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Obama Takes Class Warfare To The Next Level With The "Buffet Rule" And A New "Millionaire Tax": Is A Market Selloff Imminent?

Tyler Durden's picture





 

In his increasingly desperate attempts to pander to a population that has by now entirely given up on the hope, and barely has any change left, Obama is going for broke (or technically the reverse) by setting the class warfare bar just that little bit higher. This time around, his targets are millionaires, who according to the NYT are about to see their taxes soar. Or not: nobody really knows if the proposed "Buffett Rule", affectionately known for crony communist #1, will impact just millionaires income tax, which incidentally is the same as what everyone else is paying, or, far more importantly, their Investment Income, which is where the bulk of America's wealthy income comes from. Which incidentally makes all the sense in the world: two and a half years after Bernanke has been desperately doing everything in his power to raise the "wealth effect" if only for the richest 1% of the US population, it is, from the government's perspective, time for the taxman to come knocking and demand his share of the capital gains. Yet what is lost in this ridiculous proposal are the unintended consequences, which always follow idiotic decisions arising out of central planning, number one of which would be a market crash as those who have paper gains since the market lows of 2009, scramble to lock in the old capital gains tax rate of 15% instead of holding on to paper profits that could end up being as high as 35% (or more): an event that would cut actual income by over 25% should one wait to cash out! And since 25% is substantially more than anything that Twist and QE3 and 4 could hope to achieve, it is all too conceivable that those holding on to profitable positions will have had enough, and take their profits, likely converting them into physical and non-dilutable assets along the way. As to whether they would subsequently relocate to far more hospitable countries, such as those that don't foment class warfare, and implicitly invite a civil war, that remains yet to be seen.

In the meantime, here is how Obama just made sure his already record low rating is about to plumb depths unseen since the time of Jimmy Carter, via the NYT:

President Obama on Monday will call for a new minimum tax rate for individuals making more than $1 million a year to ensure that they pay at least the same percentage of their earnings as middle-income taxpayers, according to administration officials.

 

With a special joint Congressional committee starting work to reach a bipartisan budget deal by late November, the proposal adds a new and populist feature to Mr. Obama’s effort to raise the political pressure on Republicans to agree to higher revenues from the wealthy in return for Democrats’ support of future cuts from Medicare and Medicaid. 

 

Mr. Obama, in a bit of political salesmanship, will call his proposal the “Buffett Rule,” in a reference to Warren E. Buffett, the billionaire investor who has complained repeatedly that the richest Americans generally pay a smaller share of their income in federal taxes than do middle-income workers, because investment gains are taxed at a lower rate than wages.

 

Mr. Obama will not specify a rate or other details, and it is unclear how much revenue his plan would raise. But his idea of a millionaires’ minimum tax will be prominent in the broad plan for long-term deficit reduction that he will outline at the White House on Monday.

In other words, another typical Obama ploy: let the details be ironed out in the future, but for now we just want to accentuate the class animosity. After all, it is all too obvious that those millionaires, like Buffett, who so desperately want to show their patriotism for America, are in no way aware that the Treasury has this thing called Pay.gov which allows such uber-patriots to whip out their credit cards and pay down America's record debt, in essence voluntarily doing what Obama plans to enforce for everyone else. We are certain that Mr. Buffett will promptly demonstrate to the public his receipt from precisely such a patriotic transaction.

As for the proposal, to say that it is doomed would be optimistic:

The Obama proposal has little chance of becoming law unless Republican lawmakers bend. But by focusing on the wealthiest Americans, the president is sharpening the contrast between Republicans and Democrats with a theme he can carry into his bid for re-election in 2012.

 

It could also reassure Democrats who have feared that Mr. Obama would agree to changes in programs like Medicare without forcing Republicans to compromise on taxes.

 

The administration wants such a tax to replace the alternative minimum tax, which was created decades ago to make sure the richest taxpayers with plentiful deductions and credits did not avoid income taxes, but which now hits millions of Americans who are considered upper middle class. Mr. Obama has said that many average Americans could see a tax cut if the system is overhauled, since ending many tax breaks would allow for lower rates while raising more revenues from the wealthiest.

 

The millionaires’ tax is among several changes Mr. Obama will propose in urging Congress to overhaul the federal income tax code next year, both to raise revenues for reducing deficits and to make the tax system simpler and fairer, said the administration officials, who agreed to speak in advance of the president’s announcement on the condition of anonymity.

 

The millionaires’ rate would affect only 0.3 percent of taxpayers, they said. That would be fewer than 450,000; 144 million returns were filed for 2010.

That's wonderful: in other words it is very few of the people who, mostly through years of hard work, have succeeded in breaking through the vaunted 7 digit net worth figure. But the good news is that Buffett, instead of focusing on his own share of philantropy, believes that it is his centrally planned duty to enforce his strict lack of moral code on everyone else. Too bad the other millionaires do not have the billions necessary to become one with the TBTFs and know that whatever they put their money in, Uncle Sam will never let it blow up.

If Obama wants to enact a Buffett Rule, how about instead of addressing taxes, said rule makes it clear that capitalism is coming back to replace the crony communist regime we have all grown to love and enjoy for the past 3 years, and individual failure is once again an option, instead of the socialist risk phenomenon that Buffett, more than any one individual America has grown to symbolize and represent?

Furthermore, when the $1MM cutoff fails, which it inevitably will (the rich are rich for a reason: they tend to be, for the most part, quite adept at finding loopholes), and those targeted promptly "offshore" themselves, what will Obama's next "rich" cutoff be: $500,000? $100,000? $25,000? Those on Earned Income Tax Credit? Sooner or later, you know Obama is coming for you.

Lastly, and presumably comically, considering that 41.2% of the "middle class" pays no income taxes, we wonder if this is not just a ploy by a wily Buffett, who knows the loophole in the tax code better than anyone, to make sure that nearly half of all millionaires pay... absolutely nothing.

 


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Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:09 | Link to Comment prole
prole's picture

Just send the entire bill to Buffet.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:19 | Link to Comment Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

Do you ACTUALLY think that Obama has ANYONE's interest at heart other than his own?

 

He's just faking for time.

When the clock runs out, he's gone.

And YOU are left holding the bag.

Paybacks are VERY tough.

.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:23 | Link to Comment f16hoser
f16hoser's picture

Don't you mean "....bag SUCKA?"

Could explain the sell-off on Friday. Somebody didn't wanna be long going into the weekend. All this insider shit is really pissing me off!

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:24 | Link to Comment Thomas
Thomas's picture

What income bracket qualifies us to be millionaires?

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:28 | Link to Comment Earl of Chiswick
Earl of Chiswick's picture

you can always eat at the Olive Garden

Michelle Obama Gets Darden's to Promise Healthier Kids' Meals

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:47 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Michelle is so health concious but she may have never heard that GMO causes far greater health risks than any of her other concerns.

She is just power hungry.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 23:41 | Link to Comment Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

What does a company that mines molybdenum have to do with health risks?

http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=AMEX:GMO#

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 01:57 | Link to Comment Mauibrad
Mauibrad's picture

RON PAUL, BITCHEZ! 

Ron Paul wins California GOP straw poll Sept. 17th, check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2JmIZaju6g

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 10:10 | Link to Comment SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

The repubs should pass it, but tack on a "Barbarous relic" rule whereupon all investments in PM's will be exempt from capital gains or "collectibles" taxes. This would help slow the flow of real wealth from west to east.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:15 | Link to Comment Maniac Researcher
Maniac Researcher's picture

Woo - Repubulican talking points. Gosh the originality of analysis on ZH is astounding. Really.

So what, the only difference between this and Fox is that white supremacists don't have to censor themselves? Don't let your hands get sore patting yourselves on your backs.

 

This reminds of a post I made some time ago. It seems to be more apt now:

 

...let's get back to what Zerohedge supposedly is - a site that promotes a certain type of view to a certain class of people. Fine, whatever - it's the internet. However --- the big problem is legitimacy.
You see, when people are feeling anxious and insecure, they reach for all sorts of justifications for the worldview which informs their actions. Thus, when writers like Tyler present these justifications in the guise of empiricism - when the goal really is to promote a particular view regardless of the facts, this is bullshit. And frankly, most of the time it's done pretty sloppily, as it's done here today. It becomes particularly obvious when you watch the same disingenuous behavior repeated over and over again.

Anyway, that's the problem when you're trying to present analysis. It has to actually be analytical. What we have here is simply shit talking. Luckily, this is why god invented calling bullshit.

 

Yeah.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:39 | Link to Comment Smiley
Smiley's picture

The people on ZH sound more like normal people I talk to everyday.  If this place is to blunt for your tastes you can always go to HuffPo and wrap yourself up in a nice warm rainbow from the happy land of pink fuzzy things.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:48 | Link to Comment Maniac Researcher
Maniac Researcher's picture

...while we're on the subject of overactive imaginations (and underactive analytical ability), your false equivalency/strawman belies your position far more than my comment. Thanks for providing an example to illustrate my point.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 16:37 | Link to Comment Smiley
Smiley's picture

I do hope you are helping your mother with the electric bill.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:54 | Link to Comment AssFire
AssFire's picture

There is no debate here for any social agenda, so you may have no place.

It is understood here that both Repubs and Demo parties are looting thieves.

It is understood here that America has become what everyone fled from in Europe.

I don't think you are past the victim stage if you are trying to blame ZH and Fox, I suggest you fuck off.

 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 15:58 | Link to Comment Maniac Researcher
Maniac Researcher's picture

That assertion is idiotic.

 

Top story on ZH currently:

Another Victory For Ron Paul Who Wins 44.9% In California Straw Poll To Perry's 29.3%, Bachmann's 7.7%

This article is full of Ron Paul cheerleading. I fail to see how cheerleading republicans = equating them with thieves.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 21:45 | Link to Comment prophet
prophet's picture

double dumb-ass

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 12:09 | Link to Comment Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

We caught a rare glimplse of the forum Troll, Maniac Researcher, after returning from his National Socialist Party meeting:

 

http://i51.tinypic.com/2iaylae.jpg

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 16:06 | Link to Comment Strike Back
Strike Back's picture

You use verbosity to mask an unsupported statement, being, ZH is illegitimate because it promotes a point of view without supporting facts.  Yet you fail to point to even one unsupported article.  You paint the entire ZH community as supporting white supremecism when white supremecists get ridiculed or ignored here with frequency.  Big words don't mask weak arguments.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 16:34 | Link to Comment Maniac Researcher
Maniac Researcher's picture

If you truly feel my argument is flawed, I'd be happy to email you directly each bigoted comment I read here. In fact, I'd be happy to not only send you the comments in question, but also a comparison of the number of junks between those comments criticizing said bigoted statement and the junks associated with each individual bigoted comment themselves.

I visit once per month. I'm willing to bet one visit would be enough to fill your inbox. Are you ready to back up your assertion? I doubt it.

Perhaps if you continue reading past your 37th week, you'll take a look around and...shut the fuck up. How's that for verbosity?

Of course, if you like, we can have it out right here and I can repost my years worth of responses to various homophobic, woman-bashing, racist, and generally hateful statements I have seen on Zerohedge. (and yes, I've been around a lot longer than my profile would suggest). I've saved many. I'd be happy to share.

We can go there. Me'thinks you don't have the stomach for it.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 17:23 | Link to Comment malalingua
malalingua's picture

I do.  Bring it.  I like charts.  Pretty charts with the colors of the rainbow.  So.  If you do any sort of comparison analysis please post right away. 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 21:48 | Link to Comment Strike Back
Strike Back's picture

Deafening silence.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 23:33 | Link to Comment Maniac Researcher
Maniac Researcher's picture

Did you really think I was going to jump because you clapped? Let's add deluded to this list of your less attractive characteristics. There's a button called "track" - I suggest you start there; that is until you actually publish an email address on this thread I can send examples to. I still doubt anyone here has the stones to actually do that.

Of course, by the time I get to sending you anything - the spambots will have you. Zerohedge is a cesspool of ad-droids, wannabe anarchists, incompetent hackers, and violent thugs.

And finally, did you really think I was going to spend all my time giving you and your petty friends attention? There are, in fact, other things I do besides pointing out the gaping holes in your various ideological constructions, worldviews, and conspiracy theories. As you may of noticed by the time stamps on my comments, it doesn't take me long to do and I can do it any hour of the day.

A common troll tactic is demanding they be "educated" in order to deliberately waste the time and energy of individuals making valid points they don't agree with. This isn't new or original - just as everything coming out of your pie hole is neither new or original. It's transparent.

 

Here's an excerpt from "Derailing for Dummies" -- sound familiar?

 

If You Won't Educate Me How Can I Learn Whilst seemingly simple on the surface, there is some intertwining subtext embedded within this one.

First of all, you’re placing responsibility for your education back onto the Marginalised Person™. As they are obviously engaged with these issues, and care about them, they are hopeful that Privileged People® may one day start listening and taking onboard what they have to say. By placing responsibility to educate in their hands, you tug at this yearning. You may even successfully make many question themselves and their selfish expectations that you utilise the hundreds upon hundreds of resources on the subject available to you as a Privileged Person®! After all, anyone who expects you to be able to research a topic by yourself also clearly expects you to be far more of a functioning adult than you're acting! 
By insisting you can only learn if they right then and there sacrifice further hours of time going over the same ground they have so often in the past, you may also make them give up and go away altogether, enabling you to win by default.

But further, you give the impression that you really want to learn, but they’re holding you back! That’s right, using this tactic you can suggest that full understanding is what you crave - you want to be a better, more connected and compassionate person - but it’s not your fault! Nobody ever gave you the education! And now that someone is here who is so obviously qualified, they’re denying you your Privilege® given right to have everything you want handed to you on a platter!

Which brings us to another key component of this argument - it is very important, in conversations with Marginalised People™, to constantly remind them that you are, indeed, Privileged®. By demonstrating your belief that Marginalised People™ should immediately gratify your every whim, you remind them of their place in society. After all, they’re not there to live lives free of discrimination and in happy, independent and fulfilling ways! Please! Marginalised People™ exist for your curiosity and to make you generally feel better about your place in society and don’t let them forget it!

Point one to you!

If You Cared About These Matters You'd Be Willing To Educate Me This is the natural follow-up to the above argument, although it can also be used independently.

You see, often in these discussions a Marginalised Person™ will tell you it’s not their responsibility to educate you. This is because Marginalised People™ believe that they have other priorities in life, like working and studying and being with their families for example. 

Clearly, they are labouring under a misperception - as a Privileged Person® you have far more right to their time than they do, and besides, don’t they want to make the world a better place? Isn’t that why they alerted you to the fact you were being offensive in the first place? Well, now clearly your education is their responsibility!
By placing this burden of responsibility onto them you remind them of just how daunting a task that is and how their lives are constantly being monopolised by the Privileged®, even in something that should be empowering to them, like deconstructing discrimination.

You trivialise their lives, needs, interests and obligations by suggesting they should be spending all of their time and energy in engaging with clueless Privileged People®, putting in hours and hours of effort in repeating the exact same thing they’ve already said three thousand times to three thousand other Privileged People® in their past.

And furthermore, you remind them that, if they really cared about their own issues, they’d willingly take that task on! Surely it’s a small price to pay to change people‘s minds?

Well, you want them to think that, but of course it isn’t.  After all, most of the conversations they have with Privileged People® often feel to them like beating their heads repeatedly against a brick wall embedded with rusty spikes. 

Which is entirely the point. Keep them worn out and exhausted and maybe they’ll just go away.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 00:23 | Link to Comment Strike Back
Strike Back's picture

You have posting non-responses down to an art.  You said you would post here.  Bluff called, bitch.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 18:43 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

shut the fuck up, you faggot

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 20:33 | Link to Comment New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

more fodder for the skoshi' "researcher".  Had a call from AttachWatch.com yet? ;-)

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 23:17 | Link to Comment Maniac Researcher
Maniac Researcher's picture

I think Trav provided your first example.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 12:23 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

And of course no bitch fight would be complete without the closet case Trav weighing in with drivel hate speech.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 19:14 | Link to Comment Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

While Maniac isn't going to win any friends this way, he does have a point. ZH is rife with racism, classism and sexism.

That doesn't mean that Tyler(s) support it, as far as I can tell the Tyler(s) seem to support open debate with no holds barred.

That said ZH is certainly filled to the brim with sexist, racist, classist A-holes, but that shouldn't be surpirsing given that it's an economic news site.

Suggesting that ZH is a homogenous entity is false, but denying the substantial racism, classism and sexism of the commentors is just as false if not more so. Given ZH demographics I've seen linked, I think Maniac has a valid point even if his/her rhetoric is filled with generalizations.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 23:22 | Link to Comment Maniac Researcher
Maniac Researcher's picture

I think you're mistaking "no holds barred" with excusing hate speech, which contrary to the irresponsible beliefs of the average ZHer, has real-life implications in the form of violence, disenfranchisement, and systemic discrimination.

Of course, privileged individuals who have never experienced this sometimes promote the absurd notion that just because they haven't experienced it personally, means it doesn't exist. That is a dangerously short-sighted assertion, and demonstrates a deep ignorance of both recent and distant history.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 12:15 | Link to Comment Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Asking for justice is never hate speech, IMO.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 12:31 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

It certainly is when you use words that indict or scapegoat whole classes of citizens as opposed to pointing out flaws in the logic of individuals, take the closet case Trav for example, never misses a chance to spew hate speech at gay people while asking or demanding nothing, not justice, not fairness, not even attempting to find out who or what is behind any problem, just hate for his beloved "fags."  When a poster like that is permitted to use such words with YOU not speaking up then you are just as much a part of the problem as if you soiled the boards yourself.

If you need to run down millions of other people in your pursuit of justice then it is not justice you seek, but it is a frantic search for some self esteem of your own.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 22:14 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

And then, amazingly, they got a waiver from ObamaCare.

 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 13:42 | Link to Comment espirit
espirit's picture

"144 million returns were filed for 2010 / considering that 41.2% of the "middle class" pays no income taxes"

Figuring that 40 mil are on food stamps or unemployed, probably at poverty level, and pay no tax - the gubbermint better have a plan soon to find the revenue for continued operation or the outcome sure isn't going to be pretty.

Last one out, turn off the lights.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 23:47 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

What amazes me, is that they're not even very good dictators or kings or actors or stewards or whatever they pretend to be.

They are mocked daily for their transparent idiocy and they continue on as if no one notices.

Very strange behavior for the best and brightest among us ;-)

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 23:54 | Link to Comment New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

If they are indeed smart, and the results are as we see, do you think that they might have different goals in mind than they state?

I do.

- Ned

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 00:21 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Certainly so. Their goals are not my goals.

Their goals involve a whole lot more interference with my small little insignificant doobydoo's, than I will ever tolerate.

When it gets down to WE will decide what you eat/speak & hear...and WE will decide how you raise your kids...and WE will decide capital allocations based on the debt WE impose on you...it becomes a totally different matter of what I signed up for doesn't it?

We are now closing in on a point where decisions will have to be made on the direction of the country/society. If the decision is not to my liking...well then, that leaves me with a decision to make.

In any event, it won't be helpful to those who put the impositions on me...it will be the exact opposite ;-)

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 09:48 | Link to Comment New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"sit down and eat your peas--and, oh, by the way, your sandwich has mustard on it today" ;-)

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 15:57 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Exactly, everyone makes choices every day, think, decide, and move the fuck on already.  When a system becomes bad enough, people simply stop participating, only then do you get any real changes.  Hedge accordingly (ironic I know).

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 00:05 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Pure Sociopathy in Action.
Bought Lock, Stock and Barrel by the Consumer therof.
Not liked, but still bought....

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:38 | Link to Comment X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

if you made a big cotribution to theGOP/DNC, your exempt.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 22:11 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

Comet Elenin deflection by unknown force NASA images

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O-SIHNUPIw

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 23:44 | Link to Comment jballz
jballz's picture

 

It's just a lens flare from Jupiter.

Though if there is a massive earthquake on 9/26 I will probably retract the observation...for now,it is just a fuckin lens flare. Elenin was turning back in its orbit and creates the illusion.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 00:23 | Link to Comment LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

Probably the Jews again.

Or maybe Jay Z and his space niggers on the way to Mars

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 03:24 | Link to Comment lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

Space niggas, that was Tupac's ship flar'n up.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 08:43 | Link to Comment midtowng
midtowng's picture

The sad thing about Obama's proposal is that everyone knows ahead of time that there is absolutely not chance it will pass the Republican House. Therefore this is all just pandering.

If Obama was serious about it, he would have proposed this BEFORE the 2010 election.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 09:50 | Link to Comment New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

or rammed it through during the "lame duck."

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 22:25 | Link to Comment Fake Jim Quinn
Fake Jim Quinn's picture

In NY, the wonderful government has a "millionaires tax" that kicks in at $200,000 earnings per year. Orwell had this right.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 22:34 | Link to Comment X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

orwell was right about alot of things....

1984.......bitchez

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 23:26 | Link to Comment mt paul
mt paul's picture

1984. 

 

what is...

the price of gold

next week ...

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 13:36 | Link to Comment L G Butz PhD
L G Butz PhD's picture

Yeah, but his timing was WAY off.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 23:10 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

Millionaires are just "working class" to the oligarchs at the top. Billionaires are nearing the top of "middle class".

This action by Obomba is just the expected removal of a few more rungs from the ladder to the top. The oligarchs want no competition from "upstarts" in the middle class. Obomba is just following orders from the scriptwriters.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 00:25 | Link to Comment WeekendAtBernankes
WeekendAtBernankes's picture

It baffles me that more people don't see through this idiot.  I've heard students and professors at school rail on about the top 2% and how only the democrats can save us from them.  They're all in the top 2%. 

 

People don't seem to understand that the income distribution is so skewed that what they think of as the top 2% is actually more like the top .2%.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 00:28 | Link to Comment zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

Does this affect us thousandairs?

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 09:24 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Your asking a zero-air as if I knew or cared? 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 03:42 | Link to Comment Weisbrot
Weisbrot's picture

has yet to be announced

Im guessing at $150k - $180k per couple

with exemptions between $250k - $2 mil

after all, without exemption congress will get hit with a tax hike too

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 08:46 | Link to Comment TheAntiGov
TheAntiGov's picture

Pretty soon, we'll all be millionaires, billionaires and trillionaires.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 09:47 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

One can only hope... then millionaires, billionaires, and trillionaires will finally pay something in taxes.

First husband, born wealthy, had interest income from "investments" of $164,000 for the tax year 1986, $0 tax liability.  That would still twenty five years later be four times median income, back then it was a lot of money not to be paying taxes upon.

And it was not just '86, his clever accountant got him out of most tax liability year in and year out, but even if he were to take no deductions his tax rate would be far lower than a working man because the effective tax rate on his capital gains is so much lower than earned income, add on the fact that a lot of the interest came from munis and in the end a person making minimum wage pays more than he does. 

I do not want to defend Obama, I cannot stand the guy, but even he like a broken clock gets it right twice a day (occasionally).  Still, if he really wanted this proposal to pass for nonpartisan reasons involving the health of the nation he could have simply used the right wing dream proposal of a flat 20% tax with no deductions or exemptions and without regard to source, though I would say the first 20 grand of any income should be untaxed because that is a realistic level at which one is in poverty. 

There is class warfare in the USA but so far all the wins have been on the side of the wealthy. 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 10:16 | Link to Comment Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

"There is class warfare in the USA but so far all the wins have been on the side of the wealthy."

And you can fully expect that to continue since they own the government and the corporate media.

Obama knows full well that this "tax the rich" measure will fail.  It's just more theater in his "Change!" show with no real change having ever been planned since his owners are the same as everyone else's in government. 

And this is why I can't stand left vs right BS here or anywhere else.  It's only an indication that the partisans involved are playing the pointless game those in power want them to play to distract them from the truth: YOU effectively control nothing. Why in the hell else are there so many people who say, "I don't bother to vote any more because no matter who I vote for, nothing significant changes."  Why do you think that is?  Simple.  Because both the faux left and the faux right are owned by the same moneyed interests.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 14:03 | Link to Comment Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

I agree with all the folks talking about no difference between left/right and that taxes are enshrined to prop up the FED and it's mysterious owners. That said, come on this country has been tilted towards the rich since 1776. The difference now is that many of the "rich" are now realizing that their number is up because the Middle Class and Poor have been squeezed unto a stone level, no blood left to give. If Obama, Buffet or whatever GOP clown gets in (lets not forget HW no new taxes Bush) starts taxing "the rich" it's really all about further consolidation in the top 0.01% or even higher.

I'm just saying where was the outrage and condemnation from the folks on ZH when we still had a functioning economy and government that was slowly chipping away at our freedoms? The answer? Most didn't give a shit because they felt their money put them above petty things that might happen to the middle class and poor. Now suddenly, as if by magic many who are earning 6 and 7 digits see the writing on the wall.

First they came for the poor, but fuck the poor.

Then they came for the Middle Class and I didn't give a shit, just more call girls being created.

Then they came for us lowest tier rich and well fuck, I guess we are all in the same boat now so don't uh, taxorz me man! Oh yeah fuck the man! (hopes no one notices the incredible multi-decade hypocrisy). 

Seriously, come the fuck on, many on here rail against the injustice of government (Nmewen et al) and yet support Bush/Cheney the folks who annihilated the Bill of Rights.

If you have been a long time supporter of Libertarian ideals and actively railed against things like the Drug War, Patriot Act, FED etc. I give you a pass.

But to all you whining bitches who supported Bush/Cheney and cheered on the destruction of the bill of rights thinking it was for libs and anti-war types and the ramp up from the bubble years, but magically NOW lament the power of the Central Government as it sets its sights on you as the last place left to squeeze, go fuck yourselves.

I don't support new taxes for the reasons outlined in this thread (underpins FED, used for war, anti-constitutional gov actions etc), but seriously where were you guys when the Middle Class was being raped with the repeal of the Usury laws, jacked up taxes and so forth and so on? Drinking Chrystal, and not giving a shit I would imagine.

And in closing how many of you would go RIGHT back to sleep if Rick Perry won in 2012? I ask this because a bunch of libs magically don't care about the wars since Obama won. The partisanship in this country sickens me, just not as much as the hypocrisy by both "sides" of the same pendulum cutting us all to pieces in Poe's pit.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 16:30 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

"...but fuck the poor..."

We po been gettin a but fuck'n way too long already. 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:06 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

You Left/Right fucktards just don't get it. Let me spell it out for you:

The income tax and the Federal Reserve were created in the same year. Federal income taxes are essentially the ONLY thing underpinning and compelling the use of the private currency - the Federal Reserve Note. Federal taxes are the linchpin of the monopoly of the FRN. The FRN is a fraud upon the people - all of the people, including you. The greatest scam in this country is sovereign debt, and the idea of sovereign countries having to borrow their money from private corporations. Sovereign interest is the grift, and debt-slavery of the people is the goal. 

Sovereign countries do not need to borrow money - see the United States Note - printed directly by the US Treasury for almost 100 years. Therefore, ironically, sovereign countries do not need to tax. A country could simply print the money, and if the citizens didn't like the currency, they could use other alternatives. In fact, it would be highly likely that multiple currencies would develop - allowing the people to chose their preferred medium of exchange and/or store of value. Without the need to pay Federal taxes, they would have the LIBERTY and FREEDOM to chose how to receive their pay and make payments. 

That's the way of LIBERTY. Your's is the way of SLAVERY. 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:19 | Link to Comment Blankman
Blankman's picture

Most of the people I know who made ~70k a year (or less) get back all taxes paid in plus more.  At least the smart ones who use a decent accountant, not an online service.

 

To get to the heart of your point do you really believe taxing the wealthy more will solve all the US' woes and troubles?  The whole thing is a big game and the ones in charge understand and manipulate this fact.  They get dopes lke you to believe "get them rich bastards they stole all the money from us poor fools."  Stop feeling sorry for yourself, stop watching so much damn tv and get out there and do something about your crappy life.  Make it less crappy by doing something you enjoy even if it is just for a few moments a day.  Or are you too addicted to your damned television set as it tells you all you need to think, what to eat and how to dress (oh yeah and what crappy sports team to root for).  Get off your ass and live... stop complaining and live.  

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 09:25 | Link to Comment Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture


Let me check for understanding:

 

 

Multi-millionaire Obama was in the 35% bracket last year.  Through the artifice of accountants and using the unfair, elitist tax loopholes, he paid 27%.  If he actually believe the BS above, shouldn't he have paid the entire 35%?  I mean thats his "fair share" according to current tax laws. I'm pretty sure the Obama's have some investments, so where is the leadership here?

 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 10:46 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Marginal tax bracket does not equal average tax rate paid.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 12:21 | Link to Comment whaletail
whaletail's picture

+1 [palm-to-face]

 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 09:26 | Link to Comment Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

 

Let me check for understanding:

 

 

Multi-millionaire Obama was in the 35% bracket last year.  Through the artifice of accountants and using the unfair, elitist tax loopholes, he paid 27%.  If he actually believes his BS above, shouldn't he have paid the entire 35%?  I mean thats his "fair share" according to current tax laws. I'm pretty sure the Obama's have some investments, so where is the leadership here?

 

 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 09:53 | Link to Comment New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Pretty much got it right the first time.  Wonderin' why Our Dear President doesn't lead by example.  - Ned

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 12:30 | Link to Comment Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

They are talking about marginal tax rates.  Your income ABOVE say $150k is taxed at 35%.  Your income up to $150k is taxed at 28%, your income up to 100k is taxed at 20% (for e.g.), so your avg. tax rate is closer to 27% than 35%.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:54 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

Isn't it the Obama rule? If it's a good idea the big O will put his name on it. If not some other scapegoat.

O is a tool.

If I got a 1 mil paycheck I'd cash out and retire. Fu k 'em

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:15 | Link to Comment PD Quig
PD Quig's picture

Obama isn't the problem. The problem is that America has become a profoundly unserious country, full of morons brainwashed in government schools, and full of morally vain idiots who voted for President Jugears so that they could expiate their White Guilt and feel superior.

Unfortunately, a pluraity of fucking idiots voted for this ignorant, inexperienced, petulant, affirmative action-promoted little prick who had never done anything real in his life. Never so much as ran a lemonade stand and has no idea how anything related to the economy or finance works ("profit to earnings ratio"?).

53.6% of voters were too lazy to try to learn anything about this worthless Chicago thug, so willing to swoon for a raft of his completely vapid, vacuous bullshit ("Oh, did somebody just faint? Give 'em a little room. Anybody have some water?").

We have raised a vast confederacy of fools in this country who demonstrated in 2008 just what a massive death wish they have when it comes to their country. We can--and will--boot this motherfucker out of office in 2012, but the real issue is how do we boot out the 50 million plus lame-brained losers who put the asshole in office to begin with? For the next four years, they should all have to wear dunce caps and sweatshirts that say, "I'm a rube...I voted for Obama."

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 16:50 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

I agree wholeheartedly with every single word and sentiment of your post up until you get to the booting of the 50 million who voted for him, yes, they are stupid and deserve what they get politically for their vandalism if the democratic system, people make mistakes and we have to be gracious to those that made them and repent those, it is the lame-brained that would vote for him again knowing what they did not or would not know in 08 that are the dangerous ones.  But, they are no worse than those that voted for BushCo not once but twice. 

Mind you, I am a very liberal progressive libertarian when it come to having government in our lives, government does not belong in my bedroom, it has NO business spouting religious ideals, and if it want to pay and promote such things as marriage and homeownership great as long as it pays and promotes absofucking equally to all citizens. 

But even I did not and will not vote for Barry O because I am as aghast at left wing religions as I am right.  And be sure that the support I saw even in my own family for BO last election had nothing to do with politics but in every measure met the description of religious devotion. 

And then the booting of Blow-bama out in 2012, for who?  Perry?  Bachman?  Even Paul wants to regulate the intimacy of your bedrooms and put a jackboot on your rights to life liberty and pursuit of happiness where your genitals are concerned.  It is an endless shitstorm, we can't win as citizens, every constituency has lost or at least been hurt, with one exception, the very top 1% in wealth.  Nothing that concerns the other 99 has any affect upon them or their dynastic wealth.  Chop them up, boil them, feed them to the swine.  Nothing short of that will set you free.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 23:07 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

I am more in favor of having "Sector" warfare. Private Sector vs Public Sector.

War on government employee parasites and leaches is much more palatable to me.

Lets get it on!

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 23:57 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Amazes me at how public sector view of the world refuses to accept how the math doesn't work.  Not the political or philosophical bent but the very math.  As in 1+1=2 kind of math.

A simple paradigm:  Assume 50% of the population is employed by the private sector and 50% by the public.  Take a tax rate of say, 50%.  So Joe Private makes $100 and pays $50 to the Public sector.  Joe Public is supposed to make $100 as well, but tax revenues to pay his salary alone... forget any ancillary services, infrastructure, whateverthefuck, fall short by.... $50.
Joe Public makes $100 pays $50 in taxes.  Joe Public gets $100 but the governmental entity must borrow any additional monies to pay anything but salaries.  
Whoops!
Like paying everybody welfare to do naught because there are no police cars, fire engines, ambulances, buildings, road salt, asphalt, street lights, schools, medical departments, water facilities, sewers (Unless you're Jefferson County... see that's what fucking happens!) pension fund and health care contributions, etc., etc., etc.... 

It does not work!

Go figure... the Math Does Not Fucking Work.
Either service levels or public employees Must Be Cut.
EOC
QED

The Public Sector Must Be Slashed!
Now, before harranging about who, what, why, how, where, etc.  Figure it this way....
Figure about 50% of governmental expenditures have to go bye bye.
50%

So, let's begin with "Knukles 50% Solution."
Cut the fucking spnedable governmental budgets by 50% and from there, allocate the remaining monies to what you think is needed... and it will be what is need, not Liked, Should be, Could be, Maybe.
Just Fucking Needed.
That's the only conceptual framework within which the the math begins to work!
(granted, the paradigm is over simplified, but directionally accurate, so don't start the nit picking... that's best left for noses and buits)

That's the cold hard reality of the math facing everybody.
The 2+2=4 kind of math

Go get 'em tiger.... 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 01:52 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

Here's where you had me Knukles;

So, let's begin with "Knukles 50% Solution."

You think they will just stop coming to work when their paychecks fail to clear after a few weeks?

P.S.

Look how much work he put into his post.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 02:16 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

Nothing that has been and nothing that happens in the future will ever be the same as it is now.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 02:46 | Link to Comment Goldman Hufs
Goldman Hufs's picture

But what about this trickle down theory I've been hearing from the politicians for the last 40 years?  Shouldn't we all be driving Ferrari's by now?  I thought that letting all of our manufacturing go overseas was supposed to make us all filthy rich.  I can't believe that shifting gears while we are the world's greatest super power by going all-in on an unproven theory hasn't panned out.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 08:11 | Link to Comment Bob Sacamano
Bob Sacamano's picture

We are about to find out how trickle up poverty works.  Government control of many aspects (bailouts, health ins, tens of thousands of regulations, etc) of life and redistribution is the mantra of the left.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 20:43 | Link to Comment bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

It's not rocket science.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 09:07 | Link to Comment gina distrusts gov
gina distrusts gov's picture

"But what about this trickle down theory I've been hearing from the politicians for the last 40 years?"

 

Your getting it. example you are rich and own all the beer you drink it then piss on every one else thus every one gets the beer   and the only thing that truly trickles down is the corruption  from the top  to the bottom

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 09:06 | Link to Comment gina distrusts gov
gina distrusts gov's picture

"But what about this trickle down theory I've been hearing from the politicians for the last 40 years?"

 

Your getting it. example you are rich and own all the bear you drink it then piss on every one else thus every one gets the beer   and the only thing that truly trickles down is the corruption  from the top  to the bottom

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 09:30 | Link to Comment rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

knukles

Your "cold, hard" math is knuckle-headed math.

Make enough illogical assumptions, and you can "prove" anything.

In your "example", you assume government employees  pay no tax.

If they are taxed the same as non-government, then their pay is effectively $50, and the distributive numbers in your example balance out.

You also assume all sources of non-government income are equivalent to earned wages and are taxed. That is hardly the case in real life.

There also seems to be an implicit and false assumption that only the "private" sector produces anything of worth. Thus, a "private" teacher produces, but a public teacher would not. A private security guard produces, but a public fireman or policeman does not. A Wall Street speculator produces, but a public health worker does not. That false assumption underlies the false notion that anything "taken" from the private sector and redirected to the public sector reduces worthwhile productive activity.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 17:28 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Also there is the 50% problem when of 165 million workers 2 million are in the military, and another 3 million work for the government (including 700,000 postal).  Total of 3% of working people. 

We could obviously do better with efficiency, Dept. of Education for example is of no use, it should be abolished.  Energy should be abolished and it's most prioritized functions farmed out to the most appropriate remaining government entities.  Ag seems to exist for no other reason than to dole out endless billions to mega Ag corporations, gone!  And there is a lot that is done expensively at the federal level that could be done cheaper at the local level.

But, those that say slash in half the payroll and still have a livable nation are fooling themselves.  Of the modern developed nations we have the lowest public sector employment, and sure places like Mexico, Honduras, Philipeans, and Egypt have smaller federal labor forces, but they are also corrupt shitholes no sane person would choose to live in. 

Also, unions play NO part in federal government employment, ask anyone that ever worked for government what their unions did for them (postal union excepted).  Nothing, I never even joined AFSKME because without the right to strike no union has anything to offer the workers.

Payroll makes up a small part of the budget, the current proposal for the 2012 budget includes 242 billion in federal payroll (including benefits, executive branch where 95% of employees work, congressional and judicial staff is separate), out of 3 trillion, 456 billion dollars.  That is 14% of the total budget and not even as much by half as banksters will get from the USA. 

You all with a boner for working people need to pull your heads out of your asses, most people who work anywhere are decent America loving folks and of course in every work situation there are your deadwood and slackers, everywhere.  But, we all profit from what they do even if you can't see it.  In a million little ways that seem insignificant but in reality keep this nation going.  Yes, there are too many Ebonics speaking incompetents, just as there are too many fat cracker headed fascists, but you take the good with the bad and keep in mind the overall numbers, you want to fire anyone fire the bankers that soak the taxpayers and the financial system. 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 10:09 | Link to Comment Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

I don't understand what you're complaining about.
For years american mantra was "get bigger and more efficient" if you want to survive, A&M activity is the best example of it.
American gov. is the biggest corp in N.America and they follow your citizens convictions what is better. You don't complain about Microsoft, Boeing, and hundreds of other corps sucking life out of other nations around the world, are you? They all trying to establish monopoly to fuck you much more efficient way than it was done before. So forget about your calculations and take it as it is. Any way you're used to paying much more for everything thanks to bigger is better ideology embedded in your mind.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:07 | Link to Comment Landrew
Landrew's picture

You should call it the simplton plan. So when you cut all spendng by dept. to levels they do not function, you kill all spending? Then what, you drive around the potholes at 20 mph, eat the radiation, guess where the hurricane is moving, fly by sight? You sound like someone who thinks we are a small town ha! Sorry I wouldn't live in your version of the world. The most bullets win, what a joke.

 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 03:46 | Link to Comment Weisbrot
Weisbrot's picture

 

the difference between many government employees and those on welfare

is that many of the government employees dont think they are on welfare

and those on welfare think they are employed by the government

 

 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 05:54 | Link to Comment eaglefalcon
eaglefalcon's picture

hahahahaha that's hilarious

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 09:39 | Link to Comment franzpick
franzpick's picture

Yes, and as a student of alternative physics, NASA is not much more than welfare for geeks.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 09:58 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

I am getting $3,605 a month from the government, upon which I pay no income taxes because veterans disability is not considered income, it is a replacement of something lost, just as you would not pay taxes upon a reimbursement from your insurance company if your house burns.  So, come and get me motherfucker, I am ready for pussy keyboard cowboys that think they know everything and try to incite blind violence but in reality are just jealous fucks without a clue. 

You (not just you in particular, all the Reichwingnuts who think their shit don't stink) would not last 10 days in an America without those "leeches and parasites."  We have real problems that demand real solutions, sedition is not a solution to anything and is only making things worse. 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 12:13 | Link to Comment Blankman
Blankman's picture

Per your post earlier today under Obama takes class warfare to Next level you said - "One can only hope... then millionaires, billionaires, and trillionaires will finally pay something in taxes."

 

Now you are saying you don't pay any taxes.  Care to clarify your positions.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 12:51 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

I believe I already did when I said that the disability is not considered income and thus not taxed as income, because it is a replacement for something lost.  Some of you seem to think that you get to use my service to the flag, to you, and if I am damaged or destroyed in the process you have no responsibility, too fucking bad, I should not have enlisted.  On some level I agree with you completely, I wish I had not enlisted and I urge anbody I meet thinking of it to consider what they will face if maimed while on duty.  Why should they serve people such as can be found here at ZH who just flat out up front hate all service members? 

I also want you all to recall that nobody in the military has a right to sue for damages if hurt while on duty, it is called the Feres Doctrine, it withholds the right to sue in favor of a system of disability compensation, because if people had the right to sue when hurt in the service I assure you the taxpayers would like it even less than the current system.  In my case the injury was utterly preventable had the authories in charge cared in the slightest way, that someone(s) would get hurt was almost totally predictable, not if but when, and I have no right to sue.  This has robbed me of the opportunity to earn a decent living for the rest of my life, and I really don't care if there are asswipes that do not like the situation, it is what it is. 

VA disability, if you are found disabled due to injury while on duty, is a replacement for losses, as I said before it is as if you wrecked your car, when the insurance company gives you a check because the car was totaled you are not taxed on that, it is replacement of a loss not income. 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 12:28 | Link to Comment AssFire
AssFire's picture

"So, come and get me motherfucker,"

LMAO, how about there is no more post office and we just don't send the check? Not like we need come and get you for anything..Delusional entitlement creates self worth in you case.

 

You and all others on the dole will lose. We are not responsible for promises made by our past government. There, now count on your family or a church- that is reality.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 12:54 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture
Petulant children never think they are responsible for anything no less laws enacted by government.  Neither do narcissistic assholes who have nothing better to do than sit around the house all day attacking disabled vets and black people. 

 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 12:34 | Link to Comment Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

This post is so ironic.  Guy shits where he eats.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 12:55 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Coming from you I will take that as a compliment.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 23:31 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

It's Worse Than Forecast.
Law of Unintended Consequences.

OK, here's the wealthy's deal.  Ask any acountant or asset manager.  Most of the wealthy have amazingly humongous tax loss carry forwards from 2007-2009.  Digest this.  It's a key fact. 
Big fucking tax loss carry forwards.

Propose a new higher cap gains rate (or effect thereto).  Said capital gains which are accelerated to "take advantage of the old lower 15% rate" are not only accelerated but in many cases sheltered by tax loss carry forwards.
Ergo, not (necessarily) increaased tax revenues from accelerated sales even at old lower rates! 
Said proceeds sheltered from taxes are parked for 31 days in similar but substantially enough different instruments or cash so as not to invoke the wash sale rule, subsequent to which the "old original" desired investment is repurchased.  The result is not only no Immediate Revenue to the IRS, but the now establishment of a new and higher tax cost basis!!!!!

Repeat after me.... the repurachse of the "old" investmernt 31 days later occurs at a substantially higher tax cost basis, thereby even further decreasing future revenues in spite of higer tax rates.

Net Loss of Tax Revenues
Law of Unintended Consequences.
QED   

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 01:25 | Link to Comment narnia
narnia's picture

the small equity, big leverage taxable funds may have some incentive to trigger gains.  depending on how big this is & the related hedge unwinding that goes with divesting a position may mean a solid uptick in volume.  

a good portion of the longs in the equity & debt markets are  pension funds.  they aren't affected by this change, as they defer current gains & losses & disburse what amounts to ordinary income on the back end.  

as for the real estate market, only a sea of red there for the forseeable future.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 03:22 | Link to Comment Kyron95131
Kyron95131's picture

im calling bullshit on this article and its premise 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 07:57 | Link to Comment Moneyshot20
Moneyshot20's picture

I didn't expect to see pedobear at zero hedge.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 03:23 | Link to Comment Kyron95131
Kyron95131's picture

double post

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:09 | Link to Comment lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

Frist, maybe seconal.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:12 | Link to Comment Greenlight
Greenlight's picture

I love to hear the wealthy whine about class warfare when they practice it 24/7/365.

Paybacks are hell. And btw I didn't vote for Obama.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:32 | Link to Comment jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

i did and would ask all to distinguish carefully between that which b.o. says he will do and that which he does.  hint: there is a discrepancy involved.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:48 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

He never does what he says, and never says what he does, is that what you meant?

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 07:21 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

I think its his do as I say not as I do routine that really galls everyone.

But when MSM editors think you're "sort of god" I guess you can get away with it for a little while...lol.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/06/05/newsweek_editor_evan_thomas_obama_is_sort_of_god.html

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 13:56 | Link to Comment L G Butz PhD
L G Butz PhD's picture

Some of those MSM editors found out long ago that they were wrong. It just took them a while to admit to their mistake in writing.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 09:27 | Link to Comment optimator
optimator's picture

He does exactly what he is told to do.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 22:26 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

ZH has plenty of other C S'ers who voted for the muslim.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:14 | Link to Comment Montgomery Burns
Montgomery Burns's picture

Let the so called "market" crash then. Let them pay taxes just like the working stiffs do. Don't do it cause it only affects 450,000 taxpayers? WTF kind of logic is that?

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:57 | Link to Comment Prairie Fire
Prairie Fire's picture

Fuck the working stiffs.

If you're tired of the situation you're in, change it.

Next you'll be saying 'I can't start a small business because there's no government funding for that!'

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 22:12 | Link to Comment island
island's picture

Yeah, become a grift-n-grafter, crook, thief, real estate lyin' sack of shit salesperson, sub-prime loan pusher, or a politcian.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 22:21 | Link to Comment Prairie Fire
Prairie Fire's picture

Obviously you are sipping the union beer.

How about developing a product that people need/want.

Or a service.

Once you get the hang of being an entreprenuer, it becomes addictive.

I can look at any shitty, disasterious situation and come up with a way to improve it and profit from it.

You don't have that ability because your parents told you to find a good job, keep your head down and put your time in.

 

Look how far that got you.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 22:28 | Link to Comment Farcical Aquati...
Farcical Aquatic Ceremony's picture

Being a male prostitute does not make you an entreprenuer.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 22:41 | Link to Comment Prairie Fire
Prairie Fire's picture

But it did earn your dad a reasonable income that he then used to feed, clothe and house you with.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 00:46 | Link to Comment X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

i worked for a small businessman ( a bakery), this guy, no shit, had 26 illegal immigrants working there. he said he hired them because 'they needed to make aliving like everyone else'.

yeah, that and he exploited the shit of them, work them into the ground, abused them and deny benefits to them like workmens comp if they got hurt, and unemployment.

this guy would pay minimum wage to them, not give breaks, and even threatened them with INS if they complained. he did this for 20 years.

this guy cleared 1.8 million a year.

at least he did till someone turned him in. man, he cried literally cried not for his employees, but how his standard living was going to drop. that day i called him the most greedy, stingy, money loving piece of shit i had ever met, and that i no longer require his services,you are fired. he said'whos going run the bakery, i cant'. well maybe you should hire american workers, and i left.

he was just another criminal lazy ass who didnt want to work himself.

TAKE THAT!

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 10:06 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Why X.inf.capt, I think you just summed up the whole GOP platform (but you left off the part about kill the gays in the name of Jesus who hates fags). 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 12:45 | Link to Comment Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

Amazing that idiots like you can find the internet, much less zero hedge.  Too bad you don't suffer from heart disability.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 12:57 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Again, coming from you I accept it as a compliment.  Every nazi toe rag fascist like you should hate me, then my job will be done. 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 00:46 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Prairie Fire...Prairie Fire...where have I heard that before?

Isn't that a little too obvious?

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 02:17 | Link to Comment X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

penny for your thoughts, nmewn

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 07:47 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

;-)

Prairie Fire is the short title of the long forgotten manifesto of the terrorist group Weather Underground of the sixties...written by Bill Ayers & Bernadine Dorhn.

Many believe that Dreams of My Father was ghost written by Bill Ayers for Obama.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 10:10 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Does getting a penny for your thoughts make you an entrepreneur?  If so you too may be exempt from paying income taxes. 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 14:38 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

;-)

I'm sure some would say a penny for my thoughts is way too generous.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 12:29 | Link to Comment X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

it was also an operation run by the SOG in nam'

hmmmmm.....

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 22:28 | Link to Comment Greenlight
Greenlight's picture

Sadly, not everyone in America can be a renowned genius entrepreneur like you.  So fuck them, right?

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 22:39 | Link to Comment Prairie Fire
Prairie Fire's picture

That's where you are absolutley wrong.

Anyone can be an entreprenuer. Anyone.

It takes hard work like you can't imagine--24/7 knowing that every decision you make will impact you, your family and the families of the people that work for you.

Don't take me the wrong way here, but in early 2009 I had to lay off 5 guys and it was difficult for me.

I got over it when at the end of the year I realized how much more profitable I was.

Cut the fat.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 22:49 | Link to Comment Greenlight
Greenlight's picture

Your business idea was so phenomenally successful you had to lay off 5 guys.  Wow!  That's the business story of the decade! 

 

  When is your memorial statue going up?  I want to stop by and piss on it.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 08:17 | Link to Comment Bob Sacamano
Bob Sacamano's picture

So the purpose of business is to employ as many people as possible yet make a "small profit?"  If profits are large, hire more people to spread the wealth?   Absurd.   Thought we defeated that economic system last century.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 22:50 | Link to Comment Reform1776
Reform1776's picture

Also an entrepreneur, I call BS. I would recommend it if you can, but it's clearly not for everyone.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 11:39 | Link to Comment Bob Sacamano
Bob Sacamano's picture

But those who "can't" should whine about and take from those who "can" -- actually the "can'ts" are entitled to some of the "cans" income (but no thanks for the losses).   Got it.

Lots of things are "not for" me that I force myself to do for decades -- but others can take shots at me if I succeed because they "can't" or  because it's "not for them?"

Wow.  That is our current sad state of affairs.  Let government reign.  Equal outcomes for all.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 02:10 | Link to Comment xtop23
xtop23's picture

Jesus Christ man somebody needs to stop reading Robert Kiyosaki. 

 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 06:42 | Link to Comment BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

i like the niemoller bit at the end about the taxes and coming to get you.

even though its tedious when its continually trotted out...


First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

 

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 22:45 | Link to Comment Reform1776
Reform1776's picture

You forgot get a job in a retail big box store, selling the the same shit you used to MAKE, but only pull in 1/3rd the salary you used to with no benefits. These were people paying taxes and keeping up with their mortgages, now not so much.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 22:50 | Link to Comment sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

or worse, we could become a piece of shit government worker or join a union or both

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 06:40 | Link to Comment weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

Or we could all live in your Mom's basement like you and pound out stupid shit all day.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 22:17 | Link to Comment Reform1776
Reform1776's picture

TPTB have their boots on the neck of the markets, labor and the country.

They have dissected and killed the golden goose thru globalization and offshoring every job they can as fast as they can. This goes for manufacturing jobs, union, non union and new economy jobs.

Calling everyone with no job lazy and stupid only counts for some people. We are way past that.

Can't agree with the articles characterization that it was through years of hard work these millionaires made their fortunes. Look at the facts, it was either inherited, or was gained by sitting at the helm of a ship powered by putting other peoples money and or labor at risk. Little or no skin in the game, always have it structured where they wont lose, worst case maybe just win as big.

All people should pay their fair share. If O finally is willing to bite the hand that has fed him to fix a long time issue, it is about f*ckin time.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 23:15 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

"O finally is willing to bite the hand that has fed him to fix a long time issue"

Obomba is a tame house dog ... well fed by his masters and only bites whom he is told to bite. Those who pay NO income tax are the ones funding him (well...to be strictly correct...will top up any shortfall of funding from the dumb punters).

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 08:35 | Link to Comment rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

i-dog

You are correct that Obama has NO intention of actually fixing the great disparity of wealth and power that has come to now exist. That is also probably why the previous commentator began his sentence with "If",  "If Obama ...".

The proposed IRS tax increase would be as superficial and pointless as any of his other so-called "reforms". And it has zero chance of passage anyhow.

But inasmuch as anyone is persuaded that changing a few percentages of IRS tax brackets will affect the 0.2% gilded elite, the diversion will be politically useful. Much better that for him than to address the real sources of misplaced wealth, power, and resources. Much better than to confront his handouts and entitlements to the finance cartel and finance tycoons,  the war industry and war merchants, the Homeland/Prohibition conglomerate and protection racketeers.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 23:36 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Once again the otherwise 'smart' people on ZH get sucked into the class warfare game. Everyone should pay their fair share and all that - i.e. raise someone elses taxes, even though most of you (correctly/hopefully) hate the government.

Taxes are a central-planning, re-distribution ruse. There's a winner and a loser. But the government always takes it's cut.

And you all paint the 'rich' in such a broad brush. Make a distinction people between the bankers and skimmers and the productive. And how many times has inherited wealth been taxed - once as income, perhaps as dividends, and then as an estate?

Be consistent people. If you hate taxes - then hate all/most taxes. Otherwise, you become a tool of the PTB divide-and-conquer plan.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 23:46 | Link to Comment goodrich4bk
goodrich4bk's picture

Good idea in theory, terrible idea in practice.  If the rich don't pay the cost of government, you and I will.  There is no third way.  It's them or us.  And I suspect if the rich had to pay as much as they did under Eisenhower, they'd be a little more concerned about the cost of our wars.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 00:05 | Link to Comment LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

"If the rich don't pay the cost of government, you and I will.  There is no third way."

Less government?  = = > Third Way.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 07:43 | Link to Comment rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

Less or more, small government or large, "if the rich don't pay... you and I will".

Try logically addressing the point made instead of  trying to make a superficially clever "sound-bite".

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 00:09 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

What's the cost of government? The thing about these threads is people somehow fail to make the connection between the monetary system and the political system.

Federal reserve notes are created by private banks out of thin air. Why can't US Notes be created out of thin air by the Treasury? And then why do we need taxes?

The income tax was created the same year as the Fed. You think that is a coincidence?

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 01:40 | Link to Comment Mad Cow
Mad Cow's picture

^ This

This is the answer, else, there is no going forward for Humanity. Period. Just the Master and Slave relationship, forever.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:12 | Link to Comment lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

No selloff imminent. At this point, Obama has a promising future behind him.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:13 | Link to Comment km4
km4's picture

Great post and conclusion i.e. ploy by a wily Buffett, who knows the loophole in the tax code better than anyone, to make sure that nearly half of all millionaires pay... absolutely nothing.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:14 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:15 | Link to Comment Zgangsta
Zgangsta's picture

As if this would ever pass the House?  Sounds like November 2012 posturing to me.

Why don't the Democrats just adopt a platform of "we will reduce all non-millionaire taxes to zero, and we will retroactively tax the shit out of all millionaires income from 2001"  Surely they could win 90% of the popular vote doing that?

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:40 | Link to Comment Pant Suit Skidmark
Pant Suit Skidmark's picture

That is foolspeak.

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