shitty collateral that it cannot gain title too! because of sovereignty laws!

YAYYYYYY!

 

1. there was a vote.

2. the vote passed.

3. people are just mad because they are not in the club that voted. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5dBZDSSky0

no one likes a loser who wont shut up..

so ya'll just have a coke and smile and shut the fuck up!

 

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:30 | 1952403 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Don't ever expect me to stfu. Patrick Henry's got nothing on me homey.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:16 | 1952300 hugovanderbubble
hugovanderbubble's picture

CREDIT EVENT = ISDA CORRUPTED =ICE MARKET SHOULD BE CLOSED

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:16 | 1952302 gdgenius
gdgenius's picture

What about THREE times zero?? That's got to be worth something right??

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:17 | 1952305 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

I heard a couple of young white men talking about this when I went out for an afternoon coffee today.

Oh, no - wait. I'm mistaken. They were talking about the coming realignment of the National Hockey League.

My bad. Sorry.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:27 | 1952376 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

lulz

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:17 | 1952306 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

Looks like S&P may be breaking out.  Can we close above 1264?

 

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:30 | 1952371 spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

Sure, just need some more headlines..

More,more more.. Free, free, free.....No losses for anyone ever again....  Print, print, print..... Good Euro zone Bad euro zone.....

That should take care of it

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:18 | 1952310 Deadpool
Deadpool's picture

back it all with gold or forget it.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:23 | 1952350 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

You can't back fraud with honest money. My warm suggestion, join the other side indefinitely.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:18 | 1952315 SwimmininNawlins
SwimmininNawlins's picture

Lets just drop the idea that this money is "coming from' somewhere.  We all know this is ficticious money.  It's all a big game of make-believe.  My kids do the same thing.  I think it's normal kid behavior, not so much for the world as a whole...

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:19 | 1952320 mikmid
mikmid's picture

Give me two promises and a euro bond to go please, I'm headed for the hills and need something to keep me secure. THEY SHOULD JUST THROW IN THE TOWEL, no one believes this shit any more (except stock chasers). An orderly unwind would be too simple I guess.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:23 | 1952344 midgetrannyporn
midgetrannyporn's picture

It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 17:35 | 1952347 falak pema
falak pema's picture

"No private losses"...Sarkozy is getting this as part of deal from Merkel for the banks...wow! That will make GS cabal happy!

THE FED gives the Euro zone 500 Million more. In Exchange no haircuts of 50% for Greece defaults! 

Now this is news!...Keep the negociation wheels twirling...Merkel is making concessions.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 21:19 | 1953314 willien1derland
willien1derland's picture

Private losses were so 2008 - Losses are for the common people -

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:24 | 1952351 sosoome
Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:24 | 1952353 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Expect 2012 to be scheduled with many more Eurozone summits, my friends.    

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:29 | 1952358 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Transfer from one Euro credit card to another. Buys 6 months of deception. LOL, in 6 months another. The market and fund managers are looking for any reason to rally. Doesn't matter if they have any real substance. Every week another Euro statment of hope. Fund mangers have year-end bonuses coming up.

What a real deal, to be invited to a summit. Meet, eat well, come up with the next BS statment and schedule the next summit meeting. Sweet!

 

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:25 | 1952365 SirPlayomic
SirPlayomic's picture

Why do I get the feeling that there's a subtle propaganda from some quarters on zerohedge towards the idea that Eurobonds would be a solution? Eurobonds would make the relationship between sovereign states even more acrimonious. It might allow for some more can-kicking, but eventually it would be nothing more than a horrible disaster!

www.greedion.com

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:26 | 1952372 WTF_247
WTF_247's picture

I have said for a long time I want in on this game.  just need a foot in the secret society.

 

I will borrow 500 billion from the ECB at 0.25% interest.

 

I will then buy 500 billion of 1 year 100% risk free guaranteed sovereign bonds yielding 2 or 3% or whatever - I am not picky.

 

At the end of the year, I will pay back my loan and be $15billion richer.  Considering the bonds are 100% safe and guaranteed, they are their own collateral for the loan.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:31 | 1952406 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

No problem, Password please?

Oh and on which side of the family to do come from?

 

 

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:27 | 1952375 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

WELCOME TO EUROPEAN PROBLEM SOLVING 101!

Now Let's Solve Global Warming To!!!! => MAKE 1 BILLION FREON REFRIGIRATORS TO MAKE ICE CUBES AND THROW THEM INTO THE SEA!

 

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:29 | 1952384 butchee
butchee's picture

The whole trick is NOT to multiply by zero, but rather divide.  Problem solved!

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:33 | 1952420 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Why not?

2 X 0 = 0    yes you're right

BUT!!!!

2= 0 X 0

just don't ask how....

 

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:29 | 1952385 Arkaenun
Arkaenun's picture

EFSF 2.0

Insert fingers into market ass crack and wiggle. Don't worry about the fact that the subject is on the toilet. Everyone always walks away clean.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:29 | 1952389 ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

Hard to believe anyone takes these rumors at face value.  So far the EU has done absolutely NOTHING to stop the crisis, other than throw Greece and Ireland a few billion.  None of these austerity measures are working.  The final collapse of the Euro is going to be epic.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:34 | 1952396 hollowbody
hollowbody's picture

I think its time that the US leadership decided to follow up on those jokes about the UK being the 51st state, and forget about wasting its money and all those lives in Iran, or Pakistan, or Saudi.  A US coup in the UK (lets face it there's enough military there most of the time to make it pretty easy), and hey presto, a little real tea party time and its US President for King of England! Seize this little lot, 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FY0930P9Qc

 

and voila, even at fire-sale prices to those eager colonists who fancy a little more 'self-determination' and are prepared to buy themselves out of their slavery, US borrowing is nearly fixed....virtually painless..

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:30 | 1952397 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

Where's WallStreetPro when you need him? Green Shootz, bitchez!!

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:32 | 1952413 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

They need to stop this nonsense right now.

They should give away gold lotto tix like Japan, or Wonka.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:37 | 1952452 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

YOU WANT GOLD?! YOU CAN HAVE FREE GOLD!!!

just buy Japanese bonds....

 

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:34 | 1952431 yogibear
yogibear's picture

This is the Super Committee Euro style.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:38 | 1952460 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

 

 

Super? :)

No No No No

This is the Jackass Version ;)

 

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 17:33 | 1952738 srsly-wtf
srsly-wtf's picture

I know I know....Timmy and Obummer can make 27 new US states!  Then Benny and the Injets can swallow them like the BLOB.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:39 | 1952467 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Richard Pryor said this is the stage where everything feels heavenly, just before the freebasing vessel explodes, lighting your face on fire.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:43 | 1952491 Mark123
Mark123's picture

No matter what they do, it is not going to allow countries heavily in debt to return to their previous consumption binge.  So other than temporary confidence fueled rallies supported by the central banks and their treasury pawns, the game is over. 

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:49 | 1952515 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

I would like to start a mine, mine, mine, buy em, take em, mine, mine, mine, lift the offer, mine, mine, and get me some more desk at a bank

 

If I understand the concept correctly, I could buy sovereign debt and be "promised" that it will never default. And if I'm a bank, I can fund that position at the ECB for almost free. Why didn't they think of this before?

Peter's first two paragraphs of this article are an Instant Classic. 

So, the sick question is, "Is this a reality and therefore bullish for bank stocks?"

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:50 | 1952527 nyse
nyse's picture

"Doesn't anyone in power there see that France's willingness to throw money at the problem is making them part of the problem?"

Good point.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 17:00 | 1952583 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

And WHERE will this come from? Of course, this is annouced 2x as soon as my presentation for tonight was already sent out. Figures.

Economic Minute Presentation on the European Financial Crisis – Low GDP Growth, Staggering Debt, Geithner On The Prowl In Europe!

http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com

I smell a big bailout from The Fed and Treasury!!!

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 18:41 | 1952922 tabernac
tabernac's picture

Y'all just don't get it.  It's double!  An extra push off the cliff, like Nigel's amplifier in the movie Spinal Tap.   Nigel: "You see, most blokes will be playing at 10. You’re on 10, all the way up, all the way up...Where can you go from there? Nowhere. What we do, is if we need that extra push over the cliff...Eleven. One louder." DiBergi: "Why don’t you just make 10 louder and make 10 be the top number, and make that a little louder?" Nigel (after taking a moment to let this sink in): "These go to 11."

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 00:20 | 1953745 Stack Trace
Stack Trace's picture

How about this fix:

 

Europe takes all assets in the borders of member countries and pledges them as collateral for these funds...I do mean all, even those already pledged for other purposes. That should do the trick. /sarc off

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 00:25 | 1953757 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

So,,,

You live just to see the market driven higher....?

Higher markets mean FUCK ALL.

Get a job.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!